Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 118: Sophie Darlington

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

Sophie Darlington is a wildlife cinematographer for shows such as David Attenborough's 'Planet Earth'. She regularly gets up way before dawn in places such as Sri Lanka or East Africa, and sits for over 12 hours a day watching the animal she’s filming, often for weeks at a time. She says it’s the best job in the world but you come back 'rinsed'. When her son Louis came along 23 years ago, Sophie had to take a break from her cinematography work for several years, but she returned when Louis was 4 and a half and even took him to live with her in the Serengeti for a year, while she worked. She also has an 11 year old step daughter now, who she says is 'so cool'.She is passionate about nature, and she is worried about the effect of climate change on the natural world, having observed worrying trends over the past decades during her cinematography projects.Sophie says it takes a certain mindset to want to sit for 10 hours in 36 degree heat in a metre by metre hide, or 30 metres up a tree. She also says that when she comes back from filming she can't cross a road for a while as she's so unused to city life.  Sophie says her purpose is to 'make people give a damn'. And it's definitely worked on me.Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Yoo, hello! How you doing? I'm out in the cold.

Blimey, it's cold. It's like, um, I don't't know maybe minus two or something i know look there's loads people who live in places that get colder than that but in london it's a bit it's a bit aggressive quite frankly sorry it's a bit windy isn't it on my microphone but richard's loving that as he's uploading the pod sorry darling um anyway how are you? Sorry to be all British and talk about the weather. It's just that, yeah, it's got a bit of a sharpness to it today. I've been out and about a little bit. It's lunchtime on Friday. I started the day after the usual stuff, getting the kids ready for school.

I started the day with a dentist trip for my mid-teen. He's got braces. It's that thing where they tighten them. And I got some fun. They've given us some elastics to put on at night. I think that'll go well. And then what did I do? Oh, then I had a gym session.

My second of this new year. Yeah, it's an attempt, okay? And then I went for a doctor's appointment boring nothing to report there and then I'm now going home I'm gonna have quick lunch and then I'm gonna talk to uh I'm doing my Eurovision moment dialing in places around the world hello Germany this is the UK calling because uh still doing my bit to support my little song, Murder on the Dance Floor, which is dancing its way around the globe for a little while, which is fun. It really is fun, actually. I don't feel sick anymore. Sickness has passed.

I'm just enjoying myself, which I think is the entire point. And also trying to make sure that I kind of keep my head a little bit because I was already involved in other projects and I want to make sure that everything I'm doing, you know, the story continues. So yeah, just trying to kind of keep a clear idea of where I'm at and what I want to do. But all fun stuff, all good stuff. Lucky me, it's a really unexpected and fun way to start the new year.

And you know what it's like. life's always like twists and turns that's what it's all about anyway um podcast land so my guest this week a really fascinating moment and actually I'll tell you a funny story so I don't know if I've bored you with this already but I book all my own guests so everybody that comes in the podcast I'd say bar maybe like two or three where they've approached me and suggested themselves which I actually really like when that happens but by and large it's people where I think oh interesting I'd love to talk to them you know it could be they've had an interesting adventure in their life they could have an interesting job there might be something I just think right good conversation exists there so I was reading something and I saw about this lady who's a wildlife camera woman I thought oh I wonder what that's like if you go off and you're

filming for hours and hours just waiting for this magic moment where an animal that you're watching on a long lens camera does the thing that's you know the stuff that we end up watching from the comfort of our own home and being fascinated by the natural world but you know the people that film those things they have to sit there still patient for many hours and I wonder what the conditions are like I wondered what your mind space has to be like and I wondered what it's like if you go away for a month at a time and you've left, you know, your child behind and you're kind of slipping into your day job,

but it's in such a different environment. So yes, these were questions I had. So I approached Sophie Darlington, today's guest, and I said, oh, I'd love to speak to you. And she said to me, I just wondered, I approached her on Twitter. I found her Twitter and I just sent her a DM thing out of the blue. Yes, slid into her DMs.

So cringy for me to say that. And she said, I just wondered how you got my name. So I stumbled across it on the internet. And she said, well, that's funny because my husband does a boxing class with your husband. And I had no idea. Isn't that funny? The world went from huge to tiny all at once. So that was a happy coincidence.

Anyway, Sophie came over, and we had a brilliant chat about the environment, working within the natural world, acclimatising to that, re-acclimatising to city life when you come home again and raising a baby all throughout that and about the challenges she faced when she was getting somewhere with her career and then basically stopped it all because she had her baby

and then had to kind of find a way back in again. I mean, that's basically the big thing, isn't it, that so many potential parents grapple with. You know, when is the right time? How will this affect the things that matter to me right now? So, yes, really good conversation. I thought she was absolutely brilliant. You're in for a treat.

And I'm going to go inside because I'm basically hovering next to my front door to finish telling you about today. But basically, the essence of it is Sophie Darlington is very interesting and I think you're going to love it and oh well I've got you if you can think of any people for the next series I'm starting to book them in I've already got a couple of lovely women but if there's anybody else you think oh I would love to hear about them and more about their how motherhood's affected them how their their work works, you know, their life story, please, please give me your tips and tricks

because some of your suggestions have been absolutely brilliant and have turned into episodes, so I really value it. Mainly, thanks for lending me your ears for the next little while. Here's Sophie and Sophie. Ha-ha.

And I'll see you the other side. Thanks. Firstly, it's really lovely to meet you. And I should probably talk about the wacky nature of the fact that I reached out to you because I'd read about you online. I thought this woman sounds amazing. And then when you replied to me, firstly, very sweetly to say yes, you'd come and talk to me for the podcast, but also you said,

can I just check how you knew about me? Because my nearly husband and your husband are boxing your garden quite regularly and I had absolutely no idea that our other halves knew each other, which was really wacky, but how brilliant. It's bizarre and fantastic. Yeah, I love it.

I love it. And it was like, no, nothing to do with them nothing to do with them perfect no all about you whatever with their boxing yeah yeah but um how are you at the moment because you've just come back from location is that right in Kenya yeah so tell me a little bit about what you were doing there so I'm a wildlife cinematographer, so I was following, and here's the really strange thing is that we work for many years on loads of things and we're not allowed to talk about anything

until they're out and they take three years. So the project I'm working on now is coming out in 2026. Fabulous. But I can say I was in Kenya and I was filming and it's brilliant. It's going to be really brilliant. But it means getting up at dawn. Actually, that's a complete fabrication.

It means getting up way before dawn, getting out there for dawn, which is the best part of the day, luckily, and then trying to find your star or your critter and then sitting with them for the day until the light goes. And so you spend over 12 hours a day hopefully sitting with your subject and it could be a lion a cheetah an elephant whatever it might be in kenya you're gonna have to wait until 2026 to find out um but yes so you um i've been out doing that for a month and you don't i don't do days off when i'm out on location so it's it's fantastic it is the best job in the world I'm very very lucky to do it it's also slightly odd because

you come back rinsed and you kind of fall over I imagine like you do when you're on tour well yes and no I think with tour there's a little bit more different gears used I'd imagine with you when you go away it's a bit more kind of all in everything all encompassing and if you're doing long long long days like that that's all of your brain space dedicated to that thing so why did we move it to a conversation we could talk about what was what's the last animal you're working with that you can talk to me about I can talk to you about so many animals so there's something coming out um uh planet earth three is coming out and I was in Sri Lanka and I was um getting up every morning pre pre-dawn to sit in a hide to try and film an animal nailing another animal that's a dreadful description

I've got to take it. It's an awful thing. That's what we do. We film sex, death, and, you know, behaviour. Rock and roll. Yes. Well, we listen to rock and roll. Last year, I worked in Antarctica. Okay.

