Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 6: Yvonne Telford

Episode Date: August 10, 2020

Sophie’s podcast guest this week is Yvonne Telford who is mother to two girls aged 10 and 12 whilst running her gorgeous clothing company Kemi Telford. Her the tale of how she discovered exactly who she was after having a baby which will resonate with so many as it’s so easy to become a parent and forget who ‘you’ are. Hoping this episode will reassure and inspire folk!  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Good day to you my fellow spinning plate person. How are you? I hope you had a good week. I'm pounding out. Oh, for goodness sake. It's very inconsiderate. I'm trying to record something for my podcast.

I'm out walking with Mickey. We're off to go and meet grandma for a dog walk. And the sun is shining, so we're covered in sunscreen. This week's guest is an amazing woman. She's called Yvonne Telford, and her company is called Kemi Telford. Primarily, it's a clothing company. Beautiful, bold, often voluminous, bright dresses, often in Nigerian prints. They are extrovert and gorgeous and colorful, pretty joyful clothing actually. And would you believe it, the woman behind it, Yvonne, is a pretty gorgeous, colorful, joyful person too. Her story is one I've been so excited to share with you since I first recorded

it because I'm going to be a bit bold here and say I'm pretty sure some people who listen to this conversation, it's going to change their life. Why do I say such a bold thing? I hear you say, but what happened to hers? And after she'd been a stay at home mom until her kids were her two daughters when they were seven and five, she watched something on the oprah winfrey show which she will share with you and uh yeah it changed everything and i kind of feel like it might do that for someone who listens today um she uh she's exactly the sort of person i wanted to interview for spinning plates because she sort of turned her life around she had after she had her first baby she sort of didn't really know who she was for a long time. And I think that can happen so easily. You kind of think, how do I go back to the woman I was before I had a baby? Is that the woman I want to be? Was I a happy woman then? Where do I go from here? So yeah, it's going to inspire you, I think. Her daughters are now 12 and 10. And I went to

meet her in her clothing warehouse, actually, surrounded by folded, beautiful clothing, which was a nice environment. Before I start the conversation, I just want to say thank you for all the messages I've had since last week's episode. Last week was me talking to my mum, and a lot of you shared your stories of your closeness with your own mum, A lot of you shared your stories of your closeness with your own mum, but also your stories of grief because my stepdad died very recently. So spending a lot of time with family at the moment, as I often do anyway, but we're all keeping an eye on each other. And I just want to let you know that the stories you've shared with me

have been really, really comforting. So thank you very much. I've tried to respond to as many messages as I could, but I am reading each and every one of them. So thank you very much i've tried to respond to as many messages as i could but i am reading each and every one of them so thank you very very much anyway oh yeah you can see the river now can't you mickey i'm gonna go and feed some ducks maybe actually they're not i haven't got any bread i might have a coffee though all right lots of love have a good day and enjoy our jet. Bye. So we're sat here in your warehouse, everyone,

surrounded by billions of beautiful bits of clothing. Thank you for letting me in here today. In the sort of state where we're at in history, we're still emerging out of lockdown, aren't we? So we've kept our one metre distance. We've brought our own disinfectant, producer Claire and I. But we're sort of emerging into a new world.

How have you been finding everything? Are you busier than ever, do you think? Well, yes, you are. You've got no staff here. I am really busy, even apart from the staff. I don't know what happened, but lockdown, for me, has been good for me personally, and has been good for my business. We are doing more than 100%, if there's anything like that, in sales. So it's been nonstop.

Wow. So for me, I think people, being being at home discovered the brand online so um it's been really busy it's for me it's been good and personally it's good for me because i'm an introvert i'm quite introverted so um yeah so it's good and i like my kids and i like my husband you can love somebody and not like them definitely so for me it's been you know it's good and i like my kids and i like my husband you can love somebody and not like them definitely so for me it's been you know it's been good yeah i keep saying that in our house as well we're very lucky that we actually all like each other yeah i think it's quite a crucial thing if you suddenly find that they are the only faces you see for a really long time so at the moment when i spoke to you earlier in the week to arrange our date for today um and this is the first time

we've met but as we spoke you said you were fulfilling I think it was 300 orders by yourself that day yeah have you been getting on with that kind of stuff I have no choice but to get on with it um it takes a lot of not getting distracted and I let people know that I'm busy so I don't take phone calls I just just get on with it and the days that my daughters come here I get them involved immediately they finish their work I think it's quite important for them to get involved they can't just sit down there and expect me to be fulfilling orders and they're sitting there not doing anything so I sort of sometimes bribe them or bully them or blackmail them you know into helping me so they're good girls and they do so yeah um yeah today I think I've

got to do like maybe 200 to 50 wow we'll be fine yeah no I have complete faith in you I can see you're a bit of a powerhouse because, so where are we at now? It's sort of mid-morning, I was thinking around 11 o'clock but you've been up for quite a while, I think. Yes, every day I have to wake up between 4, 4.30 to start my day

or everything gets behind. Were you always like that, an early riser? Not really, just after i had my kids i made that decision that i would start my day at a certain time just to have my me time you know as a mom you just never have your me time yeah maybe you wake up as a woman as a mom everything falls on you yeah it never falls on the man you know it's just the woman so for me in order for me to have that me time I made that decision and to look after myself yeah I just made that decision I've been waking up that early to exercise to read I don't do a lot of reading nowadays but to read now to speak to my suppliers in China India and Nigeria you know to speak to my suppliers in china india and nigeria you know to speak to them at that time

before i come to work so when you get up at half four what time do you actually start work do you think when do you actually normally i get the phone or come here i get here for 9 15 because you've already been up for quite a while by then yeah so 9 15 the postman, Roya Mill, brings returns here. So by 9.15, they're here waiting for me. The DHL man might get here at 9.15. By 9.15, whatever I'm doing, I have to be here. So that's when I start work here. Yeah, I mean, I'm quite fascinated by the idea of getting up really early, actually,

because I think that idea of that space and that time to yourself is really precious. And I think I read that you said that when your girls were little, if they'd wake up during that time, your time, you'd pass them back to their dad. You're like, no, no, I really need this. So when I noticed that, when I wake up very early, which is meant to be my time, i'm sacrificing sleep just to have my time and when my daughters they were quite young when they wake up at that time i made it really clear to them when you wake up please don't come looking for me go and look for your father and when they come to me i just send them back to their father you know i i wanted them to know that is my time after then then you can come to me and up to now they still do that they wouldn't come to me they'll go to the father now that they are

older they'll pick up a book and lie on the sofa they'll just say good morning lie on the sofa and do their thing but when they're little yeah but when they were little no they wouldn't dare come to me I think that's really smart because I think one thing that lockdown seemed to sort of really magnify was whatever family dynamic you have. And I think if in your home, you're like probably most women, very accessible to your children at all times. And work is where you go to get the time away from them or anything else you might do going to get your coffee whatever space you find in the day if you don't have that as an intrinsic part of your home life once everything else is shut and taken away there's no way to suddenly instill that i i i i agree for me i think as my daughters are getting older they are beginning to understand i think because they've

always seen me give myself time um they are beginning to understand that there there's some time they will not just come to me yeah they don't go to their father like now school work they go to their father um when they need something done they go to their father because I've explained it to them that eight years of my life was given to them. Nothing else interrupted that eight years. So now that I've started my business, they need to respect the facts. And I helped their father's career grow at the same time because I was just the one at home no help just me and the

girls looking after I was looking after them he was still going to work and his career was you know was growing while mine took a standstill yeah so for me right now there's no compromise there's a problem please go to your father know, it's maybe something you can discuss with your father, like a period or something. Yeah. Then come to me. Yeah. Or you need new clothes.

