Stuff You Should Know - Selects: How Dog Shows Work

Episode Date: May 21, 2023

You know those shows where people wearing sensible shoes jog dogs around in circles? They actually represent the pinnacle of a long and complex path to glory for dogs and their owners. Join Chuck and Josh as they peek inside the American dog show in this classic episode.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on iHeart. I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions like, can we create new senses for humans? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Queen Charlotte, the official podcast, we're stepping behind the scenes and the drawing boards of this team to experience the life breathed into the Bridgerton prequel. Listen to the Leap's executive producer and series director, Tom Verica, took to capture the feeling that puts

that lump in your throat. And you've got to catch creator Shonda Rhimes. She's dropping gems, diamonds, and mics. You can listen to Queen Charlotte, the official podcast every Thursday on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you listen to your favorite shows. Hey everybody, it's Josh and for this week's Select, I've chosen our 2012 episode on dog shows. You know, I've always wondered what the deal is with dog shows. How do you compare a poodle to a pecanese to a parfra geffen? I made that last one up. Regardless, it turns out there's a whole fascinating world going on beneath the surface of dog shows. And if you just sit back and enjoy the sep, you'll learn all about it. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.

Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as always is Charles W. Chuck Bryant. And that makes this Stuff You Should Know the podcast. Indeed. About dogs. My favorite topic. Yeah, that's one of them. What else? I don't know, dogs. I'm one of those people that like dogs more than many humans. Sure. So, uh, as you know. And so, you know, although dog shows, I'm not real big on. I love watching dog shows. Yeah, I just, I've never gotten into them. I know there's criticism, there's controversy, but I don't care about that. I just, I'm kind of bored watching them. I never get bored. It's almost like watching a fractal screensaver or something. It sucks me into that level of like just zoned altitude.

Is it point, uh, is it appointment television for you? Like, do you make a point every February? February something, I think? I think last year it was January. Valentine's Day. Yeah, okay. It's early February. Yeah. Last year, when a little, uh, Pekingese one in Maliki. I think I remember seeing that dog. Look at that dog. It's face is mushed. It's beyond cute. Look at that hair. So, apparently, um, if you want to blow up the Twitterverse with angry tweets, you can, um, talk politics. Yeah. You can talk religion or you can hold the Westminster dog show and select the best in show. People get pretty upset. Man, people went crazy last year. So like, um,

what, like you commenting or just in the Twitter universe? People on Twitter. Okay. Yeah. No, I'm just a fan. I don't, I don't, I didn't live tweeted during the show. No, no, no. Okay. Um, but I live tweet very infrequently. It's, it's tough on the thumbs. Sure. Um, but so Maliki, this little cute four year old Pekingese, um, one best in show and, um, people were really mad. They called it, um, a mop, cousin it, uh, Geraldo Rivera's mustache, a wookie, snooky for some reason, maybe just because it rhymes with wookie and that's what they were going for. Yeah. They just been watching Jersey Shore. Who knows? That's silly. Um, but Maliki is no slouch. Um, it had won 114 best in show awards. Wow. Only four years old. So this thing's been mopping up the competition.

Oh man. I just made myself shiver. Yeah. But people went crazy. They, they, they, one guy said, he was a fan of the, um, Dalmatian. He said, I'm done with these dog shows. And I think that happens every year because until the next dog show. Exactly. Yeah. There's a lot of people who feel very passionately about dog shows. There's plenty of people like me who love to just zone out and watch them. Sure. Um, and then, you know, there's people who just don't know anything about them. And that's what we're here for today, to explain everything there is to know about how dog shows work. That's right. And this will either be really interesting to you or you may just zone out like Josh does watching the Westminster show. You know, though, um, I don't think we've ever

released an uninteresting episode. Maybe they have uninteresting titles, but you go on and you listen to it. It will interest you. I defy you right now. Stuff you should know listeners who haven't listened to every single episode. So we'll call you the 28%. Yeah. Um, to go out and find an episode that sounds boring in the title that you've not heard and listen to it. And I guarantee you, you will find it interesting. It's the, it's just that thing. Yeah. One comes to mind. College football rankings. Interesting to me, but boy, our listeners are not into college football. But was it for the most part? Boring? Was it really not interesting? There's nothing interesting in there. I think if you're not into sports at all, then it was probably really boring.

Gotcha. But, um, I'll avoid that one where the guarantee is void. But hey, if you're into sports, you'll love it. No, I think on the other end, if you're into sports, it was like, well, you guys messed this up or you forgot this. Oh, and hey, by the way, congratulations. We are now an award winning podcast. We got a stitchy. Is that what they're called? That's what I made up. Mark Maron had to call our names. He hosted the Stitcher Awards last night. Oh, really? Yeah. He won on himself for a best episode. Yeah. We were nominated for that too. For one that I didn't think was like, 10 accidental interventions. Yeah. I mean, that was okay, but I would have picked a different best episode. I think it was the sacrum bit that really led us into that. Can you see?