So that meant I flew to the Falklands and then got a sailboat, a 24-metre sailboat, and we went across the Drake's Passage. There was two other camera people, various dive assistants, because one of the camera people was diving with leopard seals, drones, and then the captain of the boat and the cook and me as the only woman, which is quite standard in my line of work. I was going to say, I but that's not an unusual dynamic.

Yeah, we need to shake that up a bit. We're working on that. We're working on that. And that meant it took us somehow, I think it was like 11 days to get there. Wow. And going across the Drake's Passage, which is famously the most turbulent passage of sea in the world, in a really small boat where you literally literally at times you look out the window

and your window is underwater it's under the ocean and I'm a little bit like when I was a kid I grew up with an Irish wolfhound and on a boat I'm a bit like Irish wolfhound was on a boat my feet sort of splay and I'm not particularly comfortable I'd much rather be on dry land. But then you get to the Antarctic Peninsula and you stop and land in these incredible locations and hang out with penguins for, you know, with gentoo penguins on this occasion for three, four weeks every day. And then you get on a boat and then you come home again. It's a very hard life, really, when you think about it.

Well, it's definitely not typical. But then I guess when you're working in it, then you're rubbing alongside people where that's also the thing they do. So there must be so much shorthand of how your job runs. And passion, huge passion. I think everyone that I work with loves what they do. And that's why we want to kind of go to the ends of the earth to kind of bring back these images that hopefully if we're doing our job right that make them feel the way we feel when we're filming them so if we're getting people

to kind of go all right I give a stuff about this penguin this lion this whatever it might be then we're winning that's the point of it I think yes telling the story yeah but I suppose also I'm imagining when I watch something at home what I'm seeing is not just hours but months and months accumulating this very special special footage yeah to give me an insight into the life of that animal yeah and the environment and the landscape to really take you there. Yeah. But leave out all the bits where nothing much is going on. Most of the bits where nothing much is going on.

Yeah, exactly, the days and hours or the trips where you go and you come back empty-handed because the behaviour hasn't happened. Or the weather hasn't been in your favour. Which happens more and more now. Yeah. Or you come back with something brilliant that you hadn't anticipated that's even better and you film something that nobody's ever seen before and you're like yeah check that out I mean that's amazing and so when you're filming how how many other humans are around you um it depends if I'm working from a car I work with um

I have a real privilege of working with a guy called Sammy Munene, who's a Kenyan specialist wildlife film driver. And I spent more time with him than I would say with my family because we just sit there in a car next to each other, usually waiting for a lion to wake up or a cheetah. And it's just the two of us. So where he's, we have this really, because we've worked together for years,

so we've got this really lovely kind of shorthand. And his trust is, he'll put me in the right position and he trusts me to get it. But he'll talk to me the whole time because when you're looking, I work with lenses. So I'm a long lens specialist. And that means I'm usually on the sort of a thousand millimetre end of a lens,

which is sort of 20 times closer than you would normally see things. So I can be looking at a lion's eyeball and be completely unaware that there's an elephant doing a tango three inches to the left. You know, it's, so he's the guy who goes so left a bit. Tango. Yeah. So there's a huge amount of trust and and usually in Antarctica I was by myself I would sort of like slip around in muds and mud and welly boots you know moving

with all the penguins it felt like they were laughing I'm not sure if they were but it really felt like it um yeah so it's usually me if I'm on foot with an assistant, if I'm not on foot just with someone more often than not, a local guide, someone with incredible knowledge that I'm able to tap into. the balance between chatting to that person and making the time pass but also keeping alert so that you can actually be there to get your job you know done um which might must make your brain feel like it's in a weird sort of uh i picture a bit like when you're um in transit and you kind of put yourself almost on the standby mode so So you're sort of there, but you've like almost turned down a lot of your other senses and thought processes so that you can just exist in that space and not busy yourself with all the other things that can make you distracted or up and down. I love that. That's so true. No, that's really true. You're kind of, you're, there's an incredible liberation to being so focused on one thing and

so entirely you're looking at that elephant you're trying to work out what that elephant might do what's going on how you can interpret it that absolutely everything else gets put on hold and there's a real as someone who comes home and i'm a bit of a, not control freak, but I like to know how, you know, I like my things done in a certain way. And you have to give up complete control to this animal because they're dictating your day and your world and the weather. You have no control over anything. And that's an amazing place to be and to have that focus and concentration. It's a real luxury in that.

And then you come home and you like okay now life yeah but then as well for you i guess there's this juxtaposition of when you describe what you do someone like me it might as well be like saying you do like expeditions on another planet and yet what you're actually documenting is the wealth and breadth of everything that is going on on the planet we share with all of those creatures and animals. But most of us can just sort of switch off and just be dealing with the sort of 360 of city life or whatever, you know, how most of us live. But actually that's all going on right now. All those things you've documented are all happening simultaneously. But also in the park, not just on the continent of Africa or in Antarctica or Alaska.

It's happening in the garden. It's happening. It's right here and now. Chris Packham, who I worship, I think he's incredible, worships a bit strong, but I think he's a cool, I think he's a cool, principled human. I think it's cool to pay a taste for him. And I was, yesterday, I was watching him talk because there was a paper released about the state of nature

and how depleted the UK is, the most depleted in the G7. And he was saying to every single person there, because there was an unprecedented gathering of scientists and NGOs coming together to say to the government, would you ever, please come on. And he's just said, every single one of us are here because we had that moment with nature that kind of clicked something in our heads. And everybody has that. I think that the people who were there yesterday represented something like eight million people in the UK who love and care about nature so so you say yeah we

our world's going on 360 around us but actually I think all of us love and desperately need that connection with nature I'm just really lucky that it gets to be my job yeah I think you're right and I definitely want to revisit a conversation about the planet because I'd imagine that's so completely woven into the very fabric of everything that you're documenting but if I could just ask you so what was happening in your world when you had your baby because when you're so passionate about your work but also it's such a big commitment of your headspace, your time, what was going on at the time when you were having your baby? He was now 23, so baby is possibly a past tense. He is 6'6", 23.

