Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 52: Christine McGuinness

Episode Date: January 17, 2022

Christine McGuinness is a model and TV personality and a mum of three. She has just featured in a TV documentary with husband Paddy, talking about their life with their children, all of whom have been diagnosed with autism. Christine was also diagnosed herself during the making of the documentary. We spoke about her parenting journey so far, and how, during her own tough childhood, her wonderful mum showed her what a strong independent woman is. She also talked about how she has never heard anyone in the public eye talk about autism, and how grateful she is that she and Paddy can fill that gap now and talk publicly about autism. Christine is refreshingly honest and positive: this is a good story about neurodiversity. She also gets my top award for podcast patience as this chat on zoom took quite a while to set up! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hey, hey, how have you been? How's your week been? It's quite funny because I've spent this week in a studio. So from Monday morning all the way through to Friday night, I was away, actually.

We went to a studio in Suffolk, a really pretty studio called Decoy, and recorded, oh, I think we ended up doing six or maybe even seven tracks for my new album. And I'm saying it's funny because I was there away I was able to think straight about lots of stuff I was really immersed in the work I spent a lot of time emailing really amazing people to see if they might do the podcast and had some surprising yeses from people I was expecting was going to be a definite no so that's lovely but guess what I didn't do in the whole week where I had all these uninterrupted

moments I didn't record the intro or the outro how rubbish is that of me I was just it was just like yeah I'll do it I'll do it so I find myself uh what time is it now? Oh, blimey. It's nearly half past four on Sunday. And my patient husband is waiting for me to record this so that he can upload it all. So it can be published in just over 12 hours time, fresh, on all the places where the podcast goes. And I just know I've left it really late. And I really have no excuse. But in a way, it's quite nice, because it means I can talk to you about weekendy things,

and I think I may be in a slightly different headspace. Although I did love being in the studio, and the songs are sounding wicked, if I do say so myself. I was there recording, so Ed Harcourt was producing again, we've written the songs together again. That's the third album we're doing together. Richard was there too, to give loads of ideas and play bass and help with production. And my brother Jack's playing drums and my friend Pablo playing guitar.

So it's a really lovely team of us there. And the studio is set in amongst the countryside. And when you look out of the live live room you can just see this lake and a couple of swans who look like they're having a very nice time of it they're quite aggressive to any new birds but when it's just the two of them they're having a lovely time and it was just a really nice way to spend a week and I always feel weird about leaving the kids when I go away for work but I had a little tiny wobble and my mum sent me a text saying, don't worry, it's what we do, it's who we are and they'll be fine. And she was right.

And actually, when I was there, I knew I was in the right place doing what I should be doing. So it's a good feeling to get away and really focus on it. And it's really got me excited about finishing the album now too. I've got a few more songs that are done that will be recorded in the springtime when we finish the album. And then I will also maybe write one or two more. We can just see a couple of colours that we need in the landscape.

But we're nearly there. It's been lovely. What a nice way to start the new year. And this week we've got a bit more recording to do on it. There's a guy who lives near us called Simon who's a friend of ours, richard and i but he also is known as a bit of a synth man he's got a whole room full of synths and so ed and richard are very excited about going in there and layering up the music and making it sound all brilliant so that's what's happening there and then this week's podcast was recorded. Oh, when did I record it now? So it must be just before Christmas. And I spoke to Christine McGuinness, who as soon as, you know, I heard about her story, I thought, oh, I'd have to speak to her because

I'm always so keen to speak to people who are, I mean, I suppose in one way or another, probably most of us feel like we're outside of the norm. But I think if you're raising children where they have different needs and different challenges, you must be acutely aware of, you know, the path where the sort of typical path and then the path you're treading. And isn't it brilliant that we now live in an age where it's much easier to form bonds and find people who are going through similar things. So I know that through her Instagram, Christine has found loads of people who take a lot of support. And her talking so openly about raising not one, not two, but three autistic children. And I love the fact that she's so keen.

She's fighting her corner so fiercely for their kids to have every opportunity and live their lives to the fullest of their potential. I think it's amazing how that gets awoken in you when you are raising someone. You just want that for them so badly that you're not really thinking about much else. You're just fighting for them, aren't you? Just thinking, I want the best for you. So, yeah, I really liked her. And, oh, my goodness, I've never met Christine in person. We did it on Zoom. And it was like possibly the trickiest to set up. It just took ages. We couldn't get the sound thing to work. One of the connections kept failing. The thing with headphones, I mean, we must have spent,

I'd say a good half an hour if not a bit longer just getting to the point we could say hello and Christine was amazing she did not stop she did not look frustrated she did not suggest that we maybe just stop it and do it at the end of the day she was right there with me persevering and I want to thank her once again for being quite so wonderful about that but yeah I loved speaking to her. I loved her. And I thought as well, she mentioned about her upbringing and her father who had a big problem with his heroin addiction

and that actually ended up with him not being part of her life from when she was small. And, you know, so now she wanted to raise her kids with just something simple like hot water. And obviously she said, you know, I know I have a lot more than I ever dreamed but that was you know she just wanted them to have those opportunities and you know a mum and dad at home and and that that fundamental family home life and I just thought you know you really can't suppose anything about people can you when you see

