Stuff You Should Know - The Rock Ampersand Roll Hall of Fame

Episode Date: November 4, 2021

Cleveland rocks! So said the city of Cleveland when they lobbied for the "Rock Hall" way back in 1985. Since then the museum has grown and evolved amidst great support and controversy.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to

believe. You can find in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Licks Bryant. Chris. And Jerry's over there and this is Stuff You Should Know, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

Edition. Ta-da. Or is it Skinner that said Rock and or Roll? Yes, it was. It's a good one. I'm glad you said that because every time we walk past something one of the Simpsons characters said and they're 900 million seasons, somebody writes and is like, how could you possibly not say this, you dummies? I know. Remember that time we got to go to a Simpsons table read, aka probably second or third best day of either one of our lives? Yes, absolutely. That's always what I respond back with. I was like, oh, I'm sorry, were you at the table read we were at? When we met Matt Groening and he drew Simpsons characters on our autograph scripts. Yes, which I still have. I don't know if you still have yours. I still have mine.

Kid me? Of course. Yes, I am kidding you. No, I tossed it. So you're like, I don't have room for this. Yeah. So, Chuck, we are talking about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame today. We've already talked about the Simpsons on an official episode before, two of them actually. This one's a little different. This is about Rock and Roll, the musical genre, which is way more encompassing than a lot of people would like to admit, it turns out. Yeah, we'll get into that. There's a lot there. We definitely will. It smacks a lot of our, remember our disco episode? Yeah. It smacks a lot of that. And I know we've talked about this. I don't think you've been, have you, to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? No, I haven't actually. I'm sorry, Cleveland. I'm sorry, everybody settled down.

I have not been yet, no. And I actually have to say, I don't know that I care to. I know that there are plenty of people out there who would love to go to that and should, but for me personally, I just, I don't care. Yeah, it's not your kind of place, really. No, it's not meant for losers like me. No, I don't think that's it. It's meant for losers like me. I went, you know, my family or Emily's family is from Akron. And so we, when they were all living there, we spent Christmases there and other holidays there. So we did all the Cleveland things. And this was one of them. And definitely, it's definitely one of the Cleveland things to do for sure. It's one of the Cleveland things.

It's a place that I want to go back to. I love this in the museum in Seattle, like the Pop Culture Museum. I can't remember what it's called. What's it called? The Museum of Popular Culture. Yeah, and there's, but there's more. And then there's another shorter name. But I love standing and looking at the original pad of paper where the original lyrics to Purple Hayes are written. Yeah. See, that's what I'm saying. I like listening to Purple Hayes. I couldn't care less about the piece of paper that it was originally written on. Like, I get what people are getting out of this. It just doesn't hit me that way. No, I hear you. I had a bunch of other things I was going to say I love, but are you going to say you don't love them after every

one of them? Let's find out. I love looking at the outfit that Bruce Springsteen wore on the Born in the USA cover right in front of me. I love looking at it. I could see how you would like that. I don't care about that outfit. Chuck, what else? I love standing in front of Prince's tiny little purple jumpsuit or that cool guitar or Mick Jagger's tiny little 10-year-old boy-size jeans or leather pants. So small. They're all so small. I thought Mick Jagger was, you know, not pint-sized. Really? Okay. I knew Prince was small, but I didn't know that Mick Jagger was as well. We've talked about this. That's why they learn to be musicians because they're trying to get girls. Well, Prince was a great basketball player, too. I don't know about Mick Jagger,

but he was. Yes, it's true. He played basketball in high school, too. Oh, man. Yeah, no, for his size, he was a good athlete, I think. But the point is I really, really love seeing that stuff. In Seattle, I love seeing Kurt Cobain striped sweater from the video and the broken drumsticks of Dave Grohl and Chris Cornell's Gibson guitar. I love knowing that that's... And this is not just rock and roll memorabilia. I like any museum where I'm like, oh, that's the real thing. That's the Declaration of Independence I'm looking at. Yeah. It's not a copy. That's the one. I really get a lot out of seeing the thing in person. And the rock and roll hall of fame has a lot of things to look at in person. So I don't want to come off like some

Rube who doesn't care about museums. I care deeply about museums. It's just some like pop culture memorabilia that doesn't get me. It's as simple as that. I think we've established that. Okay, but I just don't want people to be like, Josh doesn't like museums. What a dummy. No, we know you like museums. You got engaged in a museum. You like museums so much. That's absolutely true. Thanks for that. I appreciate the backup, Chuck. Yeah. And you'll see the scream and a million art websites and art history books, but to stand in front of the screen is a different thing because it's the real thing. All right. Let's talk about the rock and roll hall of fame itself, shall we?

