Stuff You Should Know - How Scuba Works

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

It’s a good, old fashioned how it works episode where we break down all of the nuts and bolts and threats to safety that make scuba diving such a unique and thrilling hobby. Dive in feet first with Josh and Chuck on the undersea adventure of a lifetime!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, I'm Chelsea Paredi. Do you feel chronic existential dread but love talking about delicious snacks? Call me! My podcast is relaunching! Do you fear wild dangerous animals to the point where you're constantly watching attack videos and reading articles about wild animal tech survivors or those who succumb to attack? Call in! We can also discuss reality shows and emergency room footage. Listen to Call Chelsea Paredi on Will Ferrell's big money players network on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It's JoJoCewa, host of the new podcast, JoJoCewa now. It's time to get real up close and personal.

I'm gonna be talking to you like I'm writing in a journal. You're gonna get all of the tea and all of the scoop. I'm also gonna be talking to my friends, to people I admire, to people that are trending right now. So you're gonna get like, JoJo Siwa now, and like, now what's going on in the world? It's gonna be great, and I really hope you like it. You can listen to JoJo Siwa now on the I Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too and it's a good old-fashioned barn burner whiz-banger of an episode. I ran out of weird colloquialism. Oh yeah? Yeah, just now, didn't you hear? Yeah, but I just figured you were still doing them in your head.

No, I was frantically grasping for another one in my head and it was just dust and a tumble weed. So this is sort of continuing our underwater series. We'll call it. Yeah, this is so stuff you should know. We've done stuff that's much more specific about the general category that we're talking about, and now we're finally doing this general category. Yeah, we did the diving bell. We did the butterfly. We did.

We did cave diving. In fact, cave diving was released as a select just this year. Yes, such a good one. And do I need to remind you about the other related episode? I forgot about that. Oh, I'll give you a hint. Meow! I remember.

I remember the scuba cat episode. Didn't you interview scuba cat? Oh, yeah, I mean, for those of you who don't know, the short version is many, many years ago in the very early days of the podcast, occasionally we were sort of told to do certain things as episodes. Like, speakable things. And two of them really stand out to me. One of them was Scuba Cat, which was this guy who trained his cat to Scuba dive and

it's literally like a blurb or maybe a little fluffy news piece at the end of a news program. And they're like, do this stuff. You should know episode on this cat and this guy. Why though? Do you remember, did they just want page views or something? I guess or else that guy happened to be friends with, you know, whoever owned the company at the time. All right, so I think there was an article on the website

we worked for and they were probably just trying to drive people to that. So we did one on Scooby Cat. I would really love that just to be scrubbed. But then the archive. Well, way to go bringing it up then. What was I going to say, Chuck? Oh, wasn't this thing in like a little submarine? Kind of, is in that with the Scooby diving was? I don't think so. I think he built them a little, a little outfit.

Oh, okay. Wow. A little thing with like a, you know, a big bubble mask. Okay, that's worth an episode. We should redo it. We should do some. We should do some. We should do some. We should do some. We should do some.

We should do some. We should do some. We should do some. We should do some. We should do some. We should do some. We should do some. We should do some.

We should do some. We should do some. We should do some. We should do some. We should do some. We should do some. We should do some. We should do some. We should do some. Yeah What can you do with an out-toid's tin? Yeah for real like I don't know how that one came up either but we were instructed to do an episode on tenevators and They were interesting, but not episodes length interesting Not even when they were six minutes long. Yeah, and a tenevator just for those of you don't know

They take out toy tins and they do things with them like tournament or radios Maybe they hold coins instead of out toys. It's just repurposing and yeah, it's exactly it's repurposing an out toy Tintinnovation very well boy, and we always talk about Jack Amers and the Sun like that's because we're literally to ashamed to even mention those other two but here they are go listen to them Just quickly wanted to say, got back from Mexico and I did not scuba dive. I snorkeled. Oh yeah, that's fun.

And I didn't, I mean, I love the experience, but I learned that I, and especially my daughter are free divers. Oh yeah. She couldn't do it, man. We got her, I mean, she loves to swim more than anything, and we got her in all the gear, put her in the water, and she was couldn't do it man. We got her I mean she loves to swim more than anything and we got her in all the gear Put her in the water and she was

Bitch to fit quite frankly. Oh, like she couldn't breathe through the tube She does it in pools like It just you know when your eight things happen and you can't explain why a kid will dig in But she wasn't into it. We were very frustrated. Did not handle it well. She asked to get back on the boat. She got back on the boat and cried while we scuba, sorry snorkeled. We're like, we're out of here. We're going to do it. You know, you'll be okay. And then once we were done, she asked the scuba guys, or the snorkel guys, can I just get in with my mask and freedive? And it was in Mexico. They're like, sure.

Right. And she did. And she turned into a dolphin. And I recounted this on Instagram. It took some great pictures of her. Just swimming like no kid has ever loved swimming before. And it was just a big lesson for everybody. I know what happened though. I think unless I'm misreading it she she got claustrophobic from having to breathe through that tube. Now she does it all the time and pulls what it was I think was. Wearing the life vest keeping her up on the surface. Okay, well you left that little detail out well, I mean that's part ofling. You got to, you got to vest on so it keeps you up top.

And she was like, no, no, no, I belong down there. My home is the sea. I see. This is Bonnie Prince Billy says. I got you. Okay. Well, that makes a lot more sense. I guess I was just projecting on to her because I used to get claustrophobic trying to breathe through a snorkel.

Well, a lot of people on Instagram supported that and said, you know, I have a hard time with this equipment too and I love to swim, but it was really. Well, a lot of people on Instagram supported that and said, you know, I have a hard time with this equipment too and I love to swim, but it was really that lifeest, I think. Okay, all right. Well, we finally established the root cause then. Yeah, but here we go with scuba. Oh, okay, I guess, okay.

So what does scuba stand for, Chuck? Self-contained underwater breathing, situation. Appamatics. Appamep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep-ep- But does it with capitals and periods or anything like that? It's just lower, it's a word, it's its own word now. It's almost lost its meaning as far as like the acronym goes. And yet it's gained so much meaning over the years because as Scuba has been around for over the decades, more and more people have found the joy of going underwater. And I heard you laugh at me, by the way. And breathe.