that someone looks like they have you know a, a world full of luxury, you just cannot ever know what people are growing up with or what their perspective is on any of it. So yeah, I'm grateful to her for talking about that as well. So yeah, I will leave you with our chat and thank you to, you know, once again to you for coming to find me here thanks to christine for her patience thanks to richard for waiting till now to uh to edit thank you thanks to claire my producer friend for her amazing notes and ella may for a beautiful artwork and i will see you on the other side right voice memory is recording and i can hear you through me is well let's just we might just be two people having a chat for a while that never goes anywhere else but that will still be nice at least we'll have a nice conversation

um yeah thank you so much christine um if i had a tiny little award i'd be able to give it to you for taking the longest to get ourselves set up so thank you for your infinite patience in um in getting to this point of actually recording this that's okay thank you so much for having me I'm excited yeah me too I really I mean the first thing I wanted to do is give you a sort of virtual hug really because congratulations on your book and the documentary and I I felt such a, yeah, overwhelming. I would love to just give you a virtual cuddle because I think. Oh, thank you. I found it really moving.

I found it really moving. And I think the part of the documentary, obviously the, and the book, obviously the kernel that you're putting out into the world is, you know, trying to stop the idea that children with autism or people with autism are sort of ostracized or in any way a hindrance where there's whilst it comes with challenges that is not where the emphasis of raising autistic children should lie there's a lot of really no absolutely i think there's a huge stigma around autism, quite a negative, huge misunderstanding. And we just want to change that.

You know, we want our children to grow up in a world that understands autism and understands them and accepts them and includes them. And that's why we talk about it so much. That's why I wrote about it in my book and we've done a documentary. And we really feel like it's moving in the right direction. Yeah, I think it is too, actually. And I think, well, there's loads of things I was thinking about but I think the the thing that is for me very significant as well is because obviously I'm I'm talking to you because I'm always interested to know about how um for you know each individual becoming a mother

has affected them and obviously everybody when they become a mum learns new things about themselves and you know you can be surprised by aspects yourself but for you your children's diagnosis has led to a really very significant thing for you and that you've also now been diagnosed with autism which joins a lot of dots I gather from the way you've always lived your life yeah yeah definitely and you know it's it's one of those things where the penny never quite dropped until recent years even though the signs and symptoms were always there and it was only when I started understanding autism myself and I started researching it more that I realised how much I had in common with our children and I suppose that's why I've just got on with it and

just accepted it and I suppose that's why I've just got on with it and just accepted it and I suppose that's why I understand the children I never saw anything as as a big deal if that makes sense so you know the fact that they only eat a really limited diet for me of course I'm always worried that they're getting the right vitamins for their own health but I didn't panic about it I've just worked with what they would eat because I'm exactly the same and you know I think I think each individual is completely different every single person on earth not just autistic people so I was always quite relaxed in letting them develop at their own pace so when they weren't hit on milestones again it there was no big panic for

me it was just very much you know you've got to take it on a case-by-case basis and every person every child is different so I just from from the very very beginning from day one I loved them and adored them and accepted them for who they are and the way they are and the fact that they're autistic doesn't make any difference and understanding myself now obviously I know that I'm autistic as well it just all kind of makes sense yeah and I think as well there's something that happens right from the moment that you have your baby where you do feel that thing of just wanting to fight their corner and I wondered if and obviously this is like a you know big generalization but something that

I really picked up on was that you were sort of from the get-go like you know big generalization but something that I really picked up on was that you were sort of from the get-go like you know these are my children I think they're going to change the world they're incredible people they're capable of creating beauty and wonderful things in the world and you know just because there are challenges and you know medicalized aspects to their their life that that's not going to define who they are. And I thought, I really relate to that feeling of when you have your kid, you just kind of go, right, how can I fight to make sure

that they are just able to spread their wings and be that person? All I'm going to do is help lift them up and support them. But I noticed as well that for your husband, there was a little bit more of a step of dealing with the sort of children he thought he might have and then you know understanding what challenges might lie ahead and I know that that's a very similar dynamic with Richard and I as well with you know yeah definitely yeah and my husband has been really open about the fact that he struggled in the early years.

He didn't understand it. He really found it difficult. And I think, you know, whilst our children are not the children that we expected to have, they're actually better than what we expected. But they're not what we expected. So we were unprepared. I absolutely believe we were the parents that they were supposed to have I do believe we're the right mum and dad for these children not that we're any different any special you know we've got we've got no experience in autism before we've had our three but just the way we are even with our differences it kind of works you know and now he's he's fully on board's like me, he's researched it, he wants to understand it,

he wants to help, and, you know, ultimately, like any mum and dad, we just want to support our children, we want to encourage them to be who they are, to do whatever they want to do, we want them to believe that they can do anything, and have absolutely nothing hold them back, you know, certainly not autism, and that's something I've realised recently where I've had little struggles along the way with socialising, with trying different foods, with being in busy areas, just going shopping for me. It's something I've always really struggled with. But I've realised more and more recently that I've got to lead by example. And if I want my children to do all of those things, I want them to see mummy doing it too so I try and go to work I

