Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 57: Nina Conti

Episode Date: February 21, 2022

This week’s guest for Spinning Plates is the wonderful comedian ventriloquist Nina Conti. I’m a huge fan of Nina, having seen her live a few times, so it’s particularly special for me that she agreed to chat. We spoke about her childhood memories of watching her actor father Tom Conti on broadway, the joy of bringing your real personality out on stage, how puppets and the conversations you have with them are good therapy and the relationship her two boys have with Nina’s main comedy companion - Monkey (a very sweary and funny puppet) kumon.co.uk/trial kumon.ie/trial Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but it can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hey, little pot of doodles. I was going to say podcats, and I just thought, nope, I always say that.

And also, it would kind of, well, it would feel a little heavy to me today to say podcats because I know those of you who are regular, regular company to me here, when I often talk about my cats and the numbers are dwindling, guys. So back in November, we had to say goodbye to Kaniki and his sister from the same litter, Rizzo. I just returned from the vet now with an empty cat basket because I just said goodbye to her. She was nearly 18.

She led a really good life, but this last year has not been great for Rizzo very confused um a lot of not great behavior that I don't think she had any control over and we ambled along and tried various things and it became quite obvious that actually what was happening was a deterioration and I'm sure there are pet owners out there that will be familiar with that journey but oh my goodness the thing of going to the vet and having a say whether they're around or not is quite heavy my chest feels a bit heavy but in a nice contrast this week's chat with my guest is not heavy it's actually really good fun so I'm in the mood for a bit of a giggle something a bit of something to brighten my day again please

and what could be better than a super smart brilliant comedian ventriloquist I know so this week's guest is Nina Conti who is someone if i'm honest with you i wanted to ask right at the beginning of doing the podcasts but i didn't know nina i'd never met her i've seen her live and i followed her on twitter and i saw that she followed me and i was a bit shy so after plucking out the courage of you know taking just a mere 18 months to get to that point i sent her a little message saying you don't have to but I'd really like to talk to you if you'd be up to that. And lo and behold, she said yes, which was a glorious thing. So Nina came over and we just had a really good chat.

She's super smart. Honestly, if you get the opportunity to see her live, go for it. Because Nina will do this thing where her puppet, so most often monkey, but sometimes not monkey, sometimes she'll get a member of the audience and put a mask on them, or it might be a different character. She can have a conversation where she's the puppet,

another person, like chatting back, and her being her, as a sort of three-way conversation. And it's incredible to behold, really amazing. Just a little bit of context for our conversation the day that Nina came over was my second oldest Kit's birthday his 13th birthday and while I was talking to Nina I when I'm at home I sit in my sitting room chatting to people where I have quite a good view of this little tiny window next to our front door where I can just see a shadowy figure as people arrive at the front door which means that if I'm chatting to

someone I can usually see if someone's just about to ring the doorbell or someone's coming home I'm always thinking oh please don't make a big noise because I'm in the middle of chatting to someone and recording it and this time as I was talking to Nina I saw a familiar silhouette through the window of my son Kit the, the birthday boy, but he'd come home from school early. And that was not the plan. He was supposed to be at school for the whole day. So I think I referenced that in our conversation. So that's what that's to do with. It all ended up okay, but it was a bit of a surprise to see the little chap. We did manage to pull back a good birthday but

it did introduce a little bit of tension in that morning uh and what else is going on well today not only is my traumatic trip to the vet but i've also been battling the elements because we're in the grip of a storm today in london town it's red, but actually I think it's calming down now. It's not been too bad. It's been a bit breezy. There's a tree down in the park opposite. That's about it. Anyway, let's have a bit of a giggle, shall we, with Nina? I could really do with it. I need a little bit of a lift, please. Something to make me happy. It's what Rizzo would want. She'd want me to have something to make me happy again, I think. Oh, it's heavy being a pet owner sometimes, but sometimes it's just great. And talking to Nina

was great. So I'm going to do that now and listen to that. And yeah, I think it's cup of tea o'clock. All right. See you on the other side, my lovelies. thank you very much for coming over today nina and um we've already been talking a lot about well about decor because you said my house is not a million miles away from your it's lovely it's what my house would like to be yeah it's. I tidied up for you, though. Did you? Yeah, of course. You should have seen it this morning. But we're surrounded by lots of... Well, I was telling you, I didn't realise I was collecting dolls

until someone said, when did you start collecting them? And then I turned around and I realised I've actually got loads of freaky dolls. And I'm pretty sure the kids are going to tell me when they're older that they're actually scared of a lot of the things I own. In fact, I did have to get rid of a a couple there was one that I found at a car boot

that was a it was a clown that when you turned the little music thing its head would sort of rotate as it played a very very spooky rotation it was very yeah it was a spooky clown and that one just it couldn't stay in the house like a hex hexagonal. Yeah. Ground. Exactly. Yeah, spooky. I used to have an office. Now I kind of, I don't know what it is now, more of a studio thing. But I used to have an office that had puppets hanging all over the walls. And the kids, there were some playdates that were too traumatised to go in there. And then it got known as like the scary room.

Are we going to go in the scary room? So you don't have a scary room anymore? No, I've put them away they're under the stairs now a lot of my puppets that's quite scary too it's quite scary oh good they're just under the stairs oh that's fine then yeah where are your mum's talking puppets oh they're under the stairs they hear us when we walk up and down yeah Yeah, freaky, freaky things. There's something about those fixed eyes, isn't there? Looking nowhere. Unseeing eyes.

Yes. And things not speaking that should speak. All my puppies should speak. You know, they're like talking ones. They've got mouths that would open. So it just seems like, oh, God, this is going to say something. But would your kids never get you to do it for their friends when they come around uh you know I do my best I try but no one's having any of it

if my friend's mum could make toys talk I'd be pretty into that there's a golden age actually there are some kids that love it and they're kind of three three years old mine are much older now so it would just be really embarrassing if I did it. But yeah, around three and four, I think they love it. Yeah, I can imagine that, because they're totally open to that thing, just being that thing. Yeah. And they don't think about the world outside of it.