Yes. I think we should start talking first about this because this really kind of summarizes a lot of... Some people hate the rock and roll hall of fame not just because they're not into pop culture museums, but they hate the idea and they think the least rock and roll thing you can do is vote people into a hall of fame. Yeah, which is a real criticism of it. And it's really something that from what I've read, the rock and roll hall of fame or the rock hall, the people who are in the know, has never fully figured out how to deal with that paradox because it is a paradox to take what is rock and roll, which is in your face, your parents hate it. It doesn't follow the rules and then just put it behind incredibly expensive, recessed lighting in

protecting it with plexiglass and all that. That is the opposite of that. And they've just had to move forward as a paradox, basically. Yeah. And I should point out too that my love for this stuff is like, it doesn't have to be behind glass. I love being... And I'm going to Woodstock in New York in November and I'm going to drive by Big Pink where Bob Dylan in the band lived. And I like being at the places where the things really existed. There's an energy to it, I think. I get why you're going to drive by that house, but I don't care about that. You gotta stop. But this all comes back to Johnny Rotten, the leader of the Sex Pistols. Yeah. They were inducted. He wrote, scribbled out on a piece of paper, didn't go, obviously. And

he said, next to the Sex Pistols, rock and roll in that hall of fame is Epistain, your museum, urine and wine. We're not coming. We're not your monkeys. And so what? That was a great read. So that's sort of the thing, though. That is how some people feel. But to me, the rock and roll hall of fame is rock and roll because they read that on stage rather than just burying it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like that's rock and roll. Yeah. And I mean, it's had such an enormous impact on world culture, on human culture that like, of course it deserves a museum. And then if you're going to do like a world-class museum, there's just certain things you have to do. And yes, that doesn't fit with rock and roll, but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't have

a rock and roll museum. It's just like, yeah, we took this rock and roll stuff and put it under plexiglass and that's just what you do when you create a museum. That's right. We'll talk about more of that stuff later, but let's talk about the history, shall we? Yeah, because the whole thing opened up on September of 1995, but it had been brewing since the early 80s, I think, thanks to a dude named Amit Erdigan. Erdigan? I think it's Erdigan. I got it the first time, and then I doubted myself, but I still got it. That's the point. That's right. So Erdigan was the co-founder of Atlantic Records, the biggest name in records in sort of at a certain time. A couple of certain times, huh? Yeah, a couple of certain times. He was the son of a Turkish ambassador

but loved music, co-founded Atlantic and with Jerry Wexler and started out in the R&B game. Yeah, dude, they signed the Drifters, Ray Charles, Aretha Franklin, all of whom were unknown at the time. So that alone is worth celebrating. That's an amazing record label just to start. And then in the 60s, they shifted over to rock and signed Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones and Cream. So just these two incarnations over two decades kind of put Atlantic on the map. I think, like you said, it kept going, right? Like, is Atlantic still around? Oh, it's got to be. I mean, it's probably owned by Disney or something, but... Sure, sure. But it's a storied record label and for good reason. That's right. And so he first hatched the idea of having

a museum and a rock and roll hall of fame, and he was like, well, of course, it'll be a New York City because that's just where you do it. What he didn't know was that there were these businessmen in Cleveland, Ohio, that were already planning their own rock and roll hall of fame in Cleveland. Yes. And when Amit Erdigeens heard that, he shuddered. He was like, all right, why Cleveland? And they said, well, hold on. Like, Cleveland actually has a lot of claim to rock and roll cred. For one, the local DJ, Alan Freed, is widely considered as the person who coined the term rock and roll. That guy came up with it and he was a Cleveland DJ. And Erdigeens said, okay, I'm listening. What else you got?

And he said, well, it was the radio station, WJW, that Freed DJed at, broke a lot of big acts. You kind of had to make it in Cleveland, not had to, but making it in Cleveland could break you. Yeah. David Bowie was broke there, Rush. And we got to thank Dave Ruse for putting this together. And I also want to thank Dave Ruse for saying Bruce Springstein. Yeah, I noticed that now that you say it. I know it's a typo, Dave. I know you're listening, but it was fun to read Bruce Springstein. He's like, no, I mean the much less known Bruce Springstein. Joe Walsh is from Cleveland, Trent Reznor is from Cleveland, Ohio.

You know, I've talked about before in Emily's hometown of Akron, her high school, Firestone, is where Devo was from in Chrissy Hynd in Black Keys. Like that's a heck of a roster to come out of a single high school. Yes, plus also like even back long before Devo was around, that same guy, Alan Freed, the DJ, he organized and hosted what's also considered the first rock and roll show, the Moondog Coronation Ball, way back in 1952. And we've talked about it before. I could not figure out what we've talked about. The Coronation Ball?