He's 6'6"? He's 6'6", yeah. Plays basketball, you'd never guess. So, yes, I had sort of of started filming I'd been filming maybe for seven years max but I was just beginning to really understand it I feel like get into it and get into my groove and and love it and get to travel a bit and not I you're learning all the time right but I was also traveling and I had just directed my first film in Tanzania as well so I'd filmed and directed it um it was it felt like a really great time and I hadn't really

thought about having a baby and then when my son came along it was a um it was a real surprise it was like an absolute bonus it wasn't something Ied, but it wasn't something I'd planned for. And it was, I had sort of imagined that work would continue, but hadn't really thought about the practicalities of 16 hour days and how can you be a parent and how had to stop and that was a bit of a shock because so much of my identity was absolutely tied up in being a cinematographer and traveling and being in wildlife and having these incredible adventures and having my son was a massive adventure and it's one of it's the best thing I've ever done without a a shadow of a doubt. But it was, at the time, a very scary moment for me. I felt very much alone. I felt very much invisible. I was suddenly pushing a pram in East London with no direction

and no idea as a freelancer. Because I think when you're outside of structured work, there was no, you know, it was like, here's your whatever it was, 90 quid a week from the government. Good luck, you know. And I ended up not filming for properly for about eight years wow yeah and that was because I just couldn't work out my my marriage imploded my you know it was it was a really but actually a very incredibly productive time I went and lived in the Serengeti with my son for a year and a half, which not many people do when their kids are four and a half.

And what was the thought process? So this wasn't work, this was just I want to go and experience this with him? No, it was work. It wasn't, when you say thought process. You said you didn't work for eight years, but you had a job of sorts. Oh, God, no, I had to work. I had no money. So I worked, but I couldn't work as a camera woman.

Oh, I see, I see. As a cinematographer. So I worked at ZSL London Zoo raising money for tigers. I worked as a production manager for film. I went out to the Serengeti and I worked on a film. I was meant to film. It never happened. I ended up ordering carrots and triplicate.

But Louis came with me. And so we had this amazing year and a half. And he would go back every eight weeks to see his dad. And various friends and families ferried him backwards and forwards. But he lived with me there, which was an amazing moment. You know, he was only little, but it was pre-school. And we got to, you know, go out every weekend camping. And it it was he has a deep hatred of ants as a result um which is fair enough they did swarm in one night but I guess that probably that's such a formative time at that age at four and a half is when they're really

coming out with like their whole little character you can really see who they are and to have that time just the two of you it's also the age I think where their common sense is a little bit better so you know they're not that baby baby anymore they come out toddler and it probably formed a bit of a keystone in the dynamic you have between you even now that you had that time where he saw you working but you were in somewhere other it was a bit more intense for your relationship but also but this different backdrop could be playful and different and fun yeah no it was we were we had an extraordinary time I mean we traveled around but he also claims to remember absolutely none of it really which is great really reassuring I'm really glad that I didn't work for all that time you put into it all the people had to ferry him back and forth yeah brilliant really time well spent um but yeah so he no I think he does remember it and he remembers little things like um

we had a Land Rover with a tent on top of it and the two of us would just take off and you know we'd cook baked beans literally in the back of this thing and you'd go to bed with the sound of the hyenas or the lions and that's something really I think you mentioned you'd been to Kenya when you were four yeah how much it it really sort of imprinted on your memory oh I remember I mean unlike your son I do actually remember quite a lot of being four but then maybe I'm remembering remembering because I know that that trip was unlike anything I've ever done before and my dad used to have this um thing where he'd say to me take a picture and you know put it in your mind so I did it did actually work I have got memories from different trips it's good advice yeah I mean he was I think he he probably felt like I was that typical kid where

I'd be in the back of the car reading and he'd be going look up the view's amazing and I'd kind of go and then go back to my book so I think a lot of it was really like come on but I think we went to Kenya you know it was it was literally giraffes galloping past the train as we were traveling it was going on safari and seeing lions it was seeing all sorts of nature but also just I mean the colors it was just such a vibrant everything sort of turned up in the contrast right up yeah and I think I was just drinking it all in because it wasn't somewhere I'd ever heard of anyone traveling to it wasn't like people come back from holiday there so kind of extraordinary and as you say maybe your boys got more of that layered in but in a different way and I don't know if you did other trips with you, maybe it starts to intermingle.

But that first time would have been, plus he got to bed in a year and a half is not kind of like a quick dig. We had the most amazing, you know, infrastructure and he had, you know, great friends there. And no, he was really, we were really lucky. What an amazing thing to be able to do. And he went back when he was sort of maybe eight or nine. And just like you described, I remember sort of him driving around with the director of the film I was working on, who was sort of like, Louis was deep into his, you know, reading a cartoon.

And it would be like, love, love, there are five lions roaring just here. Would you ever? Yeah. Sure. You know, head down completely. But yeah, I think it was, I'm really glad. I didn't plan to have a child. I'm so lucky and delighted that I did, as I say, best thing. But also I think it took me a long time to realise there is, I kind of always always I felt really hard on myself for

going back to work when he was eight because it was really hard leaving him you know and and having that that thing where you know you'd have a child on your leg and you'd be trying to leave the house but actually he has an amazing relationship with my mum because of it, because she came to look after him. So I'm really happy about that. And also with his, he got to spend more time with, you know, having a slightly different family. He got to spend time with all of us as opposed to just, you know, in one place. So actually, I think it's an amazing thing. And I used to cast myself.

I used to feel really guilty, really guilty about it all. But actually, I think I wasn't a bad parent. I just wasn't a conventional parent. And that's really important to remember that that's okay. It's right. It's okay to be unconventional. Yeah. And it's an important distinction to make.

yeah and it's an important distinction to make I think we put such an emphasis on the parenting during childhood but it's an a long-term relationship where at some point your child is an adult and the conversation becomes more grown up and they see you in a different light and I don't know that you win many prizes for taking something that's so clearly a big passion for you and so part of who you are and what makes you feel good putting that down on low and then never revisiting it again just so you can not be away for four weeks when they're eight and I know look I'm sure billions of people on mum's net would disagree with me because I remember when I was about to leave one of them once and I was feeling wobbly and I've made the mistake of googling it and there's just all these people kind of going well I mean it is fine to leave them if that's all right with you and personally I never would never I would I would never but if you want to

but that being said the bigger picture is they started to get to know you and now and look at now that it's so much part of who you are. And you're like, this is what my mum does. It's fantastic. No, he says he's really proud of me, which is an amazing moment. My 50th, he stood up and he thanked me for giving him his long neck, which was great. But he also said he was really proud of me.

And that was absolutely a moment because I didn't need him to but it was really lovely to hear it just you know I obviously paid him but no he's and I'm immensely proud of him yeah because he's sort of this remarkable human being who's very you know he he knows who he is which is great yeah and and and actually to get back to work at eight, that was plenty of time. You know, I worked in many other things just trying to keep afloat, but I feel so lucky that I had this job.

I went away and I got a chance to do it again, which makes it even more precious this time, but also makes me advocate slightly differently this time. I'm coming at it from a different perspective. And I think being a parent makes me a better filmmaker how so um because I think I'm slightly less selfish I think when you're a kid you're really selfish and when you have a child you can't be selfish and so then when you're a parent you can't be selfish and then you suddenly go on location and maybe that's just growing up maybe possibly but

I felt like I was a better person on location and better to be around because of having been a parent but I mean I think people who've never been had kids are equally brilliant on location so I must be just talking rubbish well no I think there's all sorts of things that can be the moments that get us to that feeling like that. And I do think that there's many, many ways to open up that gate into being, as you say, easy to be around, a bit more empathetic to people around you, a bit more gentle with the edges of how things go. Fight your battles in a different way. Yeah. And quite often, parenthood is a bit of a big jump into a lot of that stuff. Yeah, absolutely.

