Stuff You Should Know - All About Alligators

Episode Date: September 30, 2021

Here at SYSK, we love alligators? Why? Because they're basically living dinosaurs. Dive in (metaphorically) and swim with these beasts today! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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believe. You can find in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Couldn't come up with a jokie nickname. Jerry's here too everybody and this is Stuff You Should Know.

That's not a north edition. So after researching alligators and looking at a lot of videos of alligators. You're an expert on alligators. I'm an expert. No, I'd seen plenty of alligator footage and things and I never really just sat and really, really watched them for long. And once you do that, you cannot help but just think, what era am I living in here to be watching this weird, crazy looking dinosaur dragon beast walking along? Okay. Like you got to see him walk. Like seeing him swimming around, that's great.

But when you see them walking around with their bellies off the ground, it looks crazy. Yeah, especially if you have the theme to the Alfred Hitchcock show playing alongside of it, it works really well. They look crazy. It looks like it doesn't look like something that should be walking along on today's earth. Did you know that the theme from the Alfred Hitchcock show is called the March of the Marionettes? I didn't know that. It is.

All right. How does it go? Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do. Good evening. Yes. It's so nice. Very nice. Can you see, you can't sing. Have you seen an alligator in real life in the wild?

Yeah, sure. I talked about it at one point. It was when I did my oki finoki swamp paddle. That's right. Yes. Yeah. And we woke up in the morning on our camping pad that they just have stationed periodically along the canoe trail. Well, now we know those things must be at least five feet above the water, right? Well, I tell you, I don't know if it was or not, but now that I've read this,

that they can jump out of the water that high, I think it's just not something they often do. But, you know, we woke up surrounded by alligators growling at us or groaning or whatever they're doing. It's just sort of a... Yeah, that was a great alligating, Chuck. Are you sure they were alligators and not crocodiles? I'm almost 100% sure, and I have a little bit of statistics to back that up. Even though the Okefenokee is not Florida, I think there are about... Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, it wouldn't have been crocodiles. About 10... I'm sorry, 5 million American alligators, 1.25 million in Florida,

whereas Florida only has about 100 crocodiles. I'm sorry, 1,000... Geez, I get this all wrong. 1.25 million alligators in Florida, 1,000 crocodiles. Wow. And that's the only place on earth where crocodiles and alligators live in the same place. Yeah, down in the Everglades. Yeah, the Everglades are just like, whatever, man, bring it. And it's not Nile crocodiles. There's a specific kind of crocodile called the American crocodile, just like there's the American alligator. It just sounds like...

Yeah, put the eyes on. The... Is that a crocodile or an alligator? I think it's an alligator. I think it's a gator. Is it a gator? I remember that poster from the 80s that said, like, save an alligator, eat a preppy. That's right. What does your tattoo say? Oh, wait, wrong one. It clearly has the rounded snout.

We'll get to the difference between them. This is mainly about alligators, though, as these like... I just call them almost dinosaurs. Yeah, you're amazed by that. It came through in the article you put together. Yeah, it's amazing. Or dragons. Like, whenever you see a close-up of a dragon, they have that same sort of scale male armoring. Chuck, you realize that dragons are made up by humans who've probably seen alligators, right? Exactly. I think we probably talked about that in our dragons episode. Surely we did.

But let's talk about gators, huh? Yeah, we are talking gators. And they... Like, I live among them. Like, there's one just outside of my condo and the ponds that we have here. And you see them a lot around here. You just have to be on your guard, just knowing when you're walking a little Momo around, not to walk alongside bushes you can't see through and just stuff like that. Don't walk her around a pond. You just have to be a little extra smart, and they generally tend to leave you alone, right? Yeah, stick to inner city parking lots.

Exactly. That's the only place she's allowed to be. I put her in the car, drive into the city, let her out, and put her back in. So, like, they're fascinating in and of themselves. It never ceases to amaze me to look at an alligator, but I've had no idea how amazing they actually are. And one of the things that you put down there was that they have intensely small brains. Like, the average alligator is many feet long, 10, 9 to 11 feet long, probably on average, often quite longer, but that their brain is only like eight or nine grams. And in this How Stuff Works article, it says it would take up one half of a tablespoon.

So, it's a really small brain. And on the one hand, that means that, like, if you had an alligator as a pet, which is a terrible idea, it's a terrible, terrible idea, like that alligator is never going to come to love you or to... There's never going to be a point where you can let your guard down and relax because this alligator is not going to eat you. The alligator would eat you like the first moment it occurred to it to eat you, right? Yeah, probably. So, they're killing machines in that sense. They're like mindless killing machines. But at the same time, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that they are

way smarter than they should be for having a brain the size of half of a tablespoon. They can do things like climb chain link fences. Do you ever see a video of that? Thankfully, no. I don't need to see that. It's terrifying. They can climb trees. They have been shown to be able to figure out how to escape enclosures, like not randomly either, like looking for ways out and can actually like manipulate vents and stuff like that. And somebody found that they use tools and that they will put sticks on their snouts, like they'll gather sticks on their snouts. On their snouts? Yeah. To attract migratory birds who might be nesting,

so that they might come to grab a stick and then the alligator gets them. That's way smarter than you would think for something that has a brain the size of a half of a tablespoon. Yeah, some of this came from the House of Works article I believe written by House of Works founder, Marshall Brain. Oh boy. Been a while since I read one of those, but he called them Instinctual Living Machines, which I think is a great band name, but what he basically means is if an alligator is hungry, it's going to eat something, period. Like that's all, it's sort of like the description of the Great White Shark in Jaws, like all it does is swim and eat. Like an alligator basically just wants to eat and hang around.

