Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 99: Kate Ferdinand

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

Kate Ferdinand is a TV personality and author who is married to footballer Rio Ferdinand. Kate was best known on TV for appearing on Towie and now has a successful podcast called Blended. 1 in 4 families in Britain are now blended and Kate is stepmum to Rio's 3 older children Lorenz, Tate and Tia. She loves them as her own children. She and Rio also have a toddler called Cree and she is expecting a new baby next month. So soon she'll have five children, just like me!Kate talked to me about her two books. How to Build a Family, in which she shares tips about being a step parent. And a children's book called The Family Tree about a blended family but from a child's point of view.She talked to me very candidly about how she feels that she and Rio saved each other when they met. And having grown up in a blended family myself, I was genuinely moved by the love she so clearly has for their older children.Spinning Plates is presented by Sophie Ellis-Bextor, produced by Claire Jones and post-production by Richard Jones Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing It can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to spinning plates Hello, how are you doing? I'm just speaking to you from my garden. It's a lovely evening But well, it's a bit frustrating. I'm not home for very long. I landed back from Oslo today. I did a festival there in Norway called Over Oslo. Possibly one of the most beautiful festivals I've ever done. Very,

very pretty. Up on, there's also a ski slope in Oslo, just outside the city centre, looking down over the city, pine trees on either side, the backstage sloped down to a beautiful lake where we all went swimming. It's pretty gorgeous, actually. Can you play on me outside? Yes, I'm going to play, Mickey. Outside? Yes, outside. Yeah, good idea. And then we're home now. I just unpacked one bag, packed up a load of other bags, and then tonight at 10pm,

I'm going on the tour bus. I'm saying that quietly because if Mickey hears, he'll want to come with me. And I'm going to Isle of Wight Festival, playing there tomorrow, Cardiff Pride on Saturday, and Exeter Foodie Festival on Sunday. And home at the beginning of next week,

for a few days. I'm going to Italy. You want to come, Mick? You're coming. You're coming, okay. I'm coming to Italy. Oh okay oh yeah we're definitely gonna go to Italy uh that's Jesse bouncing the ball yes Mickey when can we play outside two seconds I'm just gonna tell everybody tell my lovely listener about who's this week's guest and then um play with you Mickey this week's guest is Kate F play with you mickey this week's guest is kate ferdinand

i really liked kate very warm very likable um she spoke really well about finding herself a stepmother she is married to uh rio ferdinand they have one child together and she also found herself becoming a step parent to his three three children from his first marriage age 12 14 16 now but when they met I think they were five seven nine oh my gosh that magnet in my pocket again do I put it in the bowl uh let it cool down no you can't put in the bottle when it's hot it will melt the plastic. Take the tea bag out and then just let the, until it's cold really. One of my sons is making iced tea but he's in a hurry. You can't be in a hurry with iced tea. Sorry this is a very disjointed introduction for you. What was I saying? Yeah so she's basically a mother of four, one of them a biological mother, and she is expecting another baby.

I think she's only about two or three weeks from giving birth, actually. She's also just published two books, one that is for children, a picture book, and one that is for anyone who's looking into what it means to be in a blended family, which is actually a lot of the population. I think it's something like one in four. Oh, golly, I should have researched that. I think it's one in four of the population. We talk about it in the podcast.

She's much more accurate than me. Sorry for saying um so much. Do you know what? I've probably told you this before, but ages ago, a lady who worked at Radio 4 said to me, I think you have hyperfluency, you never say um. And now every time I say um, I just feel like I'm letting that woman down. I'm letting you down, let myself down.

As I'm circling the garden talking to you, I'm also stepping over a massive bit of guttering. The kit broke off, he kicked a football into the guttering it's all snapped off the wall that's annoying anyway Kate was lovely it's a really lovely conversation her books are really beautiful I own both of them they're really lovely the kids book is a really sweet read and it's nice actually because I mean I grew up with two parents um so I went from one household to another and I didn't really see family life like that in much culture I didn't see it on TV I didn't read it in books but I know that a lot of my friends were also sharing assembly experience anyway I'm gonna go and play with Nikki have a listen to lovely Kate and I'll see you in the other song Nikki. Have a listen to lovely Kate and I'll see you on the other side.

So, well, let's start with how are you? How are you, Kate? Hello. Today, I'm a little bit tired. I think depending on what day it is, I do answer that question differently is what I've realised. I think I spoke to someone the other day and I'm like, I'm feeling great. Pregnancy's like really good this time. And today I'm shattered. But I'm good. I'm just, it's up and down with the pregnancy. Some days I feel I can take on the world and some days I'm feeling like I can't get out of bed, in all honesty.

