Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 58: YolanDa Brown

Episode Date: February 28, 2022

YolanDa Brown is a saxophonist and broadcaster who has a constant, dazzling smile and an air of joy, which I hope comes across during our chat. In our house we know her best for her Cbeebies show YolanDa's Band Jam where she shows children the joys of music through singing, dancing and playing.  Mum to 8 year old Jemima and 2 year old Alelphi, YolanDa talked to me about her two very different experiences of having her girls, and takes her hat off to all other parents who have had babies during the pandemic. When she is able to tour, she likes nothing better than to take her whole family away with her, with the support of her parents.  She talked to me about how teaching herself saxophone as a teenager helped her process her emotions, how she coped when her littlest daughter was born with a cleft soft palate, and her comforting discovery that 'you can only be you'.She has won many awards and incredibly she has TWICE won a MOBO in the Best Jazz Act category. She runs the Drake YolanDa Award to support emerging music artists in the UK. And as if all that wasn't enough, she's also worked with Mr Tumble! kumon.co.uk/trial  kumon.ie/trial Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but it can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Yo. Yep, that's some starting things.

This week I just wound up my 13-year- year old quite easily it's really fun winding him up um because i just put on lots of different accents he likes making movies and i said to him okay what about if you need an australian i started doing an australian accent and then he was finding that very annoying and then i did a liver puddle accent then a very bad that very annoying, and then I did a Liverpudlian accent, then a very bad Scottish accent, and he wasn't having any of it. I was just chatting to him in all these different accents. And the other thing I did to annoy him this week, to wind him up, which amused me greatly,

and he started off being kind of amused, and then by the end of it, I think he thought I was being serious, is I told him that everything I've ever done for him since he was born I've actually been keeping a tally and that when he leaves home 18 he'll be presented with a bill so I was saying like for example every night Kit has decaf tea in a beaker that I bring with him to bed and I said that's actually five pounds each time and every time I've squeezed toothpaste onto his toothbrush for him that that's been another £3. And the alarm calls in the morning before school, £7. And actually, it's all really adding up now.

And I think at first he thought he knew I was joking, and then by the end he was saying, can you really do that? And I said, well, yeah. When you were a baby, I got your tiny baby hand to sign a contract. And I know that you were too young to know what you were signing but now it's just my word against yours I think by then he started to get a bit worried anyway how are you I am sitting oh actually bathed in some quite nice winter sun it started off pretty freezing and now it's a really beautiful day with blue sky and I am getting myself ready I've got a gig tonight so I'm choosing what to wear and there's a lot of other jobs bits and bobs I'm supposed to do which I will do but instead obviously at first

I just sat down on the sofa and started flicking through Instagram and spent about half an hour doing that which I'm not gonna lie going to lie, I really enjoyed. It was really nice having time doing nothing. And then in a few hours, I've got my friends Lisa and Louise coming, who are the hair and makeup women that I used for my first video, and I work with them on and off ever since. I've known them for well over 20 years.

And they are Ray, my third one down, Godmothers. And so that'd be lovely to see them for yeah gig tonight and i'm mainly just hibernating at the moment actually i've got my tour starting the end of next week and i'm just getting over a chest infection and i'm feeling much better so i've just been staying in staying in staying in staying in being very boring being very homely having a lovely time oh i tell you what i've been really enjoying love is blind season two have you watched it oh my god I mean it's trash but it's so enjoyable I'm pushing on to everyone I know I finally got a message from a friend today saying that she was now hooked and I'm going to try and hook you as

well so that when I talk about it in the future you'll be able to say yes I know what you're talking about. Anyway, today's podcast guest, really lovely, lovely woman called Yolanda Brown. And when I spoke to her, we had a great chat about her life in music and raising her two little girls and the role that music has in her family life and how keen she is to get other kids involved. But actually, what I really loved is she's a very positive person, which doesn't mean everything she's experienced is positive, but she just has a lovely outlook. And also, she's one of those people where, and I listened back to a little clip of our chat, you can really hear the smile in her voice, which I think is a very underrated quality it's completely lovely and really infectious so yes lovely yolanda whose conversation i'm really happy to share with you today and yeah i'm just gonna take it easy and listen again actually because i loved hearing

from her and she had some very wise words that helped me out a little bit with my take on music lessons with the kids so see what you think of that. And I will see you on the other side. And for those of you curious about my accents, should I do a little bit for you? Okay, hold on. So Australian, by the way, these are all terrible. I do know that. So the Australian one I did for Kit was like this, like, Kit, you should really put me in your movies, Kit. I really feel like I could really bring a lot. Do you think that was more New Zealand? I think it's maybe more New Zealand because I made the vowels sound quite short. Anyway, that's that. Is it like, can I have my name's Sophie? I'm from Sydney, Australia. Yep. And then the other one I was doing was Liverpudlian. Kiss. Oh my God, kiss. Give me some chewy.

I want to be in your movie. Oh God, that's terrible. It was slightly better when I did it for Kit. It wasn't. It was about the same. Then he said, I'd rather you were a dead body than being Liverpudlian. So then I pretended to die in Liverpudlian, which I thought was pretty sensational. And the Scottish one I won't even bore you with. It was really, really bad.

All right. Here's my chat with Adam. That's the end of the video. be really bad. All right, here's my chat with Yolanda. How are you, Yolanda? I'm really good. I'm even better for being here. I have to say, I think I've been low-key following you this past summer because of all the festivals. Festivals, yes. Exactly, yes. So every festival I go to, she's there again. There's a little wave. So it's nice. I know because I last saw you in a sunny place and I can't remember where we were,

but it was definitely a nice day. Well, I remember it very well because it was Cambridge Club and it was one of the gigs where I brought the whole family down. It was a lovely festival. And we'd finished and went to the gin bar and then you came on and it was beautiful.

And my mum, I don't think she wouldn't really go to a lot of festivals, but she just was lapping up the whole atmosphere and we couldn't find her for half the time she was in the middle dancing away to Sophie Elizabeth and then we finally got back to the car we still had a bit more of a boogie by the car you know we absolutely loved it absolutely did absolutely did so thank you for that she said all oh, did you take your daughters with you then? Absolutely. I mean, for me, as a touring musician, I think very early on, my husband and I made the decision that if it is a longer tour

or if it's something that will appeal to them, we'd take them with us because, you know, we just want everybody to be together. And I think when you're independent, when you're self-employed, you've got to grab those moments as much as you can. So, yeah, I've been touring with them for as long as they'll let me, which for me is really important.

It's just good to know that they're there. It is, but as they get older, because it's another two and eight, is that right? Eight, yes. Do you find it easy to still have enough of your own headspace for what you need to do? Yeah, I find it easier actually because when I'm away from them I'm thinking oh has this been taken care of are

they okay with this I don't know they are but that's just the mum thing you know um and I feel very close to them so all those little nuances of course they're fed they're watered homework's done whatever but how are they feeling was there something that happened that they haven't quite spoken about? So I'd rather be present in that way, even if it's, and it is sometimes, before going on stage, Jemima, my eight-year-old, would come up to me, Mum, what's that person doing over there? Mum, I feel this. Oh, I'm feeling a bit nervous. And for me, it's important to take that time, even if they're like, welcome to the stage, you're lying around. I will take that moment for her. I think that's kind of how I managed to balance it all really yeah yeah and actually a lot of what you said I'm thinking back to things when I've you know I remember one time I took uh

my eldest with me on tour and it was just a festival weekend so he came with a mate and I literally I didn't take anyone to look after him because they were I think 11 so yes it was quite nice but it also meant I came off stage and they were saying I'm hungry so I literally didn't take anyone to look after him because they were, I think, 11. Nice. So, yes, it was quite nice, but it also meant that I came off stage and they were saying, I'm hungry, so I'm literally still in my sort of little chiffon sparkly thing and sort of quickly making them sandwiches. I think I quite enjoyed the juxtaposition, actually.