They are reptiles, members of the Crocodile order of which there are 23 different species, including those crocodiles of different stripes and sizes and caimans, which we're not really going to talk about much in here. No. The poor caiman never gets any of the press. I know. It's like what the heck guys? But the Crocodile, as we know it in that body form, it has been around for more than 180 million years, which you got that big head, you got that big lizard-like body, you got those little stubby legs, and when they bring that belly off the ground to walk on them, it looks super creepy, and they got that big, long tail that looks like it was just made for whacking things.

Yes, and the tail keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger as the gator grows, and it might not, usually I think it tops out at maturity. I think when they reach sexual maturity is about the time they stop growing. They used to think that the alligator would just grow indefinitely as it aged. Like a goldfish. Yes, but now there's a top size for it, they realize. But the tail might not keep getting longer, but it can keep getting fatter because that's where the gator stores its fat, its fat reserves. Any excess energy gets stored in its tail, which is one of the things that makes gator tail so ridiculously delicious if you're into that kind of thing. Yeah, and you mentioned they can grow on average about 11 feet. That's if they're

male, five to 700 pounds. The ladies are a little shorter, they're about eight feet long and weigh about half as much, but there was one that I looked up, I think it's still alive. If the Alligator Adventures Gator Park in Myrtle Beach is they're at least not advertising that Utan has passed away. Yeah, he looked like he was still there based on their website. I think so, unless you're just like, don't tell anyone Utan died, you know, we're just trying to get people in the door. They just have an intern wearing Utan skin. Well, Utan, my friends, was born in 1964 and is just over 18 feet long and weighs 2,000 pounds. And if you want to see something that looks like it, it's CGI'd from a movie, just go look at Utan and how big this thing is and watch

the people in the cage with Utan feeding it those skin rabbits. Wow. I mean, they're in there in Utan, I guess, as the deal is, as long as you're feeding Utan, you can do this show. And I guess we should go ahead and tell people, and I mean, now's a good time to say that they don't eat that much for as big as they are. It's very surprising how little an alligator needs to eat to survive. I think they feed this thing a rabbit, you know, it's got to be in bite-sized chunks. They can't, you know, it's not like a python that can swallow these, eat these big things whole. Although it did see a video of a python eating an alligator, which was remarkable. Wow. It was a small alligator, but it was a big python, you know what I'm saying? Sure. Oh,

I know what you're saying. You know what I'm laying down? What was I saying though? You were saying that it bites, they like bite-sized. Oh, they don't need, yeah, they don't need to eat that much compared to their size, and they can go a long time without eating because of those fat stores. Right. And when a long time, like you mean a long time, like a week usually in between feedings in the wild, right? Yeah, but if the S is hitting the fan for some reason, alligators can shut it down for a year or two. I know, that's like using up a lot of fat, but they have some skinny little tails. Yeah, probably. When they're by the end of a year, but a week in the wild too. One thing I didn't see though was exactly how

much it takes to fill them up, like how much percentage of their body weight do they eat? Like is a rabbit enough for a week or is that like once a day kind of thing? I bet it's a daily thing just because I think they probably try and do a little feeding show every day would be my guess. Right, yeah. So one of the things that a lot of people might not realize because they're so often associated with coastal areas is that alligators are freshwater. Did you know that? I did. Okay, well good. Sure, of course, they're not in the ocean. Surely there's somebody out there who fits the bill with what I just described. They're like, what? I thought they were brackish. Yeah. But they are freshwater and one of the things about Florida is if there's like a

something larger than a ephemeral puddle, there's probably an alligator in there. Yes, any body of water, they will inhabit a pond, a lake, a river, a stream, a canal, an irrigation ditch, a drainage ditch, whatever. As long as there's fresh water available, they will hang out there and even when it dries up, they'll dig what are called alligator dens. That is basically a burrow back down into the water table and that when some of these like more ephemeral wetlands kind of dry up, the alligator den might be the only place in the area that has water. And then when the alligator leaves, they're leaving that water behind, that water filled hole behind. And then when that dries up, it provides a burrow for other

animals, that burrow as well. So in that reason, they're considered a keystone species in their ecosystem. Oh, it's just about to ask. Are they keystone? They're so keystone, dude. It's like they have t-shirts that say keystone species. All right, let's take a little break. I'm all worked up and I'm all over the place. So I'll refocus and we'll be back right after this. the road. Okay, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh, God. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so my husband, Michael. Um,

hey, that's me. Yeah, we know that Michael and a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life step by step. Oh, not another one. Kids relationships life in general can get messy. You may be thinking this is the story of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never ever have to say bye bye bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikular and to be honest, I don't believe in astrology, but from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life in India. It's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get second hand astrology. And lately, I've been