try and go out even when I don't want to I'll try and arrange a lunch date when I really don't want to but I will do it because I want the children to see that you know I can do it I might not be completely comfortable but I'm not incapable I can do it yeah well I suppose you get that sort of nice symbiosis where you're being strong for them but also you're taking strength for them because actually it empowers you to think if I want them to do that then I've got to do it first I mean to people that um haven't had much experience with autism what are the sort of main things that you think is important for them to know about how that is affects your daily life um I think I think one of one of the most important things is is acceptance for people to kind of not um when you're when you're not included in things like for example children's parties quite often

there'll be there'll be children's parties that may not be suitable for our children to go to but i would never want other parents at school to not invite them assuming that they might suffer from some sensory overload in a busy play centre or they might really struggle and they get upset and they might have meltdowns that could happen but I would still want them to always be fully included and I want that to continue all the way through life so at children's birthday parties Christmas parties and when they go for for jobs when they're older you know anywhere that they go into employment I want their bosses to to really consider them for a job role if if they're capable of doing it and you know just because it might say that they're autistic somewhere

on their CVs or their bio not to discount it and see it as a negative because it could be a really really big positive so I think the most important thing for me is just making sure that people know that we are capable of work and we're capable of being good friends you know we are capable of having relationships I'm married with children I drive there is the other end of the spectrum that you know can be quite severe and it affects autism affects autistic people completely differently there are those where they may be physically disabled they will need care for the rest of their lives they may be non-viable forever you know there's parents out there that are still waiting to hear their children say mummy or daddy and I love you and that's heartbreaking but it does happen and that's

a really severe end of autism you've got the milder end where people kind of go oh well they look fine they're okay they're doing everything but I think people need to understand that just because they can't see it doesn't mean that that autistic person is not struggling inside you know it's it is an invisible disability and autism doesn't have a look you know it could be anyone so it just needs to be more recognized more understood and I think people just need to keep an open mind yeah and actually talking about that we say it's an invisible disability I think when I was reading up about it um it's estimated that one percent of of the world's population have autism which is about 75 million so a lot of people but also yeah knowing what they know now there's been

a lot of um people that from the past historical figures that they've now said actually we think all these people have actually that's probably what they were dealing with too you know like you know big creatives like the poet emilyinson and, um, Einstein and, um, and Suzanne Boyle has got autism, the actor Daryl Harner, there's lots of people out there, Courtney Love, that, you know, some contemporary and some, they're now saying, actually, looking at all these aspects, um, that's probably what was going on with them as well. And they're all, I mean, it it doesn't it's not everybody's autistic but there is a lot a lot that have a lot of creativity um a lot of intelligence obviously

it's not that's not everyone but there is quite a lot that are very creative it's you know that's a really positive side to autism and it's lovely it's lovely to see that all of those people have been really successful um really quite important in in our lifetime Einstein especially you know it's it it can be a good thing as well yeah and I think I think there's a good groundswell behind what you're doing actually because I think inclusivity and neurodiversity is something that's become a lot more of a topic of conversation in fact a lot of businesses are sort of actively trying to make sure they're thinking along those terms I think yeah hopefully for your children and their generation a lot more doors will be open and

a lot more open-minded aspect but I suppose in in the here and now I was thinking about for you having access to social media must actually be a really powerful thing because you can address hundreds of thousands of people, but completely on your own terms. I mean, if you were going to walk into a room with those many people. Oh my God, I would freeze. It would be a lot for anybody, by the way. Yeah, you know, social media has been amazing.

Not just for the autism side of things, but just as a parent, you know, you know how lonely it can be. And it's just nice to know that you're not alone. I think in anything that you're struggling with, you've got an output there where you can, you can speak to people that,

you know, you're not necessarily connected to. So it's a really, for me, social media has been a really positive thing. And certainly with the autism, I've heard so many stories, so many positive stories. It's been amazing.

And it's just lovely. I do feel like I've got my own little community on my Instagram. Everyone is so supportive. And it's just, honestly, it's been amazing. People always say thank you to me. They say thank you so much for talking about it. Thank you for making this a really open, casual conversation. And I just think, no, it's thank you.

Thank you a lot for following. Thank you for listening. Thank you for giving me a place where I can talk and put it out there. Because if I didn't have my Instagram, I don't know who else I would talk to. Because I honestly don't think anyone understands truly unless you've actually got autism yourself or you've got autistic children. Yeah. and I think since your diagnosis as well I can imagine it's quite empowering to be able to put out there

things that maybe before might have made you feel awkward or different or you know clunky about and then you can say actually I've always struggled with this and I've always struggled with that and then hearing all those other voices coming back going oh yeah that's that's me or actually that's my sister or I've got a friend that I think you know relates to that so I think that that sort of thing finding that community yeah 100% there's been there's been so many times that I've been there on the Instagram um wearing an outfit that I wouldn't necessarily wear at home because I would find it uncomfortable with the fabrics but on the Instagram I'll put it on for a photo because I might think it looks cute on my stories I might have been out doing something that I wasn't completely comfortable in but on my stories I'll be there smiling and happy like oh look at me and with lots of people having lunch but inside it's not

something I would naturally do I think I think you know we all know that there is another side to social media that isn't quite real and for an autistic person um it's easy to kind of slip into that and a mask to try and fit in to try and be like everybody else and that's something I've been completely guilty of and probably done it for a whole lifetime and I can't say that I'm suddenly going to stop and try and be completely me tomorrow because I've done this forever and it is part of being autistic um you know but recently I've tried to talk a bit more openly about it and the response has just been lovely it's it's been really really positive and it does make me feel less alone yeah and has it been for your family because I know you spoke about your mum

