Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 60: Becky Unthanks

Episode Date: March 14, 2022

Becky Unthank is a folk musician best known for performing with her elder sister Rachel in The Unthanks. As well as singing and touring, she is also mum to 3 year old Wren who she says she loves hanging out with, like a little buddy. We talked about her childhood which was steeped in folk music from her musical parents to summers spent at folk festivals. She described the frankly sublime-sounding experience of harmonising, especially with her sister. We also talked about the joy of her recent move to the country, as well as her excitement about getting back on the road with her band. I spoke to Becky a couple of months ago when she was just about to run an online version of one of her Northumberland singing weekends. But now, at time of podcast, she is just about to go back on tour (and I’m on the road at the moment, too!) x https://www.thisiscolossal.com/2018/05/stems-stop-motion-ainslie-henderson/kumon.co.uk/trial kumon.ie/trial Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hey guys. Greetings from a surprisingly blue-skied day. It's Thursday. I've just done my first three dates of the tour.

But actually, it's also the end of a six-day run of pretty solid work. We did two days rehearsal, Friday, Saturday. Then on Sunday Sunday we did a gig in Humphreys up in Yorkshire as a sort of rehearsal gig then first night of the tour was Monday in Birmingham then Bexhill and last night Bath and today day off so I'm just walking back from school and I got off the tour bus at 8 and then I got out of the house with the kids at half past 8 dropped the primary and the nursery and now oh my little feet

they're sore, my feet are sore I need a little rest I'm looking forward to doing not very much today I need a little rest so that I'm looking forward to doing not very much today I need a little rest so that I'm fit and well for Warrington tomorrow, Sheffield on Saturday

and just onwards really we've got 14 dates ahead but the first three shows have been actually amazing, really really good so I'm feeling really excited it's been lovely in the crowds I was just thinking about it on the way home thinking I remember doing gigs with my first band where we'd be performing while they were still opening up the venue and stapling t-shirts to the merchandise board and basically no one was there so it's not lost on me

you know over 20 how many years is it now 25 years later and got these lovely crowds that's a nice feeling anyway um i hope everything's all right in your world it's uh i hope you guys are finding a way to cope with all the stuff in the news sorry to talk about it but it would feel weird not to wouldn't it it's so it's so intense it's so awful uh yeah nothing much more to be said there really really. It's just so awful. Anyway, I keep... Sorry, it's a bit noisier, isn't it? I keep seeing messages from people online saying, you know, it just makes you feel very lucky to be under a blue sky,

breathing fresh air, doing what you want to do, looking at the flowers, listening to the birds, all that sort of stuff. And it is true. As I walk back, I can see magnolias, I can see blossom. I think spring is on its way, people. That always makes me feel a bit optimistic. And this is the last podcast episode of the series. Another varied series. You can't say I'm not eclectic on this. And I'm finishing with a really lovely chat

talking to Becky, Becky Unthank, who is part of the band The Unthanks that she formed initially with her sister. And they are a folk band and they've got beautiful voices and I'm not sure if we spoke about it in our chats but I met Becky because

she came and sang at my stepdad John's memorial and it was so beautiful when she performed. And she had to look out to a sea of people who started crying pretty much immediately. And she really held together. And she's just a very lovely, calm,

she's got a very lovely outlook on life. I always wanted to finish the series with this chat because when I recorded it, I felt like it was like an audio cup of tea. It's just cosy and reassuring and nice. I love talking to her. It was really lovely. She was not near me. She was up Newcastle way when we spoke, up in the rolling countryside, and it was a beautiful sunny day when we spoke then too. So a lot of sunshine in this one. And I hope it makes you feel as cosy as it did me.

And I will see you on the other side. Bye, Dan. See you there. Yeah, that's quite a good place to start. So at the moment you're putting together this online festival. When is it live then? It's happening this weekend. Ah, cool. That's nice timing weekend ah cool 22nd 23rd 24th yeah so this was something was it the first time last year it was the first time we did it yeah so

usually in the winter uh we run singing weekends in on the northumberland coast so we've done it for well this would have been the 12th year but we did it for 10 years before before the pandemic and we started off with one and 10 12 years ago and just as a way of kind of doing something in the winter to earn some money and to like we saw we missed we were cheering a lot and we were missing um singing with people with like in a pub or in a group of people and um so we started running these singing weekends and we uh cook for everyone we'll we'll stay in a bunkhouse well we stay in a cottage they stay in a bunkhouse and we do some some stuff some luxuries so we all kind of cram in a room together and teach we teach

them harmony singing and chorus singing and we go on the beach and we do a concert and so it's like it's just grown to be over the years we've done more and more and it's just grown to be such a part of our winter yeah and we see the same people each year some new people and um we've not been able to do that because of the pandemic so we thought well we need to do something to just like engage with people and to put something out there and get something back so we came up with this idea of having this online festival which which we've called the winter onliner just because we didn't know what to call it really um so that's been it's been nice actually I'm looking forward to it now now I've done a lot of the like technical bits and when you say we doing the um

the singing group in the winter is that you and your sister or all of the band like is Adrian there too and yeah most of the band so me and my sister teach the singing and make the crumble and Adrian does most of the cooking and with the help of Neofa our fiddle player and Chris our guitar player so we all and then sometimes various of the band members turn up and help. And we're like, can you come and help us for the weekend? And my mum helps and my dad helps and my mum's partner helps. Because my dad sings as well and my mum's partner, Jim, they sing in a group together, my dad and Jim. Really? Yeah, I know, weird.

That's cool. I mean, impressive. We've always sang in a group together. And then my mum and dad broke up, and then a bit of time passed, and then Jim and my mum got together. Anyway, years later, one big happy family. Wow. Oh, the true meaning of harmony in every sense.