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Okay, so I did mention, by the way, I should just point out since I mentioned Utan's age of 57 years old, born in 64, that's in captivity. I think they can live a long time, but more like 40-ish years in the wild. So 57 is, that's really on the high side. Utan is doing quite well in captivity, but I imagine Utan is toward in the twilight years. Yeah, I've seen though, like a couple of, I saw a couple of articles that said some alligator was captured based on, and that was estimated to be about 100 years old. So I don't think it is necessarily like just ridiculously unheard of, but I saw on Smithsonian Zoo, I believe they're pretty legit. They said 50 is usually around the average, I think, for a wild alligator.

Probably a lot of that is humans cutting that average down, I would guess. Yeah. Yeah, we'll talk about poaching in a minute. That's definitely an issue. Should we talk about the armor plating? Yes, I think we should. This stuff is cool. And what made me kind of think of this to begin with was watching that dumb show I talked about before Alone Beast, where they drop you off and give you a dead animal and no tools. And in the Bayou, they gave people alligators and people had to figure out how to cut into this alligator without knives. And, you know, they do the same for these, for mammals on other episodes, but the alligator was a particular challenge

because of this armor plating that they have, which is just really super tough to get into. Yeah, that's called osteoderms or scoots. I prefer osteoderms, don't you? I'm a scooter. Okay. But that's one reason why it's really hard to kill an alligator, especially as far as hunting alligators goes, the state of Florida in particular really ties your hands with what you can use. And it really gives the alligators like a fighting chance. And they literally tie your hands. They do. They push you into the water with a bunch of gators and say, you shouldn't be hunting.

So they literally do have that kind of like the bony plates underneath their skin, which does make them pretty tough. But despite being weighed down by what amounts to like plate male armor, they're surprisingly fast. And we did this, we did an episode years and years ago. Do you remember? Whether you should run in a zigzag pattern. And the answer to that is absolutely not. Don't do that because the alligator will probably catch you because it's going to run straight because it's going to be smarter than you in that moment. But they can top out at about like 11 miles an hour on land. Yeah. And that's, you know, if you're just a regular human, you may be able to run that fast at top speed for a little while at your sprint. And, you know,

alligators are mainly that's their, you know, they don't have a ton of stamina, but they can get after you really fast. And if you've ever seen a video of them coming out of the water to get something unsuspecting creature on the shore, you know how fast they can be. It did crack me up in this article, how they were talking about, you know, that they don't have much stamina because of the way their respiration works. And like, if you need to just, all you have to do is just outrun an alligator for like 30 minutes and they'll tire out. Right. And that's 30 minutes. Yeah, that seems like a lot of, that's a lot. I would tire out. I know. The alligator just laugh and laugh as it swam away like sucker. Five more minutes, I would have been tired out,

but you only made it to 25 minutes. That's right. So one of the other things is, we said that they're freshwater, right? And not salty. That's because they lack a salt gland, which is something things like sharks and shorebirds have their glands that actually excrete excess salt from the body. Alligators don't have that. That's why they prefer freshwater, but they can hang out in water as long as it's freshwater. And they have a lot of cool adaptations. Remember their reptiles, they're not amphibians. They're lizards basically that can hang out in the water, which makes them pretty interesting in and of themselves. One of the things that they have are, um, nictitating membranes over their eyelids, which are just these clear second eyelids.

They have regular eyelids like we do. But underneath those, they have ones that come over as like a clear film that cover their eyes so that they can see underwater. Yeah, it's almost like a contact lens goggle hybrid. Yeah. So I call it. And yeah. And it functions exactly as that. They can see really well underwater. And I think they go back to front instead of just the regular top to bottom eyelids that they have. Yeah. That's pretty neat. And the other cool thing is when they do get underwater, they can, they close up all their holes, all their orifices. They have flaps on the ears. Are you laughing at that? They have flaps that close on their ears and their nostrils. They have those inner eyelids already closing. And then they have a flap called the palatal valve

or palatal valve probably. That's what I had in my head that closes at the back of the throat. And that's going to keep water out of the stomachs and the lung, the stomachs, like there's more than one, the stomach and the lungs. And so when they dive, there's no water getting in anywhere and they can stay down there for 10 or 20 minutes on a regular dive or if there is some weird reason, some threat that they have to stay under for a couple of hours and just really rest and chill out, they can do that too. Yeah. And that palatal valve too means that they can open their mouths without water getting into their lungs, which means they can carry their prey underwater. They can bite still and manipulate things using their mouth underwater without drowning,

which is a big advantage, as we'll see, because we're talking now, Chuck, about the alligator diet. And here's where it gets gnarly. Yeah. It's the creepiest style of feeding, I think. They are lurkers. Yeah. They're not hunters. They're not gatherers. They're lurkers. Yeah. They're sort of like ticks. They wait for something to come close enough for them to get it basically. They stay very still. They just got those little eyeballs over the water. Maybe they're nostrils that they want to breathe a little bit. It's so creepy when you notice one that you hadn't noticed before. Yeah. And they're so still. And they're looking at you. Yeah. Well, that's why when at Okie Pinocchio, we heard the growling and I was like,

