Stuff You Should Know - The Sordid History of Bachelor/Bachelorette Parties

Episode Date: November 15, 2022

When it comes to pre-wedding festivities, bachelor and bachelorette parties take the penis-shaped cake. Learn all about these sordid affairs today.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to

believe. You can find in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too and we're just batching it on this episode of Stuff You Should Know. Yeah.

So before we get going, my friend, we want to alert people. We got a little something special at the end of this episode. Our former colleague who is no longer with iHeart, but dare I say, one of the best dudes ever and one of our most beloved colleagues, Mangesh Hattokador, he is doing his own little, like he calls it, his own little podcast shingle. And he's making shows now and he has a great new show that he's launched called Obsessions Colon Wild Chocolate, hosted by Rowan Jacobson. And we're going to play a preview of that at the end of the episode, but we wanted to tell people what it was about, right? Yeah, it's pretty awesome. Like they kind of call it the Indiana Jones of chocolate. Yeah. Where basically these

people who are like really into chocolate, they're chocolate makers are like, yeah, all this cacao that we're finding is really good and sounds better than others. But we've heard legend that deep in the Amazon, there's cacao that will knock your socks off and they go to find it. Yes. And Mangesh made a podcast out of it. So it's really interesting stuff. It's really well made. Mangesh is really good and knows what he's doing with podcasting. So congratulations to him on his podcast company Kaleidoscope and on Wild Chocolate too. That's right. So check it out. Obsessions, Wild Chocolate, it's wherever you can get podcasts and stick around after listener mail where we're going to have a little preview of it. Okay, Chuck. So we're back at it then. That's right. A little

COA here. This one's probably rated at least PG-13. I would say that, yeah. I mean, it's not rated R necessarily, but it's about Bachelor and Bachelorette parties. So there's going to be talk about some stuff. Do you really want your kid to learn about Bachelor parties? No. I don't either. No. It's a fair warning. And if you are in other parts of the world and you're like a Bachelor party, what's that? We're talking about a stag party. Sure. For those of you in the UK, Ireland, and Canada. In Australia, we're talking about the Bucks party. Bucks party. That was Boston. By the way, have you seen Kevin Can F himself? No, I have not. We got recommended that from a lot of people after the sitcoms up. Yeah, it's good. That's why I picked it up too. I mean,

I was familiar with it or aware of it, but yeah, it's definitely worth watching. Yeah. I've only seen the first episode and I'm like, this has legs for sure. What does it have to do with Bucks parties in Australia? It's set in Worcester. You said it sounded like I was from Boston. Yes, exactly. And the lead, I don't know the actor's name, but she, you know, from Schitt's Creek, the daughter and sister from Schitt's Creek. So she has an amazing like Boston accent without overdoing it. She's really good. So it's a good show, Chuck. Well, quickly then, while we're segueing or diverting, I was just in Boston and I just wanted to shout out, I went up there for a pavement show and from my hotel room, I looked out and

what was sitting there, but the Wilbur Theatre, our Boston live performance home right outside my hotel window and right next door to the Wang Theatre where pavement played. Okay. And I probably bumped into seven different stuff you should know listeners. Oh, cool. Who all came up and chatted it up, sat right next to a couple and promised them live show freebies, which they need to email me, by the way, if you're out there and listening. Very nice. That's the only way it can happen. We'll probably be in Boston this year is a better than average chance, wouldn't you say? I would say so. So just a big shout out to the Boston Knights because they're always super supportive and nice. And I think my friend from high school and his friends were

with us were like, geez, is Chuck that famous? And I answered, no, not at all. This happens once every few months, not seven times in a night. Sure. I think the fact that it took place at a pavement show kind of skewed the end population. Yeah, they were probably on the lookout at any pavement show I might be there. Yeah. Back to the content. Yeah, back to bachelor parties. What do they call them in France? Oh, in France, they have a great name for them. Interment de vie des gossons, which means the burial of the life as a boy. Ooh, heavy. Which makes a lot of sense because bachelor parties in particular started at a time like the late 19th century is when they really started to become what we understand of them