Yes, I remember that feeling very well because you're about to be mother of a family of five, which is my situation. I have five kids, so. Will I be okay? Can you help me here, um you know what you're going to be more than okay it sounds a little bit weird but I actually found five a little bit easier than when I had less because you just realize you cannot be all things to all people so I think it

kind of lets you off the hook a tiny bit with you can't physically be across it all anymore not that I ever really was but you know that feeling that you have to be oh my gosh you know what since I've been pregnant I finally feel like I have had to let go of that because I always strived for like perfection want to do everything and I've realized I'm tired I've got to look after myself and this baby and I actually can't do anything it's kind of like set me free a little bit so I understand completely yeah what you're saying yeah yeah and it's a special time isn't it and you've got a very sort of physical manifestation of needing to look after yourself which is always a good thing for everybody around you as well because they can be like yes i definitely need to you know ease off on what we're asking her to do kind of kind of yes exactly except for your two-year-old who

probably hasn't really taken it much into account at all he no well i mean he doesn't know he says baby sister's in the belly but I don't think he's quite related to that he's not going to be the center of attention because he's obviously he's got three big brother sorry three big siblings two brothers and a sister and he is kind of like gets all the attention and I think it's going to be a real big shock to the system yeah there is a little bit of that and also I think for little ones it's so abstract I mean what does it really mean anyway? I mean, even for my kids now, like my youngest is four,

and him understanding that he used to be in my tummy is quite bonkers to him. To be honest, it's quite weird for me. Like, you know, when you're pregnant, you think, we actually grow these humans, and then they turn out like a baby, and then I'm looking at the big kids, 16, and he's not my biological child. I'm thinking, and then it turns into an adult. Like, how does that even happen? It's quite a miracle, isn't it?

It absolutely is. I know, it's kind of crazy. And also it starts off, you know, can't even see it. And then it's like, yeah, full-size baby. And when it comes out, I still think it's always a surprise to me of like, oh yeah, there is an actual baby. Like, I recognise that. Oh my word, that was in my tummy all that time.

Crazy, isn't it? So your baby is just one of a few releases you have this year. So you've got two books as well as a baby. It's all the Bs, books and babies. So can you tell me a little bit about your books? Because they both sound amazing, but quite different, I think. I'm so excited. And, I mean, you can never really plan.

You don't really exactly plan for a baby it just comes when it's the right time I feel like everything has come at once I'm not complaining though because I'm so excited about all three things so I've got my first book which is coming out is called how to build a family and it's all around blended families um basically when I become a step-parent I kind of didn't really know where to turn or what to do and just wanted a bit of advice and I'm hoping that this book is kind of that it's got a little bit of my story um which is only one story because I'm a step mom and I live full-time with my step kids and they've lost their mum um so then it's lots of experts and kind of like everyday

people's stories as well of different um experiences and advice little tips kind of like a guide when you're struggling something to pick up and not feel alone so I'm so excited about that it's always nerve-wracking I brought up one book before and it's a bit nerve-wracking because you know people haven't read it yet and you're really hoping that it's going to be helpful, but really excited about it, to be honest with you. Yeah, that is lovely. And I think it's going to be such an essential bit of reading because I think it's funny because, you know,

in the build-up talking to you, I was thinking a lot about the blended family idea. I'm from that. I'm an only child from my mum and dad and then they both remarried and I've got brothers and sisters on both sides. And and actually I don't think I've got very many peers who are from a kind of I don't know this sort of you know typical traditional you know nuclear family that's portrayed in so many things but actually I still feel like it's not really that

visible when it comes to looking outside of yourself you know if you're normally reading a picture book if you're watching a film, it's quite often, you know, what someone would sort of write on paper is the typical that actually isn't. And it's complex, isn't it? These things, families are complex in that way. It really is. And that leads me on to my second book, which is The Family Tree. And that's more of a kid's book.

Because I do feel like exactly what you say, I don't really pick up books for my children and can see our family represented in the books it's normally like your standard mum dad and kids and I just want to kind of change the what's the word um I want that to be available for kids and them to see themselves represented and be normal and also one in four families are blended and it's good to be able to see yourself in a book, even if you're not blended,

for you to be able to understand other people's situations. So I'm really excited about the kids' book as well because I can't wait to read it to my children and it's really similar to our story. It's like a lady that comes along and the kids aren't that excited about her at the beginning and then all of a sudden they bake a cake. This isn't me, by the way, because I'm not very good at baking cakes,

but she's really good at baking and they all bring a little bit of something to each other. It's just a really sweet story. It is a really sweet story. I've actually read it. Oh, have you? Yeah, I have. I was very lucky. Oh, did you like it? I thought it was adorable, actually, and really beautifully done.

And there were some really lovely little details in there. I thought it was really sensitive. And I thought, yeah, I thought it was really beautifully done. It's a lovely story. I think my kids would really enjoy it. Oh, my God, that's so good to hear. Because it's not out, not really. I've only had a couple of people read it.

So that's good feedback. Thank you. Yeah, and lovely illustrations as well. Thank you. I can't take credit for any of that any of the illustrations no it's a lovely story and I think you know one in four families that's a lot of people to be representing out there and as you say just to give it a bit of um give it some perspective as well so that kids can see themselves reflected out there I think it's um it's so important and I like the fact that it doesn't shy away

in that book from talking about the kids feeling uncomfortable and feeling sad because sometimes when you're small, you can't really always articulate those things. But knowing that those feelings are okay and they're going to come is perfectly normal and okay. Yes. You know what? That's a big thing. I think we're always trying to say that everything's perfect and everything's okay and we want to be happy all the time. And you know what? It's not always reality. So it's okay to be sad. It's okay to be happy and everything's okay and we will have to be happy all the time and you know what it's not always reality so it's okay to be sad it's okay to be happy it's okay to feel funny about things and I really wanted that to come through in the book so I'm glad that you've said that well I do think as well you strike me as someone who's so brilliantly in touch with your