Absolutely. And also, it can happen quite quickly, and they don't have to have a pause of transition. It's just, oh, now that thing's talking to me. Exactly. You don't need to bother doing, like, not moving your lips or anything either. The kid doesn't care. It seems irrelevant.

Oh, you're here? Never mind. Yeah. You know, not looking at you or talking to you. That's true. And also, once you're engaged with that thing talking to you, you can have a conversation you wouldn't probably have with the adult that's making the thing talk. Yeah. Different style of chat. Yeah, very different.

A little bit more mischievous maybe yeah you can have an agenda that yeah yes the puppet will be on your side instantly exactly because I did wonder because your children are now the same age as my eldest and my third one so 10 and 17 and that's an age where sometimes you have to be a bit more careful about how to how to have chats if there's something a bit more tricky to speak about and I wondered if maybe your puppets have ever helped you with conversations with the kids if they need to open up about things um yes but the younger um I think that we've probably gone past that now because my 10-year-old would be on to me and be like, Mum, why don't you just ask me yourself,

do you not want to tell the monkey? But yes, yes, when they were young, I think so, I think so. Not directly things that were on their mind so much as... You could ask them... They'd muse more easily on things um and they're more likely to just talk full stop not like i'm trying to uncover a little trauma or something like that but just talking just chat yeah um yes it's quite hard after school when you get a quiet one how was everything fine you know and they don't want to say any more than that but i mean i didn't i didn't Yes, it's quite hard after school when you get a quiet one, how was everything? Fine.

You know, and they don't want to say any more than that. But, I mean, I didn't really bring the monkey out much with that. I would bring him out, or just my hand, you know, like a basic duck sort of shape on a long car journey when things are, you know, it's boring or I don't know. So I did a lot of entertaining on planes and trains and cars with puppets but just like any other parent yes yeah but your monkey uh is quite sweary so does he is he a bit more careful around the kids yeah he is but then they come see the show

and say everything's like monkey is a little bit different But there's a wholesomeness that they carry of him. When they see him on stage, they still think he's their monkey. Oh, that's right. I was going to ask what their relationship is with him. Yeah. Gosh, I mean, you'd have to ask them. It's fond, I'd say. It's fond.

But, I mean, the 17-year-old is pretty much an adult now. And so, yeah, he knows that it was part of his childhood, that puppet, and I think he's kind of fond of him. Yeah. They don't talk. No, that probably actually would be pushing it a bit far, wouldn't it? With your nearly 18-year-old son, like, come on, come on, you can open up to monkey.

Well, if they really want to they can continue you know to keep them alive after my death and keep that part of mum around you know all they have to do is do the voice that would be spooky but i mean that's something that happens with ventriloquists and you know i know that lamb chop and sherry lewis that sherry lewis is dead but lamb Lamb Chop now is doing the act with her daughter. Oh, wow. So Lamb Chop lives on. And is it the same voice? It's the same voice, same puppet, same character,

but it's a different relationship. That's interesting. It's a different relationship, I think. So that's something you have thought about a bit, like what monkey will represent when you're not here? When you die. Well, yeah, because I made a film about puppets and death and stuff, so it occurred to me then.

And there's a place where ventriloquists leave their puppets when they die called Vent Haven. So you can sort of send them to the museum. But most ventriloquists have more than one, so you think, well, I've got a few more. Well, they go, well, the kids can have one. Yeah. Yeah.

So when, because a lot of ventriloquists well might have a doll that actually looks like them right it's quite common isn't it to have one i guess so yes do you have one like i do have an enum one it's like a soft style sort of muppet one i know i think i might have seen her actually all right did you have her at edinburgh i did yes yeah yeah um it's a funny act to make work there because you're using the same voice for the both of you and I found a bit of samey.

Oh, that's true. Because one thing that did blow me away when I've watched you is you interact a lot with the crowd and you'll be able to have this three-way conversation between you, Monkey, and the audience member and you'll be able to have this three-way conversation between you monkey and the audience member and you never slip up how there's like so many skill sets to what you do which is why I was

so excited about speaking to you never mind the talking about kids bit just because you've the ventriloquism is its own thing that's its own art form and then you've got obviously comedy but then this ability to like make your brain go into those that shape is how did you find that developed with talking to the audience with the other two voices yours and monkeys um i find it much easier to talk to the audience well i mean i find it easier to make jokes through the puppets i mean but and and so i'm just keeping it steady whilst they're doing the jokes but if i think about it too much it might break down it sort of happens naturally if i if i'm not in the way and it just happens if i overthink or i nina try to think what monkey will say next it slows it down so everything's just

sort of has to be alive at the same time and I don't know why that that comes naturally to me it does I mean I'd never thought I could write or um or do comedy in a stand-up club or anything like that until I started doing the ventriloquism because writing in a dialogue was so much more easy than monologue yeah because if you're just talking you have to know what you think you have to have made a decision about what your opinions are about a certain thing you're a person you don't have I mean you vacillate, but you still sort of feel like you should come down in one place. But with a puppet, it suddenly just opens out a whole new wing. Anything could be possible.

You can think ten different things at once. So I was going to ask you about the ventriloquism and comedy. They were always paired from the beginning, were they? Kind of. I'd done some comedy acting uh i'd done some characters because you trained that was your first thing wasn't it as acting from school i did yes i didn't go to drama school but i did go to a kind of something like a cult of a theater group that was led by ken campbell and they did like very weird theater and so i I was pushed into playing extreme characters and I really liked that

and he was like this figure in your life is a big figure in your life yeah quite a big figure in my life definitely very formative and I've been quite mild up until meeting him and then I thought oh gosh I really need some of this flavour so I I stuck around him for years um whilst he was trying to sort of get me out of my box. And then, yeah, so then all the character stuff, I actually found a lot more liberating than being myself in the first place. So the puppets were just an extension of that, I think. Yeah.