Yeah, we've definitely covered it. I'm almost positive. Anyway, yes, so Cleveland has like some rock and roll cred. So it would make sense that they would be considering a rock and roll hall of fame. And it would also make sense that Erdogan and the rest of the rock and roll hall of fame foundation said, okay, we'll think about this. They were skeptical at first, but then they said, how about this? We'll open this whole thing up to voting as to where the site should be. And we'll say Cleveland is one of a number of different cities, Memphis, New Orleans, Philadelphia, San Francisco, and of course, New York, which everybody knows New York is going

to win. And just whoever gets the most votes, we'll say that's the city that gets the rock and roll hall of fame. Yeah, I get the feeling it was that it was like, hey, we know we're going to put it in New York, but this will drum up a lot of publicity, get everyone excited all around the country, even though they're going to lose. But I think he underestimated two things. The passion of Midwesterners and the pride of Clevelanders and Ohioans to put their city on the map a little bit more than it even was then, and the disinterest of your average New Yorker to take place in a poll or a vote or a petition or a to sign their name on something. Yeah. And don't forget, this was around the time of balloon fest 86. So like Cleveland was really

trying, they were trying to find something that let the world know Cleveland was great. So they actually collected 650,000 signatures, which was more than the population of Cleveland at the time. They got a lot of people behind this idea. And I guess USA Today ran a poll in January of 1986, right? And they said, okay, which of these cities should the rock and roll hall of fame be in? That's right. And I'm sure they had a colorful graph to declare Cleveland the winner by a landslide, 110,000 votes in first place, second place went to Memphis with 7,200. So Cleveland, they know how to get people motivated for civic pride, I will say that. Yes. But the thing that probably really got the foundation's attention was that Cleveland

also simultaneously raised $26 million for the museum to basically say, hey, we're quite serious about this. And it would turn out later that the whole thing cost about a hundred million, but Cleveland footed the bill for the whole thing. So it was actually, as we'll see, a pretty good choice. And finally, in 1986, it was announced that, okay, fine. Yes, it'll be in Cleveland. That's right. But they did not wait for the building to be built to have their first hall of fame class voted on and inducted. They did that in 1986 in New York City, Chuck Berry, James Brown, Ray Charles, Sam Cook, Fat Stomino, the Everly Brothers, Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis, and little Richard. And then on the non performance idea at Sam Phillips

and Alan Freed, you had early influencers, Jimmy Rogers and Jimmy Yancey. And the lifetime achievement that year went to John Hammond, who it didn't look up, but that's got to be the Hammond Oregon guy. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So there was this great quote that Dave found that really kind of got across like even at the outset of the criticism of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, it said that Rock and Roll is now so middle class, it was accorded a most civilized honor. It was given a dinner for him when writing about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame first class induction in 1986. You know, that reporter was like, huh, right after they typed it. Yes. I'm so self satisfied. All right. We're going to take a break now and we're going to talk about the building itself

and how you get in that thing besides paying money to buy a ticket right after this. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough, or you're at the end of the road. Okay, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. This I promise you. Oh God. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh man. And so my husband, Michael. Hey, that's me. Yep. We know that Michael and a different hot sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide you

through life step by step. Oh, not another one. Kids relationships life in general can get messy. You may be thinking this is the story of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never ever have to say bye bye bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikular. And to be honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life in India. It's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars, if

you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had to handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world can crash down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. So Chuck, everywhere I've read is that you have to show that you've signed your name and blood in

the book of Satan to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and pay $30. Yeah, right. Is it still $30? I didn't look that up. I believe, yes, I think it is. And they have different stuff too. Like any museum, they'll have temporary exhibits. So if you've been once, don't think you can't go again. They'll let you back in, especially if you're willing to pay another $30. Yeah, and you'll see new stuff. But supposedly you should not expect to see everything in an hour or even two and really be able to soak it in. Like I've read that you can zip through the museum in maybe two and a half hours, but you're not getting that much out of it.

It depends on how much you want to read the placards and stare at that Jimi Hendrix's Purple Haze lyrics. Well, yeah, and there's also lots and lots of videos and archival footage and stuff like that that you can really add a lot to your visit to sit and watch and listen to. That's right. So when they went to build the building, they enlisted the services of one I am pay. Is it pay or pay? Pay, I am pay. The architect who just happened to design the expansion of the Louvre, which didn't even take that long. It didn't. Isn't that the second time I've referenced that same Seinfeld thing in the last few weeks? No. Remember when George pretended to be an architect? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And they said he designed the new thing on the Guggenheim and he didn't really even take that long. Yeah, I do. I don't remember you referencing it again. I've referenced it recently. I thought it was to you, but it's hard to tell real life from. I'm totally with you, man. These chats these days. But yeah, so he, you know, I am pay had a great resume, designed that glass pyramid at the Louvre and went to a few concerts to sort of, you know, get the gist of what this whole rock and roll thing was all about. Yeah. And apparently he was on acid with Lou Reed at the Bon Jovi show at the Meadowlands. And when he stood up and he said, I've got it. Another triangle is what I'm going to do. Another