Sure. On the toast? Yeah. Okay. So anyway, dog shows. Yeah. Conformation shows, not Firmation, C-O-N-F-O-R, are what we're going to talk about for most of the show. And that is purebred dogs competing against other purebred dogs almost exclusively based on physical attributes. Yeah. That's the Westminster dog show that you see every year at Madison Square Garden. Yes. It's just, yeah, what the dog looks like. And basically, it's appearance, it's body structure. And then to a lesser extent, it's... Dude. Yeah, it's attitude. It's character. Because that also, what they're trying to do here, if you've ever watched a part of this, and I love that this... Who wrote this one? Jane McGrath. Oh, Jane. I remember her.

She wrote that, have you ever been channel surfing and come across one? I feel like a lot of people, that is their entrance into the dog show world, is they're flipping it around in February and they go, oh yeah, that thing. Right. Where the Christopher Guest movie mocked. I'll watch a few minutes of that. And I've done that. And I've always been like, I don't get it. How are they judging these other dogs against each other? It's a very good question. And we're here to tell you how. Yeah. Because, you know, this little Pekingese went up against things like Great Danes and Dalmatians and Dobermans and all that. And it still beat them all. And the way it did that is how they judge any kind of confirmation show. They judge the dog

by the standards of its breed. And then the dog that most closely fits those idealized standards wins. These very specific registered, I'm going to say registered standards. Yeah. So let me give you an example. I was looking this up. And the AKC has developed these standards from information taken from breeders. That's right. And for example, the Lakeland Terrier, one of the standards is its attitude. And the Lakeland Terrier has quote, a bold, gay, and friendly with a confident cock of the walk attitude. So this is the kind of thing that the AKC sits around us. Yeah, basically. I love that. In England, they have different standards. I see American Kennel Club and they have a different show called Krust, C-R-U-F-T-S.

And theirs is a little bit different, but we'll get to that later. Yeah, we'll talk about that in a little bit. For the most part, we're focused on Westminster and the AKC. So in addition to attitude, character traits, there's all those physical traits that the AKC has maintained on each breed. So for example, balance and not how well the dog stands up, although the gate is important. Yeah, if you talk like falls over, that's probably a bad sign. But yeah, it's not going to win this year. Balance is what we would call symmetry for humans. It's the overall proportions of its shape and size. Yeah, like that Scottish Terrier is really pretty, except boy, look at those ears. Look at the size of his butt. Yeah, you're out. Sorry, Scotty. Weight, size, eyes, and

again, eyes is size and shape and color. If you got that one wonky eye, forget about it. Unless you're an Australian shepherd. Yeah, are they supposed to have one? I think they're supposed to have a blue and a brown. A blue and a brown? Everyone I've seen has. Yeah. But what does the AKC say? I don't know. They don't care what slubs like you and I think. The head shape? Of course, ears, muzzle, whiskers? Thickness of whiskers is an important one. Oh, really? Yeah, I would think that'd be an indicator of poor health. What, if they had bad whiskers? Thin whiskers, brittle whiskers. I think you want nice stout whiskers, like a centimeter thick each. Okay. That's probably the standard for any breed. This is the JKC. Yeah. Teeth, you always see them checking out the

teeth. You don't want any kind of weird scissor bite or I guess certain breeds have the underbite. Yeah, a lot of them do the breaky old carty. Yeah, our own Jerry's dog, Charlie, I recently learned, has a bit of a little underbite and sometimes the lip will get hung and the little bottom teeth are just kind of jetted out there. That's very cute. It's very cute. You want to go over and adjust the lip. Say, here you go. Yeah, I like dogs that have teeth sticking like shizus. Yeah, boxers too, right? Boxers, pugs, pecanis. Oh, did that one? Yeah, they all have that. It's like breaky old carty. It's like anything with a smushed face usually has an underbite as well. Teeth, all right, we just said teeth tail, I mean, shoulders and these dudes are feeling,

these judges are feeling these dogs as well, like muscle and bone. They're trying to get under the fur to judge these things. One of the big things your dog has to learn very early on is to let strangers feel them up in all sorts of uncomfortable places. Yeah, you don't want your dog snapping at this guy when he fondles your dog. If your dog snaps at the judge and then falls over, just go home. It's all over. What did they say in Best in Show? When the dog broke his gate, the one guy, so he might as well just taken a dump right there on the floor or something. Yeah, Michael McKean said that thing. He's awesome. And then of course, there's coat, length and texture and color and very much like thoroughbred horses, there's accepted colors

for each breed. Yeah. You got a dog that's blue and it's supposed to be a golden retriever. You got problems. Yeah, if you got a blue retriever, you have many problems. Although you could probably make some money taking it around the country, like in an old timey circus. Where you can't make money is by winning the Westminster Dog Show. Yeah, that's a good point. You would think that these things offer like big cash prizes, but they don't. It is really about prestige and being one of those dog show people, like wearing that ribbon and getting that trophy. Sure, wearing sensible shoes and learning to walk very fast as a leash. Because your gate matters as a human. Right. So you put all this together, right?