Well, they're just, they're so helpful because they're lovely, and they know loads about folk songs, but they also, they've just so helpful because they're lovely and they know loads about folk songs. But also they've got big voices. So we go along the beach and we sing on the beach and then we go to the pub and we have a big singing session. But I just have a small voice and I get excited, sing a loud song and then that's it. My voice is wrecked. So my dad and Jim are are there to like carry that bit

of it oh well you know what it's actually quite reassuring for me to hear you say that about your voice because i have exactly the same thing and um yeah and it's it's always been something i've kind of been a bit sort of secretive about really because i felt like you know if i was like really good at knowing how to look after my voice that would never happen to me but yeah i um i can if i'm able to be quite controlled so that using in ears when I sing live is beautiful because I can have real like clarity in what my mix and hear everything but if I'm just with the band and really sort of trying to kind of almost match it you know sound for sound like drink for drink I just it will it

won't last more than one night probably and then a lot of my top notes will be gone and that kind of thing. Oh, I can totally relate to that. It's really, it's a bit stressful, actually, isn't it? It is. Because it's just having, like, a fragile kind of instrument that's, like, the thing that you need to do what you do. I think I've learned over the years just to kind of calm down a bit and not shout ever and um yeah sleep and do those kind of boring things are the best

definitely for my voice because it's just oh there's nothing more soul destroying than being on stage and not being able to do what you want to do. I know, it's so true. It affects every part of you. You feel so vulnerable. And when you can sing and your voice is in good health, it's just a joy. You think, God, aren't I lucky that I'm going to spend this evening. I'll just sing.

Even if I start a gig and it's not the gig I want it to be or maybe the mood's a bit odd or it might be like an odd environment or some strange place I'm singing. But if I can just think, no, I'm just going to enjoy singing for singing sake, it's really lovely. But when your voice is a bit damaged and a bit vulnerable, just the whole thing of it is just like, I'm just going to get through it. And you feel like everybody can tell by the look in your eye that that's how you're feeling. And actually, yeah, like you, I've realized that the worst culprit actually is pushing to talk over loud music.

And, you know, so if you've done a gig and then you want to go out to a pub or you want to go out to, you know, dance somewhere and you're sort of singing along or you're trying to talk over the music and then it's like next morning. Do you do that thing when you test it in the morning as soon as you wake up? Just check it's there. No, I don't think so. I don't know. I think I'm a denier. I wake up and I'm like, oh, by the time I get on stage, I'll be fine.

If I just keep singing and humming to myself. But I know what you mean. I love going out and drinking after gigs. It's so fun. I love what you mean. Like, I love going out and drinking after gigs. It's so fun. I love talking to people. But I have to measure myself when I'm on tour. Now I'm in my late 30s. I'm becoming a bit more sensible.

Well, we'll see. I'm about to go on tour in the spring. Oh, there you go. After a long time not touring. My mum calls it doctor theatre, by the way. That thing of getting on stage and then you just actually do feel better normally. That worry kind of goes. The adrenaline as well kind of kicks in.

Oh, doctor theatre. Doctor theatre, yeah. We sort of joke about that quite a lot. Like if Richard and I are feeling a bit off with something, he'll be like, don't worry, doctor theatre. Oh. He'll see you're right. Absolutely, yeah.

It's like rising to the occasion, isn't it? It's like, right, okay. Yes. Now's the time to pull it together. Exactly, showbiz. So when you were talking about your family, I'd like to talk about that actually, because, yeah, is it right that both your parents

sang around the place all the time and your mum was in a choir and your dad was in a folk band, is right yeah so they are just that they've never performed um you know they're not professional musicians but they've always just loved music and loved singing and they got into folk music in the 60s and met in a folk club and um took us to festivals all all summer every summer when we were kids that was our holidays we'd camp at folk festivals and um yeah my mum just loves singing in groups she doesn't want to sing on her own which is i can i can relate to actually it took me a while to want to sing on my own um so she loves singing in choirs and my dad sings in

a in a folk group but they they always taught us songs in the car and at family parties like everyone had to have a party piece and so we were just always encouraged to sing it was never like you had to be good just everyone sang I think it's a bit like that in the folk world though it's like the line between performer and audience member is a fine line everyone's just there and and you know everyone it's not like I don't know it's just quite inclusive in that way I suppose yeah that's a good way of putting it and I think as well the emphasis is so much on the story in the song. It's not really about who's the best singer, but about engaging the listener. And then also everybody else has to be really good at listening in.

And I once stumbled by accident into the middle of a folk session. And it was like we were in a pub in Ireland and we went into a back room. And it was very, very quiet in there. And there was someone singing in the corner and then once she'd finished someone else just stood up in another corner and started singing and it just went round like that and the room was silent apart from these lone voices and sometimes there are a couple of people who sang in twos or threes and it was really magical and I wasn't really supposed to be there but I was completely captivated and I was thinking about that a lot when I was I knew I was going to talk to you because I think that's what's so appealing about folk is the the passing on of the stories and telling them and passing them down through

generations and I thought now that you're a mother is that sort of more significant, that idea of like the lineage of the music? I think, I think the whole, I mean, yeah, I definitely have consciously thought stories or telling stories is such a nice way to digest information. So like, you know, big subjects like, I don't know, just like all the big stuff in life that is hard to talk about um I suppose love and loss and big changes in your life and um to to to hear learn about those through song and stories it gives it I don't know it's a bit less harsh maybe you can it can seep into your mind in a in a different way of I think it's a nice way to learn and um I certainly have really I really enjoyed when I was a kid and I think it's helped me as a grown-up um being around people of uh different generations and it not being like okay that's the grown-up area that's the kids area like I feel like the folk festivals I went to, everyone was sort of equal.