I mean, I suppose, to me, the idea of doing stand-up, that's my sort of like quantum leap of anxiety. Sometimes when i'm watching a comedian i feel like if i make eye contact i might by accident swap swap position and i'll find myself trying to think what the next joke is so what is it about do you tell your joke on stage i always feel like i have to have one prepared oh yeah no i might yeah but they're like sort of uh i think i'm quite funny but just probably a downfall of anyone trying to make jokes because i laugh at my own jokes i don't know if that's allowed is that okay well i do it but i

really okay in the guise of laughing at the puppet but yeah okay that's nice well i feel like then at least you've got good company in your own thoughts and i've also always talked to myself since I was little? Have you? Yeah, did you always talk to yourself? I'm all for it. I don't think I've done it much. I would do it more now. I don't know why we don't more. Because I think it can quite help thought to pace things out and say things out loud.

But yeah, people seem to be shy of it, even on their own when no one's looking well it's a horrible feeling when someone spots you yeah that would be bad wouldn't it yeah but um i've often found it quite useful and anyway so yeah when i'm doing that or when i'm on stage i can it's funny because when i started on stage i was really still and i didn't really say anything and i was really i didn't dance um and then the older I've got the more the gap between me off stage and me on stage is pretty not very distinctive now right and I find that really relaxing but when I was younger that would have been mortifying yeah do you feel like that's

happened with you as well definitely has happened with me so mortified mortifiable when in my 20s I was I mean good lord it was as if I thought everything would go wrong if I showed a shred of personality. Yeah, it's funny that, isn't it? How we're so caught up in that feeling. Yeah. And like you've got to have everything kind of presented in a certain way

and it's like a kind of armour. But actually, I think it was Catlin Moran said that that armour is actually really hard to move around in. And once you take it off, you're like, oh, I can actually breathe a lot easier now. And I think it's easier. Yeah. And I think it also comes with things going wrong sometimes. Because the fear of things going wonky while you're on stage is horrible. But once you've had a couple of things screw up,

you're like, oh, well, now I know how to deal with that. Yeah, exactly. And dealing with that, you'll get more fun out of dealing with it than you would if it didn't happen, I think, and everything wouldn't normally, I yeah i certainly do i think my shows are uh are just like a petri dish for accidents to happen in and that's where the comedy comes from so i don't have a script i just got a mess of possibility uh there to happen so is that just in your head do you write it or do you have like a set list in front of you I don't have any set list I don't have anything I've got people coming up and

I'm putting masks on them and then whatever they do there's it just generates the catastrophe and so you're just narrating that if there was a plan if the person knew what they were going to do when they got on stage and they came up and did it i don't think it'd be funny i don't think it would be interesting and maybe part of you is quite stimulated by this what's what's going to happen tonight kind of a feeling yeah definitely yes it's horrible before because you can't you can't go through your lines or anything you have to just stay chill and that's really hard it's really horrible before but once I'm on stage I love that aspect of it yeah kind of so what happens for the last few years when you haven't been performing so much it's been strange well I did zoom gigs and I thought they'd be dreadful

but I ended up kind of loving them okay that's nice yeah it was quite fun it was fun seeing people's living rooms and interact in a different way. Um, but, uh, yes, I did some writing and, uh, uh,

podcasts of my own character podcast called Richard and Greta with my partner. And, uh, that was really fun. Um, so yeah, so it's been mainly things you can do at home.

I made little seeds. Yeah. I made some videos from my bedroom with the monkey and put them on my youtube channel I really enjoyed doing those and it was I look insane but I don't know I guess that's what people were going through definitely going insane yes I think that's true and actually I was listening yesterday to um a conversation you had with Adam Buxton, and he spoke a lot to you about the sort of madness of what you do. And I was thinking that maybe when, you know, because obviously you and I both have in common the sort of performance aspect, and I've always felt like, I think if you inherently feel like the need

to kind of get up on stage and perform in front of people, I think there's something in that. I don't think that's a normal thing myself. But I feel like if you've got that channel, somewhere you can put that, and you almost have to make it bigger to fill the stage, like whatever it is that's fueling you to kind of get up and do your thing.

I think so. And I think it comes from a certain measure of social anxiety, maybe. Oh, yes. I'm quite introverted, I think. Yeah. And it doesn't look like you are at all. It doesn't look like you are and probably doesn't look like I am to other people.

But I think I am. And so doing stuff on stage is to kind of organise the world just so that you can be otherwise. Because it's harder. It's harder. I mean, dinner parties are something that I don't do. I don't really love. I don't, you know, I've never shone at dinner.

And I think, I mean, maybe I'm traumatised from childhood dinner parties where I didn't speak. I don't know. It sort of feels like I can speak if nobody else is speaking and everybody else is just watching. Just looking at you. and if i get to say the things for other people because i've strapped masks on them so i'm the only one talking you know it's control for eekery yeah it's worse um the thing of being on stage i don't know the thing of

wanting to be on stage is also just i fell in love with it when I was a kid when I went to see certain shows I just thought that's just that looks so fun well that's funny you mentioned your your childhood because you grew up with both your parents acting is that right and they used to take you around with them when they were doing their shows is that right um yes well my mum kind of my mum kind of stopped she did little bits here and there but she pretty much stopped when she had me so we would travel along with my dad and his career was always very very busy and so we yeah and i enjoyed watching it i very much i remember when i was five it was probably the first time i saw him in a play and it was called whose life is it anyway and he was called Whose Life Is It Anyway? And he was in a hospital bed and he was playing paraplegic.

He couldn't move. And I found it odd that the whole thing was just him in bed. He never got out of bed. You know, as a five-year-old, I was thinking, well, it's not much going on. He's still talking. Nothing's happened. You know know i guess i just hadn't followed it but i couldn't believe that this huge theater was wrapped you know their attention was all on him so i was thinking well this is rare i don't know what this is but it must have gone in quite deep

yeah and then afterwards the dressing room all that stuff and people coming around and the flowers and teddies and gifts i wanted and chocolates and things and all this sort of attention and my dad's wearing makeup and it's all a bit like what is this a bit this is a bit exciting it's really exciting and also very you know if you're an only child in that environment it's a very adult environment as well so you sort of feel like it's something quite jushy about being part of it but you're not really sure what role you're playing within it sometimes yes a very adult environment as well so you sort of feel like it's something quite zhuzhi about being part of it but you're not really sure what role you're playing within it sometimes yes a very quiet role but you're getting you know chairs are pulled out for you and you're being treated like a little princess a little bit yeah um but you don't yes you haven't worked out what to say yet yeah exactly because i i mean you've seen you said you were sort of quite bland is that the word you used