WTF is going on. Right. Because it's not like you look up and there's a bunch of alligators having coffee on top of the water. You had to look and I was like, oh my god, they're everywhere. It's very chilling. Your fingers going to your mouth like, oh my god. They don't have really sharp teeth though. I mean, those teeth look super scary. Their teeth actually aren't even very sharp. No. They look really gnarly in their mouth, but they're more for crushing like because they need to be able to break bone and like break a big sea turtle shell. Yeah. And they can too. Oh yeah. They've got some really strong jaws. Their jaws have been shown to be about three to exert about 3,000, 3,000, like 2,900 PSI,

which I think makes them the sixth strongest bite on earth. Wow. And crocodiles have them beat by about 800 PSI. Oh, wow. Yeah. Crocodiles are number one. They have the strongest bite. And for reference, if you're not down with PSI, like you can't just immediately imagine what you're talking about when you hear 3,000 PSI, lions and tigers, adult lions and tigers typically have bites of around 1,000 PSI. Yeah. So gators and crocodiles are mucho macho when it comes to bite strength, I guess, is how you'd put it if you were insane. Yeah. At one point in time, we did an episode on the worst ways to die. Is there a worst way to die about 100 years ago? And I don't think this was included, but I would have to put it on the list because when an alligator

gets a hold of you, its goal is to drag you into the water and drown you as you're getting essentially, you know, have the most, you know, 2,900 pounds of pressure per square inch put down on your body as your bones and ribs are snack or snacking. They're snapping. You're being snacked. Almost going to be snacking. You're the snacky, the gators snack. So that's what they do. They drown you and crush you basically. Yeah. And close that, you know, close that flap so they're not drowning again. Right. And then eventually, they'll tear you up into bite-sized chunks because they can't, like I said, they can't, like, I get the feeling when this guy was feeding it, the rabbit, that was sort of a max size. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. They want, like you said, bite

size for a gator. I guess that's about the size of a rabbit. They want bite-sized chunks because they swallow everything whole and they just digest it too. They digest everything they eat, including bone. But if they happen to catch prey, and we should say here, like, yes, that would be a terrible way to die. Very unlikely. If you look at an alligator, you would think, they must kill people like every day. No, no. Apparently, it's vanishingly rare that somebody, like you are about 56 times more likely to die of a hornet wasp or bee sting in the United States than you are of an alligator attack. I think they get about one person a year. And unfortunately, that person is usually under age 12 because they basically attack based on size. They size up prey.

So it's a big news story, of course. It is. So it's very unlikely that that would happen. But yes, it would suck terribly. But more likely, if you are a deer or like a warthog or some other, like a larger animal in Florida that might wander too close to the banks of a pond and you're caught by a gator, that gator is going to take you and stash you under a log, as you were saying. And it's going to just leave you there for a few days, a week, maybe, and basically let you ripen so that it's easier to tear bite-sized chunks of your rotting flesh off from underwater. Yeah, with those dull teeth. And then they have to bring you up to the surface to to toss you into the air and eat you because they have to open that palatal valve.

Man. There's one other thing about gators eating, we should say, is that they use what's called twist feeding or more commonly known as the death roll, where they just basically spin on the axis. I'm not sure if that would be yaw control or what, but they spin around lengthwise in the water. And it's weird what they're doing. I thought it was just for drowning, but actually what they're doing is they're actually, it's like a type of biomechanical manipulation where they're actually trying to pull you apart. It's a way of just pulling you apart. And there's this video of a dude at some like sea life, I guess an aquarium or something like that, some demonstration or show where he's showing how he can stick his hand in

this gator's mouth, maybe a crocodile. And of course the alligator or crocodile clamps down on his arm and catches him really well and immediately starts doing a death roll. And you can see the way that guy's arm twists. He had to roll with it. This guy suddenly rolled like he was hoist Gracie and was grappling all of a sudden with this alligator. But when he wasn't able to roll as fast, you could see the direction that his arm was going that the alligator or crocodile was about to just twist it clean off just from this twist feeding it was doing. So it's pretty ingenious and clever way to break something into bite-sized chunks, but that's why they do that death roll is to literally tear you apart so that they can eat

you more efficiently. You got to do a Steve Winwood. You got to roll with it, baby. That's right. Or in excess and be like, never tear us apart. Oh, wow. Did you have that planned? No. How could I possibly have planned that? I don't know. Oh man, RIP Michael Hutchins. I know. I thought it was from earlier when I texted you just get ready for the Steve Winwood joke. And I said, I've got my own LOL. And here's the thing with that. The freshwater like launching off the from the water to the shore thing is that we've all seen the videos of the animals that are just like, oh, like I have to drink. It presents a real conundrum for mammals or anything really on shore that's like, I've got to get some of that water. Like I need it to live.