I mean, that's an extreme way to say it. I'm sure not everybody felt like that. But it did feel like I could have a conversation with an adult and they would treat me with respect and we were all in it together. We were all sharing that music together and um I really like that I've never been like afraid to I've never been intimidated by grown-ups I think because when I was younger I feel like a teenager now thinking of my teenage self you know I wasn't intimidated to talk to teachers or to grown-ups and and I feel like that's given me a confidence

yeah well that's actually a really amazing thing. And I think it's funny because you're a little bit younger than me, but what you're describing almost sounds like it's part of a different era in a way, or like somewhere you'd get in somewhere that's a very sort of village community, you know, where there's not really any outside influences. So everybody is sort of yes giving that authority and that space to each new voice that comes along um yeah but that ability as you say to talk to different generations and feel like you're being heard as a kid it's actually

a really immense thing that's not a little thing at all is it it's quite a big power that to know that your words have impact and your song has impact I think that's something that I'm already like want to feel um that that I'm giving to Ren I don't know I'm sure I'm sure I'll mess them up in all sorts of ways but you know that's a good start isn't it I think good intentions is what we're aiming for really it's like yeah there's basically no way to not screw up and I think once I mean like you know that's like a broad thing to say but I think once you sort of put your head around that um just doing your best is all you can do that's actually like it takes a lot of the pressure off because there isn't really a the whole idea of there being like sort of perfect way to do it is complete myth um yeah and you could be feels like an experiment

yes and then you could be doing things in the sort of what you imagine to be a perfect way but then you realize that you screwed up because you haven't modeled failure so you know you've got to kind of be all things to all people and also just be a human being in the middle of it i think yeah so when is he's the same it's such a lovely name and he's he's the same age as my little one, I think, because Mickey's just turned three. And Ren, is he three? Ren, he was three in September. I think it's such a great age, three. It's like objectively like potentially my favorite age, I think.

Oh, is it? Yeah, because they're like able to chat to you about stuff, but they are completely unencumbered by common sense or rules. So it's like being with someone who's like completely out of their box all the time in quite a good way yeah it is lovely I am loving it as well like I feel like he changes every couple of weeks it's like you're a new person this is cool this is exciting and just like yeah hearing his ideas he's like man we've got an idea all the time I'm like oh yes oh that's one yeah having their own imagination and their own ideas their own authority about stuff is really like an endless joy I think just that freedom of their thought and you're like wow you've had just

had your own complete your own take on something and we and now you're going to share it with me it's lovely I'm already like projecting into the future and thinking about how when he's older and he just won't even like ring me or you know you know because he's not not because he doesn't like me but because he's off living his life and I'm so I'm like treasuring him already like yeah well also I think some kids give off that vibe more than others. I know, like, my second kid, he's about to be 13. He must have been about, let's say, five or six. And I said to him, will you look after me when I'm older? And he said, yes, but only for a day or two.

I've always had this feeling he's just going to be off. Like, I will sort of see him occasionally. But the other day, he was filling up a disposable camera with some pictures. And he said, I'm taking a picture of everything I think I'll miss when i'm older and he took a picture of his brother and i said why are you taking a picture of him you're gonna see him he went yeah but come on in the future only christmases and birthdays maximum wow yeah he's got a strong idea very strong it's gonna be like yeah you're probably going to be part of it. I'll see you at Christmas.

You're just on the side. You're just like, you know, I'll just see you occasionally when I really need to. They're not all like that. They're not all like that. I think it's like everybody's got their own version of it and their own degree of wanderlust and what makes them happy in terms of how much time they spend with their family. But judging from the family you come from, it wouldn't surprise me if he stays really quite well connected, I would imagine. Oh, I hope so.

But we'll see. He's his own person. So what are your earliest memories of singing then and music? You're saying about car journeys and things like that and folk festivals. Well, so I sing in a band with my sister and uh there's seven and a half years between gap between us she's older than me so is there anyone in the middle of you two a brother okay who's a year younger than my sister Rachel um and so yeah me and Rachel always sang together when I was little and I suppose it doesn't feel like such a big big age gap now but when we were little I was her you know tiny little baby sister it's quite a big gap I think seven

years and um and I never wanted to sing on my own I only wanted to sing with her and even when we got to like I remember some of our first gigs together, she would get quieter so that I would, so people could hear me and I would just get quieter. I've come a long way since then. But I was just, you know, I didn't want people to hear me. I just wanted to sing with her. It sounds so cheesy. I just wanted to sing with my sister.

But like singing in harmony is just the most pleasurable thing I could ever imagine um no when I was just talking to my dad about it last night because we were we were trying to sing a song together in harmony um but my dad struggles to stay on the tune if somebody's singing harmony he just like wavers to the tune and I'm saying yeah but you just do it and you sing it and you sing it and you sing it and then you get to that point where you just you're just in it and you can hear all of the other parts around you and it's just the most wonderful feeling I don't know if you do much harmony singing but I just love doing it and that sounds magical I don't think I've done I've only really no you know I don't do much harmony

singing I've done I've done it obviously where I sing my bvs and stuff like that when I'm in the studio but actually I think I'm a little bit more like your dad potentially I think if I do have harmony singing live like if I'm doing a duet with someone I think I get a bit worried about being able to say on what I'm doing but then then maybe, as you say, it's just not enough experience of it. It's just like anything. It's just like, I think it's just the more you do it, the more that you get good at it. But when you're just saying when you're really lost in it,

you're not just thinking about the other vocals, but everything as well, all the music and everything. So is that how you hear it when you're in the midst of it? I think, like, I'd say, so so me Rachel and Neofa in our band did an unaccompanied tour just the three of us and no musicians and I'd say for the first three nights I didn't even listen to what they were singing I blocked them out so that I could do my you know I could hear the rhythm the words but I wasn't hearing their notes I was singing my notes and then by the fourth and fifth gig and by the end of the tour I could it's just like I can my part my singing part is just

it just comes out of me I can just do it it's like a muscle memory and then I can hear their parts and just the blend of it all and it's I don't I don't know how it sounds like I'm like having some sort of existential experience it's like it is an amazing experience to just to be in such close harmony with just voices and and just kind of be swimming in it yeah it makes me think it's almost quite transcendental like you're kind of like something's resonating within you that's like a very sort of pure part of who we are. Just to get to be part of something like that. To be sort of swimming alongside these other notes and it just sitting in there.