It's not that essential. And you're never going to win, are you? No. I mean, when you were describing watching the elephant and how little control you have over it when you're watching it, I was thinking she could have just substituted elephant for teenager. It's so true. Sometimes I bet you wanted a long lens for us, but it's a parenting.

No, I was really lucky he was he was incredible he was he was a good teenager but he also do you know about state boarding schools yeah well I've heard about it yeah I mean um my my friends that were used to tease me and call it a borstal which was mean um but it wasn't but he chose to go to a state boarding school um so he would every week head off and it's um it's it's it's a comprehensive but for kids whose parents work abroad or work at jobs where they can't so you it's um it's an he had an extraordinary um education through it and also has this real independent it's not right for everyone and it was his choice i was totally miserable about the choice.

I didn't want him to go away because I went to boarding school as a kid. But my parents were living in Iran, so I kind of had to. So where was your boarding school then? It was in Sussex and then Ireland. I moved, my mum moved to Ireland with her new partner when I was around 11. And there were six of us. it was like the Brady Bunch suddenly there was there was I mean I know you've got five so you know what a big family but I came from three and then Rufus had three and I was brought to Ireland to Drogheda which is this town about an

hour north of Dublin from from an English school. And the reason I sound Irish but I'm not is because I had to, suddenly I was thrown in the deep end into a school and to survive, I decided to adopt an Irish accent. Wow. Well, with a name like Sophie Darlington, you don't really blend in. It's like they know you're not Irish, right? So it's Sophie O. Darlington.

I am. Yes, exactly. But I loved my time there. I spent many years in Ireland and it's like I'm so grateful for that. It was phenomenal. But it was a real shock going from boarding school in England in Sussex to boarding school in Drogheda. Yeah, I bet. And actually that thing of, I mean, it's an interesting psychology to take you on an accent at 11 to be but to blend in that's an amazingly sort of uh

self-preservation thing okay like if I just need to no I want to not have my head kicked in for being English it was really simple and and actually I mean yeah it's it's I'm I'm Scott so it's the whole thing is ludicrous anyway but it's stuck the accent's stuck because the wind changed more Guinness yeah it is like the wind changed more Guinness I have more I should become amazing and if I'm hanging out with a load of English people then I become more English I'm a chameleon I think yes possibly a little bit and I suppose blending into your surroundings has become part of your day job now correct there you go it's like an an oral uh camouflage yeah well I think sometimes um traveling around a lot as a child

or you know having to uproot and go that does definitely it definitely becomes part of your story I think my mum had that too she moved around a lot when she was young and I think it does make you have to adapt in a different way yeah as opposed to kids who never had that they just had a very consistent you know predictable shape to it all yeah I used to really envy them yeah but then when you get older there's probably things in your toolbox that they might not have absolutely and you each just you kind of make do with what you've got I guess you you we yes I'm very lucky to have had the upbringing I had to have spent time as a kid in Iran to have gone to the Caspian Sea and you know to these amazing cities when people say Iran to me I just think of the great

beauty and amazing architecture and incredible culture. You know, it's sort of like it's somewhere I would love to go back to. So I'm really lucky to have had that in Ireland and a bit of New Zealand from my stepfather and a bit of, you know. Wow. That's a lot. Great melting pot. Great soup. But also, I suppose, when you came to be a young woman, throwing yourself into these situations where sometimes you were maybe one of the few females there. I know that with working on location with crews,

there's no slack cut. It's like, okay, this is what we're here to do. You've got to get it done. You've got to muck in. You've got to quickly find the dynamic between the group. So probably that resilience of being able to jump in led you got to quickly find your the dynamic between the group so probably those that resilience of being able to jump in led you to kind of adapt I think that's yeah that's right and and also it's you're so lucky on your journey aren't you who you meet so when my mentor was a

guy called Hugo van Lauwijk Hugo van Lauwijk was married to Jane Goodall the primatologist not entirely unknown for her strength you know a woman a really so he had no fear of women who were independent who were um in fact he he completely and utterly you know lifted and allied and so I was incredibly lucky with who I got to be working with and trained by you know because you can imagine it could have gone very differently and what is the state of affairs now for women in cinematography it's getting so much better sophie i can't tell you it's um i've just been involved in a project called queens which is um an amazing series that will be out on national geographic next year it's revelatory because it looks at animals from a female perspective,

which is great because you think about it like, where do we have all our animal behaviour learnt from? It's sort of from Darwin who was not famously female or, you know, his views were very much from one side. And so then if you look at nature from another side and so many interesting behaviours and characters are female-led. The societies are female-led. And so we did that. But with a view to, when I started, there was like a handful of women, not even a handful of women, doing it on their own.

And that was quite, that was really the same for many, many years. And actually, the only way you get more women to do it is we had to just actively get out there. And so we mentored on Queen's four, no, five incredibly talented young women, Tanzanian women, Erica Rugabanda, Faith Musendi from Kenya, Erin from alaska tanya from mexico and um gail so we had like five women that we gave a sort of fast track uh on the production too so that the the more women we get out there the more stories the more women the more of us there'll be so there's now and and suddenly there's been this amazing explosion of women looking around and seeing other women doing it that's all to see her to be her is such an important thing yes and that's why someone like faith or erica are so important because to have people

faith is a producer and to have um a kenyan producer who the other day had her first show she's ever produced on Kenyan television. It was such a moment, you know, to see her just, she's just, she's an incredible talent. But to see how that will inspire so many women. Yeah, so there's more. In really long-winded answer, there is many more than there was. We need still more. It's still out of proportion, but we're getting there. Yeah, no, I feel, I mean, from sort of all aspects of film

and that other side of the camera, I feel like there's been a real shift in the tide, you know. But it is all recent, but as you say, it's all kind of gathering momentum. I think the first female cinematographer nominated for an Oscar was only like 2017 or 18 something like that it's recent yeah yeah no for sure for Mudbound and then um Rachel I'm not Rachel oh god this is where I forget all my names but yeah Mandy Walker was you know last year was

one of the you know one of the few I'm a part of an incredible collective called Illuminatrix which is women who are DOPs. And I have never, it's an incredible collective to be a part of because not only because of the talent, which is just, you know, it's just incredible, but also the way they share their knowledge. There is such a different way of being with this collective to anything I've been a part of. People can just get on there

and it's a really of and people can just get on there and and and it's a really open and good space and and so I think we work differently and we complement you know it's not like we're better we all just do it differently and the more voices we have certainly in my line of work right now the more voices we have at a time when we need voices it's so important and so let's get as many women let's get people from their own countries telling their own The more voices we have at a time when we need voices, it's so important. And so let's get as many women, let's get people from their own countries telling their own stories. Let's get it out there as quickly as possible. It's so important.

