Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 50: Stacey Cordery

Episode Date: November 23, 2021

While I was preparing for my Children in Need 24 hour Danceathon, I was lucky enough to visit Bonny Downs community centre in Newham, East London which receives some funding from Children in Need to help local children attend their 3 week summer camp. I met some amazing people there and one of them was the powerhouse that is Stacey Cordery, a woman so full of energy, positivity and kindness that you can't help but have some of it rub off on you. So I thought, who better to speak to, for the last in this series of Spinning Plates?Stacey is a mum of two who volunteered at Bonny Downs well before she was a mum, then used it herself while on maternity leave with her second baby, before eventually becoming one of the directors there, looking after children and families who use the centre.She loves the work she does there and the wide range of people she works with. We talked about her journey from leaving school as soon as she could to avoid exams, and working with diamonds in Hatton Garden in London, before motherhood and Bonny Downs became the bedrock of her life. We discussed how to help people while avoiding 'poverty porn', we touched on some of the misconceptions people have about refugees and immigrants, and we talked about the problem of bringing up your family in a country where you are not officially allowed to work. In amongst all of this serious talk though, runs Stacey's joyful nature and her love of a cup of tea and a chat.Donate to Sophie's 24 hour kitchen disco here: https://donate.bbcchildreninneed.co.uk/kitchendisco Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hello my darling people. I speak to you from the past. It's Sunday, Sunday the 21st of November. And I'm walking across the windy green with Jessie and Ray. We're off to the cinema, aren't we guys?

Yeah. We're going to go and see... We're going to see Ghostbusters. We're going to see Ghostbusters. That should be cool. It's a new movie. It is a new movie. Yeah, it should be fun.

Yeah, we're not seeing the old one, although that's brilliant. It's a new movie. It is a new movie, yeah. It should be fun. Yeah, we're not seeing the old one, although that's brilliant. And I greet you at the beginning of, oh my goodness, my 50th podcast.

50! That's absolutely loads. So, so proud and chuffed. What a brilliant thing. Thank you so much for giving me the space to do it. You know how much I loved in this. Yes, Jess? I can literally see a kid by himself on his bike really yeah he's probably got a parent with him somewhere darling um okay yeah he has actually i can see who this he's with um he does he does just anyway um

no he does okay jess i see where he's the people he's with so the people walking across the green that way. This has been a pretty amazing week. So on Tuesday morning at half past nine, I started my BBC Children in Need 24-hour kitchen disco dance-a-thon. And I'm not going to lie, I was really nervous before I started. Oh, that's the train. Sorry, Richard. He hates it when I record these things outside where it's all noisy. Yeah, I was so, so nervous.

I just thought, what if I'm not in the right mood? And I had a bit of a cold, which I know is boring, and I know doesn't stop play for anyone. But it was just kind of inconvenient, because I felt all snivelly and throaty. But anyway, what an amazing thing. Literally no complaints from me. I felt very lucky, actually, to have that opportunity and so much support and love. You know, just to be able to be part of such a big fundraiser.

I've never done anything on that scale before in my entire life. And I honestly wasn't really sure how I was going to feel. It's quite abstract, isn't it, the idea of doing anything for 24 hours with no sleep. But I'm so happy I got to do it dancing. And I kept my love affair with the music and the dance all the way through. So that's good. I obviously genuinely like it. That's a relief.

And I had guests come and join me. My brother came with his girlfriend at like 1.30 in the morning. My friend Nerys, my friend Laura, and my friend Nicky was with me a lot of it. Richard stayed for the entire thing, which was incredible. Why did you have the thing on your wrist? Yeah, Ray's still got his wrist burned, haven't you, Ray, from coming on to meet me at the end?

You guys were with me at the end. What did you think of Mummy's dancing? Thanks. Thanks, Jess. What did you think, Ray? It was okay. I think that's a comment probably on the quality of my dancing, which I totally understand. Anyway, yeah, I'm thrilled it all went well and very proud I got to do it. Mummy, this man is doing my dancing better than yours. Sorry? My dancing better than yours. Oh, Jessie, that was never in dispute. It's funny, we just walked past the charity shop

and they've got some of my old dresses in the window and I always feel like that's a special compliment. Like, thank you, guys. Glad you like what I gave you. Great. I know, advent calendars. So anyway, if you donated, if you sent me a message, if you tuned in for two seconds,

if you supported the dance on any which way, I promise I felt the love. And the last count, I believe the fundraiser has done over 1.3 million, which is absolutely insane. How generous are folk? And that's on top of Wayne Wynne Evans' incredible 3.6 million for Children in Need from his drum-a-thon. So, you know, people have dug very deep

because that's two really big things, and I'm really, yes, thank you so much. Just grateful, really. And I can tell you it's gone to a very good place, your money. And that brings me to today's guest she's stacy who is the project lead at a place called bonnie downs a community center that i visited it receives children in need fundraising and she is exactly the right person to speak to you about all of the above she's brilliant woman really dynamic You know when you meet someone only briefly and they're really charismatic

and clearly smart and forward-looking, positive, whatever. Look at the traffic. So it was an absolute pleasure to invite her over to chat. And now I will share that with you. So we're going to talk you all through, I suppose, living with poverty, we're going to talk you all through um I suppose living with poverty essentially is a running thread because Newham where Bonnie Downs Community Centre is is the second poorest borough in the UK

so it's a place that has food banks has lots of support for the community in any which way whether it be how to you know know the legal process of being an asylum seeker, being an immigrant, getting work, getting access to benefits. You're here for yourself. And I can only apologize for the bit at the beginning where my brain was... Basically, we recorded this on Thursday, so the day after I'd done the dance-a-thon, my brain not functioning quite. It was, like like definitely below par but Stacey

was brilliant and informative and yeah this is actually the right person I'm very very happy that she came and said yes and spoke to me so if you have supported children in need you're to hear about what your money's doing at one of the projects it funds. And if you haven't, it's still really good as an eye-opener to how so many people in this country are living. We're a first-world country, but, you know, there's lots of stuff not to be proud of and lots of work to be done. Anyway, I will see you on the other side, over to the far more articulate Stacey.

Lots of love. See you in a bit. It's really good to see you and thank you so much for coming to speak to me. I had the idea to invite you to do the podcast actually when I met you. And then obviously I asked you a couple of days later. So I'm just really chuffed. And it's nice to see you again. How are you? Yeah, I'm good. I mean, honestly, you're thanking me. I should be thanking you after your amazing dance of fun that you only finished yesterday. I'm just sitting here worried that you had enough time to sleep.

And yeah, well, I've already told you, so i feel like i might as well put it on on recording yeah i've just i thought i was really doing until about sort of 20 minutes ago when we were chatting and um talking about kids and this morning and i i i'd promised uh the children i take them to school i don't know about your lot but mine get very keen especially my nine-year-old and six-year-old they always want to know are you putting us to bed I'd take them to school. I don't know about your lot, but mine get very keen, especially my nine-year-old and six-year-old. They always want to know, are you putting us to bed or are you taking us to school? Those are the two bookends of the day. So I have to prep them because I'm on tour a bit at the moment as well.

I've been missing bits of that. So I said to them, so long as I can walk after dancing, I'll take you to school on the Thursday morning. Got up this morning, my alarm went off at 6.45, dealt with the 12-year-old, all fine, next two down, got him ready, walked him to school. So I did like an hour of walking, came back, I was like, yes, I am firing on horse cylinders, chatting to you.

And I realised my 17-year-old, I'd forgotten to wake him. So I've just woken him up now. Hopefully he'll come down in a minute. So I've got to write an email to say to the school that I forgot that. So maybe I'm not coping quite as well as I thought. As we said, you've got a pretty valid excuse, I think, for dropping the ball slightly. Yeah, that's definitely what I've done.