And these judges know the standards for the breeds. And when they're looking at these dogs, they're saying they're matching it up to their mental catalog that they have. And then the ones that most closely match the idealized version of the breed, like we said, wins. And that's how you get the little, you know, lasso ops or the picanese that can beat out like a Great Dane or a German Shepherd or something like that. That's how they compare them. Yeah. And that's only been going on since, I say only since 1907. Previous to that, and this has been going on at Madison Square Garden in a New York City since 1877. Yeah, it's old timey. They didn't have a Best in Show at all until 1907 because they said, you know, how do we codify this?

Right. And they did. They figured it out. And it's really, Jane says, it sounds confusing, but once I spell it out, it's simple, but it's still a little confusing. Yeah, it took me a couple of times to figure this out. There's just a lot of steps. She does a great job of explaining it. It's just, there's a lot to it. So you want to explain this. So the Westminster dog show, we should say, is the pinnacle, the peak in the United States for any dog. But there's a long road ahead of it. Like we said, Maliki, the winner of the 2012 show, had 114 Best in Shows under its belt. Yeah. And Jane called it the Super Bowl. I would say it's more like an All-Star game if the All-Star game counted for something. Very picky. You know, because it's all these

All-Stars from the different breeds, from all these shows, making this final All-Star game. It's like the Little League World Series for dogs. Great. It's like the chess. It's like Bobby, what's his face? Fisher. Fisher almost said Bobby Riggs. And you guys know that guy's story? Who, Bobby Riggs? Bobby Fisher. Oh yeah, that's sad. Did you ever see searching for Bobby Fisher? I did. It was a great movie. Years back. And then, you know, of course, that song One Night in Bangkok, it's from a Broadway show. And I can't remember what the Broadway show is, but it was based on Bobby Fisher and his life. And now he moved to Asia and he's devolved into madness. That song is about Bobby Fisher. And that was from a Broadway show?

As far as I know, yes. And then the pop version was just re-recorded by whoever that was. Possibly by the original composers, but for the radio. I thought One Night in Bangkok was about a... You would think? Never mind. I was going to bring up... All you had to do was just end there. Yeah. Who's Gary Glitter? That's who I was thinking. Yeah, I don't think so. I think he got in trouble in Bangkok, if you know what I mean. He did and he recently got in trouble with the whole Jimmy Saville. Oh yeah, he was part of that too. Apparently so. Gross. Man, what a sidetrack that was. So, okay. To be a champion, right? This is what a dog aims for, is to be a champion. That's right. Because if you're a champion, you get to add CH as a prefix to your name.

Yeah, like I would be CH, then Chuck, if I were a champion dog. Yeah, you'd be Chachuk. All right, so let's walk everyone through this, right? Yeah. All right, to be a champion, you got to get... Compile a certain number of points and you earn these points at different dog show competitions around the country that are not the Westminster show. Yeah, and from different judges. Right. You got to get at least 15 points from three different judges or at least two major wins from separate judges and a major win is one where you can earn three, four, five points and that's when you can get the CH as a champion. Just for that little show though, right? Or no, for the compilation of those shows. Yeah, yeah. Right.

Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on iHeart. I'm a neuroscientist and an author at Stanford University and I've spent my career exploring the three pound universe in our heads. On my new podcast, I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions so we can better understand our lives and our realities. Like, does time really run in slow motion when you're in a car accident? Or can we create new senses for humans? Or what does dreaming have to do with the rotation of the planet? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception and your reality. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or

wherever you get your podcasts. Last season, millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception. I'm Andrea Gunning and now we're sharing an all new story of Betrayal. Ashley Lytton was helping her husband set up a business Venmo account when she discovered a terrible secret. I scrolled down and that's when I saw a hidden folder and I opened it. What the hell did I just see? I was scared that he was coming home. What Ashley discovered that day was a secret so dark she feared for her life. She was like, oh my god, I got to get out of the house. He's going to find out that I've seen this. He's going to come kill me. Listen to season two of Betrayal on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get

your podcasts. If you're looking for someone to help you unpack Queen Charlotte a Bridgerton story, you're in the right place. It's me, Gabby Collins. Come with me because on Queen Charlotte, the official podcast, we're stepping behind the scenes and the drawing boards of this team to experience the life breathed into the Bridgerton prequel. Listen to the leaps executive producer and series director Tom Verica took to capture the feeling that's put that lump in your throat. And you've got to catch creator Shonda Rhimes. She's dropping gems, diamonds, and mics. On this podcast, we're going beyond the basic line of questioning and getting to the heart of the show, all while appreciating the contributions of the show's creative teams and remarkable cast.