pyramid. And he did. It was a, it's a pretty iconic building in and of itself. And the pyramid, though, if you hear that he also did the pyramid at the Louvre, you're like, oh, come on, there's other shapes. But this one is meant to evoke, especially if you look at the logo or the letter head for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They have a pyramid in that. And you see very clearly that that's meant to evoke a guitar neck vanishing off into the distance. Like you're looking up the neck of a guitar from the body. Yeah. I mean, there's a couple of cool things about it. There's also this central tower and then in front of it, a big 65,000 square foot circular plaza. And if you look from above, it's really neat. You can look at a picture of it. It looks like a record

and then on that plaza, there's like the arm of the record player and the needle. And it looks like a turntable, which is really cool. Yeah, it is very cool. So it's also like, it's a very literal building as far as like what it's supposed to look like goes, but it's also enormous and very nice. It's one of those things where if you research the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, you either come across Cleveland.com articles, rock music, journalism articles, or architectural articles. Those are the three groups that basically lay claim to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And you're like, I'd fly over it, but I'm not going in. It's not that I wouldn't go in. I would go in. I just wouldn't get as much out of it as you.

Oh, okay. All right. We're getting places. Yeah. It's not like I'm, and I certainly don't begrudge anybody going. I'm just saying I won't get as much out of it as you will. It's not like I don't understand it. I guess what I'm trying to say is, let me see if I can put it in different terms. I just don't care. Oh, I know. That's not true. I care. We're going to crack this code by the end. Okay. So they broke ground in 1993, opened in 95 with a six hour concert. I saw seven and a half. Oh, well, the spring sign was involved. He did it again. There it is again. Did he really? Dave did it twice. Oh my gosh, he did. I'm starting to think that Dave doesn't know. It's Bruce Springsteen. Two E's. Oh, that's no typo, because I see other E's,

like his E button isn't broken. No, it's true. There's one that comes right before the I in Bruce Springsteen. I can't wait to get his email. Oh, man, I can't either. So they have that concert at Cleveland Muni Stadium with Chuck Berry and who is still around, played with Springsteen and Johnny Cash and Johnny Cougs, Aretha, Al Green, Lou Reed. It was quite an event. And then I guess we should talk about how you get in because this is where it takes on a lot of heat. Some people say there should be no such thing because rock and roll shouldn't be in a museum. But then other people say the like the voting process and the vagueness of qualifications to be considered are just weird and it's a popularity contest. And

it's gotten a lot of criticism over the years because basically you have to be at least 25 years out from your debut album. And you need to have demonstrated unquestionable musical excellence. That's it. And that's all. Yeah. Which is not, it's not really great guidance, but it is kind of rock if you think about it. It's kind of rock and roll. It kind of has to be that way, I think. You know? But yeah, that definitely is so subjective that of course it's opened up to accusations of favoritism, sexism, which definitely seems to be legit. Only 8% of the inductees in the Rock and Roll Hall of Famer women. And there's definitely way more than 8% of women rockers or women contributors to Rock and Roll. So it's not that these

allegations or suggestions are just totally off base necessarily. They may be quite accurate. Yeah. I mean, here's my deal. I kind of think it has to be that vague because they would get probably more complaints if it was a numbers, if there was an algorithm, like you need to have had this many number one singles, won this many Grammys, which are also subjective by the way. I don't think it can be based on record sales. Right. Like it'd be weird to design an algorithm. I think it has to be kind of vague. To me, it's an award of longevity in a way, which I do like because, you know, 25 years on, unless you died young, you can still get in like Buddy Holly, obviously, and people that died young.

But you can't have a record that came out 25 years ago and still be a performer who is not very popular and get in, you know what I mean? Yeah, I know Starland Vocal Band or anything in there. Yeah, you have to have withstood the test of time. And it's easy to poo poo this stuff. But like, dude, if there's ever a podcasting Hall of Fame, you bet your sweet butt I want us to be in there. Sure. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And we'll be standing at our own little display with the microphones in our headphones. I'll be like, I don't care about the microphone in our headphones. And most people will be going, who are those guys? Right. I've seen that logo, but who are they? You'll find me hanging out at the display being like, this one's pretty great,

huh? Hey, I'm Josh Clark. It's good to meet you. Thanks for coming. So, yeah, the vagaries around induction has definitely been a criticism. They come up with a the staff comes up with a list of nominees each year. They send that out to a thousand musicians and members of the record industry, historians, music historians, and then they vote for the top picks. And then if you receive at least 50% of the vote, which is 500 votes, then you are inducted and that's usually between five and seven performers each year. Right. And so the induction process is basically like a museum, the museum version of the hundred greatest bands of all time, hundred greatest albums of all time in all of like the arguments that that starts. Yeah.