I mean, it sounds incredible, really. And that tour must have been amazing. It was really, really nice, particularly because I had a seven month old baby ah so this is what you did just after ren and and neatha in our band also had a seven month old baby we had babies a week apart oh my goodness so we took the babies on tour that is adorable and also very very wholesome and lovely so you come off stage and find your little seven month old bub is waiting for you sometimes but I have a very capable boyfriend who also came on tour with me who's just like

really confident about being a dad and just like it's fine I'll I'll take him off so he was very independent with him and he'd like you know I'd express milk and he'd take a bottle to the um to the hotel and I got to go on stage with clean clothes on yes and just like stand still for an hour and sing it was like a huge like break from having a baby you know well I was to ask you so what was happening in your life when you when you had him what sort of stage what was happening before that were you always planning to do that tour and then it just happened that you got pregnant and then your baby was there or was it something you planned after you'd had your baby we planned the tour was actually planned for

when we were due me and Neof were both due so we had to put the tour off so we'd already planned i think we've just done it um because usually we have a 10 piece band but we've just done a project with an orchestra and so we're like what else should we do um let's do something really different and in scale and singing in harmony unaccompanied is how me and my sister started off so before we had a band we just we'd sing at festivals and folk gigs um just the two of us and so that's how we started off so like oh we always knew we'd do that at some point so we decided to do that and then we had babies but my sister had already taken babies on to us. So we already knew it was possible to do that. I think it pulled me out of things a bit, actually.

It was, I do feel, I mean, it was tricky at times and I was tired. But, you know, every mum is tired, every new mum is tired. And actually, I think it dragged me out of myself a bit I remember the first day of the tour and Adrian saying um now we're gonna have to set off at this time and because the tech team need to get there at two or whatever and me going no we can't set off then because that's not when Ren's lap is and then being like well you know we have to change ourselves and I think it pulls me out of myself and made me realize you can do all sorts of things with kids can't you yeah if you have to

I mean some it was one of those things it it could have gone really wrong I did do another tour this the next a few months later and that was much harder and it's like just sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't but it's exciting to be able to like just pack pack especially when they're teeny babies to like bundle them away and do go on adventures I think definitely and I think actually that bit when they're little is actually the bit when they're the most sort of portable and it gets much harder when they get older I've found anyway so when they sort of get you know they're moving around and they're a bit more vocal and they're sort of they understand that you know well if you're in a room yeah but there's a door there and through that door what's happening there but when they're tiny they don't know anything other than the place

where they find themselves and then they just you know see what's there for them to be you know stimulated by in that space and I did a tour with my last one when he was four months old which is why I said that thing about finishing the gig and finding your baby waiting because that's that was how I did it I'd get on the tour bus and he'd be normally like asleep in his Moses basket and it was I felt incredibly um calm and happy on that tour like it was the most sort of blissful tour I've ever had. Not rock and roll in any shape or form. It was just really wholesome.

It's just like I was touring and singing. I was with an orchestra, so I could sing really quietly at the beginning. And it was all harps and strings. And then I'd come off and there's this little buffer. I was like, this is pretty dreamy, actually. Oh, that's lovely. It also helped me feel like me again. And I quite enjoy having those two parts of my head where I can kind of bed back into how I like to perform and what I like to chat about on stage and how I like to present myself. And then I can go and actually have that side as well.

Like for me, it was quite healthy. I enjoy getting back into that. Yeah, I mean, it's quite... I don't know, you have to kind of make decisions, don't you, when you have kids? You know this much more than me because you've got so many. You've got five kids, haven't you? Yeah.

And then, but it's like, oh, OK, I'm a mum now. Can I still be that other person that I was before I had you and actually I could or do I just you know decide to dedicate myself to you which is a wonderful thing to do and you can do that in moments but also I think I don't know I think our kids need us to be us like that is a really important thing to show them, isn't it? As they grow up, that you're a person, your own person. And I don't know, that you're dynamic and have needs and wants and, like, talents. Yeah, absolutely.

And I don't know if you do win many prizes later on as well when they're pulling away and they have their independence. And if you're very, very invested in everything that they're doing and you've sort of not left much for yourself, I think that can be quite a scary time. It's probably a tough time anyway, but I think particularly if you haven't given yourself space, it doesn't have to mean working in a conventional way,

but anything that's just, as you say, makes you feel like like you I think it's healthy to have that and being a little bit selfish for yourself is a good thing and and also sometimes they kind of go swinging in and out of tandem like when your parents were taking you to the folk festivals obviously that was part of what they were doing what they loved so that's their passion but then they share it with you and then you can kind of they could have their own fun and also bring you along for the ride and that's all really lovely um and when we were talking before um it started recording you sent me an email saying about your other half and how you it was quite similar to to Richard and I and that you got together quite quickly so what yeah that was quite a fast romance was it yes yeah so I was actually married in a previous life or, you know, it feels like a previous life.

And then that didn't feel right anymore. And then I met Ainsley through a project, through a work project. And I was singing some songs with the show and he was doing the animation for the show. And I met him and I had actually seen him on tv when I was when I was a teenager he was on a on a tv show and singing and so I saw I I was like oh oh it's you I used to watch you when I was a teenager and I was thinking I used to fancy it but that would be I'm a grown-up now and you know things know, things have changed. That would be a silly thing to say, so I never said that. I mean, I've said it now. You've let him lie, finally.

And actually, I didn't feel that. I didn't feel what I feel for him now. When I met him, I just thought, oh, that's funny. I know who you are. And we got on so well, and I remember I just really wanted to be his friend and then as I got to know him uh well I didn't see him for a while and then we ended up meeting at Edinburgh Festival through friends and then suddenly it was just like explosion it was like right this is a you know this is the

thing this is the intense thing i've been looking for i think um and then uh suddenly i was pregnant as well which was uh so how intense when you first meet somebody how fast after the edinburgh festival how fast after the edinburgh festival's see if it's the same time frame. So that was the end of August, and I had Ren the following September. Okay, okay. So probably after you're dating like four months or something. Yeah. Something like that.

Okay, yeah. What about you? So my mum, she was three months after meeting my stepdad they found out they're having my brother and with me and richard we'd known each other before but then we found out we're having a baby after six weeks which was quite um quite dramatic um was it stressful um there were lots of things about lots of stuff that's going on that was stressful but weirdly something in the middle of it wasn't really that stressful about the baby I think in a weird way it was sort of like well of course that's happening as well there was so much going on at the time

because we'd been touring together and we got we really became really good friends same sort of thing as you actually I just realized that I always wanted to share things with Richard first and hear what he thought about things so we didn't start dating when for a long time and then when we did we kept it really quiet because we thought we don't really want people being like oh my god you guys are dating now after being in a band together and then when we found out we were having a baby I had to quickly like phone around all my friends that guy that's in my band we've just we've been on some dates it's going really well and we're having a baby um but I was also getting

myself out of a very stressful previous relationship that I'd finished but I was still tied in with work things it was just like a lot going on oh and I just released the first single of my second album as well. Wow. So it was just quite a lot going on, really. And then when Sonny arrived, he was born quite early. So we'd only been going out for eight months when we had our baby. But you know what?