But you know, what's really funny about the fundraiser, and I totally didn't, I underestimated this was going to happen hugely. Because when you're prepping for something, I mean, I've never done anything endurance endurance like at all in my whole life and um so when I was preparing for the dance athon I was thinking a lot about me and how my body would fare and how my mind would fare and what songs would be playing and how I'd feel at this point and actually what was really sort of interesting and extraordinary and I'm sure like people who've done fundraising would completely resonate with them because the more my battery ran out the more I started thinking more

about the reason why I was doing it and honestly you and the people I met at Bonnie Downs they were like right here in my like I could see you on my peripheral vision and there was a point at about 6 30 in the morning so I still had three hours to go but you know the finish line was sort of you know somewhere in the distance and um I went live to BBC breakfast and they showed me like a little montage of everything that'd been happening in the 21 hours and I started to feel a bit weepy and then I started telling them about coming to see you actually on there and I was thinking about the woman that I was speaking to and you'll have to remind me her name but she was the lady that was the asylum seeker with the three. Larifa. Larifa yeah so can you tell me a little bit about Larifa and what the conversation I had with her because I was I

thought she really she really stayed with me. Oh gosh yeah Larifa is just such an incredible woman I mean when I think of kind of resilience and determination I just think of Larifa she's she's incredible so the reason why I thought of Larifa and why I wanted you to tell me a bit about her was because for me she summed up the significance of Bonnie Downs which is the community centre that you're part of in Newham and I thought the way that she, the significance of, that's so basically, I'm sorry, my words were coming out in the wrong order,

but the fundraising for Children in Need, Bonnie Dance is one of the projects that receives the fundraising. And when you hear about a community centre, it's actually quite easy to just think of it as terms of, oh, that's lovely that they have, you know,

certain things for the community that are going to help people on their way. But you don't really think of it as terms of oh that's lovely that they have you know certain things for the community that are going to help people on their way but you don't really think of it as encapsulating so much emotion and significance of people yeah so when larifa was talking about her journey as a asylum seeker um she was worried about um her teenage daughter well i suppose at the time maybe she wasn't teenage but yeah the fact that there was a sort of FGM possibility on the horizon for her daughter so she finds herself now in in London in the second poorest borough in the country with three young children so I thought yeah if you could tell me your side of her story I suppose yeah of course so I think you've just kind of touched on it a little bit so up up on your downs. So you're right. We offer some real practical support.

But for us, it's so much more than that. And funny enough, the best way for me to describe it is we actually had, so you met most of the team when you came to see us. So you met Andrew and Carla and Pet. And we've just had another wonderful local woman Justina join us and she joined on Monday so we had a team meeting and we're just talking a little bit about the project and you know one of the things that we spoke about was how love needs to almost be the vein that runs through the heart of the project really um because if you've if you can't

kind of offer that care and that welcome um then the practical stuff just turns you into a bit of a distribution center you see what i mean so um and i think for you know for larifa that's what she needed she needed like real sisterhood around her she needed people to just really be able to listen to her you know to sit to like hold her hand really just let her be able to just chat through all of the challenges um all of the things she was really worried about and as well as us being like okay well let's think about some of the practical bits we can do. It was just about being there as that support really. Yeah.

And especially when she is so far from home. And so I think just being able to just be sisters, be friends, be just, yeah. I mean, she spoke so beautifully about us. I was just blown away she said you were angels I know right and that it was just like no you're an angel to us just like the fact that you're willing to come and let us share life with you and be part of your life um I mean she's incredible she's doing an amazing job I mean a single mum yeah raising three children um you know and unfortunately she is caught within a very hostile system so she because she is going through part of the asylum

process she she's lived in newham for two years so again really journeyed with us and got 24 hours notice to move right across the other side of London. Yeah, which is just extraordinary. Yeah, and they can do that for such, really. And no matter how much fuss we, you know, kicked up in support of her and how much she pleaded, they were like, well, we can still do it. And for her, it wasn't about practicalities of how she was going to get kids to school nursery etc it was the fact that that was her that was her family that was her so bless her heart like when

she drops the kids off she comes and you know she's with us and because yeah that's that's what's important for her is just having people to journey with her yeah and i think you've summed up really well and say it stops it just being it's not just the practical it's the emotional I guess that's excuse me what I was trying to get at really is that when you think of a community center you sometimes think of it as like a resource yes this is not the resource that you have yeah but actually community is really the thing that's the significant part of the of the word really you know the phrase because community is the glue yeah I'm finding a place to talk to other people, to be with other people, the significance of that.

So, yeah, I definitely had Bonnie Downs right there with me. Oh, gosh, we were with you. Thank you. Solidarity, yeah. And Larifa's story is just one story to illustrate something that, you know, there must be many Larifas that you've met along the way. Yeah. How long have you been part of Bonnie Downs?

So, Bonnie Downs is an extension so the community association was um birthed in 1998 and it was birthed by Bonnie Downs church so it was Bonnie Downs church's way so they've got a very old little building actually on my road road and they were like, we want to create, as you said, a space and a resource for the community. And so the place that you visited, the well on Vicarage Lane, that used to be an old drinking club. Really? Yeah. So I sat in there as a child because on that road,

so my nan lived three doors down. So it's really lovely. When I pull up to work every morning, I'm right by my nan and grandad's old house. And so that used to be like a drinking club and it was abandoned overnight. They didn't pay their brewery fees. And so our church, I mean, I wasn't part of the church back then,

but Bonnie Downs Church just said, right, we want to try and claim that building and got in touch with the council and fundraised um i think they started off with about five grand of savings but the whole renovation was about half a million pound or something so yeah they had to really pour you know their own time and commitment into stripping back that building knocking walls down you know, getting what resources they could from local people and fundraising. And so they opened Bonnie Downs in 1998. I came along in about 2012. So I was very aware of Bonnie Downs and went along to be

part of the community when I could but i was working at that point in my life um in hatton garden in a jeweler's that was my background yeah that was my background and then i left there when i became pregnant with lottie lottie's your eldest she is my eldest yeah she's 11 on saturday um so i was pregnant with her when i left my my job in Hatton Garden and um just yeah I I felt that I was really fortunate really that I I mean I wanted to be at home with Lottie I also felt I'd outgrown my role a little bit um with what I was doing and um yeah and we was in a position where I was able to be at home with Lottie um Matt was working full-time and so I started to go to the toddler groups and things that I'd heard about through the church this work that you know Bonnie Downs was doing

I was able to actually physically be part of it, which was lovely. And skip back about four years before that, I was helping out in the Sunday school at Bonnie Downs Church and someone said to me, oh, you're quite good with kids. And I was like, really? Like, are you sure? And they were like, yeah, why don't you think about... And I'm quite a creative person as well. I like to visually build things. And they said, why don't you look at, you know, maybe doing a childcare course, like if you're thinking that you don't

want to be doing the jewellery stuff forever. So myself and my friend Sarah, who's actually now the managing director at Bonnie Downs, we both did a level four management in childcare qualification. And I was really nervous about that because I'd left school at 15 with no desire to ever put pen to paper ever again in any kind of study form. But did that. So then, you know, coming back to...

This was before you'd had kids that you did it. Before I'd had kids that I did it. And so then when I had Lottie and was around in the community, Bonnie Downs approached me and said, well, why don't you and Sarah think about pioneering a after-school club for parents um so again kind of keeping the ethos of having affordable high quality child care for um for children to go to so parents could work

um so that was my first role within bonnie downs but around that sarah who i just spoke about and angie um they were already kind of doing things like toddler groups and support for parents and children and so i part so my role my first role within bonnie downs was starting off the after school care um although literally the first few months into, well, even before we'd opened the doors, I found out I was pregnant with my second, with James. And so as soon as I'd started the after-school club, I had to hand it over and go on maternity leave,

which for me as a mum, I was really cross about that with I was really cross with God actually I was like for goodness sake God you know how hard I've worked on this like why would you do this to me and I really felt God's sake yeah and you thought you were in control of your life love do you know what I mean so um yeah so I went off pregnant with James but actually that worked really well because as I then went you know back on maternity leave with a two-year-old and a newborn I thought actually as much as I love being part of the after-school club and working with the children there I love being around in the community and it was around that time as well that Bonnie Downs was launching a food bank in response to the increased poverty within our area.