Come to me. Something that a woman would get involved, but every other thing. Yeah. Go to your father. Yeah. You should be part of it as well. Yeah.

Well, so I think there's a lot to unpick there because you mentioned about the eight years that you gave to them yeah and so that was eight years when you were raising your girls and you didn't work and you weren't doing anything else so the whole getting up at 4 a.m and everything that was not part of those that time was that or the the eight they they waking up at 4 a.m actually started when my daughter was about one okay I was I was becoming I don't know something happens when you become a mom your first child my first daughter something happens when you become a mom you start to question a lot of things you go through this period where yes you have a baby

but you're not really fulfilled for me you I was not really fulfilled as, I guess because my role sort of changed from a career woman. And I started pushing prams. I couldn't drive then, you know. So everywhere I was going, I had this baby that just took over everything. And thankfully for me, that was when I started working towards discovering myself. Who is Yvonne? Because my career, if you notice, when you have a career, you never step back to sort of question,

is this what I'm meant to be doing anyway? You just do it. So for me, being able, lucky enough to be able to stay at home, gave me that time to sort of think, what do I want to do who who am I yeah oh you know what is my purpose because we all have purpose you know when as long as you're alive you're burning this into this world yeah you have a purpose so for me at that particular time you know when she was one I was very unhappy and I had to step back to find out why I was unhappy and that's when I started the one uh the 4am waking up um to sort of find time for myself

and to give me headspace to question a lot of things yeah so it was that process that got me here yeah where I am right now yeah no I mean i completely understood i was quite shocked i think when i had my first baby to find how homogenizing a lot of the parental experience was i felt like i was again i didn't know who i was either and i felt i'd find myself i don't know why but it's always for me crystallized in in places like soft plays where you're sat there and you think i don't the only reason i'm here is to supervise my small person going in and out the balls and down tubes and i feel completely like a blank person i could be anybody i've brought nothing of me in here i'm just that

person's supervisor while we're in here and it's noisy and i can't really do anything else and for me that's always the place i think of where I just feel like it's not even an interpretation of being a parent is you're just sort of uh yeah you're just existing you just exist and you're not even existing for yourself you're existing for that child yeah exactly so you sort of lose part of you you don't even know I guess most of us actually go into being parents without knowing who we are. Yes, yes. We go into it. And I think motherhood is a fantastic thing.

Because if we tap into it properly, it brings out, if we've not discovered who we are before we went into it, motherhood sort of brings that out in us. And some of us have the guts. Yes. sort of brings that out in us. And some of us have the guts to, you know, step into that lane of who we are or we just go back to the old thing and it becomes worse. Because now you've got somebody else you're taking care of and you're living the life that doesn't fulfill you.

Exactly. And then you can get things like resentment and stuff that just lies there for a really long time and exactly solidifies and you don't might not even know that's what that is until you start chipping away from it like it's like when you hear people when you think what are you going to do when your kids leave home it's just so important to have something that's your own your own world it doesn't have to be anything big and dramatic yeah it can be tending your garden or the friendships you keep or anything that's precious to you, really. But I definitely think there'll be lots of people

that that really resonates with, that idea of having a child and thinking, I don't really know exactly who I am. And suddenly this small person in front of you sort of refracts everything, doesn't he? And it's sort of split into all the colours of the spectrum. And you think, I don't even really know which part of me is the bit I should be exaggerating here or leading the way and it

definitely is a time for a lot of self-reflection if you have the opportunity to think which you also don't necessarily tell the sleep deprivation everything that comes along with the beginning um i mean back in in march when i started getting together a list of people to talk to for this podcast, for Spinning Plates, you were always on my list because I'm so inspired by what you've done with your business. And this is before I even actually knew that you used to be. So it was a, is it a risk analysis? Yeah, a risk analyst. Yes, I used to be a risk analyst.

Okay, so that's's very different world to this completely different completely free that that was something I fell into I I came into in I came to England 1996 and the first job I did you don't even want to know the first job I did I was a care assistant for one day okay I never went back I did not even resign I can remember going for that interview and in Nigeria you don't look I can remember going for the interview and the the lady I think it was a lady interviewing me said you're not looking at me why are you lying you know because in Nigeria you don't look at people's you don't look into people's eyes. It's considered rude. So I didn't have that culture of looking into people's eyes.

So anytime I went for an interview, that used to happen. But going back, I forgot the question you asked me. I was just talking about how different your world was when you were doing your risk analysis. Yes, so the credit analyst thing is completely different different every job i've done is completely different from what i've done now but one thing that is something that links all the jobs together is the making of mistakes you know it's the hard work there's so many things that are sort of, it's not, I worked in Harrods. I worked in, I worked in a fashion shop.

So everything that I've done has actually brought me here because I've taken bits and pieces of everything I've learned from my previous job and I brought it here. So for me, it's not, nothing is a mistake. Everything that I've done has actually taught me a skill that has brought me here yeah it's all informed yes the end result the end result so I

know how to deal with customers I know how to um speak to people I know how to there's so many things that I've learned in my previous jobs yeah so but yes that world was completely different from this from what I'm doing now I did actually read something recently I don't know if you'd agree with this I was saying that they think that small businesses actually as a result of lockdown and how the economies have changed everything actually that's the place where they'll really thrive because it has got that connection with people because sometimes the sort of big businesses don't know how to read how people are really feeling and the sort of because sometimes the sort of big businesses don't know how to read how people are really feeling and the sort of that ability to be really reactive to what's going on and how consumers are feeling

and all that really matters right now probably more than ever yes it does I'll tell you like I'm not one to send out newsletters with my business I just don't have the time and I don't want to bombard people with emails. So I've not sent a newsletter in the last, I think, two and a half months. The newsletter that I sent out last was just to find out how the people that subscribe to it, the women in my community, I don't even see them as customers anymore. I see them as a community. I sent an email to them just to find out, how are you guys? You know, are you keeping well? And I explained to them what we're doing, how we are supporting our suppliers.