That's basically the voting and induction process every single year. Why is this person on this list? Why isn't this person on this list? Why haven't you inducted this person? This doesn't even count as that kind of music. That is the induction process every single year and everybody's right. Yeah. And I think the Hall of Fame itself is kind of like, I don't think they're trying to solve that anymore. I think they're just like, yeah, this just comes with the territory and stick it in your butt if you don't like it. Probably the wisest thing they could do is approach it from that way. There is a fan vote now, which is great. I don't know if they've always had it, but you can vote online and pick your top five and the winner of the fan vote is on a fan ballot. And I believe

that kind of changed things because, you know, bands like Rush and Cheap Trick finally getting in the last couple of years. Oh, yeah. There were a couple of the big ones where people were like, why are they not in there? Like they may not be the most popular band across all demographics, but like they have some of the most devoted fan bases and have been doing it for, you know, 30 years. Yeah. No, there's tons and tons of people that you can say like, why aren't they in there? Yeah, for sure. But I don't know that the fan vote is actually having much of an impact because I saw that it's added to the other thousand votes. Like all of the fan tallies adds up to one extra vote total. Right. It's not like they can vote in people. No. And I learned that from Dee Snyder,

who we were actually on a TV set with at the same time, the lead singer of Twisted Sister. He only met him. Yeah, great guy. He was trying to rally the public to support Iron Maiden this past year and Maiden got passed up, which is agreed, ridiculous, but apparently metal acts like just routinely snubbed by the Rockville Hall of Fame. So much so that you could probably be like, what is going on? Why do you not like metal? Metal is definitely rock and roll, for sure. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we'll get to more of that later because it is very strange that Judas Priest is not in the Rockville Hall of Fame. Sure. They also hand out other awards, the Ahmed Erdogan Award. It was the Lifetime Achievement Award originally, and this is for non-performers

who've had a major influence on the development of rock and roll. So we're talking Brian Epstein, not Brian Epstein. I think it is Epstein. Manage the Beatles. Dick Clark is in, Lou Adler, Leo Fender, Phil Spector, people like that. Yeah. There's also the Early Influence Award, which is basically like, you're not rock and roll, but you definitely influenced a lot of people who play rock and roll. So people get inducted in that way, like Woody Guthrie. Definitely not a rocker, but he certainly did. He influenced, say, like Bob Dylan, who's considered a rocker. You know what I mean? So yeah, it's a good way to get in is to just travel in time, release a bunch of records in the 1920s, and sit back and wait for your induction

after your long day. Louis Armstrong, Billie Holiday, Robert Johnson, our own Les Paul. Our own Les Paul, like we own him. He's with us. Then there's the award for Musical Excellent. This is to artists and musicians and songwriters and producers whose originality and influence creating music have had a dramatic impact. Only 22. They don't do this every year. Ringo Starr, Leon Russell, Nile Rogers, the E Street Band without Bruce Springstein. Nile Rogers is in there. I was reading about him. He's had one of the most amazing careers of all time. Yeah. I mean, if he just did Chic alone, that would be fine. But he's got, you know, that was just a small part of his career. Yes, it was. I mean, the most recent thing he did

was win three Grammys for working with Daft Punk on their most recent album, I guess their last album. There you go. So there's some things about being inducted that are kind of anomalous and interesting in that, like you can be inducted more than once in different capacities, right? Yeah. Yeah. If you're a solo performer and you're in a band, like Stevie Nicks is the only woman to be inducted two times as a solo performer and is a member of Fleetwood Bank. No. Tina was inducted twice and so was Carol King. Well, they are being inducted this year. So technically, they've got two more weeks before. I should have known better, Chuck. I'm sorry. I think October 30th is, so Carol King was in there as a songwriter, I guess. Yeah, I believe so.

And Tina with Ike and Tina? Yeah. That had to be. Yes. Can you believe that they inducted her with Ike before they inducted her as their solo career? Give me a break. I believe that chronologically. But it doesn't have to go chronologically. It says nothing about chronological order. But let me ask you this. When you think Tina Turner, do you think Roland on the river? No. Or do you think private dancer? Private dancer. Okay. Okay. You think sexy, sweaty saxophone solos? Yes. Totally. All right, fair enough. I'm thinking about one right now. Which is why she's in there twice. Eric Clapton's in there three times. Not once, not twice, but twice.

Obviously. Yardbirds, Cream, and it's a solo guy. All the Beatles are in twice. Yeah. They're the only band all inducted as solo artists. Yeah. I can't think of another band that might hit that mark. I can't either. Because not many people going to be just as big as a solo performer. No. It's very rare, for sure. And I think it's nice that they gave Ringo his own two in 2017. That was great. That was a very nice ceremony. I watch it every year. Oh, really? The ceremonies. Oh, sure. I love it. Cute. It's fun because they induct the people, someone who loves that person is inducting them.