in your book and in the documentary too and about her relationship with her grandbabies yeah yeah just amazing honestly my mum from the very beginning she's just she just gets them she just you know she's that she's the crazy nanny she's all fun and she you know she always arrives with a load of energy I don't know where she gets it from and she's um she just she just seems to understand them she was the first person to kind of take me to one side and flag up that you know they weren't developing as they should have been and there were some delays there and and I was just like no they're fine you're worried about nothing and I just really

didn't want my mum to worry about the children um because to me they were perfect and and even when I was told that they were actually autistic I still just couldn't get my head around somebody telling me that my children were different or almost like there was something wrong with them because to me there was never anything wrong with them they were absolutely perfect and they still are but as I understand it now no one was saying there's there's anything wrong with these babies people were saying that they're not they're not hitting the milestones you know there's some delays and so it's a good thing to know early I think early intervention is key I think it makes a huge big difference with my third child because I knew about autism at this point and I knew there was a chance that she could be autistic I started

working with her using little tips that I'd used along the way with the twins, doing lots of sensory play, trying to take her to busy places to get her used to it. And I think it really, really helped. I think understanding it, it makes a huge difference. And getting early diagnosis as well, I think it's really important. Yeah, because I think sometimes as a parent, you worry a little bit about a diagnosis because obviously then it comes with you know what you can call a label and and you it doesn't change anything that child is still your child how you pair you know exactly so for the day-to-day sometimes you think is that helpful but actually I think for children as they grow up knowing that there's a diagnosis

is actually really empowering I think there's a lot of good that comes with it because it stops you all those question marks of like is there something up with me am I crazy for thinking this why does why do I struggle with these things where I see other people not struggling and that's what I've had for a lifetime I had that for for over 30 years and it was only the last couple of years where you know the penny started to drop and I and I and I realized and my husband mentioned it a couple of times and my mum mentioned it a couple of times and um yeah it was only this year that I actually got diagnosed because more so because I was putting it off I um I wasn't scared or worried about having a label or anything I just I wondered if I needed a diagnosis I wasn't sure if it would benefit me in any way

you know I didn't want to waste anyone's time and but when it came to it actually it was an identity thing I just needed to know and I wanted to understand myself and once I got that diagnosis the relief honestly I wasn't prepared for it was just like the biggest weight had been lifted off my shoulders I suddenly just went okay that's why I worry about everything that's why I'm so sensory with with clothes with food that's why you know I don't like patterns on my house on my curtains like this there's so much stuff tiny little things but when you add it all up there's a lot in there that I really struggle with socially I struggle massively and it's good to understand it's good to know yourself yeah I think so I think so and as you say it keeps that conversation open with your with your kids and with your family too I think

it's helpful for everybody because I think sometimes if there's I know that with my kids you know I've got a few that have got um different sort of learning challenges and that kind of thing and I think it stops you as well um sort of going down the same sort of style of um you know family frustrations and expecting a different result and once you're all on the same page it's like ah actually we can just relax about that because that's something about how you're wired that makes complete sense and I get that so let's not focus on that let's focus on things that work for you and your own where your own milestones are and what's significant in your own journey if you like definitely definitely and like I said that's something I've done from the very beginning

with the children where it felt like you know everyone else kind of had this panic you know the paediatricians the doctors the the nursery teachers and it was all like ticking boxes and milestones and for me I might have seemed far too relaxed about it but for me I was just thinking but we're all individual we all do things differently you know it's like just on the other hand when when people say you know as a woman you should you should leave school you should get a job maybe you should get married and then you should have children and you know what what's right and wrong do you do that in your 30s is it business first or family first and all of this and it's it's each to their own everyone is different we all have our own individual lives you know we're never going to

be the same and if we were it'd be really boring so yeah I'm quite happy with how my children are doing they're doing absolutely amazing twins are eight now my youngest is five they're all in full-time school and that alone is an achievement yeah they're all doing incredible well I think yeah I think what's possible to get um a bit lost in the washroom there's been obviously so much focus on on their autism is the fact that yeah raising three kids is a big deal no matter what like you know that's that's going to bring with it a lot of you know challenge i go like raising children is really full-on and you started with twins so that's quite a that's quite an introductory pack to uh to the whole thing what was going on in your life when you first got

pregnant were you working at the time or were you just the folk thinking it would be nice to be no I was fully focused I was quite a recluse in my 20s I had about eight years of just staying at home and just obsessed with being the perfect wife and the perfect mom and that's that's all I ever wanted to be and and the idea in my head was that you should stay in and you shouldn't go out and you should cook and clean and quite old-fashioned and that was my way of thinking and um yeah I just once we were married I couldn't wait to to have children and kind of provide that for my husband you know that family and it took a while it took us years we really really struggled to conceive and eventually we did we got the twins and um and and from the day we were born I insisted on doing everything um my husband went back to work when the twins were four days old and wow I just yeah I was recovering from

a c-section but also at home alone with the twins and that's how life continued um up until the last couple of years when I started going back to work myself I started doing little bits and um it's I feel really fortunate that I've been able to do both you know I love that I was able to be a stay-at-home mom for all of those years they're really important early years there was so many different meetings they had to have um speech and language therapy occupational therapy food play therapy there was a lot more for our children than obviously the average child and I feel really fortunate that I was able to not work and stay at home and that's thanks to my husband but then I'm also really grateful that