If you breathe fully underwater, no snorkel, like your head is nowhere near the surface of the water. And it doesn't need to be like significantly distant from the water, it can just be like a foot below the water. But you're breathing underwater, it's an amazing feeling for sure. And a lot of people have discovered that over the years and said, scoop is the life for sure. And a lot of people have discovered that over the years and said, scuba is the life for me. Well, as of December 2019, you had scuba

dived once. Yep. Have you done it since? No, and I'm actually a little troubled because I I read that you're supposed to go like three or four open water dives and I only went on one. So I've been under the impression that I've been certified to scuba dive all this time and I'm like, is that true? I can't remember where my car is or anything. So I wonder if I actually wasn't fully certified. Hmm.

Or satisfied. I would find it very dissatisfying if that were true. Well, do you want to do it again? Because I didn't get a good read on you in 2019. Maybe. I didn't know you then like a no you know. Maybe because I, before the reason I didn't like is because I got, it made me see sick. Like the the the air mixture did not sit well with me. And then getting on the boat in between dives made it even worse. So I was like, I don't feel like doing this ever again,

but I think enough times pass that's possible I would try it again. Well, I wanna get certified now for sure. I did anyway before and we thought we'd what are beaks with snorkeling. The big problem I had, man, was the fins. I mean, there were a lot of currents, and I just, I felt like I couldn't go

at Getneyware. Yeah. And then at the end, when Ruby was freediving, I did the same thing. I took off all my stuff, except for my mask, and I went down there and I was like, all right, well, this is, I feel like I can swim again. Yeah, it's all, it takes a lot of getting used to

because it is, it's meant to help you and it does if you are familiar with it and comfortable with it. But if not, it's all in conference. It makes everything difficult. And I guess you just want to take it all off and just free dive like you're saying. Yeah, Emily was cruising around. But you know, we saw a little, a little, my first like coral that I've ever seen, like live coral. Uh-huh. And it was beautiful. And you know, the little stripey bright fish.

And I was, I was in there with those guys for the first time. And it was, it was remarkable and amazing. Was it a dori or a Nemo that you saw? Oh, I don't know. I think yellow stripes. I don't think it was technically a clown fish, although maybe they're all types of clownfish, I'm not sure. What's a clownfish?

I think like a Dory or a Nemo. I saw this one big thing, it was like the size of a dinner plate, another big flat guy. Oh, wow. He was cool and then Emily saw a sea turtle, which I did not see. Oh, neat.

And then we also saw their efforts to, you know, with artificial reefs, with like these PVC sort of pyramids that they were building down there. Got plenty of people, right? Yeah, the squirrel wouldn't in great shape. It was in parts, but other parts were not great. And that was sad. Yeah, you can think the fossil fuel industry for that. That's right. So Chuck, one thing that I had no idea about with researching the SCUBA episode is that it actually, the SCUBA phenomenon, I guess you could call it, dates back to the mid 19th century.

And it's not like somebody had an idea and then a hundred years later somebody actually created it. Someone in the 1860s actually created the first SC scuba equipment. That's right. Are you going to say his name? You're going to make me do it. I'll say the first name, mid-Bin Wa. Okay. And it's a Rookway role or rock and roll. Is that what that means? I don't think so, but it looks and when you pronounce it, it sounds a lot like rock and roll. Yeah, Rook and or roll. Rookway roll. Yeah, rock and roll.

Yeah, so he's obviously French and he was not trying to figure out a way to recreationally dive in the ocean. He was trying to figure out a way to help others rescue workers, rescue people in collapsed mines, because these things would get filled up with nasty gases. He was like, well, I think I can invent the system that allows these rescuers to go down there and breathe safely so they can save these people. And he called that first one a regulator for equalization of compressed gas. A little on the nose.

A regulator. Sure. Sure. So I guess there's a little verbose. Yeah. Or a demand regulator. Yeah, and the reason it was a demand regulator, and this is the big deal, like you could feed somebody air

continuously, but you're going to use up a lot of air. You might over inflate their lungs accidentally, which is it's a, it's a, it can be a problem with novices and scuba. But a demand regulator means that you're only sucking in that compressed air when you're breathing in. When you exhale, that air is no longer coming into your, into your mouth, into your goal it.

Yeah, it's on demand like the best movies. And this guy, along with a guy named August Deine Rousse, Deine Rousse. Deine Rousse. It was in there that last one I think nailed it. But Ben won August, let's call him that. They got together and figure out how to turn this not just into a mine safety equipment, piece of equipment, but actually to use it to breathe underwater. So they put the whole like compressed air thing in like a backpack. I get the impression it was like a fabric bag holding the compressed air. They put that demand regulator on and they were working underwater, untethered from any boat, using the first genuine

scuba in the 1860s. Yeah, it was like the first legit diving suit essentially. They had lead sold shoes and they had weights hanging under your arms. At first there was still no mask, they used a nose clip, but then a year later in 1866, they brought about the first mask, which was a copper helmet with a single window, then they called the groin because it was French for pigs now, and it kind of looks like a pig's now. And they won for their efforts, they won the gold medal at the 1867 World's Fair. So the arrow for.

Yeah, they called it the Aero Four, right? So, but again, the thing about this is like, you're like, yeah, I've seen those before, like there was a haunted one on Scooby Doo. There's the Aero's coming out of the helmet. No, that's the distinction. There's no Aero's. They were untethered to anything. They could roam as free as they wanted on the sea floor.

That's right. So fast forward a few years, she's about 70, yeah, about 70 years. There was another person who had a very similar idea. What was his name? Christian Lamberton? Yeah, well, there was a guy in the 20s, Eve LaPriot, who in Dave helped us out with this. Dave dug this guy up. And it was sort of one of the first sort of modern takes on a scuba system, but the air still wasn't on demand at that point. They adjusted the airflow, like as they went along. And then Christian Lambrinson came along in 1954 and did a couple of things. Well, actually, he came along in 1939 with the Lamberton amphibious respirator unit or

the LaRou. It didn't rename it SCUBA until 1954. Okay. But he was a, this was a rebreather. It still wasn't the same thing. He had a CO2 filter and he was trying to pitch it to the military. He's like, he was an American guy. He's like, look, this thing's got no bubbles. So he pitched it to the Navy. Like, you know, you can sneak up on people in other words. Sure. And he pitched it to the Navy. They

rejected it. And then the OSS, which the US had at the time, the office of strategic services would eventually become, not become the CIA, but sort of become the CIA. Yeah, more. Yeah, and they, the OSS loved it. And like their underwater unit, like started using this Lambert's and Scuba unit, even though it still wasn't a, it was a rebreather, and we'll talk about all that stuff soon. Yeah, which is more advanced than Scuba.