So Angie, who was managing the children and families work with Sarah, she became very, very called. So it was when a lot of the changes in government happened and benefit changes shifted and there were things such as bedroom tax and... So it's like 2015? About 2012, maybe. It was around that time.

We opened our food bank in 2013. And it was around that time that we, that the Children and Families Project... I remember the bedroom tax, all that stuff. Yeah, all of that kind of came about. And it felt like the Children and Families Project were being really hit by a wave of people not really knowing who to turn to and feeling like um yeah financially um they felt very

very insecure yeah and so we almost felt like we saw this real wave of of poverty happening um and in response to that angie kind of naturally moved out of a children and families role and started a support programme within Bonnie Zounds, which very much focused on food banks, debt advice, you know, welfare support. And I then very naturally moved into her role in around, you know, a lot of the fun stuff at first really like the running toddler groups and the um craft groups for parents um so that yeah that happened all with James and Lottie and they were still really little really yeah project manager is that your yeah yeah so that that yeah well now um now at the moment I um I oversee um so Andrea and Carla have moved into that role now as project manager. And I, we've since then birthed a brand new youth project as well. So I oversee anything children and family like that happens at Bonnie Downs.

Because as you saw as well, Sophie, we're launching a new nursery in January. You came to and you saw it. you saw as well Sophie we're launching a new nursery in January you came to and you saw it so that's my role really to just oversee from the nursery the children and families and the youth yeah um but yeah and it's lovely and I think my but my favourite part of that where it would be really easy to be stuck in a room and doing admin and all of the stuff that comes with reports and budgets and things um being with people is what gives me energy um so my favorite day is Thursday which is the family hub yeah I remember family hub yeah it's my favorite day yeah for lots of reasons yeah we do get to eat really good food but um so that was actually birthed out of the pandemic the um

the the family hub so when the pandemic hit last March it feels like a lifetime ago doesn't it I know I know time has gone very strangely yeah it really has um so when we hit that first lockdown in March so Bonnie Downs quickly evolved because I you know I work for the children and families project at Bonnie Downs but as I said we have a support project we have an over 65s project we have a gardening project we have a sports project so the idea is that we really want to make sure that there is something for everyone within the community to um to be part of and um so we found that in March a lot of that we couldn't do and we evolved as quickly as we could into what our community needed us to be and that ended up being a food distribution hub um so

because around that time I mean COVID really COVID really hit, didn't it? You had people who were really being told, I mean, we're all being told to stay at home, right? But there were people who literally couldn't leave the home because of shielding. There were people that were catching it, left, right and centre. And so I think we went out doing lots of deliveries to people's houses with food parcels

and there was this moment actually where there was lots of our team members who had to shield because of you know underlying illnesses there were lots of those who needed to be kind of you know sat at home in front of a laptop trying to work out strategically how this worked and there were people who were actually really poorly with covid and then some that had to be furloughed yeah and i think at one point there was about five kind of paid members of body down staff literally on the ground and we were we had our excess stock from the food bank and it really didn't look like anything to look at. And we were thinking, we've got at least 30 families to deliver to. How on earth are we going to do this in our little cars

and with what we have? And it was amazing, Sophie. It was people from the community came with bags of food. There were sadly some people who'd, they knew their business was going to go under because of covid so they came and donated things like cleaning products and food we had local hotels you had to shut and before you knew it we just had the most amazing hall full of food that we were able to send out to people and then there were people within our

community who got in touch and said I've been furloughed and I really want to or I've you know I've not been furloughed or maybe like life has just stopped for me I really want to be able to you know support the community at the moment whatever ways I can and we had so many volunteers offering to drive offering so people who were even working from home in their lunch break would come and pick up a parcel or two for someone and drive food out and looking back no it was like a really odd operation we had to like wash it because we didn't know we were all learning about this virus together. So we were like washing things and anti-backing things and sending it out.

But alongside that as well, as we said, alongside the practical side of it, I mean, we delivered, I think, to like over 5,000 people, yeah, between March and whenever it was, March and July, I think it was, March to July. But it was also about how do we keep, you know, we were aware that there are families living in really overcrowded conditions. We are aware of families living in, you know, domestic violence situations.

We're aware of people who are just going to be so lonely. So it's like, how do we keep that, you know? Especially in lockdown, I think this is the thing that, you know, for some, you know, whilst you're protecting for the greater good, some in some, you know, very specific situations, it's really very far from what's needed to happen is being stuck at home. But I was thinking lots of things when you were talking.

Firstly, I think it's pretty phenomenal that you left school at 15 with no qualifications and are now doing as much as you do. Have you actually stopped to take stock of that? Because it's pretty incredible and very inspiring. Well, I can give you a little bit of story of that, Sophie, actually. So, yeah, when I was 15, boys were much more interesting than studying, right? Yes, of course. There were so many more wonderful things out there, boys, earning money. And I also, you know, I said a little while ago,

I'm a very creative and visual person, so I love stories. I cannot do exams. I cannot do exams. Under any exams, I just crumbled the pressure. You're not alone with that I think that's yeah that is a standard of where how we see if people have learned it doesn't work for so many people that's it and I think that um the only thing I was really good at was English Lit because it's stories I learn creatively um and I remember my English teacher Mr Mr. Bryan, and he knew I was leaving school without going on to college, and he, this was back in the day with paper forms,

and he said, you know, please apply for college, please, but you'll do brilliantly. And I was like, no, I'm not doing that. I'm not going back there. But there was a real regretful part of me of that because I thought, you know, I am, you know, I can do this, just not in the way that the education system wanted me to do it. And that always stayed in the back of my head that someone really believed I could do it. And then about, this is where you're going to feel I'm mad.

In lockdown, I took on a master's. Really? Yeah. Wow. So, or was obviously just no it was it was the July so there was something in the back of my mind that that that conversation with Mr. Brian it stayed in my head and that kind of desire because I do love to learn just not in an exam form and um there was this um you know when when you keep seeing something and you think oh is this a sign is this something that um and it was a um it was a strand in um it's it's a strand in theology

but humanitarian and social development so that really links into the work I do and it was a master's and I was thinking look I barely scraped past with GCSEs I haven't got a degree like this is foolish but my sister-in-law Sally she's a she's a university lecturer and she was like no no I think like you're living you're living this um master's out you're doing this in your work and I think they will they will let you do it so this is the University of Manchester so I had a chat with the the dean and did my first pathway and um yeah I'm doing it so I'm that's amazing I'm three modules in I love that I think it's brilliant and I emailed Mr. Bryan I Facebook stalked him

I Facebook stalked Mr. Bryan which is a good teacher story yeah and i am i was a bit like yeah um oh mr brian this might sound a bit creepy to you um i think he would have loved the fact that you remembered that conversation i did he did he was like you only need one amazing teacher yeah absolutely i mean it's just someone who sees you yeah and um and i just said i may not i've listened to you 22 years later um it's a long game it wasn't in vain yeah um but yeah he yeah he did say he's like wow that's incredible thank you for sharing your story do keep me updated and um and then he blocked you yeah yeah exactly yeah that's so creepy you never believe something yeah oh my goodness yeah and now he's gonna be like now

he's gonna get really worried if he hears this um but um yeah and I just was like and I'm I'm really enjoying it because I can do it in a really creative way and it's stuff that I'm really passionate about and yeah so I'm doing all right I'm doing okay and yeah I'm I'm gonna use this opportunity to be a bit boastful I got I got a distinction that's phenomenal I know so yeah I don't think that's boastful, I got a distinction. That's phenomenal. I know. So, yeah. I don't think that's boastful. I think it's proud. It's good to be proud of what you're achieving. And I think qualifications take on extra significance

if there's something you have instigated, you've driven yourself towards. It's not the same as that whole sort of conveyor belt of education and tick boxes and what did you get? I got this. You know, it's very different when it's self-motivated absolutely and I really do owe that distinction or any of this to really as I said the people that let us at Bonnie Downs Journey with them because it's just such a delight to be able

to write about those experiences and it's also really you know equipping me which in turn then equips those that I work with um yeah because a lot of the stuff that I'm doing in my masters is around you know like intentional friendships and you know so what does that mean intentional intentional friendship so um I should know really i just wrote a whole paper on it but so it's really about um i think sometimes with charity work as such there can be this whole thing of i don't know if i'm really i say this but our fundraiser calls it a bit like poverty porn really kind of like oh this is really terrible things are happening and people don't know if I'm really going to say this. Our fundraiser calls it a bit like poverty porn, really. Kind of like, oh, this is really terrible things are happening. And people, don't get me wrong, need to hear that to be able to give.