Sometimes that kind of thing of everything just kind of going, ah, at the beginning, it sort of forms the bedrock for whatever happens afterwards. And I always liked the fact that we were a sort of family from the get-go I think that was a nice thing and then the rest of the time you've got this small person along for the ride. Me and Ainsley always say we're good at the big stuff it's like we did something really big first and actually we you know I don't know you could be with somebody for 10 years and then like plan to have a baby and then you know i don't know you could be with somebody for 10 years and then like plan to have a baby and then you know you don't know you don't know until you're in i know you can get an idea of whether you've got the same like you know morals and and like you know probably gonna have

the same parenting views and stuff but actually until you get into the thick of it you don't know how you're gonna get along with it and um sometimes these things are just the right things aren't they mine definitely you know I'm so happy with how things turned out and I just knew as soon as I got as soon as I was pregnant I just felt like this connection to my to my um to my baby and I thought right okay I know I kind of know what to do now I mean I'm not saying I know how to be a mum but I just had this feeling of like it being right well that's lovely and sometimes as well there's lots about parenthood new parenthood that's really daunting but when I had Sonny I did feel like this overwhelming feeling of like oh it's that person and he just happens to be a baby when I meet him

so I've got to obviously figure out how to look after and take care of a baby but the kernel of who he was I just could sort of see that person even from when he was really small which is quite funny really and um and it actually there's a lot about how he was really early on that he's still i mean he's about to be 18 and he's there's so much of him that has been there like i think of sometimes people a bit like trees you know when you get the the lines that coming out so you know you can see that the ages you know you're going through the ages and through seasons but actually the sort of kernel like the bit that's at the core of someone has just sort of been there for the whole time that's so interesting like that that's really interesting to hear you say that actually because I feel like Ren is just Ren I'm like you're not you're not like me you're not like I thought

that's what I was surprised about having a child I thought there was he was just going to be a reflection of me which is maybe like really self-involved but it's like oh no you're just totally you already yeah well I think especially with your first you're just looking constantly for like the reflections like what do I recognize here what's oh yes that's like me that's like me and then things merge and you're like yeah that's totally not like me and then is it you is it like you you know and then oh no it's just totally their own person um and it's really brilliant all that stuff actually and I think I remember my dad even saying that when I was a kid he'd go well you're a bit like your mom and a bit like me but actually you're mostly just yourself and at the time I

would be like well duh but now I kind of get why he was impressing that on me, but also was quite, you know, joyful about it himself. Because actually that's one of the things that's really exciting. Like, who are you? Tell me who you are. And how is music involved in Ren's life? I suppose creativity, because if you're the half does, I mean, you sent me a link to a beautiful stop frame animation, which I'll actually put the link in the blurb for this,

because I really thought it was really beautiful. Oh, thought say thanks but I didn't do it it's gorgeous and I just think as well what a lovely so it's a very creative household not just from the the three of you but from the concentric circles go heading out as well with the family yeah it's um I mean it's it's a strange juggle being two self-employed people with a child but but I'm enjoying kind of making our own uh path through that and at the moment we live so just before we did live in the city and then just before Covid like a week before Covid we moved to the countryside so whereabouts are you where am I speaking to you now I live in the city and then just before covid like a week before covid we moved to the countryside so whereabouts are you where am i speaking to you now i live in northumberland so you're close to where you grew up uh quite close yeah quite close to where i grew up i've lived in i went to uni in manchester and i lived in newcastle and i've always sort of been a city person but then as soon as i

had a baby i just thought i've got no reason to be in the city I just you know I just rent so I can kind of go and live wherever wherever I want let's see what it's like to live in the countryside and actually it's really it was a really good move because well partly Ren just gets up in the morning and runs around for all day so that's good but also Ainsley is making a film in the woods at the moment so he had this idea like I'm going to make a film and be outdoors and it's going to be all affected by the light and the seasons and nature and um a year and a half in he's sick of being in the woods because it's freezing and he's in part of the film um bless him he's but um yeah anyway it's um because we've got some woods just down the road from us um we can me and ren are like make some soup and then we'll go down the road

see what his dad's doing stop and like sit that's so cute they sit on a log and drink soup together and Ren like thinks he's like his dad and um so yeah I think that's really sweet it's it's nice it's a nice it's a nice little little world for us um I was thinking as well like the pace of things sounds really nice because if ainsley's been doing i mean stop frame animation must be something that requires a lot of patience and consideration and care yeah so what you said about the film in the woods and i was going to say that must take one you said a year and a half later i was thinking

um so you know that's that's real dedication but also the nature of what you do and folk is also something where you're encouraged to really not rush and just take your time and give it all space and room and I think actually that's something I could really learn from you guys I expect I think I'm a little bit too in a hurry all the time it's good just to take your time and not rush well I know but well thanks but I was thinking about I was listening to um to some of your audio book which I was I've been loving oh thank you and um and I was thinking in your ear I love all I love listening to audiobooks it's great yeah you don't have to make any effort you just press play and um so yeah I was listening to you I was

listening to you talking about having ideas for like music videos and having ideas for this and having like clear like visions of things and I think I really lack that I need to be more decisive and um I don't know if decisive is the word or confident or creative or I don't know what it is but I feel like I really struggle with stuff like that so it takes me a while it's like right we've got to make a music video what's it going to be about uh I don't know I I think I I could learn some things from you and and I really enjoy actually listening to other women um whether it's a podcast or or whatever um or just chatting to people I love to like get ideas from people and go oh yeah I want to be a bit more like that okay I'm going to try and try and do that that's a good idea I think I learn in that way just by talking to people or listening like it's um I feed off