Because most big brands had cancelled their orders. But for me, I just couldn't do that. Because I have a personal relationship with my suppliers I know their wives I know their kids and I just thought how can I support them you know so I couldn't do that to them that's very unique isn't that to have that to actually know the chain in that way yeah I I think because when you speak to people every day you sort of build a relationship where you know you know um you sort of know what's going on with them what's going on with their family either well and throughout the lockdown um I I was calling them

like maybe twice a week if I don't hear from them yeah I mean they're like part of my family because they've helped my business grow as well yeah so I call them and this is something that I think the big brands don't do no it's like a business kind of relationship very much so I have like a personal relationship with my suppliers and with some of my customers yeah not all of them because now it's such a big business that I wouldn't know all of them but the ones I've been there from when I started I know my story yeah um yeah so they're like so for me I think this is the best place to be a small brand um during lockdown yeah well actually it's funny because I'm one of the people on your email list,

so I get your message. Oh, are you? I am. And you know what's funny is when I receive the emails, I always forget at first that they are from a business because you have this tone

that is always very, very personable and conversational. And it always feels... You see, I'm black. Sorry, I had to interrupt. I feel like blushing. Honestly, I'm had to interrupt it i can't i i feel like blushing honestly but i'm a black woman you can't see me blushing that's a bonus when i blush it's horrible but um no it's true i'll read them and i think i thought oh no it's which leads me

to next thing how many people think you're called kemi and why is it Kemi Telford? Oh, dear. Okay, so with a Nigerian, they will tell you that when you're born, your parents give you a lot of names depending on what is going on in their lives at that particular time. Okay. So for my sister, her name is Oluware Milekun, which means God has stopped me from having tears. Because my mother, before my mother had her, she had a lot of miscarriages. So when she finally had a child, she called her that name. Then the people around her would come and give the child a name as well, based on what is going on in their lives. So a child might have like five, six names. You know, if you hear somebody called Babatunde,

that's a Nigerian name, which means father is back. That is because a male has died in that family at that particular time. So anywhere that child goes, it shows you will know the meaning as a Nigerian. So every Nigerian name has a meaning with me I'm the third yeah I'm the the third daughter the third child my mother had six kids so I am so it just goes on I gave myself Yvonne okay so it's not one of so it's not one of your... It's not one of my names. So when I got baptized in church, they asked us, what name would you like? And I can remember the first time I heard

Yvonne, I thought it sounds really chic, really French. You know, I was in Nigeria then, really French, and I gave myself Yvonne, you know, but with the name Kemi, Kemi is one of my name, which means God look after me. Okay. So it was like a prayer that my mom, after she had the first one, she had the second one. I'm sure at the back of her mind, she was still thinking, I might lose one of my kids. So she gave me Oluwakemi. And when I was looking for the name for my brand, I thought, what is it that is going to stand out? And I just took my husband's name and I've told him several times, I'm going to drop that name pretty soon, Telford. So I took my husband's name, Telford and Kemi Telford. I can remember it just came really easily.

Yeah. Do you think it was important to you that it had that mix of your sort of Nigerian heritage and your husband's name? Or is that not even something you're thinking about? You know, everything that I've done, I've not thought about it. Everything that I've done, I've just gone with my gut instinct. I don't think too much about things. The only thing I think a lot about are my daughters, their health. Every other thing, I just think, yes, it can be taken away at any time so I don't sort of people ask so what are your goals what what are your plans for your business I have no plans

um I think if I have like plans in place and it gets taken away from me then I sort of get into like a hole so I I just don't plan things. So going back to the name, I just thought, you know, everybody will be able to say Kemi Telford compared to my first name, which is Mudukwe. You know, nobody can pronounce that Mudukwe. You know, you need that Nigerian twist. Even Nigerians can't pronounce it. So I had to look for something really easy for people so luckily it's actually worked out well yeah but people call me Kemi you see some people would send

me emails and say Kemi and they will come back and say oh I'm really sorry Yvonne I'm thinking it doesn't really matter yeah I can see that well it is part of your name i suppose but i think it's wonderful you chose everyone because it's chic and french i think you're right it is um so you were born and raised in nigeria yes um so you're one of six did you say yes um so you're third in the line yes the lost child is that what you'd say for the third yeah the third child is a lost child, you know. Oh, no. The first two are bonded. How do I break it to my third? Okay. The first two are bonded, you know, then you just appear. Yeah. And the last two are going to bond. So where are you?

Oh, no. Yeah, you're right. Okay, I'll go home and tell Ray. I've sort of tried to sell it to him that he's the heart of the family. Yeah, you're laughing at me. Okay, fine. I'm laughing at you. It's going to work for a while, isn't it? But then he's the heart of the family. Yeah, you're laughing at me. Okay, fine. I'm laughing at you.

It's going to work for a while, isn't it? But then he's going to be like, hang on a minute. Until when he gets older, then he starts to question you. Yeah, I know. Do you think that your upbringing, were you raised by working parents? Did your mum work? My mum, it's an odd one. My mum worked.

She ran, she was a teacher for a while then she now started this business where she sold alcohol but in um how would i put it wholesale so she was like so she had like a big warehouse where pubs and beer we call we don't call them pubs pubs is very english we call them beer parlor you know where you go in the evening you sit down with your friends outside um so those people will come to her she was like a main distributor and yeah she did that that was the only thing i saw so you used to go there to the warehouse sometimes yeah i used after school But my father is a businessman. My father has always been a businessman. But for me, I never really learned anything from them.

Do you think you've ever spoken to someone who might want to have a business yourself one day? Was that ever sort of put on the table as an option to you or it was more just about getting a job and finding a decent job? It's always been because my father wanted to be a lawyer and he never had the money to go to university or to even complete his education so he wanted to live his dream through me because he felt I was a talkative. He felt I was the bold one. So he was like, go and study law.

So I can remember when I came to England, I went back to study law. Even though then I discovered that that wasn't what I wanted to do. But to please my father. And it was so easy for me to make that decision. Because it was an easy decision. I didn't want to sort of rock the boat. Yeah. So I went back to do what I'd always known.

So you came to the UK because of the law, to study law. I was already studying law in Nigeria and I dropped everything to come here. But to start up again. To start up again. Which is, now my daughter sort of asked me, why did you do that? But I always say this to people. The universe has a way of leading your steps.

Now, looking back, where did I have the audacity to leave my family to come to England to stay with an aunt? I don't even know. You know, the audacity of having only 250 pounds. My father didn't want me to come, but my stepmother wanted me to come because that was a way of getting rid of me. I was like a pain to her. so the audacity of leaving the security of my home to come to England that was cold you know I don't know so yeah for me looking back now I think my steps were led I didn't know where it was leading me to yeah but it's not a mistake that I'm here it's not a mistake that I'm speaking to you right now no well I think whenever you find yourself,

especially because you clearly love what you do and you're so passionate about what you do, I think whenever you look back, you can always see these little tiny threads that all kind of led to where you are now.

But at the time, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make any sense. You don't even know why you're doing it. You're just doing it. Yeah, I know. Sometimes, as you say,

it's like a bit of instinct and maybe even though you've described yourself as an introvert it doesn't mean you're not capable of doing really bold strong things you know they're not actually mutually incompatible you know you can be a very very strong person who doesn't feel the need to tell everybody about that and maybe being the third one down as one meant that you could kind of go a bit like well there's going to be other kids they're going to be doing they can they can take on the mantle if they want of doing the thing that they're expected to do but i kind of need to do my own thing a little bit

yeah you can be a little bit hidden away as well you can be a bit more secretive maybe if you're not the first born or the baby or whatever exactly yeah i mean do you do your family all still in nigeria then my so, I have a younger brother who is in America, he's in New York at the moment. Oh, wow. Then I have, oh, okay, let's start from the first one. Remy died two years ago. That's the first child.

Then Lanre was in Angola. she's moved back to nigeria um then me then i can with so many things have happened i can die six months after remy oh i'm so sorry that's my brother that's two siblings no no but it's it's for me it doesn't really um yes um yes they are not here anymore but like remy led an amazing life so she left when she was meant to leave living our own legacy do you understand yeah of course it would be disappointing if she didn't achieve anything for herself yes she didn't have kids because kids would have brought complication into who is going to look after the kids yeah you know the kids like me my mother died when I was young and there was no it was just my dad looking after us so I know what happens when

the mother of children are not there anymore their life sort of changes because as much as their father would love them, it's not the same as a mother. So it changes everything. It could make the children very determined because of what they would go through and they would achieve so much, or it would make them, they might lead a sad life.