until you had this moment with Ken Campbell and that theatre group. But actually, firstly, I'd say that that doesn't seem possible. But secondly, maybe being around this very sort of high-octane and quite glamorous world of lots of actors and theatre and magnetism and charisma, that's quite a rarefied little pool of people. That's not how most people are operating so you've kind of got these really quite big characters presumably all around you

my mom and dad themselves are very big characters they don't think they are but god they're really formidable both of them in their own way um because and and as an only child i got a lot of attention i wasn't starved of attention but i don. But I don't know why it took me so long to present any sort of personality. I was just planning it for the longest time. Well, also, I guess if you've got, particularly your dad being a household name, it's quite a big thing to then say,

actually, what you do for a living resonates with me as well, and I want to go there. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes, I went there very much on the back foot i was really yeah massive chip on my shoulder as well thinking people are going to accuse me of nepotism i've got nothing you know i'm just it was i was really sort of scared yeah but not scared enough to change my name or really try and work hard i was thinking well can't i just slip in i mean i was thinking can't i just can't i just slip into the business um you have to find your own way don't you and also you want a bit of mystery away from your parents presumably so that it's

yeah your set of people and your things you can show them the bits that you want to show yeah so in a way ending up with the act you do has enough enough correlation that they've never been worried about you and they get that your hours are odd and you know that takes you all over the place yeah but it's also yours you've done things they haven't experienced yes yes yeah i think it's quite important to have those things that are your own on each step with peloton from their pop runs to walk and talks, you define what it means to be a runner. Whatever your level, embrace it.

Journey starts when you say so. If you've got five minutes or 50, Peloton Tread has workouts you can work in. Or bring your classes with you for outdoor runs, walks, and hikes, led by expert instructors on the Peloton app. Call yourself a runner. Peloton all-access membership separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. I mean, a lot of what you've said,

I know it's on a very different scale, but growing up with my mom, she went to drama school, so I used to watch her do plays when I was really little. And I was an only child until I was eight, so it was often just me. Yeah. And so I was like that backstage, you know, literally smell of grease paint, all that kind of thing.

Yeah. Hanging out with these really exciting, very chatty, confident adults all talking to each other and being funny and witty. And it was always a bit like, ooh, and then we'd be taking up for a late supper or be watching her do a play. Although, unlike you, I actually heckled my mum when she was doing plays.

I used to shout things. Really? She did Midsummer Night's Dream and had to pretend to fall asleep. And I was going, wake up, mummy! And it's like theatre in Leeds, which I've been reminded of a couple of times. And again, not quite as zhuzhy.

I know you met David Bowie, didn't you, when you were small? And I just met Morton Harkett from A Ha at a brunch once. That's very good. It's not quite the same, but it is how I learned the word brunch, which I thought sounded really glamorous. It's brunch, that's a new mealtime. But I really understand that thing of having a slight chippiness because when I started out and everybody was banging on about Blue Peter,

I absolutely hated it. And I hated the inference that that was the only reason I was able to do what I was doing. Yeah, it's very hard. Well, it's not that hard, but it's hard. It's definitely a thing. Yeah, it inhibits you at the time, definitely. Or I felt like as soon as I was doing ventriloquism and I was working in sort of

pubs I was doing gigs in pubs I was thinking well this can be mine my dad's never done a gig in a pub there you go I own that one yeah he's no he can't talk without moving his lips um so yes it did suddenly feel and it was a lot ruder and I tried to stint at the rsc but i i think i found it po-faced i'd already been corrupted by ken campbell i just wanted to do something that was a little bit more um he sounds like quite an extraordinary man incredibly so magnetic and yeah it was kind of godlike in a terrifying way though and unpredictable and um all those things but he was and and so fiercely honest with no filter and all that stuff so he was very excited a little bit like monkey yeah monkey definitely would like to emulate that so was monkey directly given to you from

that collection of no no no i i found found Monkey funny as a puppet. He's like a city, really. He's not meant to be used as a ventriloquist puppet. He was sold in Woolworths. And a friend happened to have one, and I'd already thought this puppet was funny before I was a ventriloquist, so I'd kind of just taken it. And, yeah, and it was a really nice moment to realise

I was learning ventriloquism and then I thought, oh, I'd have to talk to this god of a full mannequin. I could try that monkey and then its mouth did move and I was like, oh, this is much more fun. This face I can look at, this isn't going to creep people out. Yeah, it's a nice face. It felt more modern, you know, fits in a handbag, it's lo-fi, you know. When you say it wasn't what's the difference

between something that's designed as a ventriloquist one and then a puppet then well i mean all these sort of puppets or then they're more dolls i suppose but they don't have a mouth they don't have a mouth mechanism no but monkey always did right uh monkey has a squeaker behind his mouth which is a you're not meant to put your hand up into the head of that puppet you just put the fingers on you might put one finger oh i see i can picture exactly what you mean put another finger up each arm and you just make it one of those sort of city ones but he does have enough of a little sort of inlet into his mouth so that if your hand is small you can get it in and you can just start to pinch it but it's quite people try him on, they can barely open their mouth.

But I've managed to work out how to get that. So you don't mind if people try on monkey? I mean, I don't really love it because... It's enough and I give him back. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's awful, actually. I don't love it. It's funny how much I don't love it.

And it makes me feel like I'm being precious. But I always think, I wouldn't ask to do that, really. No. Is there ever a trespass? I would definitely always ask first. I would never just go for it. Yeah. I could imagine that would be a real faux pas.

Just stop doing that. I've let people do it on stage occasionally. But they hang themselves pretty quickly yeah but because the audience doesn't like what they're doing and the monkey doesn't seem himself the monkey seems overtaken and yeah it's kind of yeah i can't think of the word uh it's not a beautiful what's the word cut this it's not abusive, what's the word? Cut this, it's not abusive. There's word trespass. It's a total infringement on his being because he's a different character. He doesn't have the right voice. His movements suddenly seem all wonky. So everyone's like, oh, monkey's gone wrong.