that so yeah but actually that's something that resonated with me when we spoke for your um winter online I remember you saying to me that with listening to things like the podcast you think you know just listening to women have conversations has been something that you've been, you were really missing like through lockdown. And it's been nice to be able to access that through things like books and podcasts. And I thought, actually, yeah, I think that's been really significant for me as well. it's as you get older it's nice to always keep looking outside yourself to sort of hear the wisdom of how other people do it and what works for them and pick things up and think oh yeah I'd actually quite like to try a bit of that and oh that's an interesting perspective and just kind of continue to sort of look outside myself and think how can I kind of still continue to feel

like I'm you know there's momentum in how I'm doing things, really. And with the thing of the ideas for videos and stuff, I feel like quite often fans and everything, they're like any relationship. And, you know, you need the dynamic between the people to work. So if there's a gap in the market for someone who's more like one thing or another, then you'll probably grow to fill that space. But actually, if you've got someone in your group or in the dynamic of how you come up your

creative ideas who's always been quite good at the visuals you'll probably continue to look to them it's quite hard to like shift on the dynamic isn't it we've all got like the role we play and when I got put into my first solo album situation I actually hadn't planned on being a solo artist I come from a band but suddenly it was all about okay what do you want to do but also I had this record label and they were quite old school and corporate so the only space I could really like try and inject my personality was in visual stuff because you know once the music's done that's the next place where you can like set out your stall and try and articulate yourself so I kind of really went for that because it made sense for me to exploit that really and say like, this is how I mean it to be heard.

This is how I see myself. And I've always quite enjoyed it as well. I think I quite enjoy that stuff. But sometimes in music you can kind of, I don't know. Sometimes when I'm trying to think of an idea, I might just play a song and close my eyes and just sort of think right this is a film this is the opening to a film what what is happening what can I see on the screen like what's the cinema cinema story I mean you know some of the ideas I can't either like really rubbish but sometimes I can't sit and think oh yeah I like that oh I watched your video recently of the um where you're playing a witch oh yeah house

yeah that is so cool I love that thanks I love that well funnily enough um that was from my album called Wanderlust so I'd been making lots and lots of dance music and pop music and then I went and did what I consider my folk album because I thought actually in dance music and pop music it's all very heady and it's especially in dance music you can't really tell any stories that are reflective it's all about the here and now so it's all you know lust or love or longing or frustration or whatever it might be but it's like potent in that three minutes like four minutes but you couldn't start telling a story about anything other so when I started working with um Ed Harcourt who I think I think you might have crossed paths with him I'm not sure but he uh

we were writing we weren't actually even thinking of doing an album and he said like what should we write about I said I want to write something I would never normally do so we did this waltz in three time about a witch and her stealing a soul and I was like ah now you can tell stories and that became like that album but I thought how nice in your world you get to tell stories but maybe have you ever thought about doing like a dance album just do something totally different I mean I've always had like a dream that like you know we porter's head will just suddenly decide that they want me to be their singer or something oh yeah that would be great I can totally picture you in that whole musical landscape very easily but um I don't know I feel like I'm

only just starting to in my 30s I'm only just starting to become a bit braver in terms of I feel like in my 20s I had to like sort of be sure of who I was and that stopped me from growing or like you know finding out who I was maybe um because of fear whereas I think in my 30s I'm just enjoying learning to be comfortable in my own skin and with that comes the the um like admitting that I don't know everything and that I'm not complete and whole and that's like really freeing definitely and I wonder as well if that partly comes as well with the fact that the unthanks right from the beginning was so critically acclaimed which is obviously like the holy grail for musicians you want that thing of you know the

the critics saying this is this is really wonderful but with that comes this slight pressure of maintaining that um surety of step sometimes it's funny because I think that yeah when we started out I loved singing and was thrilled to be doing what I was doing but I didn't I wasn't very ambitious because I hadn't really I don't know I hadn't really thought about it that much and I think I didn't feel pressured when we were first a band because I was just doing like the only thing I knew how to do and hadn't thought about the next step and I didn't also like I hadn't trained to be a singer and never learned to sing or perform and I feel like I've learned

over the years and the more I do it the more I want and the more um and the more um I reflect on it I suppose which is a shame in a way I mean it, you reflect. It's good to reflect. It means that I'll get better at it and I'll work on my craft, but it also makes me more self-conscious. And it's just something about being, okay, I'm a folk singer. So does that mean that I have to be a folk singer forever? Or does that mean I could sing a different style of music? Like, is that allowed? allowed like I suppose it's allowed if I allow myself definitely that's that is definitely the answer I think yeah it's whatever

feels right for you completely if you do it because it resonates then it's completely the right thing but I think the nice thing about I suppose the genre that you're in is I wonder if it's maybe um it's something that in my mind it's sort of something that celebrates um experience and wisdom so it must help with the path of the idea of being an older folk singer it's sort of seen as like completely perfect and lovely like that's not a kind of thing to be scared of whereas in my genre like being an older pop singer is like how are you gonna how are you gonna straddle that yeah I was just thinking about that I was reading about I don't know why I was reading about Madonna but I'm randomly reading about Madonna this morning it's hard not to read about Madonna at some point

she's still doing what she does and she yeah she's still doing what she does and she's talking about like you know what a man's world is and how men are allowed to do this and do this and they're allowed to be all these different things they're allowed to be older and but but are women is we're not I know what you mean it's like like, you know, the older I get, I think, you know, is this, am I going to be a singer forever? I think that I could skip to being 80 as a folk singer. And like, that's, that's a good age to be a folk singer, isn't it? But I don't know about like 50s. I don't know what a 50 year old folk singer I don't know where that where I'm going to fit into that um it's it's just but everything's changing isn't it I mean

but then maybe that's quite that's quite an interesting age to pick as for whatever you're doing creatively in a way 50s I don't I don't have an image of that yet I'm sort of just working on 40s I'm gonna be 43 in April so I'm sort of just working on 40s I'm going to be 43 in April so I'm sort of getting to grips with what this decade means to me really but yeah 50s is like that's a whole other kettle of fish I haven't really worked that one out yet

I'll just have to figure out when I get there I think Do you feel like 30s is better than 20s? 100% Do you feel like 40s is better than 30s? 100%. Do you feel like 40s is better than 30s? I really loved my 30s, I have to say. I really, really loved it.