So this guy basically just created the more advanced version of Scuba out of the gate. You know? Yeah, it is very interesting. And his invention was so successful that it was used from the 50s to the 80s by the US military. Yeah, unchanged. Kind of like, you see like those mid to late 80s movies

and the cars are still look like they're from the 70s because nobody updated their stuff until that Ford Taurus came out in 1988 and Robocop. It's like that. What a great movie. You know, in the 80s they were like this is this is an old timey re-brea that we need to update this. Yeah, exactly. So there was a that's almost like a separate track like Christian Lam lambert's in was uh... very much dedicated to inventing this stuff for the military he invented a more advanced version of scuba colorebri there which will talk about like you said

the much more familiar version of the scuba story uh... kind of went in parallel and started a few about the same time as christian lambert's in and uh... it was a pair of French guys who up to Christian Lambertson, they were running the scuba world. And it was Jacques Cousteau and Emil Gagnon. And those two together are the ones who gave the world scuba. That's right. I saw Gagnon then also saw he was French and it was Genio. Yeah, I know. I didn't want to attempt it. I'm so tired of failing.

Oh no. So they got together, like you said, and they kind of took a Rokuai role. Yeah. They took his old on-demand regulator and said, all right, I think we can update this thing. Gen-Yo and World War II had invented a regulator that used cooking gas to feed into the carburetor of a car because the Germans said, we're taking on your gas, Paris. And so he sort of retrofitted a way to make a car work. And Kusso was like, this is brilliant. We can use this for scuba. And he's like, you want a huff-cooking gas underwater? He's like, no, no, we're going to, we're not going to use the cooking gas, Gagnon. Yeah. And also scuba hasn't been so named yet. It was still probably about 10 years before that. So they called it the Tejethro-Tolz Delight, the Aquilong. Banner, wana-nau, nau, nau, nau.

I had an idea, and I don't know, maybe I can convince you right here, and we'll go back and edit this part out. Anytime we said Aquilong, just playing that one little riff. Banner, wana-nau, nau, nau, nau. Yeah, exactly. I think that we could get away with it after hearing the intellectual property episode. I think we could get away with just that little bit.

Well, the very least you could play my mouth version, because that's pretty clear. All right. We'll look into it in the edit. It's funny. Our old pal, a friend of the show, Paul Leftopkins. Every time the word aqua lung comes up he gets upset will not upset

but makes a point of why did jethro told put that one line in there snout is running down the snouts that line really bugs him yeah pretty funny that i heard that one anytime i think of polyptomkins i think it could get, kick, boss. That's good stuff. Yeah. So, they didn't call it scuba yet, Kustow didn't they call it the aquilong?

Like you say. Na na na na na na na. Right. And but it was the same thing. It was what you, if you go and take up the sport of scuba now, it's essentially the what you're doing, like what Kustow was using. And the reason it caught on is because he made a movie called The Silent World that was released in what,

56, 1956. And it went an Oscar. It was an amazing documentary. And I was watching him, like, wow, there's some amazing rec diving scenes in there. But it's also hilarious. One guy like pulls the door off of the hinges of a shipwreck to get into the shipwreck.

They're just totally like vandalizing the ship. Yeah. But I was also at the same time thinking, like all that audiences have never seen something like this. That's it. That was the ticket with Silent World. It's that was, there had not been a lot of underwater photography. And it blew minds in 1956.

Not only did it when the Oscar, it was the first golden palm winner it can for a documentary and stayed that way until Michael Moore won for Fahrenheit 9-11. Oh wow. And it grossed in today dollars 33 million bucks. Oh, not bad. It's a documentary. That's a theatrical doc. That's really, really good money. and it grossed in today dollars thirty three million bucks. Oh, not bad. It's a documentary. That's a theatrical doc. That's really really good money. For sure. And also just to finish up on Goyang.

Sure. He was not happy with that first version. So in 58, he finally released what was called the Aqua Master Regulator. And sold a million of those up until like 1972. That was like the go-to regulator. Gotcha. So yeah, these guys essentially created the recreational version of SCUBA, introduced it to the world through the silent world and sat back and took kudos from that point on. And if you watch the silent world, it bears strong resemblance to the life aquatic with Steve Zizu. No mistake. And one other thing about Jacques Cousteau, I didn't realize he worked for the French resistance as a matter of fact during World War II. Well Dave, we're going to have to

do one on him because Dave sent us this material. He was like, please, please, please let me do one on Jacques Cousteau. We went now. Speaking of Dave also Chuck, you know, he has his podcast Bible Time Machine. Yeah, it's about Bible stuff, but you don't have to like, you know, it's from like a historical perspective. It's highly accessible. Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.

I know. But he had a blockbuster guest on the other day. Actually, I think it came out a couple weeks ago. He had John Cleese in the interview about the life of Brian. John Cleese. How did that happen? I couldn't get a John Cleese on movie crush. I don't know how they must have their ministers or friends or something. Yeah, that was great. So big congrats to Dave on the John Cleese app. Exactly. And if you like John Cleese and you like Dave, go listen to him talking to one another.

Yeah, shall we take a break? I think it's high time. We finally made it through the first section. All right, we'll be right back. Hello, I'm Chelsea Paredi. Do you feel chronic existential dread but love talking about delicious snacks? Call me! My podcast is relaunching! Subscribe and treat yourself to sound effects like this!

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I'm Tim O'Brien, the senior executive editor for Bloomberg Opinion. And I'm your O'Brien, the senior executive editor for Bloomberg Opinion, and I'm your host for Crash Course, a weekly podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. Every week on Crash Course, all bring listeners directly into the arenas where epic upheavals occur. And I'm going to explore the lessons we can learn when creativity and ambition collide with competition and power.