Put it down, put it down. They like it. So if you fast forward a bit, what was happening in your life when you had your first baby? I was at the Edinburgh Festival. I got pregnant in Edinburgh. And found out about it all just before, I guess, I suppose it works out. No, how long between you get pregnant and then you find out you're pregnant?

About three weeks, is it? Yeah, it depends. If you're normally someone that has, like, really regular cycles, I think you can probably find out, like, four weeks. You can find out at four weeks. I think so. I've always thought I got got pre-menopause. Anyway, by the end of Edinburgh, I knew I was pregnant,

and I just went on stage immediately after. So I was doing like three Edinburgh shows. I'd been doing ventriloquism for about two years. Well, you said you went on stage when you just found out. Can you remember that feeling of trying to work? Yeah, I was playing a dominatrix in arthur smith's show and uh i can't remember what his show was i was playing some greek goddess but dressed as a dominatrix and i used to have to come on stage i had like a dildo strapped to me and like a lot of leather and just like a lot of expectant mothers yeah yeah and it

was like it was a very sharp contrast the pregnant show because there'd been a shift in my head you know this all doesn't feel quite the same come on dressed as a nun like sorry i couldn't fit into the dildo tonight um it just the class the glass broke, actually. I've improvised it, but it's okay. It's very strange. And Edinburgh is so debauched, you know. There's so much drinking and stuff. And then suddenly it's very, very different. And I'm throwing away the pate in my fridge

and pouring water into my beer bottle so that nobody's asking questions and wearing the dominatrix suit. It's a bit different. You're just looking down the barrel of all that responsibility, so it was quite a sharp shift. And then, yeah. Do you always want to be a mum?

Is it something you'd always thought might happen? Yes, I thought I always wanted to be, I think. I thought I always wanted to be. I definitely did. And my mum had very much always said that it was kind of the most important thing and had seemed to enjoy bringing me up. And my dad also.

I think they both thought it was like a very important thing, and it is. And I did want to do it desperately. From the age of 30, I just thought it has to be now. And I did want to do it desperately. From the age of 30, I just thought, it has to be now. And I did it very quickly. Yeah, that's lovely when... It's funny, isn't it, how you suddenly have those things like, actually now is a good time.

And then suddenly the baby comes along. So did you sort of take some time off, or did you go back to your... Yeah, I took some time off. I was... I mean, I was reeling at how hard it was because my mum had made it look so easy and I was thinking this is not easy this is a conspiracy what do you do and you sleep how do you know you're any good at it everything

I felt I was at all making mistakes all that sort of thing and I loved this baby gosh I mean I just wanted to get everything right for him and I was um yeah I was quite thrown by the whole thing but certainly didn't really let myself into thinking that consciously too much and off I went to Glastonbury when he was only a few months old and did a gig in Glastonbury and what, did you take him there? Took him there. Took him in that baby Bjorn on the front and then, yes, and we woke up. Ever tempted to make him talk in the act?

A lot of people were expecting it, yeah. I did do a little bit with him in my belly when I was really pregnant. I did make a couple. It grossed me out a bit to sort of give the baby a voice, but I did do it. It seemed so needed when you watch a pregnant woman come on and she's a ventriloquist.

I mean, it's like what everyone was waiting for. Let's hear what the baby says. Yeah, but then I did kind of strap into me and off we went. But I didn't do anything that required any long hours for the first three years. Yeah, because I've always thought that the sort of job you have must be a lot of evenings and travel. So that's quite a different thing to have to take on.

And still does, I imagine. You still have to go away. And I say this as someone who does the same, and I think it's something I still feel guilty about even now, I think. Yes, I used to try and pretend I wasn't working. I'd try to get them to sleep in time before I went to a gig. They always kind of suss, though, don't they, when you're slightly in a hurry? When you're reading a bedtime story in full make-up and hairspray,

they smell a rat. It's true. It just felt like a make-up special for you. It's true. I'm dressed up for bedtime tonight. Yeah, I think, yeah, I definitely had a guilty thing about it, and I have it less now, because I think the kids kind of enjoy that I have work,

and I don't know, I don't feel bad about it anymore. And did your relationship with comedy and with monkey and ventriloquism ever change in that time? Did you ever think you might not go back to it i i don't know no i think i was keen to go back to it because it was kind of on a sharp incline at the time when i had the baby and i was then i was thinking um i've got to get back to where that was heading or it might just stop. But it was funny to go around. I mean, I went on tour with my husband,

who was also a comedian, and so we'd do half each of the thing and in the interval switch the baby, you know. Oh, wow, that's great. Backstage and all that. And it was quite difficult. It was quite difficult because it's quite kind of rock and roll stand up and when you've got a baby there you feel like you're not properly there

like we're boring people now that go home early yeah like you might be suggesting to people like you have a lovely time but we're having quite a different time yeah yeah I know what you mean actually yeah definitely but I did wonder if it's when it's because you know you had this sort of really pivotal experience with meeting Ken Campbell and everything that all the concentric circles that come out of that and then monkey becomes part of this thing that helps you sort of grow into the next bit I mean it's probably like a really stupid question but i'm wondering if there's any was there anything in that dynamic of you and monkey that had anything to do with this sort of maternal dynamic at all is that so i see no i know i don't think so i mean sorry yes i think so probably um monkey could be i't know, or I'm an only child.