I think 40s seems to be like a really, I'm enjoying it more than I thought I would. When I first hit 40, I was like, what is that? I don't really have an image in my head. Like I always saw 30s is when you can start to really reap a little bit of the seeds you've sown in your 20s like you sort of can bed in a bit and I felt a bit more sure of myself but 40s just seems to be a nice thing where I'm trying to be less apologetic about things and

um yeah I suppose just trying to keep looking outside myself I think because I do think that 40s can be a time when in your life certain doors might be closing and it's about how you deal with those those things coming to an end and I've seen in some people where they get a little bit start to get a little bit more calcified and some of them may be um thought thoughts that I don't think are very helpful like it might be like if they're bitter about something or regretful about something and I really don't want that to be part of how I how I continue in my 40s I don't want any of that baggage thanks because I don't look like much fun and I think if you're not careful it makes you turn into quite a grumpy old person. Oh, well, it's good to look around and say,

I don't fancy being that version. Oh, how about that version? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But luckily, I have got a lot of good examples of older women in my life that are very good adverts for getting older. And I've always quite liked getting older, actually.

I think getting older is pretty cool. I think it benefits that way. How am I doing it? Yeah, it's nice it's like i don't think i would no me either when you're young like it's like when you're teenager you think it's the worst thing yeah you like feel sorry for older people i'm sorry i'm sorry you're 38 or 43 ow that must really be difficult for you you're probably very jealous of my youth i know it's a terrible thing to say but like i remember thinking that like oh it would be awful being you i know and then you get older and you're like you know what it's totally cool

it's really it's actually brilliant yeah um and i don't mind if i'm suddenly old enough to be people's mothers like that's that's cool with me don't let the kids know let them think they're connected that's fine no they're looking at us now going oh dear them too yeah i've just single-handedly like any uh under 25 demographic I had for the podcast they just unfollow delete I don't know maybe they will switch down for that one no but hopefully it's like a nice thing to think that getting older is like not all bad um no it's I think it's a nice feeling and I think like you said before that thing of like a lot of that stress of being younger and worrying about what other people think and all that I'm just like I just I'm determined to outgrow any

any remaining overhangs of that it's taking a while I'm someone that's still quite a people pleaser so you know it's like I kind of have to like be better at like not everybody has an opinion about what I do about stuff anyway so don't worry if you don't leave everybody happy they might not have been thinking about you in the first place um but um I mean I know you you know you got pregnant with Ren fairly quickly but is it something you always saw on the horizon did you like the idea of being a mum oh yeah yeah when since I was young I've always I've always just thought that was the plan and um yeah I always wanted to be a mum I just think it's um the most wonderful opportunity that I've ever had in my life really to to see a little person grow into a bigger person it's wonderful I love the relationship I'm um yeah I'm quite tactile and I like having a like a friend whether it's like at school or on tour or um you know I like

having a like a buddy a little partner in crime friend to just hang out with and I love that about Ren being three like we hang out now and it's like oh should we do this together and you know it's um yeah I really enjoy that companionship I suppose definitely yeah and um there's a nice line in um a movie Lost in Translation where he says Bill Murray's character says about having kids and he says you have these kids and then when they grow up they turn out to be the nicest people you've ever met it really stayed with me I thought oh that's such a nice way of putting it I know I think I put that in my book actually because I really liked it um but that thing of yeah the little companion and watching someone grow is pretty magical and seeing things through their

eyes is really I think for people like us that are lucky enough to have creativity at the heart of what we do seeing things in that fresh way is really great but was there ever a part of you that was I mean did it affect your voice actually I wondered if that's what I didn't want to ask you that oh I don't think so did it affect yours yeah weirdly I've got more high notes which I think is quite unusual but I my range got bigger and that's that was really really cool actually I was quite happy about that because it used to be a bit limited and then it might be I suppose it might be coincidental but I don't think think so. It felt like it was related. And there's always a bit after I've had a baby as well, when my voice is really quite thin. But I think that might be

because I've had to have operations to have them. I've had C-sections. And it just takes a while to get the strength back. But then after a while, it kind of comes back to normal. But yeah, it definitely affected my voice, I think no it didn't I mean that makes me realize that it didn't because I had hearing you talk about that because I yeah I didn't even consider it and did you ever think that you would was it ever a question mark about whether you would consent to continue singing and performing um I mean I have I have moments where I think should I be is there something else I should be doing should I be doing something that's about where I live that that's a little niggle in my head that um that like to be part of a community maybe it's my folky my folky festival childhood like um coming coming back to me but like should

i i don't know yeah that's a little niggle in my head should i be doing would i feel like would it feel good to me to contribute something to like my community but um i suppose community the word community is like you know could be thought of in loads of different ways couldn't it and then definitely and you have community that can travel in community is still community isn't it yeah yeah I think I think I'll always be a singer and even if it's you know I mean Mitch will talk about this I mean my sister we say whatever happens we'll always sing together and that's that you know whether it's a really really small gig and it's not very often I think I feel like I'll always do it and for I suppose for as long as I've got appetite for it and ideas and um what we were talking about before about singing different types of music

um I've just started to write songs well I've always written them a little bit in private but I've written a song for our new album which feels like a leap so that feels like a new world to explore so I'm definitely not giving up just now. No, that's lovely. And when is the new album on its way then? What's the next thing? I don't, I'm not sure when it's out, but it should, was touring in the spring.