emotions and I wondered if you've always been that way it seems quite a key part of who you are you know a lot of people ask me that question I think I'm very I'm quite an emotional being um I don't know if it's because I'm an only child um and I didn't um grow up with my dad around my mum we have a kind of like fractured relationship throughout my teenage years and things like that so I always felt as though it was only me who understood me so I really had to get to know and understand myself in order to get through if that makes sense so I'm just really in touch with my feelings and how I feel I self-assess quite a lot you know I'm always questioning myself am I doing the right thing so I think maybe it's just because of my upbringing yeah well I think so much of our you know upbringing determined so much about us and

obviously you didn't know but then you were building this kind of backpack of of things you were going to need when it came to meeting your partner and finding yourself getting to know children who are I guess then they must have been ranging in age from something like five through to about ten and getting to understand that bit of their their childhood and where they were at because one thing I've noticed is such a consistent thing with you and it's so brilliant and gorgeous is that you seem to really want to see your children your older children as whole people and really listen to them and sort of walk in step with them, which is the thing I think that can be really tricky for a lot of people, whether that's their biological children or not,

just because sometimes they get older and those forks in the road. It's hard to work to keep in step with kids as they get older. I just think it's really important that as a child, as anyone, but especially as a child, you feel heard and understood. Like I said, sometimes I felt a bit alone and I didn't have those people to talk to when I was younger. And so that's really important for me, that my kids feel like, you know, we're listening.

We might not necessarily agree with everything that they're saying, but just to listen and feel heard I think is really powerful and it helps you feel secure and loved. And for me, Andrea, I feel like I want home really powerful and it helps you feel secure and loved and for me and Rio I feel like I want home to be a safe place where you're you feel completely that you can be yourself and you've got people to rely on so that's a really big factor of our parenting I'd say. Oh my goodness I literally say exactly the same thing with my kids here I'm like home should be a space where you can just be exactly who you are and no one's going to mock you or make fun of you or make

you feel like you've got to diminish or reduce any aspect of who you are it's got to be that safe space the world is going to do enough of that when you get older you want this to be the bit where they build that resilience in themselves I think but don't get me wrong with all these siblings they'll take the mick out of each other. They all are crazy with each other, but they can feel that they can just be whoever they want to be, really. It's so crucial. And actually, it builds a core of who you are pretty much for the rest of your life, I think, if you have that.

Yeah, let's hope so. Let's hope it'll turn out fabulous. As a parent, you are sorry to interrupt you. You are just thinking, you're just trying to get it right, aren't you? And you do fuck up sometimes or make little mistakes. And no one really knows what they're doing. So we're all just hoping that our kids turn out great. You don't really know.

I know. It's so true. And yeah, absolutely. It's so funny. I was literally talking about that this morning, just saying, I've realised that for a lot of my life, I have this woman in my head whose situation is virtually identical to mine except that she does everything that bit

better she achieves that bit more she's a bit more across things and it's actually complete bollocks it's like so unhelpful having that woman live there it is it really is but it's like that comparison and trying to get everything perfect it's's just got to let it go, haven't we? Definitely. And I did think of you when you had quite an unusual situation. No, not the first one that we'd have gone through it. But when you had your first biological baby, you obviously already had kids that you were mothering who were that bit older.

And usually when you have your first baby, you're not really sure where the road's going to lead you. When I had my last one, Mickey, who's now four, my oldest was 14. And it was like the most sort of sober, sober time I had him, if you know what I mean, because I knew the stages that were going to follow. It wasn't just about that early childhood. And I was wondering how that was for you, having that bit first and then having the baby next. Really confusing, actually, because I always say I feel like I'm kind of okay parenting from six onwards and I knew it kind of

exactly what I was doing because I've got used to that role sorry and all of a sudden a baby comes along and you know you're in that first baby bubble and you just sleep when, well, people say that, but, you know, sleep when the baby sleeps, which you don't do. But, you know, you just go with the baby. It's all about the baby. And I didn't really have that kind of first, it was my first biological child, but I didn't have that first baby experience.

And at times I did find that really difficult because I didn't really know what I was, well, I didn't know what I was doing for newborn, but I was already a mum, like not a biological mum, but I feel like a mum. So that was something that it took me a while to get my head around. But then on the flip side of that, I had these three big kids that like adored their new brother and wanted to help. So it was amazing.

It's like just a kind of rollercoaster of emotions. And I was completely just learning on the job, which everyone is. And I think hopefully it'll be a bit easier this time because I've now gone through it. But it's still the juggle, I think. It's still like having the new baby for the first time with Cree,

but then I've still got to do all the P kits and I've still got to do this and I'm not really doing it very well because I'm all over the place. Whereas normally, like you you say I think you're just a bit used to what's come like I don't feel as anxious this time because I've done it if that makes sense yeah of course definitely I definitely think that sets in I also wonder if you've noticed that sometimes little babies and toddlers can be a really good tonic for the older kids like I feel like they're I feel like there should be more of a thing,

or maybe in schools where they get, like, teens to hang out with toddlers and stuff, because there's something about the purity of the exchange that just sort of neutralises some of that teenage angst that can be happening. Have you noticed that? A hundred percent. You know what, I've never actually thought of it like that, but a hundred percent, it's like, you can't be angry or whatever around a toddler

because they're just so much fun. They don't see any bad. Cree, for example, he just brings such good energy to the house, makes us all laugh, just simplifies everything, really, if that makes sense. And watching the kids, their bond is funny. I mean, he is a terrible two, and we're all just shocked at some of the things he does at the moment.