So monkey could also be like a sibling. Monkey can also be like my sort of dark side or my id, or monkey can be like a sort of baby that I'm in control of. But I don't really feel maternal towards monkey I feel like he's the one with the knowledge of life and I'm the ingenue I think he's such a mixture of things and I think that's why the character continues to evolve is because it's a complete shape shifter and it can be anything that's exciting but also I've heard you say that monkey almost brings things out of you and it's a place in your head

that you don't you don't really didn't even really know that you had that yeah yes it's a I think that's like people finding their voice you know on the internet and stuff. I mean, it's just like a safe place where you could say anything. And so, yeah, I found it very, very nice. I thought, oh, God, it's such a lovely relief not to be Nina and say these other things. Yes, so Monkey, with the goading of Ken Campbell, is supposed to be the voice of the uncensored thoughts and if that's been so useful how do you encourage that in your kids because i'd imagine you'd want to give them

a similar outlet i want to give everyone one i want every i want to hand one to everyone i know so that we can start having some proper conversations that's a brilliant idea i think i mean i definitely if that ever if you ever have that group, like, can you invite me? Oh, God, I mean, everybody would have to hide under the table, I think. I can't imagine what it would be, but I long for a conversation without identity. Yes, I think that sounds amazing. i i genuinely think that would be fascinating yeah because it's not really obviously there's the the skill of what

you've actually learned to do with your palate and you know throwing sound but if you take that out of the equation for a second and just think about as you say this thing of this uncensored faceless version of yourself where you can just sort of blank page, right, what's my response? And sometimes, presumably, you surprise yourself sometimes with what you come out with. Yes, you do. And, I mean, I very much want to do...

I was going to do on Zoom, but the world opened up again and things have sort of changed. But I want to do a puppet-to-puppet sort of Zoom podcast or TV thing where somebody else, you know, you send a puppet to someone and then it's just my monkey talking to them behind the puppet. So I would let you send me a puppet. Send you a puppet.

And then I would do the voice of my puppet. You turn up, you're holding your puppet in front of the camera on Zoom and I'm... I think that's genius. Yeah. I actually think that's genius yeah i actually think that's genius because actually um like you were saying earlier with the little three-year-old you don't necessarily even need once you're in if everything in that reality makes sense you don't even need that person to be doing an amazing voice of not moving there no it doesn't have to be

yeah it doesn't have to be and if you're focusing on the puppet and not yourself, you've sort of come out with the right voice for the puppet. Puppet chooses its own voice a bit. It just won't fit if it's wrong. Yeah, I can imagine that. I did want to talk a little bit about your granddad on your mum's side. Yes. Because as I understand it, one of your children has his name

and he sounds like he was quite an influence as well with the character of Monkey. Yes, the way he spoke, the rhythm of his name and he sounds he sounds like he was quite an influence as well with with the character of monkey yes the way he spoke the rhythm of his words and everything which was quite monosyllabic sometimes and sort of dry very dry glaswegian um he he did influence the monkey character but interestingly he really liked monkey and he had um he had a stroke or dementia or something i'm not sure exactly what it was but he he slightly lost the plot his last years but he would speak to the monkey very lucidly i don't think it was as distracting as having somebody's like worried moving human face in yours,

you know, wanting to talk to you. He had much better conversations with the monkey. So I had this little dictaphone at the time, and I would go and record. I've got to work out a way to play these little tapes. I've got to get them transferred. But I would go around there with monkey, and he would talk to monkey. God, that is absolutely extraordinary.

And really beautiful, actually. But it must have been quite unique for you because you almost feel like you're a witness to this relationship, you know, that they have shared. Yes, I sort of stepped out of the way and just let it go. And he called him a little bear, which shows just quite sort of where he was. Oh, it's the little bear. Would you like a glass of Chardonnay?

And he would just instantly start talking. He didn't really, he wasn't speaking much. But then he was there, he was offering Chardonnay. He didn't have any Chardonnay. But, you know, it was like good times. We've got the little bear. Let's talk to the bear. That's so lovely.

That's really lovely. And also nice for you because if you're close to your granddad, then it's a way, you've got something there that's really lovely and also nice for you because if you're close to your granddad then it's a way you've got something there that's really special that you your exchange with him has got that thing where you've still got that connection yeah other people aren't having that experience of talking to him it was very very nice yeah and have you taught have you tried to pass this on to your kids is it something where you've have they asked about how to actually do the more technical side yes i think they both just about can do it they know the letters that you have to replace that you can't say without moving your lips and and they both can do it a bit but i

think it's a relief that they're not both curing up to be ventriloquist i mean neither of them is okay i'm quite relieved because it would be really strange. I mean, it's such an accident that I ended up doing this. It's not something that I necessarily recommend as a career path. I would go into comedy or whatever your own way, but ventriloquism... Why? What's the downside to it then? Because it sounds like quite a lot of it is really good. It is good.

I don't know. It doesn't work on Mock the Week, for example. Oh, I see. You can't do radio. That's the downside. Yeah. I mean, you certainly come off against people thinking you wouldn't fit into certain formats. So it's kind of you do your own thing.

And that's good, actually, because you don't become complacent. You just have to keep sort of evolving. But at the same time, you think, gosh, it'd be nice to have a part in something now and again, you know? Yeah, that seems like quite a small downside, actually. It's a small downside. That's not why I don't. It's because i don't want

my children to be derivatives of me i want them to be completely their own people yeah and doing very different stuff so when you go somewhere and there are that when you went to did you say benthaven yeah so when you go somewhere like that and you meet other people that are involved in the same thing are there certain aspects of like the conversation you can have with them that actually it's really nice because it's other people that do the same thing? Yes, in a nerdy way it's quite nice because you're thinking, oh, you're using sticks to move the puppet's arms. That's quite interesting. How does that work?

You can have that sort of technical chat in the corridors. Also, some people that go there aren't really even professional. They're just doing it because they like it. And it looks as if they're happy because they're getting to do it there and they're not being mocked and it's what they enjoy. So there's a safety about it that you sort of think. Every year at that convention, some hip documentary crew turns up to just completely sort of slam it

and bring it down or just one of those how weird America is kind of shows. Oh, yeah. And it's, I mean, I get it. I pretty much did it myself, but I think with a bit more heart about it. Definitely. I mean, I sort of, I want to look after those guys. Yeah. I mean, I sort of, I want to look after those guys.

Yeah. Do you feel like there's a sort of type of person you meet there that you think, oh, yes, I recognise, like, to be drawn into it? Yes, I guess there must be a common denominator, which is maybe it's shyness. I don't know. That's the most broad answer I can find. It's interesting, isn't it, that that's what ends up being something

that actually gets you onto big platforms. I mean, even as far as, because you did a talent show, is that right, in America? Yeah. That's a huge, huge platform. Yes, that was a bold choice. How did your kids feel about that? Because I've done a couple of things where there's a judging panel and my kids are either fiercely protective or completely mortified by it.