For me, I kind of like that because, in a way, I know when you're performing, you know, you're preparing for the show, then you do the show, and then there might be press or you're meeting audience members afterwards, but then essentially it's finished. Yeah. And so actually it's quite nice after a show to go back to the hotel, the kids are there, in the morning you can have breakfast with them, you might have a lot of time before soundcheck again and you get to have that family time.

Yeah. So it's almost like doing your nine to five, if you like, but on the road. Yeah, and we're lucky, aren't we, that we can bring them with us, actually. Not everybody has the option of saying, you know, keep them with me. And I think also the perception of festivals and all that has changed so hugely from when I was a teenager. You know, you don't see any kids there. I suppose I was the kid, but you know what I mean? It wasn't like if I was 16, 17, you know, it see any kids there or I suppose I was the kid but you know I mean it wasn't like like if I was 16 17 you know it was a different thing and that's been the nice thing about having

doing Yolanda's band jam so a lot of the festivals we did this last summer were for that so I mean they were the captive audience you know they they know the show they come to the recordings they know the music and actually to see my now two-year-old who was one and a half at the time not really having been out and being social because she was born January 2020 just looking around seeing everyone dancing she's seen the tv show you could just see things linking up in her mind and the way she was just dancing and confident she was living life and even for me as a mum on stage I'm still focusing on the rest of the audience but I can just see little Adelphi at the front giving it her full boogie, you know.

As a mum, it was like, it was a win-win. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't matter if we're going to have to drive a couple of hours soon or we're going to eat afterwards or whatever. Just seeing her in that moment and enjoying it, that just makes the job sweeter. Oh, that's lovely.

It sounds like Adelphi would give Mickey a bit of a run. He's my youngest and he's the one that dances non-stop. Oh, they would have a way longer time. When it's in there. Next festival, will we? Exactly. So when you started Yolanda's Band Jam, Yolanda's Band Jam is your CBeebies show.

It is. So when did that start? So we did two seasons of it. Started, I'd say, 2018, 19. Okay. If I can get those dates right. 18, I'd say. So your eldest, I'm trying to think, so she would have been about...

She was about six, yes. So the first series, she was able to bring some friends from school and they came and they were part of the band jam, which was a nice experience for her to be able to show what her mum does but also just enjoy having that experience of being on a tv set which was lovely um and in the second series I was pregnant with Adelphi when I was doing it in the blue jacket jumping around I was four months pregnant at the time so she knew the songs from from the very beginning and um yeah it was a totally different way of doing things. You know, I'd never imagined being in children's entertainment

or being in children's TV. But it all interlinks. I've always been passionate about music education. I've always been passionate about giving the next generation something new, something inspiring, something exciting. And yeah, it's been an absolute honour to be a part of it. Season three was commissioned and then COVID hit and we can't film a children's TV show

with 60 children in the audience during COVID. So we're still waiting to see what happens. But, yeah, we've done 40 episodes of that. That's amazing. And that will come back as well. Things are starting to, yeah, we're getting there. We're getting there, yeah. But where do you think that passion comes from to

sort of pass it on to the next generation where's where's the root of that it has to be my mum if i think about it honestly i mean the idea of of giving is sort of just part of our everyday existence especially my husband's very much about um you know giving to charity or a friend it comes around you might have just got something brand new and you'd be like you like it yeah you have it and I'm like we did the podcast in the wrong house so yeah that that element of giving has always been there but my mum was a teacher a head teacher went on to be an inspector and was also the support for all of the primary schools in Ealing went on to be an inspector and was also the support for all of the primary schools in Ealing and she loved it you could just tell that it wasn't about the money or the job or the school

it was about the kids you know and she would go out of her way to support parents help children to learn a new way if it didn't make sense in the way the curriculum was set up and I saw all of that growing up and I was just thinking mum we're on holiday relax and she's there thinking of new ways that she can really get to a child and you see it now you know if I go to the supermarket with her in the local area where she taught there'd always be someone Mrs Brown it's so good to see you you look the same how are you and she'd remember their names and if you think how many children she would have taught throughout that time, she remembers their names, their mum's name, their sister, their brother, everybody. And she just genuinely has that passion.

And I think it's nice. You can see the reward that you get when after investing all that time, somebody comes back and says, you know, thank you for what you've done for me. And I think that makes it make sense. It's not easy, but that makes it make sense for me. No, that's incredible. She sounds pretty phenomenal. So we're now in West London as well. We're in Chiswick, so it's not that far from here.

Not far, yeah. I drove through Ealing and we lived on the other end of the central line so she used to actually take the train forwards and backwards when she had that Ealing job, principal advisor of all the schools in Ealing. And, yeah, it's just that dedication. Yeah.

It doesn't come from wanting to get a paycheck or, you know, just turning up. It comes from that deep... It's a passion, that, isn't it? It's a passion, yeah. Yeah, that's what drives you, actually. And getting the stories, as you say, like the fact she knows all the names, it means she's actually really sort of investing in each family's situation and trying to work out what's going to benefit them.

Exactly. I mean, the only thing I've heard from my two sort of interactions I've had with heads, they're both former heads now, but they've both said that the only thing is when they had their young families, their son has felt like they weren't actually as present for their own families because they were so invested in all the families they were thinking of.

Yeah, yeah. So I'm a fan of the podcast podcast so I have listened to those interviews and um only after listening to them did I realize my mum's great master plan and I never understood it until hearing that because my brother and I most of the time most of our primary schooling went to the school where she taught ah which is a genius idea really really, if you can make it happen. Because if I finish school, no matter what year I'm in, and the school that she taught at and that I went to had a primary school and a secondary school.

So even in secondary school, if I've finished or if I've got after-school club, she'll still be there doing staff meetings until 6pm. But then I come down, sit in the classroom, do my homework, there'll be snacks, she would have packed a snack or a tea for dinner. But we all go home together. The same, my brother. In fact, she actually taught my brother in primary school. And she's very good. She kept that line. You know, she was the teacher. He was the pupil. Parents' evenings, my dad would come and do parents' evening. I was

like, you guys could just do that over the kitchen table but it was literally she was able to demarcate how it works I've called her Mrs Brown at school and then mum after school um but we were always together so now it makes sense like in a similar way bringing your kids to work with you we were always together she sounds amazing she is how lovely um yeah what what role was music in your life at that time then so music kind of i'm not from a musical family my dad has an amazing record collection and he loves all genres under the sun so my parents are both of jamaican heritage both born in jamaica and um so there's reggae there's skya but then there's motown there's funk there's opera there's classical there's everything um and so i grew reggae, there's skya, but then there's Motown, there's funk, there's opera,

there's classical, there's everything, and so I grew up just hearing all of that music on a Saturday, you know, doing your chores around the house, and my dad might be playing Gilbert and Sullivan, and then the next thing Bob Marley comes on, and then The Temptations, and it's just like, that was normal to hear all those genres coming through, so I started playing the piano at age six, and I played the violin as well, the drums. And then around 13, I thought, I really want a wind instrument. I find so cool with the little cases going to school. I want to try something. And I wanted to play the oboe. There was no space. And so they gave me a tenor saxophone, which is a lot bigger than the cool alto sax that everyone usually carries around. But I just But as soon as I played it, I just fell in love with it.