But at the same time, he kind of keeps you all young, doesn't he? He brings out that younger bit in the big kids as well, because they're all growing up. They're teenagers, you know. You know what you're like when it's a teenager. You think you're like so much. Tia's 12, going on like 30. She wants to be the same age as me,

but Cree kind of keeps us all young if you know what I mean definitely yeah because they're playful and irreverent and it's a bit like I mean I sort of like and hanging out with a sort of someone aged between two and four a little bit like hanging out with a drunk person like anything can happen next exactly range of emotions you never know I wanted to ask you a little bit about blended because obviously that's a huge part of your life, the community and the podcast. And when I started this podcast, I did it really quite selfishly

because for me, I think I'd always slightly, still was recalibrating and helping to, I don't know, feel less guilty about my relationship, my work, whilst also raising my family. And I wondered what it was you were looking for when you started blended you know I kind of felt I've never really known what I'm doing like what I want to do is that I think you know like as a kid you know my kids want to be footballers they want to

be a footballer I've never really known what I wanted to do I've had lots of jobs fallen into them I think blended was kind of the same this wasn't like a life plan I wanted to do. I've had lots of jobs, fallen into them. I think blended was kind of the same. This wasn't like a life plan. I didn't know that I was going to end up in a blended family and here I would be today. But it just kind of felt like right for me. And I just wanted to like release like some kind of emotion because I've had so much to say, but not really like a safe place to do it. And I feel like so many important conversations need to be had around blended families, but sometimes everything can get twisted.

So for me, it was just, it's kind of like therapy for me, I have to be honest. I meet so many amazing people and guests and it kind of helps me. It helps me like express how I'm feeling. When I meet other people, I feel less alone. I didn't really know what would happen with it. I set it up hoping it would be good and not really knowing if there'd be a need for it, if there's people that are really going to listen.

But it's really surprised me. It feels like kind of maybe I was brought into this situation to do this because I feel like it was kind of meant to be. Well, it's funny you say that because as soon as I saw you were doing that I was like that's absolutely brilliant and timely and I think you know as a stepchild myself I've often thought a lot about what it must have been like for my step parents when they met me and then the bonds that we forged and the bits where I feel like it went really well for us, and the bits that I think have been a bit trickier. And, you know, as it happens, my stepdad, John, who sadly died nearly three years ago, we were so close. And he definitely was like, you know, helped shape me, he had a hand in raising me. I feel like I'm who I am,

partly because John was one of my parents. So I think that that role sometimes can be a bit undefined, but that's actually what makes it have the potential to be something really special, because it is slightly other, and that's actually completely okay. Family can be made up of lots of that. I think that's really important. And it can be full of love and things that are really special. But I just know in my heart what it meant to me to have step-parents and how I think there are so many people out there

and having that community and the conversations that you're having is so vital. Especially because some of it can be awkward and people don't know how to articulate things. And I can see as well that you've put so much emphasis on wanting to say that what you might see online might look like perfection your brain fills in gaps doesn't it and says oh that looks like they've got it sorted but actually all the multitude of ways we're feeling and the bits where we feel that we're actually getting it a bit wrong or we've just had a bad day or something's not gone the way you

wanted it's really good to just lift the veil on that a little bit you must have had some really amazing conversations with people just casually as a result of it as well that's so it's so nice to hear you speak so lovely about your step that i love hearing people you know speak like that because i feel like there's been a real big gap and you don't you don't really hear much about step parents so being creating blended i just meet people down the street that tell me their stories. I was thinking that must happen to you a lot. It happens all the time and we're just like, wow. You just don't really realise the power of it. So I get to meet loads of amazing people.

I get to hear their stories. You get to feel less alone because we are all human. I think, you know, you can look at people on social media and think they've got it all together. We bloody haven't. It might look like it all together we bloody haven't it might look like it but we haven't so I feel some kind of power in sharing that you know I don't really know what I'm doing sometimes and I do make mistakes that makes me feel like I've got less

to live up to yeah as well definitely because it's quite a lot of pressure I don't know if you feel that sometimes like just social media and the pressure of looking good and being a great mum being a great step parent not making a mistake not doing you know it's just like whoa it's overwhelming sometimes definitely and also I think you know with you saying to people what you see might not be the whole story it's probably because sometimes all of us have looked at it and we've done that you maybe sometimes you've looked at things and thought oh they've got it sorted and it's actually it's actually,

it's good to remind yourself that's not the reality. We're so used to, you know, that's become part of our like, what we're consuming every day now, hasn't it? I sort of wake up and then I'll sort of check Instagram pretty much. Oh my God. I've got to be honest.

I stopped doing this for quite a while. So I made a conscious effort to not wake up and check Instagram. But I've fallen back into the habit maybe since, I think since I was on holiday a couple of weeks ago, you know, just a bit more relaxed. But I don't think it's healthy to wake up and click on that bloody Instagram thing.

Because the minute you get up, you think, oh, oh shit, someone's in the gym. I'm still in bed. Or you can't, it's like a natural, oh, she's had a green juice this morning. I've stopped my green juices. Shit, should I be having a green juice again? You know, like, and really, you start feeling bad for, like, most stupidest things.