Do you see what I mean? People need to know that there are really challenging things out there and really unjust things happening for people to give. But what we really want to make sure is that we're intentionally journeying with people we're not kind of using their stories i totally understand do you see what i mean using their stories yeah oh look at us and the great work that we're doing and you couldn't do this without you yeah because also actually and weirdly as well that can create a bit of an us and them vibe which is actually the complete opposite of what empowers and so much of what you're saying

is making me think of the significance of being seen actually it's it's about not feeling invisible you're not a number you're not a story that someone can quote as an anecdote of it yeah it's the full 360 of what makes you think that you this would never happen to you and what makes you think that person because you do see sometimes with people who've led very privileged lives, it's hard to articulate this, but the sense that for some people, if they've led a sort of life that's seen them on a certain trajectory,

and it's typical of people who've maybe had a slight sense of entitlement, I suppose, and then they end up feeling that there's something about them that is just that little bit clever that means they would never have found themselves in that predicament and actually that is just the uncomfortable truth is that's just not not how it goes um so pulling people out into the light and saying this is this is the full story of it and we're going to be be with them as you say journeying with them yeah hand in hand and it's not just a kind of yes seeing yourself in bird's eye view going look at me doing a good deed right here. Absolutely.

Oh, my goodness. And absolutely true. And that's what's so lovely. So when you came to our project, it was so lovely on the radio to hear like Ashna and Huseyfa and Rina telling their story. Because it's like, who am I to? I mean, it's lovely to be able to sit here and talk about the work. for them to tell their stories it's so like yeah that's that's right you know who can tell your story better than than you really so yeah a lot of the stuff that funny enough you just said that whole us and them thing and absolutely that's that's the stuff that I'm

really learning about because yeah I don't believe in that us and them thing and making sure that we are always so intentional about that that it is about us as a community and we're journeying this together and we're all valued and we've all got a contribution to make yeah and I think actually that that point about the contribution is really significant as well so that people aren't only um weighed up in so far as you know how dire their situation is yes yeah you know actually oh you know if you what skill set how where's your time oh you know you're really good at that and actually would you like to get involved in that and you know it's sort of making me think as well about someone else I spoke to called Carrie who she said to me that um the way

to help yourself in your mental health is to find a cause bigger than yourself and actually think for people to feel part of something and like they're pulling their weight and they're contributing is it can't be underestimated um but what's it like for you when you step outside of that and you do go home and how do you how do you where do you what do you do with that load of those stories and those people you're traveling with when you go back to your life and you're with your kids I mean is it something you find yourself you know sometimes saying oh we can't complain about this that and the other or is it more just does that have to stop if that's your day in day out um it feels like um it does feel like it can be a bit blurred, if I'm honest, because my children in particular have been really part of the community.

So they, like they literally do come to work with me sometimes. times um and you're right I think for me as a as a mum um I do have that whole oh gosh you know I'm really really grateful that they can come and be part of that and I think it's really healthy that they are so it's really funny actually so one of Lottie's kind of like little job roles would be kind of like helping out within the food bank and stuff like that and knowing all about it. And then when they did community day at school, she got really commended because the teacher was like, oh, she knows where the local food bank is, she knows where this is,

she knows about the homeless shelter. And I'm thinking, well, yeah, that's probably because, you know, she's been so part of Bonnet Downs and stuff. What was the sign she had around her neck? Oh, Play Buddy. Play Buddy, yeah. And do you know what? That was really lovely for me to see, really,

because they wanted to come to work with me. So, yeah, she'd made that little lanyard, hadn't she? Yeah. Like Play Buddy, Lottie and James. Yeah, so I think that I try where possible to kind of come home and be mum. But it does sometimes blur sometimes. I think living in such a tight-knit community.

So I live where I work, literally, around the corner. So taking the kids to school, I will usually see, you know, people on the route that, you know are part of bonnie downs and stuff and when the kids were younger they would be a little bit like mom come on let's go stop talking and i'm like gosh it's taken us but you know i think that as as they're getting older they're you know i mean they've always really benefited from being part of that too yeah you know do they instigate it as well do they want to be part of it? Yeah, so particularly as well,

like the youth group and stuff, they love it. So yeah, they're over at the youth group and things like that. And yeah, they loved coming to help out in toddler group the other day. They feel like really, you know, grown up and part of it and help her. And sometimes I'll be really naughty

and I'll bring home admin stuff that I know they can help me with. I think that's naughty. That's pretty, I like that. I like giving them a little job. We had to send out loads of leaflets during COVID. No, no, we didn't do that during COVID. We wasn't allowed to.

But there was that one point, maybe it was the summer scheme or something that we had to send things out. So I was like, right, Lottie, you can have the job of writing the envelopes James you can put the stamps on we had like a little conveyor belt going so they are very very much involved with my work but I am also very conscious as a mother that I don't want them to feel that work takes president really as well because sometimes i suppose with something that is so um 360 and it's

you know you've got the practical side and uh you've also got the emotional side it can be quite easy to sort of um i don't know what the right phrase is really but to sort of start use that as a way to almost stop engaging with other things sometimes because when you've got something that's such a big project, you can sort of be just in that world and actually being able to stop and, as you say, be mum outside of it, I think, is really important. The not is easy. Yeah, I think the good thing is we've got quite a healthy approach at Bonnie Downs in regards to just chatting these things through

with each other um you know just having that space to sit and reflect you know um because it yeah it can feel really heavy when you hear stories you know like larifa's and you know you'll be sitting there as a fellow griefers. And, you know, you'll be sitting there as a fellow human, as a fellow mother. And sometimes the odd tear will fall. And I think, again, that's quite healthy for people to see that, you know, but also you don't want to fall apart on them and make it all about you either. So, you know, it's kind of that kind of balanced composure of really feeling with people and just being like oh my goodness and also the other end all the joys and stuff as well um you know when like really good news is heard and just the being able to like really celebrate together

and the high that you get from that yeah and so we do make sure that within our teams that we really create that space of almost sharing together and talking it through. And, you know, my husband, Matt, is really brilliant at listening to me just kind of chatting my day through. And, you know, whilst respecting people's, you know, confidentiality and things that they don't maybe want me to share further, know but still kind of being like oh there was this today and this today and so yeah I'm I'm really um lucky to be able to have um yeah people that to kind of share that with and we're all kind of sharing it together and and part of you just thinks this this way is really heavy you know this feels really heavy that what I've come home with but actually nowhere near as heavy as what that person is living well I was thinking as well when you said that the food bank opened in 2013 I was thinking so um you said that Newham is the second poorest borough but was how long is that

I bet you don't need to know but was that the case it's been for quite some time it really has been for quite some time actually um but things seem to be I mean that's that seems like poverty has been getting worse it has disparity and I think yeah I remember I spoke not that long ago to um to this lady called Hella Thorning-Schmidt she was um former Danish PM and then she became ceo of save the children for three years and she i said how do you deal with that you know working for a charity like that where you're seeing such awful things and she said oh because i i believe that every day things are getting better for the children but if you hear that you know food banks bringing up everywhere i can't remember the exact percentage but it's something horrific like 40

percent of the UK's children are growing up in poverty it doesn't it must feel sometimes that that's not necessarily the journey that we're on yeah it's um yeah so you're you're you're right I mean in in Newham so we were talking about this when you came to visit in Newham 50% of children are living within poverty 50% 50% I know and that's by the way i'm not saying that to discredit what hella said it's more i think it's more a mindset but she's right the national yeah the national is right it's about something like 37 or 40 or something so she's absolutely right but yeah within newham um yeah it's higher and the only reason i know that is because i'm

that's too shocking yeah i've I've just done a report, and Jess, our fundraiser was obviously like, you know, that was the latest statistic. And the definition of poverty is, is it when you, for children, it's that they, it's either uniform or food on the table. Yeah, so it's almost like what we would describe as almost like essentials.