today. At a time when like you probably were, there was a higher than likely chance that you were going into marriage as a virgin. And so this was exposing you for one last time, your one last opportunity to, you know, how do I put this, man? So I guess without actually doing that, more just like, you know, seeing a naked woman doing a strip tease or something like that. Like this was your chance to do that before you got married kind of thing. And so back then it actually made sense in a certain way. Whereas today, because people are getting married later and later, the bachelor party makes less and less sense, but the same behavior from days of yore is expected. So there's this weird tense juxtaposition between bachelor parties

now and how people actually, whether or not they enjoy bachelor parties today. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I mean, I think we should just go ahead and say, I can speak for you. Neither one of us are big on the traditional bachelor party. We're gonna try not to yuck the yums and get too judgy. I went camping for my quote unquote bachelor party. I've never been into strip clubs at all, much less for a bachelor party, which is, it just makes me uncomfortable just thinking about it. Well, supposedly Chuck, there was at least one ethnographic study. Oh, I can't find it right now. We'll come across it later on. Oh, from 2016, this ethnographic study basically followed bachelor parties to Abitha and like other places around Europe. And they interviewed

like the people who were there just kind of candidly. And most of them were like, no, I really don't enjoy this at all. I'm not having that much fun. Like the time when we're hanging out back at the rented house drinking together, that's fun. But like being put on stage and whipped by a stripper is not that fun. It's kind of humiliating. And no, it's not really enjoyable, but I feel like I have to go through it. So that's that tension that I was talking about where it's like that kind of body raucous, you know, objectifying behavior that again, kind of like maybe made sense in the fifties in a different time. It doesn't make sense today, but people still do it. And so it makes people deeply uncomfortable as far as most, I can't say most days, as far

as plenty of studies who have actually looked at this thing is in a lot of anecdotal evidence to say. Yeah, I'm a full belief that the traditional hedonistic bachelor party thing is being driven still by like a small minority of guys that are like, you got to do it, dude, that kind of guy. They are called your desperate already married friend. Those are the ones that are trouble at a bachelor party. Those are the ones you have to look out for. Those are the ones that push everybody else to do dumb stuff that they wouldn't do and that they'll later regret. As a matter of fact, if you want to have a chill bachelor party, do not invite your desperate already married friends. No, not at all. Or hopefully, if you're, you know, get married a little later in life, then

everyone is sort of a little more on board with something chill. And that seems to have caused bachelor parties to evolve into, you know, what they're becoming more and more today, which are basically like men's retreats to barbecue and like hike and stuff like that. And there are definitely plenty that go to Vegas or, you know, go out of the country or something like that and just party hard. But there's a growing number of ones that just do, like you said, like go camping, you know, just hang out with your pals, which is ultimately what the point is supposed to be. The point of a bachelor party isn't to humiliate the groom to be, but that is a huge kind of through thread in a lot of them. The point is to just like celebrate your time as an individual. I saw it

put so perfectly. It was on a gay marriage website and they were talking about whether you should throw a bachelor party for both grooms or a combined one. And this website was saying one for each because what they're doing is going into a marriage and they're combining themselves. This is one of those times when they can be celebrated as individuals separately, distinctly. And that's ultimately what a bachelor party is supposed to be about. It's just celebrating this individual before they basically become responsible and enter into a union with another person and become a couple. That's ideally what the bachelor party sentiment is supposed to be. That's right. And the only time I will get super judgy is if you are one of those dudes that thinks

it is okay or you should like have sex with one last girl before you get married. Make the worst decision you've ever made. You are cheating on them and you will cheat on them again one day probably. And that is not right in any way, shape, or form. So again, this is anecdotal self-reporting, but on George Takei's website, I don't know what he was doing. He hosted like a, that was Jeffrey Tambor and George Takei cross together. Yeah. Or Hank, what was Hank's name? Yeah, Hank. Yeah. So on George Takei's website, he had this list of people who wrote in and said like, yeah, I was at this bachelor party and the wedding ended because the groom cheated on his fiance at the bachelor party the night before the wedding. And the fiance found out

because her brother's there. Yeah. That was part of the bachelor party. And so apparently, there have been, again, I didn't see like, you know, anything out of like Rutgers or MIT that was a study on this, but anecdotally, there have been marriages that have ended before they started because just terrible decisions were made at the bachelor party. That's right. And ladies, we're not forgetting about you. The bachelorette party is a big thing. They also called them hen parties. They called them early on, I think, hen parties, but they came about much later. Generally, between the 70s and the 90s is when that kind of started. And we'll touch on both as we go along. But first, and Livia, God bless her. I feel bad for even putting her through this,