So I need to remind myself that I'm not going to click on it first thing in the morning. Okay, I'm going to do the same. I think it helps you. I have, like, these manifesting cards that I have that I brush my teeth and I put them next to my sink. And I read them out every morning and they really help change my mindset so I've just got to not click on the Instagram before I get there I think yeah okay I'm gonna do the same let me know hey it's hard because it's like ingrained in us that you just wake up and click on it but I don't think it's too healthy

for us yeah and it's so true that thing when you said that's what made me giggle when you're saying about oh it's someone in the gym and I'll be like oh someone's doing a, and it's so true. That's what made me giggle when you were saying about, oh, it's someone in the gym, and I'll be like, oh, someone's doing a live, and it's like, oh, no, it's a bloody workout. I don't want to see that at, like, half six in the morning. Like, good for you. But you know I used to be that person. Like, since I'm pregnant, you know, I still work out.

I'm a bit slower on myself and just chilling. I'd be the one uploading at 6.30, and I think to myself, God, I must have annoyed a lot of people when they're getting up later. Because you can't help but compare yourself it's hard well for the record it doesn't annoy me I'm all just like that's great but that's just I'm still in my dressing gown so um but it's funny because I speak to a lot of women um about their you know their careers their work and some women have had they've had their the thing they've been doing since they were young so i don't know i've spoken to like

chefs let's say and they've been chefing since they were young and then they have their baby and then they just sort of scoop the baby along and then they continue doing their chef work but for you everything you're up to all all concentric circles have come out of the person you happen to fall in love with just over five years ago. I think that's pretty incredible, actually. Like, your whole world has changed. I mean, is that something you've thought about, about how defining it's been for everything you do? I haven't actually.

Sorry to interrupt you. I haven't actually thought about it like that, which is kind of crazy, isn't it? Because where would I be if I wasn't here right now? I've got no idea. Like I said, it is kind of like I do believe in like you've got a path and it's kind of there and you follow it. And I feel like maybe this path was just meant for me. And my whole life has completely changed.

Sometimes people, I went out, I don't go out often, by the way. I haven't been out in months. I went for dinner with my friends last night, and they're all telling me these stories. And I'm like, they're like, Kate, do you remember? And I'm like, no, I don't even know what you guys are talking about. Because I must have like, I feel like I've got a different life. Because my life changed so drastically over such a short period of time, I seem to have a bit of a block out of memory. I feel like my whole being has changed like I've completely had to change overnight and it's yeah it just changed me completely and did you always want to be a mum was that always something you thought would be part of your life I always wanted to be a mum I always wanted to have a big family because again I was

an only child just live with my mum and sometimes you know there wasn't much going on in the house so I've got that but I just didn't know it would come in this way. So it's a blessing. It's kind of like I must have prayed for it and it's come to me, but just not in the way that I thought it would have. Yeah, I mean, I think, I mean, that happens to us all in one way or another. It's funny, I've got this recurring idea in my head where I picture myself at secondary school and we're all at our desks

and then the teacher hands us all a sort of A4 envelope. And when you pull it out, it's basically a snapshot of your life at like 30. And it shows you like, and I imagine myself opening this thinking, who are all these like little redhead boys and who's that guy? And it's like, oh, that's your husband. Those are your children. And you're like, really? Because like the way you picture life when you're a kid is so different.

And sometimes there must be times when, you you're you're sat I don't know on the sofa all of you watching a film and you just look around the room and you're like whoa this is my family it's I think it's magical actually I really love the way that life does that for us it is mad isn't it you do you do just have those moments where you sit back and take it in and think wow and I think especially because my family have come to me in a, like, non-conventional way, I suppose, and I didn't give birth to them, I haven't been through that full journey with them, that sometimes I think, it's crazy how I'm actually here

and this is working and we've got these two new babies coming along and how, like, I just, it's crazy sometimes. Like, you know, it's kind of like what's that um sliding doors like if I hadn't have been on that beach at that particular time and met Rio where would we all be now I don't know yeah and I think I listened to an interview you did just before what was actually before you were even pregnant with Cree actually and you were talking about how the kids have been putting a little bit of pressure on you guys to have a baby and even leading up to I think the teenage boys saying is it going to be tonight do you think

maybe tonight you'll make a baby which actually really reminded me of when I was pregnant with my last one and I told the kids and one of them went oh right so you had SEX last night and I was like firstly your sense of how biology works is pretty off I need to work on that but the other one went why didn't you tell us you did that and I was like I don't think you want part of your childhood to be your dad and I telling you every time that's a possibility like it just that's that's not a great part of childhood but you were also talking about how you thought that a baby would bring you closer together as a family and I wondered if that's something you felt when you had Cree. By the way, that's so funny because teenagers are,

the things they ask you. If we could just have like a show of just quotes from kids that they say to their parents, sometimes it just takes you back and you don't know how to respond, do you? Oh, my God. Daily, I think that happens to me. But Cree has, you know, that must have been a couple of years ago now, so I was nervous about even prior to having Cree the arrival

and would it change the dynamic, what would it be like? But honestly, he's just brought, I couldn't have wished for it to be better. He's brought us all close together. Seeing the bond between the big kids and him is so special. I mean, I was so nervous that maybe they might not see each other as brothers. I mean, I knew they were deep down, but like you say, it's that little voice in the side of your head that's going, is it going to be okay?

Are everyone going to think they're siblings? They're siblings. They all love each other. He adores them. They adore him. And he's kind of like knitted us together a little bit i feel like yeah yeah i think i think when i had my so my mum and stepdad had my little brother jack which is when i was eight for me it was like it just sealed the association in my head that new babies are

just always a really positive thing it's always a happy thing the babies are always completely you know the innocence in it all but also it's like this sort of new chapter a new beginning and I think for families if that does happen it can just be this thing that kind of just all gives you this this new start that's how things are now the new dynamic yeah a hundred percent they bring so much happiness but don't get wrong that it has changed the dynamic because everything obviously was... Lorenz, Tate and Tia are of a similar age. They can kind of do all the same activities together and that all flowed quite easily.