Yeah, essentials.'s almost like what we would describe as essentials. Yeah, essentials. So accessing food banks, accessing kind of that level of support of things such as, you know, uniform banks, clothes banks, et cetera. I think that, yeah, it makes you really angry at systems. But, yeah, that makes us really angry at systems but yeah that makes us really angry at systems but I think you just have to kind of take that anger and justice yeah absolutely and it motivates you yeah and that's it and it just kind of has to motivate you really um to just for us to kind of just do what we can in where we are and i think for us a bit a big movement in our work this year has been um so when the we were fine as i said like lots and lots

of families using the food bank really kind of living in real like destitute situations um and there were lots of families that we didn't really know um but we were kind of seeing the names of these families and we're not aware of them we're not aware of them so what we did is in January we were able to um set up um face-to-face appointments with each of these families that were using the the food bank um and it was really funny we were sitting in our old church building in hats coats and scarves because the heating is just really gone with the doors open because we had to with covid spraying everything so it smelled beautiful in there um and we met with every one of them. And I think the most heartbreaking thing was that when they said we're meeting with us as a team, we, you know, you spoke earlier, we spoke about things like, well, what's, you know,

what's happening in your situation right now? What do you think can help? You know, if we could go and see the prime minister together what would we be saying this is what we need but then also asking things like you know what are your skills what are your talents and what are your hopes for the future and I think sometimes the the system can just make people think well just just be grateful for what you get and we don't we're just going to give to you and we don't really care about you as a person like you just have this and be grateful and I think what what moved you know me and and the rest of the team

was very much how people well at first they were a little bit nervous they were a bit like why do you want to know so much about us and we said well we want we want to get to know you and your family and and that was you know and but that really moved me and that no one you know we we want to get the time to know you and your family you're part of our community and they've not really had that and um we almost uncovered what we said was this kind of underground community of people who just, we'd not met before, who just felt that kind of their way of surviving was going to the food bank, you know, and that was it. And so with those questions that we were asking people, like what's your skills, what's your talent, you know. We worked out very quickly that there was lots of people

that needed immigration advice. So we partnered with the brilliant, so the renewal programme in Manor Park who were brilliant at letting us use their refugee and migrant project. So the amazing... Because that advice is just gold dust gold dust really isn't it when you don't know which way to turn absolutely and um you taught me some interesting facts actually when i met you before about so if you come here yeah and you're not in the system you have to be

you have to be able to prove you've been living here for 10 years before you gain any sort of identity within the system that's right obviously when you arrived here you didn't have any way in the system no so how you prove that is a thing in itself. Absolutely, yeah. Oh, my gosh. And I'm just still learning so much about it. So that was amazing. Having Sylvia there with her years of experience

was just like gold dust. And it took them a little while to trust us because as soon as we'd say the word immigration, you know, alarm bells would go off. Yeah, of course. And we had to rely on the wonderful Sam. Sam, bless him, he's a retired man. So a lot of the people that we meet

are from the Malayaman community, so the Indian community. And Sam speaks Malayaman. He's meant to be retired, but he volunteers with Bonnie Downs three days a week. Oh, wow. I said said your wife must be so cross at us sam you know but he comes lovingly and he translates we call him uncle sam

um so that was it so we got a translator we had sylvia um and yeah and so you're right so so what a lot what we find in is a lot of people within the Malayam community were coming here and they were overstaying their visa and they were almost told that was the way to do it. And the reason that the majority of them do that is because of education for their children. Because for them, education, you know, back in India is a privilege, is a privilege. And so for them, it's like, okay, well, our children have that, that chance. And everyone's story is different.

Everyone's story is different. But I do think that unfortunately, for them is then when they come and they overstay their visa um you know we under the children's act have an obligation for the children to be in education that's great but i do think for many of them um there isn't there wasn't really the level of understanding of actually how hostile that system is for them actually um so when you do hear that narrative on, you know, within the media, you know, certain politicians standing on the cliffs kind of saying, oh, look at all the boats coming in and everyone's going to stay in a five-star hotel. And, you know, that's really not the narrative that we see.

Actually, it is very, well, almost impossible to get any kind of service as such for those families. To the point, so even though the children could come into the school system, the children, when the vouchers would be, when St Marcus Rashford, I will call him, that man can do no wrong in our, well, in my opinion. And when he kind of pioneered around children getting free school meals and the school vouchers, those children were still exempt from it because the government didn't owe anything to those children, that makes sense wow yeah so um yeah so like we did a lot of work in kind of like ringing around the schools and that's where you hear the stories of like teachers out of their own pockets providing charities the strain on there really um and i think that's what it is so families will come here and they'll be like, my children will get into education.

But then they really are doing cash in hand work. And obviously throughout the pandemic, that dried up. Things like construction, cleaning, hospitality. And they're living, you know, they're paying, you know, well, for us in East Ham, London rent, like 700 quid for a box room. And they're paying that. And yeah, not being able to do any kind of work at all. Yeah.

Yeah, so that was really tough. So, you know, that felt like this whole kind of underground community that we were meeting who, you know they had you know they had to be hidden because they were so worried about immigration and we've been able to really because this and this was a whole new world for us at bonnie downs a whole new world i mean our support project with um you know the some of the people that they work with through our homeless daycare center i think they'd seen some of that and they were able to guide us. But for us as a families project, it was a whole new world

and we wanted to be able to, as we say, like really intentionally support these families, you know, because, you know, bad advice is worse than no advice, basically. So I made sure that we sought advice from places like Maternity Action, And so I made sure that we sought advice from places like Maternity Action, you know, and, you know, just places that really specialise within being able to support families. But then for us, we were able to really offer some of the practical stuff, but then do some of the fun stuff. So we were like, OK, so you're saying you're good at cooking. Let's cook together.

And let's. So we created Family Hub, which meant that. So it's happening now. Yeah. So they're all they're all there today actually it's Thursday so we'll start off and we'll have breakfast together and all the kids will come all like the little ones will come and play because the older ones will be at school um and then one of the parents because we say like a lot of them enjoy different things we'll do crafts so like last week it's rubbed off now but shanta she did henna for us all um yeah so we'll do that and then um what we do is because a lot of the parents there said they really enjoyed cooking or that or that's what they were good at we'll um we'll have a budget and we'll give that to the parents and then they go

and buy the ingredients and then we cook them all on the stove together and we eat together you know because that's what families do you know the kids play together we sit we chat we have breakfast cups of tea we cook together we have lunch together and within that there is some woven you know practical support as well um but i think you know just being able to just offer that place of i loved what you said at the end of that radio 2 clip a place of community and hope really so for people to come for people for us to just celebrate with each other for us to just share life's challenges and tragedies together it's a real it's a real privilege to do it it's a real privilege to do it and yeah I can see that I think hearing people's stories and when they trust you with you know what's happened to them and with uh showing where they're strong and

showing where they feel vulnerable that's it is a big privilege actually when people open with you like that yeah I think that's what really struck me, actually, because, you know, speaking to the women I spoke to and seeing all the kids together, I think this is more than just a playgroup or a cooking group or whatever. It's about all of that, the strength and those bonds that are woven together. And I think as well, it is still an eye-opener for me. I think that's the other thing I learned about.

