Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 91: Katie Melua

Episode Date: April 24, 2023

Katie Melua had massive fame at the age of 19 with the release of her first album 'Call Off the Search', and then 2 years later with her hit 'Nine Million Bicycles'. She has brought out 8 albums since then, with her 9th album 'Love & Money' which she recorded last year while she was pregnant, just released last month.We met recently at her house when her gorgeous baby boy was just 3 months old. She talked about how her thoughts about parenthood have changed over the years from wondering whether parenthood would ever be part of her life; to realising following a nervous breakdown in 2010 that she did want to be a mum; meeting her partner Ollie in lockdown and freezing her eggs; but then having their treasured little boy naturally. Katie was very open about how she suffered a dramatic burnout, and she paid tribute to psychiatrist Dr Mike McPhillips who helped her make a full recovery. We agreed it shouldn't be taboo to talk about such experiences. Katie said as soon as he is big enough, she will be talking to her son about ways of dealing with anxiety or panic attacks, as she wants him to be equipped to deal with them, whether that's for himself or his friends.It was great to hear Katie say that her confidence as a woman went up when her son Sandro was born. This is not something I hear very often from new mums. But she deserves this happy time, and is looking forward to touring with her babe in tow, in May 2023. Yes - next month - and I'm going to see her!WARNING: Contains conversations around suicidal thoughts and mention of suicideSpinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Oh my goodness, hello. How are you? It's been a while, hasn't it? How have you been? it. How have you been? I am speaking to you from springtime, April, London, but I'm going to be honest with you. I'm going to give this spring so far three out of five. And that's quite generous because it's been very rainy and grey and cold. Like today I had to wear

my puffer jacket when I was out and about. I just quite frankly I want more from my spring my birthday month I'm very familiar with it weather-wise and it's usually really nice spring it's just a bit cold and I'm a bit fed up of that um and how British of me to start with an analysis of the weather but that is a very small part of the picture really I uh I've also been having well quite a nice time of it actually we're midway through birthday season this month so Richard my husband is the 6th of April then I'm the 10th we both turned 44 then uh not tomorrow but the next day is my eldest boy Sonny it's his 19th birthday and then next Tuesday is my third boy Ray it's his 11th and they've decided to both have their birthday parties on the same weekend

so on the Friday night it's an eight boy sleepover for Ray and then on the Saturday night Sonny's having a load of his mates over so I'm going to be sort of in the house for both but trying to kind of I don't know keep a low profile well keep a high profile for the young kid party and keep a low profile for the older kid party and I don't know if you feel the same way but the older I get the more I like birthdays and that my expectation of my birthday and my sort of investment in it is much more relaxed so anything nice that happens I really like and I got a Nintendo Switch from Richard and the kids which is really cool so I'm hoping to get into playing Animal Crossing and of course my beloved Tetris

and then I also very sweetly Richard also organized a kind of surprise birthday dinner with my girlfriend which was really lovely of him I've never had a surprise dinner before. I thought the two of us were going out for dinner by ourselves, and then we went to this place, and there was a sort of secret room with all my friends in it, and it was really nice. It's a little bit surreal at the beginning. You feel a bit like you're dreaming, but then it was really lovely.

And that's the sort of home life side of it. Oh, someone slammed the door. But the other stuff I've been up to is finally releasing the album. So this is my seventh studio album Hana which means blossom and actually there is a bit of blossom I can see from the window here so you know it's happening um so yeah Hana is Japanese for blossom because the album's got a Japanese influence in that it was inspired a lot of the writing was inspired by a sort of idea of what Japan might feel like when I got there before i went i did a trip to tokyo in 2020 and i was desperate to go so i started

writing just before that and it was kind of an idea of japan so slightly fantastical and uh yes i've had my second single lost in the sunshine has just gone to radio and i heard the other day played for the first time and it sounded lovely and I'm really happy with that and I'm filming a video for that in a couple of weeks well actually less than that and that's all fun and games and what else is going on just had my 100th kitchen disco radio show go out which is quite neat with this series of the podcast. I'm about to have my 100th guest on here. And oh my word, this series, you're going to be really happy with me. I've got such an incredible group of people to talk to. And I can say this with confidence because I've recorded all of them already. So I know what's in store. Some lovely, lovely things are awaiting your ears, and thank you so much for

being there, ready to hear what we've been up to over here, because it's, well, you know, I say this to you every time, but I bloody love doing the podcast, it takes up so much of my brain in a really good way, as in it's a real passion project like I think about it a lot I think about guests all the time um sure I've told you before but I do bookings myself and so that means I'm very very sort of you know closely connected to the entire thing from you know the first outreach that I do to someone I want to speak to to quite often having them around to my house it's all very personal and very lovely and I never failed to be amazed with the people that say yes to me. I'm a very lucky person. And this first guest of the 10th series is no exception because there's the lovely

singer Katie Melua. So Katie, very kindly, I had producer Claire and I over to her house where we also got to meet her tiny baby son, who was very sweet. And it was really interesting hearing. I think Katie is the newest mum I've spoken to on the podcast since I started. So she only became a mum in December and we spoke in February. So was it March? It was recent anyway. So let's say, I think it was maybe the beginning of March so you know very new to motherhood but it's clearly something that's been on her mind a lot before that that's my doorbell so normally a long long ring like that I'd say

is my teenage son but he's in the house so it must be someone else anyway um yeah it was lovely to hear how she was finding it all and she obviously really wanted to be a mum and then thought that maybe it might not happen she's very open and she'd already written an article as well about the fact that she froze her eggs with a sort of view to motherhood but you know it was looking like it might not be something on the cards and actually her album love and money which has just come out is very closely woven with the idea of this impending motherhood and taking stock of where she's at and the music's beautiful I really love the album I love particularly the single Golden Record I thought it was really beautiful and there's a lovely confidence to her songwriting and the

way her voice sounds which is gorgeous and she's a very open woman um you're gonna hear and I should warn you that uh Katie's very open about I suppose you'd call it a nervous breakdown uh a period she had of extreme mental unwellness and mental health wellness that doesn't sound right a time when her mental health was greatly challenged and and how that affected her and also the support she received from her doctor who well it's yeah she sort of talks about about him and I just want to sort of preempt that for you a little bit just in case that's something that you might be sensitive to so make sure you're in the right place to listen if that's something that could be upsetting but I would say overwhelmingly the positive is where she finds herself now so we start from a happy ending as I say so it's it's a story that's really positive and full of lots of good stuff

and thank you to Katie for being so open with me thank you to you for being here thank you to gorgeous Ella May who does the artwork for me every series thank you Ella May you know I think you're brilliant thank you to my producer Claire for being part of this with me from day one from the first lunch I took her out for where I said I think we should do a podcast together she's been so brilliantly supportive and thank you to my editor and husband Richard who inadvertently found himself in the role of editor and now reluctantly would admit that he actually quite enjoys it but that doesn't mean he's not working so thank you darling thanks for all that you do but actually yeah it's always mainly thanks to you and thanks to the guests because they provide the conversation and you provide the ears so good to have you back good

to be back and quite sweetly as I finish this little introduction, the sun's come out. Hey, spring is here after all. Four out of five, not three out of five. I'm going to up it one star. See you on the other side. Katie, it's so nice to see you. Thank you so much, Sophie.