Whereas with Cree and now the new baby, there's such a big age gap. So Cree's two and a half, two. God, I don't know how old is he. Two and a bit. And then Tia has just turned 12. So there's 10 years between them. And then Lorenz is the oldest.

He's just turned 16, so there's like 14 years. So it's very difficult to find things now that everyone's happy with because it's hard. The things that Cree wants to do, the big kids can't do. So I do find that sometimes I get really bad guilt about that. Naturally, Cree takes up more of my time because he's two.

As in, he's hands-on. He needs full-blown attention. He doesn't just go and sit in his room and have a chill-out like teenagers. But I really have to think carefully and manage so that I feel like everyone's feeling okay. But naturally, he gets dragged along to do something that he doesn't want to do,

and they get dragged along to soft play, something they don't want to do sometimes. But I think that's just part of having kids with such a big age gap. Yeah, and actually, there's 14 years between my oldest and my youngest, and I think the biggest one that I always feel guilty about is actually, it's so stupid, but it's board games. Like, none of my older kids can play any board games because I've never been able to get the board game out

with all the pieces before the youngest will just completely destroy it. So I always feel really guilty. They don't know how to play Cluedo or Scrabble or, you know, Monopoly. They'd just be like, ooh, houses. So what do you do? What activities do you do as a family? Can you do that? The only thing I can do is go for a walk

where everyone can go to the park and go for a walk and he, crew, will run off on his bike, we'll all chat and that's okay. But down to actual activities without being separated is quite difficult. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. It is quite tricky. I think the best way I've found around it

is to sort of have it where everybody has got slightly their own version of what you're up to. And now that my eldest is nearly, he's going to be 19 this week, actually, then it's all about, like I went on holiday last week with my mum to Whitstable and I only took the little three and I left the two teens at home

because I was like, they're going to be bored. So I think it's like a bit of sort of divide and conquer sometimes because actually you do have different wants and you have to make sure everybody feels like they've got the thing that works for them I suppose yeah I mean it must be something that every family finds when they've got that big gap age gap and age spread but I don't really know I'm trying to think of anything other than a walk or like open space and I can't really think of much festivals are pretty good I can recommend festivals

because there's often stuff that the little ones can do and the big kids can have a little bit more freedom but you'll all end up doing things together too so yeah basically everything leads to like wide open spaces basically just chuck them in a field basically fields is it so that's going to be your next decade

no but i think um they do kind of feel and i know what you mean about feeling guilty because i think i always feel like with my kids they didn't choose to be part of such a big family that's something that i've kind of encouraged but actually however the cards fall there's always positives and negatives on on every side isn't there with your family it can't be all the stuff you want all the time that's just not not how it works yeah and there's so much joy with the young ones they like for example Cree he brings so much joy and happiness like daily happiness and laughs to the house because he's just funny but then at the weekends it is a bit annoying when they want to go shopping and he's smashing all the stuff off the side in Zara and

I'm like we can't go shopping with a toddler so there's pros and cons I suppose and you do have to leave some of the kids behind sometimes that sometimes it's right Korea's getting looked after today and I'm going to actually do something with the big kids because they need it and it just has to be like that sometimes that is exactly what I do and I'm sure you know your the things you've been doing at blended you get asked a lot of times about what your advice is for being a step parent but before we talk about I wanted to know what's the best bit of advice that you've got or maybe your favorite bit of advice in your book oh shit if I flummoxed you you put me on the spot there doesn't have to be one thing it could

be something general but I just I bet there's been a few things that have really popped out that have come through those conversations and that book that's that might be something that's helped you a little bit you know what I feel like I'm so fortunate I meet so many people so many experts and like specialists in their fields that give me so many great tips um it's hard to pinpoint one but I think mainly it's probably just look after yourself don't be hard on yourself because as a parent you're hard on yourself and as a step parent I think there's just a little bit for me personally anyway I'm even tougher on myself and it's just about taking the edge off of that making a little bit of time for yourself and that's saying that you can't pour from an empty cup

and I think when I first become a step parent I thought I could I thought I could do everything and I felt like I was selfish when I needed time for myself away from my kids whereas now I've realized from all the people I speak to you have have to have that. You have to be you. And it's not selfish because you come back, you know, revitalised and ready for whatever's to come in the family. So I think it's more about just making that time for you, I would say, that I've found most useful for my life. Yeah, I think that's really, really good advice.

And, you know, the thing is no one ever gives you a medal if you haven't done that for yourself at the end of the year actually like that kind of sort of feeling like you've almost martyred yourself to to that it's no one actually appreciates that and actually it's quite easy for you to feel a bit diminished and like the edges of yourself have been knocked off if you haven't given yourself anything that's just for yourself so I think that that being that little tiny bit selfish in that way is actually it it's good for everybody, actually. Yeah, it is, because no one likes a stroppy, moany parent, do they? And I mean, sometimes you just need a minute. And the kids, I remember not longer, I think I was going to the spa,

like, I don't know, and I was going for one day and Tia said to me, why don't you go for longer? And I was like, oh God god I really need a break I must have been being really um shouty why don't you go for longer it's funny isn't it so you just need a break sometimes yeah definitely even if it's 15 minutes where you just think you know what I'm walking around the block just to have 15 minutes yeah yeah no I know I think that headspace is pretty darn vital actually yeah and um I think I read something you'd said once where you said that somebody'd recommend it just lying on the floor for a few minutes as well as a way I mean it's a bit like a sort of toddler move that's

what they would do as well it's quite instinctive maybe just like splat it's actually amazing how by the way I do that all the time but how much energy that releases just to lay on your back on the floor and not really think of anything for like a couple of minutes actually really helps but you do look a bit crazy if someone walks in the room you're just like i need a minute i'm just lying on the floor but it does work no i'm definitely going to try it i did wonder are there things i mean what's it like when your kids childhood is quite different to your own are there things that are quite similar in their childhood to yours, do you think? Are there elements you wanted to bring in or is it something where you really feel like you've written your own map?