Yeah. But you're right, it has evened, it's beginning to even out. It's still archaic, but we're getting there. Yeah, it does feel like, as you say, the more voices and names, the more people think, oh, okay, this is becoming more commonplace, that maybe an avenue I can explore. If I could go back to when you had your baby. Yeah.

So if you're someone that's used to observing the minutiae of life and nature, what did you think about having a kid in that regard? I felt like I was having an alien. I think I was so unprepared. When I go on a shoot, I'm really, I have all my research. And I'm just going to say, I don't think those classes, what are they, NCT? Whatever. I don't think they gave me that, what I needed.

I needed papers. I needed researchers giving me documents. No, I remember just looking after I had them and looking in the little kind of plastic bucket they put them in next to you, you know, by the bed. And just that feeling of like, everything has changed. This is extraordinary. I'm not ready for this. Because I don't think you ever feel ready, do you?

Do you feel ready by the fifth? Fourth? Third? I think not really, no. Because I think you always feel like, oh, golly, uh, not really, no. Because I think you always feel like, oh, golly, it's a whole other person. Yeah. Um, it's not a one size fits all thing. I don't feel like they need exactly the same things from me. Mm-hmm.

And in a way, when I got to my last baby, when I had Mickey, Sonny was 14. And I felt like if the first one made me kind of almost giddy a bit drunk on it all like oh my gosh everything's changed this new baby how are the hormones yeah having the fifth one was like being like much more sober it was like he's here now and I know roughly what lies ahead and I know that this is the the little squidgy bit but I also know I've got to help him get through all these little moments yeah I saw that a lot more clearly amazing yeah well I think for me right now um I got a I got a real gift recently which is I had Lou my boy 23 I've suddenly got um I'm stepmom to to an 11-year-old girl who is, I've known since she was

eight and she's just miraculous because she is, as you say, they're all different, but also suddenly being, I'm not a parent because she's got two brilliant parents, but being a part of her life is extraordinary and terrifying because she's an 11 going on 15 16 20 whatever year old girl and it's so different I'm like okay so I can't get the leg I can't get the lego out I can't draw what can I do you know oh okay I've got it I've got to go to you know I've got to go to a retro shop it's a different thing she's so cool she's just cooler than yeah no she's ridiculous that's great but i think um i think you're right about step parenting as a sort of it's sort of an other but i think that the thing is to sort of it sounds like you're

ready or like just lean into that really because as you say she's got the parents you can be the i mean i think it's quite good in a way you don't get a manual for it because it becomes about the two of you and what your relationship needs it to be and that's that's completely okay whatever it looks like you know i think so and as i said her parents are brilliant she doesn't need another parent she's but we have a we've already got an amazing relationship. She's an absolute beacon of joy. She's amazing. Well, I bet she thinks you're pretty cool. So when you're doing your usual work, how often are you away in the year?

How many trips do you go on? I try not to do more than six months because I think it's, I'd like to remain with my partner, with Nick. I really like him it would be really wrong um so I but also I I think that you I go away for a month come back for a couple of weeks three weeks and then I take a few months off in what I'm filming right now when it's wet in Kenya which is sort of March April you can't film there so I'm sort of forced to have those months off which is great and um and I also like um doing

other things I'm I'm developing my own projects and you know I'm sort of like I've got like my finger in loads of little pies which I'm really enjoying and when you were back at work I mean presumably going back to work when he was eight I mean you've sort of said like it was that must be quite it's quite a big deal to be get back into something like that isn't it it was I was very lucky because there was a film being made in Kenya and um I do I do work in other places but it um East Africa has been a real sort of like um place for me a place that i really love to go um i was asked by um an amazing director if i would like to be involved on his feature film and both the camera men had said my name when they were asked if they'd like someone to come in and they both knew i hadn't been working and i went out it was an eight-week shoot so my first time away was eight weeks it was so hard

it was pretty brutal if you haven't been away for like that for no it was brutal but I honestly I needed the cash I was so skint as well and I wanted to get back involved and I left filming on film and I came back into video I'm like hey this is great I can film for ages um life had suddenly become a huge amount easier um in terms of the tech um but out of that eight weeks I I the director turned around and he said wow so if you're the best kept secret in wildlife filmmaking where you know would you come and work on this like full time? And I'm like, I wasn't trying to be the best kept secret in anything. So I got involved in African Cats,

which was this Disney nature feature film. And I followed one family of cheaters for 18 months. And that's when Louis came out. But I was able to do small chunks around his holidays and, you know, times with his dad and um it was really hard but it was I was really glad to get back in I'm so grateful to have got back in again yeah and I guess for you you had to sort of work out what shape that looked like because it's going to be unconventional no matter which way you cut it and sometimes when you do a job like yours, where it's so much about momentum and reputation, I imagine the temptation would be just to kind of fill up the diary and then you might be sat there going,

I'm actually not very happy right now. Really well put. Absolutely right. And you're, yes, you definitely, you think I've got to go work, work, work, work, work. But when he was little, I obviously didn't work six months a year. I worked only when it suited his diary. But it was really hard because trying to find jobs that worked around his diary as well, it was sort of, as being a freelancer, the wildlife filmmaking industry has changed a lot.

But it wasn't particularly tolerant of people with kids. And I think about, I think about I think about all the cameramen that I work with one of the first questions I always get asked in interviews is you know how does it feel to be a mum I'm like well are you asking them because they're away longer than I am you know um and and I know that's that's not being defensive that's just like let's let's make everything the same for everybody across the board. Yeah, he's trying to open up the culture of it because I think we don't have the culture of treating working dads

and working mums the same, which feeds into all sorts of stuff. So it's got to be a conversation that everyone feels they can have and everyone can shape it that way. Otherwise the working dads feel like they've got to just put up and get out there and do it and not mention it. And it's not fair on them either. No, exactly. Exactly.

It's a lose-lose for everyone. So I think it's shifting. It is shifting. But at the time it was definitely not easy. And being a freelancer and having such an unstructured life was really hard. I'm really glad I stuck at it. I'm so glad I stuck at it. Well, yeah, and I suppose you're seeing it evolve.

I wonder, I haven't really got much of a picture in my head for what the more, like, outside of work, is it quite a good quality of life while you're away? You, like, well looked after or is it quite sort of, I've sort of picked you with like camping gear on your back, but maybe I've got this really wrong. No, no, no. You could be, you can go from, during COVID when we were filming, we had unparalleled luxury because we were going into places where nobody else was.

So I was in Zambia and Zimbabwe staying in private camps and because there were no tourists and they were delighted to have us and there was, you know, and they were delighted to have us and there was you know and we were staying in places but you're still working 14 to 16 hours a day and you're coming back with you know you've got a bed as opposed to a camp bed but there have been plenty of times where I've slept in a tent much smaller than your dining room table and for months you know or in Antarctica when I went the first time

for a feature film on penguins, I was in a small tent for a month and with only wet wipes, you know. Yeah, I mean, so I love it when people sit there. It's traditionally someone who, I think it'd be a really great game show where people go, so you think you want to be a wildlife filmmaker?