Lovely to be chatting to you. Yeah, and what's really lovely is of all the chats we've done, which is numbering in the 90s now, you are the newest mother I've spoken to. Oh, yay! Which is actually really cute because I was thinking about it this morning that it's such a remarkable time when you're a new mum and you're saying your baby is only three months. Just gone three months yeah and it's actually a lovely time to document because it's really magical and how are you feeling yeah I mean you're right it's it's a bit of a trip I mean first of all I feel like getting this far in terms of becoming a mom was such a big thing for me because um you know I was just and I'm still in love with my job I love making records everything that that entails working with songs going on the road and of course like it's the

ego trip of it you know let's face it like you know being an artist in the music industry you you know you get to make work that then you you can connect with lots of people and they sort of they clap at you at shows and all of that so I just found it really hard to go okay I'm ready to do this like I'm ready to sort of step aside and essentially you know dedicate my life to another human being um so when it finally happened it it was it just felt like a fairy tale because I think you know I guess I sort of went okay yeah I can do this like I will be um a good mum you know and I was afraid of that of like not being good enough as a parent and not being good enough you know as a musician because then suddenly you have to give everything to that job don't you um

definitely so but what was bizarre was when he was born and actually even before it I just felt like I felt like my confidence went up massively as a woman you know um I think maybe because it had been so long um there were definitely periods of time where I thought you know will I ever get pregnant like you know it wasn't always the easiest to sort of get pregnant um so then when it did happen, I was like, okay, yeah, no, I can do this. You know, I can be, you know, the kind of sort of strong female mother character that I kind of imagined myself in a few years time. And then to answer your question of how it's been, it's been utterly magical. I mean, as you know, it's exhausting. The nights are pretty tough. But honestly, he like he smiles

and giggles and then everything is just totally perfect. But yeah, it's the other thing I found was just around the time when he was born, I remember feeling so kind of exhausted that there was this fog of tiredness that I was just trying to like concentrate really hard to try and remember everything. You know, I really wanted to sort of take sort of photographs in my mind of what it felt like you know those early weeks um and I feel like just now in the last few weeks I'm starting to come out of that fog yeah and it's quite magical I vaguely remember that feeling I think there's also such a lot of hormones I mean obviously the hormones sustain for quite a while but that first rush when you've just given birth there's so much going on and I wonder I don't think every every new mother does experience that lift of confidence that's really quite special I think

to have that and I wonder what fed into that I mean I suppose there's lots of things but you're maybe I wonder what helped make all those worries and anxieties you had kind of melt away I think it was partly because like I wanted to be a mum from probably about the age of 26 and there was always you know so and at that time it was around that time that I got married um I actually then ended up getting divorced seven years later and and of course you know the relationship wasn't quite right but we were trying to conceive um during that relationship and you know for that period when suddenly it was like oh actually this isn't working and for some reason I'm not getting pregnant

um I think it was suddenly the the idea that could never happen, I think was what terrified me. And then, but then also realizing the reason why it wasn't happening wasn't just the fact that the relationship wasn't right. It was because, you know, I probably, you know, I'd grown up in the early 90s when as a teenager, you were told, you know, don't get pregnant. It's the worst thing that could happen. You know, you look at a boy and you could get pregnant so you sort of like gear your body up towards thinking I mustn't get pregnant you know I want to become an independent woman I want to have a career and so I feel like that pattern kind of persists so when then you know I finally sort of realized that it was it was also not just a fertility issue but it

was also a psychological issue I just sort of started to kind of let go of all of that I guess anxiety around you know getting pregnant not getting pregnant um you know and then around you know the time of COVID I met my partner Ollie um and it just was very easy with him. You know, like everything was just kind of felt super fun, natural, carefree. You know, and actually during us dating, literally on the second date, I said to him, look, you know, I want to have kids. If you're not interested, then this might not be the right thing. But I said, but look, I don't want to put any pressure on us. So I'm going to freeze my eggs and essentially take that pressure off. And he was always super chilled about it. He'd always like use the right kind of joke to kind of lighten the conversation up. And I went through the process of freezing my eggs. I did it in three rounds.

went through the process of freezing my eggs. I did it in three rounds. And then my fertility doctor said to me, okay, now you've frozen your eggs, there's your insurance policy. You know, if you feel like you're ready to try, do that. But after three months, come back to me. And I thought, gosh, three months probably isn't a long time, because I know the average is about six months for most couples to get pregnant. But it happened for us after two months. which is about six months for most couples to get pregnant. But it happened for us after two months. And then I guess it was, you know, all those sort of things that fell into place just made me feel like, oh, finally it's happened.

It feels right, you know, with Ollie and can't wait to start a family with him. I also felt confident in terms of where I was with my work. Yeah. I think that's a huge part of it. You know, I often think about the fact, fact okay it's so intense to be a mum okay I know I've only had the job for three months but I realized if it had happened earlier in my life where I wasn't where I feel you know I am now in terms of my work yeah I don't know if I would have had the same level of

confidence and and calm about it yeah it's funny you if I would have had the same level of confidence and and calm about it yeah it's funny you say I've only had the job for three months yeah um because yeah I'm thinking about the fact that there's so many women who invest a long time in a serious relationship in their 30s and then when they come out the other side and they're they've flipped that from that bit where they feel like I've still got a lot of time at the beginning and then to the getting past their mid-30s and thinking oh I'm single and yeah all those things I thought I might do and now there's a very real possibility that that's not going to happen exactly that was exactly me because yeah I was 36 divorced

um you know not in a relationship and also COVID had just hit and I have to say like I have to say so January 2020 was the first time in my life where I bought five dresses in order to be ready for like nights out because before that my entire like all of my 20s I was like I wasn't really a big party person and every time like you know some kind of event came on I was like oh god what am I gonna wear so in January I was literally like right I'm gonna get these dresses I'm gonna be ready any invite come my way uh and of course you know March have you won won them uh I did wear them for some shows actually that's good but there was there was quite a few that never got one which is a real shame don't worry I mean I remember at the beginning of 2020 being like this is the year where I'm going to have my hair cut regularly no I'm not but um I think that thing as well of dating when you know that your biological clock is ticking

and you're thinking about that is also a thing that's quite tricky, isn't it? It's really tricky, yeah. And, you know, you kind of, you just, I mean, I just didn't want to freak him out. And it's so funny, actually. A few months in, he had made a list of what he was looking, well, sorry, before we started dating, he told me that he'd made a list of what he was looking for in a woman.