Go inside each episode of Queen Charlotte a Bridgerton story with the creatives, the cast, and creator Shonda Rhimes leading the way. Listen to Queen Charlotte, the official podcast, Thursdays on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or anywhere you get your podcasts. So when you get this, when you get to become a champion, when you have, I think it's 15 points and two major wins from separate judges. Yes, you're right. You get to this point also, like you said, it's not Westminster, it's these little specialty shows. Sure. And I don't mean little diminished, I'm just saying compared to Westminster, they're much smaller. It's not an ESPN. And there's specialty shows, well, it's on the Ocho, I'll bet. These specialty shows are

based on specific breeds. Right. So you'll go to like the Chihuahua show or the Lake Lanterrier show. And the dogs are separated between male and female. And we can say the B word in this one because that's what it's called. That's my new band name, by the way. What? Winner's bitch. Okay. And the males and the females are then separated into six different classes. Yes. You've got the puppy class, the 12 to 18 month old class, novice. So those are dogs that are six months or older that haven't won any points yet, haven't won any first place prizes. So they can be a little older, but they're still rookies as far as the competition stage goes. Right. And six months is the minimum age to compete in an AKC show.

Yeah, below that you're just, there's no way. Yeah, they're too dumb. Too unpredictable. Bread by Exhibitor is a class of dogs where the person showing the dog is also the breeder. And the breeder, by the way, is the owner of the dog's mother. Right. There's American Bread, which is any dog born in the US. Sure. USA. And then there's Open. The Open class is open to any dog. And this is the only class that any dog that's already become a champion can compete in in the specialty show. Oh, they are? Yeah, that's the only class open to them. Because they could just mop up all the other classes. They have to face any takers in the Open class. That's a good way to put it. So they divide it up by male and female.

The males go first and they inspect all the males as they do at any of the shows. You know what that means. Fondling. You give them the award ribbons, first through fourth place. And you don't get any points at this point, though. The first place winners of the male class have to compete for the winner's dog. The female's class compete for winner's bitch. Man. You want to say it? I've said it twice now. I don't want to say it. I find it difficult to say. Oh, really? It's just the connotations. Sure. You know, I've never used that word in, like, anger about someone. It's a very rough, terrible word. Yeah. And I don't think that makes me a good person or anything, but there's just a couple of things that, like, I wouldn't call

my worst enemy, and that's one of them. Gotcha. I don't have any enemies. What am I talking about? So you've got the winner's dog and the winner's bitch. Yep. And this is the point where they start winning awards. Winning points. Points, I mean. I'm sorry. So this is all these different dogs have been weeded out by the different classes. And then you've got the out of all these six classes of the male cat, male version and the female version. You have winners, right? And then there's, so this is where the points start being awarded. Then there's chances for more points in the same show. Any champion can come along and take the winners on for best in show or best in breed. Yes. And you can compile extra points depending on how many dogs they beat out. So if

you beat out a bunch of more dogs, you can earn up to five points. Right. Five's the most. And remember a major win is three, four or five points in a win. Yes. Okay. So you can win some by being the winner's dog or the winner's bitch. You can, the champions can take those guys on in the best of breed. Yep. And then between those two, the winner's bitch and the winner's dog, there's another walk off, I guess. Yeah. And they can win points whoever be two. And then there's the best of opposite sex. Yeah. That was the best of winners. Right. And then the best of opposite sex, which it says the best dog of the opposite sex of the best of breed. Yes. So whichever dog, whether it's the winner's dog, the winner's bitch or any champion that took them on in one, the best of

breed. So that's a male that wins. Right. And there's another category for the winners that's females or vice versa, the best of opposite sex. Basically it's like we got all these points sitting around. Let's get rid of some. Good point. Or it's like, did you ever go to a camp and like run a race, but you ran terribly, but you still got a ribbon that just said participant? Oh yeah. Maybe it's like that. That's like every race I ever ran. That same here. Basically. I had a trophy once that just, it was a sad face. Really? Yeah. There's a baseball back just kind of sitting at the foot of the kid with his head hung down frowning. Yeah. I played church sports, so we didn't, they didn't do a lot of trophies even in church leagues. Like the ultimate victor