Then you make them do it. And because everybody goes, oh, it's such a great job. It's brilliant. And it's really, it is, but it takes a certain mindset, I think, to want to sit in 36 degrees for 10 hours in a metre by metre hide or 30 metres up a tree being bitten to death but then you might see something that nobody's ever seen and record something or being up up in the top of the forest in Costa Rica and hearing the waves of sound as a howler monkey comes across the forest

as dawn is breaking it's unlike I'm what a thing to experience right or being next to a lion last week you know a lion just giving it socks and the whole roar coming through you like you can feel it in every part of your body it's great or a sunrise in antarctica where the light is i mean i could just blither on about it for the rest of my life because it's so beautiful, the light. I've never seen anything like it. Like, it's all the colours of the best ice cream, sort of those pinks and goldens and yellows, but on the ice reflected on this water,

and my eyes feel like they've gone to heaven. I've seen some stuff. It's like Blade Runner. That's incredible. And I'm picturing some of this must be you and maybe just one or two other people to experience it. Yeah. That's such a unique thing so many people never get to have anything like that even once in their life. Yeah no I'm so so lucky I and sometimes it's really hard sometimes it's really uncomfortable but usually what you're

seeing is so remarkable I mean I've got to a point now where I go, actually, I'd really rather not film in jungles because I am six foot and jungles and me don't get on. You know, I just constantly hit my head. And, you know, I was working with the Biaka recently in Central African Republic. And they are they move around the forest in a way, you know, because it's their home. But it's just like you barely you could hear me coming for about eight miles. It was just hideous. But then I got to sit up a tree and be completely still the clearing and immerse myself in that so totally and not worry about someone ringing me to try and sell me,

you know, whatever it might be. Or, oh, you've missed your post. You're not on a jungle WhatsApp or anything, no? Yeah, I really try not to be. Yeah, no. I suppose it's just such an extraordinary thing to see all that but it makes me think as well that your job is so specific to a myriad of things uh there's so many things you've got to be good at it's so immersive it's not just about the tech and the

the eye for filming and all that goes into you know being a DOP it's also about being uncomplaining being able to be adaptable being fairly unflinching I'd imagine because I imagine a lot of times when you're filming as well the big animals aren't really what you're worried about because they're safely above. But what about all the creepy crawlies? There must be billions of insects and that kind of thing. Yeah. I mean, usually if I'm filming, I film from a platform just off the ground in the car

so any animal could come in if they wanted. But they don't like us. They're scared of us. I think that we have to, you know. The creepy crawlies are no fun. I am constantly amazed that it hasn't gone worse um you know we all we've all had our little run-ins with malaria and various bites and stuff but touch wood to date i've been okay i mean i was in samburu which is in northern kenya last

year filming elephants and i was sitting and i saw a thing under my leg and I just sort of brushed it off and then I looked and it was like oh damn and it's a scorpion and by the way if you have a scorpion the ones with the thin tails and the big legs they're grand it's the fat tail you got to worry about this lad was tiny or less was absolutely tiny but the fattest tail I've ever seen and I sort of flicked it and got a cup and took it outside and you know see you later please don't come back in my tent and I was telling the guys and they were like oh those oh yeah no that killed the guy last you know so these are not lightweight sitting there with my QPR Nick supports QPR bless him and i always bring qpr goalie socks to wear like just really very stylish um and and it was on my blooming yellow qpr goalie sock i don't support qpr by the way

that scorpion does yeah it does um but you must be so unfazed by so many situations you find yourself in i'm totally phased by so many you should try me when? I'm totally fazed by so many. You should try me. When I come home, I can't- You're like a scorpion with just a cup and a bit of paper. Yeah, but it's not going to try and eat me or bite me. It would only bite me if I hurt it. I'm much more scared when I'm crossing the road. I come back and I can't cross a road.

I'm absolutely hideous at it. I'm just like, oh, cars, help. I'm pathetic. And probably a really stupid question, but your speaking voice is very calming is that something you've taught yourself with being in these sort of meditative states with filming or you naturally are very I'm not calm at all no I'm not chilled I really am I think I'm I'm known as a bit of a I hum when I film when I'm really into it I'm I'm yeah I'm humming to myself just yeah but that's when

I'm just like if you're looking for two hours waiting for that cheetah to do whatever it is or that bear or that wolf um it sort of helps me concentrate um I can be incredibly quiet for a long long time but then people I've worked with say that they can tell if I've had a quiet day because I come out and I'm just like wow well you're keeping it today feels very chilled good good that's great that's working so if we talk a little bit about the sort of big you know horrific situation we've got into with the planet what your, how does it work for someone like you who's so ensconced in the animal world and the consequences of what humans are doing to the planet?

And where does, I suppose, you know, how do your emotions lie with it when you're sort of seeing it? You must see evidence of things now. I'm desperate. No, we've been seeing it for years. And that's the awful thing is that we haven't been allowed to say it. So what was the first time you think that you had an experience where you went from just, you know, the awe of the natural world to thinking, oh, I can actually see with my own eyes, evidence that things are slipping. There's always been little things. So like you, the research that goes into these projects, the work that people do

before we get to hit the ground is just phenomenal. You know, there's people who sit there for months little things so like you the research that goes into these projects the work that people do before we get to hit the ground is just phenomenal you know there's people who sit there for months and months setting up these shoots and they look into the weather they look into the behavior everything is really planned because they're expensive and you want to make them worth their while and because they're unpredictable you want to make them as predictable as possible and there would be that thing that you know oh it's raining, and everyone says it doesn't usually rain at this time of year. Or I remember going to the Mongolia, even in the 90s,

and we were filming an episode about deserts, and we were filming Mongolian gazelles. And there's this big migration of Mongolian gazelles, and there were 250,000 of them that were going on the east of Mongolia. And it sounds a bit bit it was actually an amazing trip because it was an all women all vegetarian and all left-handed film crew which it must have been a little bit like the circus that hit town because it was Mongolia in the 90s

and it was it was such an adventure but we got there and all the gazelles were dying from foot and mouth because it had rained so heavily. And so even then in the 90s, it was starting. But I don't think the penny really dropped until I was filming polar bears in Quebec in Canada for our planet. And we'd gone up and we were working with a Canadian camera person who had filmed this behaviour that was incredible polar bears fishing for Arctic char. And what happens is that they sit like brown bears waiting for the char to go up the river. And it's an incredible thing. And nobody really filmed it particularly extensively.

And so we went back with underwater cameras and drones. And I was on long lens. And we had carted all this gear up to the north of Quebec. And it rained and it rained so heavily that the bears didn't ever catch any fish. They just sat there and all these bears, you can see all these skinny bears and it's really brutal. And we came back with not one bit of behaviour. It didn't happen. It didn't happen.