but she helped us put this one together and did a really good job in that she looked at a lot of other sort of pre-wedding traditions. And, you know, the bachelor and bachelorette parties are one thing, but there's a long, long history across every culture you can think of, kind of since marriage was even a thing, that there is some sort of pre-day before or week before rituals that different cultures partake in. Yep. Ritual bath, the mikvah in Jewish tradition. Ancient Greece, women used to hang out and sacrifice things to the gods before the day before. There was one in Sweden I thought was pretty interesting. In 17th century Sweden, they celebrated the mukvelar, which is virgin knights. So they would bathe and feast and drink

with their friends. And there was actually one town in 1649 of Uppsala that said, no more. Like you're showing up so hungover on the wedding day, like we can't do the mukvelar here anymore. It's banned. Yeah. That's another thing too. Like there are a few bad ideas that have to do with marriage that are worse than having a bachelor and or bachelorette party the night before the wedding. Not the time to do it. That's when you have your rehearsal dinners and stuff usually. Right. It's supposed to be like kind of chill and exciting, not partying like that, the night before the wedding. Like you have to be so bad at thinking things through to actually do that, that it's just kind of mind boggling, but also hilarious in a way.

There's one in Northeastern Scotland, I think in rural Scotland, that I think still happens. I'd love to hear from our friends there, but they will drive. It's called the blackening. They will get the bride and groom and kind of fake kidnap them. And you'll see that happens a lot in a lot of these traditions. It's like, we've got you now. And they will cover them with disgusting sticky things, dog food, rotten eggs, just anything that will kind of stick to your body and humiliate you. And they will drive you around in the back of a truck basically around town. And they basically said there are not many rules except that you're uncomfortable and embarrassed basically. One thing I saw was that this is like a farming community. So that like manure doesn't

actually work because everybody's so used to the smell of manure that if you smear it on somebody, they're like, whatever. It's not a blackening. They're not close to the coast. So they'll actually drive to the coastal areas to get like fish guts and stuff because those people do find the particularly disgusting and offensive smelling. Wow. Yeah, it's kind of mean, but it actually evolved out of a tradition of washing the bride's feet and it ended up becoming that cat in this little part of Scotland. But yeah, it still goes on from what I saw. So if you look at the U.S. in the United States, we're talking about, like you said, the 19th century when these things kind of became a thing. There's a sociologist named Thomas Turnell Reid

that did an article with Live Science and basically said, you know, when we became industrialized and we moved into the cities and started working in factories, new rituals came about now that you weren't in doing sort of the farming community rituals where if you had kind of any sort of promotion or anything to mark a rite of passage, people would maybe an apprenticeship would end or something, you would take people out and you would like drink beer with them, maybe played practical jokes on them, maybe tar and feather, their jumpsuit for work or something like that. And this is what this sociologist thinks sort of led to this tradition of bachelor and bachelorette parties of getting together, drinking a lot, maybe some practical jokes. We'll get to those

later, but those are still a thing apparently. Yeah, which makes sense. I think it's a pretty good argument because you have these new living situations, but still some of those old surviving traditions. So you have to come up with new customs around those traditions because the old living situation isn't around anymore. I totally buy that. I buy it too. And Livia also found this really cool story that sort of exposed a lot of how the how the richies lived in the Gilded Age in New York. It was exposed with something called the awful Sealy dinner. And this was the Sealy family in New York. And this was these were relatives, I think ancestors of P.T. Barnum, right? Descendants of P.T. Barnum, the grandson. What's the difference? I always

forget. P.T. Barnum who came before was their ancestor. They are the descendants of P.T. Barnum, right? So isn't one of your favorite movies the descendants? It is, but I also call it the ancestor sometimes. So Herbert Barnum Sealy through this party for his brother, Clinton, and just I guess 11 days before he was to be married and I guess did get married. And it was at a restaurant called Sherry's at a time before there was like dining out was a thing. So this was really, really expensive. Actually, you know what? Dining out was a thing. I looked into this party a little bit more, but if you were really elite, as you'll see, you like a lot of privacy and you like to do some like nasty things sometimes. So there was this big private dining scene in