Each Tuesday, I'll talk to Bloomberg reporters around the world, as well as experts and big names in the news. Together, we'll explore business, political, and social disruptions, and what we can learn from them. I'm Tim O'Brien, host of Crash Course, a new weekly podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. Listen to Crash Course every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, so we're back and we're going to talk a little bit about the different types of scuba diving that you can do. There's the aforementioned open water diving that you talked about. That is, you know, it's the most common one.

It's what you think about when you think about going on vacation somebody taking you out in a boat throwing that gear on you and saying have a lot of fun everybody but it can also it doesn't have to take place on vacation or even in a tropical locale or even in like a sea or an ocean it can take place in a lake sure can take place in a quarry as long as I think I'm not kidding as long as there is no what they call sealing over you, there's nothing between you and the surface of the water that's considered open water diving,

and that's the far and away the most common recreational diving. That's right, and you can go down, if you're certified and we'll get to the certification, you can go down to 100 feet with your advanced open water certification. Yeah. Well, with the main one, the first one that you get, just the regular open water diving certification at 60 feet. Oh, okay. I wasn't sure if that was official. You got to go back for the extra 40 feet.

You want an extra 40? It's going to cost you. So there's also night diving is another one? Fine. Same thing, but at night. And there's apparently a whole different world out there in the ocean at night, which is pretty cool. Yeah, I love swimming at night in the ocean, but. I can't do it.

I just, I'm scared of dark water. I get it, dude. Even an ocean swimming person like myself was out in this watered last week at night, and fine, having fun, but at a certain point, I was like, huh. And then, I'll just casually swim back in.

Yeah, so I would have started out with that, huh? Right, it took me a little while. Yeah, but it does sound pretty cool. Like if you're not afraid of dark water, then of course, just that would be a great time to scuba dive It's a little more dangerous though than regular open water diving because you can get lost very easily So most of the time you're tethered to the boat so you can find your way back That's right. What about drift diving? This sounds like you did the reverse of this snorkeling

Yeah drift diving is, you know, oceans have those strong currents, or certainly for your inner river. And I think the point of drift diving is to get dropped into one of these currents and off you go. Like those sea turtles and finding Nemo? Yeah, were they sea turtles?

Yeah, they were riding like the underwater current. It was like a highway that you could get on and just zip off. I haven't seen that in a while. I haven't either, but apparently you made a really strong impression on me. It sounds like it. So it's cool because you don't have to expend

as much energy, which is like, whoa, who cares? Actually, scuba diving requires a lot of energy. It's really hard work. So to save yourself any effort or energy is pretty great. And then also because you're working hard, you're breathing harder. So you're actually using more oxygen without a current than you are with a current, which means you can conceivably stay down longer because you have more air. Yeah, that sounds great. Sure, it does. That's why people love it. You got technical diving, which is an umbrella term for most kinds of advanced diving that

we're going to continue to talk about here. Maybe we should just talk about those because most of these next few fall under technical diving. The first of which is wreck diving. You can go out and swim around a legit sunken battleship or ship either one that was naturally sunk or well nothing naturally sinks I guess like that or so not supposed to at least but you know like one that was sunken battle or one you know now they go out there and don't use PVC like I saw right I saw these little PVC pyramids. They will sink a full ship and say, all right, do your work, Coral.

Yeah, exactly. And they do it to form coral reefs, but at the same time also, it's just something interesting for divers that come look at too. Yeah, but I don't think you're, I think you've got to be pretty advanced actually if you want to swim through like the kitchen or something like that. Yeah. Generally, you're just sort of swimming around it. Right.

You can do just regular basic open water certification diving around it, like you said, on top of it. When you want to go in it, you better add several years to your diving experience. It's extraordinarily dangerous because there's all in a shipwreck. There's all sorts of things you get caught on, you can get stuck on, you can get lost if the ship's big enough and dark enough. No, thank you. Exactly. And like all of the other technical diving, it has a ceiling. There's something between you and the surface that would impede you from going up to the surface if you needed to. That's when really makes it so dangerous. Yeah, I mean, that sounds interesting and fun, but I'm going to stick to no ceiling.

I like watching videos of it. It makes my toes curl, but because you know, it used to be above the surface, but I wouldn't, I don't think I would want to wreck dive either, but I like watching wreck diving videos. Yeah. You got your deep diving, which requires deep dive certification. And I believe you can go down to 131 feet and beyond if you really get those certifications in order and you've got the the wherewithal. Yeah, I think when you go and get your first deep dive or certification, the most they want you to go down is 130 feet, 40 meters, right?

But then I think with experience and like you hook up with other deep divers, then you start going further and further down. But that's... Once they make fun of you, hit dinner. Exactly. Exactly. But they, I mean just the the extra Thought and preparation and all the extra things that can go wrong with a deep dive It's it's amazing even if there's nothing over you

Between you and the surface just being down that that deep is it can be very dangerous and 40 meters You're like I mean that doesn't seem like that deep There's like the Titanic's at like 12,000 feet or something crazy like that. That's significant because your body's not designed to be down 40 meters. That many atmospheres below sea level. No, and we'll get to decompression sickness

and I'll coming up. Well, let's talk about it here. How about that? Oh, sounds like a great idea. Actually, that sounds exactly as how we discussed it. Sure. So, you've probably heard of the bins. That's sort of the common name for decompression sickness.

And that is a, it can be pretty rough, apparently. It can be very painful. It can be fatal. And it's caused by nitrogen bubbles, nitrogen, nitrogen bubbles in your blood stream. That's the problem with the bins. Yeah, because the air we breathe has like 78, 72 percent, 78 percent nitrogen, 21 percent oxygen in the rest is trace stuff, right? And that nitrogen, typically at sea level, or even, you or even higher than sea level, but whatever.