Yeah, they didn't show up to the recordings. They were there. They were in LA with me, but they didn't come. I think they would have been nervous. I mean, I was nervous. I was thinking, what on earth led me to do this? I'm standing behind the curtain about to do a seven-minute act, which you never do a seven-minute act.

I'm used to doing hours or two hours with an interval. Suddenly I'm reducing everything to seven minutes. What if I go out there and I blow it and I suck and no one laughs? It's the most humiliating. That's really nerve-wracking. Yeah. It's funny, those moments, isn't it, where you're waiting to go out and you think, what led me to this moment in my life?

I know. Tim Vine, when we were waiting to go on, said to me backstage once, I just want to work in a bookshop. And I always think that whenever I'm about to go on stage. I think, he's right, you know, it's just a bookshop. Yeah, because you put yourself through it and then you do it again and again.

And actually, sometimes sometimes bucket loads of experience doesn't make it less nerve-wracking. It's weird. Yeah. Because you always feel as good as your latest gig in your head, don't you? Yeah, and you have the day running up to it. I don't know. I mean, not always.

It depends on the pressure of the gig. But I can start my feebleness from lunchtime if I've got like a big one I have to sort of have a a careful day you know like an eggshells day not too much eggshells but I just I'm not really able to have fun yeah it's just even if fun things occur I think no I won't do that I'll wait till afterwards. It's a weird state to be in. Does it feel a little bit like you're packing a box with all your energy

so you can't kind of let it out? I think it is, yeah, yeah. You don't want to expend anything. Everything feels a bit expensive of yourself. Yes. On a day where you have a big show. I know, I know. And it's, yeah, it's just a really weird experience.

And every once in a while you have those sort of slightly out of body ones as well where you're just thinking, I'm here and if I stop, the whole thing's going to kind of stop. Yes. But when you've had a really great show and everything's gone really well, this is probably quite an odd question, but I've always thought that for a lot of people who do stand-up, obviously, you know, musicians marvel at the fact that

comedians will play same venues or bigger, but it's just them on stage and maybe one person that's driven in there and someone to turn the lights on. It's a very small crew. And if you have a great show, you come off and it's just you. So when you come off stage after one of your brilliant, let's say, two-hour shows, do you feel you've shared that with the puppets you've used in the show? Or are you still just like, okay, that was my gig? shows do you feel you've shared that with the puppets you've used in the show or is it quite a

are you still is it just like okay that was my gig um well I would be on stage with people from the audience so I certainly would feel and I would maybe meet them afterwards oh that's nice um I mean I wouldn't go out seeking them out and hunting them down. But if I was doing like signing or something, they often come and so you get to chat to them. So there's that much. But the thing is that they're different people from the people I make them on the stage. So I remember a different version of them. That was me.

But I don't remember it being me. So I think of, oh, the Scottish guy was funny. I might not even have been Scottish. That was just like me. the Scottish guy was funny. I might not even have been Scottish. That was just like me. So, yes, this is a slightly less lonely post-show experience,

but it is very rare of a thing, isn't it, to do a big show and then just end up moments later in a hotel room on your own. Yeah, it feels really weird. It's really weird, and you think, what will I do? Will I have a glass of wine and get some food? I guess so. I know.

I remember, I think, hearing Melanie See from the Spice Girls talk about that and she said that they were in America and, you know, doing one of those coast-to-coast tours. There were just loads of places they went. They didn't know anybody there. And so you play these big stadiums and then she would just be like back to the hotel and just, yeah, very soon afterwards, just on her own.

Quite in the hotel, I know. And you think, what was that? What just happened to me? It's the middle of the night, and you're thinking, who can I text in Australia? I know. And let the adrenaline, you know, wear off. It's just, yeah, it's quite out of body, those things, I think.

You have to have your own way of calming down. Yeah, probably the glass of wine and watching something silly on telly. Or take a pal with me sometimes. Yeah, that's nice, isn't it? Yeah. Because also then they can kind of get excited about things again for you and presumably not give you too much fun in the lead-up because they know you like to have your...

Yeah, quiet on the train, not even talk on the train. Your calm lead-up to it. Yeah. And so you've separated, haven't you, from your little boy's dad, your children's dad but you're out here you have a really good separation which is brilliant and i've spoken to a few women who've been through that and how did you find the shift into being a single mum when they're your relationship with them um well we tag teamed uh the child care a lot when we were together so in a way that that just continued

um and uh what was your question again i suppose just the shift in becoming a single mom really yeah but for my mom and i it was a really big deal like i think it was in a good way actually i think it formed the bedrock of our relationship actually the time that we were just it was it was living with her and we had i think three years but it's just the two of us right well i mean you don't have to run your parenting decisions by anyone half the time you know so that um so there's less controversy in every decision so it's simpler in some ways I suppose um but the the transition I don't know I mean it just it's still not long ago enough really for me to have a proper perspective on it all um I spoke to someone called Helen Thorne and she was actually really amazed at how how much she

enjoyed it actually and having that time with her kids. She found it really exciting because I think it was always like something she completely couldn't even begin to imagine and then suddenly sort of felt like she kind of actually had, yeah, a lot more fun in that role than she was anticipating. Yes, and you're very dedicated during the time that you have them and then when they're with their dad, you know, then that's your adult time. So it's sort of like sudden childcare in place as well. You huh yeah he's only got time yeah oh yeah yeah um yes i think it's my mother was a very i mean she was very good at with kids she's always good with kids and it's sort of a tragedy that she didn't get to have more

but um so i i just learned from her kind of how to be with kids and like to play she played with me so much as a child and sort of i think it might be my dad that was the influence in becoming a ventriloquist but my mom built a puppet theatre up in the loft i remember that and she did these fantastic accents for all the puppets and she's so naughty my mum um so i think there's a lot more of her in me than i than i often say what what made you think then that it was your dad just because he's the sort of known stage person more of the family um and he has a strong sort of male voice so I think that you know Monkey's sort of trying to emulate a more male voice to cut through

so maybe your material comes more out of that relationship but the actual this talent of you doing it my mum yeah my mum my mum's very outspoken she sounds fun too

yeah she's great fun yeah well I always ask everybody this so maybe this would be a good a good question to end on actually but are you the sort of mother that you thought you would be it's a very it's a good question um i pictured like being outdoors in a sort of french villa and's chickens and breadcrumbs everywhere and, you know, there's like kids running around in this little free, loving way.