Depending on the temperament of the child. Yeah. Depending on what the child, so for me, it's not really, everything that's happened to me has happened for me. That means I can sort of empathize with people. I can sort of relate to people's pains and that actually ties into my brand because I can I can sort of pick up on people's pain and sort of talk to them that's why when I share stories on Instagram you, which is my main platform, people get it. So everything that happens, good or bad, can sort of work for you.

So going back to my siblings, my, so Falusha is in Nigeria, then Femi is the last one in America. So there are four of us left now out of the six. Sorry, I went on a... No, no, it's fascinating. I think you're right. I think that's maybe what is so powerful about what you've done with your brand

is that actually it's so clearly not just a brand. It's kind of... I don't know if armor is the right word but there's clearly a a spirit and a message alongside what you're hoping the person who ends up wearing your things how it's helping them live their life yeah and the fact that you felt that you got to you know have your first baby and then thought i don't really know what i've been what i'm trying to do with myself and who i am and you know you've obviously tried different hats with different careers and had a big upheaval with leaving your home country and moving somewhere new but there's

all these every time you kept sort of turning the page okay there's another blank canvas another blank canvas and in a way motherhood kind of picked up another one okay right what do I do here where do I start and how do I fill in this this big picture I've now got in front of me it's um I think it's really powerful I think it's really evident as well in in your in your post I think social media is a funny thing because it can be somewhere that's very very flippant and and and silly but it can also and I think we've seen massively in the last few months be a place that's a really important point of communication and reaching out to people and definitely for me um my Instagram became something that was much more significant in keeping in touch with people way more than I'd

ever thought of it before um and that's that's really special and all those little every time someone I don't know post something where they've shared a bit of their story back to something you might share is like someone smiling at you in the street or yeah you know making room for you to sit down somewhere or you know just an unexpected kindness kind exchange with a stranger it's it's it became it took the place of that because all of that was gone yeah so it is really significant i think um. So when you were having your first baby, do you think that you've already felt like you had ideas of having this business or was it still...

No. No. I mean, you can hear from that laughter. To be honest with you, I was lost. I was just lost because my previous... What I was doing, being a credit risk analyst, getting up, getting dressed, wearing really fabulous clothes to go to work and carrying the most expensive handbags because I had no kids then was just my thing. That was what covered up all my baggage that I had to deal with.

You know, and when my daughter was born born i couldn't carry an expensive bag to push the pram where do you put the pack you know on the shoulder and push the pram it just doesn't work you know you can't wear high heels you can't you're just trainers you know your body changes except for you i don't know what's going on with you you look amazing i'm actually i'm actually dressed a bit like andy pandy today i think i don't know if you know andy pandy is like very like quaint english like childhood books it's sort of yeah it's not necessarily a file you know but the thing is you you that's when all the questioning starts to come in okay i can't stress like this anymore that that that is taken away from you.

But a choice you made because a choice to have a child. Yeah. You know, but when the child is here, the child actually takes more away from you. You can't look the way you used to look. Your body changes. So who am I? So you start to question.

For me, I just felt that part of me, the handbags and everything, are gone. I don't even know when I'm going to carry them again. These clothes don't fit anymore. I don't know when I'm going to wear them again. So what's next? And something really weird happened. I remember daytime TV, Oprah used to be on TV there. I sat down, I was watching her. My daughter was in, she was playing. And there was a woman that came on the show. And the woman said something that hit me. She said, when you wake up in the morning,

the first thing you need to say to yourself is I love you. And I thought that's a bit crazy. Why would you want to tell yourself I love you? And it kept on playing in my mind. I woke up the next morning. That's when I made the decision that I was going to, you know, I was waking up at 4am that very day. The next morning I woke up and I did something odd. So we live in a townhouse, we sleep on the top floor. So I came to the middle floor, which is just a living space, went to the ground floor, which is like a bathroom with this big mirror

and I stripped naked. And I looked in the mirror at the person looking at me. This is really weird. And I looked in the mirror at the person looking at me. This is really weird. And for the first time, I saw somebody I had never seen before looking back at me. Me, my reflection. So I've been so busy ignoring me.

And all I had done is just, you know, put a bit of makeup on, get dressed. But I'd never really taken time to look at myself in the mirror and say, Yvonne, actually, you're not bad looking. Actually, you're fabulous. Actually, I love you. I remember looking at that image of myself in the mirror and I ran out of the bathroom. I couldn't look at her. I just couldn't do it because that was a stranger.

And it took years of doing the same thing for me to get to know that woman. And that is another thing that has led me here. You know, taking the time in the morning just to go through that process, it took almost seven months for me to be able to look at myself in the mirror, straight in my eyes. And the first time I did it, I cried because I'd never seen me before. So if I don't see me, how do I expect people to see me? If I can tell myself, I love you, how can I really tell my daughter I love you? It just doesn't work.

How can I tell my husband I love you when I don't know if I love myself? how can I tell my husband I love you when I don't know if I love myself so that was what happened to me that's amazing that's really really amazing um I think I think that's really powerful and I'm actually questioning how comfortable I'd be doing it with myself honestly because I think as well I was thinking when you're saying I think it's probably something you have to keep doing as well it's not when you're saying I think it's probably something you have to keep doing as well it's not like one day works it has to be an ongoing process I do it every day exactly I do it every day the acceptance because so many things sort of strip us every day you get something stripping you of the odd word that somebody says to you because words actually stick so

somebody says the wrong word to you it sticks you might think it doesn't stick but it sticks it goes into our clothes it goes everywhere and it gets a point where it goes into you so I'm very careful the words that I use to my daughter sometimes I get really angry with them and I want to say crazy things to them but I have to pull myself back and think okay what am I saying to this child so if you look at my brand everything I say I have customers that drive me crazy you know I have people that but I have to think if i should say this to this woman you know what am i what am i saying to her i'll give you an example i got an email from a customer who said um she bought almost 600 pounds worth of stuff in three different transactions she sent me an email to say

I'm sorry I've got to return everything now everything she's going to return will cost me money to restock yeah because somebody has to iron it somebody has to you know the electricity it comes to 17 pounds an item to rest you know so for every £600 worth of stuff that she's returning, costs me money. That is not a problem because it's built into the cost. However, I wanted to know why. So I said to her, are you okay? I could sense from the email that she wasn't okay. So I gave her a call because she left her telephone number and she broke down and said they're crying she's got a shopping addiction problem and the husband during lockdown kicked her out of the house

and she was with her parents and she was in tears I was angry with her for returning all the stuff but I had to put my anger away and speak to her about, I said, look, we all have our issues. Yours is obvious because it's shopping. Your husband can pick up on it. Mine could be alcohol. Mine could be anger. We all have this thing. So for you, this is it.