I mean, is it similar? I think it's not, you know, it's so different, I think. Did you say you're an only child? I was from my mum and dad, yeah. So I didn't have a sibling until I was eight. So yeah, I had that bit, which actually was really defining, particularly the years when it was just my mum and I. I'd see my dad every other weekend,

but I had about three or four years where it was just my mum and I living together. And I think that was quite, it does kind of shape, it definitely shaped our relationship, actually. Yeah, I think it's quite different you know there is big differences obviously oh it's hard that's a hard question I'm not sure I try to Rio and I both try to bring in certain things you know that we've learned from our childhood or things that we didn't love that we want to change and implement that in our

kids but I don't see too many similarities to be honest with you yeah no I know well I think in some ways maybe you know when you meet someone and you fall for them you don't know what it is you're going to be getting involved with their life anyway and maybe sometimes that thing of completely like clean slate like for example with my stepdad he didn't even know any kids I was like pretty much the first child he'd ever like sat with so it kind of meant that we just worked it out for ourselves and I think there was a lot of that actually was really beneficial to us because it meant there wasn't anything we were trying to follow his dad had died before he was even a teenager so all of that was like new and we

could just define our own way and I think there's sometimes some some good things that come along with that with having your own way of doing things yeah I suppose that's it like we like I said at the beginning I didn't really have like anyone to like look up to in the public or where to turn I didn't really know where to go for advice so it means that we're all just kind of learning on the job and had to talk about how we felt and figure it out, which I think is probably the best way because you're all in it. It's not like just Ria and I making decisions. We're in this as a family and we're kind of doing it all together. But although saying that, it would have been helpful

to have just a little something, to have a little bit of reassurance that you're not getting it wrong or, you know, you're going to be okay. Because in those early days, I did think, is it going to be okay? Like, it was just, it was really tough. So that's why I'm hoping this book will just be a little bit of reassurance for some people that are having that kind of mindset. Yeah, I think it's going to be more than a little bit of reassurance. I think that whole thing of knowing that you're not alone

and having other people who've been through stuff, I think it's huge, actually. And we've got so much better nowurance I think that whole thing of knowing that you're not alone and having other people who've been through stuff I think it's huge actually and we've got so much better now I think at being transparent about things that are challenging awkward tricky where you can find that community it's kind of become such a happy resource I think that you can tip into that and go oh look there's other people it's not identical but I really resonate with all those things they've just described that really makes sense to me I love it and that's why I love listening to those people's podcasts and you know like having chats like this because they just it's just about not feeling alone isn't it helps you so much definitely definitely it's funny because I often ask people what was going on in their life when they first became a parent, but I wonder if for you it's almost got several answers to that. Because when you think back to that time when you first met the kids, I guess then you were still at the time doing TOWIE. Does that feel like another lifetime ago now?

that feels like a whole different person that sometimes I struggle to even remember back then. Yeah, I was still on TOWIE and my life was polar opposite to what it is now. Yeah, I wasn't prepared to have children. I was kind of doing my own thing. I was on a reality TV show, lots of drama drama just going with the flow of life and seeing what will happen really knowing that I didn't really want to be on it forever but not really knowing what my next step was like I said previously like I don't really didn't really know what I wanted to do but you know just going with the flow so it was a bit of a shock to the system becoming a step parent but it kind of saved me as well I always say that like I feel like we all kind of saved me as well. I always say that. I feel like we all kind of saved each other.

So that's special. Can you talk a bit more about that? What do you mean it saved you? That sounds really amazing. That's a lovely thing to say. I feel like I was kind of... I didn't really know what I was doing. I don't know, it just...

How do I explain that? I feel like Rio and I say we saved each other because he was having a really difficult time. He's lost his wife. He lost his mum shortly after I met him. You know, he was going through a lot. And I was also in this world. I was on a reality show with my ex-partner.

And I was kind of in this, like, turbulent kind of world that you end up in for drama that didn't really feel safe. And then we came together and we kind of created for that you ended up in for drama that didn't really feel safe and then we came together and we kind of created this new world and we kind of saved each other if that makes sense like we started a new beginning which we all really needed yeah and it sounds like maybe if you're saying it was a bit turbulent then and maybe feeling a bit aimless like not quite sure but now you feel like with blended and the book and everything that's up there you've you mean you almost describe it like a vocation like you found the thing you feel like you were

supposed to be doing yeah yeah and it's really funny because at the beginning even of being a step-mom I didn't realize that we'd get here now and I'd be doing all of this um but it's just funny how things work out when you think of it isn't it yeah definitely and also you were young like you're only in your 20s that's a lot to be not every 20 something is dealing with those things but I think every time I've listened to you talk I just it really makes my heart happy when I hear you talk about your children and I think it's really it's not something to take lightly how you refer to your stepchildren as your children because that's not a given that is not how everybody feels