And the one occasion we could get through the clouds to actually see them, they were all just sitting there looking skinny, and it was... It's when you go to Antarctica and there's mud. It's when you go to Svalbard and you're having to wear waterproof down because it's the only thing that will keep you warm,

but it's because before you would have to just have a warm coat now you've got to have a waterproof coat because it rains as well as snows it's like you really the destruction is so tangible and in kenya right now having had years of just the most horrendous drought the rain has been catastrophic because there's no topsoil left. So you just, everywhere we go, we see it. Wow. Everywhere we go. And it's sort of terrifying because, you know, we're still being, you know,

I don't want to be all gloom and doom, but it is pretty gloomy. We have a minute right now to make a moment. You know, we have, the government has a moment. I don't know why it's just the government. It needs to be a cross-party thing. I couldn't agree more. It's got to be outside of politics. I don't understand why it's not cross-party.

I don't get it. I've never understood that. It doesn't make any sense. It shouldn't be trying to score points or do, it's got to be just what is the best thing. But especially because the decisions are so hard. Yeah. And because nobody's going to vote in those decisions decisions nobody's going to get elected for voting in those decisions no so just take it out of the running for this take it out of the running exactly my brother who's a horribly clever individual an archaeologist and um um but also a

um a thinker about such things he um he he he was like why don't we just have the you know the department of the environment that is nothing to do with anyone other than the environment and scientists and data and facts and that's it doesn't matter what you vote that's what you're getting people yeah that's it's completely obvious that that should be how it's done i think it should i think it's really important that in the next election, however you vote, you make sure you're politicians. It's absolutely, as Chris Packham was saying yesterday, it's mandatory that in their policies they address climate and fishing and farming and forestry as part of that. But they have policies, every single one of them, that they're all joined up on. They can't be shirking. They can't be. Now is not the time.

joined up on yeah they can't be shirking they can't be it's it's now is not the time yeah it makes me feel this weird emotion in me where I just feel sort of helpless and a bit hysterical about it all at once I agree I'm actually really full of rage um actually I'm full of rage because I just sort of it's this ticking thing it's like why how can we all stand around there was this woman yesterday she was amazing speaking um in front of defra and she's a scientist and she's worked on the last four state of nature um documents and she says that every time they put forward what has to be done and every time they've been ignored and she said and she was in tears she's like I'm a mother and I can't sit there and look my child in the face anymore and do this.

I can't do it. And you... It's quite stark, isn't it? It's very stark. But it is. It's really stark. But it is just... It would be so much easier to do it now than in 10 years' time.

That's what nobody's really getting, I think. Or not nobody, that's unfair. That's really unfair. Christiana Figueres from Outrage and Optimism. She's an amazing person because she says, feel the rage and use it positively. There is still hope, and there is. Yes, well, that's when I think, you know,

being angry is a very necessary component, actually. You know, it's good to know that you're still angry about things because that's the fuel that gets through to the next bit yeah and actually I was having a chat with my 19 year old the other day and he said I think now's the hardest time to be a teenager and I said really you know what and he said yeah because it's all about you know what's happening in the planet and what the like you know what we're taking over from and I was just like oh my gosh you poor thing no it's awful, isn't it? Yeah.

And I hadn't really heard him say that before. But obviously it's all around him, and he's aware of all the conversations, his generation. Well, I hope he votes. Yes. Oh, he definitely will. Yeah, definitely. I hope he votes.

Well, when I look at Sammy's kids in Kenya, and Sammy sits there and he goes I want my grandchildren you know I want them to have this place to have because everywhere you go it's sort of you can see it all being eroded so yeah but if we can doing what we do the reason I do what I do and I hope if it as I said I think earlier if it moves people if it makes them care give a damn then we're winning yeah and and that's why I'll carry on doing it and if people just start to treat it like kind of pretty wallpaper then we give up we have to think of something else I don't think it's got that place I think that people it really does

raise I think it can be a very big talking point actually I I hope so. And presumably when you're filming these animals for, you know, days, weeks on end, you must build a relationship with individual animals. It's not just... I've got one of them on my not wedding ring. What's that? It's this charm who's a lioness. I'll squeak it on, squeak it off later.

And it's got some elephants I filmed and an octopus and magpies. It's just like an absolute menagerie on my finger. That's lovely. I love pretty much all the characters you work with because you do spend time and you really, whether it's, you know, in Antarctica with like, I don't know, 350,000 penguins, it's you and 350,000 penguins at knee level chatting to you all day. And if you don't give a damn about them,

you're really in the wrong place. Do you know what I mean? You've got to give a damn. But some of them, that charm is from Dynasties, which was a BBC show. And she was this lioness who was just full of feist and fire, but she was old and baggy and saggy. She wasn't like particularly pretty.

She looked a bit like she was a bodybuilder from quite a way back. But she was such a phenomenal lioness. So you do, of course you do. And if you don't, I would really wonder why you didn't. And when you look down at your ring and you see charm, does it give you a little bit of a, I think I've got a bit of a lioness in me too. Ah, yes, maybe. your ring and you see charm does it give you a little bit of a I think I've got a bit of a lioness in me too ah yes maybe I I think I'd like to be an elephant more than a lioness why is that elephants are oh god I could talk for hours about are they your favorite yeah I think I think most

probably no it depends on the day wolves who doesn't love a wolf come on it's the wolves are great I know I had a moment once on a beach in Alaska where a wolf came and it was a curious wolf I think somebody had been feeding this wolf because it was very much looking in our backpacks but we were out there we had a marine flare as a for protection which is like a big candle and a raincoat to flap at things which is what we ended up having to do but this wolf just trotted up to us and so we were on foot and it came as close as you are to me so and it just looked me in the eye and I'm on my knees and it was taller than me and it had these bright yellow eyes and it looked into me and I just remember thinking it's one of those days so

it's one of those days where you're never going to forget this moment when you were eye to eye with a wolf and it looks straight back at you there was no fear there was no um yeah so i you definitely have relations and my favorite so wolves one day it could be an ethiopian wolf another day elephants because they're social and they have families and they have joy they play and they communicate through frequencies we can't hear but I'm absolutely sure we can feel. So when you're around them you hear rumbles but their rumbles are actually below our hearing and they also, I believe, if you get loads of complaints about this, sorry about that, but through their toes they've got pads on their feet because they've got about

an inch of soft stuff which is why they're really quiet they creep up on you which is hard to believe but they really do and they um feel the sandways through their toes so they feel noise and they communicate for miles so that's where they know how to you know through history. And so elephants are pretty special. Yeah, that's incredible. Isn't it? Yeah. They're so cool. Yeah, it's making humans look really bad at the moment on all levels. I think we're really, yeah, we're excelling at that.