It felt like my voice, if you like. I was going to say, does it feel like singing almost? Yeah, it was. And I went a bit rogue. I decided that I didn't want to do lessons and scales and the traditional things that I'd done on all the other instruments. And so after about a year of lessons, went it alone and just used to play in my room, being a teenager as well.

That was a way to process my emotions, I feel. And it really just became quite therapeutic. And I was really grateful, especially having a mum in education, that they allowed me to do that. I was going to say, actually, because you said that, you know, as if, like, obviously just playing for yourself is completely fine and always encouraged. But for parents where they're watching this happen saying why you just definitely not want the teacher and grades and the more traditional route yeah it's actually quite bold I think really is really particularly when you can see your kids got talent because you don't know whether if you're doing the right thing to not let that to have a more of a sort of steer I

suppose yeah I wonder if maybe she could tell I was happier I don't know I'd have to ask her but um yeah I definitely was happier just experimenting, playing for myself. And it was for myself. I always tell a story of one day, really hot summer's day, playing in my room. I think I was playing like a jazz standard to a backing track like Misty. And I was playing and it got into the improv bit and I was enjoying that back to the head and then finish the song. And I remember being quite hot and sweaty and, oh, that felt really, really nice.

And then hearing applause in the garden. It was the next door neighbour. And I was like, almost like, you see me in my dressing gown kind of. But then actually that's when I realised music is to be shared. It is about performance. It's about giving to others. You know, it's not just for you. it is it is about performance it's about giving to others you know it's not just for you um and so I guess then the idea of performance and things came into into the frame and my mum always used

to say she can't busk down at the train station you never know um I don't know what she was getting at with that but yeah maybe she could see either making money or a performance element yeah probably a way to sort of give you a unpressurised stage environment to start that. But actually what you just said before that, I think is really important about the role of music in terms of its ability to communicate. Yes. It's a dialogue, isn't it?

It really is. It really is. And I think that drives my passion in music education now as I continue to want to give back and make sure the next generation have the music education they deserve because it isn't just about sitting down and doing a drum circle and the child not taking from it some do which is brilliant but if you can see that child's not engaging in that how do you help them connect to music and communicate in a way because you never know the story that might come out of it is it that they write a poem and then put that

to music and that's them inside the music or is it them just simply listening and being absorbed and then you know painting what they feel is you really need to collect connect with that but it takes time it takes trial and error and we don't always have the time for that um in education but we will i believe we will yes well that's a whole other conversation I'm sure to be had there yes and your mum would probably have have you on that as well but I think there's almost two strands to that as well there's there's obviously what happens if someone shows a talent and presumably with things like your music award you're thinking of the you out there that's just playing on their own in their bedroom but actually has something that should be brought out into the fore.

But there's also where music plays a part in people who don't go on to have it as part of their day job, but it just gives them something. Yeah. Because there's so much that kids get from it. It is. It really is expression, you know, and sometimes it's expression without words that you can't sum up.

And in the world that we're living in now how uncertain it is or things that you've gone through that you don't realize were traumatic or you don't realize would affect you later down the line sometimes music can put that into perspective it might just be in the way that you dance to it or move to it or how it makes you feel when you listen to it yeah um it really is so powerful it is it really is and i've been thinking about a lot over the last couple of years i suppose when all the the gigs cut away and obviously for richard and i were both musicians and so that's very much been you know just how we function and our day job but when it becomes much much back to this what is it that actually is just

the bit that we just adore and it's not about any of those those things that's like the really lovely bit for us we get to make a living with it but actually just music for music's sake and the expression as you say and not just escapism because obviously when you're in something like a lockdown yeah it does give you a place to go but also I don't know if you feel this but it was like a place to put stress as well yes and the emotion of just the kind of I can actually just jump around here and I'll get a lot of like yeah because it's like the grown-up equivalent of like what they call when you can like shake your sillies out yeah just shake it up yeah and that was me I was

literally preaching that throughout lockdown just to have oh you had it here with the family disco you know it's so important just to let loose and so many times I released a released a music education resource and I was trying to communicate to parents that you don't have to understand music, how to make music. It's all about just having fun. Somebody might start banging on the table. Another person starts banging the teacup and it doesn't matter what the rhythm is. It doesn't matter what it sounds like. You're actually connecting. And even though we spent so much time together in lockdown as families, actually connecting and even though we spent so much time together in lockdown as families sometimes we weren't communicating we were existing we were told to stay home we were existing but sometimes there aren't words to be how you're feeling I'm looking at the same four

walls this is I'm feeling quite agitated yeah sometimes a nice dance put on a track and just everybody let loose or try and you know know, match each other with the rhythms. Even if you're not musicians, sometimes it just creates a nice communication. And I found that with the girls and my husband. We just break out in the kitchen, put on a song and just let it go. And then everyone goes back to whatever they're meant to be doing. Yeah, and I think also for family dynamic,

it shifts you out of your normal character roles as well doesn't it if you're suddenly actually just mucking about for five minutes together and just and I don't know about you I wondered if even now with music if it sort of connects you back to a sort of teenage version of you do you feel like that yeah I guess it does um I kind of feel that after having children there was almost like a a line that I crossed over and I can almost remember it giving birth to Jemima who was actually in the room you know kind of knowing that this is the next phase you're never going to be able to go back from this phase it's unlike yeah I've decided to cut my hair into a bob and then that might be a phase but then you can grow it out and do something else but becoming a parent that's that's it you've stepped over a threshold that you're never going

to go back to and so I reminisce on those teenage years but actually I like to reset to then you know it's about what am I giving to the next generation it's about how are they feeling and also how do I exist within it we hear that that phrase all the time, make time for yourself, you know, make sure you know who you are as a person, not just mum and artist and philanthropist or whatever. But I tried to reset to that because I know those teenage years won't come back. So what's the freedom that I feel now? Yeah.

And I think especially sort of in lockdown, becoming a mum in the thick of lockdown, I had to do that because I think I would have been yearning for something that I would never find again, if you like. Yeah. I completely see what you mean. I suppose for me, I think they're sort of like, there's an evolution about, you know, being creative,

which is we're so lucky to have that because it's an instinctive thing to push on. Momentum is pretty integral to what makes you want to do what you do and keep looking ahead. But I suppose I've found there's a sort of purity in the time travel that music allows as well

which I feel like just gives me, I suppose it's like a mental space really. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you mean, actually. Because there's songs that I'd listen to when I was a teenager. I remember, in particular, Liberian girl, Michael Jackson. I remember being able to put headphones on and just being awestruck by the production.

Yeah. I just don't know why. There were so many things happening. But when they come together, it was just so simple and nice and pure. And I used to crave ending school and running back home and listening to that interestingly now interestingly now I mean now it does a little bit and I actually have to re when you say reset to teenage years I have to put myself back to the wonder of that because we make music all the time um during lockdown, I got the contract to do all the music

and underscore for an animation with Sesame Workshop, which I'd never done before. But, you know, we were told to upskill. So here we are. And so I'm loving it. A year into the project, another year to go. But I had to then take myself back to that wonder when I'm not making music for myself to take on tour.