I think I just made this more complicated than I needed to. But the nitrogen typically goes through our body and we expire it, breath it out, it does nothing. It doesn't react with anything. It's too hard to chemically deconstruct and use for something else that requires too much energy, so we just pass it through. But when we're down breathing, the nitrogen that stays in our body at any given time,

and we're below surface, below sea level, it turns into a gas and permeates our bloodstream. But as we go up, if that gas is an absorbed slowly into our tissues. It will form bubbles just like when you open a pop a soda a coke whatever you want to call it Mm-hmm. It's with inside there's no bubbles But when you open it up and introduce air and change the air pressure the atmospheric pressure inside the can all that gas Turns into bubbles carbonation of CO2 carbonation, and that would be the same thing that happened in your tissues and joints, and that is not something that you want to happen. No, if you want a topochico or soda or a nice frothy beer, you want that thing carbonated. You don't want your insides of your body carbonated.

No, you definitely don't, because it's agonizing. The apparently sailors named it the bends because you would be doubled over an agony. That does not sound great. And then on top of it, just being extraordinarily painful, it can kill you in some circumstances. So they figured out that you actually, you can stay down at a certain depth for a certain amount of time. And then if you do, you're going to have to do what are known as decompression stops on the way back up. That's right. In your way, you got to know how deep you are. You got to stop when you're supposed to. You got to hang out for a little body, give your body a chance to equalize the pressure. And then you go up a little bit more and then do it again. And obviously this is all and then do it again. And obviously this is all completely regulated

by your dive instructor. They're telling you what to do unless you're out there on your own and you're like super experienced, you know how to do all this stuff. But they're telling you how much time you need to spend at what depth to ascend safely. Just to give you Dave dug up this kind of fun fact

about the, I think the deepest scuba dive on record was over a thousand feet by an Egyptian diver named Ahmed Geber. And 14 minutes down, I imagine you just, you've seen the videos of those deep divers where they just put on the gear and they have some sort of a weight and they just get dragged to like the bottom of the ocean. Very quickly, it took 14 minutes to get down that deep, but it took 14 hours to safely decompress on the way back up. Yeah, just slowly, I mean, that's crazy.

It's a long time. So yeah, a lot of the deeper dives, or you spend way more time doing decompression stops than you do actually doing your dive, right? So you have to like calculate this stuff. There's tables, there's dive computers that we'll talk about, but you have to before you go into the water, you need to know exactly how long you're going to be down there, exactly what depth you're going to be at, and then you have to know based on those two factors, how many decompression stops you have to make in it? What depth on the way back up that you need to stop at?

Yeah, two words you're never gonna hear, scuba diving are wing it. That's right. You don't wanna wing it. Man, you definitely don't. You got altitude diving, so if all this talk of going down, down, down, and different pressures and things make sense, then it would make sense that if you're diving in a lake,

super, super high above sea level, that that would change things too. And it does. If you're more than a thousand feet above sea level, it's going to be a different experience. So, you know, they're going to know what they're doing there too as far as, you know, how you're going to decompress going down when you're actually high up. Right. Which, it's strange, you're like, okay, you're actually high up, but because you're under

water and all that extra water pressure, it has, apparently, you're more exposed to decompression sickness at high altitude dives than you are below sea level. Wow. You remember very famously in the firm, two things the firm introduced the world to Red Strait beer and the awareness that you can't scuba dive and fly in the same 24 hour period. And my cousin and my uncle who lived in Memphis at the time and were very briefly in that movie.

Oh really? Were they the person on the beach? Now my cousin was a little girl at the time, my cousin Autumn, and she was like a full screenshot of her and another kid like at the big company party early on. And then my uncle Steve, who you've met, that lives out near San Francisco, he had like, he was trying to be an actor at the time, he had a speaking line. I think if I'm not mistaken, he came into an office and said something about, you know.

These pretzels are making me thirsty. I think that was it. Anyway, I didn't know Red Stripe was that in the firm? Yeah, definitely. No one knew what Red Stripe was until then. And all of a sudden it was like the hippest beer on the planet, because the 80s were so shallow. Okay.

So that's altitude diving and our little side trip on the firm. There's also cavern diving and cave diving, which we usually put hand in hand. Yeah, we covered those. They definitely do connect, but really cavern diving is just not really going all the way into a cave. Mm-hmm. Once you are out of the light, you are now cave diving. If you're in the light, you're cavern diving.

And so that means things like cenotes and springs qualify as cavern diving. There's easy access to the surface. Whereas with cave diving, if you've gone and listened to that episode, there is no access to the surface and you are completely out of your mind to even try it once. That's right.

It's our episode from December 2019, Cabe Diving, Colin, totally nuts. Yep. Appropriately named. You got ice diving. Yeah. You can actually go dive in the cold cold water under thick ice and go see those animals like penguins and seals and things. Yep.

And apparently there's a place called Rommu Quarry in Estonia that has good ice diving, but in the summer, the big draw is there's a sunken underwater prison there in the quarry. Cool. Yeah, like you can swim around, there's bars on the windows and stuff like that, it's pretty neat. Ooh, sounds spooky.

It does. So what about the gear chuck? If you say, okay, I like this. I want to go ice diving. I want to go cave diving. I want to do it all. What do I need to get Josh and Chuck? Well, I say we tell everybody what to get.

What do you say? Well, you got to get an oxygen tank. No, no, no. You're not supposed to say oxygen tank. Because it's not oxygen. It's a scuba tank or it's a cylinder and like we said it's filled and not with just oxygen. It's air that you breathe. You got to breathe like you normally breathe. So it's going to be 21% oxygen, 78% nitrogen and those

trace gases they want to give you an experience like you're used to as far as breathing goes. Unless you do something called enriched air diving, that's got 32% oxygen and less nitrogen, which they call nitrox32. And this lets you stay down there a little bit longer and you don't apparently at all have to make those decompression stops. No, I'm sure that there's a depth and a time at depth that you would have to make decompression stops, but it's much deeper and much more time before you would have to. That's my impression. There's also a BCD, and a BCD in addition to your tank, your cylinder, is probably the

most second most important piece of equipment for scuba diving. The reason why is because this is a little inflatable or very importantly deflatable vest that you wear that if you use it properly allows you to hover completely motionless during your dive. And if you're really good at it, you can use it to back out of a place, upward or downward. There's just a lot of really neat things

you can do using this buoyancy control device. And if you can't do it, then you might start going up to the surface. You might be stuck on the bottom. It takes a lot of practice, but when you get it right, you can really gracefully and really smoothly move through the ocean.