I hope you find peace. And I told her to return the things. But I had to ban her from my shop. After I got the things back, I said, please don't shop with me anymore and I'll advise you not that is me putting boundaries at the same time yes I've been kind to you but I've got to put boundaries in place so going back you know I think I could empathize with her and I didn't want to say the wrong thing because me saying the wrong thing at that particular time could have damaged her for life just the wrong word i don't want to i had to something told me

this is not right yeah well also but what you did as well is that um you actually probably really helped her in something that to understand that the shopping thing is not just a faceless, amorphous blob. It's actually real people. There's a real cause and effect. And that might actually help her to start to break down some of that because probably up until now, that had been a safe place to put away things that she couldn't deal with in another way.

So that might actually be quite a big turning point and probably quite so shocking for us all. I mean, she's the actual person. She just wanted to understand what you meant to say. You know, she said something profound to me. She said, I've never felt good enough. I remember when I didn't feel good enough, but I don't know what my addiction was.

I think my addiction was anger. You know, before my husband you know opens the door I'm already screaming my neighbors know me because they can hear my big Nigerian voice shouting at my beautiful husband you know that was my thing you know for her that is her thing that is what that is how she could deal with not being good enough. But luckily for me, I found a way out of it. So how did you find that way out of it? Just by looking at myself in that mirror thing helps me. Looking at myself in the mirror and just realizing, actually, you are not bad.

Actually, you are. And that process led me to finding my path. And I started writing. I started writing about me on a blog post. And who were you intending on that seeing that or did it not really matter? It didn't really matter. I felt that was my therapy. And that is another thing that saved me, the writing.

It got to a point where I stopped writing about me because I felt that my issues had been sorted then motherhood they're sort of writing about motherhood and that got sorted as well how to bring up my kids and I was writing a blog about parenting then that gave birth to this because I was looking for a way to monetize my parenting blog but no brand wanted to work uh wanted to work with me so I looked for a way to monetize it, and I launched with £50. I just thought, okay, I'm going to invest £50 into tote bags. Looked for a local printer. Actually, I can remember going to the guys who print my children's uniforms,

and I said, can you print on a bag? And he said, yeah. So I didn't even write to anybody I get emails most of the time people asking me can you can you tell me who your supplier is or can you advise me and I'm thinking now not because I don't want to do it because when you do it yourself you learn everything you know the steps instead of me giving it to you on the platter. Yeah, but also it doesn't really work like that sometimes, does it? It doesn't work like that. Even if someone shows you all the steps,

if you're not engaging in every step of it, you'll probably get to the end of that and then go to someone, okay, now what do I do now? Yeah, what do I do next? You've got to be sort of the one climbing the rope, really, haven't you? Yeah, so people do that to me. And I can remember on a Saturday, my husband was looking after the kids.

And I went into the bedroom with my laptop. And I was researching tote bags. And selfish mother was there. And I thought, should I email her to find out? And I thought, that would be rude. Why would you email somebody who has worked so hard for her brand that can you help me? but for her brand that can you help me and I can remember buying um um buying tote bags and trying them out and that was how it started with that 50 pounds you know and I I Graham was a guy who was printed oh we fell out a lot we're like married couples because he kept on making a lot

of mistakes you know but he was the person that, you know, helped my business grow, you know, by saying, okay, I'll do it for you. And it would take 10 totes. I only have 10 totes and I'll put it on my website. And then to sell out, then I run back to Graham again. And it got to a point that I'd grown Graham. Because Graham was not growing with my business anymore. So I looked for somebody else.

Yeah. Yeah. And then one step, one step. Yeah. So am I talking too much? No, absolutely not. No, my head is full of questions. No, not at all.

It's fascinating. So when you've done the tote bags, where did that go from to the clothing? It morphed into pouches. Pouches, okay. So with pouches, I noticed that, okay, enough women have tote bags. And the tote bag, the first thing I printed on it was, I am

enough. Those are the words that saved me when I was looking in the mirror. And I felt some women needed that. So I am enough was everywhere on Instagram. Everybody was crying I am enough. Then I went on to different slogans. Mama Queen. I went on to different slogans, Mama Queen.

I went on to so many things and I felt people wanted more. You sort of feel it. Yeah. People wanted more. So I did these pouches like evening bags and Graham was still printing for me then.

He would get, you know, gold, silver printed on bags, you know, just little canvas bags that women can take out or you can put your children's stuff in it to go out. But they were really beautiful. Then, and I'd grown that again, you sort of know when people want more. Then I went into jewellery. Oh, okay. want more yeah then i went into jewelry okay so i um researched jewelry how can i get nickel free jewelry i went into that then i grew that again even with the slogans it was doing really well then as i said the universe has a way of telling you different things if you're ready to listen anytime that I went into t-shirts I said printing t-shirts

so anytime I'm taking you know I'm taking a photograph with my tote bag or with my pouches or my jewelry people kept on doing something that was that was quite annoying to me but I did not know the way it helping me. So I'll be wearing a Nigerian print, a wax print or a vintage skirt. I never used to shop in the normal shops. I just used to wear very unique pieces. And they'll be like, it's of them to ask me,

Yvonne, I love your t-shirt. Where can I buy it? They're asking me about my skirt. And that used to annoy me because I wanted to sell. Yeah. But they kept on asking me about my skirt and that used to annoy me because I wanted to sell yeah but they kept on asking me about my skirt and they kept on doing it and I thought okay I remember one morning I was meditating and something said Yvonne you've got to do skirts but I didn't know where to start then I did my research again I can remember telling my husband oh before I moved to skirts

I was selling vintage pieces so there was a place in um near Kingston where I used to go to they do wholesale vintage I just wanted to try out because people kept on asking me about my skirt yeah but I noticed that by the time I put it online it sold out so for days I didn't have anything to sell so I thought what is it about my personality people saw me as a Nigerian woman what is it that I can inject into my business yeah and I was meditating one morning and I thought everything everything, Nigerians wear wax. We are colorful. We love wax, you know, the prints.

So I thought, okay, I can remember telling my husband, because when I told him about the vintage things, he was like, you can scale that. How are you going to do it? You would just be, you know, you never make any money out of that. And I thought, I will show you. any money out of that and I thought I will show you and from there you know I went into the wax prints and I can remember the first day I wore the sample and people on the train kept on stopping me to say where did you get that from I knew I had something because I was going for um selfish mother had something in um Kingston and she had invited me or Richmond she had invited me and I wore that with her t-shirt and people didn't stop

asking me so I knew yeah I knew I had something and it's so distinct I mean everything I'm looking at here in the warehouse um I would know it was one of your designs definitely and i can spot them a mile off when i see them on instagram or out and about definitely it's such a sort of clear but i mean even though that there's a i can't even count how many different patterns we've got in here i can i can tell they're yours people people say that they see it and they'll be like that's that's kemmy telford and women actually stop themselves on the street to say that's kemmy telford some actually take photos of each other they've never seen each other before oh let's take a photo for kemmy telford it does feel like joining a bit of a club definitely and i wonder as well if it's like you've kind of given people all these you know other introverts

out there a way of saying when they wear something like this, it's a way of messaging to people saying, you might not know everything about me at one glance. There might be more layers than you think. Yeah. Which is really a lovely feeling if you have that, something you can put on. Just give that message to the world. How does your husband and your family feel

about this sort of journey you've been on? Do you know something? When I started, I never allowed people to give me permission to do what I want to do. In saying that, my husband, without my husband, I have the kindest husband. I can remember when I met him. I knew that was my husband.