New York at the time that was a really, really big deal. Okay, potato, potato. Okay. But so they were doing this private dining thing. Yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense because they had very tight-lipped waitstaff help performers when they were interviewed with the cops, all these people were like, it is not within our social strata to inform on the people who hired us. We just can't. And from what I understand, the cops were like, yeah, we totally get it. We don't have a case, but we totally get it. And it wasn't until Herbert Barnum Sealy told the cops who some of the attendees were that the cops went and interviewed these incredibly rich people and stuff started to come out. And it was like, no, they actually did have a woman who did like this, who jumped naked

out of a, I guess a cream pie or something like that and danced on the table. Her name was Little Egypt. She was kind of a famous dancer at the time. But this is a time where as far as society was concerned, you did not do this. This is like finding out that the wealthy have eyes-wide shut parties. I think was what it was like, but times a million because the Victorian era was so genteel. Yeah, but here's the thing. They totally did this, which is why they had all those private dining events because they like to do stuff like this. So they were tipped off by, I think, an agent of one of the dancers. The cops were tipped off that there was lurid things happening. So the cops show up and accidentally walk in on a bunch of dancers changing, changing

their outfits and were embarrassed away, basically, away from the premises, said we didn't see anything. And then the Celies, it probably would have just kept quiet if it hadn't been for the Celies, taking it back to the city and saying, you know what, we want these cops investigated. And so all of a sudden, their dirty laundry is being dragged out. And it was quite the scandal of the New York court system because like you said, these people didn't, this quote-unquote low society didn't mix with the high society. And all of these people were brought through to testify in court. And apparently the people in court watching was everything from the high society person looking to get dirt or laugh at their comrades or whatever to the guy on the street

who was just looking for warmth in the courtroom. And so there were all kinds of people mixing in New York when you really never saw this happening. And the dancers, they had all their outfits rigged to either be snipped off with scissors or for their stockings to drop. And it was just, for the time, very lured stuff, big time embarrassment. There's a lot of fun contemporary, contemporaneous articles. There's one from the New Yorker that's really fun to read about the awful Celie party. And just a little quick side note about little Egypt. She was quite the business lady apparently. She was a real estate investor and died of, very sadly, died a couple of years later of gas, affixiation, and apartment, but died with in today's dollars

about a million bucks in the bank. Yeah. So she had it going on. Yeah. And apparently she was secretly married and her husband wouldn't claim her in public. But when she died, he came forward immediately and was like, that was my wife. That's my money. What a jerk. So the upshot of the awful Celie dinners, it was called, it gave bachelor parties or bachelor dinners is what they were called at the time, kind of a bad name because everybody had assumed that, yeah, there's some drinking and, you know, they smoked maybe an extra cigar or something like that. This really exposed them. And just, it gave them bad reputation. It turns out for like 25 years, tops, because no less than Emily Post in her 1922 book, etiquette and society and business

and politics and at home, wrote that the bachelor dinner is popularly supposed to have been a frightful orgy. But in reality, it was a sheep and wolf's clothing. So her point was less than a quarter century after this awful Celie dinner, when it comes out that the rich at their bachelor parties hire like couples to perform sex shows in the middle of dinner. By this time, Emily Post is saying, no, that was all just hysterical. They're actually very staid events. Yeah. And she really, I don't know if she didn't know what she's talking about. That's what I think. Probably so. I just didn't know if she was trying to just make things seem a little more upstanding than they were. But yeah, she probably just didn't even know what was really going on.

Right. Because I think it was that very same time period, there was a counterclaim, which I just called the reality of it all. There was an oral history gathered by the WPA, which is a Rhode Island French Canadian of a Rhode Island French Canadian textile worker named Henry Boucher, who described in first person his own stag party. And it was a raucous affair, basically. They had a priest there that gave a speech about the duties of a married man and gave a toast. But then they basically said he had the good sense to get out of there really quickly. And we were really relieved because income, the striptease acts and stuff like that, and we didn't want the priest here. So Emily Post had it all wrong.