Yeah, I mean, that's the videos you see. No one does videos of you and snorkelfins going, I can't swim in these things or my daughter crying on a boat or somebody floating, bobbing up and down with their BCD being a PIA. Yeah, exactly. You know? a PIA. Yeah, exactly. You know? PIA. Oh, I see it. I got it.

And it all just looks like all you do is just jump in that water and you're just immediately perfectly floating and meeting Nemo. Yeah, and I think that's a really great point, Chuck, because it takes a lot of practice at this. Nobody goes into scuba diving and it's just a natural at it. Because we're not natural at scuba diving, it's something you have to learn, you have to practice that, but once you do, it's very rewarding. Yeah, I look forward to it. You got your regulator, which we talked

about, that different people help perfect over the years, and that is going to regulate that flow of the pressurized air into your mouth. They differ a little bit, but generally you have the first stage part. That's the one that actually attaches to the scuba tank and is going to do that first sort of pressure reduction to make sure you're not getting blasted out. Then you've got your demand valve or the second stage that goes into the mouthpiece that you're using to breathe. And you're going to have a second mouthpiece, almost like a backup parachute, right? Yes, it's a really great way to put it.

If you are out on a dive with the buddy, which you always want to be out on a dive with the buddy, and your buddy's air runs out, you have a second mouthpiece that accesses your air that you both can use as you start going back up. You can save your buddy's life with the additional hose. Pretty good. Or I'd imagine if something went wrong with your own, right? Well, I guess, but that would mean that your actual like your mouthpiece or something broke and you could use the other one. Sure, if that happened, if something went wrong with your air, no, it'd be just as useless as your other one. You know what happened when I was snorkeling? What?

I snorkeled for a few minutes and I went to put that thing back in my mouth and it wasn't there. It fell off. I was like, hey, dude, I'm not feeling one. I can't do zero. Do I have a mouthpiece and a snorkel? And he went, no. And then he went, I see it, it's on the bottom. Let me go get it. I guess it just became a gliptor something. Yeah, I forgot they are, I think they do come in pieces then. Well, no, this was the tube, the whole thing. Oh, I see. So you just had it attached to your mask and it just fell away.

I see. Fell away. Speaking of masks, Chuck, by the way, you can have a single lens mask or a dual lens mask, did you know that? Yeah, I've also got, and I was going to take it down there, one of those full face snorkel deals, which I have used in swimming pools, and they're quite fun, but I did not take it. But I do like the idea of sort of the old school single lens. I do too, but the great thing about a dual lens

is if you wear glasses and you have two different prescriptions for your eyes, you can give prescription lenses for your mask, which I had one of those. It's really neat, it's helpful. Although you can also just wear contacts like a normal person. Do you still have those?

I'd that mask. Don't know where it is. I don't have it handy, so I'm not sure where it is. Well, your prescription might have changed anyway. You should just get a new one. That's true. I just worked on text now. I could use any mask. Oh, that's true.

What else? Well, we got those fins. Colin Flippers, because they're going to make fun of you. So, you got those fins and they are pretty standard. They're the ones that I saw mostly were split fins. And they are just, there's no getting around it. Those things are awkward to swim in if you're not used to them. I felt just like I was stepping on them. It's kind of like we're in snow skis.

I just felt very awkward. Well, also, in addition to being awkward, you can really accidentally tear up coral or do all sorts of stuff if you're not adept at using your fins or you're not aware of where your body is. So it is, it's not just you, the head trouble with fins. Yeah, my toe, my left foot kept cramping up too. It was a something like a terrible experience.

It was great once I took those things off. So, scuba diving is a very expensive hobby. It's expensive upfront, it's expensive, during it's expensive, after it's just an expensive hobby. And one of the things that has the most expense as a one-time well-exp expense is your dive computer. It's essentially a giant watch that gives you all the data you need for your dive. And I saw, I did not know this, but Apple has one coming out called the Oceanic Plus, which looks pretty awesome.

It's probably going to be a million dollars, but there's much more like affordable dive computers, slash watches available. And they're all going to basically tell you the same stuff, right? I hope so. I mean, they're going to tell you, you know, how deep you are, how deep it gets below you, how much air you've got in that tank, how cold or hot the water is, your decompression status. This is the water central. You know, like all of it, it just says chili, you know, all the stuff that you need to know about your ascension when you're going back up to the top is going to be there. And you know, as far as whether or not to invest is a purchase with all this stuff, it's

up to you. Like I would say go out and give it a shot. If you really, really love it, and it's the kind of thing where you're like, well, hey, I know every year we go to this island. It might be worth it to go ahead and invest in buying your own stuff. Probably not tanks and all that, but the mask and the snorkel and the fins and maybe a dive watch and stuff like that. Yeah, and the dive watch also, I mean, like if you're going on a dive that's, you know, led by somebody, that dive master is probably going to have the dive computer and you don't need your own, because the dive master is going to tell you where to go and when. But I mean, they're pretty slick. Apparently, they'll tell you to slow down if you're ascending too

fast, where to stop, when to stop, it's just, that's pretty neat. I can't imagine what they did before dive computers. It just must have been exponentially more dangerous than it is today with dive computers. I would imagine. And as far as investment goes, the same goes for your wet suit.

Even if it's, you know, if you're going down and even if the water, it's a hot day and the water feels warm It can, you know, the water's gonna get colder and you may want that wetsuit and you wetsuits are awkward and weird too So if you find it, if you find a good wetsuit that fits and you're gonna be doing in a lot maybe buy your wetsuit Yes, and I mean, or if you don't like putting your stuff and things that other people stuff has been in there Exactly because those are very tight fitting for a reason. You let a little water in there, and then your body warms the water, and the warm water keeps your body warm and return. They work really well. There's also the dry suit for water below 50 degrees, and you might say, well,

then when do you need a wet suit? Apparently, water's warm as 80 degrees Fahrenheit can give you hypothermia if you're in there long enough. Wow. Yeah. So even if the water feels warm and you get in, you still probably want a wet suit while you're scuba diving. We mentioned the rebreather earlier that was sort of invented early on by Lambert's and but then perfected later. But this is what you do if you don't,

well, for a few reasons, but one reason if you don't want those bubbles coming out, you can get a rebreather that is exactly what it sounds like. It's gonna capture that air that you're exhaling, scrub that CO2 off of it, and then add back in the oxygen to make it breathable air again. And the military uses these. If you're a underwater photographer,

you might want to use these. And it allows you to dive longer. And, you know, if you want to stay down there for a while, re-brither might be for you. Yeah, apparently the record of staying down using a re-brither is 145 hours. Whoa. Hi, guy name Saddam Al-Kalini.