of the church league got a trophy, but they weren't big on like ribbons and trophies. The ultimate victor of the church league I would imagine is Jesus. Salvation. Yeah. We all won. Okay. So then you've got your best of breed winner and then that dog can then advance to a group show where all these best of breed winners compete, aka or AKC, Westminster. Right. So to make that point, when you are at a specialty show and you're aiming for Westminster, which I imagine every dog there is, you want to win best of breed. You can win points and become a champion through winning other stuff like best of opposite sex, best of winners, winner's dog, winner's bitch, right? Yes. But to move on to the next level, you have to win best of breed of that

show and you have to win a bunch, I imagine. That's right. And at this point, half of our listeners are delighted and half their eyes are rolling back into their head. Man, we just explain the heck out of that. I agree. So we're at Best in Show. Yeah. The movie. That's such a good movie. If you've not seen Best in Show, the Christopher Guest film, just go out and see it right now. Yeah. Just stop. I think it's streaming right now. Oh, I'm sure it is. Yeah, it's really good. It's hard to pick out a favorite part of that movie, but the scene that always pops up to me, it's when Parker Posey is trying to get a replacement. Was it a bee? It was a little bee stuffed animal. Yeah. She can't find it. Yeah. And the guy's trying to help her. He's like,

well, this is yellow and black and it was like a parrot or something. I can't remember it all, but she's just like my hero. Yeah, she's great. She's very good. All right. So a little bit on the AKC. There are several hundred dog breeds in the world, but the AKC only recognizes a little over 150. 150. That's it. And they separate those into groups and... Yeah, the AKC loves categorizing. Putting dogs into categories and breaking them down and then putting them in a new categories. Yeah. And that's what they do here. And the poor dogs are just like, what? Can I have them for a treat? Can I get a begging strip or what? Squirrel. Squirrel. Okay. Sporting dogs is one. Obviously, these are dogs that are good for hunting,

pointers, retrievers, setters and spaniels. Yeah. Those are good dogs. Great dogs. Hounds, beagles, bloodhounds, doxons. I like hounds except for the baying, the howling. Are they howling? Oh my God. Yeah. A beagle. Have you never heard like a beagle? No, I've never had a beagle or been around beagles that much. Oh, wow. They are loud and insistent. Really? Yeah. Super cute puppies though. Possibly the cutest puppies of any breed, I think. Yeah. Those and, oh man, what's the one I'm thinking of? The little puffballs. It's an Asian dog. The little puffballs. Maltese? No. Is it a little dog in the end? Yeah. But the puppies are little puffballs and they stay puffballs. Oh, a Pomeranian? Yes. Yeah. Those are pretty

cute puppies. Yeah, they don't even look real. It looks like if you squeeze them, it should make a little noise. Right. They do. They do. Yeah, but you don't want to do that. Okay. Working dogs. We're talking Great Danes, Rottweilers, St. Bernard's, dogs who are hearty and they even, you know, are used as working dogs, like search and rescue, stuff like that. Right. And then there's Terriers that chase rats. Did they? Maybe even fight Cobra or two. Those are little schnauzers. Scottish Terriers, also known as Scotties. Bull Terriers, which you would recognize as Spuds McKenzie. Yeah. Man, those things are weird looking. My buddy Clay just got a giant schnauzer. They're big. Well, this thing is like six months

old and he's already as big as my biggest dog. Yeah. And he's like, just wait until you see, his name is Bro. He's like, what do you see, Bro, at the end of this? He's going to be enormous. How big is he expected to get weight-wise? I don't know, but really big. He's awesome. Very, very fun dog. Yeah. Just like, for a dog to be that young and that big, they don't have control of their limbs yet. So, Bro would just go running downstairs and just like face plant and then get up and, you know, with the happiest expression behind his little eyes that you can't see. There. What else? Toy dogs? Yeah. Chihuahuas, poodles, pugs, and how do you pronounce it? I always said shizu. Is it shizu? Shizu. Non-sporting dogs. I guess these are the intellects. This is a catch

all breed when you don't have unifying characteristics, which is kind of sad. The one unifying characteristic is these dogs don't play. They don't play. Bulldogs, Dalmatians, and the American Eskimo dog, which I've never heard of. Yeah. It's basically like, we don't know what to do with you guys, so we're going to put you in the non-sporting dog. And then two more. Herding dogs like Australian shepherds and miscellaneous. So, remember we said that the AKC likes to classify dogs. Yeah. And there's more breeds than it recognizes. This is a group that they, you can't win points. You can't win any major awards, I believe. But if there's a breed that's starting to get more attention and there's more people breeding it, it's like a part of the process

of becoming recognized. You start out in the miscellaneous group. So that's pre-recognition almost. Yeah. Cheese. Hey, man, these people are keeping track of like the dog's cocksuredness. I mean, they pay attention to details. All right. So the best of breeds in each of the group are going to compete in the group show. And then if you win that group show, then you compete in the ultimate. I think we skipped that part, which is the all breed show. And that's the all star game, the Super Bowl. That's Westminster. The chess match. Right. The Bobby Riggs versus Billy Jean King. That's when a judge goes through each of these groups and picks out the best. Yep. Right? Seven groups because the eighth can't win. Right. And they basically go through and