And he was like, you meet, he was's a it's a list of 10 things and he's like you meet nine of them and I was like oh what's you know I was thinking in my head what's the last one obviously that was the thing that I wasn't you know and I asked him recently I was like so what was that 10th thing and he was like I was looking for someone who wasn't in a rush to have a family and so I kind of realized I was like oh wow so he he was able to overlook it because things were going so well but yeah I can imagine for like guys in their 30s that's the big big thing out there where you know when they start dating most girls are going to be um thinking about that also shows maybe when you make a list, you don't always know what it is you really want to look for. Oh, yes.

Exactly. Rip it up, I say. Yeah. So you mentioned about feeling more confident with your work because it sounds like you worked pretty much through your whole pregnancy and now you're about to bring out an album. Yeah. Well, I worked my pregnancy

and essentially made the record that's about to come out. We finished it in around, well, it was August. So a good two, three months before Sandra was born. And then the sort of, as soon as he was born, it was, you know, time away from work. There was a little bit of video shooting to do. So I'm not really in the music videos that we shot. And yeah, it's nice that we were able to do that. I mean, I have to sort of say thanks to,

this is going to sound really maybe over the top, but my management were amazing in terms of helping to plan around the pregnancy. And I think that just shows you, like, I felt like I really needed that support at work, you know, from my team to be like, you know what, we've got this, we can work around this, you know, this, this is going to be, because it's so important to be. Oh, I don't think it's top to thank your management at all. That's, that's the framework. And you need those people on your side and to understand your priority shifting. And also sometimes if you're someone like you, who's got a very strong work ethic and is always dedicated

so much to it he needs people who are going to say actually we're going to help you shape exactly to help you make sure you don't end up thinking taking on too much yeah that's so it's very easy to do that so true no that's exactly what um what they're like and it's fantastic you know Sumit Bothra he's he's the main manager Olivia Plunkett who works with him too. And they totally get it. And, you know, even now there's, you know, all the promo surrounding the record, but it's, you know, like roughly about one or two interviews a day, which is totally doable. So that means, you know, I'll be joining my son in the park for a walk later on. And, you know, and that's great. So yeah.

That's really lovely. And how do you, I mean, I know it yeah that's really lovely and how do you i mean i know it's kind of early days but can you can you feel that it's been nice for you to have your work there or does it does it feel comfortable yeah it does actually um when does i'm just trying to think when does it not get comfortable i guess well i've got a tour coming up and so when's that so that's in april okay uh and there's i don't know why i'm doing this but i i just fancy doing it um there's a song of mine called remind me to forget which a german artist called philip posel translated into german and then we sang a duet and when we recorded it this was about a year and a half ago um you know i did the german lyrics by

sort of reading them but now i've got shows in Germany and he's going to be joining me so I want to sing it in German right I don't speak any German at all but I'm you know I need to sort of like map out all my practice so not only are we practicing the guitar parts for the other tunes but also the German for that one song all the lyrics for the new songs um and then also I was on the phone to my tour manager the other day and we're like okay what kind of crib are we going to get to put in the tour bus and you know what kind of laundry detergent do we need because crazily enough we're doing non-disposable nappies and um you know and that involves the whole thing in terms of the washing and that's all going to go on the road so yeah there's just a lot of planning yes well I when I toured with my baby um he was in a Moses basket

but I get I'm trying to think if Sandra will still be at the stage where he doesn't try and sit up or roll over he I think he might be he's just on the cusp yeah so I think that was kind of easier they're little baskets you know I just used to have yeah it was very wholesome I'd finish the gig and then come onto the tour bus and it would just, you'd be sleeping waiting for me on the bed. That's amazing. It was really nice. It was really nice.

There's something very pleasing about coming off stage and there being your baby because obviously you always love what you do for a living and you love performing and it feels great to be in that moment. But then to come out to find your world waiting. Yeah, of course. It feels really magical. what you do for a living and you love performing and it feels great to be in that moment but then to come out to find your your world waiting yeah of course it feels really magical it's it's quite something isn't it I mean I've um I've had a few days where my mum who lives so lucky to have my mum living close by so she'll take him for a walk and and sometimes I'll do like a little like I'll be honest I'll do like a little freedom jig I'm like yes you know because you've had a crazy night it's like okay I just need like a moment to myself but then he comes

back and it's just perfection and it's like I've missed him and he's been away for so so long yeah I know it's really special all of that um and that's lovely that your mum so she's local is she she is local yeah that's very special too it's incredible I know your mum lives close by too doesn't she yeah she does yeah I really like it and I think it just I remember the bits where and the babies are little and if all I do is like meet up with her for a coffee somewhere or go for a walk around the park yeah it feels like you've done something and if you need to stop or adjust something or you've taken too long yeah someone who's gonna completely understand all of that absolutely happy to hold the baby while you sort something and all that sort of stuff well I think it's part of that it takes a village to

raise you know a little one I mean you know sometimes it's obviously just me and Ollie looking after Sandro and you kind of realize wow you know even two people is you know we're sort of maxed out you know and I think I might have even read somewhere that it takes three people to raise a baby which is remarkable because then you wonder the partner and the baby well yeah good point I know but you just wonder how single mums do it oh I know I have no idea how I know I think that must be I think because there's some of the stuff that I think is really tricky on your own is just the casual end of day stuff someone asking how you are someone making you a cup of tea someone you know sharing in the experiences you've had that

day so I think when you haven't had that that must be very hard on your head space yeah I think so I think it's just kind of because it's constant isn't it it is constant and I just find it I mean you have five right I do I do. That's remarkable. It's a lot of people. And they're getting bigger, which is disconcerting. Oh, I love that. My four-year-old looked around the house the other day and he said, the house is actually quite small.

It's not quite small. We've just maxed it out. It's fantastic. But I'm thinking about when you say about learning German for a gig that's coming up in April. And I was thinking, that doesn't surprise me that much much because when I was sort of looking through your career it feels like you actually are you're obviously you've achieved a lot but you also still regard yourself as a bit of a student it looks like you're always learning and trying to see how you can better what you're doing and it looks like it's kind of gone exponential with that that sort of journey of of learning since you first started with your first album

yeah I mean I have to say I'm obsessed with learning and like education and yeah getting better but I also like recognize there's something a little bit uh tough about that kind of personality trait because you know at some point you do have to well I've had to say to myself look this is good enough like you don't need to perfect something and actually sometimes perfectionism slows you down um but yeah I love the idea of I mean I don't know I I had a quite fortunate experience in school and this is going to be weird because actually I went to something like five schools as a child that was because my parents moved around a lot we came from Georgia which is in Eastern Europe I'm sure a lot of people know where it is but it's not the one in

America um and you know I had two I had two well one sort of kindergarten school in Georgia primary school then we moved to Belfast primary school there secondary school there and then um non-such high school in Surrey and then the Brit school eventually so that's yeah that's quite a lot of schools but I just loved it and I think the reason why I became so kind of into the idea of learning is because in Georgia the schooling was the buildings were grey and they were shut at wintertime because it was too cold to heat the buildings. Whereas once we moved to the UK, the schools were colourful, bright, you know, just that kind of visual and sort of,