Yeah, pretty impressive. So I say we take our second break and come back and talk a little bit more about Scuba. Hello, I'm Chelsea Paredi. Do you feel chronic existential dread but love talking about delicious snacks? Call me! My podcast is relaunching! Subscribe and treat yourself to sound effects like this. And this!

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From Wall Street to Main Street and from Hollywood to Washington, the news is filled with decisions, turning points, deals, and collisions. I'm Tim O'Brien, the senior executive editor for Bloomberg Opinion, and I'm your host for Crash Course, a weekly podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. Every week on Crash Course, all bring listeners directly into the arenas where epic upheavals occur.

And I'm going to explore the lessons we can learn when creativity and ambition collide with competition and power. Each Tuesday, I'll talk to Bloomberg reporters around the world world as well as experts and big names in the news. Together we'll explore business, political and social disruptions and what we can learn from them. I'm Tim O'Brien, host of Crash Course, a new weekly podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. Listen to Crash Course every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay Chuck, so if you are going to go scuba diving and you don't have a certification, you go get in the water, the scuba police will probably arrest you no matter where you are

in the world. True or false? That's false and it kind of surprised me that there are no laws per se. Oh no, per se. There are no laws that you have to have a license. It's just sort of one of those things where A, it's really, really, really, really smart to do that so you know what you're doing safely.

And B, I would dare say almost any dive outfit in the world will require that you have that. Maybe there's some super janky ones. And I don't know if I'd get on one of those boats if they're like, nah, you don't need a card. Who cares? I wouldn't go with that. So they're going to ask you for your card because they're a risk. Even to fill up your tank.

If you show up, they'll ask to see your certification, your card. Oh, so you don't just run off and then, you know, do your own solo dive? I guess, I guess I think it's just like they just want to make sure that nobody who isn't trained is scuba diving and that's a good way to do it. Yeah. So if you want to get certified, there's a few ways to do it. One of the most popular ways to do it is it's called Discover Scuba. And it's a very shortened abbreviated version of the certification process where you go tell like a resort and you take like a less than an hour of classroom time, you go into the pool, you do a test dive, and then you go down to the beach and get in the water and

scuba around. It's probably where other people are snorkeling. It's very low risk, and you're not fully certified after that. But it's enough for you to go enjoy scuba on vacation without having to go get certified first. Yeah, you're not gonna be super deep. You're probably not gonna be out with like a good coral reef or anything either. You never know.

I guess you never, it depends on where it is, but you know, we run a boat for, you know, 12, 13 minutes, like kind of hauling out into the ocean to get to this one. Neat. Or are they right off the beach sometimes? Sometimes, yeah. They can be. What do I know?

I mean, that surfers will get tangled up in coral sometimes. It can be a real hazard. Well, those are deep water surfers. tangled up in coral sometimes. It can be a real hazard. Well, those are deep water surfers. So that's the most basic way to get certified. And again, you're not actually certified. The basic certification, the open water certification, usually takes a few days to complete, at least just even the first part. There's classroom time they call it theoretical, where you're learning the thing, the guy who I took lessons from said that you spend the first hour learning

how to scuba dive and the rest of the time learning how to stay alive while you scuba dive. Because it's actually not that hard to scuba dive. A lot of it requires practice like inflating your BCD and achieving neutral buoyancy. But it's really just, it's not hard to understand. It's hard to remember what to do when you're panicking underwater so that you don't do the wrong thing. And that's really the bulk of the classroom time. Yeah, it's going to cost you. It depends, but it's generally around 500 bucks.

You, again, you can do it whenever you want. If you want to go down on your vacation and spend time doing this, you can do that. Sure. But you're on vacation. It's probably smart to go ahead and get it done before you get down there. So you can just hit the water and in every state in the country, like the least water-like state in the country has scuba classes you can take. Yeah, because again, you can be certified in like a quarry and basically any state has at least

a flooded quarry, if not a lake, you could be certified in for open water. You only have to be 10 years old. There's no maximum age, but this is really important. If you have a pre-existing condition, you want to talk to your doctor about whether or not you should scuba dive. Because again, you are exerting yourself way more than you think you're going to, and if you say have a heart condition or something like that, it can actually trigger a heart attack in you. And even without the exertion, just the difference in atmospheric pressure on your insides can accidentally trigger

a heart attack in you too. So it's definitely not something that you want to just take lightly if you have a preexisting condition. No, I can't imagine any more terrifying than cardiac arrest under the ocean. That's pretty bad for sure. Yeah, I already got it in the ocean,

you're not under the ocean. Under the sea. So you have to know how to swim though. I mean, I think that's a given, but we should say it. You're going to be certified for life, which is kind of cool. You're going to get your little card for you to miss place. And generally these days, you can have that stuff online on apps and things like that through Paddy P.A.D.I. professional association of diving instructors. That's kind of the big daddy The big patty rather

but there's also In a UI now a the National Association of underwater instructors and also SSI scuba schools international and they can all certify you but like I said patty sort of the biggest one and you're gonna spend a lot of time early on with this course learning the stuff like you talked about like most of this is done you can do online at your house and over the course of you know ten hours, learn all the stuff, learn the hand signals, learn the terminology, learn the equipment and all the basics that don't involve actually getting in the water. Yes, but if you have the time and the where with all the go, take classroom instruction

for the first part, like in the classroom, you should take that opportunity because you will be hanging around the local scuba community that's you'll be immersed in it rather than showing up the first time for your what's called your confined water dive which is essentially where you put all the stuff you learned in the classroom to use in a swimming pool in the back of the the scuba shop. So you'll know them and they can say go Josh you got this bro. Exactly. If they don't know you, they'll be like, you probably have this.