I'm now experiencing what it's like to be a working mum and I'm doing little bits here and there I'm still at home more than I'm away and that's how I want it to be forever and I just think you know the balance for me now is is right and I'm really fortunate that everything's fell into place so when you first went back to work you're you're how old were the kids then they were sort of they started school so they will have been five okay and was that back into modeling when you first went back yeah bits bits of modeling bits of tv I just at this point I just started talking about the children's autistic you know their diagnosis and um i was just doing little bits of tv talking about it doing lots of charity events modeling tv work i am just trying to raise awareness trying to understand it myself

and it was only ever just little tiny bits whilst they were at school i am i didn't start leaving them overnight until i said last, maybe two years ago? Yeah. So it's been really, it's been a slow, slow process for me, but that suited me, to be honest. I don't think I ever could have just, like my husband did, just kind of gone off to work, you know, a couple of days after they were born. It's not something I would have been able to do because I don't really like change, funny enough. And I think also we've all got our own things about that and if if you wanted to be with them then that felt like the only place you know you've got to do what feels right for you actually but i did i did wonder because obviously you've gone into modeling when you're really young like teenager and then done that into your 20s

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walks and hikes, led by expert instructors on the Peloton app. Call yourself a runner. Peloton all-access membership separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. But I did wonder, because obviously you've gone into modeling when you were really young, like a teenager. Yeah. And then done that into your 20s.

And obviously once you've had babies, another thing that comes along with it is how you feel about your body. Yeah. And did you find that process was something you enjoyed? Did you like being pregnant and all of that? Or did it sometimes feel a bit challenging? It sounds like something you always really wanted, to have babies. Yeah, it was. Both pregnancies were completely different.

The twins' pregnancy, that was the first one, I really struggled with my body changing. I went huge. I put six stone on. Before I got pregnant, I was tiny. I was actually unhealthy, really underweight. I was maybe six or seven stone, and I'm five foot ten, so, I was tiny. I was actually unhealthy, really underweight. I was maybe six or seven stone and I'm five foot ten. So I was really tiny.

So then to put all this weight on, I was very tiny. Towards the end of it, I wouldn't take many photographs. And now I'm really sad about that. I'm gutted that I haven't got more photographs of me pregnant when I was having the twins because it's quite a miracle. And, you know, it was an amazing thing and I'm so grateful for it. But at the time, I just, I really hated the way I looked. After I had the twins, the weight did drop off.

It really did. And I hate that term myself, that the weight drops off. But it did. And I think it was probably more down to stress sleepless nights not eating properly and just being on the go all the time with two babies and with me with my next pregnancy it was completely different I really I wanted to embrace every moment I wanted to make sure that I remained healthy I was exercising just gently after I had the baby I wanted to make sure that I was eating right I didn't want to rush into losing weight I didn't want it to be a stressful experience I

wanted to really enjoy it and so they were both completely different pregnancies but again just just forever grateful that actually they were quite easy for me I didn't have any any problems and it didn't stop me from doing anything you know I'm really really lucky with my pregnancies both went really well yeah and I think as well there's um there's something really empowering about going when you find your get back into feeling fit um physically because it also makes you feel capable and I think when you've got young kids being able to sort of run around after them and have that sort of strength in yourself in fact I loved it in the documentary when you said

something like um you know women are just emotionally and physically stronger than men and the gym has just been like therapy for me honestly and I don't like to preach about it to people because it's again it's you've got to find your own thing what works for you some people might enjoy swimming dancing you know some people might want to sit and read a book it's it's more about mentally how you look after yourself yeah yeah you know the the outside you may be able to tweak and change with help here and there but your mind you know there's no there's no surgeon there's no doctor that really can go in there and fix it you know you need to find out what works for you and for me when I found the gym it was it was the best discovery ever and I only came across that

by accident really because I wanted the children to start mixing with others and I knew that they were never going to settle into a busy nursery so I found a tiny little creche it had three or four other children in it and it just happened to be attached to a gym so it was a way that I could be in the building and leave my children for the first time before sending them off to like big school so um so that's how I found fitness but I can't imagine not doing it now it's such a big part of my life I absolutely love it I really enjoy it and if I don't do it I feel like I haven't done anything for myself it's become like a really important meeting for me to do for me yeah and do you feel that way about your your work as well and and having that bit back in your life now for the last few years oh god yeah

definitely I now I fear not going out when we had the lockdown I was really quite comfortable staying in at home and I loved it I loved being with children and my husband so much yeah it was it was lovely but I know I know I was like brilliant I don't need to come up with an excuse but there was always this fear in the back of my mind thinking oh my god if I get too comfortable with this I'm going to spend another eight years at home and I don't want to I want to experience life I want to live you know so I'm going to spend another eight years at home and I don't want to. I want to experience life. I want to live. You know, so I'm really keen to just try and keep the right balance, keep pushing myself, go out, wear my smile, whether I like it or not,

and just live and create memories for me, you know. But also, yeah, make sure that I'm in my little comfort zone at home. Yeah. I mean, I know you've described the social things as being really quite exhausting because you're I feel like you've got to put this this front on but when you've done it and you come home do you feel like you get benefits from it anyway even if you didn't want to go out the front door at the beginning or is it more like you relax because you're home again I think this it's almost like an exhaustion. You kind of come home and just go, oh my God, right, thank God that was done. But I do enjoy it.