And like you look around, you look around your warthog or a javelina. And you're like, I don't see anything. I don't even see those eyeballs. And you sneak down to that shore and two feet in front of them, there's an alligator there waiting. Yep. And then that's it for the javelina unless he can run away quickly, which as we've seen, that's possible. Oh, those javelinas can truck. And I could see that javelina still continuing to run like a mile after that alligator gave up. Can't you? Oh yeah. So Chuck, because they are so just vicious when they're eating and that they're eating machines, killing machines in a lot of ways, like it's not really easy for most humans to sympathize with alligators. They got a bad rap for a very long time. And

people used to kill them especially, I don't know if we said their range goes from about North Carolina down to Texas along the southeastern United States. That's where you're going to find the American alligator. Yeah. And then in China, not for the American, but they have alligators in China. Yes. The Chinese alligator, it's much smaller. It goes to about five feet and it is critically endangered now. You can only find it on the lower Yangtzee. But now American alligators are doing so well that I saw they're starting to show up in Tennessee. Oh, really? Yes. They have extended their range to include Tennessee, which is nuts because it gets cold in Tennessee. Well, we'll talk about later how they adapted to that. But because they are these killing vicious machines,

some of the early Europeans who lived in the southeastern United States first showed up there. They would kill alligators mostly as like a matter of course, like you see an alligator, you don't want anywhere near your cattle or your livestock, so you'd kill the alligator. And that was about that. It wasn't a huge problem for the alligators because there were so many alligators, way more than there are now. But then as more and more people came along and human civilization encroached further and further onto alligators land, there were more and more encounters, there were more and more gruesome discoveries when you called in the cattle from pasture, and more and more alligators started getting killed. But then it was the French. It was

Les Français that really brought about the near extinction of alligators in America strangely enough. That's right, because French designer said, you know what looks fantastic? Is a handbag made from alligator or maybe some alligator shoes. And then all of a sudden, in just 100 years in Florida, they killed an estimated 10 million alligators. And by the 1950s, I believe the entire United States only had about 100,000 alligators. Yes, dude, that is awfully close to extinction. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, especially, I mean, considering there are five million now. So Florida outlawed alligator hunting in 1962. Then federally five years later, they did the same thing with its classification as an endangered animal. And in just a few years, though, things,

they came roaring back, literally, because alligators have sort of a unique breeding situation and that they recover very quickly because they can lay a lot of eggs. A female alligator lays about 30 to 50 eggs, buries them in rotting vegetation, and they're a little bigger than a big chicken egg. They're not huge. And that nest is sort of like a compost bin. It provides this heat. And this to me is one of the facts of the episode is the alligator will be gendered depending on how hot that pile gets. Yeah. And it's real specific too. Like basically, if it's in the low 80 degrees Fahrenheit, it's going to be girls, right? Yes. If it's in the higher 80s or low 90s, it's going to be boys. Little boys. And then if it's in between,

it's going to be a mix. Like that's how close the threshold is, is like if it's between 80 and 90, like that's just the smallest ways in temperature is going to turn one into a boy and turn one into a girl. Yeah. But if you're laying 30 to 50 eggs, I don't know about survival rates, but let's say half of those survive. What's the number? So it depends. Are you talking about eggs or juveniles? Because let me just tell you, I'll lay it down. Let's start with eggs. Eggs, I don't know. Okay. Let's start with taking them both together. How about that? Okay. 80% of alligators do not make it to adulthood. That's still a lot of alligators. That's my point. It is still a lot. Like if you're talking, I saw some middle-aged females are able to lay up to 90

eggs in a clutch at once, but so like if the average is 30 to 50, that's a lot. But it makes a lot of sense that something like 80% of eggs and juvenile alligators would be killed because alligators are in addition to being a keystone species, they're also an apex predator, which means that they have virtually no predators, natural predators themselves, like the occasional anaconda, python apparently, maybe once in a while, like a big panther will get ahold of one and kill it. But for the most part, an alligator is not going to be killed by anything other than a human, an adult alligator. So the way that an alligator's population is naturally controlled is by the faithful raccoon who comes along and steals alligator eggs much at