I just knew it. I sat across, and I saw the most beautiful person you know so I he's a very kind person and without him I don't think I would have come this far because you need somebody there to support you you know if he was somebody that was not supportive I would be you know I would really struggle yeah but at the same time I I with men I'm sorry to generalize you need to tell them what you want because they just don't know so with my husband I've said can you and that did not come easy because I see my mother doing stuff for my dad. And that was what I saw.

Her cooking all the time, cleaning, washing, doing everything for him. And he never did anything. So that was what I grew up seeing. So I felt that was what I was meant to do. But sat in this business, I sort of, you see, I've rambled on now. What was the question again? Just asking you about how it is for them because obviously when you got together with your husband and the first seven years of your children's life you were living a slightly you were sort of on a journey

to get into what feels like now a place where you feel like I can see myself this is me and I understand what I was supposed to be doing all this time. Okay, I will tell you something that is amazing. My husband is a very high earner, right? And when I was not working, he never really made me feel bad about money. I had an allowance. Now, I earn far more than him. My business earns far more than... I mean, he mean he looks I mean what he earns in a year this business brings in in like two three weeks that's his yearly salary big thumbs up

so things have sort of changed he's still working he's still very supportive of me and he doesn't have an ounce of jealousy. He tells every single person about what... I feel so emotional thinking about this, about what his wife has achieved. When he comes here and is having a meeting, before we went into lockdown and the girls, and I moved in here, and before the girls stopped school,

he will have meetings, and he'll be showing everybody around every he he just shouts about what i've achieved yeah to everybody that wants to hear well that's true that's proper love isn't it that's when someone can actually let you do that i think he he he's he's um yeah, John is special. And I think, I don't know. I don't know what I think, but in that aspect, I'm blessed as well that I don't have a man competing with me. Yeah. Thinking my wife is doing better than me. Yeah.

No, he just wants you to celebrate what you've done. I saw a post you put up recently where I think your family had given you a clock that has your Instagram follower. They're obviously quite keen to join in on the celebration of what you've achieved. Yeah, my daughters, I think I love the fact that my daughters can see what I'm doing. They're really involved in the business. So the photos that you see on my website, my husband and my daughters take that. I've never used a photographer.

I only use myself as a model because I want women to see that, you know, a woman like me can, you know, you can, you know. And actually me being the model was actually a mistake because I couldn't afford a model and they're taking the photograph was a mistake as well because I could not afford a photographer so with my kids when they come up from school after picking up in school I'll give them my mobile phone and say take a photo and that was for Instagram now they know how to handle the camera yeah they know about fabrics when you talk to

them about fabrics they know because it's now like a family affair. Yeah. And when they wake up in the morning, hello, darling, how are you? Do you want a cup of tea? And I'm like, no. And the next thing I start showing them fabrics and talking to them about fabrics because I'm so passionate about it. And there was a day they said, oh, mommy, all what you talk about is just fabrics. So they're actually involved in it.

And yeah. all what you talk about is just fabrics so they're actually involved in it and um yeah so must feel do you think they were having a very different upbringing from the one that you had yes completely different completely different i think my children will understand business i think my children will understand empathy i think my children, because my circumstances taught me empathy, but my children actually see me practice it. I have this thing where I want to do, you know when you want to do something really nasty, but your soul can't let you do it. Because it's not just you, it's not in your core so my children see that about me where as much as somebody annoys me and I want to do something really nasty I can't do it because it's not I just can't do it so if they know that I have this thing, people ask me, even when no one is watching, what are you doing?

Are you, who are you? So I want them, I think they will have that consistency in their lives or because that's the way they've been nurtured. I know they will make mistakes, but that core, that seed that's been sown in them, I want them to be decent human beings. I don't care whether they have money. Yes, money makes things easier. It's important, but manners, that will get you places and kindness. I'm not talking about niceness.

That's a different thing. That's when you become like a foot mat. That's what Nigerians call a foot mat. What do the English people call it? A doorm what you become like a foot mat that's what Nigerians call you know a foot mat what what do the English people call it a doormat we call it foot mat yeah you know I don't want them to be that that's when you have no boundaries yeah and then you now resent the niceness you've done yeah um so I think my upbringing the circumstances of my upbringing my mother dying at a young age me fending for myself coming to england by myself all those circumstances taught me empathy but my parents did not teach me that but i'm teaching my children by what i do yeah they see

it yeah and presumably as well the the sort of conversations that you have about what, as you say, like what jobs they might do, what career they might go into, it's very different to how things were spoken to you when you were younger. Yes. With my older daughter, I fell into a trap, which, you know, with your first child, you make a lot of mistakes with your first child. But I call her favorite daughter number one. Now, favorite daughter number one is like, you know, my lab. Is it lab rats? Is that what they call them?

Yeah, lab rats. She's like my lab rats. You know, the child I used to make all my mistakes. I don't make it with the second child because I've learned with the first one. I remember when she was doing that 11 plus, it wasn't for her. I remember when she was doing that 11 plus, it wasn't for her. And as a Nigerian mom, I can remember, remember banging on about it.

You must pass this exam or you're not coming back to this house. You know, I can remember doing all that to her. And one day I just saw a girl that wasn't my daughter anymore. And I can remember having a very difficult conversation with her. And I can remember saying, I'm sorry, I got this wrong. I had to apologize to her. I had to start building her up again. Because I was the one that bashed her down.

And we're still going through that process. With the second daughter, I did not do that i can't be right i stopped tutoring them the second one just did the exam and she passed it by herself yeah the academic route is really tricky for kids that aren't that shape it's like yeah um and i think it's really hard to let go of that feeling of how hard are you supposed to push how much is it down to us as the parent to help them you know get the right discipline or work the right mental heart and some kids it's just as you say it's just not it's not going to work out just make them really unhappy it made her really sad it made that now she's in an amazing school and she is thriving and she is doing really well

she's in the top set she is really hard working she is disciplined she is she's just an amazing human being and if I had sent her to the school where she's not meant to be I don't think she'll be

she'll be who she is right now yeah um that it was me listening to the universe again saying this is not for her why are you doing this i was doing it for me i was doing what every other mother was doing around here grammar school yeah you know i want my daughter and immediately you're one of your daughters go to grammar school you feel you've done something not for the child yeah but for you so I was doing it for me not for my daughter until again I was meditating and I saw I just couldn't she wasn't herself anymore and it's been nagging at me and I thought, okay, this has got to stop. She did the exam. She did really well. She did the first set. She passed it.

But the second she didn't and I just knew, okay, this is taken out of my hands. I asked her before she did the exams, do you really want to do this? She said, I've worked this hard. I better, you know, do it. But even though she had passed it,

I don't think I would have sent her to that school because it wasn't for her she would have been very unhappy yeah I know I know that yeah do you think for them there was ever any point when you were went from being a very available mum for the bit when they were younger to having this bit where you thought no I need to have some more boundaries and some time for myself was there ever any any guilt from you or any resentment from them oh no no I think I already knew the answer to that question oh no oh no when when I was with them full-time I was an I was unhappy they knew it yeah they knew that mommy is always yelling and shouting she's not happy you know they knew it and midly I started doing my thing they're happier my husband is happier. Yeah.

