Stuff You Should Know - Short Stuff: Uncle Sam Wants YOU!

Episode Date: September 11, 2024

Who is Uncle Sam anyway? Was it a real person or just a marketing exercise? And why does he refuse to go away? Listen in to find out.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hey, and welcome to The Short Stuff. Josh, Chuck, Jerry, Dave, let's go! I could not, for the life of me, find out where we have talked about Uncle Sam before. And it had to be one of our videos. But I couldn't find it. I checked a million times over and it was not a short stuff. I couldn't find it anywhere. But I know for sure the only reason I know this is because we've talked about it. It had to be our Fourth of July special that we did with the Onion in the Daily Show.

That keeps coming back to haunt us, huh? Yeah. Because we had another one the other day that was, I think, in there. Yeah, I bet you it was. Yeah, it had to be, right? Yeah, but who cares? Let's tell the real story, Josh and Chuck style.

Yeah, we're gonna talk about Uncle Sam. If you don't know who Uncle Sam is, then by God, you're not much of an American. Yeah, I mean, how would you describe Uncle Sam? A cartoon, a drawing of a man. A stern man. It has become synonymous and a symbol of the United States of America, a logo almost. Yeah. If you've ever seen somebody wearing a red, white, and blue stove top hat with,

or a top hat with stars on it, that's an Uncle Sam hat. Yeah. You ever see somebody wearing an American flag suit? They're basically doing their best Uncle Sam. You ever seen anybody with a beard? They're pretending they're Uncle Sam. Yeah. If you've ever seen a picture of all those things put together and a guy pointing at you on a poster saying, I want you to do whatever, join the army or give money for

war bonds, that's Uncle Sam. Yeah. So our conception of Uncle Sam, the one you just described is thanks to a great illustrator who was working around the time America entered the First World War. His name, one of the great names of all time, James Montgomery Flag with two Gs. Love that guy's name. But he was an amazing illustrator and painter,

and he painted that iconic image of Uncle Sam looking out from the poster, pointing at you at you the viewer that I want you. I remember the Simpsons where it was like the immigration episode Homer put up a poster he asked Apu if he could put up a poster in his convenience store and it was Uncle Sam saying I want you out. Do you remember that one? Uh-uh. No? That's funny though. And Apu took the occasion to talk about

how much he loved America, and Homer goes, wow, you know what, Apu? I'm really gonna miss you. That's great. You should say it as Apu though, right? No, I should not. The funny thing about this poster that came around in 1917, and we'll get this is not the first incarnation of Uncle Sam, but it's the most famous that we know now.

But James Montgomery Flagg supposedly was inspired by a British minister of war, Lord Kitchener. But he used his own handsome face as the actual model. And if you look up a picture of James Montgomery Flagg, and you know, he put wrinkles, he was younger and a gray beard. But if you picture that guy with that gray beard and hair, it's Uncle Sam. Yeah, for sure. It's pretty neat.

Yeah, it was like there was a Lord Kitchener poster was essentially the exact same thing of drawing of Lord Kitchener looking out from the poster pointing at you, saying he wants you to sign up to help. And both of these posters were propaganda posters from World War I. The one that Flag designed of Uncle Sam had been printed four million times. Four million copies of a poster.

That Farrah Fawcett poster hadn't even been printed four million times. That's how successful this poster was, right? And this was all just before the war was over. So in about two years, it was printed four million times. The thing is, I'm sure there's people out there who are like, well, yeah, that's the origin of Uncle Sam. And friend, you'd be wrong.

Uncle Sam had been around for at least about 100 years by the time James Montgomery Flagg made his iconic poster. And I say we take a break, we come back and we talk about that very issue. If you want to know, then you're in luck. Just listen up to Josh and Chuck. Stuff you should know. For so many people living with an autoimmune condition, the emotional toll is as real as the physical symptoms. Starting this May, join host, Martín Hackett for Season 3 of Untold Stories, Life with

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For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Lonti marked the beginning of the end, sparking a chain of events that would ultimately dismantle the most powerful crime organization in American history. It sent the message to them that we can prosecute these people.

Discover how a group of young prosecutors took on the mafia, and with the help of law enforcement brought down its most powerful figures. These bosses on the commission had no idea what was coming their way from the federal government. From Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts, this is Law and Order, Criminal Justice System. Listen to Law and Order, Criminal Justice System on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Stuff you should know. All right. So the origins of Uncle Sam, there was a story that many people believe for a long time that it came about during the War of 1812 and that it was named such, or the character was named such, because of Uncle Sam Wilson, who was a meatpacker from New York who supplied beef, these big barrels of beef to the army for the War of 1812. They had U.S. stamps on them and they called those barrels of beef Uncle Sam's. That was published and republished many, many times starting in the New York Gazette in 1930,

leading to a congressional resolution in 1961 recognizing Sam Wilson. But that is not the origins of Uncle Sam, right? No. I mean, a lot of people think Sam Wilson was the guy who started it all. I mean, that story, everything comes together so close. Like he really was a real person. He really was working in the War of 1812. The Barrels of Meat really were stamped U.S.