I'm making music that hopefully somebody else will have that wonder for and so I was trying to tap into that excitement that energy of and that wonder of hearing music for the first time and I think that's kind of what I tap into I think the experiences and what that song signified necessarily might not matter anymore but the wonder of the music making for me I do tap back into yeah yeah I think that's actually put put pretty well actually what I'm probably getting at as well just sort of that that thing of the the sort of innocence I suppose of your connection with it really before you learned all the stuff about you know the parenthesis of how things work yes what's what how things you know might be possible and what have you but um what was going on in your life when you first became a mum then?

Where were you at with your work? So I released my debut album. I'd been touring around the world. So it was just before that? So, yes. So I'd say maybe five years before that, just really getting into a rhythm, but also had been married for five years too.

And so, you know, the questions come from family, oh, you know, when's it happening? Helpful family, guys. Exactly. And this is why you're also winning lots of awards and really flourishing with your career. Yeah, I mean, the momentum was really going. And I still remember sitting down with my husband,

we were over dinner and just saying, are we ready? Should we go for it? What will it mean for our career again as an independent artist you know there's no maternity leave for a start let's just start there yeah what happens you know and I think I had to make a conscious decision just to work through it that it would become another part of my life but I wouldn't necessarily stop anything I would make space but I wouldn't stop anything I can't got to keep the lights on so so yeah with with Jemima um we were trying for maybe a year so it wasn't didn't come straight away and I remember

the first time first month thinking um am I sure about this actually you know when you make the decision but are you really sure and then obviously finding out that I wasn't pregnant that month and feeling really down and I was like oh my god I really want this you know I remember that feeling that was really enlightening and let me know that I I was ready yeah um so when she did finally come yeah worked through it and when she was born back on the road after about three months and she would just come with me and my parents blessed them both retired and really supportive and I said to them you know I do want to have a family but what would it look like if I finally get the tour that I've always wanted and I'm away for three weeks where does she or my child go said don't worry about it we'll have them and I said

no no no take at least 24 hours to think about it because when I say three weeks it might be three weeks and you know you can't get me I might be somewhere I don't know wherever I might be and they came back again after 24 hours and said no it's all going to be fine don't worry and I guess for them they love coming to the concerts they love being on tour with us when they can. And by the same measure, they've created an amazing atmosphere at home. They raised me and my brother. And it's been amazing. They've been true to their word.

Come on tour when they can. So with that first tour when you had a new little baby? My dad actually came on tour because my mum wasn't retired yet. So he used to call him the manny. And he came on tour. I've got pictures of all the venues as well. It was so amazing. I think we have to remember as mums,

ask for what you need. I think we are kind of conditioned in a way to just handle it. We'll handle it. Don't tell anybody else. But actually ask for what you need. so I remember saying to my manager I'm gonna need an extra dressing room um wherever we go and could you just make sure that that is possible just let me know and at first I thought I might be in a diva is it like having like rose petals on the floor but

actually no I want to set up the the cot I want to set everything up so you almost had like a room for your baby yeah yeah at the venues and all of every single venue accommodated us they put the baby's name or my dad's name on the door made it all really nice and special I had made sure there was hot water there everybody for that whole three-week tour were absolutely amazing the band as well were fantastic I made sure that you know they were comfortable I'd travel separately all those different logistical things but it was lovely because I was breastfeeding as well at the time and that for me was quite important I wanted to make sure I had that that connection and we pulled it off like thank you everyone but we pulled it off and for me that bonding time was was really really special and continued to do so until

Jemima started school i remember she was like four just going into reception she was like mommy i know that you're going to spain for four days is it all right if i just stay with grandma and granddad she said i was like dagger to my heart i was like what do you mean she goes i think i think i'll be okay she said i was like wow whoa you know that was quite a hard moment for me. To actually think it through and then actually bring it up in quite a mature way. I'm going to have a discussion with my mother

about my feelings about this. She's very well known to do that, yeah. But at least I knew she was ready. I had to then get myself ready. And so every now and then, if it's not too long, I can leave her or leave them. Yeah, but actually it's what nice that you know that she feels secure enough that she's able to articulate that.

But I'm actually really impressed with you taking a three-monther when it's your first baby because I feel like I kind of built up to being able to do more with a little one. But when I had my first, I don't really know if I could have done that, actually. Did you find it hard? It sounds quite wholesome and blissful yeah it's it's funny it's kind of a term that we hate to use now coming out of the lockdowns and trying to come out of the pandemic the new normal but as a new mum I called it my new normal yeah and I think straight away um you know even with breastfeeding you know milk's not coming in and And then you've got advisors or nurses saying, oh, do you want a little bit of formula?

And I had already set in my mind what I wanted to do. I said, no, I know I can do it. I've researched it. Whatever I need to eat or do or sleep or rest, I will have enough. Yeah. First time you ever find out about that herb, what is it? Fenugreek? Yes, exactly.

Suddenly you're like, I'll take some of those. I'll take some of it. Bread, yeah. Never heard of it before then. Suddenly it's like top of my head. Yeah, make sure we've got it in the cupboard, exactly. Suddenly you're like, I'll take some of those. I'll take some of it. Bread, yeah. Never heard of it before then. Suddenly it's like, top of my head. This is it, so yeah, make sure we've got it in the cupboard, yeah. But actually, that determination of, I know what I want to do for my child and I'm going to do it,

set me in good stead, I think. And I remember, I mean, it wasn't easy. The first time someone said it, I cried for a long time and, you know, felt incompetent and I wasn't able to provide for my child. But after I picked myself up off the floor, I thought I can do this and whatever it is, let's make it happen. And I think that that helped me just to think not every child is going to have is going to grow up in a jazz club. You know, there's going to be parents that I know and I get on with who their children will be in

bed at seven o'clock or 6 30 or whatever it is and mine might be up till 9 10 11 12 helping me pack up the saxophones you know on tour but that is our life and it's their normal they've been great if they hadn't reacted well to it then I would have adapted you know but touch wood it all all went quite similarly yeah I think actually with a lot of that stuff is that they take their lead from you so i think if you're feeling okay about it and same with all of it you know if you're completely confident or not completely you know nobody's completely yes but any of it but i mean if you're if you're feeling that the path you want to take is is something that's quite routiney then that will be the thing that is familiar and works better than winging it on the advice of someone else

when it doesn't work. But similarly, I mean, the life that you're describing, really, it sort of reminds you as well that the real things that kids need to thrive aren't really about, you know, anything other than the happiest, sort of most secure environment. Yeah, with their parents and with the love. And I have to say, you have to do it with a support system. It's not something that I made up in my parents and with the love and and I have to say you have to do it with a support system it's not something that I made up in my mind and then

we went and did it I had to communicate it some people might have thought oh yeah I don't know if that's possible but I've thought this through I think it is are you on board are you not you know um and you know my husband my parents family friends everybody's been yeah really great with it yeah yeah those conversations are so vital aren't they they really are yeah I mean even now I can't really make a decision without there's like a sort of small committee of people I sort of talked about everything it's true it's true um I think for me as well as lists just having it out that I can see it I know that it's a plan that could happen so when you say lists you mean literally writing everything down about how

things might work by the diagrams whatever it is just, whatever it is, just to visualise it. Okay. I think that's kind of how this independent journey happened anyway. I kind of fell into music, met my manager. He said, there's something there, I could manage you as a solo artist. I was being part of a horn section in a band at the time. And, you know, I remember I was saying, I don't think so I don't I don't get it you know who's going to want to come and see a saxophonist that's never been to school to study it like it

doesn't make any sense but we had this big spider diagram with Yolanda Brown in the middle and what it could look like and that visualization is quite powerful um and things like having a TV show or writing books or making music for animation. We did dream those things. It felt strange at the time. I couldn't imagine it happening. But hey-ho, we're here. So when you say we, this is you and a manager that you have. Yes, yes, yeah.