say, you're number one, you're number two, you're number three, you're number four. And all of a sudden that number one is the best in show. And the controversy erupts. Twitter goes crazy. I'm going to have to pay attention this year. It's fun to watch. Yeah. I've never watched it where I was like tense. Oh, sure. But you know, I've been like, oh, that's great. Or oh, really? That's not that good. I'm sure you find yourself rooting for certain dogs though. Yeah. Yeah. There's always a dog. There's always at least one if not several where you're just like, I like that dog right there. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about the criticism of dog shows. Yeah, because there's definitely plenty. Yeah. It's out there. One

of the problems that certain groups have is that when you're talking purebred dogs, you're talking about breeding. And I myself and many others are against dog breeding because there's plenty of dogs out there for the taking. Yeah. But they, they're mutts. So breeders basically breed these dogs to acquire these or to at least hold onto these attributes. Yeah. And that means in breeding sometimes and that means shorter life spans and disease and defects, birth defects. Yeah. Like Dalmatians tend to suffer from blindness and German shepherds suffer from hip dysplasia. Yeah. And these, these traits have become associated with the breed, these standards of the breed that the AKC maintains. Yeah. And it's kind of like, well, yeah, but if

you, if you want to have a dog that meets all these other criteria, it's also going to get dysplasia when it sticks. Yeah. And it's just part of inbreeding. It's narrowing of the gene pool. And I've definitely noticed, and this isn't 100% of course, but all the dogs and people I've known who had dogs throughout the years, I've noticed more purebred dogs dying younger than the mutts. Well, supposedly they have a weaker immune system. Like remember, I don't remember what episode it was, but we were talking about that experiment that people sent, people use scents to detect an immune system different from yours because when you put together your immune system and somebody else's immune system to reproduction, the kid should have a doubly great immune system.

Man, that was a long one. Remember that? Yeah, it was. I don't remember what episode it was. Smell maybe? Maybe so. Yeah. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on iHeart. I'm a neuroscientist and an author at Stanford University, and I've spent my career exploring the three pound universe in our heads. On my new podcast, I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions so we can better understand our lives and our realities. Like, does time really run in slow motion when you're in a car accident? Or can we create new senses for humans? Or what does dreaming have to do with the rotation of the planet?

So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last season, millions tuned into the Betrayal podcast to hear a shocking story of deception. I'm Andrea Gunning, and now we're sharing an all new story of Betrayal. Ashley Lytton was helping her husband set up a business Venmo account when she discovered a terrible secret. I scrolled down, and that's when I saw a hidden folder, and I opened it. What the hell did I just see? I was scared that he was coming home. What Ashley discovered that day was a secret so dark she feared for her life.

She was like, oh my god, I gotta get out of the house. He's gonna find out that I've seen this, he's gonna come kill me. Listen to season two of Betrayal on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're looking for someone to help you unpack Queen Charlotte a Bridgerton story, you're in the right place. It's me, Gabby Collins. Come with me, because on Queen Charlotte, the official podcast, we're stepping behind the scenes and the drawing boards of this team. To experience the life breathed into the Bridgerton prequel, listen to the leaps executive producer and series director Tom Verica took to capture the feeling that's put that lump in your

throat, and you've got to catch creator Shonda Rhimes. She's dropping gems, diamonds, and mics. On this podcast, we're going beyond the basic line of questioning and getting to the heart of the show, all while appreciating the contributions of the show's creative teams and remarkable cast. Go inside each episode of Queen Charlotte a Bridgerton story with the creatives, the cast, and creator Shonda Rhimes leading the way. Listen to Queen Charlotte, the official podcast Thursdays on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or anywhere you get your podcasts. So remember a few minutes ago, we were talking about the miscellaneous category can eventually earn you status as an officially recognized breed. The American Border Collie Association,

the ABCA, really didn't want their dog to become recognized by the AKC because they thought that meant, well, once it's an official breed, then that means breeding will become more intense, and these dogs will suffer from all these things that we just told you about. Yeah, they specifically petitioned with the AKC and said, please don't recognize us. And the AKC said, we're going to recognize you. I don't think it was maliciously, but they're like, this is what we do, and we're going to recognize this dog as a breed. No, they were like, had you not asked, we wouldn't know, but you did. So sorry. And PETA has also filed an official objection against tail docking, which is when they