But some really dedicated historians, one by the name of Don Hickey from Wayne State College, another one named Christopher Filippo, they both got to the bottom of this and found that very, very shortly before the Uncle Sam Wilson story could have happened, people were already using Uncle Sam as a way of depicting or talking about the United States of America as a whole. Exactly. They found some actual proof-proof and from an 1810 diary from a 16-year-old sailor on the USS Wasp, where he was seasick and not feeling so good. And he wrote, I swear that Uncle Sam, as they call him,

would certainly forever have lost the services of at least one sailor. And that was in 1810. So if he was using it in a diary entry in 1810, that means it was what I would consider probably fairly common usage at that point. Right, that guy almost certainly didn't make that up in that diary entry. Yeah. So yeah, the thing is, is even though Sam Wilson wasn't the actual direct inspiration for Uncle Sam, he certainly helped kind of popularize it. I think he probably, his association with it and the story that came from that, probably took it from what may have just been relegated to Navy lingo

that would have become archaic to now it has a story and it's spread from there. So even though he didn't inspire it, it's still like, yeah, Uncle Sam Wilson definitely had a huge role in the creation of the idea of Uncle Sam. Yeah, absolutely. In fact, there was a minister, I believe, at the real Sam Wilson's funeral,

he wrote a letter that said that he had often talked with Wilson, quote, about the circumstances which led to the singular transfer of his popular name to the United States. So it sounds like what that's saying is that Sam Wilson even knew that. Yes, for sure. And went along with it.

Right, he's like, yeah, yeah, it was all me. And he'd look furtively around. So there was another character that I hadn't heard of, a guy named Brother Jonathan, had you heard of him? I had not, I didn't think, but then I also think that we may have brought this up because those pictures looked very familiar. Okay, they did not to me,

but there was a character named Brother Jonathan who predated Uncle Sam by a couple of decades. Brother Jonathan was the original personification of America around the time of the revolution. He dressed like a revolutionary cat with a tricornard hat and those tails, like coat with tails and everything. But he was much more rambunctious, much younger. I saw an editorial cartoon of him forcibly pouring

a bunch of French brandy down the throat of John Bull, the character who personified Great Britain and still does. And he was around for decades and eventually he kind of handed the baton off to Uncle Sam, which is really interesting because it happened as the as a time when America was starting to mature. The character personifying America went from a younger, rambunctious, brandy-forcing character to a much more like older, stern, kind of down-to-earth pointer guy. Yeah, I think Brother Jonathan went away by the 1860s.

Like there was some overlap there. Went away by the 1860s, like there was some overlap there, went away in the 1860s. And then Thomas Nass, and that's a pretty big name in cartooning back then, right? For sure. He kind of gave us the conception of Santa Claus, the pre-Coca-Cola Santa Claus. That's right, that's right.

I knew that name from somewhere. But Nass is the one who sort of came up with the more modern image, and then Flag, of course, made the iconic one that we still use, that same exact sort of character. Mm-hmm. Right. And so, let's see. What else, Chuck? Well, I mean, one of the ways, you know, if you've still never seen much Uncle Sam besides recruitment posters and stuff like that or the old propaganda posters that Flagg was tasked with drawing is in political cartoons, you'll still see to this day like a political

cartoon that will use Uncle Sam in a variety of ways, whether it's a beleaguered Uncle Sam in a food line or a war mongering Uncle Sam, like, you know, any way they can, it's a beleaguered Uncle Sam in a food line or a war mongering Uncle Sam, like, you know, anyway, they can, it's not just like kind of one use whenever he's in a political cartoon. They can, he can adapt and change to suit whatever message you're trying to deliver. Yeah, whatever comment you're making on America, you just make Uncle Sam do it.

Yeah. There's also a 1996 slasher film called Uncle Sam and I was reading about it. And it's, the horror fan blog was like, it's not a must see, but you could see it. Right. Essentially is what they were saying. It's a movie that exists.

But Robert Forster's in it. He plays like a corrupt congressman who dies. Isn't that interesting? What year was it? 96. Okay, so that was pre-Jackie Brown. Yeah. You're around that time. I would think it wouldn't be post-Jackie Brown.

No, did he blow up after Jackie Brown? Not blew up, but was definitely relevant enough to probably not be in Uncle Uncle Sam Slasher movie. He landed a role on Breaking Bad, season five at least, right? Oh, was he in that? Yeah, he was the guy, sorry for spoilers everybody,

if you haven't seen Breaking Bad yet, but he was the guy who brought, oh, I can't remember the main character's name, but Malcolm in the Middle's dad. Yeah. Supplies when he was, Walter White, yes, when he was hiding out in New Hampshire, Vermont or wherever.

He was the guy who was just basically waiting for him to die so he could take his money. Here's your things that I'm gonna deliver to your house, and now if you could just give me your money. That's my best impression of him. That was great. I thought it was Robert Forster speaking just now. And by the way, Jackie Brown was 97,

so kind of right around that time. For my money, the most underrated Tarantino film. Yeah, maybe Tarantino saw him in Slasher and was like, that's my guy. You never know. That was a good movie. I don't know if it's the most underrated. Yeah, maybe, maybe. I could see that, sure. It was a good one. I don't know if it's the most underrated. Yeah, maybe, maybe.

I could see that, sure. It was a good one. He's got a lot of overrated movies. Yeah, he's got a few under his belt for sure, but he's also got some of the greatest of all time. Agreed, he's all over the map. Yeah, and I'm really sad to hear that he's planning on making his last movie,

although apparently he scuttled the project that was his last movie. Oh apparently he scuttled the project that was his last movie. Oh yeah? Because people had like spies had infiltrated it and he got pretty far into it. It was like, nope, I'm making something else for my last movie then.

Huh, and you know how that goes. Soderbergh was supposed to retire too, then he did like 40 more things. Okay, all right, well that's good, that's hopeful. So obviously we started talking about Quentin Tarantino and the Uncle Sam short stuff Which means short stuff is out Stuff you should know is a production of I heart radio for more podcasts my heart radio visit the I heart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows