Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 12: Louise Redknapp

Episode Date: October 26, 2020

This week I talk to Louise Redknapp who pressed pause on her performing career when she became a mum. Now her two boys are older, Louise has thrown herself into writing and performing - something that she’s loved since she was young. We spoke about self-confidence, the concept of having it all and the urge to perform 'even' when you're a mum. we also compare notes as members of the ‘people who’ve done strictly ’ club! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hey there, how's you? How have you been? How's this week been for you? I hope it's been all all right. What's been going on around here? I hope it's been all all right. What's been going on around here? Not too much really. We're just now on half term. Last week, the kids were still at school except for Kit, who was at home because

his school broke up a bit earlier than the others. So he was kind of living the charmed life because I was still trying to work. So he was basically sort of dividing his time between the internet and meal times which is pretty perfect I think he seemed really happy with that I've been doing little bits and bobs of work because I've got an album coming out soon so that's been quite nice although I think whenever I've had a promotional opportunity I've been dressing up that little bit too much because I'm so overexcited to actually put on something sparkly and put some makeup on and some heels and head out of the house. In fact, the other day I did a gig. That's pretty crazy, isn't it? And I really loved it. I sang to actual people with actual faces. It was great. That was

at GAY. Anyway, enough about me. You don't want to hear about me. Thank you so much for the response for my podcast guest last week, Nadia Hussain. I'm so glad you liked her and our chat. And I thought, well, I've set the bar very high. I must continue to this level. So this week I am talking to Louise Redknapp, who is somebody I've met a few times over the years. We sort of used to run into each other at various bits and bobs. And I always found her really lovely to talk to and really warm and smiley and friendly. But then when I started doing this podcast, I thought, oh, it would be really interesting to speak to her because she effectively put a pause on her work life for the time when she had her babies and was raising her family. And now has gone back into work but as Louise speaks about with real candour you

know it's not been without uh some grief actually because she's had a really quite a nasty amount of abuse in the press actually about the fact that she wanted to work and why couldn't she just be happy to stay at home and there was even a sort of suggestion that work was some for some some sort of um what's the word I'm looking for? Her work has sort of spurred on the end of her marriage, which I find, I don't know, in this day and age, aren't we a bit beyond all that? Like, oh, you've had your kids, you want to go back to work, you should have been staying at home. It's a bit old fashioned, isn't it? Also, you'll hear when Louise speaks, you know, she felt like divorce was a really big

thing that made her think, okay, I need to find myself again in my work. And actually I've realized that's what a lot of these podcasts conversations are. You know, I thought when I started spinning plates, oh, it's talking about how we sort of balance it. And it is, but really what I've realized what the sort of crux of it is, is about how we manage to keep our sense of who we are. And as Louise says, you know, she'd had these dreams of dancing, singing, performing what the sort of crux of it is it's about how we manage to keep our sense of who we are and as Louise says you know she's had these dreams of dancing singing performing since she was really young so for her that's an instinct to go back to who she was before all the other stuff before relationships and babies and everything and I think that's actually the kernel that we're sort

of trying to protect and sometimes it gets a bit lost in the wash when you become a parent. Or sometimes it might be the thing that actually makes you uncover really what it is you really like to do. But I think it's really interesting to me that Louise has been confident enough to go back to work even amidst this nastiness because it's given her so much, so much value

and so much self-confidence. So I went to visit her we spoke when it was sort of quite quite new after lockdown I guess because I remember it was I was still excited to go around in someone's house so I saw her dogs her mum her sons we sat in her garden and I got sunburned and I knew I was getting sunburned because I knew I'd sat in the sun and I thought I can't say anything. I'm too deep into the chat now and if I say it now, it's going to interrupt the flow. So ladies and gentlemen, I sacrificed my pale skin for you for this conversation.

So just bear that in mind when you're listening. Actually, don't bear that in mind. Do you want to think about my sunburn? You want to think about Louise? Anyway, thanks for coming back to find me here. I'll see you on the other side bye so here we are um we're in a nice shady spot but we're still outside this is quite extraordinary what you've got downstairs actually i sort of feel like it should have a name for itself, I suppose it's essentially a sunken patio. Yeah, yeah. So we can see the green trees and the amazing blue sky. Yeah, it's my little haven here, actually.

It's really weird. Part of the reason I really liked this house was because I'm a real outdoors person. Even in the cold, I'll sit outdoors with a blanket and my book. I really like being outdoors, and I think there's not a day through the summer, even if it's raining, that I don't open all the doors up. Really? Oh, that's lovely. and my book, I really like being outdoors. And I think there's not a day through the summer, even if it's raining, that I don't open all the doors up.

Really? Oh, that's lovely. And just still have the air. If it's cold and freezing, obviously not. But if the air's warm... OK, that wasn't me either. That's a spectacular noise. I really hope we got that. No, don't worry, that was very canine. All the noises are pretty canine, to be honest.

I don't think any... Not me in the mornings. If it wasn't you, that would be amazing. Really impressive sound you could achieve. Can you imagine? Would you leave straight away? You must have started doing that. You know, I like to think I just go with it.

I don't really feel the need to tell people afterwards. Yeah. It's like they're all going to be walking around now, aren't they? That's fine. I like the clip clop of their little nails on the on the tiles it's sweet and you just said this bit up here there's like a little raised bit where you can sit and you said every morning you come and have a sit out there yeah yeah that's my little sort of at the beginning of lockdown i ordered a sofa an outdoor sofa i'm

so impatient i had to get one that was in stock you know because I need it that week I couldn't do the whole we've got to wait six weeks um and I have to say I love sitting out there of morning I just home you know I it's like being in the living room but outside so um yeah it's my little 10 minutes of peace before the day starts well you said you're not very good at meditating which actually I'm exactly the same but that sounds like it's a nice bit of tranquility actually yeah yeah it's finding your own form of meditating isn't it I've tried so many times to meditate and I sit there and I think am I meditating no I'm thinking about what I need that wasn't me again I'm thinking about what I need to buy at the shops you know what I'm going to do for dinner who needs to be picked up from where am I ever going to get a job again I start thinking about a million things I think this is not meditating I'm sure my mind's going 100 miles an hour yeah so I actually have learned that by doing things

and busying myself in my own little space is better for me so I just really silly things I could go and tidy up the garden or a jet spray like my mum thinks I'm obsessed with jet spraying but it's because the noise is almost gets rid of everything else and I'm focusing on something but not really and I switch off so um yeah it's about finding what's right for you isn't it definitely well I think what you just described I think it's actually got a name I think it's called flow I think call it that, where you're involved in a task that's got enough purpose that you've alleviated the pressure that you should be doing anything else. But it gives you the freedom to think about other stuff.

Okay, flow. I like that. Flow, yeah. Because I think that's basically what works for me as well. Well, it's handy that yours is quite, you know, it's got a cleaning. Mine was just building lots of Lego, like during lockdown, I built an entire Lego set, a really complicated one. Wow. wow it was a bit wow but it's also not as useful as jet washing yeah see that's the thing i think everyone's really pleased that my flow is basically

tidying up and cleaning and getting things in order yeah i could never do um lego building i'd mean i just i'd get about 20 minutes in and give up yeah well it's quite i can reflect on it and see it's a little bit of an odd thing to do but i do like it but lots of people did that in lockdown i saw lots of like puzzles and oh yeah i love a puzzle as well do you yeah i love puzzles and tetris you ever played tetris yeah but i'm one of again i would just be like oh whatever i'm done i'd be like i'd a quarter of the way through and then just not finish. In that case, I'd definitely beat you. Yeah, you would definitely beat me.

I do that a little bit with the jet-spray as well, though. It's like I nearly do it all and there's the last bit. I think I've had enough now. I need to go back in. Maybe it gives you a little bit of something to come back to. Exactly. You probably build it in deliberately. I haven't quite finished that jet-spray.

And you're here with your boys at the moment. Yeah, my boys and my mum um yeah which has been kind of weird beginning of lockdown I was really panicked I finished I was three nights into a tour I was um back in a run on at the Savoy for nine to five so I just I was really going I was like okay I'm taking off this is happening and then it all just stopped and I think it took me three weeks to stop having a major panic attack about what is happening here yeah and then weirdly I think as more people got more anxious about the time that it was taking to get back to normal I got more into the mindset of I think I really needed this

I think and I really forgot what it was like to just take a step back and be with the kids and not feel the need to be successful and to keep on not fail you know yeah and but no it's okay to just be and have some time in your own company as well, I suppose. Yeah, yeah. Because it probably felt like there'd been so much momentum building up to that point and working so hard. I mean, launching the new album alongside doing the West End stuff is more than most people could handle, I think.

Yeah, and I remember my management sitting me down and saying, how do you feel about doing a tour in between a west end run and releasing an album on a west end run I was like it's perfect it's what I need I just needed anything to consume my mind outside of real life you know um so and it was great and for that time it really was great but I feel that equally it's been good to to take stock a little bit and yeah I don't know just really stupid things like family dinners all of a sudden have become a thing of the evening rather than everybody just grab a bit of dinner or I'm

not going to be home too late but nanny's indoors and she's going to you know get your dinner ready it becomes a real moment of right we're going to eat at seven and I lay the table and we sit out here where we sat now and we have a real it's it's an event rather than a necessity of grabbing something and I think I forgot how important that was. Yeah, well, I think what you've described in terms of your emotions with the lockdown is exactly what was mirrored in our house and households all over the place, I think, with that thing of the first three weeks, just thinking, I had this real feeling as well

of like, this has got to count for something. I've got to produce something or make something out of this. And then I thought, I don't feel creative about this at all. I'm actually just really freaked out. Mind you, you did do the best disco nights. I mean, you did. And it took me a while. I didn't see, everyone was talking about it

and I hadn't seen it. And then all of a sudden I saw it and was completely mesmerized and entertained. It was the stepping over, the toys, and the kids were just ignoring you on the sofa while you were singing. I was like, this is my house, literally. It just really reminded me of just such normality

because to other people, you're Sophie Ellis Baxter and somebody that's a pop star. And to your kids, they were just like literally lying on the sofa completely ignoring you while you were singing to thousands and thousands of people my sequence I mean I really went as far as I could to be extrovert really and um but um I think so many people could relate to it because I know that when you were coming here today normally I'm such a clean tidy freak I was thinking oh my god is it tidy and I thought actually no I saw you like stepping over loads yeah you've

seen the inside I've seen the inside so I felt so much more at ease about you coming yeah you definitely firstly the house is actually spotless and secondly yeah I I live in a sort of I don't even know what it is I wouldn't say it's carnage like there's everything has a place but it's quite um yeah it's quite full-on and also I love stuff and knickknacks and things like that so there's just you know I can't really need a shelf or very inviting because I live in quite an uninviting house like my lounge is barely anything in it and I'm sometimes my friends always say like put more of you in here and I don't know why if it's just a mind thing that I need services but when I when I watch your videos or your ITGs I call them don't know why if it's just a mind thing that I need services but when I when I watch your

videos or your ITGs I call them don't I know someone fashion your videos you know what I mean on the YouTube yeah but I'm watching you on the net um I was like oh my god it looks so inviting like you know you could just sit there and have a few glasses of wine and just completely yes chill out that's feel comfortable which thank you is nice but I love them by the way I love them I look forward to seeing what you're wearing well there was a time when I thought am I gonna look back on these and be like that's a woman and going through like some sort of trauma drawn out trauma um but yeah it's funny I was thinking about about you in relation to them on the way here because

I was thinking for me when I first when the lockdown first started I realized how much I needed my own space with work and my creativity and it's so much part of me that doing those bonkers little gigs every Friday night even though I was yeah stepping over the one year old and this kind of thing I was still it would still give me this, the same, it mimicked the same responses I get when I go to work. Yeah. Which is really interesting to me actually, because I hadn't gone anywhere. Yeah, yeah, I get that. Yeah. And I thought it's, it's clearly something I've built into how I am that allows me just to, to be, be balanced, just about. Yeah. I don don't still don't feel like

I've got 100% right and I need to find more ways of giving more boundaries at home because I realize I don't really have enough of that but I still I think I needed it and I was thinking about you because I was thinking you know obviously our chat is primarily about the balance of work and family and clearly now work is so much part of what you're up to. And there's this real passion. And then not having that outlet when you had your babies, that's quite a big part of you. It's not just like you were working in an office

or you were working where it's work in a sort of much more functional way. Yeah, yeah, totally. When they were young, you can almost allow yourself to accept that you're not working when they're really young. As they started getting older, and I felt like everyone's life was moving at a pace. The boys are getting older, they've got their social life. You know, at the time I was married and Jamie was getting busier and busier in a in a world which I only know which is entertainment um and I remember this I don't know who has just arrived at my door I'm not expecting anybody anything like my house would it be Amazon we're like a

bit obsessed should I have a quick look yeah you can have a look. It's cool. Don't worry. Take your time. I don't know who's ordered anything. I'm on first name terms with DHL and UPS guys now. They're like, morning, Lou. I'm like, oh, morning. Who's ordered what? Oh, don't worry. Me too. I've been like that for ages. Like, it's like literally they're the only people I was seeing. So they were chucking me a package from across the, you know, the steps.

It's like, oh, it's the highlight of my day. It's quite crazy how touching. And we've got a milkman who puts literally, know milk bottles on the step and even just seeing that as like a little sign of someone having been at my door i used to really like it yeah it's like i used to always have a little chat and say thanks so much how are you and and you could see that you were kind of making each other's days a little bit more bearable yeah but um anyway going back to the the real stuff um I think I got to the stage where it sounds really hard to explain because I know like so many people had such an opinion on my life

for a couple of years like a massive opinion it was such a a talking point for people and some of it very cruel bizarre yeah yeah really cruel because you don't really ever know. And you're right, I grew up from the age of 10 going to stage school and music was my everything. It's what makes me tick. It's what gives me my confidence, which is so bizarre because you're standing on stage in front of people yet without that I feel very unconfident, but I have the ability to go and do that

but it gave me my confidence in knowing I was worth something that I was acceptable that I could walk into a room and put on that that front of who I was because without any of that I actually most probably I'm quite an unconfident person and um to all of a sudden lose everything you know in life that gives you your fire in your belly you're confident to be what you want to be um this time went on I just struggled more and more with having no direction and no want to do anything and that really really panicked me and I think when I did sort of start getting back to work I read some of the coolest things about I just wanted fame and I should have been happy with what I had and um you know I was going through a midlife crisis and I just wanted to stand up and scream, from the age of 10, this is all I've wanted to do.

And I stopped doing it for a number of years due to my family, which worked for me. But please don't, you know, hate me for wanting to get back out and do something I love doing, which makes me tick, you know. It was a to get back out and do something I love doing which which makes me tick you know um it was a really tough time actually I'm not surprised I don't know who horrible experience that and not find that hard even if you've got your family around you and you know that you know friends and all that support um you just feel that that you let

people's opinions really embed in your mind. And I knew what I was doing was okay and I wasn't doing anything wrong. And, you know, I remember getting offered to go and be in Cabaret, which was a tour in production. It's for 12 weeks. And six of those weeks between Tuesday and Saturday, I would be away. And six of the weeks were near enough that I'd come home.

And it wasn't ideal with two children, but my children were teenage, you know, or eight and, you know, the other one a teenager. And my mum was around and they have a dad that can also look after our children, you know. And I remember reading such cool things that I was going off to do that. And to me, it was such a lifeline that I got to go and sing and act and do the only thing I know how to do, actually.

And it was so bittersweet because in one way, I was after 15, 18 years, I was doing a job that I trained to do, yet it come with so much negativity whilst I shouldn't be doing it. Which is ridiculous. I couldn't understand why I shouldn't be doing it. I couldn't get my head around it. No, well, there is no reason. It actually doesn't make any sense. And I don't think most people think the way the press reports things,

all those nasty comments you get at the bottom of articles. I honestly, I don't feel like I meet those i honestly i don't feel like i meet those people i don't feel like i know those people um it's almost like a sort of separate fire that people just accept needs to be feel yeah you'll put on it but it's not it's not like a real thing anyone with an ounce of experience maturity sensitivity would see it a very different way. But it's almost like they sort of accepted that that's the way these things get written about. Yeah, and some people were supportive. And on a whole, it was, you're right, it's the comments, I think, more than anything.

There's such vitriol sometimes in that little bit at the bottom, which is horrible. It's quite unkind, and I never understand why they're there. Because I think the only person they really hurt are the person that they're written about. I don't get what we gain from it. The only person that suffers at the hand of it is who the story's about. But I did take a lot of it on board and it really panicked me.

And it's taken me, I think, most probably to now to actually go, no, do you know what? I'm okay. I'm doing the right thing by my family and I'm a good person and yeah opportunities will come and go and in our line of work you grab them when they're there because you don't know when the next opportunity is going to come along I've been doing this long enough to not be in a fantasy world it's we live in a world where you know opportunities don't always arise and now I will take and grab and as I did when I was younger I'm actually working on a book at the moment and

my my thing that I keep on coming back to is I need to be as fearless now as what I was when I was 17 ah you know that you grab every opportunity and you run with it and you're confident with it and you let no one tell you otherwise. Your mum, your dad, your boyfriend at that time, you're like, well, no, I'm doing this because I believe this is right. And I think it's taken me to now,

which is a lot of years on, to go, actually, I'm going to try and be that fearless again. Well, it is a long of years on to go actually I'm gonna try and be that fearless again well it is a long time in some ways but actually I think there's a lot of growing up that happens all the time and when you first had your first baby did you always imagine that you were gonna stop work or did it just sort of evolve that way yeah it evolved that way I think when I had the first one um Charlie it's it took me a really long time to get pregnant and have him and I was living such a blissful amazing life you know you've got this baby and I'm so happy and it was lovely and I'd been working so much as a young person in the

industry that was just lovely to have a bit of that time at home with the with the baby and um but you kind of think that you'll carry on to a certain extent. And then when I had the second one, Beau, I had already made an album whilst I was pregnant and that never got released. And I think that was most probably when the panic started setting in that I've written an album, I've recorded an album, yet I still haven't put it out. I'm still, but again, I'm that person that just carries on. It will all

be fine. You know, it's going to be fine. And don't get me wrong. I had a lovely family unit and I wouldn't have lost that for anything in the world. Um, it's just as time went on, I think lost that for anything in the world um it's just as time went on I think that need to do what I do just to even if it wasn't on a big level even if it was just going into the studio and singing and writing songs that I could listen to in the car to remind myself of what I love anything yeah on any level I really did learn played a really big part in defining me yeah I mean I'm doing loads of nodding because I sort of I get so much about what you're saying makes sense to me and um I think a lot of it is just as you say like it's not about you're not thinking like chart stuff or anything it's literally just that thing that's yours and just to remind yourself you've got that side to you

because you need it to feel the full 360 version of yourself yeah absolutely and it's not about the fame um and of course earning a good living which you can do from this business is a massive bonus you know but I've also invested a lot of my own money and my own time and and taken nothing away from jobs and shows and just for my love of doing it you know like the the latest tour i went on i wasn't taking a penny that was costing me to do but i felt the need to do it and to invest in that yeah for a the people that had bought my album and supported me for those years and be for myself um so there isn't always a sinister picture behind why you do things. No, and actually I think it's brilliant, to be honest about that, because I've done that loads of times too.

And I mean, I remember doing, I paid for a whole tour one time years ago when it felt like everything was looking quite wobbly and I was like, I just need to do this. And I don't actually expect to make money from loads of projects I do. I feel like I just want to put another metre on the plank of me doing what I love before eventually I get to the end and I have to drop off into the sea. So you know the album that's my project I got when

I did my first album my own I was like well this if this is my gift to myself actually and yeah then I don't need to be answerable to anybody else either yeah and that was me yeah that was me with my last album and I could have gone a different route but I felt such the need to do this for me and write about what I wanted to write about and I think people can look on and make all their judgments but that was, I love the way you said that, that was a gift to me

because I remember saying to my accountant actually, okay, do you think I was kind of crazy doing that? And he went, no, I don't because I think you needed it. That's nice. And I think you needed it that's nice and I think that you have re-awoken something in you that just re-establishes how much you love doing what you do and how important to you it is and I was like yeah actually I can sleep easy knowing that I needed that yeah and I loved every single second it was like I can't even put it into words

the love of just getting back in the studio and writing and getting up on stage and you know it was an experience that I'm so pleased that I managed to do again 18 years on from the first time and I want to carry on yeah how exciting that? But also how bonkers to have that. Only two decades in the middle. But I guess you've been learning so much about yourself. Yeah. And what makes you tick. And also, maybe when you first stopped and had your first baby, it probably felt like a little bit of a relief, actually,

to have time when it's just family. Absolutely. And just time with your new bubba and not thinking about much else, actually. It's quite nice to put that to one side,'t it yeah and it was like that I think you've worked from a really young age also being in Eternal and then doing solo albums your life isn't your own in a really great way but you I mean a car would pick me up in the morning I would go to work and I always remember when I first sort of met Jamie and there'd be I don't know a birthday party or something that everybody would be going to and I would get out my piece of paper with my you know

diary on it with big writing and I'd go the 17th oh oh no I can't come I'm working I'm away I'm in Germany or I'm somewhere and you you think oh god I'm young and I'm missing out on so many social moments for me. But at the same time, you know, you're off working and doing what you love. And it's putting it all into perspective. And I would always go to work and I'd always prioritize that right up until I had Charlie. And then I said, I need to just take time out. But like you say say in this industry someone can come and fill your shoes very quickly

and you don't know if the audience is going to be there and I actually think as time went on I really believed an audience wouldn't be there anymore it's like I'd convinced myself that there would be nobody remotely interested well you can hide behind that a little bit can't you yeah and I think I did for a long time well so we're really encouraged to think like that there would be nobody remotely interested. Well, you can hide behind that a little bit, can't you? Yeah, yeah.

And I think I did for a long time. Well, so we're really encouraged to think like that. We're encouraged to think that we've only got the opportunity so long as every next step is being laid out in front of you. And I mean, I've had now, from where I'm standing now, I can say that a career is never just a straight up line. And there's always, I feel like there's been too many times to count where if it wasn't for me believing, okay, I know I'm going to do this, I'm going to do the next thing. I could have easily just stopped and done something else. Like, no one's going to, if I said, oh, I'm not putting out an album, I'm not going to have like people at my front door going, come on.

They go, oh, that's a shame. Well, thank you. All right, bye. You know? Never mind. mind yeah go well good luck with the next bit so I think it does come down to you and if that bit where you had your second baby and you'd made this record and then maybe at the time as well people didn't understand the significance of that they might not have brought it up after a little while you

know yeah it almost just got okay you're not going to release it. Like you say, no one was going, you really must release it. There's some real bangers on here, you know, you're mad. Everyone's just like, oh, okay. And then time goes and the more it goes, the more you get into this world that you're in. And the harder it is to then believe that you can do it again. And I think I just got on that path of not believing so can you see that now when you look back or were you aware of it at the time um I wasn't aware of it

at the time I think I just embedded myself in this I kind of just thought no one would be interested I think I just talked myself out of anybody ever caring about anything I ever did ever again um and it was only I suppose took something quite big to happen in my life to think I've got nothing more I've got nothing to lose anymore like I feel like I've kind of lost such a lot anyway that what's what's my dignity what's my musical dignity when I've lost all of this anyway so um yeah I think it took something sort of sad and big in my life to maybe give me the courage to go I'll just give it a go what's the worst that can happen and what is this what do you mean by the sad and big thing I think getting divorced um you know it's it took something quite heartbreaking yeah to and maybe

it took something he's not here listening to this no not here listening to me um it took something for me to maybe have to really look at myself to actually have the courage to find a way of making a new album and I suppose have something to write about and actually I think it I'd love to say it was all these opportunities just come flooding in and knocking on my door and it wasn't like that it was me that actually said okay I feel vulnerable enough to write and I feel that I've I've kind of taken such a personal hit with things that the worst thing that can happen is people don't like it and no one buys it and okay well I kind of can go with that because what what more can people say about me

that's actually pretty amazing to get to that point that's actually a real strength you know a lot of people would not have if they're feeling like that on the inside they wouldn't feel like okay I'll just go for it anyway there's a lot of I think there's so many things we can do in our lives that we can either hide behind and you know that give us a an excuse not to have done taking that leap actually yeah because that's always the hardest bit isn't it is okay finding out what the result was of those things yeah ventures um and it's sometimes if you know circumstances mean or something doesn't get released or something got changed there's a little bit of me that was a bit like a bit relieved like i didn't i didn't get to find out the ending of that story because it was probably going to be something that might have hurt me.

So actually taking the leap and releasing stuff, I think you should give yourself a big thumbs up for that, actually. It's a pretty big thing to do. I'm pleased I did it, and I think I learned as well that you can still be a really good mum and still, you know, it's's okay I think I told myself for so long that I can't do I can't have it all and now I realize that you can go away and you can work and you can be out of the house for a period of time without letting your kids down and it's

almost like I felt like you couldn't have both and I used to think well you can only have both if you're really famous and you're really big and you're going on massive tours where all of your family can come and actually no you can they're I mean I'm really lucky that my mum looks after the kids when I'm not here so I I've never had a nanny I've just had my mum and they've got a dad that's a real hands-on dad that can, you know, that can pick up the pieces when I'm not here and oversee everything. So, yeah, I realise it's OK.

I mean, don't get me wrong. For a while, I still got that real mum guilt thing. I think the mum guilt's gone. Oh, that's good. Yeah, I'm learning to not let the mum guilt embed. Well, actually, maybe a little bit of the reverse has happened. Maybe your boys, whether they're able to articulate it or not, they might have noticed a big shift in you, actually.

Yeah, I think so. And actually, what I've really learned, that they enjoy what I do. They actually are proud of it and enjoy it. Like, I come home the other night, and I very rarely put my kids on social media. They just, they don't want to be on it. And I, it's their choice. I'll never force them. And I was out having a bit of dinner with a girlfriend, and Bo rang me.

I was like, where are you? How long are you going to be? I was like, I'll be home in the next hour or so I'm sort of about 8 30 or something um he's like okay can I wait up for you I was like yeah of course school holidays no problem he's like can we do a TikTok when you get get in I was like what me and you he's like yeah can we do a TikTok and I need you to give me a shout out because he had created a TikTok account with his friends and obviously said to them oh my mum can get us followers so for the first time they had embraced something like that with their friends and it wasn't in a way that he wanted to be seen or be in the papers he just wanted to say

to his friends oh something I can do is to get us some more followers mum give me a shout out so I literally walked in. He had already learned what we had to do. And I'm just going, hang on, I don't know it. And he's like, don't worry. And I know that whenever I take a selfie or do a TikTok or anything, it takes me a good half an hour to get one I'm happy with.

You know, I am a 50 picture person. I mean, I am not first one goes at all. And then I'll go back in and look at it and go oh god I shouldn't have used that one I overthink everything so we did it once and he went right that's it post it I was like this is anxiety for me but I can't post the first one I need to redo but I went to bed that night thinking oh god my kids actually are embracing this little world that we live in and that it's okay and again I mean he's never done one since and he never will most probably want to be on my Instagram again um but yeah for those little five minutes of doing that with him it felt

like he really was cool with what we were and that he had embraced the fact that we could put something out there and it would get him some followers yeah and probably actually you know a lot gets made of um you know women where we have got if we know in the pop world where you know you put on your outfits and do the thing in videos and stuff but I honestly I don't think our kids care at all about any of it and I've made a real sort of joke once saying that when I released Stretch it was sort of I had a leotard and that on and that Charlie was like oh great um you know pray for Charlie from his mum's music videos you know but actually Charlie had said that to me in such jest and such mucking around but with a big smile on his face and I read so many articles

after that saying oh you've you know the amount of comments I got think of your children I'm thinking my kids are loving what I do like they come to all my shows when I was in the West End they sat there and and I think for the first time they experienced what it was like when you come out and you do your embow and the audience stand up. And Chas come in to me after and just said, well, mum, I kind of had no idea how good you were. And it absolutely melted my heart. I was like, there is not a person in this world that could appreciate what I've done more than what you've just said to me like that means everything he said mum I didn't know how good you were and I just thought yeah I'm proud of my boys and I'm so pleased that they are experiencing

seeing me doing what I love rather than being at home being kind of half of myself so it was a big moment no that's really that's that blows me away a little bit actually yeah what an amazing thing and it's also interesting you describe as you know the other the other alternative being half of yourself do you I mean could you ever picture what what would have happened if you hadn't had this sort of I don't know I think you described before as having the lights put back on like if you haven't had that can you imagine do you think you would have just trundled along and I think I would have, I think you described it before as having the lights put back on. Like, if you hadn't had that, can you imagine, do you think you would have just trundled along? I think I would have done.

I think I would have just carried going along until something gave. You know, just something somewhere gave. I think, you know, I wasn't unhappy. I had a really lovely life and I have my boys and that. I think, yeah, it was just having your light switched back on and doing something you love and I think I've learned you should be able to have it all you should be able to have all elements of your life working together there's no reason why you shouldn't have that it's about this right network the right people around you yeah um having the right people supporting you and actually not listening to the negatives which

there was always going to be negatives no matter what you choose to do you know we we see them we read about them and we're the first people to give them you know i i'm no saint i sit there and find myself judging someone and i really pull myself back. One thing I will never do is judge anybody. And if I ever find myself judging, I really slap myself because I think I've been that person that's been heavily judged and I'll never judge again. Yeah, you never actually know what's going on with people at home at all. And you can't, you know, I just live and let live.

And I don't know, there comes a time that I really do feel that, and I feel like as women we're getting there, that we're learning to support other women. And I always remember being so grateful when I was having a tough time, when certain people would speak out. And I remember sitting at home just watching TV, and there's a whole discussion on an ITV morning show, I think it was Loose Women,

and everyone was discussing my life. And I remember Denise Van Outen going, you know what, I think it's great Lou's doing what makes her happy and I really support her. And I just think no one knows what goes on and no one should ever judge. And I remember that day day just hearing her say that gave me such a pickup you know like just something people the and I remember speaking to her after

and saying thank you it made a difference I think people at home that don't know what we do and how this is think that we just don't care about those things but yeah well you're also even if you have watched the program where they're discussing your life or read the article or comment you're supposed to pretend you didn't see it yeah i think that there's always people feel like there's no way that those things are going to get you're going to see it you're going to experience it and you'd actually you probably see and remember pretty much everything you know like there's a firebox file and everyone's head of all the i always say i can read a hundred really good comments but the bad one stays with me all day and i forget all the good ones all the good ones i go no no whatever and then the bad one you go oh god you know it's

such a weird and but now it hits everyone it doesn't just hit people that are in the public eye. It hits anybody. It hits somebody, you know, just at schools. Everyone comments. And it's kind of a tough existence we live in. It is because also the thing about social media stuff is that because of the nature of it, when people put the comment for whatever it is they're saying for that second, they've got your ear. And that never used to exist in the same way. And you've kind of got to remember that even if 10 people post something,

there's still only 10 people. Yeah, I know. That's like, I know, in the scheme of, you know, I get a couple of bad comments. I'm like,

oh, go on, then someone will go to me. There's like 56 million people in this country. I think you're okay. I'm like, right, okay,

get a grip, Louise, get a grip. But I worry about the kids because my youngest is on private, obviously, you're okay i'm like right okay get a grip louise get a grip but i worry about the kids because my youngest is on private obviously but my oldest is at an age now where he makes a decision he wants to be on open on social media i sometimes find myself checking his messages because i panic that people might say unkind things to him um but then he says to me oh mom i just mute them or i

take no notice of them like he's so aware of aware of it that it's so watered down. Well, remember, he's the age pretty much that you're getting back to, 17, you know, that invincible, I actually know best thing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he's not at all bothered by it. He's like, oh, whatever. But, yeah, I think it's really hard for youngsters out there. You know, it's only going to go one way, and that's getting more and more intrusive into your life.

Yeah. On every level. I know. But I suppose also the pros are you get to, you know, we've had amazing pop stars that have come from posting things on social and on YouTube and all of those things. So it's sort of 50-50, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely.

And also the world they're in. And, you know, they'll be very okay with tech and, you know things. So it's sort of 50-50, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. And also the world they're in. And if that's, you know, they'll be very fair with tech and, you know, just navigate it. Because if that's the world you know, you just get on with it, don't you? It's the world you know, yeah. Yeah.

I'm quite amazed and impressed with both of us that we've got to, I don't know how long we've been talking, we haven't actually talked about what I can only call at home the dancing thing I did. Oh, the dancing thing I did, yeah. Because I can't, I can't I don't it feels

alien to me to call it its full name and also it was I think so like best of times worst of times traumatic yeah I know it's distance myself from it it's such a I mean I am one of those people that a lot of people I feel go back and watch it and can completely sort of put themselves back in the circle of it I think I've removed myself quite heavily from it yeah um and again for me that program is very bittersweet I I loved learning to dance and I loved the fire it gave me and it reminded me of I love performing so much but I actually think the circus that comes with it is a really horrible machine. Yeah.

And it's, I don't know, I feel, I don't know, I don't like the way it just gets completely taken out of context and everything becomes, I think we spoke. We did. Actually, when I was doing it. And I didn't, I don't think we said a lot, but I remember you looking at me in a way of, it's tough. Yeah. It's tough. Yeah.

It's tough. And, you know, there's a lot that's put on, I'll call it as no one's, strictly, for, you know, there's a lot that's put on it in terms of, like, its ability to change people's lives and all this. But actually, what I've always thought, I don't know if it's true or not, but I think actually it's the bit before that. It's what makes you decide now's the time to do something like that. Yeah. Because I'm like, if you're, everything's going really well and you're really happy, you don't suddenly say, I'm going to put everything in my life on hold for three months

and do something really terrifying. Like, something needs a shake-up. Yeah. And you don't always know what that is until you're doing it. And I think I'd said no a lot of times to doing it and I think I I'd said no a lot of times to doing it and um and I think if I'm really honest which most probably haven't ever been I think I was scared that my time was running out to ever do what I love again I think it was as I was scared that I was getting older and and if I didn't do something soon that would maybe reignite some opportunity of me getting out there and doing what I love I was going to lose that opportunity altogether

and then it works in the sense where it it does open up opportunities but yeah it's also a really weird way of doing it really weird really weird way of doing it and um I think I think a lot needs to be looked at in in the the big kind of this big thing that sits above you whilst you're doing it and I'm the most anyone that knows me knows that I'm the most normal you know kind of I've been doing this a long time like yourself you you just don't get affected by things I can kind of just I was like I'll be the last person that gets suckered into this weirdness that's exactly how I felt it's just not me I don't get suckered into stuff I've just done it been there got the t-shirt but it sucks you in and you end up being in this kind of bubble

of not wanting to get kicked out. I used to think, I'll be fine. As long as I don't get kicked out week one, I'll be fine. I'll just do it. I'll be on national TV a few weeks and then I'll go home and it will all be fine. And you find yourself five, six weeks in going, I don't want to go home.

I don't want to get kicked out. I don't want to be in the bottom two. And it becomes a huge deal. Yeah, and it takes a huge deal yeah and it takes over every brain cell because you just can't believe you're being filmed all the time when you're rehearsing and you're learning a new thing and I mean again this is like a theory of mine because I've sort of had to try and analyze it because it's so bizarre and like you I was like there's no way I'm going to become like the sort of cliched contestant.

But even I felt all the emotions, but also could understand it all much, much better when you're on the inside of it. And it just, I didn't feel like I had any space for anything else while it was happening, which was really tough for my family. Yeah. And same for mine. And you don't think... I don't have any qualms about saying that. I mean, he loved seeing me dance and enjoyed that, but he really struggled with the nature of the programme, which is understandable.

Oh, I would be the same. Absolutely. I totally understand. I remember in week three, they made me do a samba, which, to those not in the know, is like one of the hardest Latin American dances. I think I did that right at the end, i was useless at that it's pretty it's

built up and down i don't know if i did the samba or the other one i still forget yeah i don't know which one of them i did one of them once and um they it was love week was the theme and they made they decided that the appropriate choice would be my wedding dance. Oh, yeah. It's kind of hard for Richard. He came along to rehearsal and said to Brendan, is there any way you can do this dance without touching my wife? I know, it's such a weird thing. It's such a weird thing.

And there is obviously the way it's spun and the way the music. And what people don't see is behind the scenes. You're never in rehearsals on your own. There's always a lot of... I mean, I only ever did, till the last two weeks, ten till six. I never stayed later than six. Yeah, I was the same, actually. I was very...

Yeah, you need your evenings. Yeah, and I had two kids at home. And I'd need your Sundays, too. Yeah, until... I never worked on a Sunday. And the last two weeks when you're doing two three dances I did stay later but until the last two weeks I never stayed there beyond six o'clock um and I used to get home in time to have dinner and at the time you know it's still bath time and stuff like that um but yeah it's um it's a weird program. And in some ways, I sort of love the fact it ignited something

that reminded me so much of my passion, but I didn't enjoy... I never thought I would be suckered into something that is so on me. Yeah. That is so not my world. I'm so not attention-hungry. I'm so, attention hungry um I'm so I'm so like get get it I genuinely do what I do because I genuinely love it and it it comes from such a deep place performing that that the outside of what goes on and the circus around it is actually something that I would never want to put myself or my family through again. Yeah, I don't think you get away with doing that more than once in your life anyway.

No, it's very bizarre. Not many people are honest about it, actually. It's a very bizarre sort of set up. And it's great, but it comes with its kind of weird, I don't know, it's such a weird bubble. No, I'm totally with you, actually. I mean, I think, because people say to me, oh, would you do it again if you knew what you know now? And I'm like, well, it really helped me

lose a lot more inhibitions on stage. I think I've become a better performer, actually. And it helped me embrace... Helped me lose a stone. Oh, it was really positive. Oh, yeah. For me, I always felt like my dancer board was just on loan I was like I've got this for like a couple of months oh it goes so quick doesn't it I went on holiday straight after I have never in 18 years

stood on a beach in just a bikini I am that person that wears something and I just get real which is crazy considering I made half of my career from like being an FHM in a bikini but in real life that was not me I was like yeah I'm wearing the bikini on the beach it's the first time I'd felt really good about myself in so long yeah in my body but mentally yeah it was the fear of losing the passion and the fire of what you've just found again is so scary. Yeah. I think for me it was the fear of it's all going to end and I wouldn't be able to sing and dance anymore.

Well, in that case, it's good that we always had that outlet of actually knowing that that's something you cared about because I always felt like it must be strange if you do that programme and then that's not part of your day job at all. Yeah. You know, the spark and stuff. I mean, I felt like, I was like, okay, I'm going to cherry pick

the things out of this that I've really loved. Yeah. And take them with me. Yeah. And leave a lot of the other stuff behind. Yeah, and I feel I did the same, actually. Yeah. I feel that I,

what that did for me was, it reminded me I was a good performer. Yeah. And if that sounds arrogant, I don't mean that in an arrogant way, but it reminds... I think you're allowed to say that that is what you do and it is what you're good at.

It's your talent. It reminded me that's all I know, actually. And I think I had dampened down how important it was to me. And it's not, our job isn't a job that you have to stop doing because you're a sportsman and you physically can't do it anymore. Or you're, you know, that job is no longer there. It comes from us.

The drive has to come from us. We have to chase it. We have to work hard for it. We have to put the time in to make it achieve like you say if we don't want to release another album no one's going to be knocking on the door going um we're really all waiting for an album we have to make that happen and I think for all the negatives to do with that program and there are many the positive was it reminded me that I'm really good at what I do and I might not be everyone's

cup of tea and I don't expect to be nor do I want to be but for the people whose cup of tea I am I'm good at what I do yeah yeah no but it's also but it's a lot of it's about joy as well I used to love seeing you know the effects of the dancing and the music and everything on the people in the studio and all that I think it is there's a lot of joy in amongst that and learning new talents is good as well learning new skills you know I always remembered like you know Jason who was the creative director used to say if you're doing I was doing the Argentine tango and and that week Jamie and the kids had come actually to you know they do a day rehearsal and um they pulled me to one side said it's looking great

it's looking great but can you can you try and stop smiling it's like a sexy sort of mysterious dance and when I watch it back I'm just smiling from ear to ear like there's nothing sexy about like my body's doing all it's meant to do but my face is like yay just like the happiest person in the world just smiling in my own little world of oh i'm doing the argentine tango this is so much fun um and then sort of looking back and thinking yeah it would have been so much better if i could have just pouted for a moment like even a second of the dance like so yeah after that they realized that things like the deadwood stage where i was playing sort of doing calamity jane was much more up my street because you're allowed to completely grin all the way through.

You know what? They can teach you the moves, but they shouldn't dictate what's on your face. I know. Well, I think they were trying to get the moment and I'm like, you're doing a lot of smiling through this dance, Louise. It's meant to be like passion. And I'm like, I'm sorry.

Sorry, I'll try not to smile. Yeah. In the end, they would just give her the smiling one and she's going to smile anyway. Yeah, no, that's nice. I think that's not to smile yeah in the end they would like just give her the smiling one she's gonna smile anyway yeah no that's nice I think that's good to smile it is a joyous thing when you're dancing actually yeah it does release like all the endorphins and it feels good the music everything I always loved the live music yeah oh my god the band is so incredible you you just wish it could come without without the three month kind of yeah time span and the intensity intensity I think for me and also there was um I struggle with the fact that there was such a boundary around it

that you couldn't just go okay I'm gonna have my family and my dressing room and this kind of thing oh I found that really hard and I think actually if I could have done that I think it would have made everyone else's lives a bit easier because they're part of it with you yeah well I think that makes and and that's what I you know my whole career I've um I'm so close to all my family not just my kids and at the time Jane um my my brothers. And when I was in the band, we had, she had a rule where family couldn't come on tour and stuff like that with you, which was part of the reason I left Eternal in the beginning

because I just was so homesick and lonely. So when I went and did my own albums and toured, it was a free-for-all for all my family. You know, there was always space on that tour bus for my mom my brothers and even I always looked forward to being able to do it as a mum yeah my kids being such priority throughout that and actually now what's so lovely is my whole team know that when we go on tour and we got the bus if I want the kids on there their priority there's you know

it's so nice being the boss for so many years I wasn't the boss and then you look back and you think what were they worried about with letting my family come on I know yeah it's ridiculous yeah it just it just makes your life it like you said I think it evens everything out and I think actually I really agree with you to have just been able to have had everybody around I mean they used to always come to rehearsals I always had someone in rehearsals, but then it was tough because they were always filming. But in my weekdays, like, if I could have the boys up there,

I used to have friends. My mum used to come all the time. She was the biggest fan of the programme. But, yeah, it's a weird old bubble. It is. Can your mum still watch it now, or is she, like, has she OD'd on it? Yeah, she's OD'd on it. Yeah, yeah, that's happened to my friends as well bubble it is can your mom still watch it now or is she like is she od'd on it yeah she's od'd yeah yeah that's happened to my friends as well they're like you ruined it for me yeah it's too much yeah yeah i have to say i think they've all od'd on it

yeah yeah my family too i didn't even know the theme tune when i started i hadn't watched it no i i was an expat to go i like the singing singing, you know? But I just know I do try and think everything for a reason. Yeah, I agree with that, actually. I do. I try and believe that. No, I think you've got to be like that because that is the life you led and that is what happened and you've just got to be at peace with those things

because I think actually in a weird way, motherhood's quite good like that because when things happen, there just no is no alternate life you were leading. you're just dealing with the here and now and reacting in the moment yeah um you realize quite quickly don't you that you don't really have a lot of control over you know who your baby is what they need from you actually yeah and every and every situation and relationship's so different and takes a different part of you yeah and kind of really weird now because my album's done

and I'm obviously not in the West End anymore because it's all shut and it's the next chapter again. Yeah. I'm starting again. Yeah, yeah. But you know how to do that now. I don't know. Slightly nervous.

Yeah, I'd be good. Yeah. Do you ever meet women that you think are you pre the bit where you felt like the full whole year again do you meet women and think sooner or later you might have something significant happen in your life that kind of yeah I think I do and I think I've got I feel that in the last year or so women really enjoy talking to me about things I feel like even when they don't realize it I feel like I end up having conversations that I I think you've come to me because I feel that you think I can relate to

all of this because it's such a weird I don't know it's such a weird the last years have been such a weird time for me um I feel that people feel that I've most probably been through any emotion that they could possibly be feeling. I'm a good soundboard. And actually, I'm launching it today, actually. It's called Lou Loves, which is a website. Ah, exciting. Yeah, and it's kind of about fashion,

because I love my fashion, but in a much deeper way. I don't want to be an influencer and I'm not trying to be but a destination where I make life just a bit you know I can whether it be you're looking for the perfect summer dress or actually you want to learn about meditating and I talk about the fact that I don't do it the conventional way, but these are ways of doing it. And I don't know, just a little bit of a girly destination, a bit more of a magazine-y vibe. For me, I like visuals.

I work on visuals. And by having the website, I can still relate to lots of visuals going in there. It's where I'm comfortable, what I like to do creatively, rather than maybe what we're doing now. would struggle with yeah if I was hosting where by putting it all down on a page with Lou Loves it becomes a visual yeah thing that people can visit I can see that that's a nice thing to do yeah um I was gonna say I usually ask us creative mothers how motherhood has influenced their creativity. But I guess with you, it's a slightly different thing.

Because if you hadn't had your babies when you did, you probably would have kept on with your performing longer in that bit. But in a way, what's happened now is so much more significant, I think, because you've gone on that journey. There might have been things about how you were when you were younger and now is so much more significant I think because you've gone on that journey there might have been things about how you were when you're younger that led you into that situation where you did feel like you shut things down because you didn't have that confidence about yourself yeah yeah because of the route you've taken you're probably like more bold and confident

than you've been if you hadn't had all that does that make sense yeah it does I've done kind of like a 360 yeah I know I was doing a lot of drawing no I agree with you I've done a 360 and I think that I feel that I'm a better singer and better performer today than what I was even back when I was fearless because this time round I appreciate every last second of it yeah where I think first think first time round, I knew no different. It was just what had been handed to me. Even though I worked hard, I had been handed the opportunities time and time again to go and play those big party in the parks, have top five records, albums.

This time round, I know how hard it is to get it and I know how hard it is to keep it. Yeah. So I think whenever I perform now or I sing or I do any shows it comes with such an honesty and such an appreciation yeah I've learned to block everything out and this is my moment and not feel bad about that well that's really special I mean I don't think everybody gets to say that yeah a whole lifetime anyway so that's yeah that's an amazing thing and you've you're still very young to reach that point actually oh I don't know no you are I think a lot of people

yeah and don't get me wrong I'm by no means in this amazing place like I'd be absolutely lying if I said I was I still have so many struggles on a daily basis because I don't know if someone ever gets over getting divorced after 20 years and not working for a long period of time and regaining your ability to get back up on stage and do all of that so I don't think that ever will get easier. Not for someone like me, because I think my biggest problem in life is my heart is most probably too big.