I mean, something as basic as heating, you know, made a huge difference. And it just seemed like there was so much opportunity here in the West. I mean, it's interesting, you know, this idea of being a mum, you know, and this idea of femininity definitely comes back for me to Georgia and like witnessing my mum and, you know, my grandma being very much bound to the house. You know, their jobs were to sort of make the food, do the cleaning, you know, really look after all of us, the kids, you know, and the males, the men could sort of go off and they seem to have more freedom. And that really struck me at a very young age as thinking that was very unfair. And I thought, you know, I really want to have my own job. I want to make a career. The female who was an absolute icon for me

was Sigourney Weaver's character Ripley in Aliens because, you know, she absolutely, you know, she was the smartest. She survived the longest. She, you know, she essentially killed off the aliens in that film and she was essentially a really strong female sort of empowerment model for me um so yeah when we moved to the west I just suddenly thought okay this is an opportunity to to really do you know the best I can and and that's why I think I fell in love with learning and education because I thought that's the way to sort of you know get somewhere in life yeah and I guess if

you've if you've come over and you've suddenly got way more opportunities opening up there's a certain pressure of like seizing what's ahead oh my god yeah that absolutely is there's huge pressure um you know and also you've kind of said goodbye to your extended family back home yeah uh and there's always that little bit of guilt of kind of okay we're the lucky ones that got the got the ticket um and that's you know it can be quite delicate but also you know my family are you know I feel so lucky with the family that I was born into they're all incredibly generous really funny you know and they also deal with tough things you know they I've witnessed them dealing with

tough things really well you know they're still they still cherish life um and I love that well I think it must be quite a defining thing if you've had that sort of nomadic lifestyle and had to move around and start new schools and then when you get to somewhere like Brit school and you meet peers you've obviously all joined together because the arts resonate and music, but you've brought with it this acknowledgement, you know that this is a really extra special experience to be able to just do the thing you love day in, day out.

I know, it was magical. And I keep finding it incredible that actually a lot of people don't realise that Brit School is free. And I say this because I know a few years ago they were trying to raise funds because the government had cut, you know, the sixth form funds that were available. So I had the best time there because, yeah, as you say, suddenly everyone was into music. Everyone was into the arts. You know, and essentially we're able to kind of, I just being in that environment it's so powerful and you know what

it makes me realize why now for example um because we've had COVID and because I've become a mum I definitely feel slightly removed from you know that that creative life and the um you know the industry that I love and cherish and I think it is because you know I'm creative life and the, you know, the industry that I love and cherish. And I think it is because, you know, I'm not having that sort of random conversation with my bass player about what he's listening to, you know, or like, you know, or seeing my, you know, the piano player in our band, like play something stunning, and then it sparks something off in your brain. You're like, oh, that makes me think I should write a song in that kind of key. And, you know know all those types of interactions are so important for creative people as you know no I really missed all

that too there's a casual interactions that set the template when everything got so distilled yeah it's like well obviously I love performing but actually it was all the stuff around it that was really important to me as well yeah I know you know meeting up with people and chatting and the setup and as you say the casual bits we go oh actually that's made me think of something and I'm going to use that and what was that you were saying about and I must listen to that and exactly that stuff's really good and I was thinking as well that with you talking about this sort of tough mindset of people you've seen and family members and how they've dealt with stuff but I think the music industry is really really tough and whilst it is very unique to have the level of success that you experience especially so early into your career like you were literally like 19 yeah yeah I was

19 when Closing to Crazy came out which is which is crazy in itself yeah but um sustaining a career is tough and I wonder if sometimes with all the extra armory of things you're learning and stuff you're looking towards and collaborating if it also slightly tries to army you against it of course going away as well 100% can make you more equipped to keep going yeah that's a brilliant way of looking at it um there's no doubt. I mean, I would think, oh, you know, I'm so lucky to have, you know, had the success. So like when I was 18, 19, I absolutely thought when I was 21 that I was like, okay, this will be over in a few years time. Like I was like convinced of it because that's just what you witness. But then I think, yeah, maybe that sort of survival mechanism was constantly learning

constantly sort of working with interesting people and in a way I guess it is a survival mechanism but it works to some extent you know like I collaborated with the gory women's choir in Georgia um in 2016 it was magical and you know they you know they were this choir that were essentially you know they'd been really huge during the soviet times but you know since the breakdown of the soviet from you know 1991 they'd kind of just stayed in their mountains sort of rehearsing in gory practicing in the summer times um and then you know we did this project and we toured Europe they taught me so much there were certain vocal techniques that I hadn't ever realized how to sort of really protect your voice from you know getting too damaged and it was like amazing and then that does lead to more

opportunities and and so I think it is a good thing even though yeah you're right you know you feel like you're in danger of okay this is going to be over soon in terms of the career. But then you sort of, you know, fight against it or you explore various different avenues and it leads to some major positivity. Absolutely. No, I think it's a way of keeping things fresh as well, because then when you work with new people and you keep open to things, if you can keep a kernel of optimism and curiosity about being creative I mean exactly it's the most it's a more fertile soil isn't it for actually come up with new things so true and like I think curiosity is a big big one it is because you kind of you know then you're not being too judgmental about it but of course like I have to say as a a new mum, you know, I do. And also because of COVID, like there is this sort of compounded feeling of, you know, gosh, like I'm not out there as much. You know, you know, will I will I work in the same way as, you know, can I pull myself away from my son to sort of really kind of invest everything that needs to be invested in a piece of work?

And those are quite scary thoughts and obviously being mum for three months I'm kind of still in there how have you found it like I think you can feel your way with it I mean the lovely thing about what we do is that you can set the parameters of when you work and when you don't yeah and actually I think I'm much more at peace now with the part of me that needs to work and get satisfied by that than when I was when I was had my first baby right yeah um but it sounds like you're in a good spot with it because you've had I didn't really think about it as much to be um I when I found out I was having my first i was just starting promoting my second album and it was just it was all a bit of a okay that was unexpected and that wasn't a planned baby

it's still a very wanted baby but i didn't plan on getting pregnant when i did so and then i think because i was in my mid-20s i was 25 when i had sunny and i think i just didn't know what i was supposed to look like being a pop dance artist who was also a new mum. Amazing. I felt like they were quite uncomfortable bedfellows. And can I ask, I mean, you know, how was it in terms of the industry? Because I know sometimes, you know, the people around you, you know, weren't always supportive. But that was really before the sort of mental health conversation kind of came to the fore right absolutely I think there's a few things that have shifted I mean this