its own personal risk. And in doing that, and then also eating baby alligators after they've hatched hatchlings, the alligator population is controlled. Like rather than on the other end, it's on the beginning end, which I find fascinating. Nature is just gosh darn fascinating. I love it. Yeah. I mean, if you want your mind blown, just look at the video I saw of a leopard swimming through a pond to tackle an alligator on shore from behind and drag it into the pond. I was like, wait a minute, my world has turned upside down. I thought it was the other way around. I didn't know these things. I didn't know any cat really enjoyed swimming. And this thing swam through the water and stalked on land this alligator from behind and grabbed it and took

it right back in the pond. And I was like, what world am I living in? That is amazing. I can't watch that stuff anymore though. I don't mind. I know what you mean. Like Emily can't and never could. And I was always like, you know, it's just the life cycle. It's the world's order. It's nature. Yeah. She's like, I know, but I don't care. I don't want to watch it. And I was like, fair enough. You can't now. You can't watch it. Have I soapboxed about this recently? No, I don't think so. Let's hear it. Let me get out of your soapbox a little blow. You be challenged. She's like, why? What's the problem? What changed? And I said, I had to think about it and I figured it out. It's not that. Like what you just described,

I'm generally okay with. I've read a lot of David Pierce, who's this awesome philosopher who's on the end of the world. And he basically says, no, that's suffering still. And we should figure out how to program the biosphere so that there's no suffering any longer, so that there isn't that kind of stuff. But if you take all that aside and you do just kind of subscribe to the natural order of things, then I'm fine with that. What I realized I have a problem with is humans training their cameras onto it in almost like purient interest of death, of blood, of the end of life, of like viciousness. And that it's like, I don't like that impulse. And I certainly don't like celebrating it and putting it on display. And people, not you, but I mean like the conservationists even

who make documentaries like that saying like, it's just life. It's just the natural cycle of things. It's like, no, it's almost like a form of like snuff pornography, but with animals. That's kind of how I've come to feel about it. That's why I can't watch it anymore. I don't fault you for it. I'm just, I just, I'm affected by it now. And I wasn't before. I don't know what changes. Yeah, I hear you. I think, and I'm not defending myself here, but I think like I watch it through a very sort of scientific eye. And like, I definitely know that though there are people that watch stuff like that where they're like, yeah. Whereas I'm never like that. I'm always like, oh man, that's terrible. I feel so bad for those animals and like, boy, nature is rough.

Right. Is what I say when I turn the channel probably. Say it every time, boy, nature is rough. But I'm never like, I always feel bad and it's always hard to watch. Right. Yeah, I know I'm with you. I understand. Like I was saying, I wasn't calling you or anybody else out. Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. It was more like, I had never really thought about why before and it was definitely new. So I figured it was worth sharing, baby. It is very much. And you did talk about that once. I can't remember, but. Oh, well, then we're going to edit all this out because I don't want to. No, no, no, no, no. We're too young to start having that little cognitive decline. Do you know that I couldn't add seven and six this morning? I was like, I think it's 13.

And I sure I was like, what is going on with my brain? It was troubling. I guess let's put a button on the breeding and then we'll take a break. But mommy is going to protect the nest as best as she can from those raccoons. And then about 40 days later, those little hatchlings are going to make a little noise and then mama's going to dig them out. And then mama does something unique here in terms of modern reptiles and that she's going to stick around and protect, protect those little ladies and dudes if they get into trouble right away for a little while. And that doesn't really happen with modern reptiles. It's usually like, you're on your own, here's the world. But mama alligator is going to protect them for a bit,

which is something that certain dinosaur species did, which people say like, hey, there you go. And that's why, as you were saying earlier, like that they had this huge comeback because of their reproductive strategies. Yeah, even 20% of 50 eggs is a lot of gators. Sure. Yeah, because they get kind of big. It's like 10. Well, let's take a break and we'll come back and talk a little more about, I don't know, Chuck, how about alligators? Sounds good. Word up, Jerry. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough, or you're at the end of the road. Okay, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself,

what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh God. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh man. And so my husband, Michael, um, hey, that's me. Yep, we know that Michael and a different hot, sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide you through life step by step. Not another one. Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking, this is the story of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen. So we'll never ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted

Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikular and to be honest, I don't believe in astrology, but from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention because maybe there is magic in the stars, if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, Major League Baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had a handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology,

my whole world came crashing down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change, too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, Chuck, I told you that I saw that article about how I think it was from the Tennessee Valley Authority basically saying like, yep, there's alligators here now and they're here to stay. You can probably thank Climate Change for that. I said that they didn't. It's Tennessee Valley Authority. But that just enjoy nature and steer clear of them if you see

them. That was the message. It was like, yes, they're here now. They're not going anywhere, which I thought was pretty interesting because Tennessee can get pretty cold. It snows like just about every year in Tennessee during the winter. And you think of gators usually is something that live in very hot tropical climates. Right? Reptilian. Yeah, exactly. They're reptiles. They're cold-blooded. They need to be warm. Well, they don't actually hibernate, I don't believe, like not technically. They will burrow and hang out, but they're not like in a state of hibernation. We did a whole episode on that. But when it snows, that means that the water can freeze. And if they're in the water, Chuck, they actually have