And I did not feel an ounce of guilt. You know when women say, I feel guilty. I don't feel that. That must be wonderful. It's wonderful. I don't feel it. Because I'd given them time. Undiluted time.

Yeah. I'd invested everything into them. And when they me they know they are with me I I have conversations with my daughters I I can remember I just I reassure them all the time no matter how busy I am I want you to be able to come to me don't go to your friends because they don't know anything so there was a time they were talking about rights, abortion rights in Ireland I think that was last summer sometime

and we were driving somewhere and my daughter, my younger daughter said what is abortion and I parked the car and I was explaining to them. And I said to them, if you ever get into any kind of trouble, come to me. I'm your mother. Yes. I said, number one, I've got the resources to sort any problem out for you. Number two, we'll talk about it about it number three don't go to your friends

please come to your mother that is a way of me reassuring my daughters that you would get into trouble as a teenager as just just come to me don't think you can't come to me because you think i'm unavailable or i i i'm not there to listen or I'm running a business. Please. And every time I keep telling them, I reassure them all the time, come to me. And I hope they do. Sometimes they do. When they're in trouble in school, they come to me. Sometimes they just say some things and I feel really glad that my daughters can actually say things to me that I couldn't say to my parents. And I think reassuring them, especially as girls, is something that my parents, you know, my parents did not really reassure me.

And I made a lot of mistakes because I couldn't go to my parents to talk to them. So I make it a point to tell my daughters please come to me don't go to your friends because they are not experienced in life what do they know you know they are the same age as you just just come to me and I've told them again they have some aunties if they think I'm going to go crazy with the mistake they've made yeah they've got some aunties that they can go and talk to yeah no having that counsel around you especially when you go through teenage years and all that is so vital yeah communication keeping the communication open is like the number one thing I think actually with making that that age go smoother than it

could do otherwise yeah because otherwise sometimes walls come up between parents and kids going through that stage in their life that don't actually really come down again if you're not able to have those open conversations, I think, which is quite a scary idea. I think it would be really strange if I didn't ask you about some of the things that have been going on in the news

given that there's so much emphasis at the moment about black-owned businesses. Now, I would never assume you're a spokesperson for that, but is it something that you feel has affected you? I mean, there's obviously such a significant change in how people are talking about racism and now being anti-racist, and there's a lot more awareness, I suppose, in terms of how the forum is split with black business women and men how are

they given opportunity to talk about what they're up to is it something that you you've thought about before everything's going on you see what again because i grew up this so so the different things happening here um i grew up in nigeria and as a Nigerian, they ground you in your blackness. What does that mean, they ground you in your blackness? They ground you in the sense that you are... There's something about Nigerians. People think they're arrogant about knowing themselves. So from a very young age, your parents would be telling you who you are whose child

you are so they just teach you to be not arrogant to be confident in yourself so when I left Nigeria to come here I was the daughter of Bumi Ogumbe you know a Nigerian I never saw myself as a black woman I saw myself as a Nigerian but when I came to England I became after some years I still saw myself as a Nigerian but some things happened that made me see myself as a black woman in England and that is just lately that I started seeing myself as a black woman because that Nigerian thing was telling me that even if somebody was racist towards me because of my not arrogance because of my because I know who I am I just used to miss it do you understand yeah I do actually I just did not see it yeah but I I went to a place and I wrote about this with my boss we went to this house um in London this massive house that they have to scan you before you go in somebody's house and my boss did not tell me this we went there and before the meeting

started he told me to go and sit with the maids in the maid's kitchen later on i found out that the owner of the house wouldn't have tolerated seeing a black woman there what yes so that happened to me however however i remember i did not tolerate that I remember picking up the phone and speaking to my husband immediately happened went back to the office and my husband said you've got to leave you have to leave and I left I can remember getting on the on the train and um leaving I left um but saying that I think it's about time another thing happened where a woman I I guess with me because I I get some kind of privilege being a Nigerian because my accent is different. So people treat me differently. But when I speak to my friends who are British born, they have a different experience for me. When you speak to black women that have French accent, they're treated differently compared to people that are born in England.

Black women that are born in England, black women that are born in England. So for me, it has affected me. Even with my business on Instagram, you can see some things, but because I know who I am, I know whose I am. Yeah. I just shove it off. But I think it's about time for my children, for other people who look like me. I think it's about time things changed.

Is it something your girls talk about at home much? My children don't talk about it because my children are a mix of two. So my husband is white and my children don't even see their father as white. They don't see him. They see me as a Nigerian woman because I'm always banging on about Nigeria.

I talk about Nigeria all the time so you know they see their mother as a Nigerian woman but my children have never I think with the younger generation because the younger generation fighting this battle yeah the younger generation don't really see what the adults see I think that's very true the younger generation don't see race. They know that, yes, you're black, you're white, but we're all the same. We're all from the same source. So I think with the younger generation, it's different. I think it's very different.

With our generation and the people older than us, I think until when things are going to change a bit, but until when our generation dies off yeah yeah no i think you're right i think this there's a i think it is something i had the conversation my 11 year old the other night and it was i realized so much it was so sort of nuanced and subtle and actually really hard to explain to a child who still sees things when kids kids are born with quite an innate sense of fairness and being just and they they it doesn't really occur to them it is a learned behavior it definitely is i think it's

it's probably my generation and up that really yeah i've got got more more work to do really yeah i think most of us with most of us without even know it well some people know it and they pass it on to their kids yeah some people know it yeah but most of us don't even know it that we pass it on to our kids so it's a learned behavior but when parents are loving and you know are kind to people children pick up on that and children actually know when they're not being nice to another child. They know that, except they've got really messed up parents at home. Because when you have messed up parents, you're messed up yourself. Yeah.

You know. So I think with the younger generation, and they are the ones that have been fighting this battle, not the older ones. The older ones, you know, were know were yes we want things to change but i think with the older generation like any everything we're comfortable you know but with the younger generation they are the one that took to the streets so they are the ones that really would make the change yeah that's what i believe but i don't know i don't know how to answer this question i think you answered it brilliantly because for my brand i've always been people know who owns the brand and they've still supported me and they still i think people see the

soul of things yeah so i think people that buy from me see my soul they see Yvonne yeah they don't see my color some people just see my color but the people that come to me to buy from me yeah see a soul I think that's completely I think that's that's the intrinsic part of i mean obviously your clothes are beautiful and gorgeous to look at and they're celebratory but actually i genuinely feel like it's a it's a little club you become a part of as well when you when you own a piece of your clothing or you recognize it when you're out and about and i think i think you're you say your your soul you're the things that you've learned is so intrinsic as it and it's it's from the moment

you first follow on instagram or any any interaction you have it's it's imbued in all of it and i think it all seems to come back to the significance of the first thing you printed that i am enough that i'm enough it's so i can see how much you hope that that I am enough. I'm enough. It's so... I can see how much you hope that that's the woman that's out there is understanding that and taking that from that. Yeah, I hope so. I think they are. And I think that that thing about the epiphany

of being able to look at yourself in the mirror and actually just say, I love you. I love you for who you are right now. And I honestly, I feel like I wish more people, I think you should do a TED Talk or something. I feel like more people should do that because there's so many ways that we can make ourselves invisible.