is nearly 20 years ago now yeah um I think absolutely mental health but also I think there's a lot more out there in terms of working mothers I just think we see a lot of examples of women you know like Rihanna on the cover of Vogue with her baby and you know doing the Super Bowl and Beyonce and people who just look like they are really working hard and also prioritizing making sure they've got that in their life too yeah yeah whereas I'm not saying there weren't lots around but I just can't really think I couldn't really think of anyone in my my peer group that was also having babies and I think my main reference was like Neneh Cherry who I'd seen on Top of the Pops when I was about eight yeah um but I didn't really know many people I think

at that time because of also the genre of music I was in uh I felt like it was as I say quite clunky to have this sort of music you normally hear in clubs but obviously I'm not going clubbing so I think you know you're you're you're in a more from the outside anyway it looks like you're in a more natural place to be able to let your music and your lifestyle support itself because I was listening I've got as we're talking going around and around your your single golden record which I think is so beautiful and that seems to be a song about understanding about finding happiness really close to home and not feeling like you need to look outside so much. Am I right? No, no, absolutely. And it's, yeah, I mean, there's lots of things in that song,

the scene changing and in a way, yeah, realizing that I was ready to have kids. So when did you actually write that? I wrote it about a month or two before I got pregnant ah okay it's quite remarkable wow because it speaks about your friends having a dinner party and they're talking about their kids growing up yeah and thinking everybody's kind of changing with yeah everyone's exactly everyone's talking about their kids and it's like you know that's not you know I'm making my ninth record soon and yeah um Those are my kids, but of course it's just show business in a way, which means an awful lot, but at the same time it's not.

But you know what, your point about having role models around you is so important, and one of the biggest role models I had as a mum was actually my front of house engineer, Bryony October, who I know you worked with too. Well, she's worked with my, that's the feeling, my husband's band. Yeah, so I've met her. She's really lovely.

I don't know as well as you do. Well, she's, so she's been, you know, a crew member for, since she was like 16 years old. And so she's now a brilliant front of house engineer. So that means, well, you know what that means, but I don't know if the listeners do, which is she kind of, she's got the most important job in the crew

in the sense that she's making sure the sound of the speakers at the venues are perfect. So what we do on stage, she kind of translates that into the audience. And we started working together about five years ago and pretty much from day one, both of us were talking about oh you know really want to have kids but is it the right thing to do when is it the right thing to do

will it kill our careers you know we were always our chat was always about that and then in 2020 she had her little boy called Jesse um and it's been amazing like she's done a phenomenal job of being a mum, she got me into non-disposable nappies, for example, she sent me, like, a six-pager email on, like, which ones are the best ones, how to use them, what the washing is like, you know, she kind of introduced me to the La Leche League, which is the breastfeeding, well, this was obviously after I got pregnant, but, you know, having her there there as a work colleague really kind of just bossing it beautifully it was very inspiring yeah and also for context having having a crew member who's a mother is unusual in itself anyway there's I don't work with very

many female crew it's just they're in the minority but also the fact that working with you has meant that she's been able to bring her baby along is incredibly unusual. Yeah, well, I have to say, you know, we didn't want to let her go. You know, she's brilliant at her job and she didn't want to stop doing because it's a huge part of who she is. So she wanted to bring her baby along. She kind of got everything sorted in terms of, you know, she's lucky to have a mum to be able to come on the road to be the babysitter, you know, and she'd kind of figured everything out. But we did, interestingly enough, we did have a bit of resistance,

you know, amongst some of the other team members. And, you know, fairly enough, they were talking about things like health and safety, like, is it okay to have, you know, will affect brian's capacity to the job which is actually not a cool like that's not cool um but we sort of had to go through a bit of a process and in the end of course the right decision was made it's like okay no you know this is a brilliant person who's great at their job they've got a way of making it work of bringing their baby on the road of course you know health and safety does need to be considered but we can do this um you know and let's be on the right side of history and we did and and honestly it was amazing you know and also if you think about it

like jesse as a two-year-old experienced you know such wonderful things and now he's utterly obsessed with guitars she's messaging me sort of you know videos of him um you know being obsessed with john mayer you can get him on backline he'll give you your back yeah exactly i think as well i was thinking while you were chatting that there's we're actually at a time as well where we're seeing so many more examples of women in lots of different lines of work bringing their babies and making it visible you know thinking about like jacinda hann being the prime minister of new zealand and giving birth while it visible. You know, thinking about like Jacinda Ardern being the Prime Minister of New Zealand and giving birth while she's, you know,

things like that, that just, this is all relatively recent, isn't it? And I think as well, when you were saying before about how it works, I think, I think you can have a bit of trial and error as well. Yeah, of course. You can have your instinct about what might work and then if you go away and you think,

actually, no, I would have much preferred this if I'd just been able to focus. Or if actually I would have found this much better if I'd brought my baby or whatever it is that works for you. Exactly. Yeah, it doesn't need to be perfection, does it? I mean, I do feel a little bit. It's a moving feast. It's pretty intense at Jihinda. She had to, you know, obviously step aside now, right?

And I mean, I think politics is incredibly different to what we do. Yes. I mean, we're able to sort of take time out and be like, okay, I'm taking two years off, I'm going to write songs, I'm going to spend it with my family. Yeah. But it, you know, I think jobs like that. And it, I really think it's a shame because, you know, politics is such an important job and you want females to be there. Yeah. You know, I mean, even Nicola Sturgeon resigning, you know know she mentioned her family too and her nephews and nieces I believe um you know it's like you know how do they how how does that job get given a bit of a break where where it is a lot more welcoming for women and mothers

yeah but I suppose the the conversations have as well as about the broader picture of people having a life outside of their work full stop, even if it's not going home because they're a parent. Of course, you know, fathers would be included in that and needing to be prioritised. But I think also, you know, just understanding that we can make working days fit around people being able to, you know, get home to their pet, get home to their hobbies, get home to whatever it is that gives them that other headspace. Get home to their pet, get home to their hobbies, get home to whatever it is that gives them that other headspace because there's not really many things where you need to be

that married to your job. I don't know if many people get that much satisfaction out of that. And there's probably a lot of people keeping up front, so going, yeah, it's fine, I'll work till 10, and thinking, this means I won't be able to go and visit my relative, this means I won't be able to get home and water my plants, whatever it might be. Yeah, and often it's good for the job to actually step away exactly you know

take a walk with your family and nature and because then it inspires you right absolutely and talking of inspiration so what were you have you did you write songs as well while you were pregnant or was the album pretty much done it was pretty I mean there was a little bit of finishing of the song so there was about three or four that was sort of having finishing touches when I was pregnant so the main thing was doing a tour when you were pregnant yeah exactly yeah so I toured and I was very much like oh I don't know if this is going to work I didn't know what kind of pregnancy I was going to have I was really afraid of that I was like I'm gonna am I gonna be puking up every single day and um but it was honestly it was fine you know there was I had the weirdest nausea of

like if someone spoke about food in detail oh really really weird so you know if someone described a menu I'd be like okay now I feel nauseous but I could eat anything yeah um and it was amazing you know to step out on stage you know being like six months pregnant yeah and also the audiences were great because obviously I hadn't toured because of COVID you know, being like six months pregnant. Yeah. And also the audiences were great because obviously I hadn't toured because of COVID, you know, and the atmospheres were just amazing. Yeah. Is that the right way of saying it? The atmosphere was amazing.