So if someone comes here and then they have a baby, it costs them thousands of pounds, they immediately rack up medical bills. Because I think people have a cynical idea that you can come here and use the NHS and this is another thing. Yeah. But you were telling me about that as well.

Yeah. So again, this is things that we're still really learning about and as we said we've had to lean into really you know amazing organizations such as like like praxis for us is kind of the people like the go-to to talk to about things like this but yeah it has to be really life-threatening like literally your leg hanging off it's called like really like urgent medical care for them to be able to to receive it um but yeah so for many of them they come and they have their babies here and so we've got a little bit again it's one of those things where we really try i think what i think what the parents really appreciate is we have a real culture of fun at bonnie downs and it kind of gets all of us

through it so the people that are living it um in particular and so like we have our we have our babies by price tag so some of the kids that are running around you know we'll be like oh there's our 13 000 pound one he's the most expensive you you know there's our eight gram one he was a bargain you know and the moms you know we really love that and we most expensive you you know there's that eight grand one he was a bargain you know and the mums you know we really love that and we laugh together um you know the cost of like having them having them literally so scans um so maternity care um that that's the cost of having them and when I first heard about that I was outright I was like no way this is wrong surely there's somewhere somewhere that um and it's not wrong and as i said like returns to action where i'll go to and they were

like yeah this is kind of what we're dealing with and are these people who are literally not in the system or is this a people or asylum seekers yeah i'm not so sure i to that? I'm not so sure. I'll be honest, I'm not so sure about asylum seekers, but definitely those not in the system it applies to. Again, when children need care, so for example, there was like one where one of the mums rang me and she was like, I've got to take, I think I've got to take my son to the hospital, but I think they're going to charge me and I don't know what to do.

And I was like, no, no, no, take him. And so that is supported under there the children are supported so we do make sure the parents know like your children are supported and don't get me wrong all of the mums that we know like you know any debt you know they would they would pay you know their children come first but it's an added worry isn't it an added worry yeah um I think the most harrowing one we had recently and again this is something that um I'm investigating with maternity action before we think about and again this has to be led by the mum is um one of our mums had a miscarriage and was charged

for it um and yeah that that's the most harrowing one that that yeah I think we've come across four thousand pounds oh my goodness um yeah goodness and it's just all these lives being led out there you just don't even think about these things I know and um that's so shocking yeah and it I mean what do you say what do you say um and so it wasn't just that this, you know, very traumatic thing had happened to her and to her family because she's, you know, she's got children who are obviously really excited about, you know, new baby on the way. Not only has there been that for them to have to manage as a family,

she's then very, you you know scared by this very automated you know bill that's come through and so yeah rather than her putting an emphasis on you know her care it was very much this worry about a bill um so yeah we're so we're yeah investigating that and working out ways around that at the moment and stuff but the thing is i mean when we say that the bill is such and what there are ways in which you can work out a payment plan with the nhs but where it makes it very different so you're right what what you said earlier is that there's usually like a seven to ten year gap in where they say, okay, well, after this amount of time,

you can apply to kind of become a resident here. If you have a debt over a thousand pound, that goes against you as well. So like if you're given like a 13 grand maternity bill, you've got to hope you can pay that off by the time you, and for most of these families that's not gonna happen um because they're already struggling to pay rent and for food and things like that because the jobs are so unstable because it's kind of cash enhanced stuff um and, it's... Just as a contrast, if you are... If you want to have residency here and you have the cash,

if you spend two million in property and above, you get automatic... You get residency in the UK, just as a contrast. Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, I don't think it's something a lot of people know, but that is the case. Yeah, so you can just buy your way into it. You can, yes, yes. That doesn't surprise me, actually surprise me no it's not a big shocker isn't it it's not like you

better sit down for this yeah gosh well that doesn't surprise me to be honest but yeah it just it just shows doesn't it yeah just to have curiosity with you and your masters um is there a part of you when you talked about the anger and the sort of fuel on the fire is there a part of you that's sort of equipping yourself for being able to get a bit more involved in sort of I don't know lobbying or anything like that I don't know I think so

have you got a bit of you that's curious about I think curious is a really good word because you're clearly quite formidable and I can see there's a bit of a trajectory this way I'm just thinking actually you're clearly quite formidable and I can see there's a bit of a trajectory this way with sort of heading to I'm just thinking if you're thinking in those terms or if it's just sort of unveiling itself to you as you go along it's really funny isn't it because when I um when I kind of spoke to people about doing the masters and it's really lovely because there's a few people um kind of from the bonnie

downs community who i'm doing it with as well so that's lovely and so yeah johnny and jess and ali are doing it as well the same masters yeah well some of us end up doing like different pathways if that makes sense um so that's been really good to kind of journey it with with them um but i think the first question a lot of people asked was are you doing this for a career move like is this why you're doing this to kind of like put it on your CV and I'm like no I've not I'm not very good in kind of career aspirations as such I'm not I'm just like no I'm just really I just really, you know, this way of life, and, you know, I think that's where it ties into my faith as well.

This way of life really intrigues me, you know, and it really intrigues me. I really love living this way in community, and I just want to learn more about it, maybe how other people do it. As I said, I love reading stories. And yeah, and also some of the other side of it, like learning a little bit more

about maybe other communities' experiences and challenges that they face and using their learning. So yeah, it is, but it is a real discipline for me as well because I'm such a fidget. So to have to sit down and do reading lists and things like that and books that, and if I ever read, it's complete escapism reading. It's not, you know, deep theological kind of reading. So, yeah, I do have to have a real discipline about that but

yeah no a lot a lot of the stuff is is the kind of stories that i'm really intrigued with and learning more about other projects and it's a growth isn't it yeah yeah absolutely there's always no way ahead with these things no and actually i think you know you can you've already learned that you know you can live a life where it just kind of, and then you see the next bit you're going to, and then the next bit you're going to. You don't have to have a kind of, nobody's real eye on the prize. In fact, I think most people aren't.

I think it's, yeah, you can just sort of let your life unfold and surprise you sometimes, which is really nice. I mean, yeah, if you'd have told me two years ago, oh, yeah, you're going to do a master, I'd be like, yeah, don't be so... That's ridiculous. Or even when you were having your first first baby if you knew then where you'd end up a decade later you know yeah absolutely it's been yeah it's been such uh such an adventure yeah i feel really i feel really blessed to to do it yeah and i suppose with the with your faith um that that comes down to community a lot too

doesn't it yeah absolutely because um I think that um yeah for me that is faith so we we we call ourselves a blurry edge church a blurry edge church we're a real inclusive church and don't believe that church is something you do together on a sunday that it's like this formal structure like church is in the everyday like church is in our food bank on a wednesday welcoming in um you know people from all walks of life um so i told you that story didn't i about lottie with the um with the um the street drinkers oh yes, yes, you told me when I saw you, yes. So you were going to school with your mum? Yes, and my mum had her. So we have, as I said,

Body Downs is just a complete place for anybody. We're really inclusive. And yeah, we usually on Wednesday, because we run our food bank and a free community lunch, we'll get some of the local kind of homeless people or people like the street drinkers, really, who come and have a hot meal and a coffee to sober up and stuff. And yeah, when Lottie used to, when she wasn't at school

and would be kind of part of the food bank, she'd be like with her Nana Ellen on the counter helping make the teas and stuff like that. And my mum, yeah, took her down the road one day and some of the guys in the park were like hey lottie and my mum was you know a little bit like oh who are these you know men sitting you know on the bench with their cans of drink and she's like oh they're my mum's friends and my mum was like oh right okay but i loved that i loved that i, you know, that was a real proud mum moment, actually, that she said, oh, not, you know, they're people my mum works with. They're my mum's friends. I thought that was lovely.