And that relationship has gone on. We bring people on board when we need to, PR agents or booking agents who believe in the journey. And yeah, it's been really great just to bring people on board that will make that dream happen. I think that's what I've always tried to live by, if you like. Yeah, bring people on with the same energy.

Yeah, oh, definitely. I agree with that. And I think essentially on your website, you have the thing of you and the missile with all the diagrams. And I'm quite interested in that because obviously for you that's been quite a key component of your drive and ability to keep pushing forward. I think so. And to do various things.

I kind of see it all as one, including motherhood, including everything. It's all part of that ball, if you like. If I wasn't a mum, would I have as much understanding or feeling towards music education and children's entertainment as I do, or would I see it as a job? I see it in a maternal way, if you like. Or if I wasn't a musician, would I want to be in music education because I've been

through learning and i want to help another generation see it in a different way yeah you know all of those different parts of your life they feed in together yeah so i do try to see it as one rather than different pockets of things yeah yeah i think that obviously works for you and just to sort of contextualize it for for, you're someone who's won lots of awards, including two Mabel Awards, so really high profile, massive accolades. How many other people do you meet along the way that have had no formal training

and the thing they end up excelling at in that way in music? I guess they're out there. Not many, though. It's not many though not many i just want people to understand that because actually saying you know oh i went i sort of went rogue and yes and then you know end up it's actually it's that is unusual when you're especially in a world like um so primarily i guess is that in the genre of jazz music yeah yeah i mean in jazz i would imagine for a lot of people the training is yeah a massive part of it it is it is and I think um in those in those early

days definitely and maybe even now and um the style of music that I play may not be jazz enough may not be reggae enough may not be soul enough but it's me and I think becoming a mum that moment I was telling you about was that I can only be me I can only give birth in the way that my body will allow me to I can only make the music that my body will allow me to I can only parent in the way that I know from my upbringing and the things that I've seen and how I want to do it and so how about I just be me you know and then I'll find an audience that wants to be around that And so how about I just be me, you know, and then I'll find an audience that wants to be around that. And interestingly enough, that's what I love to tell young people when I go into schools and speak or wherever I am.

You can only be you. Actually, there's something quite comforting in that because nobody else will do it like you. And so the minute that I realized that, I think an inner confidence came. So if somebody did say, oh, you don't play like the other saxophonists, no, no, I don't, but, you know, it's me. And I just want to create an experience and a world where people could come into a Yolanda Brown concert and just experience that. Don't try and make it sound like anything else.

Don't try and compare it to anything else. Let's just enjoy this time together. Yeah, that's really liberating. And I guess it's funny because before you arrived, I was talking with my husband, Richard, in the kitchen, and he was saying, ask her about practicing because we've got a couple of our kids do music lessons and they don't really practice.

And if we put to one side how guilty I feel about the teacher who's giving their time my instinct about practice is if you if they don't feel like doing it I don't really know how to like coax that so I suppose rather than the conversation being how much practice did you do yeah if you're not really having lessons yeah then nothing is under any sort of heading anyway. You're just playing, right? Well, interestingly enough, I believe that practice isn't what the teacher sets you.

And I'm going through the same thing. Jemima learns the cello and the piano. She will have times where she will go and the book is on the thing. She's playing exactly what they did in the lesson and what she's been set but actually I try to encourage outside of that the teacher will take care of it right and the teacher will make sure that the technique is there so when they come home and they're practicing how about a jam session can they learn a couple of chords of one of your songs and then you will jam that's still practice because they're engaging

with music they're communicating they're building something and actually they might take something back to the class and show their teacher and that's the kind of music education I like you know and something that I maybe as a teenager tried to do and maybe didn't communicate it as well I'm not sure but it's kind of like look what I learned this week. Take that back to your teacher. And they'll say, oh, what you've just done there is staccato. Oh, this piece here is staccato. Why don't we try this? It's all about the passion and the energy and the interest.

Because if you just say to a child, 10 minutes, egg timer on top of the piano top, play what you're told to play, they're not going to engage with it. And if we went on stage, just like, well, sometimes it does feel like that that but you're going to go on stage you got a 20 minute set just get it done the audience won't engage with you the same way as if you're in it you know so you've got to find what it is for that child that puts them in it and for my daughter even i took a video just the other day of her she set up her stuff and she had her cello. She was ready to go, going to play the song. And I thought, oh great, she's going to practice what the teacher wants her to practice.

And then she put down the bow, it was like plucking and singing along. I could see a scenario where a parent would be like, stop messing about. Pick the bow up and play this song that's on the stand, you know. But actually, I took a moment and I thought, look how she's smiling. Look how she's enjoying it. Adelphi then went and got a toy saxophone and was tooting along. And they did that for 10 minutes. To me, that is practice because she's engaged with it.

She might come back the next time and play the same thing. She's just composed a song. She might come back the next time and play what was on the stand. But there's no race. There's no race. So make it something that they're passionate about so hopefully she'll be engaged with that instrument for longer. That's my school of thought.

I love that. I love everything about that. And I'm thinking, just prancing around the kitchen, countless practices in that case. It does. Yes, it does. I was very on it.

You had a full music education like that. I'm also thinking if I said, let's play one of Mummy's songs, I don't think they'd even come in the room where the instrument is. Then they should make up their own. Where have you gone? Make up, write a new song. Why are you running so fast? But just a more serious question,

do you actually still curate that time? Do you still say, we're going to do whatever you fancy, but just make whatever you fancy but just make it near the piano i make sure everything's set up okay so i just make sure you know every home has things everywhere um or you know people are coming around and i'll put the stand in the side room just so that you know the room looks a bit more organized but i'll make a mental note bring the the stand back, open the book, leave it all there, make sure she's got a stand for her instrument where it's really easily accessible, or the piano's open, books are up.

Because every now and then it might be like, dinner's ready in ten, and she might be like, oh, I'll just walk past the piano, let me just play something quickly. That's nice, I like that. And that's something that I struggled with, I always had my saxophone in the case. And even now I have this weird feeling when I open the case, it's like, man, you're unpacking the burden of having to play.