We can't really say either way. Yeah, I have no emotional attachment to you though. So either fail or pass, I don't care. So I told you early on that having like just even a little bit of water over your head while you're breathing under water is amazing. And that's your first experience and that confined water dive in the swimming pool. It's amazing. It's also kind of boring because they're like,

what does this hand signal mean? Or show me how you can inflate or deflate your BCD, that kind of stuff. You're just showing that you know what to do as a novice. And then after that, if you pass that part, you go do your open water dives, which is the real deal. Yeah. And like you said, at the very beginning, you need to get four to six of those under your belt, depending on the certification program. You've only done the one,

but they don't have to be in the ocean. You don't have to wait till you go to the Bahamas or whatever. You can do that at a nearby lake or that, what do you keep talking about? Reservoir? Quarry? The Quarry's. You can do it there if, you know, that they have it set up there. And basically, you're just going to practice with someone there learning how to get that ear pressure equalized. And like you said, the buoyancy and just kind of getting it all down Pat, because what you're really looking to do when you finally go out to that coral reef

is not be hassled and feel very comfortable and at ease and know what you're doing. Yeah, and a lot of people do the classroom and the confined water dive at home and then go do their open water dives on vacation. So you can start at the coral reef if you want, but what you're saying makes a lot of sense as well too, for sure. There's a big question about all this. And from what I read,

the certifying companies or agencies or whatever they're called, the bodies, they don't like to talk about the inherent risks of scuba. Like they acknowledge it is a risky activity. It's riskier than staying at home knitting. But it's probably even riskier than is generally thought of. It's a dangerous thing to do. And you should know that going into it for sure.

Yeah. I mean, not to scare anyone off. Yeah, I mean not to scare anyone on. Oh, I'm trying to scare people off. Dangerous relative term, it's a relative term, but about 100 people in North America die annually scuba diving compared to 46 people last ski season in the US, but there are a lot more skiers and scuba divers. So that's about 100, I'm sorry, another 100 internationally scuba diving.

So that's a fatality every 200,000 dives compared to a fatality per 1 million skiers. But a scarier way to look at it is that fatality rate is 3.4 to 4.2 per 100,000 divers, because many divers go on more than one dive a year. Yeah. So, I mean, that's a low number to me still, but like I said, everyone has their own risk tolerance.

It is. Apparently, if you go a scuba diving and you aren't alone, you're with somebody who knows what they're doing and that person that's taking you, the dive master, is not a risk taker, you're probably going to be totally fine. It's the foolishness is what skews those numbers because something like 40% of scuba fatalities came after a diver got separated from their buddy. In an additional 14% came from people who were on solo diets. They purposely didn't go with anybody.

They just went and scuba died by themselves. That is a very dumb, reckless thing to do. Going diving. 54%. Yeah, 54% was, these people didn't have a buddy with them. So if you have a buddy with you, scuba diving, which they say you always should have, like that just completely changes your risk exposure, just based on those statistics.

And they don't even have to be your buddy. No, they're just called that. You can really dislike each other as long as they don't want to actively harm you, you're probably going to be safe with them. I mean, I would want someone to like me at least. They don't, we have to be best friends, but. At least pretend, right?

Yeah, like, I want them, I want to know that they care about me. Well, okay, all right. That's a lot to ask. Okay. You got anything else? I do have one more thing before we go. I know we've gone really, really long.

But one of the things that has a common cause of death or at least injury is something you wouldn't think of. If you're panicking and you like say your air runs out, you're triggered, you start swimming upward. First of all, you can get the bends, but you're probably holding your breath because you're under water. That's what your body and your brain tells you to do. That's a terrible thing to do

because as you get closer to the surface, your lungs are filled with air, and the air is now expanding beyond the capacity of your lungs. So you can pop your lungs. You can also create bubbles that go into your arteries and create embolisms. And it's just a bad jam. So there's actually something called the CISA, which is a controlled emergency swimming

ascent where you basically swim upward. Slowly as your panic mind can do while you're exhaling the whole way so that when you reach the surface you don't have a long full of air. Pretty neat. Pretty neat. Pretty neat. Babies got the bins. That's a great album name.

No, thank radio head. Yeah, babies got the bins. It was the EP that followed OK computer. No, the bins was there full length LP. I know, this is the EP that they were testing all the material out on. Oh, OK, I got you. So I just couldn't figure out if you knew it was an actual song. I did, but I'd forgotten when I was making the joke.

So for all intents and purposes, I didn't know. Right. You got anything else? Just one more radio head test. Let's hear it. No, I got nothing else. OK, that means then it's time for listener mail. BELL RINGS Let's hear it. No, I got nothing else. Okay, that means then it's time for listener mail. Just a couple of kombucha corrections for us.

Oh boy. This is someone named Frederick Overby Peterson. Overby. Overby? Mm-hmm. Okay. How do you know that? Because there's a really great reporter named Peter Overby,

and I think there's also, I think, his brother Dennis Overby maybe, and they spell it that way. Be Whitey, okay. Well, and also probably so people don't say overby. You're right. I'm sure kids say it anyway, but you know. I'm sure they do. So, Frederick, Bruce Kambucha for friends and family, I wanted to share a few things that we got wrong but very sweetly Frederick just says are worth adding.

You don't need a scoby to start guys. Store-bought kombucha is actually enough. If you brew your sweet tea and let it cool down and then add a little bit of store-bought kombucha drink to the tea, the kombucha you add will start eating the sugar and form a scobey seemingly from nowhere. So nice because it makes it super easy to get started and you don't have to seek out that scobey from your neighborhood social media page. That's pretty cool. And not all kombucha is related unfortunately. As beautiful as it might have been guys they are not a Scobie's form when making some kinds of vinegar when making homemade apple cider vinegar, for example, a Scobie can form on the top. I never managed to make my own Scobie from scratch, but I've seen it in several places,

and many guides on how to do it. But it's not as easy as making kombucha. And that is Frederick Overbe Peterson. Thanks a lot, Frederick. First of all, great name. Very stately. Secondly, thank you for all the information that was great info to you.

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