You know, like I sometimes wish I could be a cow because I think it'd be so much easier to not feel so much. I wish I didn't feel everything for everyone. Like, I don't want to feel hurt I don't want to feel worried about everyone I know and love I don't want to constantly worry that something might have a negative effect like even doing chatting like with you today in the back of my mind is I hope I've said nothing that could cause anyone any hurt or upset i don't want to feel like you haven't but i

know but i um this is very much about you i don't i didn't want us to have a conversation that was trying to know because but you know you just naturally when you're that person you yes you you carry that yeah and you're a people pleaser you want to make people feel good yeah and i i think i'm don't know i just uh i'm just really appreciative that I'm still standing. Yeah, more than that, more than that. And also I can see even from, you know, I don't know you really well, but I can see from my vantage point how protected you are by the fact that your boys and your mum are here. I can see that you've got loads of people that they know that you're very open with your heart

and they're probably there like. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah,'re very open with your heart and they're probably there like oh yeah yeah yeah yeah far too open with my heart I mean I don't think I'm ever going to be able to have a boyfriend because first of all the 19 I mean the 16 year old is kind of like well they've got you know how they're going to get past me I'll never know I mean hello when I still sometimes I go how would you feel if I went on a date I don't even want to talk about it oh okay it's not looking positive for me when it comes to love life you know what you're allowed to be selfish with that yeah they don't get they don't get to dictate that they can tell you to get more bananas they can't tell you not to go on dates I know still haven't been on a datedown is not helping me in the dating world.

I don't think there's a lot of dates happening right now. I was thinking about that. Yeah. Or people who just decided to move in and then suddenly it's like, whoop. Oh, God, that's serious, right? You can't go anywhere. Or people that thought it would be a good idea that you'd only be in lockdown for a few weeks. Yeah.

And you'd be like, well, why don't we just stay together six months on? You're still there. You're still in lockdown thinking, do I even know you that well? Yeah, exactly. No, I was very lucky in lockdown with the kids,

my mum, and actually Lewis, who works with me, he had come down from up north and he was working down in London and I said to him, look, just stay with me until you find somewhere to stay

and you get the jobs and that that you want coming in anyway lockdown happened so um it was actually really nice because there was a nice group of us like basically every chair around this table was taken at all times and as you can see I'm quite a people person so um yeah I need I need people around me yeah no that's lovely I quite like the idea of that not good on my own. No, me neither, actually. But I'm quite envious of your 10 minutes in the morning up there. I quite like that for myself.

I don't really get... Yeah, but you've still got a young one, so you don't really get that. I do not. Oh, you mentioned your book. What's your book? Is it an autobiography thing? No, it's...

I mean, it's based... So they asked me to do a book, which, if I'm honest, I didn't have any desire to ever do. It wasn't something like a passion of mine. I said, I don't want to do a book which I if I'm honest I didn't have any desire to ever do it wasn't something like a passion of mine um I said I don't want to do an autobiography or anything like that and they said well what books do you love I said one of my favorite books is called what I know for sure by Oprah Winfrey and I often pick that up in the day and sometimes just read a couple of pages just to re-ground myself and to just re-establish where I'm at and they said well would you not be willing to do something like that I thought actually yeah

because I feel like I could say things that could really help people oh that's lovely um so it's kind of like about experiences and maybe emotions and things I've gone through but what I've taken from them so what I know for sure is that you will overcome those because if I can you can too so it's it's a bit for people that maybe are looking for some just some help along the way yeah well who isn't really yeah yeah so it's kind of a positive yeah but I suppose to talk about things that are quite personal but not in a way of an autobiography much more in a yeah like a collection of yeah it's called you've got this because I used to always say my mum would always say to me or I'd say to my mum if I was having a bad day she'd be

like babe you've got this come on you've got this. Come on, you've got this. I'm like, OK, I've got this. Have I got this? I don't think I've got this. OK, I've got this. Yeah, so it's been a really nice... It's been quite cathartic. It kind of feels like writing the album all over again. That sounds lovely.

And actually, I think there'll be a lot of people this year in particular that will be feeling like, let me take stock of where I'm at and what's important to me and what isn't. Because we've all been forced to stop and think. And I think there will be things that change because of how we're living our lives at the moment that you don't want to change back. Exactly. And in the beginning, I wasn't sure what I was going to write about. And then it just all happened. And it all just kept coming out.

and then it just all happened and it all just kept coming out and there were so many points and so many ups and downs personal career everything where you know and it's not about anyone else it's not a big spill or it's just about overcoming things that are tough and and also really appreciating all the great things and being okay about celebrating them as well yeah well I think I think it sounds like you've really given yourself a lot of space just to be your own person and be comfortable in your own company and your own thoughts yeah I said again I do think that there's a lot of people that never really get that chance that that they never do that thing of stepping back for themselves yeah it's actually a really powerful thing yeah and I think I think you're a lot stronger and more inspiring than you give yourself that they never do that thing of stepping back for themselves. Yeah. It's actually a really powerful thing.

Yeah. And I think you're a lot stronger and more inspiring than you give yourself credit for. Thank you. Well done. Thank you. Impressive. So that was my conversation with Louise. And don't you agree?

I think it takes genuine bravery, actually, to stand up and say, I really want this for myself, even though you're being criticised. And I think she has given herself the space to be her own person and to find herself and have self-confidence and self-worth that's away from, you know, you obviously feel a lot of self-worth in your role as a mother, but we need something, it's okay to be a little bit selfish, actually, especially if it's something that you know is like, it makes your soul sing when you're doing it. So I'm really impressed with Louise, I think she's a lot tougher and stronger than maybe she even gives herself credit for. And maybe that might inspire some of us to think if it's something that makes you happy and you

know that when you go to bed at night you know that what you're doing you're good at it and it brings you joy then you know you just got to kind of accept the fact that some people are not going to understand your motivation but so long as you do it means you can sleep well at night you know there's always going to be someone to criticize what we're up to anyway it's so easy to judge and actually I remember even when I started this series the spinning plate series I said I was going to be interviewing working mothers about how they make it work and somebody in the comments put oh I hope it's not you know all women that just say they're now teetotal and they don't do yoga every day and that's how they cope oh couldn't stand that I really thought about that

comment because I thought if you're someone in order to feel good about yourself and keep some kind of sanity while you're raising your kids has decided to give up alcohol and do really bendy exercise, I'm like, fair play to you. I really think that. I'm like, whatever it is we're doing to cope and to feel good about ourselves and to feel strong, just like, let's really not rip shreds out of each other because we're all just finding our own way, actually. No judgment here. And if I've learned anything from these conversations,

it's that you don't really know what's going on with people's lives unless you really stop to listen to what they say. We don't always do that. It's quite a judgmental society sometimes, even on Instagram life, you know. Anyway, I'm waffling on a little bit, but I do believe in this stuff. I think we've got to be giving each other big thumbs up, really, rather than trying to work out where someone's doing a hack that we think is a bit naff or superficial or whatever. God, I really am

waffling. I'm boring myself. I'm going to go. See you next week. Thanks so much again for your time. Thanks for all your feedback. A little fledgling podcast like mine really appreciates it. So thank you very much. And I will see you next week. I haven't actually decided which order I'm going to release them in, which is why I'm not telling you who I'm going to do next week. I'm going to have a little thing, but it will be someone that I think is fabulous, of course. All right, just like you. All right, lots of love.

See you soon. Thank you.