So that's always great. And it's always like somebody you might not expect, like Harry Styles inducted Stevie Nicks. And I didn't even know Harry Styles likes Stevie Nicks. And it turns out he loves Stevie Nicks. So it's stuff like that. And then they give their speech, which is great, or a complete disaster, which is also fun. So this is from Amanda Petrusich. Sorry, Amanda. From the New Yorker back in 2017. And she said, the televised ceremony proceeded about as expected. Gentleman with exacting hairstyles wore sunglasses inside, hugged each other reluctantly, and squinted at a teleprompter. Like he just took me there to the induction.

Well, what's funny is some of the speeches are really nice and awesome. And then some of them are, some people are like up there with bands that they broke up with and like they hated each other. Yeah. Like, oh my God, have you seen the acceptance speech for Blondie? I know I saw it live, but I don't remember what it would happen. Blondie wouldn't let like three or four of the original members play at the ceremony. Debbie Harry wouldn't? No. Yes. Sorry, Debbie Harry would not. And one of the original guys

begged her on the microphone during his speech and she said, no. And kept saying, no. And was like, no, we're not, no, you're not playing tonight. Really? And it was really deeply uncomfortable. 15 years later watching it on YouTube, I was like, I'm going to throw up. I'm so uncomfortable right now. Well, you know, sometimes people don't show up like Paul McCartney didn't show up for the Beatles induction because supposedly he was in a lawsuit at the time with Yoko and Ringo about something. The talking heads managed to get it together and play together. Like,

that's the other thing, you know, that's where I was headed. You have your speech and then you play together. Usually as the original band, sometimes if it's like, like a journey, you know, Steve Perry didn't sing, but he gave his blessing for the new guy to sing. Sometimes they'll have both like, you know, guns and roses will have the two drummers there and they'll take turns even though Axel wasn't there. You know, not mid song. And then sometimes people can't get it together at all. And they're just like, no, we hate each other. We're not playing. We're not showing up. Sometimes Mike Love will get up there as a member of the Beach Boys and be a crazy freak.

Just watch his speech if you want to see something very deeply uncomfortable. Okay. I can't wait. He like flat out challenged people on stage. He just got really salty like halfway through. And he's like, I'd love to see, I'd love to see the mop tops, the Beatles get up and do 180 shows a year. Or I'd like to see Mick Jagger get up on stage and do what I do. And it was just, I mean, he's a legendary jerk, but it was, it was really something else. But he does not live up to his last name. But to me, that's sort of the fun of watching the ceremony is all these really deeply personal

relationships of these people that are suddenly thrust back together. And do they work it out? And are they amicable and cool or not? Bunny Carlos played with Cheap Trick, which is cool. They're a drummer that left. But sometimes like Axl Rose in a full on legally statement that not only didn't say like, I don't want to come, but he was like, no one is allowed to induct me. No one is allowed to speak for me. I think we have to read it, Chuck. Yeah, read it. It's pretty great.

This was from Axl Rose. I strongly request that I not be inducted in absentia and please know that no one is authorized, nor may anyone be permitted to accept any induction for me or speak on my behalf. Neither former members, label representatives, nor the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame should imply whether directly, indirectly, or by omission that I am included in any purported induction of guns and roses. Oh man. He really didn't want to take part.

And yet they got back together and are playing again and seemingly enjoying themselves. What's his problem with guns and roses? I mean, I knew they broke up or whatever, but why does he like hate slash or what's the problem? Oh yeah, he and slash had problems and I don't know. They worked it all out. They hugged it out. Who knows what goes on behind these closed green room doors, you know? Sure.

Was that the song? No one knows what goes on behind green room doors? I think is that a Bob Seeger song? I think so. Maybe we should take a break. All right, let's do that. All right, we'll be right back. If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help.

This I promise you. Oh God. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh man. And so my husband, Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yep, we know that Michael and a different hot sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide

you through life step by step. Oh, not another one. Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking this is the story of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen. So we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast,

or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikular. And to be honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention.

Because maybe there is magic in the stars, if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had a handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world came crashing down. The situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed.

Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Should we talk about some of the famous snubs? Yes, definitely. We can just do that for the rest of the show. Well, I mean, I'm looking at the list.

I'm going to go ahead and throw out Alice in Chains and Big Star. Like, throw them out like you don't include them? Throw them out like they should be in and they're not. I get you. How about, wait for this one, Dick Dale. Oh, that's just nuts. We talked about that in the Gibson Fender episode. How about the Smiths or MC5?

I know. I mean, it gets weird. It's like, Husker due to me belongs in there, but like, they were a very small band, and XS was a huge band. Jane's Addiction's not in there. Jane's Addiction up being in there is pretty surprising and just objectively wrong, for sure. I totally agree. Motorhead, well, Motley Crue, it's so subjective.