And I think that, yeah, for me, so the church that Bonnie Downs is, is a Baptist church. And for me, Jesus was all about people, all about being with people. And that's what we do. And I think more than ever, I think for us, we, so I do a lot of work in the summer with young people. So we run a youth development programme at Bonnie's Downs and we employ local young people. So this year we had, oh, I think we had 45 young people aged between 15 and 22. And we employ them or give them volunteering opportunities and they plan and lead the three

week summer scheme and so children in need pay for some of their children to come along to that summer scheme and they pay for some of the young leaders time and work there so it's a really as you said it's like a really 360 thing so it gives um a lot of these young people an introduction to work it gives them a purposeful summer people an introduction to work. It gives them a purposeful summer. And there's some kind of mentoring and training opportunities in it. But it also provides a really amazing three week summer fun program for young people. And I think I'm very aware that myself and my, you know, my job share partner sarah you know we kind of come with that label of christian and christian organization and we feel that well we know what sometimes that tag

can come with that tag of christian can come with being judgmental and having certain views about things so for us we feel that for us it's making sure actually this is, we want to make sure that everyone feels included. We want to make sure everyone, you know, is welcome really. So we kind of spread that message and tell it. So we'll do things like I love, as I was driving here actually, it was down the Pride route because we'll go to Christians at Pride when we can. And yeah, so, you know, we make, I never want a young person to not be able to talk to me about their sexuality or any, you know, maybe decisions that they've had to make around certain things because they think, you know, I wear that label Christian and that we'd be judgmental.

Yeah. Well, I think actually that goes back to what I would call sort of the actual heart of what Christianity is supposed to be about rather than maybe, as you say, the sort of place where it ended up in terms of its sort of profile. Yeah, yeah. But I think, yeah, i think we've moved beyond that with what's how people are really living their lives with those values i think and i think

it's about leading intriguing lives like for me with my faith i think oh gosh like jesus was this really radical man that led like this really yeah people were so intrigued by him and that's why they followed him not because of a bunch of rules and it was my mother-in-law that intrigued me into Christianity because so me and my husband, Matt, and so we've been together nearly 21 years now. Oh, wow. I know. And we lived with his parents for about five of those years

to save up to buy our own home and stuff. And my mother-in-law, Ellen, she pioneered the Over 65s project at Bonnie Downs. And so I'd come home from my job in the city with diamonds and all of that kind of wealth and stuff around. And I remember coming home and her with an elderly person in the area who was kind of quite an outcast. Like no one really kind of wanted to hang around her. She, bless her, she had quite, you know, quite severe learning difficulties and yeah, people weren't very kind of kind to her. And Ellen made sure that she really took, you know,

was like, no, like this, this woman is loved and I'm going to make sure that she's part of a really thriving community. And she had her... She'd caught head lice, the woman, and she was denitting her over our bath. And I've come home and Ellen's like... Wow, that's love. Yeah, what on earth is this woman doing? She's complete bonkers.

And another time where she was like, don on earth? Yeah, what on earth is this woman doing? She's complete bonkers. And another time where she was like, don't put anything in the washing machine because so-and-so's bed bug sheets are in there. I had to go and de-bed bug their house. And I was like, this woman is completely mental. Like, what is she doing? And she just led this real intriguing life. And I thought, you know, where does that come from?

Yeah. And from her, it came from her faith. And anyway, you know, long story, she invited me to church. I started to learn a little bit more about Bonnie Downs and kind of grew in my faith. And yeah. So that's quite a significant thing, really. Yeah.

So how old were you then? 21. 21. 21. Yeah, so I was 21 um and yeah so I think and it was and I think maybe I think that's what we're kind of called to do really just have that like intriguing intriguing life a life that's ordinary yeah yeah intriguing lives and what that what that means really um I think it's just really healthy as well to keep looking outside yourself. Other people's stories are fascinating.

Yes, absolutely. Oh, my gosh, yes. Other people's stories are incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And we get to hear so many. And that's what I mean. We just have such, you know, it's just such a privilege to hear them at Bonnie Downs. It really, really is to just hear people's stories and for them to trust us with them as well.

And, you know, yeah, we do keep, I mean, funnily enough, Sally, who's our pastor at Bonnie Downs, has wrote a book looking for Lydia and it's all about kind of Bonnie Downs stories. And it's everything from giving. So like I said, because we have friends from all different walks of life and going over to our local park and doing communion with the homeless people. And one asked if their dog could have communion.

So she's like, I've never been asked that but okay you know um and yeah lots of stories really um yeah yeah well I think um you're a good advert for all of the stuff you're talking about as well because throughout the whole time we've been speaking as there's lots of joy about you Stacey and I think you know that radiates from you in every pore and also all your clothes I mean I've only met you twice but both times you've been the first time I was wearing rainbows your rainbow cards again

and today you're covered in pink flowers and bells on your ankles which is pretty impressive brightly coloured trainers and you also brought with you a costume change which I can only applaud.

It's because I was so jealous of all of your ones yesterday. Like, check me out. So, yeah, and actually the thing you brought with you is a rainbow dress, which I presume has been with you on the Pride run. Yeah. Yes. Which says, is it love always wins?

Yeah. Yes, that's a good slogan, I think. Love always wins. Absolutely, love always wins. It's a very powerful thing, isn't it? You know, and it goes back to kind of what, you know, what I said when we had our, you know, we had our little team meeting Monday,

is that that's got to be the vein that runs through the heart of it, really, is love. It's not everything. Like, these people, things need to change. We're a first world country. I'm not saying, I'm not trying to be twee about it. No, not at all. But it is the thing that pulls people along and motivates.

Yeah. And actually that thing you were talking about earlier with the anger you feel, that comes from love as well. It does. It does. Wanting things to be better for people. It does. Because they deserve it and you care about them.

It does. It absolutely does. And, you know, that can be really difficult and i think that you know i think we'd all say you know at bonnie downs that we never want it to look like a disney movie that like people come to bonnie downs and we all journey life together as like this really happy family and amazing things happen in people's lives and we all celebrate together and that that does actually happen quite a lot but there's also real sadness in certain things and there's also real chaos in people's lives as well and I think that that can be really

tough because no matter sometimes how much and this is just generally a life lesson really isn't it no matter how much you love someone sometimes um the chaos can take over or past experiences can take over and um and and that's why you know we spoke a lot about we do things with people not for people because there are some people that you me and journey with who you kind of want to be a bit of a mum with and be like well if you do this and if you do this and if you do this then everything will be better um and you know like a bit like the like jamesy used to have that one of those backpacks that you hold the reins on oh yeah you know and you kind of feel like you want to be like well you know it's really that would feel like you want to be like, well, you know, it's really, that would be quite a dangerous move, but I might have to watch you kind of do that and see things

fall apart. And that can happen too, you know, you have to kind of, you know, live within the chaos as well sometimes. And love calls you to do that, doesn't it? It calls you to not only do all the good stuff and the good celebrating and all the lovey do it? It calls you to not only do all the good stuff and the good celebrating and all the lovey-dovey stuff, it's to kind of be in the chaos a little bit as well. And we talk a lot about grace and truth, a lot. So sometimes there are situations where we just have to be really truthful about,

not judgmental, but truthful and honest about but then just show you know love and grace as well really like you can almost kind of see the chaos coming sometimes you feel you know but they will and yeah you just kind of love and do what you can and be honest but gracious at the same time and yeah and and finally from your from your vantage point is there something that you could see that could be changed that would actually make things significantly better just generally for how the situation that we're in yeah um i mean i'm aware not to get too too political and stuff but I do think so when we asked those families what what could make your situation better for a lot of them it was to work to work so I know I know that there is this narrative of people that say oh there's people

that just come and scrounge off the stay and they just want to kick back and get what they want. And don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are the odd few people out there that quite would fancy to do that. But that's not the narrative that we see. And I think that, yeah, I think if there was better access for people to work because even when people sometimes get like they're no recourse to public fund status some of them are still not allowed to work as well so do you see what i mean so i think that i think that it's yeah so like louise at the moment will not be allowed to work she cannot work while she's going through this process and stuff so i think but for so many they they don't want to rely on handouts they want they want to be able to make good yeah yeah yeah they want being part of things is good yeah they want to work and they want to contribute yeah and their

own money and you know that that's what people want so i think if there was a better access to work for people yeah in the you know within this kind of immigration system i mean i'm by no means an immigration expert or anything like that i'm just going by stories i hear and training that we hear but better access to work earlier on now it think it's a brilliant point, actually. And, you know, I think making things political is totally acceptable, from my point of view anyway, because, you know, when we were in our lockdown situations, you know, a Conservative said, OK, now you can have your cleaners back,

you can have your childcare back, you know, and I'm not an immigration expert but in my life a lot of the people that end up in those roles are people that you know maybe didn't weren't born here or are you know first generation born here yeah and that's that's actually the the glue you know and that's what's that's what's providing it so like when I was um dancing for 24 hours our amazing au pair Jelena who was born Serbia, then was a refugee and went to Spain when she was eight and then came here. That's who was looking after my kids. Access to work is really important.