So hopefully it'll be out around then and I'll get to do that again. I can't wait to tour. Yeah. I mean, I can and I can't. It's just just it feels like really far away um but you've been touring this year haven't you I've done last year last year I ended up doing some festivals yeah and um I did a support tour and then I've got my band tour

um in just over six weeks we're going going on away for all of March doing a tour UK tour which I'm is that for a new album no so this this is a sort of greatest hits kitchen disco tour. So I'm taking that on the road, which was supposed to happen last year and got postponed to now. But it's like a very feel good gig and playing some really lovely venues. So I'm really looking forward to it and just kind of bedding in. I'm looking forward to like just bedding into the tour and just giving myself over to it a little bit and I'm focusing because I think the last little while has felt like trying to do lots of different things and sometimes from home and just kind of like lots of things we were like trying to keep the momentum going so it'd be nice

just to go and just do one thing solidly for a month and just be like I am on tour and that's what I'm doing yeah yeah I'm really looking forward to it actually it's such a great do you love touring i love touring i do actually yeah i really do and i'm lucky enough to have richards in the band with me and my brother's playing drums with me again which he did before but he's back and you know i've got friends in the in the band so it's like a really nice atmosphere as well i've can really enjoy that and uh and it's fun i've always really loved it i like it and i'm singing some songs i haven't sung like a really nice atmosphere as well I can really enjoy that and it's fun I've always really loved it I like it and I'm singing some songs

I haven't sung for a really long time so that's quite fun too so when in the spring are you going? in sort of April time? yeah April, May I think April, May, June and July we're kind of in and out of touring time so I'll be free

I hope you're coming somewhere yeah exactly poor Ainsley stuck looking after Ren So I'll be free. I hope you're coming somewhere. Yeah, exactly. Poor Ainsley, stuck looking after her. Well, you know what? It's funny. I had a little wobble just before I went to do some work last week when I was going in the studio and I was away for four nights. And I said to my mum, oh, I feel really bad.

The kids are so used to having me around and I've really been liking it as well. And she was like, don't worry. It's what we do and they'll be fine. And I was like, yes, it's what I do and they'll be fine. It's what we do and they'll be fine. And I was like, yes, it's what I do and they'll be fine. It's what I do and they'll be fine. And of course they're completely fine. It's just, yeah, it's nice for me to go and actually give myself over to my work rather than trying to squeeze it into all the gaps that happen around everything else.

Yeah, yeah. It's a totally different experience, isn't it? When you can just focus on that one thing. Yes, exactly. Oh, I'll have to come and see you. I'd love to come and and see you i'd love to come and see you i'd love to come and see you okay perfect we'll do that and um and also i i wish i'd seen that gig when it was just the three voices so i hope you get to do a tour like that again one day because that sounds really incredible how did you set the did you have something to give you a note at the beginning of things or were you just um doing it just have a little pitch pipe yeah okay cool yeah so just a note um did anyone ever talk

through it or are the people really good at listening oh our audiences are really good at listening i mean we've done the odd gig we once had a gig in um it's so on sligo in ireland and the vet this is years and years ago and the venue was really small venue but it had double booked with a uh a stag do um so yeah nobody could hear any of the songs that night but wow these days generally everyone is super quiet actually i can send you a thing so the first um that first tour we did with with ren when he was seven months old and ainsley came ainsley made a film of us like just a documentary film of us singing and touring with the babies i'll send you it's quite sweet yes please i think i must say that that's a nice thing yeah it is a nice memory and then do you ever have you had any of those parties yet like the family parties where everybody has to get up

and sing or do something has ren been part of that yet has he been part of it well he got a microphone for christmas so he's definitely getting into the well you're taking it professionally it's's not going to be a quiet singer. He's got amplification. It's attached to blue tweets. You only rehearse two or three hours a day. It's fine. He just likes singing.

My sister's great, actually. She's just brilliant with little kids. I went away for the weekend last weekend. First time without Ren with Ainsley. And I got back and she taught him a song. They'd done a craft workshop and she taught him, they'd all learnt this song. It was so sweet.

So yeah, he's definitely getting a taste for it. Oh, that's lovely. And also she sounds like an awesome babysitter. And is she free this weekend? Hey, guys. I'm now in the park. I'm watching Jessie playing with a friend. I don't actually know where Ray is right now.

Little scan. Nah. It's all right. He's old enough to not run off. The worst thing they do when they're that age is climb up something they can't get down very easily or just something they can get down easily but they look like they can't, so that scares me. But I've just seen Ray.

He's popped out the bottom of a little tower. He's fine a nice little run around it's actually really nice it's nice to be in the park and i hope you enjoyed my chat with becky i just um remember feeling very very sort of calm and peaceful after i spoke to her i think i just I was really impressed by the pace of her life. It sounded like something I could, I don't know, take something from, really. I think I can be a bit too hasty and impatient. I'd like to be a bit slower sometimes. But I also remember those days when I had just had my eldest, my first, and those times spent just sitting with him and playing.

And for a little while, our world was quite dinky like that. I'm not saying Becky's life was dinky. You know what I mean? Those days we just got one child, and you're just sort of on a little time frame with them on those days where you just have lunch together after nursery, and it's all very peaceful. I remember being like that with Sonny. It's nice.

I think now I've had too many kids for that at the moment. Well, actually, I did have a nice lunch with Mickey today, so maybe those days are not totally gone. Oh, the sun's come out. That's nice. I've put a link in the bio to Becky's partner Ainsley's amazing animation. It's really lovely. It's only a couple of minutes long and it's really moving. I really loved it. Stay with me. So have a look at that.

And I won't see you for a little while now. It's the end of the series. So look after yourselves. And I don't know, trying to think of something sort of fairly philosophical to say, really. But I think it's just more of the same. Just take joy where you find it.

Take time for yourself. Enjoy having lots of conversations with people you care about. That's what I'm planning on keeping doing to keep my sanity for the moment and uh if all else fails have a little dance to something you love but in the meantime please do put your comments below i do read through every single comment if there's anyone you'd like me to speak to for the next series i've got a few lined up already

but please please please let me know because some of my favorite guests have been people that haven't been my suggestion and the other thing you can go and do is uh go and see a gig that's good for the soul so the unthanks are on tour in april and i'm on tour at the moment. And it's really fun, actually. What we've done is brought the whole kitchen disco to life. So I'm actually seeing people and having a disco with them and it has been really, really good fun. It's exactly what I hoped for. So if that sounds like something that might tickle your fancy,

see you there. In the meantime, lots and lots of love. I hope the blossom is starting to come out wherever you are too see you soon oh me again forgot to say thank you to richard for editing everything that i've done uh with all the podcasts thank you to claire jones being the most amazing and supportive producer and thank you to lma for her amazing artwork that is the podcast family and I couldn't do it without them so thank you to them and of course thank you to you for lending me your ears each and every time you come to call all right that's enough see you in a bit bye Thank you. you