It gets so weird because people poopoo stuff like Disco and they poopoo stuff like Ozzy Osbourne or Metal, like Ozzy should be in there. Yeah, for sure, but that kind of gets at the heart of why a lot of people are like, wait a minute, what's going on here? Because like, hip hop acts have started to be inducted into it, starting in 2007, I'm sorry, with Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 5. I think one of the most recent one was Jay-Z in 2021. Is that right, 2020?

He's due, and we said earlier that it hadn't happened yet. By the time this is out, it will have already happened. Oh, gotcha. Okay, so he's due for this year. Part of this class. Okay, Tupac got inducted. What do you think about that? One more, Fela Kuti was nominated this year, but he didn't make it.

Finally. There's this guy that Dave turned up that I think makes a really great case. His name is Troy L. Smith. He works for Cleveland.com, one of the triumvirate of writing about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He says, look, man, if you are talking about rock and roll, of course it would include hip hop, just as much as it would include alternative or new wave or punk. They're all branching off the same tree because if rock and roll is the trunk, if you go a little further down, the roots of that tree are blues, jazz, gospel, boogie woogie,

doo-wop, all this stuff combined to make rock and roll. If you're saying rock and roll is just a white guy with a guitar somewhere between 1967 and 1990, you're talking specifically about rock. And that's actually different than rock and roll. And this isn't the rock hall of fame. This is the rock and roll hall of fame. So yeah, you could make a really strong case to include not just hip hop, but also like R&B, world music, like Fela Kuti's, Afrobeat stuff,

like all these people were influenced by the same tree. And that's what Troy Smith is saying. And I got to say, I agree with him on that one. I just have mixed feelings. I do agree, but then just call it the music hall of fame, maybe. Yeah, this is what some people suggest. It's weird that Willie Nelson's not in there. Yeah.

But like another country artist might be. Well, like King Williams is in there, Johnny Cash. Yeah, like they'll include jazz and now hip hop, but not metal. It's just, I don't know, man, it starts to sort of fall apart in a way the more you expand it, because there is a country music hall of fame. There's probably, I don't know if there's a jazz hall of fame, is there? Somewhere. I mean, like should everyone have their own hall of fame?

Like every genre, but then where do you stop? Is it like, is New Wave a genre? Like it is, but is it under the more all inclusive banner of rock and roll? It just, it gets really like a cat chasing its own tail at some point. So there was this kind of Twitter discussion, which means a flaymore between Ice Cube and Gene Simmons from KISS when NWA was being abducted. Gene Simmons was poo-pooing the whole thing and Ice Cube was defending it. And Ice Cube had a pretty good point.

He said, the question is, are we rock and roll? Rock and roll is not an instrument. Rock and roll is not even a style of music. Rock and roll is a spirit. It's not conforming, it's outside the box. And then he finishes with rock and roll as NWA, which I could not have read that more squarely than I did. But if you go a little further and read Gene Simmons' retort too,

he's saying like, yes, he's criticizing hip hop is not like actual music because they sample and they talk rather than sing. So therefore it's not rock. I disagree with that. But he also says, I'll tell you what, when Led Zeppelin gets inducted into the rap hall of fame, then you will have proven your point. And he makes a good case in that situation as well. But it kind of dovetails in with your idea like,

should each of them, each genre of music have its own hall of fame? I don't think so. I think the rock and roll hall of fame is a wide enough umbrella that it includes hip hop and other stuff that's not rock. Yeah, that's not a great look to say stuff like that either though. No, I know. And like, you know, of course there's allegations of racism and sexism and homophobism.

Is that a word? A word? Sure, homophobia, I think. Thank you. Of course, dude. Of course. But Amanda Patricia, I'm sorry, Amanda. She says that she points out like how much this ties into that same hatred

of disco by the same people who were into rock. But at the time when rock was new, these are the same people who never aged out of that. It's all rock, it's all white guy with a guitar from 1967 to 1990. That's rock and that's rock and roll. And that's just not true. That's a type of rock and roll. That's not the end all be all of rock and roll.

Yes, totally. That's my take on it. I'll stop saying it. I know I've said it at least twice now, but it's just so true. It is. You saw who was coming in this year. I thought that might get you excited. Who?

Who? Well, in the performer, it's Tina Turner, Carol King, the Go-Go's, amazing. Jay-Z, Foo Fighters and Todd Rungren, but the early influence award, my friend, craft work. Oh, really? They're getting in, huh? They're getting in as early influence along with Charlie Patton and legendary jazz poet, Gil Scott Herron, who I totally think Wyatt Sinek should play in a biopic. Oh, yeah? You mean a biopic?

In a biopic, I think Wyatt would crush that role. Sure. And I think I've even told him that. Oh, yeah? What was his response? I don't think I've told him that because he'd probably be like, I don't need career advice from you, buddy. That's right.