Yeah, and it's also, it's sometimes surprising because you feel like when you, you know, your body's changing and you've got your bump. And I found sometimes it made me feel a bit, I'd feel a bit ridiculous physically. And then other times I'd feel incredible yeah yeah yeah well I know I mean I really uh there was one gig towards the end of that tour and it was very hot and it was an outside gig and luckily it was actually the last show um actually no it was the second to last show and I thought oh my god I've just reached my limit.

Because I kind of felt like there was also lots of insects flying around. I don't know if you ever do that. And I remember just really overheating and thinking, oh my God, am I going to pass out? Thankfully, I didn't. But I remember thinking, I'm glad we're just coming to the end of this now. Yeah, there comes a point where you think, I think maybe I need to take it for easier now.

Yeah, exactly. And I also remember, I think maybe I need to take it a bit easier now. Yeah, exactly. And I also remember, I think you wrote an article, was it for Grazia, where you were talking about new motherhood and you described when you first went out as a new family and how everything looked, the colours looked extra special. Yeah, bright. It was amazing. I mean, it was probably four or five days or not going outside. I was in hospital for a couple of days, you know, and then just thing of kind of staying at home. But yeah, I felt like, I mean, I'm close to the park here in London. And, you know, I walk there almost every day and have been for the last 20 odd years. But this walk for the first time as a family was just extraordinary.

but this walk for the first time as a family was just extraordinary I mean I literally felt like I don't know I was on some kind of drugs and my partner did say he was like well it probably is something to do with you know the drugs you were given but I was like no no I think it's the motherhood and yeah it just felt extraordinary and you know what we actually Cassandra was literally a week old we got stopped so many times um you know by people just being curious to sort of you know see a tiny tiny baby I mean you always get stopped for the dogs in the park yeah but uh it was cute to get stopped for the baby that is cute I wonder like I suppose it's still as I say very early days but it sounds like Sandra is going to have a very different childhood to the one you've had. Yeah. And have you thought much about, because I know how proud you are to be from Georgia,

and I wondered how you are, if there's certain things you're thinking of integrating. Yeah, that's such a good question. Because I kind of feel like it's also hinting at the idea of, you know, I have a very privileged life now. You know, I live in West London. You know, my parents are close by. You know, I mean, I'd say I'm not materialistic, but, you know, still, like, to not have to worry too much about money is an incredibly sort of rare way to live.

And so, yeah, I kind of think lots about how do we make sure that Sandro isn't spoiled, you know, that he grows up to be a good citizen of the world. And of course, you know, the fact that I do have that background in Georgia, I think that will help in some ways, because, you know, I really want to spend summers there with Sandro. I want him to experience, you know, playing out in the streets the way I did you know within safety sort of measuring it in a safe way yeah no it is it was safe but it was like it was great because you know the weather was great in Georgia in the summer times and um you know you could just stay outside for hours so I really you know want him

to see that and then of course I mean I think he'll you know there's there's so much homelessness in London for example so like he'll see that obviously and you know I think as long as you give them that context right yeah um but how do you do it like how do you know being well living a privileged life if if you don't mind me saying so no I don't mind I think uh it's something you think about quite a lot. And actually, not long ago, I spoke to one of the women who's on Dragon's Den. She's called Sarah Davies. And she said that for her,

it comes down to your, you know, your sort of moral compass as a family, really, and your values. And I actually thought that was a really neat way of summing it up. Because I actually think, broadly broadly speaking your emotional relationship to to lots of things are sort of formed when you're quite little whether it be um love or money or probably music there's lots of things that's a strands are there from the get-go and if you're

raised to value you know value having things and opportunities yeah and as you say contextualize that it's not the same for everybody I think as you as you were saying it's sort of about being like a decent person with it yeah as a as a parent yourself right you know so lead by example yeah and and if you start to hear something creeping and you don't think sounds like the right way around just sort of like say I mean I just try and catch it with my kids really yeah and say actually we're really lucky that we could think about doing that or aren't we lucky that we can all go to cinema and we've all been able to come and we get to have popcorn away you know of course it's a ridiculous thing but whatever might slightly resonate with them

yeah as a as a privileged thing really yeah of course and as they get older and they grow you know like a lot of us you you speak to your peers, you start to look at new stories, all these kind of things. And just keeping an open conversation about, I don't know, I suppose the unfairness of things, really. Yeah, of course. And the ways you can help as well, be engaged, I suppose. But I did think when she said about values, I thought, actually, I think it does come down to that. about values although actually I think it does come down to that because you could have you can you know I think you can have a very um I think what I'm trying to say you can have a relationship with money that actually stays the same whether you've got a lot or a little if that makes sense

yeah of course oh that is interesting actually because I think the psychology around money is yeah quite interesting so for example um you know I mean my dad was always a doctor but because of the fact that we're in Georgia there was a time where he could have earned more as a taxi driver than as a doctor you know so basically the country's infrastructure had completely collapsed you know so I kind of grew up in a family that was always concerned about money um you know and worried about it it sort of disappearing and um and I I think maybe that's why then yeah when I kind of uh did well in the music industry and made some money I was always like oh it's gonna go away at some point and actually a couple of years ago I did one of my

sort of journal kind of goals for the year and I don't do this every year but I happen to do it that year because bullet journals were a big thing do you remember that I do remember yeah and I actually put down um become like emotionally sort of stable with regards to money I mean of course that's not an easy thing to do but you know when I yeah when I look at my life the facts are okay I don't need to worry about it too much but actually it does still sometimes kind of haunt me and um and so I did that and it did definitely help because I did I remember uh seeing something from you where you were saying that you love all aspects of music making the creative side but also the sort of corporate side as well is that something you are well yeah well yeah just to understand it no you know it's just to be able to like become independent from it you know sorry become like independent out of

the fact that you can you know as you say you have the freedom to like go on a nice holiday or yeah go to the cinema um it's it's cool like it's cool to be able to do that with music you know with something fun but you know you really do have to work super hard um and then manage your sort of mental health with how hard you work I mean I definitely didn't do that well at a certain point I had a I had a burnout in 2010 um you know and then since then I've had to just go you know what I have to do what sort of what is the best without kind of killing myself um you know and essentially eventually it does become easier because you know I sort of realized actually there are fun ways of working you know and also particularly like for example with this record

um I wanted it to feel like a blue sky record and I thought well if it's going to be a blue sky record then the process needs to be quite blue sky too you know and this was a time when I just met my partner you know you know just falling in love um just realizing how great and easy it was and and I sort of wanted to capture those feelings and put it in the work that's pretty much the most ideal way of writing a blue sky record. Yeah, I guess, you know, just essentially, yeah, sort of taking in what is actually happening to you. But then, yeah, you know, I'm so glad I'm here now because in 2010 it kind of got pretty bad.