amputate the tail to see the little nub. Yeah, it's not just tails, the ears. Oh yeah, you're cropping. Yeah, there's a lot of breeds that have these unnatural attributes that you have to perform surgery on to get, which is counterintuitive because you're talking about the idealized version of a breed. Why would you have to take some sort of technological step to reach that ideal version? Like if it doesn't happen naturally, it seems really awful. Yeah, it does to me too. But I mean, I don't even declaw my cats. So, you know, that's the way to go. That's the way. But I've got crappler for my house. It's cat-scratched. But you know, Holly Fry of Popstuff, she was talking about how she lets her cats play on their

iPad. Oh, really? And I was like, you must have a serious scratch guard because there's like cat playing apps on iPad. Oh, wow. And she's like, I don't think we have a scratch guard. Well, when cats play around like that, they'll usually don't have the claws out. They're usually just pawing around. You would hope. But yeah, I wouldn't put one on my iPad. No way. I put on the little sticky things. They have like clear tapettes that you put on like your couch arm. Yeah. And those are unsightly and collect hair and dust and just one of the things. If you're an animal owner with five animals in your house, it's hard to not live with some hair. Do you have a Roomba? No. You should probably get a Roomba. It might change your life.

Yeah. I'm in love with my vacuum cleaner. So I feel like that would be cheating on Luxie. Nice. Yeah. Okay. That's it. There's no follow-up. So what else was there? Oh, Jonah Goldberg had some words about breeding, especially with the AKC. He compares it to eugenics. Yeah. In fact, he thought it spurred the eugenics movement. Yeah. And we were like, oh, wow, we have this really great dog and we should do this with humans. I'm tired of people with epilepsy. Let's just get rid of them. And of course, you can go back and read or listen to, is it legal to sterilize addicts? Yeah, that was a good one. Episode basically was all about eugenics. That's true. He also contends and not really contends.

It's pretty obvious that it's a beauty pageant. They're focusing on these physical attributes. And only the aesthetic matters in his opinion. And that's not something he says, you know what, if you want to judge a hunting dog, take it out hunting. Right. And see how it does there, because these dogs, these dogs have jobs. Most dogs do have a job of some sort. Right. And let's see how they do in their job. Yeah, like that's how you would truly appreciate a breed, not just its looks. And you mentioned UK's crufts. England's Kennel Club runs crufts. And they do have lots of agility and stuff like that. Apparently, they're criticized for going too far the other way that they need to bring back more confirmation, confirmation. Right.

But yeah, if you go to England and you're into dogs, you're going to be very surprised because their big show doesn't look anything like ours. Yeah, those are the, well, we'll get into agility trials, but is that what they have in there where you're running between the, you're bobbing and weaving and going through the tunnels and. Yeah, obedience stuff too. Yeah. And the AKC has these things that's just not part of the big one, the Westminster show. Right. But Chuck, you would also probably appreciate England's Kennel Club maybe more than the AKC because they have something called scruffs. Yeah, I want to see this televised. It's, it's basically the crufts for crossbreed dogs, non purebred dogs. And it's just adorable that they have this. And they welcome anything

pretty much. Yeah. I mean, obviously you have to have your dog trained. You can't just walk up off the street. But as far as breeds go, you can enter your dog. The criteria are pretty wide open. And they just look for good temperament, good health and good character, which I like. Yeah. So we talked about agility trials. These are sometimes separate competitions all together. Right. And then like you said, in England incorporated into the best in show. And that's where they're basically doing like a little obstacle course. Which is adorable. Off leash. I mean, did you see this picture? That's the cutest picture ever in this article, how dog shows work. Yeah. It's just a little terrier jumping over like a little post

and he's got this look on his face like, I'm going to do it. He is going to do it. He's got his tail up. Man, that's a cute picture. And then obedience trials are basically taking commands from the handler. Like, you know, you got to be listening. Some of the commands are just vocal. Some of them, you can't speak at all. And you're just using hand gestures. And they're just seeing how well trained your dog is. Right. Yeah. The dog can become the champion, which is the national obedience champion, which has got to be kind of a dubious honor among dogs. Like you're the most obedient dog in all the land. Yeah. It's kind of like Kurt Russell when he was like the star of Disney movies. It's like, yeah, you're a movie star, but you're also like this, you know, clean cut

teen idol. Oh, those are great. I remember those. But even he distanced himself later. He's like, no, I'm better than this. I'm Snake Plisken. Exactly. Yeah. Boy, I forgot about those early movies. Those were awesome. I was a big fan of those. Well, was it the kid with two white shoes or something like that? They were really like vanilla. Yeah, they were pretty vanilla. Yeah. So over the years, we have a few little stats. The breed that has won the most, the Fox Terrier 13 times, not bad. Yeah. The dog that has won the most was champion Warren Remedy, who was a Fox Terrier who won three times in a row in the early 1900s. So that's pretty good. Yeah. My favorite is the oldest dog to win, the eight-year-old Papillon, who won in 1999,