There are points now where I'm starting to enjoy it. It's the getting out the door for me. I can make myself an hour, two hours late by doing nothing. I can be completely ready for an event. I went to a charity event last week for autism and I was totally ready to go and leave on time, and I spent an hour and a half in my hotel room, fiddling with my fingers, which I do a lot, checking the room, reorganising things, I tend to rearrange hotel rooms quite a lot, I keep thinking, I rolled a rug up, there was a rug on the floor

that I didn't like, so I rolled it up, and I put it on the floor that I didn't like so I rolled it on and I put it in the cupboard and it's still playing on my mind now two weeks later that I've left the rug in the cupboard in the hotel room I was going to say do you put it all back again what do you think I usually do but I forgot that one but so so just doing things like that I ended up making myself late for this event whereas I suppose somebody that fully enjoyed doing it would be straight out the door going oh I can't wait let's go and you know whereas I I'm sat there changing pictures on the walls and things before I go out and then I get to the event I wear a mask put a front on I chat as though I'm more than happy to be there and a smile and there'll be bits where I really I do laugh and I might watch I love music if I if I'm watching someone perform then I'm so

so glad that I'm there um but yeah once once I'm back to my room and and I take my makeup off and I'm like oh god it's done breathe you know relax yeah I mean listening to you talk I wondered if if you realize to me it looks like you've spent a lot of time sort of almost kind of um challenging a lot of the sort of judgments that people might have about who you are and how you live your life as well which I think is a really it's a really real resilience there he's probably been there since you were really pretty young um I mean when you left school what did you think you were going to do next did you have a sort of plan for how you wanted to do it or I just always wanted to be a

mom I remember just having like little boyfriends when I was a teenager and and it would last a couple of weeks because I would instantly think if we're not going to get married then I'm not interested I didn't want to waste my time I was just like I just want to understand where do we where do you see us in 10 years and if they weren't serious about about anything then I was just like you know I just I just don't want to waste my time and I met my husband when I was 19 and um and yeah thank god it's worked out it's you know 14 years later you were 19 I was 19 and um my husband was 34 and yeah I just felt like you know he's done his partying days he works hard he wasn't doing anything on tv at the time. He was a stand-up comedian. And yeah, he was quite relaxed about things.

So it just worked. It just worked. And here we are. It's been 14 very long years. And we've got three children. Yeah. You know, so it's gone well. But yeah, my plan was always to just,

to be a mum, to be a wife and be a mum. So where do you think that fire comes from then? That doesn't mean that you're just living your life as you do, but without the public side of it. What drives you to do that? My mum, I'd say my mum was a single parent. You know, we didn't have it easy growing up. My dad is a heroin addict. My dad started heroin before I was born. My mum didn't know that

until I was toddler age um when she really realised that this was a real addiction and he weren't just going to come off it and she really tried to help him she tried to keep the family together and it got to the point where it was dangerous for me as a baby so my mum left and um raised me and my brother and sister on her own and it wasn't easy for her and I think seeing that seeing my mum struggle um it really just made me think you know I want my children to have a different life I want them to have a daddy at home you know I want to make sure that we've got hot water and, you know, just a nice warm house, nothing to the extent of what I've got, this is beyond my wildest dreams, but for me, it was just having that family, I wanted to create a family, and that's probably from not really having

the full family growing up, and yeah, you know, it was difficult as a child. And it was a place that I didn't want to stay. And I feel really, really grateful and fortunate that I've been able to give my children more, even just the fact that, you know, Daddy's home. Yeah. Well, that's actually the main thing, isn't it? If that's the thing that wasn't there, that's the thing that having, you know that that family unit becomes really it's super significant um and your mum sounds like a pretty formidable woman as well actually that she can she's the best yeah she sounds incredible and also that's an unseen you know that's a everyday you know strength you need there that's not someone saying to her oh my god well done for

everything you've achieved that's just i have these kids and I need to keep things moving forward for them and provide for them and keep them safe absolutely I mean I remember I remember um always near Christmas time my mum would be you know quite upset I'd hear her crying in a bedroom on her own she'd be taking extra cleaning jobs babysitting for other people just anything you know just to be able to buy an advent calendar for us you know to make sure that we have food on the table she'd done everything she could to to keep her children happy and fed and watered and you know that's it's just incredible strength of a woman um but I suppose that's where I get it from so she gave me the best thing she could without money because she showed me what a strong independent woman is yeah absolutely and I think um it feels I mean I don't