And no, I'm way more stressed. I'm so stressed as a mum. It's ridiculous. And I'm a mixture of very lenient with sudden stress oh that sounds so familiar you do whatever oh yeah everybody just do that get off the ipad you're gonna waste your whole life you know it's suddenly you'd have no idea how reassuring i'm finding that description i love that i'm seriously exactly like me i'm so chill i'm so chill what the hell are you doing yeah

yeah well it's suddenly frightening if you think that you're not doing enough or you know that time is passing by and they're not oh it's a big thing it's a big thing to bring humans into the world and i really don't know how it's done. Nobody gets it completely right, but I certainly haven't. But they're lovely kids. They're lovely kids. That's a good place, I think.

I think once you kind of relax about the fact that, as you say, nobody gets it right. But if you have nice people that you've raised, I think that's as good as it gets, isn't it? Yeah, that's good. I don't think they're good, nice people because of me. I think in spite of me, but I'm very glad they are. But that's the nice thing is they kind of come along

and they're their own people. I mean, in a lot of ways, I feel like I'm more like a, I don't know, like a pinball machine or something. Like I'm trying to help the ball go where it's supposed to go, but it's sort of going to do its own trajectory anyway really kind of like flippers my parents were very sold on a guy called as neil who's like an educationalist in the 70s and he had a school that was famous uh for worse reasons later but at the time you know he it was completely free and kids could choose to go to lessons or not and there was no punishment

you know there was one kid who was a thief and he was awarded with 10 quid for doing that because you know he needs attention it's not money i don't know that was the kind of that really is experimental yeah it was very experimental and um and that no education shouldn't be a forced thing children naturally will want to learn so don't force it on them, put them off it. There's no way a kid won't want to learn. So that was the kind of, that was the ethos, was this very progressive thing. But I think you can make a mistake with it

where you just suddenly become a slave to your children because you, I don't know, it could get confusing. You don't want them, you want them to have this happy, free thing so you don't want to get in the way. But I mean, I think that's a mess. But I've sort of grown up with that intention of being like I was brought up, but it's too hard.

And then, I mean, then they walk all over you. So it's confusing and I haven't really worked it out. No, I don't think I have either and I totally know what you mean because I think that's partly as well the era we're in because children now are given a lot more we've understood the importance of them having a say having their voice heard the emotional side of that

you know, including them in conversation but at the same time you have to parent them sometimes make decisions they might not like i know and the boundaries that they're really grateful for are very important all that stuff exactly yeah i mean i'm saying that on a day where i've basically uh yeah i had a lot of that spectrum already exploited with that it's hard i mean i had a bit of before um the bit where that. It's hard. I mean, I had a bit of, before the bit where Kit came home again from school, we also had a bit this morning where he got his birthday presents

and he was really unhappy because he'd wanted something else that was really expensive that I'd already said he couldn't get. And that's all hard as well because you've got to swing between going, I understand why you feel sad about that, but also it's hard to be sympathetic

when someone wants something out of them. It's all those things as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Growing up in a modern world you'll feel sad about that, but also it's hard to be sympathetic when someone wants something out of them, you know? It's all those things as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Growing up in a modern world where technology to us is still a bit of a treat, and then for their generation it's really not. It's just how they communicate, it's how they function, it's how the world's going.

Yeah. It's hard. You're about to have an 18-year-old. We both are. That's quite nice nice isn't it I'm looking forward to that actually I'm both at the end of April that's good

I know, I hope I've taught him to tidy up after himself and ask other people how they are that's great all that stuff, have I done enough of that alright good luck. I know.

And actually, what's their... Because they've got an eight-year gap. Is that right? Yes. That's the same as between me and my nearest sibling. Oh, really? Yeah. I think it's quite underrated to have those nice big gaps, actually. Yeah, yeah.

Do they have a nice relationship with each other? Yeah, they get on well. Yeah, because they're kind of in separate zones. I think it's quite healthy. Yeah. It's all good. But well done having all the other ones in between. I'm still, like, gasping for breath.

That is basically how I live, like, just gasping for breath. Ah, that's better. Thank you, Nina. I mean, how amazing is she? And what a brilliant thing to, I don't know, carve your own path, blaze your own trail and be a ventriloquist. I just think it's kind of awesome. And I have so many dolls.

I mean, while I'm sat here talking to you now, I'm sat in the room that's Kit, Jesse and Ray's bedroom, just because it's quiet. They're all downstairs. And I'm looking around and I have billions of items that I could turn into good little puppets. And actually, on the evening after Nina had been round, so the evening of Kit's birthday, while I was putting to bed my youngest two or three,

that's right, yeah, it was Ray, Jesse and Mickey, we were playing and we all got little soft toys and they all gave them voices and we played for a long time doing puppets. And that was actually really good fun. So I love Nina's idea for a podcast about doing a, not a podcast, sorry, a Zoom podcast thing where people have their own alternative characters for themselves and they answer questions. I think it'd be great.

I think you'd come out with all sorts of stuff if you were you, but not you. Anyway, I'm going to look out the window. It's still a little wild and windy, but not too bad. It's Friday evening. What should I do tonight? Do you think I should get a takeaway? Is it that kind of night?

Or is it a cooking night? Kind of ate out last night, so maybe tonight's a just get yourself something and cook it rather than getting a takeaway. Yeah, I'm not sure I've earned it, really. And I'm going to be getting a meal out tomorrow night because I'm doing a gig tomorrow night.

And, oh, golly, I'm only two weeks away from the tour. Oh, golly, I'm only two weeks away from the tour. Wow, that's actually quite a big deal i've still got quite a lot to do lots of songs to learn actually because i'm doing lots of songs i don't normally do well watch this space dot dot dot see how i get on with learning everything in the meantime have a lovely week thanks for lending me your ears and i'll see you same time same place next week. Lots of love. Thank you.