That's my take, that she was just like, this isn't possible. My brain won't comprehend what's actually going on at these bachelor dinners. So at the very least by the late 19th century into the 20s, the bachelor party is really starting to evolve and take shape and reflect what what we're seeing today, right? And I say something else that's evolving and taking shape is a ad break. Very nice. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough, or you're at the end of the road. Okay, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself,

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the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikular and to be honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get second hand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars, if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had a handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world came crashing down. Situation doesn't

look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, Chuck. So the whole time that the bachelor party is evolving, starting in the late 19th century, there wasn't really anything that was... What's the word I'm looking for, Chuck? I don't know. The bride didn't have anything quite similar to the bachelor party. Analogous? Yes, thank you. But there was like a bridal shower. Those have been around since from what I saw 16th century Belgium. And the origin story for those is really sweet. There was

a wealthy girl who fell in love with a poor... I saw a Miller's son. And her father was like, you can't marry him. And if you try to proceed, I'm keeping your dowry and you guys will be broke. And so don't even try it. She said, I don't care, father. I'm marrying him anyway. And they got married anyway. And the town found out about this and was so moved by their love that they actually brought gifts to get this couple started in life. Nice. In lieu of the dowry, that I think the father finally relented and was like, here, fine. Here's the dowry too. But they say that that's the origin story of the bridal shower, which was the bride and her friends and her future in-laws and her mom and her future mother-in-law kind of hanging out,

having a very nice, tasteful luncheon or brunch and then getting presents that were usually of like a household nature. That's right. And in the 20th century, early 20th century, and Britain, women there started celebrating what was called ribbon girl traditions. And they would decorate the bride with ribbons and hearts and kitchen utensils and stuff like that. Because of course, this is the time where they were like, get ready for a life of domestic servitude. Yeah. Because that's what's coming your way. Here's the spatula. Yeah. And they would parade her around on the factory floor where she worked. And then this sort of evolved over time. And then by the 1960s, especially into the 70s, is when women, especially in the US, started saying, hey,

you know, maybe these showers we're throwing should be a little bit more like what these guys are doing. And this is kind of pre-bachelorette party still, but they would have what they would call a personal shower where all of a sudden, you're not getting a toaster or a spatula, but you might get like a sex toy or something fun like that. Right. And the future mother-in-law was typically not invited to that one, I think. Typically, unless she's fun and has an open mind. Sure. So that's the 60s, I guess. I'm taking it as the late 60s. Yeah. Within three decades, the early 90s. So within just a couple of decades, actually. Yeah. It evolved at least in the UK into hem parties, which became like boozy, raucous body events where the bachelorette party

that you might see at a club today really kind of finds its root from what I understand in the UK in the early 90s. And there's, I think they're still called hem parties today. And then in the United States, Chuck, they attribute the rise of bachelorette parties, not necessarily from people going over the UK for hem parties and coming back and saying like, we got to try this, but almost evolving independently thanks to the arrival of the Chippendales review in Los Angeles in 1979, that that apparently kicked off the bachelorette industry, bachelorette party industry. I can only think of Chris Farley when I hear the word Chippendales. And Patrick Swayze too. Yeah, what a great bit. And that look that Patrick Swayze has where he's

just like, I can't compete with this when he's watching Chris Farley. It was just priceless. I would like to equally shame the bachelorette parties because there are two words of advice. If you see a big raucous bachelorette party come in your way in a bar or a club, run the other way. If you see a bachelorette party headed your way in a club or a bar, run the other way for sure. You don't want to be swept up into any of these shenanigans. And I have unwittingly somehow been swept up in bachelorette party shenanigans more than once in my life. Because a lot of yeah, a lot of times there's a bachelorette parties will have a kind of body scavenger hunt kind of thing where they're like, but they're all dares, like the bride has to go do whatever to

whoever. Right. And I've been that guy a couple of times somehow where they're like, she wants to do I don't even know, like a shot out of your belly button or something dumb. Sure. It wasn't that, but just it's always stuff like that. Take a shot from a stranger's beard. I think I still have a bachelorette in my beard somewhere. There might be like whipped cream involved. Just go away. You don't want to be a part of any of this stuff. Yeah, it's true. Or at least I don't want to be. It's just embarrassing for me.