want this to sound at all patronizing but it feels like you're still uncovering layers of yourself actually as well because if you started off with the goal of just getting yourself out of that you got to that point and then if your goal is to yourself out of that, you got to that point. And then if your goal is to, you know, be happily married, you get to that point. And then be a mum, you get to that point. But then there's obviously like a trajectory because you're not just, you know, living your life behind closed doors. There's something in you that's like, actually, I want to be able to put my head above the parapet and talk about something that doesn't get spoken about enough. And actually, I was imagining, you know, have you seen anyone in the public eye that reflects that you, is it been, you know, a bit of a role model for you in terms of raising your family and dealing with autism with your family? Is there someone out there that has gone before you that you see like that? do you know there's there's not there's um there's there's so many people really really good people that use their platforms to raise awareness of all different conditions i've never seen anyone talk about autism before i did and we hear about all different kinds of disabilities but

i think there was definitely a gap with the autism. I'm not sure why or how. I feel like we're filling that gap and I feel like it was really, really important for someone to take that role. I still pinch myself that people even give us the time. You know, every time I'm invited onto a TV show or a podcast or a radio station and it's to talk about autism, for me, it's just, I'm so grateful of the opportunity because

if I can help anybody understand, if I can educate, you know, anything at all, it's going to help my children. You know, so that's why I do what I do. You know, I think it's just something everyone should do if they can certainly if they've got a platform they should you know talk about something for me obviously I'm passionate about autism so even even when people get absolutely sick of hearing about it and they go oh my god here she is it's Christine McGinnis again talking about autism I don't care until everybody understands I'm going to keep talking about it. Well, I think that's really, I think it's got such value. And I also think, you know, there's a lot of shorthand that comes with asking people about their family life

and particularly when it comes to pregnancy and babies and what goes on behind closed doors. And I think unwittingly, people can often say things that are really tactless with good meaning behind it so there's forgiveness there yeah but it doesn't mean that there's not room to evolve and I was thinking the other day about the fact that when we ask people about you know oh do you think you're having a boy or girl and the standard answer is always I hope that they're healthy and I was thinking actually yeah what we really should where the emphasis is probably a bit more is I hope they really thrive because actually um being typical is actually not there's a lot so many people that fall outside of that that's actually there's

you know billions of people where that is not uh what they're raising and not the family that you know the sort of convention so actually or quite simply i hope that they're happy yes you know it's something we always get asked with with our children what what do you see them doing what do you think they're going to do when they're older and i just think do you know that they're probably capable of doing whatever they want to do anyway you know nothing's going to hold them back they're doing really well but as long as they're happy it doesn't matter because I think if you're happy in what you're doing you'll be successful you know you just you'll thrive you know you're going to

absolutely become whatever you want to be as long as you're enjoying it if you if you're going to work every day and you're not enjoying it you're not going to do your best job yeah absolutely and also you know it's an ever-evolving thing I mean who really does know what their kids are going to be like when they're older like we that's not really how this works actually and well we didn't know what jobs were going to be created like in the last couple of years there's um social media influencers you know that was never a job 10 years ago but it is now actually a real job so we don't know what what's going to be out there by the time our children grow up um you know even like just doing zoom meetings like what we're doing now that that's a new thing you know so god knows what kind of things there's going to be

when when minor adults but yeah as long as they're happy and i don't mind i think they're going to be fine i think they've got i think they've got lots of amazing people in their corner already. And I think for any kid, really being allowed to be exactly who they are and being encouraged and supported and seen as that version of themselves is actually the best thing you can do as a parent anyway. Because that version of whatever you... When you imagine your kid before you have one, that's just pure fantasy anyway. They come along and you're

like, oh, it's you. You know, let's get to know who you are. Like, I don't think any of my kids, I don't know, this is a weird thing for me, but like, when I've always got this recurring idea of being at school and I'm like 14, 15, and I imagine there's a lesson where everybody gets handed an A4 envelope and they're like, okay this up this is going to show you pictures of you from your future and I'm opening up mine and I'm like who are all these

red headed children like excuse me I seem to have five sons like are you sure I've got the right right envelope you know

and they're like you just don't know what's out there waiting for you but then when you get there you're like oh yeah that's exactly how

it's supposed to be yeah all is well expected try being told there's two heartbeats in your way. Oh, my goodness. What? I know.

Oh, my God. Especially being on your own with them from being four days old. Bloody hell. Yeah, yeah, you know, it was full on, but I don't know any different. And they kept me company. Do you know what? I didn't realise how lonely I was before I had the children.

And yeah, I'm so, so grateful that I've got cuddles on tap. You know, they're always there for me as much as I'm there for them. Yeah. And I think a lot of people really relate to that as well. I think, you know, for all the... I mean, I always find I speak the most lovingly about my kids when they're not in the room with me because they're like, oh, I really do love family family life and then I go home and I'm like oh my goodness

it's crazy but yeah it's it's that thing of like the sort of glory and the chaos of it all when they're little as well it's like it's just that's the thing your your you know your mind goes back to when they're older isn't it of remembering that bit and I do try and remember that you know if I'm helping them put on their shoes or doing up buttons and like one day there's going to be a bit where they don't ask for that so yeah um yeah yeah no it's lovely I'm just even at that point now where when they argue with each other I kind of sit back and think well my baby's communicating they're feeling some emotion over there, you know, they're really, they're really involved in what they're doing, instead of kind of going, stop arguing, I'm just like, wow, good for you, you know, fight your corners, yeah, it's brilliant, you know, they're