And you don't just want to be grateful for your hand out at the food bank. You want to be able to do things. And that's why things like Family Hub on a Thursday, we're always cooking together and talking and people got loads of strengths letting them use it yeah it's good everybody enjoys that feeling yeah and we want it we always want to make sure it's as well so um i mean i've i've lived in east ham all my life um so i've seen it really the area you know through a real through so i when i when I was a child it was that very much like Cockney East End kind of really really working class area um and then our borough became much more diverse and now we again kind of like the gentrification and stuff we've got people that

have been like outpriced by places like Hackney and Tower Hamlets moving in to Newham because it's more affordable. But when I say affordable, it's like 400 or 500 grand to buy a house. Wow. You know, it's more affordable to buy there. So we have a real mix of people with money and those living on or below the breadline. So at Bonnie Downs, that's why, you know, of course we have, you know,

community lunch and food banks and that is providing a service, but we make sure that, you know, everybody's welcome. So our toddler groups, it is a real mix of everybody. And when we do things like, one of my best bits about toddler groups is when we do clothes swaps so if we um instead of maybe taking clothes to the charity shop we'll bring clothes to and then we'll like share them and it'll almost be like going shopping together so we'll be holding them up against each other going oh that will fit you that will look really nice and larifa was really happy actually she got some really cool like stiletto heels the other day i was like larifa check you

out like where are we going out type thing you know and um and that's it you know it's kind of doing these things together really um yeah i've got some great bits from those clothes and i'll be like stacy this will look nice i've got something i can give you i've got some great bits from those clothes. And they'll be like, Stacey, this will look nice on you. I've got something I can give you. I've got a sort of leopard print lycra catsuit. Oh, there we go. So I'll fish out here. I'll wear what you'll wear for Monday. I don't doubt it.

Yeah. Oh, Stacey, thank you so much. Honestly, I think you're, I'd want you in my corner for anything. And I also find your story, I think it's really inspiring to think of 15-year-old you and where you are now. That's just, I love that. It's brilliant.

And you know what though, Sophie, it is all, you say about having me in your corner and, you know, again, the reason that I can do what I do, what I'm privileged to do is because of all the people

in my corner. Do you know what I mean? And it really is such, yeah. Bonnie, it is like working for a family. I know that sounds really cliche, but it is. And it's lovely. Like our MD, Sarah, is just brilliant. She used to be my job share partner.

And she's great. She's not partner and she's she's great she's not your she's so people focused and so like she's she's got obviously quite a lot of work to do as but she sits in the office with us all she doesn't shut herself away and at summer scheme she'd come over every thursday and just make tea for all of us she just powered us with tea and chocolate and she's just so people focused that kind of like people before process we talk about that a lot people before process and at bonnie downs believe it or not we have a rainbow org chart instead of like your average one and the big red arch is all of the people that work kind of on the ground. So like our cleaners, our volunteers,

all of those that really arch over and make our project run. And then Sarah is like the little purple right at the bottom. Rather than, you know, usual org charts, it's like, right, the big boss at the top and that. And I think kind of through her leadership and through her friendship and love that it's so easy do you see what I mean when you've got someone like that in your corner yeah that's phenomenal that's actually really really important I think yeah your kids are going to grow up with so many

life lessons that don't have to be pointed out they're just part of how you live and how you think about things I mean perspective is is vital actually and once you feel like you've got that support it just lifts you up doesn't it absolutely absolutely and i was talking to claire earlier about um my daughter lottie who is 11 going on 22 and i said that's the thing isn't it like one of the things we've well we've both of them actually lottie and james like lottie in particular as a as a as a girl you know really knowing her own mind i'm like what you know i want to raise her to be like an independent fierce young woman except when i have to parent her

except when i have to parent her then you find sometimes when she's being that independent fierce person yeah i'm slightly rooting for her it's quite hard to argue against it because i am i am and then i'm kind of like, I just think, okay, we'll get through this, but I will love this. I mean, I do love it about her now, but like in years to come, you know, yeah, this will be worth it. The determination for her to argue with me. Hopefully she'll be using it in Parliament, you know.

Did your parents say the same about you? Well, funnily enough, my dad does give me this look and be like, oh, I wonder where she gets it from. But they do say I was the middle child. Well, I am the middle child. And they do say, like, I was a nightmare. They say you were such a nightmare. And now, but now it's...

I've got three of them. But if this gives you hope, do say like and now it's yeah now who would have guessed it like church leader social justice campaigner well do you know what I call my middle child

I call him the heart of the family yeah my actual middle right in the middle so maybe that was you as well maybe my dad probably didn't think that when I was coming in

as he was going to work it's a long game parents areic Zoon, don't you? It is, it is. So there you had Stacey Cordray, the project lead at Bonnie Downs Community Centre over in Newham, East London. And that marks my 50th guest which brings us to the end of series five wow

five series woohoo I'm doing an air punch here on the high street near where I live much to my children's horror I want to thank

all of you for you know being so supportive of the podcast I read all your comments everything the podcast is I read all your comments, everything. The podcast is a proper pet project, you know. It's a passion project born out of pure love.

I do it no matter what. I do it for the sake of two of you listening. So the fact that there's a whole community of us is brilliant. I'm sure I'm repeating myself, but with every guest, I feel like I'm adding another person onto our desert island. We've got quite a formidable team here now of women strong folk bright women who can who can handle anything on this uh spinning place island we're nearly there Jess um are we back with a new series in the new year I've already got some brilliant guests lined up.

I'll keep working hard at getting you the best folk. I know I've been very sport already, but hey, still loads more voices to be heard. In the meantime, big thanks to Claire Jones, my producer and friend, for her support. Hold on, Sweepy. To my husband, Richard, for becoming the editor, even though it was never his decision in the first place,

but there he is. He stuck out thank you darling um and to Ella May for her beautiful art week week on week so artwork week on week and thank you to you it's your ears I care about thanks for letting me rattle around in them for a while every week sending you lots of lots of love if I don't speak to you before which I probably probably won't now, have a wonderful Christmas. Jessie, is there anything else you'd like to add to the listeners of Spinning Plates Podcast? Um... You can have a thing if you like. Is there anything? Oh. I know.

You can say Happy Christmas if you want. Subscribe to your channel. Oh, subscribe. That's sweet. Yeah, we can do that. Like and subscribe. To Mummy's channel. On podcasts, Jessie, they do, like, on podcasts, you do, like, a little five-star review thing.

Maybe they'd give me a good review there. What do you reckon? Yeah. OK, thank you. Thanks for the support, Jess. Ray, is there anything you'd like to say to the Spinning Plate podcast listeners? Um... Do you know what the podcast is about? It's like working mothers.

I have a good one. Oh, yeah? I have a good one. You can just say, like, Happy Christmas if you want. I have a good one. Yeah. Comment what song you liked what mummy danced to

oh that's sweet sweet beer I like that cool alright right you can just say bye bye not really my demographic it's fine alright darling see you soon my loves thank you so much for everything have a peaceful time today. Thank you.