Yeah. If only we could be run by elephants. But when you're out and about, like let's say you're on, I don't know, crowded British beach or in a park, do you ever think my long lines would be picking up some extraordinary scenes of human behavior right now definitely oh my god yeah even on the overground coming over today yeah definitely oh no we're right i mean you know that's thank goodness that's all covered by some

amazing cinematographers and do you think this is going to be something you do until you just can't anymore? Until I'm blind, yeah, most probably. I hope so. It's quite physical, but, yeah, I love it. I mean, I hope I've got a few more years. I'd like to do my own projects as well and slightly go off-piste. I like the way nature comes at us through,

not just through wildlife television, but also art. I'm a huge fan of going to see, you know, nature, a comforter with his triptychs or Richard Moss with his way of looking at the world through different coloured films. Really brilliant. So, so yes i hope so and does it feel strange given that there wasn't really a pathway laid out for you to do what you do that now your name might be the name that some the next generation uses like their mark of like i want to

be like i wouldn't that be amazing i had someone called me a trail blazer recently and that was I never set out to be that but that is what a compliment I'm going to take that yeah no that would be awesome I think it's definitely happening there'll be people out there where they've got that marker I just think it's so brilliant so it's been such a privilege to hear your stories I kind of think we could do like a whole other series on just the things you've seen and what you've witnessed but um i'm very glad you do what you do and you'll keep up the storytelling thank you stay away from the bullet ants i hear they're really painful don't i've got a bullet ant story i could tell you too oh my god tell me the bullet ant story so i just for reference i don't know much about bullet ants except for they

they register on the pain this is something you might where would you find a bullet ant um in in the amazon okay so in peru in the flooded forest and there's a pain index which you obviously have heard of and there is it i think it goes from oh gosh what is it one to nine maybe i think that sounds right schmidt something pain index and um a b is about a one and a bullet ants about a nine and i had my first ever climbing lesson when i started there was one other camera woman justine who's absolutely brilliant one of my great friends and everybody thought we were the same woman because there was so few women and even though interchangeable yeah slightly terrifying she's really brilliant at climbing and i am not.

And anyway, so I found myself because she'd broken her ankle and they needed another woman to pretend, you know, that there was loads of women doing this. So off I went to the Amazon and I had my first lesson in the flooded forest in the Amazon. And as I'm going up, I was saying to Tim, my incredible instructor, Tim, there's an ant and it looks like a bullet ant. And he's like, so relax, it's fine. It's not's an ant and it looks like a bullet ant and he's like so relax it's fine it's not a bullet ant it's grand and i'm like trying to haul myself up this

tree in 30 whatever degrees wearing full rainwear because there's so many things that are biting you and um and i'm like no i'm sure tim i'm sure it's a bullet ant sophie it's fine just come on up and i'm like i'll get up okay you know 20 later, I'm up the top of the tree. And we're chatting away. And it's like, I've got up the tree. This is great. I'm going to do some filming on this ridiculously small meter by meter platform. And he goes, oh, look at that.

And he goes, look at all those bullet ants. I'm like, Tim, you bastard. And it was just like a load of bullet ants, but apparently really not aggressive. Okay. They're not going to hurt you unless you hurt them. That's nature kind of for you. It's very rare. I think tigers, polar bears are the only ones who really want to eat you. Everybody else, just like leave us alone, we'll be fine.

Okay. What do they look like just so I know? Sort of like a big, furry, quite nice, cute ant, if I'm honest. They're not like, they don't look like they're gonna like really hurt apparently they look quite like a wood ant according to Tim because that's what he told me they were okay they weren't no no I don't want to I don't really want to encounter one of them yeah I can after you finish recording to introduce you to I've got a cat and a hamster upstairs I'd love to meet you I get the impression you could film the hamster for 16 hours and you weren't getting usable footage.

I love a hamster. I lost a hamster once. I'm sorry. Yeah. I know, I'm really keen on hamsters. Oh, he's very sweet. Well, thank you so much, Sophie. Thank you for having me.

It was an absolute joy. Well, absolutely. That was great. Thank you. thank you thank you so much to Sophie for talking to me it's funny it really made me think is that something I could do would I have the patience the focus to go and spend hours and hours and maybe slightly uncomfortable conditions just to get the footage. I think you have to be so passionate, don't you? It has to be just the thing that you do. There's no plan B. And I don't know, I suppose there's a lot to be said for having a job that completely

takes you away from yourself like that. That is pretty special, isn't it? And I imagine when you do get to film, or you're seeing it happen first time around, when you get to view something exquisite happening in nature, that must be pretty incredible. It must be like a really special moment. And then when you get that feeling, you must be just sort of like living for it next time around. Anyway, it was really lovely to talk to Sophie and uh yeah to sort of just have a little little insight into into all of that and I'm now speaking to you on

Sunday morning um it has been a nice weekend actually pretty quiet I had one of those days yesterday it's been very cold as we spoke about before I spoke to you on cold Friday it was a cold Saturday so I had that thing where I just stayed at home with the little three kids and we just had

they had pyjamas on the whole day and we just like played with loads of stuff in the playroom we hadn't played with for ages and I did a big clear out and I'm very very happy when I'm pottering like that and then I made some nice supper I did three recipes from a previous spinning plates podcast guest uh Sabrina Goyer and we had some delicious um food so yeah it was a really nice very wholesome nice quiet Saturday today got a couple of things on kids party go to that kind of stuff but I'm just very much enjoying the fact that I'm home because the next few weekends I've got gigs and things back in which will be lots of fun but

weekends are really special when I get to be at home for the whole thing I love it yes I'll just continue Sunday in that vein, actually. I've got a couple of new podcasts to record, actually. These will be my first ones of the new year, this week and next week. So I'm looking forward to that. I need to wake up that bit of my brain, get back into gear. I've got a very good list of people that I'm also booking in. So I'm feeling good, actually, feeling happy. people that I'm also booking in so I'm feeling good actually feeling feeling happy and I yeah I'm trying to think if there's any other news that I need to share with you I don't think so

I'm feeling pretty chill right now I've got um Ray's got an extra friend over for a sleepover about to take the little two to a trampoline party I don't know what's come over me but I've booked myself in too so that I can take other kids with me like't know what's come over me, but I've booked myself in too so that I can take other kids with me. Like, you know, Mickey's the one going, but then I'm taking another two in. But now I'm like, that seems really enthusiastic. I'm not sure I feel like bouncing right now.

I'm not in a bouncy mood. And then once we've done that, the rest of the day can just sort of unravel, really. My 14-year-old's gone off to play some sport. So I don't need to. Everybody, all my dogs will have had a run today, which is always what feels quite nice and satisfying because it means the rest of the day you can just be like moochie

and everybody's fine with that. Anyway, I'm very much rambling to you. I hope you have a lovely week. I'm trying to think if I've got anything fun coming up this week got our first full band gig coming up at the end of the week that'll be really nice and then actually this is quite joji but I got um I'm filming a TV in France in Paris at the end of the week so I get to go to Paris again next Saturday. I know, second time in January. I would not have predicted that. So that'd be really lovely.

Although pretty quick, if I'm honest. But I don't know what to wear. I'll find something fun. As I say that sentence, I'm eyeing up a very cute new mini sequin caftan. That might be it. It's blue, white and gold. It's pretty gorgeous.

Anyway, have a lovely week. Thank you so much to sophie darlington thank you to claire jones for producing for to uh lma for her beautiful artwork as ever to richard for editing it thank you darling and uh yeah mainly of course as always thank you to you for joining me and i will see you very very soon all right lots of love see you very, very soon. All right. Lots of love. See you soon. Bye, mate. Thank you.