And it can be the oblivion of an addiction that drowns out the noise, but it can also be actually by draping yourself in that the businesswoman suit with the handbag and becoming that person or having the kids on you so you can't talk about yourself because you put it all into your kids or um the way that your relationship with food then you make yourself invisible in a physical way there's so many so many ways so many ways to disappear um but if But you only get one life. everybody

should have the platform to be seen. And if for no one else, for yourself. Yeah, and I think people won't see you if you don't see yourself. It's just impossible. There's a Nigerian proverb that says, there's something called a calabash,

do you know what a calabash is? I don't know what a calabash is. A calabash is like, it's a plant, right? Yeah. You dry it. It's like,

um, it's as big as, um, watermelon. Okay. Right. So you dry it, you scoop out what is inside

and you make a bowl out of it. It's like a ceramic bowl. Yeah. You know, but made out of plant. Yeah. I have an image in my head. You can sort of,

you can sort of, you know, do anything with it. Like eat from it. It's, it's, it's a bowl. Right and they say if you use your uh calabash to pack rubbish people will help you pack rubbish with it so basically if you say

have you had women say something like uh they're making me sick oh i'm so stupid yeah i'm one of those people oh please don't tell me I can't believe it no I'm trying to iron it out I've heard my kids do it and I said you've got to stop doing I know it comes from me yeah I can't I can't imagine saying that to myself or oh I'm so silly or people will start calling you stupid and silly and where do you tell them to please stop because you have called yourself silly and stupid so there's some things I wouldn't even say to myself I just won't do it and there's a boundary and that means it put I put a boundary there for people not to cross it even on my Instagram page if you notice the women are so respectful to each other because there's already a boundary there

yeah there's a boundary you just don't cross you know so for me i don't know i hope women can see the power that they have women have amazing power that's why i talked about when a mother is no longer here the effect it has on the child because we are so powerful so there are some things you can't even say to yourself you shouldn't allow people to say to you and immediately you start seeing yourself as an amazing human being because we are then people will start seeing you as amazing well i think what's really incredible not just that that's such a powerful and beautiful thing for people to to be inspired by but also the fact that you feel like you didn't live your life like that you actually were able to change it yeah

because for a lot of people you'd think oh but i've been i've been like that for 30 40 years but that's an excuse don't you think yeah I think it can be an excuse or just feel a bit insurmountable but it's really encouraging to think it's not today still can be the day that you yeah you shift that it's hard I won't I won't lie to you it's hard work yeah for you to change who you've always been but it can be done if someone like me can change it and I should even you know I it I can't even tell you what I've been through in life you know but if I can change it then anybody can do it. It's just baby steps. Baby step, you know, look in the mirror, you can't look, run away, like I did the first day.

And it took seven months for me to be able to look at myself. You know, seven months. Can you imagine if I'd given up? But every morning I went in there. Every morning I went in there. Every single morning I went in there. I wasn't going to give up because I knew I was doing it for me and I was doing it for my girls but mostly for me I don't want my girls to be messed up even though they're going to be messed up I don't want to be yes I've messed

them up a bit but I don't want to be the person who totally makes mess them up I just had to do it for me well you have you have I mean I it's funny when we had our brief chats the other day before um making our plan to meet today I uh I knew I'd leave here with it with I knew I'd come out of it feeling like I'd learned something from you because I could hear in your voice down the phone and I think um I think honestly I've you've given me so much to think about oh I'm sorry no it's wonderful no don't apologize it's significant because I think it's very easy to sweep a lot of yourself out the way actually and you think you're doing it to be a people pleaser and to satisfy make everybody else happy but actually no one's going to give you a big pat on the back for for

making yourself disappear actually they'll just they'll just keep doing it to you yeah and it it's a really big turning point to start recognizing that and you know look if you want to live your life as a martyr and be like be sort of put upon that's another thing but if you're what is that what's a putter if you're put i, I know some people where they'll take. Sorry, I'm Nigerian. No, no, no, sorry. It's not as exciting as the plant and the bowl, but it's, no, if you're like.

No, I'm saying if you're, if you're someone that's a martyr to it, you know, you meet some people where they'll say, oh, well, don't worry about me. I mean, I'm happy to do this and I'm happy to do that, but they'll sort of tell you all the good deeds they've done and they're quite happy that they've sort of. Yeah, done all these good deeds. To be in that role of sort of, oh, no, don't worry. I'll tidy the mess and I'll do this and I'll do that but they'll sort of tell you all the good deeds they've done and they're quite happy that they've sort of yeah to be in that role of sort of oh no don't worry i'll tidy the mess and

i'll do this and i'll do that but then they also kind of want you to say oh you're being amazing for it like if that's if that's your thing that's a sort of separate thing but i think if you're just someone that is letting yourself be weighed down by being the go-to for everything else i think it's really important to to redraw your boundaries and to start it with yourself and uh I honestly feel like I've got a little bit of work to do maybe in a good way though I'm quite I feel optimistic rather than I think it's positive I don't think it's I don't think it's uh it's not heavy boots I think think we all have, you know, I think there is, for me, I always feel every day as I'm sitting here with you, I'm learning. We all learn from each other.

I'm learning. I'm learning so much. I think the day we stop learning is the day that we fail. We've got to be able to learn something from each other you know what is the point of living if you're not going to improve yeah so we're learning that's that's life you have to learn except you're dead except you're dead well between now and then

in the meantime can I help you with any of your orders today no honestly I'm fine I'll be fine the postman will take what he can take

my customers will be patient thank you thank you so much for your time today thank you thank you so much we talked so much

we talked so much didn't we we did it's good. See, I told you everyone was full of wisdom. Isn't that amazing? Honestly, her chat is the one I've told all my girlfriends they have to listen to. Look, I've been speaking to so many amazing women.

And if I've learned anything, and I haven't learned just one thing, I've learned loads. But the overriding thing I've learned through talking to all these people is just never, ever judge. Everybody's got their own things going on. But with Yvonne, I just think that whole thing of looking at yourself in the mirror and liking yourself, loving yourself, thinking you're worthy of people talking to you nicely and being decent and respectful and taking your ideas further and being confident, that is just so powerful. It sounds so simple, but I don't know if that's really even something I thought about with myself. You know, I feel like there are versions of me I got quite happy with. Like, I'd look back and go,

actually, I didn't really mind me at 27. Or, I mean, I remember thinking when I was 36, oh yeah, 36 was a good year for me. That was five years ago. I've got to remind myself to actually take stock of where I'm at now and what's important to me now. Um, so I hope, I hope you can take a little bit of that with you because I honestly think for some people that is going to be a bit of a pivotal moment, just like it was for Yvonne when she first heard it. Yeah, that's a nice thought, isn't it? To empower yourself. Next week, I'm talking to Jacqueline Gold. She is CEO of Ann Summers. So an incredible, successful businesswoman. But our path there has not been smooth has not been easy and she's one of those people that's just got um she she's just able to be very commanding and very clear with her thinking

and her ability to convey what she's thinking but never been pushy and i think she is a brilliant example of a woman in the business world where you feel like you've got to you know make a big noise to be heard naturally being a little bit more steady a little bit more considered to get the job done too she was really lovely so i'm looking forward to hearing that and uh yeah that's us for this week take care of yourself go and try the thing of looking in the mirror and say i love you i dare you uh you can overcome your bashfulness and you might just realize actually you're pretty special too all right i'll leave you with that thought lots of love see you soon Thank you.