a strategy for dealing with these freezing temperatures. Because as everyone knows, if a pond freezes, it's not like the fish all die underneath. It's actually a little warmer under toward the bottom than it is up top. That's why it doesn't freeze all the way through solid. And the fish can hang out there as well. The gator can do the exact same thing. And I think we should just share with the world what their strategy is because it's outstanding. Yeah. I think it could be summed up with two words. And this is probably what they yell out when that lake starts to freeze to each other. Nostrils out. That's kind of it. Yeah. They stick those little snouts up so they can breathe. And then they just let the ice form

around them in their little snout. That's it. Have you seen a photo of that? Yeah. I didn't look that up for some reason. It's pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, it's exactly what you'd think it looked like. It's a gator snout just barely sticking out of the ice frozen pond. But they're just sitting there in a, you know, they're not sitting there like doing their taxes or anything like they're in a very like slow state of metabolism. But again, they're not, they're not hibernating. And when the pond thaws enough, they'll break free and swim away until the next time there's going to be a freeze. And then they'll say what? Nostrils out. That's right. I guess the implication though is that it's better to

be in that frozen lake than on the shore. That's my, that's my understanding. Again, I think maybe the water temperature is warmer than the air temperature below the ice. I don't know. I guess because my thing would be like, it takes a while if it's not like, like water doesn't freeze in an instant. So it'd be like, why don't they just get out of the water, but they must stay in there for a reason. Yeah. This is in the day after tomorrow for Pete's sake. Right. Man, that poor Scottish helicopter guy. Oh goodness. So, so yes, they can live in Tennessee now, look out Tennessee. One of the other things, Chuck, whether we've kind of talked about is, you know, almost interchangeably talked about crocodiles and alligators and they're definitely

different. And when you look at them, if you know what you're looking for, you can very easily differentiate between an alligator and a crocodile. Right? Yeah. I mean, my go-to would be to look at their teeth. And if their mouths are shut, you can see for both of them, you can see those upper teeth pointing downward. But only for a crocodile can you see those bottom teeth pointing up. Right. They have that toothy grin is how it's put. And it really is an appropriate description. It is. They're creepier looking, I think, because of that. Yeah. But the actual shape of the snout is different too. The alligators have a wider rounded U-shaped snout. And the crocodiles, there's more long and pointed and V-shaped. And I think alligators have a wider upper jaw.

And then the crocodile have the same upper and lower jaw. That's why you can see those teeth. Man, speaking of crocodile teeth, you know that bird that cleans a crocodile's teeth? Yeah. I think I feel like I remember that. Apparently that is a science-nature myth. Oh, that's sad. Supposedly there's no genuine photo-documentary evidence of this bird cleaning the crocodile's teeth and that somehow, somewhere, a legend of it grew up. Oh, because that was like an example of symbiosis, right? Yes, exactly. But it's fake symbiosis apparently, which is such a bummer, man. Oh, man. I know we got to bust myths, but... Yeah. Well, we'll just end that part now. I don't want to drag anyone down in the alligator episode. That's okay. You'll just,

as usual, give me the blue pill. I'll always forget which pill it is. Yeah, blue pill. The blue pill. You see that new matrix document or trailer? No. There's a new one. Is it like the same everybody? I believe it is just Lana Wachowski, not both the Wachowskis, as far as the filmmaking goes. But yeah, I mean, it's Keanu and I saw, what's her name? Oh, what was her name? I had the biggest crush on her back then. Carrie Ann Moss. Carrie Ann Moss. She was great in Memento. And it looked like a... I don't think it's a de-aged Larry Fishburne. I think it's just a younger actor that they got that looks a lot like Neo. Not Neo. What was his name? Jerry.

Yeah. Lawrence Fishburne's character in The Matrix was Jerry. Yeah. Just like our Jerry. Morpheus. Yeah, right. And I think even the lady was in it. The... Oh, the oracle? Yeah, yeah. I think she's even in it. Oh, yeah. It looks pretty good. I don't know. I mean, I'll go see it. Yeah, sure. I would. Even though they burned us with the second, third ones. Oh, I don't know about that, did they? I definitely wouldn't have seen the third, but I think I saw the second one. Was it bad? They weren't well-regarded. Some people will defend them, but they generally were not well-regarded. I see. Okay.

I guess quickly before we go, we should talk a little bit about the fact that they do have a hunting program in Florida now. After saying you can't kill them at all, they have introduced a hunting program where they issue a limited number of hunting permits. I believe you can only capture a couple of them. Yeah. And their limits is to size and all that stuff. Right. And I guess this is population control, right? I mean, that's what hunters say usually. And apparently it has helped stabilize the population from basically every account I've seen. I know there was a big outcry because the year after they took them off of the endangered list is when they started the hunting program. But from what I saw, it has kept the population

stable. So, I mean, it's been going on for 30 years. And I know, like I said, they tie hunters' hands in Florida. No firearms. You can use what's called a bangstick, which basically delivers one usually a 44 caliber charge bullet to the back of the shader's head. It's basically like a spear with a bullet coming out of the end. But that's it as far as like firearms go. You can't use guns or anything like that. You can use fishing rods. Did you see that? Yeah. I also saw a video of a guy that was fishing in a Florida pond and an alligator came up on shore after him and he ran away like filming it. Well, this is like people will fish for gators. They make gator rods and like, you know, you can use certain kind of fishing line and hooks to fish for gators.