champion low-ticky supernatural being. And the youngest ever was a rough collie named Laund, loyalty of Belle Haven and won on its nine-month birthday in 1999. Nine months old. It's pretty young. Makes bro look like an idiot. Bro is an idiot. He's lovable though. I guess that's about it, right? Yeah. I'm going to watch this year. It's appointment TV for me now. Good. That is good. I think you'll like it. And then go on to Twitter and register your anger or your happiness at the winner. I will do so. Maybe I'll live tweet. Your thumbs are going to hurt. I got to get our Twitter login. I don't even know it. Well, you're the Twitter master. I just leave that to you. I will email it to you. Okay. And by the way, our Twitter handle is S-Y-S-K podcast. I need that

part. Okay. So Chuck, if anybody wants to learn more about Best in Show and dog shows and to see this adorable picture of this terrier jumping in mid-air. Man, it's a cute picture. You can type in dog shows in the search bar at HowStuffWorks.com. And since I said search bar in there, I imagine it's time for listener mail. But first, Chuck, I feel like we should wish everybody a happy new year. Yeah. I hope you had a great 2012. And if it wasn't great, here's to better days ahead. Very nice. Very nice, Chuck. And I want to wish a very, very happy birthday to my sweet and wonderful wife, Yumi. Happy birthday, babe. Happy birthday, Yumi. That's very sweet. Okay, listener mail, huh? Yes. Okay. All right, Josh, I'm going to call this crying during music. And this is from Angela

in Columbus, Ohio. I should say go, Buckeyes. My family. My family. I could also say go, Blue. Who's Blue? Michigan. Oh, tough words. All right, guys, listening to Chuck talk about his experience at Carnegie Hall made me want to share this story. I heard a story one day about a new musical based on a book, Wicked. And I know we all know this musical now about the Wizard of Oz. Yeah, yeah. I had a soundtrack for about a year before I saw it. And I found out there was a Broadway Across America tour coming to Columbus, Ohio. My husband and I bought tickets, went with a group of friends. I'd been listening to the soundtrack for about a year, as I said, so I was really excited. So I'm watching the show, really enjoying it, getting swept up in

the stage production and the acting. The music was better than I even thought it could be. And when they hit the main song Defying Gravity, sung by Edina Menzel on the soundtrack, that's when it happened. I had a Chuck moment broke down, sobbing like a little baby. I don't know if I call it a Chuck moment. I mean, I'm sensitive, but that's pretty hilarious. All right, I'm weepy. The song itself is incredibly moving overall. There's a point in the middle where there's a break from the action. Before she hits the third verse, she says a few lines, turns the last line into this incredibly cathartic note and takes off in flight. Sitting here, remember it, I'm actually choking up. And that's where I could no longer control

myself all through the third verse. I'm sobbing uncontrollably, loud, gasping sobs. Both my husband and my brother-in-law offered me comfort, but I could not control myself. I cried through the end of the song and the house lights were coming up for intermission. My husband gave me a hug, not really knowing why I was so moved. And I still can't say why. I was a mess and incredibly embarrassed, but it was a beautiful moment for this touching character who speaks to me. P.S. and this from Angela in Columbus. P.S. I feel a sense of strength and catharsis also currently while listening to Shake It Out by Florence and the Machine. Well, that was a specific email. Yeah. Thanks for sharing your story. What was that person's

name? Angela. Thanks a lot, Angela. We appreciate that. That's pretty cool. So what do you want to say? I don't know. Dog show stories? What do you think? No? Yeah. Sure. Dog show stories, it is. If you want to get in touch with us about your dog show story, you can tweet to us. Remember, it's SYSK Podcast. And of course, we're on Facebook, Facebook.com slash Stuff You Should Know. And you can send us a good old-fashioned email to StuffPodcast at iHeartRadio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts on my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called

Inner Cosmos on iHeart. I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions like, can we create new senses for humans? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Queen Charlotte, the official podcast, we're stepping behind the scenes and the drawing boards of this team to experience the life breathed into the Bridgerton prequel. Listen to the leaps executive producer and series director Tom Verica took to capture the feeling that puts that lump in your throat. And you've got to catch creator

Shonda Rhimes. She's dropping gems, diamonds, and mics. You can listen to Queen Charlotte, the official podcast every Thursday on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you listen to your favorite shows. Hey everybody, we are Ben Bowlin, Matt Frederick, and Noel Brown of Stuff They Don't Want You to Know, the podcast on iHeart Radio. We're hosting an informative discussion in iHeartland soon. Talking about our favorite teachers, the weird facts we learned in making the show, and how important it is to be curious about the world around us. Education is important, so join us as we chat all about it, straight from State Farm Park in iHeartland, for a limited time, so don't miss it. We're going all in, so head to iHeartRadio.com

slash iHeartland to check it out.