Zip it. That's what Wyatt's famous for saying. Musical excellent award this year is LL Cool J, Billy Preston and Randy Rhodes. Not bad. Okay. Ozzy's not even in there. And then Clarence Avant is getting the Ahmet Erdogan award. And I don't know who that is, and I feel like I should.

I don't either. So, Chuck, they have Purple Hayes lyrics. I think we've established that multiple times. What else do they have at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that would be worth paying $30 to go see? By the way, Clarence Avant is known as the Black Godfather, entrepreneur, executive and film producer and American music executive. So, got to shout him out.

You know, they got the instruments. They got a whole room of clothing and legendary outfits. They have the handwritten lyrics. They have archival, like original master tapes where in listening rooms, they have this really cool thing now that just opened a couple of years ago called the garage, where it's literally like a garage set up with a full band. And you can go in there. You don't have to know what you're doing and they'll try and teach you how to play instruments.

That's so cool. You just want to wash your hands afterwards. Yeah. Well, you do now for sure. And you're like, oh, always. And, you know, they have a great music education program with working with the schools in Ohio and in Cleveland. So, like, they do a lot of cool outreach and hands-on stuff to get people involved. And if you go to the garage, the website for the garage and you see like these, you know,

sort of people you can tell never picked up an instrument before playing the drums or playing the bass just a little bit and like the delight on their faces. It's pretty cool. That's where the museum staff who've transgressed are punished. They have to go hang out at the garage and watch that. Oh, you get this. No, they're teaching them. They're teachers.

Sure. I got, well, the only other thing I want to point out is the, if you're looking for highlights from over the years, that, you know, in the end, they have this all-star jam where a bunch of people come on stage and play some songs. And I think probably the most legendary moment that's ever happened. And it was passed along more recently after his death was at George Harrison's posthumous induction. And the all-star jam they were playing while my guitar gently weeps in prints,

comes out of the shadows and destroys the stage with a guitar solo that like is unlike anything I've ever seen. Oh, check that one out for sure. And he's the coolest dude on the planet. And he finishes the solo, takes his guitar up and throws it up in the air. And there's, you don't know this, but his guy is out there to catch the guitar, but, and he struts offstage and Tom Petty's and Jeff Linn are just standing there like, and Danny Harrison like, oh my God, what just happened?

That's pretty cool, man. It's amazing. So one last thing that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame tried to expand, they finally tried to open something in New York and they did. And I think 2008, yes. So they finally got that New York outpost, right, Chuck? And then within two years, it was closed. And they tried another one in Tokyo in 2017.

It closed in five months later. And Dave Ruse nails it with this last line. I guess Cleveland really was the right choice after all. Wink emoji. Yeah. I mean, they need to keep expanding Cleveland because you've only got so much space, you know? Yeah, for sure.

But I mean, like it's, that was the place to do it. It turns out that that was absolutely correct. So that's good. Sometimes big decisions don't always work out. And this was one that did. And by God, God bless you, Cleveland. We got to get Jane's addiction in there. Sure.

I think we also really even more so maybe need to get like Iron Maiden in there or Judas Priest or both. Jane's was nominated once and didn't get in. A war has been nominated three times and hasn't gotten in. Wow. I think that's, oh, no, no, no, no. Sheik has been nominated 11 times and hasn't gotten in. Just because it's disco, that is ridiculous.

I saw, I read an article making the case for Weird Al, but then also saying why Weird Al will never make it in. Because he makes fun of. Weird Al has been 17 years, snubbed, never nominated. Maybe someday Weird Al, but I also get the impression Weird Al doesn't care. Nah. Well, maybe he does deep down. No, I don't think so.

Okay. Since we said Weird Al doesn't care, obviously that means that it's time for listener mail. Let me see here. Which one should I read? I'm going to call this Lemon Song. Every morning is to get ready for work, guys. I like to throw in an episode of Stuff You Should Know, the excitement that came over me this morning.

Two of my favorite things briefly combined into one is indescribable. Josh's Mix Up on the Lemon Song gave me a good chuckle, only because Squeeze My Lemon is, of course, from the Lemon Song. And I can only guess that the song about friendship that he's speaking about is the song Friend on Led Zeppelin 3. Maybe. As soon as I heard the beginning of the episode, I quickly sent a text over to my dad. He's the reason I'm such a big Zeppelin fan.

We both got matching Zeppelin tattoos when I graduated from college. And I am the reason he is a Stuff You Should Know fan. While we don't live close, I'm in Denver and he's in Phoenix. A small moment like this is something that gave us both a good laugh and a reason to chat this morning. And that is from Lauren and Denver. Nice, Lauren. Thank you very much for that.

We love bringing families together, don't we, Chuck? And splitting them apart in evil fashion. Well, if you want to let us know how we brought your family together or split you asunder, you can email it to us to stuffpodcast.ihartradio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts on My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Badie!

About my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never ever have to say bye-bye-bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to believe. You can find it in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject,

something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.