Whereas if it's on the stand, you just pick it up and play it. So having it out, there is a psychology in that. Oh, I like that. I've noticed that with them. Even certain toys that you want them to play with, if you want them to be a bit more educational, or it's about reading or phonics or something something if you leave them out in a way that makes it look appealing um they end up gravitating towards it wherever if it's a pack of flash cards

that's you know on the top shelf and they say right we're gonna do the flash cards now you'll get resistance right yeah you know yeah that's brilliant and i suppose also that means if you have got a house full of musical instruments and your kid isn't just kind of casually doing that, maybe something else is for them. And that is fine. I had a bit of a moment of revelation when I went to see the musical Matilda. And this is when we had, I just had two, I guess,

so our eldest would have been, I don't know, let's say 11 or something, maybe a bit younger, like nine, whatever age you would take a kid to see that. 11 or something maybe a bit younger like nine whatever age would you take a kid to see that and um and there's a bit in the play where there's a football crazy parent trying to get his son involved in football and the kids go i don't really like it and he's saying but you must i love it your granddad loves it we all love it it's what we do it's who we are as a family and the kids go but i really don't like it and i thought oh i hope that's not me with performance and me with music because i think you know you've got musician parents yes yes and it gives you that

thing because it goes beyond doesn't it it's an emotional thing and it's expression as you say and it's unlocking things so giving them the freedom to it is the freedom yeah absolutely I I'm quite fascinated by all of it yeah no it is good and I don't push them you know if they decide want to do something else then do something else so all of this passion of giving the next thing is the award that you have is that something that's very close to your heart

do you think? it is yeah the Drake Yolanda Awards again as an independent artist finally realising that I want to do music you can't necessarily wait for a record label or a promoter to pick you up. It might not happen. And I learnt that very early on to the point where we used to just book our own gigs, book the venue, flyer, tell people, posters,

let people know where the concert's happening. Hopefully it sells out. You can pay the band, pay the venue higher, move on to the next one. And that is literally how organically I built up sort of an audience, built up my music, built up my style. But it does cost money. It's not easy to do. You get a gig and you put some into whatever you need to live,

but also you've got to reinvest in yourself. So I wanted to set something up where you can invest in in the rising stars you know um and it's lovely and actually making the process different as well because as creatives we're not about writing business plans and cash flow forecasts we're about creating and so i wanted to create a forum where they could play their music to a panel they could then explain what they're going to do with the music where they see it going and it's all about the knowledge of the business is it a PR agency that they're thinking to employ or do they need to mix and master their track

where would they do that that's cost effective how are they going to tour it how they're going to get the music out like a dragon's den type of thing in a little way for musicians yeah without the x-factorness of it yeah it's a sharing experience and um yeah we've done two years now we had to stop during covid but just done the second round and it's just so lovely just to hear the feedback of what what the money's done for them and um and also the chance to perform and share their music which as musicians is the thing that we want to do the most and how easy did you find it to actually set up having a sort of monetary prize like that? Was it an interesting process for you? Because it's quite different to the things you'd normally be doing.

Yeah, it's wonderful. I'm working alongside a philanthropist, James J.P. Drake and so he already had a classical arm of this kind of idea of funding scholarships in this case case so he had the drake calais trust so i came on board with a sister idea for non-classical musicians i remember meeting and saying what about us non-classical musicians what do you have against that and obviously the setup is different it's not about scholarships it's about investment um but it works really really well and creates a bit of an alumni in a network um you know artists that have got the

award have then started to work together um and we have a short list and the award winners so the award winners get three thousand pounds there's ten of them and and the short list get 500 each but actually they all network together um we have forums where like a PR agent and a booking agent might come you could just have a round table talk and just really understand how do royalties work? Something as simple as that, you know, but actually can make a huge difference. And I think supporting artists in that way is... I get told a lot of these things

and then I sort of, I just find it very hard to hold on to the information. It's a lot to hold on to. Sometimes, yeah. But important. Very important, I agree. And I think it's a lot of that stuff we get to know right at the beginning.

Yes. Just that knowledge is very powerful. To set it all up in the right way. Yeah, and you can look back historically at what's happened to musicians when they had no clue and they just signed everything away and then find out later

what dark art has gone on. Yeah, yeah. I want to talk to you a little bit about when you had your second baby. So you had your second baby just before the world sort of tilted. Yep, yep. Somewhat.

But you did it also in quite a dramatic fashion that you weren't even in this country when everything started to unravel. So you know the story of the first child. And yes, it's hard, but in a way, it's happened. You know, it worked. We got on with it and life continued. But, and it's interesting, this is kind of the first interview I've had talking about motherhood since having my second.

And what a blow to the stomach it was. It was totally different. And it's really interesting. I look back on interviews I did when I had Jemima and, you know, in a similar fashion, you know, yeah, you just got to believe it. You go for it and it works. I thought, how naive. What were you talking about?

It worked once, but that doesn't mean it will work every time. I've cracked the code, guys. I've cracked the code, guys. So obviously, had the similar conversation. We knew that we wanted a sibling for Jemima. Six years had passed. It's like, God, where did those six years go? We've got to just do it.

There's never going to be a right time. So I worked all the way through my pregnancy. I did Jules Holland's Hootenanny, seeing in 2020. I was nine months pregnant. Really? That's very cool. I know, it was very cool.

I wore a very sort of fringy top. But yeah, I did a duet with Rick Astley. And just at the end, he went and like went down on one knee and I was like, don't do that because I have to go down too. And I'm like, I'm not going to get back up with the saxophone, you know. But it was a wonderful time.

But yeah, literally worked every single day all the way through, continued gigging, continued doing all the other various projects and then stopped working in December. Adelphi came January 2020. And I thought that I would have the baby in a similar fashion. Not necessarily Zen, but natural birth. And she'll breastfeed and we get on with life. But no, she had complications. I was in labour for a very long time, emergency C-section. And all of a sudden, I'm laying in a similar position that I was in when I felt very long time, emergency C-section, and all of a sudden I'm laying in a similar position that I was in when I felt so ready and, you know,

with Jemima it felt great. Just thinking, what is happening? You know, literally in the spin of a coin, I had the mask on my face, I was out, then the baby was out, then I couldn't see the baby for 10 hours, and then she was in NICU and SCIBOOT. It was really, really in-depth. Yeah, really, really traumatic. And I don't know if truly for 10 hours. And then she was in NICU and SCIBU. It was really, really traumatic.

And I don't know if truly I've been able to process it because of lockdown, really. You know, so we were in the hospital for nearly a week. Transpired that in the end, she was born with a cleft soft palate. So you know about cleft lip and then it can go back. So the doctor said if it was a cleft that you had to have, that's the one you want.

It's not cosmetic. It's right at the back. It can be repaired with an operation when she's six months, but it means she cannot breastfeed because she can't form a seal. So for me thinking my life is so busy, all of the things we wanted to happen, tours, TV shows, all the rest of it is happening. And I thought the one thing that's going to get me through that is to just breastfeed my child you know just have that connection and then i can go

and do go to work yeah i totally understand that right so not having that i had almost had to grieve it within and still trying to take you with another child as well because the breastfeeding is clever because it means you've definitely got time with your newborn yes exactly dictated um but by the same measure i also understand the importance of the milk and the nutrients and whatever so it's funny isn't it if you have a baby you don't know your brain's going to get so consumed by that stuff you'll cry if you drop some milk oh my goodness crying over spilt milk yeah i understand the phrase he's not talking about yeah i understand the phrase so um no i, and everybody was really great at the hospital straight away.

You know, a cleft specialist from Great Ormond Street came down there explaining things. It was just going way over my head. I'm not listening. I couldn't understand it. But yeah, over time, grieve, grieve it. I thought she's still going to have my milk. So I pumped for 10 months and five that's like five times a day, pumping, still on tour. And I still had this tour in Australia booked. And in my mind, if it had gone the same way as Jemima had been born, we would have had her, gone home, a couple of weeks, then gone on tour. I still got to do the tour.

So I remember... When was your tour then, March? March. Oh, blimey. But I did have a date in February, so we played the Royal Festival Hall in February. It was four weeks old. Oh, my goodness.

And I hadn't counted that I would have a C-section even. So you just think you're going to just keep going. Yes, it's going to be painful. No, and also there's a thing that happens, I think, when you've had one and you think, well, I should be able to do this, and if I'm struggling, I can't actually really tell, even myself, actually.

Yeah, exactly. Because it feels like quite a big admission of just not keeping up with all the stuff you thought you could do really which is really really tricky yeah so we did the concert again great support system around so there were my parents there my husband's there with the kids and all the rest of it but we still have to go to australia so um so you also got a sort of passport out and all those sort of practicalities i didn't even think about that till the last minute trying to get the passport, going for the appointment.

Anyway, we got it all done. Really pushed to get to Australia. We did two weeks of the tour. How long were you supposed to be there? Three weeks. Okay. So my parents came as well. We had a nine-piece band.

It's a six-week-old and a six-month-old. My husband, everybody, we all went out and had some really, really great concerts. Obviously, after the show, you're dealing with pain and pumping and all the rest of it. But, you know, it's all part of parenting. And then COVID hits. You know, I remember getting a call from the promoter of the concert we went to do that night. And he says, you know, the hotel you're staying in across the road is the Grand Prix. They've just cancelled today.

So this thing is serious. We knew there was no toilet roll in England, but we didn't know how serious it was. So he said, are you still going to do the show? I was like, well, yeah, we'll do the show, you know. And it almost felt like the aliens are coming. Like it was a sold out show. We were all just in it together. It was beautiful.

And then straight away on a plane back to London, Boris was making the speech, lockdown. So now all of a sudden we're at home in lockdown with an now eight-week-old and a six-year-old and not understanding the cleft situation. What does that mean in terms of operation? Would she still have it? We're all locked down.

So, so many questions and yeah, it was really, really hard. I'm not even going to lie. I'm quite an optimistic person. I love to see everything glass half full. But for a moment, I just really, really hard. I'm not even going to lie. I'm quite an optimistic person. I love to see everything glass half full. But for a moment, I just really did struggle, you know. And all the while, remember, agents are calling saying, this is cancelled, this is postponed. There's no touring, there's no this, there's no that.

And you just think, what's going on? It was really quite tricky. And then the idea of social media, I used to watch your socials and just think, this is amazing, you know. But for me, I just didn't feel social at all. People would be asking for streaming concerts and all that. I was like, I can't do it.

You can only do what feels right. Yeah, I couldn't. And, you know, I think as well, I look back on some of the stuff that we were all getting up to and I feel like it was all a form of coping, to be honest with you. Yes, it was. It really, really was. It really was. and i think i definitely for the first time felt i had to pull myself out of something you know normally it's kind of something happens okay let's see the

glass half full side of that you know let's see the the bright side but um anyway as time went on six months down the line um great ormond street was able to to do the operation that's good which was amazing yeah um but again perspective is is such a fine thing empathy is a gift to be able to have because being there and staying overnight my husband couldn't come in so it was just me and the baby she's comfy so i'm still pumping and all the rest of it but then i remember somebody walking through um the hallways playing a guitar. And I was sitting there, not being able to sleep, and hearing this music playing. I thought, oh, that's really nice.

I'm actually feeling a bit calmer. That's really helping. But I remember my very first project visit when I became chair of Youth Music, the music education charity. And obviously I like to go and see the projects that we fund. And the first one was at a children's hospital Evelina Children's Hospital and I was with a group of people that were walking through the ward to play music and at the time I thought this is lovely you know they're sharing

the gift of music isn't that nice you know but actually it was very therapeutic it just brought me to tears I just thought up for years I've been doing this work. Now I'm on the receiving end. Music is powerful. Supporting people is really, really important. And actually having empathy. So all of those interviews I was giving about Jemima was like, yeah, you can do it. You know, just it's a mindset. It's not always that easy. You know, I was meeting parents that had been in the hospital for months with their children or not being able to see their children. And it just opened up a whole new way of thinking for me. And I think I needed it. I definitely needed it. In everything, I think it's a lesson to be learned.

I have faith. So I know that, you know, God is just trying to open my eyes to see things in a different way. You have to go through it in order to feel it, to empathise, to share the experiences. And thank God she's fine. You know, she recovered fine. She's really, really good. She's two now, chatting. I remember them saying in the hospital in the first days, you know, because she can't make this vacuum,

she couldn't suck it through a straw or she wouldn't be able to blow. The first day I said, so you're telling me she couldn't play a flute or a saxophone? What are you saying, mum? Of all the things to ask. But, you know, in my mind, I just thought, wait, actually, if she wanted to, she wouldn't be able to. You know, how do you navigate those things? How do you tell a child that might not be possible? But I think then I understood parents when you watch Children in Need and things like that and you see those parents,

they're like, it doesn't matter that you're in a wheelchair. You can do this, you know. And that spirit that people have, I really kind of adopted that. Yeah, that's an amazing thing, isn't it, that? It's powerful. It is powerful. It's so powerful. Even in your darkest times, you think something so hard,

you can do it, you know. Yeah, and you don't know as a parent that you're going to have that fire in you on behalf of your small person. Yes, yes. That thing of like, okay, let's forget what all the books say, what all the online searches say. Like, this is you. You're the first time that you've been around,

so let's see what you can achieve here. It's so true, it's so true. And it is the books and the research that makes it harder, to be fair, because I remember even once you'd had the repair it was all fine and you know i joined lots of different communities online and just seeing what i mean it's that one in 700 children are born with some form of cleft i thought i didn't even know i didn't know that i didn't know about it um and so that's something that even going forward i really want to support but you know

then they say well it's not just about the repair. It might be speech and speech and speech development or their teeth, how their teeth grow. And I'm thinking, oh, my God, for the rest of my life, am I going to be thinking, is it because of that? You know, but it's wonderful to see how she's just been so strong because those first months of having to survive, you know, in the conditions that she was in. Just seeing that strength within her is beautiful. And now she's two, she's running around, singing, dancing, doing whatever she wants to do. It's really, really nice to see.

But I still hark back. It was her birthday last week. And on the day, just think, gosh, what we were going through two years ago. So much. And actually, you're right in saying that, you know, you say, oh, I still don't know, you know, to what extent they've processed all of it. Because those conversations just kind of stopped, didn't they?

And I was talking to a girlfriend the other day who said that her friends that had babies during lockdown, they had their six-week checks over the phone. You know, they're not seeing other mothers. They're not seeing other parents. They're not doing the playgroups. They're not doing any of that stuff. You're just at home.

And if that's your first baby, I do think... I can't imagine it. That's a lot, isn't it? I mean, you feel isolated when you're surrounded by support. Yes, yeah. No, I remember with Jemima, I went to this amazing group called Mothers Talking and it was a very safe space where you could just say

what you wanted to say without, you know, people judging you. And I just think, I didn't have that second time around, actually. And it was really, really important. And I do just really shout out to all the parents that have given birth in this time especially first-time parents like you're doing amazingly well yeah yeah it's just not there I haven't actually taken Adelphi to a weigh-in had she not had um the cleft repair and those check-ups check-ups check-ups um we wouldn't have been able to have that the weighing the measuring all of that stuff yeah yeah it's really interesting i know and even going into great ormond street for the operation means you see people you can say she's like this

and actually get to share a little bit and say isn't she lovely and look she's doing this and oh she's smiling at you and all those things that you know unity yeah community yeah yeah in fact i think a lot of what we've been talking about is about community actually and the support within and how you give people freedom and space to be what they do what they're doing but also you know to keep it present with them and and help them grow and yes it goes back to your mum's ethos i guess i think so i think so um it's it's giving to people as well making sure that they're safe and happy and supported but also making sure you have that support network around you as well it's important yeah and thank goodness all the music stuff's come back and it's getting there all the music

groups and things like that yes you know my youngest didn't do any of those things because they were not happening so yeah I think getting all that stuff back on track is really really vital for them it's important as well I remember putting Adelphi into nursery a bit earlier than I wanted to, not because of work or anything, but actually because she needs that social interaction. But even till now, we haven't been able to go into the nursery. So it's kind of like, I don't know who you are. Like, I drop you off at the door.

It's like, who do you hang out with? Who are your friends? Like, what do you do? It's so strange. You don't get that information out of them for a long time. No. I do ask Mickey every day. Like, what do you do? It's so strange. You don't get that information out of him for a long time. No. I do ask Mickey every day, like, what do you do to him? He's like, drips.

Drips. And he's not very reliable as well. So what he says he doesn't know might have happened six months ago for all I know. You've got to love him. No, it's lovely. What's happening next for you, Landa? Is there anything on the horizon that's exciting at the moment? Yeah.

So at the moment, just in the thick of Underscore for this animation, which I'm absolutely loving. Is that a very different discipline? Oh, my God, so different. So when you're doing the Underscore for animation, you're being given, it's a completed bit of animation, and you have to then score it.

Then you're scoring it, but it's really emotion and the rise and fall. It's not just a piece of music. So do you play as you're sort of watching it to try and get the timing i have musicians in the room as well wow engineer and yeah we're literally singing things putting things trying things uh but i'm loving it well no for the kids for your land as banjam yeah which incidentally has been a nice experience because i play instrumental music in my grown-up music. But having, well, playing these festivals in the summer and having, you know, 2,000 children singing the lyrics back at you, I mean, you'd be used to that.

But I was just like, this is surreal. Well, I'll tell you the bit that resonates with me more is actually your daughter's experience, I think, because I was the same age when my mum was doing Blue Peter. So I know what it feels like to see your mum being mobbed by people your own height when you're a child. And actually, I was quite jealous about a bit of it, to be honest with you.

No, that is there too. I remember throwing a T-shirt out to the audience in one of the festivals and Jemima caught it. I don't know how she caught it. I wasn't aiming at her. She caught it and then my husband said, give it to the person behind you. She's like, why?

He's like, I've got more in the car. Just give it to the person behind you. But she couldn't get, she was jealous of that she was like but i caught it it's like no but you're part of this outfit you know we've really had to bring her into the business if you like of it and and show her that you're part of this yeah you're not necessarily the consumer anymore you're part of it um which she actually understands being involved yeah involved helps bridge that. Yeah, and now I get advice about everything. So now I run back all the animations past her,

run all the songs by her. Yeah, I think you should try. You know, she's got opinions. But actually, I think it's really important to engage with the children in that way. She said something really interesting to me yesterday. She said, Mum, did you enjoy homeschooling me? I said, no, I really loved it loved it and genuinely I did love it it's just that we had a lot of work to do and I had

a six-month hard under the table but I did really enjoy seeing her learn and and take things in so I said of course I do Jemima I loved homeschooling you I'd do it in a heartbeat it's hard with work but I do she says oh no because I heard somebody give an interview, I think she must have overheard on the radio at Grandma's house, that a lady said, I think I speak for all the parents that we don't want to go back into lockdown and have to homeschool our kids. And I said, Jemima, no one can ever speak for me. I said, you know, and it's amazing the thought process they go through

when you speak about jealousy or you speak about what they think parents are thinking. We have to be so careful. Yeah. You know, and it took amazing the thought process they go through when you speak about jealousy or you speak about what they think parents are thinking. We have to be so careful. Yeah. You know, and it took a while for her to understand. You ask me what you want to know about what I'm thinking or feeling about anything. No one can speak for me, you know.

And so they're taking all this information in all over. And as a parent, you really want to be there just to dissect some of those things because they're not true it's so true yeah keeping the communication open keep that communication open um well i'm nearly finished i promise you no i'm enjoying there's only one one question i really want to ask you i mean obviously you've your career has had so many highlights but i i just really want i understand you've worked with mr tumble and i just wonder what he's like. He is, listen, I have had the best summer in that respect because working with Mr. Tumble, I was on...

I know he's called Justin. Yes, yes. But working, doing Justin's house during lockdown and they did a very special sitcom kind of vibe because you couldn't have a live audience. And they did a wonderful episode based on, you know, wanting to be part of Yolanda's band. And he is amazing. I've worked with him on so many different projects always smiling always

passionate he really wants the children to get the most out of the entertainment and um yeah he doesn't tire either i mean he's got the most energy he is a cool dude what you think of him he is that times 10 absolutely um and then the other highlight was having a zoom call with elmo as well oh wow he's also very very cool oh my goodness he's like yolanda i love the music and i was like oh well that's a full 15 minute conversation with a puppet but i have to tell you they are exactly how you think they are they're absolutely golden oh that's wonderful super jealous of that. That would cheer anyone up.

Oh, yeah. 15 minutes as well. That's long. I forgot he was a puppet. How did you really find lockdown, Elmo? You can tell me. But no, so engaging. And I think that is the lovely thing about children's really. You know, it's the world of imagination

and the world where you can just be free, be silly, but also learn so much. Yeah, I find it such a joy to be able to work in this way, be it books, be it music, be it TV. It's lovely. It is lovely. And we get to have a little bit of that fun with our day jobs too. We do.

We do indeed. Being silly is definitely part of my CV. It's important. It's important. It is. Underrated, I reckon. Well, thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

It was really lovely and really fascinating. Ah, see? Now I'm smiling as I say this. Can you hear the smile in my voice? Can you? Honestly, she was such a lovely woman and I felt really buoyed up after we spoke, really sort of positive and bouncy.

So that's exactly what I hope I've passed over to you as well. I hope you're feeling better. If you weren't, oh, that's a weird thing to say. I don't know if you're feeling better. Maybe you were great to start off with I hope I've remained consistent in the good and uplifted anything that was sad wow sometimes I really should think through what I'm going to say before I record it um and now I'm going to get back to choosing what to wear I don't know what to wear it's funny because I've got all these dresses for gigs and I've got a lot of sparkly ones, but I was kind of feeling like wearing something that's

not sparkly tonight. But then I feel like the people just expect me to wear sequins all the time. I mean, in my tour wardrobe, I've got three outfits and only one of them is sequined. Is that okay? The other ones are very bright though. I think if so long as it's jolly, you can kind of get away with it, okie dokie well listen whatever you're having happen this week have a good one um i have got who have i got coming up for you next week oh cool one next week uh a woman called dr karen gurney who is known informally as the sex doctor and we had a brilliant chat about well actually it spanned how to talk about sex with your kids but also how to maintain a good sex life uh throughout your life really particularly

in long-term relationships she said that that's her kind of main thing is how teaching people how to sustain a good sex life during long-term relationships she had lots of wise things to say so tune in next week for that in the meantime i will love you and leave you have a good week darlings take care bye Thank you. you