And I heard you saying you were quite grateful for that experience and that it sort of showed you you're not invincible but also did it make you shift things around to protect yourself oh yeah massively so um yeah the priorities essentially really shifted and actually it was funny enough it was the breakdown that made me realize I did want to become a mum um because before that I was very much like I don't know if having a family is going to be for me but suddenly when I felt like I was going to die um and came back from the brink of hell I suddenly realized no actually you know it'll it's very important for me to you know to yeah to find someone and start a family well I think it's really amazing how open you you were and continue to be about

that experience because I think that all feeds into helping everybody have a much better relationship with talking about their mental health and looking out for other people and you know with the level of life you're living at that time with your work and being so sort of there's a thing isn't there in the music industry where they think the only good diary is a busy diary and actually that feeling when you're in the middle of that yeah is so claustrophobic and terrifying exactly when I had panic attacks that was my way of manifesting but but I think it sounds like you were living at next level in terms of the demands on you at that time yeah Yeah, it was pretty intense.

I mean, I remember there was a particular, the summer just before, I flew to America for like a couple of meetings just for two days. Then I had to fly back to Europe. I was doing a show in Denmark, you know, and then we're about to also hit a big European tour in the autumn time so it was pretty intense you know and also like getting up for breakfast tv shows yeah you know and doing that in like Denmark Germany France it was pretty mad and everybody's just talking about and then we got this and then we got that and they're all excited and you're thinking I don't feel excited about anything you're talking about right now because I know I've got to be there and I've got to be on it and I've got to deliver the show and exactly it only it only works if I am good at what I'm doing I know yeah

and that pressure is pretty immense but in a way what was tough about it was it wasn't like there was any one person that was kind of responsible for it it was just the way it worked so we had you know the promo person in Holland for example and the promo person in Germany and in France they all want to do really good jobs so they're trying to like get you the work you know get you those opportunities um same for America or the UK so and it was like well no I can't do all of these things because you couldn't say that to them because it meant that you know yeah you don't demotivate them yeah exactly or reject all the work they've been doing but at the same time you're thinking how on earth

am I going to spread myself that thin exactly the answer is you can't no absolutely and I guess if you're someone that's always been resilient and coped well and professional and turned up on time and done the job once you've experienced something where you show you know the the bits of you that can't handle it it must make you open up to being hugely empathetic actually for all all people experiencing anything like that well yeah of course I mean it's um it's astonishing um I ended up being in hospital for six weeks. And I had a phenomenal doctor looking after me, Dr. Mike McPhillips. And the entire team at the 90-kill hospital were fantastic, actually. And he then looked after me for the two years sort of post the breakdown.

I did exactly what he told me to do in terms of the medication, got weaned off them exactly as I ought to have been. And I'd see him sort of once a year, but there wasn't often a need to see him. And I'm now talking about this because I'm leading to the fact, and it's just so devastating that he took his own life last year. And it was just such a shock to all of us. Oh, Katie, I'm so sorry. I know, it's just horrendous. You know, and he's probably one of the best psychiatrists in,

you know, in London, if not the UK, in the world. So you realise actually, you know, even for the people that work in the sector, there's always that kind of vulnerability and fragility, and you just never know what can happen, what can suddenly change. God, that's very shocking, though, isn't it? I suppose as well for people if they're very good at really having quite a holistic approach and really listening to people and taking on board what brought them to the point where they would go and see him and maybe there's a point where you're just taking on so much yeah maybe yeah absolutely I mean and of course it's it's

just so you know I find it tough to talk about but he was a truly fantastic person and he did you know such a great job um in helping me out but you yeah you realize it is important to kind of keep talking about it and it's it's quite remarkable what the mind can do um you know it can lead you to imagine the most exquisite things and also the most horrible things and um yeah I mean I think it's just important that we do keep talking about it absolutely no and I think I do think the taboo of all of it is is nothing compared to what used to be really I think yeah I mean I never got do think the taboo of all of it is is nothing compared to what used to be really I think yeah I mean I never got why it was taboo to talk about it you know it was quite bizarre I mean you know I really hope I'm going to be teaching Sandro you know probably when he's

sort of eight nine years old about how to deal with anxiety attacks panic attacks um you know what mental health issues look like um just so that he's ready either you know hopefully not for himself but you never know or for his friends yeah um i think it's a useful tool to have absolutely and i think also being open to getting help when you need help is always a good thing i've done that with my kids too i think that's pretty vital and also you know if you just understand it can be that anyone can be susceptible and that there's absolutely nothing that you know is detrimental about that it's actually just everything's got pros and cons in terms of how people are balanced and if you're you know particularly emotional one

way it might mean you're really open to that and when you know that about yourself it's quite good to be aware of it um i know i'm totally i know the taboo element especially especially because once you do open up you invariably find lots of people have experienced it themselves or someone they care about and it's actually it's just part of exactly it's complexity of being human taking on board and you also get to you know as you say about the highs and lows you know if you think about you in 2010 feel like that cut to you in 2023 walking around the park and everything's I know it's quite it's a nice nice flip of the coin really I know and it sounds like with Sandra he's such a wanted baby and now you're just gonna be unfolding the next bit of your career with him in tow. I know.

It's going to be remarkable. I mean, I don't know if he's going to, you know, want to go into music. He'll probably have a lot of exposure to music. Yeah, all around him. Yeah. Can I ask a slightly non sequitur question? Are you actually really into roller coasters and things like that? Oh.

I was, madly. Because I love all that kind of stuff. Do you? I do. Amazing. Because I saw you have a guinness world record for the the deepest underwater yeah yeah yeah it's bizarre that is really really weird well basically we had a phone call when like just before nine million bicycles came out um and we were told that uh this um gas rig off the coast of Norway

is celebrating its 10-year anniversary, and they want to have a world record, and would I be up for performing at the bottom of it? I thought, well, tell me what exactly it involves, and it did sound like fun, because it involved doing all the helicopter training of a helicopter. They have a lot of crashers, apparently, and so everyone that goes out

to the gas rig has to be trained to essentially survive a helicopter crash in the ocean which they which you do by um going to a helicopter that's lowered into a swimming pool turned upside down and then you have to break the window underwater and like get get out um so yeah it was pretty pretty intense but that's doing that when you know you're safe because it's just a test thing yeah i'm doing that in real life yeah i know can you imagine and then the um the lift took like 10 minutes to go down because i think because of the pressure they're not allowed to have like it can't be really fast yeah yeah it was quite bizarre exactly um and then the build well the room itself wasn't glass so like

you didn't see fishes sort of floating out they haven't built it for beauty no exactly it's just it's just like being in a massive building um and I sort of I would look up and you couldn't see the end you couldn't see the ceiling basically also I like the fact that they asked you and you said yes because I think I had a similar thing once where I was asked to do um an advert for crisps but in zero gravity I feel like there's not that many people that say yes I love that fantastic what was that like then like oh it's great so you went up on one of those flights right yeah they do these parabolas where they sort of drop the plane and then you, like, float inside it. So it feels like you're experiencing zero gravity.