or how everybody takes on that role and of course no parent ever wants to think about the idea of someone else parenting their kids if they weren't here but I do know that if it was ever the case I would want someone who speaks about my kids the way you speak about your kids

you're going to make me cry do you know what is thank you and it is hard because I know that some people see me speaking like that and think but they're not her children and we've had so many conversations in the house about this and you know I know that I'm that they're not my I'm not their mum I think that's what we say I'm not their mum. They've got a mum who unfortunately isn't here. But all of them are my children. And we've spoken, we all feel comfortable with that. I think it's kind of hard to grasp that. And sometimes from the outside,

people think that may be disrespectful, but that's just how it works in our house. Yeah, and I also think in the nicest possible way, I don't think you owe anyone else an explanation because when it comes down to it, when those four walls are around you and you're with your family, that is what it is. I don't think people need to know.

Like, if they're going to get bogged down in words, that's really just semantics because actually you calling them your children is actually a show of the bond that you have and that nurture, that maternal you know figurative arms around them that's to me how I take that I don't think that's to do with anything else but also if people don't get that we don't need to necessarily explain how our families work to other people because they're not there ultimately they don't go home to it only you do it's true and I

need to take that mindset more often sometimes because I do sometimes get caught up thinking how it might seem. I think it's much more harmful for me to say, I don't feel this, I feel like they're all my children, but it would be much more harmful for me to say, well, here's my kids, but them three over there aren't. What would that do to a child? Exactly. No, I know. And especially because, you know, the kids are always the innocent in it all.

And actually, what does every kid want from their childhood? To be seen, to feel heard, to feel loved and safe. That's like the big, broad brushstrokes of what we're hoping to put around them. And through that, you create these people who've got, like, that extra thing in their core of, like, I had that, I still have that, I can always go back to that. It's kind of everything, I think.

It really is, isn't it? It just completely shapes who you are, who you become, like everything. Yeah, and it's an ongoing thing. It evolves. And I think the other thing I've been thinking about while I was thinking about you and the older kids, I think we always think, we tend to think of parenting all about that kind of early years bit and how well you cope with having a newborn

and having a toddler and a fiver and all that. But actually parenting doesn't stop. And there's bits that I feel I'm better at when they get older. And that doesn't mean I'm a worse parent because I was not so good when they were like 18 months and chewing on, you know, building blocks in the playroom. I think it's actually, I like the fact that I feel like I can be quite, you know, a better mum in some ways when they get older I think we kind of like overlook that stage

of parenting sometimes oh yeah I think gosh having like you've got the same such a range of kids it's so the parenting is so different yeah for each age you know like with Cree I find I love him dearly I find it quite difficult it's really hands-on all the time. He doesn't understand what I'm saying or asking him to do. And it's like, love him, but it's draining at times. I mean, it's still draining with the big kids at times when they're having their little tantrums. But I like to be able to communicate,

and I enjoy that stage of talking to them and understanding them and seeing who they are come out. I think I prefer the kind of, when you get to the stage where you're able to really communicate and see their personalities coming through. And all that kind of work that you've put in and the parents have put in, you can see them turn into little adults. It's quite a nice feeling. Yeah, it's lovely and it's interesting

because they can have such unique perspectives on things. And you're like, oh, you're completely your own person. That you just came up with that all by yourself. And I think that's really exciting. You can have some really good conversations and also some really stressful, annoying ones as well. Definitely. Well, I guess you're in the home stretch now with your baby. And I wish you all the best with your with

your new baby and also of course with your books and keep doing what you're doing Kate I think everything you're doing with blended is absolutely brilliant I love it and it really speaks to me actually it resonates so thank you for that oh thank you so much it's been lovely talking to you and that all means so much so thank you thank you thank you come on sorry i'm still in the garden so isn't wasn't kate lovely such a nice woman so warm and i just love the emphasis she put on the kids when it came to coming into a relationship where the guy she fell in love with happened to have a family it's just such a precious thing to see those come on then i'll push you on the swing that's very muddy sorry about that in the meantime so guess what we're in our episode 99 next week is

episode 100 so i wanted to kind of end with a bit of a, you know, grand finale, 100th episode. And let me tell you, I have delivered. That was Mickey kicking the iPad out of my hands with his feet while I was talking to you. That was funny, wasn't it, Mickey? Yes, next week's guest is a lady called Julia Hart. She has a Netflix documentary series, reality show, My Unorthodox Life. Her story is fascinating. Can't wait for you to listen to that. And in the meantime, I'm pushing a swing. I've got another four hours, three hours at home before I have to

leave again. Hopefully my children will remember my face. I'm back on sunday night it's not too bad really they've got lovely plans for the weekend i kind of made sure they're not going to italy this weekend you nuggets no we're going to we will in the summer holidays mickey be careful with your feet you're about to bash them oh my god he's swinging in a really weird way why sorry mickey sorry Meggie sorry alright anyway have a lovely week you thank you for joining me again thank you to Ella May for the artwork Richard for editing Claire for producing

you for listening Kate for chatting to me and thanks to my kids for not making oh I'm not going inside I'm just walking over here so I don't kick the iPad again. All right. I'm not going inside. I'm just walking over here. Boys, say bye to the person listening to Spinning Plates. Bye. I'll see you next week. Thank you. you