They'll put a penis shaped straw in your mouth faster than you can say what the heck's going on. I know. You open your mouth to say, wait a minute and there it goes. So Chip and Dale show up in 1979 by 1981 the word bachelorette party is coined in a New York Times article. And they're just talking basically about what you might think of as more of like a spa weekend today, not the bachelorette party like you just described. That didn't come along until about the 80s or the 90s. And one of the reasons why, at least I should say in the United States, definitely in the early 90s in the UK, some people say, no, it still wasn't even a thing in the early 90s in the US. But one of the reasons why they became

bodier and bodier and more and more extravagant and more and more out and proud basically. Proud is the wrong word, but you understand what I mean is because people started getting married later and later. And so they didn't have to go to their parents and be like, I need $5,000 to throw this party that you would not want me to have ever in a million years. They had their own money and their friends had their own money because they weren't getting married at 21 and then starting their professional life. They've been working for a decade already before now they're going to get hitched. And that changed everything. That was the big sea change for bachelor parties that in my opinion made them no longer make sense

in that context any longer because people weren't getting married basically as children. They were getting married as grown adults now. And so it doesn't make sense to go back and behave like children a few days before you get married. That's what I'm saying. No, I'm with you. And also that sort of was in lockstep with the rise of a party industry that kind of marched in lockstep with it. So people started having more money because they were getting married later. And all of a sudden there was this industry surrounding it where you just have to call a company if you want to. And you can also plan your own stuff, of course, and people still do that. But I mean, Livia gave one example. There was a scholar

named Diane Tai who interviewed. And of course, this is all again, that thankfully they don't do a lot of studies like real studies on this stuff. But she did some interviews with middle class Eastern Canadian middle class white women in the mid 90s and then interviewed the same type of people in 2017 and 18. And the big difference was in the mid 90s, they were all just sort of planning the stuff from scratch. And by the time the 2010s came along, you would call a company up and there would be a script basically where you drank these, you know, colored sugary drinks. And there was a penis cake and games, you know, pin the pin the penis on the playboy and there might be male strippers and just a lot of phallic stuff happening.

Yeah, but you know, it's like it's one thing to plan all that from scratch. Like that is your best friend who did that for you. So I think for your best friend to just like email a company and be like, I need it, I need this on this night and we'll show up and then that's it, you know, the soul's taken out of it a little bit. Oh, no, I totally agree. Because any party you throw for someone should have that personal planning touch, I think, you know? Yeah. So hats off to the maids of honor from the early 90s. Shout out to them. Right. That's right. If you do any kind of research on Bachelor and Bachelorette parties, you will find a lot of articles kind of starting in the late 90s.

Yeah. Everywhere from like Vice to Maxim to the New York Times. And they're all written a little mournfully and sadly where they're saying like, you know, the old days of the wild hedonistic bachelor parties are going the way of the dodo. And these days, guys just want to go on a fly fishing trip and ladies just want a nice spa weekend with some good wine and Perseco. And isn't it a shame almost that that guys aren't going out and trying to have sex with one more lady before their wedding day? Right. They're very annoying to read to me. Yeah, no, it's true for sure. And like they always like interview somebody who's like, what's going on? This is terrible, you know? We can't let this happen. Exactly. But the thing is

from all appearances, the bachelor party is not actually going away anytime soon. The rowdy, raucous bachelor and bachelor at parties. Again, yes, more and more people are coming up with alternatives that suit them and their friends and their, you know, demeanors much more. They're just like, I don't need to be publicly humiliated because this is some sort of rite of passage that, you know, my dad went through and my older brother, who cares? I'm not going to do that anymore. And I think that that sentiment has really kind of freed people quite a bit. But there's still, I would say the vast majority of a bachelor and bachelor at parties are of this very stereotypical kind that you imagine. Yeah. And you know what? I haven't even been to

many of those. My dude friends, I feel like a few of them had those and I was out of town when they got married. So I was just around for the wedding, but I went to one of them, of one of my good friends who had kind of a stereotypical, I mean, there were no like sex acts, but you know, there were strip clubs and just debauchery. And I was so like, all that stuff just makes me, it's not even uncomfortable, but nervous. Like, oh, I just, I've seen too many movies and we'll get to the movies in a second. Or just, I don't know, just bad luck coming that I just don't want to be super involved. And these are like close friends sometimes. And so for that one, I was the, and I'm not putting myself up as some like saint or anything at all,