That's amazing. Which is, yeah, totally insane. But you can literally push off one ledge and then you just float until you hit the other side of the plane. But I do think we're quite unique if we say yes to these things. Do you still have that, though? Like, would you? Because I've...

You're waning yeah i'm definitely taking us to thought park tomorrow cool well i'll be up for that there we go um i think i've got worse with heights okay yeah you know one of those things it all creeps in i mean i'm 43 now and i just feel like all the stuff you've seen is like the sort of cliches things that happen when you get sort of middle-aged happening to me. So, yeah, I get freaked out with that. But actual rides where I know I'm safe and, yeah, I'm really into that, yeah. Because I did skydives. My first one was, I think, when I turned 21.

Then another one, like, two years later. So I did about five. Okay. Sort of spread out over the years. Tandem or? Actually, the first two were static line jumps because I was actually aiming to become a skydiver. This is pretty mad yeah. Whoa. So essentially well static line is you know you you come out of the plane and the parachute opens instantly

because it's attached to the plane. Right. And then the next two were in tandem and each year as I did them the fear kind of crept further up. Yeah, I can imagine that. Which really sucks. And that definitely interferes with your ambition to become a skydiver. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, that's it. The first time it was, you know, on my own.

Second time it was on my own, but a little bit like, hmm. And then I sort of started doing it in tandem. Do you feel like you were sort of narrowing your chances of something happening? I don't know. It was just uh I don't know I think it was I think it was the heights for me too like I remember I had shaking knees more yeah the sort of later I did them I think as well once you have a small person you're responsible for the idea of putting yourself into position where you might exactly actually have something bad happen does seem you know obviously there are people who do you know high-risk jobs all the time with kids but if it's something you're choosing to do yeah no exactly because I've thought about doing things like um wing walking

oh lovely I'd like to try that wow and also uh you know when they do the sort of red devil type aerobatics I'd quite like to be in not do it but sit there while they do that amazing but um but then sometimes i think it's kind of yeah it'd just be a sad way for my kids to say well our mom was wing walking one day just for fun and brilliant but i think when you can do it with your kids that's quite fun i've definitely done some things with you with them and that's nice um my eldest has got the same thing as me we both like a roller coaster fantastic so don't worry you might be sat there with sandra yeah exactly here we go fantastic oh well um i'm hoping if i hang around long enough talking to you i might

actually get to see your baby. I know. You know what? Actually, he's due a feed about half to hour. I could give my mum a call, see if they're close by. In the meantime, I wish you all the best with the new album. Thank you so much. The song I've heard is so beautiful. I genuinely think it's gorgeous.

And I think your career has had so much interest and complexity and beautiful stuff. Oh, and as an aside, everybody I spoke to when I said I was coming to see you had nothing but lovely things to say, which is really cool. And I spoke this morning to my radio producer, David, and he told me he had you on when he was producing Terry Wogan's show. Oh, wonderful. And Mark Owen was there as well.

Oh, wow. And you were having your picture taken, and Mark Owen said, where are you from? And you said, Georgia. And you went, America. Oh, yeah. And Terry Wogan thought it was really funny. So, yeah, it happens to the best of us. But yeah, I just wish you continued success, Katie. Thank you so much. God bless you.

It's been an absolute pleasure. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, so that was lovely Katie Melua, who also has a very lovely baby i might add who i met shortly after we finished talking and i wish her all the best for the new album and all her touring i think um it's beautiful that she's making such a lovely album and that she's found motherhood so empowering that does not always happen but it's a really lovely thing that she spoke about that especially after having such dark days it's nice that the sun has come out for her again

and she's feeling good and I thank her very much for her candle and I'm sure you would appreciate that too because it's it's good for people to talk about about when they've felt like that but also to remind people that when you speak about it, it's generally because you're at a place where you're feeling so much better. And also, you know, for me, it's so nice speaking to other singers. I'm just constantly curious to find out how they do that. You know, working, being a mum and raising a kid and wanting to be with them, but also needing to do the thing for yourself and also how it makes you feel with your creative self, like where it influences you, what songs you want to write, how it makes you sing.

All of those things. I found it such a big shift for me. And actually, it seems like with Katie having her baby and then working on an album at the same time, that's impressive. I don't think I could have done that with my first baby, actually. time that's impressive I I don't think I could have done that with my first baby actually when I had Sonny I just needed to kind of stop and catch my breath and uh took me ages to write my third album after I'd had him I just didn't really know which way was up for a while and uh yeah so I didn't really get that kind of confidence of keeping my creative stuff going alongside being a mum I think I got better as I went on but I think really it was not until my like fourth kid that I felt like I could really interweave them like that so I definitely didn't get there like

she did but I do really appreciate that she spoke to me and thank you to her warmth and her generosity and thank you to you for listening of course and I hope everything is all right with you I'm just happy to be back I'm really happy I can speak again if you were listening to the last series and the way I was talking at the end of that blimey that was while I was on European tour and I got sick and uh got through the gigs but oh my god my speaking voice I'm sorry if you had that rattling around in your ears it's nice to be able to talk and to sing again great and I've realized actually the weekend after this I have my first festival so that means we've really kind of got into festival season

again isn't that crazy you going to any festivals this year so many lovely ones around I'm playing lots of them so hopefully I'll see you there and um last year we had such a lot of gorgeous sunny days so that'd be nice again please but anyway it'd be nice to be in the field singing at folk again my first one of the season is in brighton so that's going to be fun i love going to brighton can't wait actually and in the meantime yeah just keep the series going we've got people from again all walks of life some really interesting conversations i kind of i don't know why it's funny. I could just tell you now how I've got, but I kind of quite like eking it out,

partly because I still don't know what order I'm going to do things in, but also because I kind of feel like that's quite fun, the surprise. And each week the person can stand, you know, my guests that week can kind of stand in their own space. So yeah, you're going to find out next week, aren't you?

It's a little uh tantalizing cliffhanger I'm leaving you on anyway I'm now gonna I've got the rest of the day off work so I'm going to do a couple of little jobs and then I've got to um organize myself for these birthdays coming up go and get that helium canister out the attic and uh so out the balloons and the cake and all that stuff it's nice I can't believe my oldest baby's gonna be 20 next year blimey that is crazy but I'm excited for him it's funny all he has to do is get older and I'm like super proud and excited I genuinely think I get more excited about his birthdays than he does he's quite kind of nonchalant I'm like you're gonna be 19 this is

amazing anyway uh i hope everything's cool with you thank you so much for coming to find me here again and should we do it all again next week i think so great see you soon have a good week speaking of it bye Thank you.