You can also use harpoons. You can use crossbows, bows, and arrows. But again, these are things that's like these gators are tough and it takes a lot to like fish for a gator and then fight it for 30 minutes before you can bring it in. So, you know, I don't advocate hunting in any form, but, you know, it sounds like Florida's kind of set it up where there's a... It's not just like, you know, like you can't shoot exactly. Remember internet hunting? Maybe the most despicable thing of all time. I refuse to write that article. I know. That's off to you, man. Back in the day. How was the sign that? And I was like, I'm not writing this. But supposedly there are... It's not like that by any stretch, but supposedly a lot of the hunts, like especially if you're an

out-of-stater coming to Florida to hunt an alligator, like a Guy Ritchie type, and you show up, you very well may be hunting what amounts to a tame alligator from an alligator farm that has no fear of humans because it's been fed hand-fed chickens and rabbits its whole life and wants to come toward you. And that you probably are going to be hunting one of those and it's perfectly legal, although it's kind of unethical. So if you are going to hunt alligators, again, I don't advocate it, you really need to do your research and your homework and make sure you're dealing with a legit outfit. Yes. And because poaching in the black market is still a problem. Since you brought it up, you should never feed alligators. No. And as a matter of fact, you as a bystander should feel

comfortably yelling at somebody who's feeding an alligator. Yeah. It's not something you do for sport. I've seen it's terrible, but I've seen people like drag meat behind their boat just for fun to like tow an alligator along. Keep your distance. Like you said, don't walk your small dogs near ponds or bushes where you can't really see what's going on in there. And if you do get run at, they do say, like you said earlier, to run straight as you can, fast as you can. And if it happens to get ahold of you, you got to fight them like a shark. You got to hit them. You got to poke out their eyes. You got to punch it in the head. Go for the palatal valve I've heard plenty of times. Yeah. Like do whatever you can because that alligator is going

to need to adjust at some point. It's sort of like when you're playing tug of war with your dog. You act like you're not paying attention. So the dog readjust and that's when you yank it. Yeah. That's how you get the dog every time. That's also how you escape with your life from a gator. Dumb dogs. Did you ever see the video of the guy who was walking his cute little dog too close to a pond and a gator got ahold of it? No, no, no. And the guy jumped in and just calmly, almost expertly like open, pried open the gator's mouth to free his dog. And he was smoking a cigar, had his cigar in his mouth the whole time while he's doing this. Like he does it like it's part of his and his dog's morning routine. And was the dog okay? Yeah, it was okay.

It was a little scratched up and I think probably deeply traumatized, but it lived and I don't even know if it like had to go to the hospital or not. Amazing. It is amazing. There's a lot of videos you can check out on alligators if you're bored. Yeah, it's pretty fun to watch. Yeah. Yeah, it is. If you want to know more about alligators, then go learn more about alligators. There's plenty to learn. Just don't get too close. Since I said don't get too close, it's time for Listener Mail. I'm going to call this gentle ribbing from Louise. Hey guys, I was listening to the episode on embalming this morning while I was making my breakfast. When I got to the part about the body's blood being drained out and going into a regular water

treatment, it made me laugh. How Josh was so dismayed that they would allow blood to go through the same process as poop and pee. It was almost as if he had never been straight. This is a very embarrassing email from me. This is it, both of us, because I certainly didn't say, well, what about menstruation? It was far from my mind, too. That's very nice of you to say, but this is really most embarrassing for me. But I will take the bullet with you. While I occasionally have some background knowledge or added perspective on a topic, it is rare that I hear either of you exclaim in wonder over something I've known about since I was 12. Just some gentle ribbing since you've managed to make me feel befriended over the years.

I really enjoy your podcast and all that I learned through your light-hearted and conversational tone during these strict shutdowns. At the beginnings of the pandemic, you definitely provided me with a sense of companionship as I listened to you talk to each other while also teaching me. I appreciate the diversity of topics you present and the way you make challenging concepts approachable without being condescending. Keep up the good work. Louise, that was the sweetest gentle ribbing we've ever gotten, so thank you for that. Really pulled it out at the end there, Louise. Very much so. Thanks a lot. You got anything else? I got nothing else. Okay. Well, if you want to be like Louise and

rib us gently, we always appreciate that kind of thing. You can wrap it up in an email and send it off to stuffpodcastsatihartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts, My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new I Heart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help and a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen,

so we'll never ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to believe. You can find in Major League Baseball, international banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.