just, they're doing amazing, they really are, and they surprise me every day, and they've really opened my mind, they've opened my my mind they've opened my eyes they've opened my heart everything they're just I feel really really lucky that I'm a mummy to these three children yeah and I'm grateful to them too because I think um you know the conversation we've been having is all down to them and it's it's a really positive thing and it will be um it'll be helping even if you know we're not talking specifically about autism but just being open to the idea as you say invisible disabilities and other challenges i remember oh golly a long time ago now one of the early podcast interviews i did was with a woman called gina miller who's a

lawyer and her eldest daughter she's now in her 30s but she um when she was born they realized that she she wasn't developing as expected. And so she's now got a mental age of, I suppose, about six or seven. And she's functional and she lives an independent life. But she said that, you know, sometimes her daughter will be in the shop and be waiting to pay for something. And we'll be finding it just that little bit harder to kind of get her thoughts together, make sure she's got the right card, all that stuff. She said she just wants people to understand that everybody's dealing with their own stuff and not for people to get so exasperated. Like you don't know what's going on with people

all the time, you know? And it's sometimes got, we can be very self-centered and think it's always about us and like, well, you're taking your time and that's actually really affecting me and I need to be somewhere. But actually, if we just take a second,

everything still happens. The world still turns. Those extra one or two minutes don't really matter. But you're just take a second everything still happens the world still turns those extra one or two minutes don't really matter but you're just I just think in general society could be more kinder to each other regardless of disability or not you know everyone like you said you never know what someone's going through so let's just all just take a minute and breathe I'm really calm and really laid back and yeah it works for me and our family and of course because of my children I think I have got a very open mind

but yeah just in general we all still need to remember to be kind to each other yeah and your patience led us to taking I don't know well over half an hour to set up our chat so that's thank you for that as well and just to reassure you I know that when you came on and you were like two minutes late which is nothing or something and you said it was because your cat had just

pooed in your bath um yes my cat pooed in the bath well i was once recording a podcast um at my house and my old cat he's now so we actually had to put him down a few about six weeks ago now because he was just really he was 17 yeah no he was well, one of the things that happened towards the end was I was in the middle of chatting to someone, like we're talking now, and he just came into the room and did a poo on the carpet while we were chatting. So don't worry. Yeah, I've literally, I seem to have my cats behaving badly quite a lot around my work. So it's very familiar territory to me.

And at least your cat went in the bath. I would love it if my old girl cat would do that. Her favourite place to go to the loo, we've managed to stop it now, using tinfoil, weirdly. Put tinfoil in the bed. But it was in my nine-year-old's bed, but underneath the duvet.

Oh, no. Yeah, so you'd get into bed and then be like... So don't worry, it happens. Oh, no. It happens. Oh, God. Ours is usually very good it's just because it's raining is it we've got a really soft softy soft cat doesn't want to go out in the rain oh no i feel i've exposed my cat's embarrassments for nothing

you should have just said nothing you didn't need to know any of that stuff well i'm gonna keep on making sure exactly thank you for sharing of course yeah my pleasure um Christine thank you so much I think the only way is up as well I think I feel like there's going to be some really exciting things that you do in the future too but you've already done so much

and I hope you realise how important that is it's really good to have these conversations thank you so much for having me I'm really glad I was looking forward to speaking to you and I'm just really hoping everything recorded all right see isn't she lovely? I really enjoyed talking to Christine. I thought she's a phenomenal person to have fighting for autism awareness. And I thought it was incredible, the story of her doing the documentary and finding out that she had autism. And I was really intrigued by what it meant to her to have a diagnosis, actually. And it seemed like it had been a

really positive thing for her and a bit of of a relief and just not least because it meant that she could talk to her kids and know that it was something that she could relate to in that way but also I just think if there's a way that you've always dealt with the world and you just can see that it's not not as conventional not as typical then there's something really empowering about knowing what it is about you know it has a name, the way your brain works has a name like that. I certainly have seen that with the kids, like with my kids, when I've got one that's dyslexic and another two that have something called dyscalculia, which is like dyslexia but with numbers.

And as soon as we knew what we were dealing with, everybody just relaxed a lot more and focused a lot more on a different way of going about learning. And actually, I think that's brilliant for everybody involved. So yes, I think she was so brilliant. And I think she's done an amazing thing, actually. Because as I said before, whenever you fall outside the conventional as a parent, it can be quite a lonely place. So for her to speak out about it and

for other people to understand that there's other people going through the same thing and it doesn't have to be restrictive it can be something where your kids still have a really full lovely wonderful life with lots of opportunity then that can only be a good thing can't it um and so it's now sunday evening here let's have a look outside yeah it's starting to get dark but it's now Sunday evening here. Let's have a look outside. Yeah, it's starting to get dark. But it's actually not been too bad. You'd think it's going to get really cold because it's January, but it's actually been all right. We've just been out to the park for a couple of hours

and actually you don't kind of need gloves and hats all the time. And this week, I've got quite a nice week, really. I've got a couple more podcasts to record, actually, for your pleasure. So, yeah, it's shaping up to be another lovely series. Lucky me. Thanks very much for being part of it. And I hope you have a really lovely week. And I will try to be a bit more organised.

Well, actually, I don't even know why I'm saying that. It's not going to happen. I'll be scrappy as ever. Lots of love to you. Look after yourself. I'm not afraid to be alone