but I just don't want to be involved in that level of hard parting for the night. And I was the driver. We rented a van and I sober drove everyone around, drove him to all the places. We saw Snoop Dogg at a strip club in Atlanta, which was kind of fun. Sweet. And he remarked that we all had sideburns. This was the 90s after all. So Snoop Dogg recognized us. He was, well, I'll tell you what he said later, in private, but as soon as I got them back to the rented hotel and everyone was, you know, going to be in one place, I said good night and I left. Oh yeah. You're like, okay, you're all safe. Goodbye. Thank you. That was it. And I heard the stories later and I was like, boy, am I glad I left. Right. And these are people that I love and I'm not judging them,

but it's just never been my scene. I'm too nervous about that kind of thing. Yeah. But again, I think it's really cool that younger people today, and younger means, I guess, people in their 30s even as far as we're concerned, Chuck, like that they are comfortable saying, I don't really want to do that at everybody. Do we have to do that? And everybody else is saying, no, we don't have to do that. Let's figure something else out. Yes. You know? And again, if you're really, really into bachelor parties and you are so psyched that your best friend is going to throw you just a rager of a bachelor party, man hats off to you. Like, I don't think anything we're saying is meant to like, like you said, yuck that young. No, be safe. I just think it's cool

that there's, there's people are like, okay, cool, you know, let's do something different instead and they feel comfortable doing that because it shows that America and the West is growing up. Let's take a break. Okay, we'll be right back. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, frosted tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough, or you're at the end of the road. Okay, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help this. I promise you. Oh God.

Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh man. And so my husband, Michael, um, hey, that's me. Yep, we know that Michael and a different hot, sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide you through life step by step. Not another one. Kids relationships life in general can get messy. You may be thinking this is the story of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody you everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never ever have to say bye bye bye. Listen to frosted tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikular and to be honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment I was born,

it's been a part of my life in India. It's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention because maybe there is magic in the stars if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, kpop. But just when I thought I had to handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world came crashing down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer,

I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. We promised talk of movies. You can't talk about bachelor or bachelorette parties without talking about movies because there are movies called bachelor party. There was one called The Bachelor Party from 1957. I want to see this movie. I kind of do too. I was based on an old stage, I'm sorry, TV play, but this is sort of one of those things where goodness wins in the end because the newlywed, inevitably it's revealed that his home life, his secure, quiet home life is much better than his playboy friends who kind of plans this evening.

Right. And the potential love interest is played by Morticia Adams. Oh, okay. Caroline Jones, I think was her name. I don't know if I've ever seen her not in her Morticia get up. It's odd. You can tell it's her if you know that it's her, but it's just, you know, it just doesn't quite look like her. Gotcha. And then there's like the hilarious, typical boomer humor of how to murder your wife, a 1965 Jack Lemon movie who figures out that he married a not great woman who was the person who jumped out of his friend's cake at The Bachelor Party the night before. Which the hangover totally stole. Yeah. Ed Holmes married Heather Graham. Sure. So, I don't know if we should jump forward to the hangover yet because

that was just such a monumental movie as far as the bachelor party genre goes. Chuck, that I want to give it its due. Yeah, yeah, we'll wait on that because we have to park it at 1984's Bachelor Party with Tom Hanks, who Olivia points out like if you only know sort of today's Tom Hanks and you haven't seen that. Yelling at people in the airport to get away from his wife. Yeah, exactly. This is very off brand for him, but on brand for him back. Well, not on brand, but you know, he did a lot of kind of different kind of comedies earlier in his career. And I used to love the movie Bachelor Party. I thought it was so funny looking back on it now. It is kind of an, I mean, it's still funny in a lot of ways, but it also has, you know, transphobia

and casual racism here and there. And of course, women are sexually objectified through the whole thing. There's a donkey that they almost get to have sex with a woman. But it's sort of a red herring because the donkey dies of a drug overdose before it can happen. But I still love Bachelor Party. I haven't seen it in a long time, but that was one of my movies in college. Very Bad Things was a dark comedy where there was the accidental killing of a sex worker. That was such a terrible movie. I saw it back then. It wasn't good at all. No, and not like, oh, the acting's bad or the direction, but it's like, it's just the concept of it. It was meant to be funny and it wasn't, like it really missed the mark and just made the whole thing just terrible. Tonally, it was

a mess. This is 98. Yeah. I'm like, in my early 20s, and I'm like, this is reprehensible. Yeah. You know? The Hangover finally came along in 2009, which took the place of Bachelor Party, I think is sort of the quintessential. Definitely. Bachelor Party movie. And I'm still on record as thinking the first Hangover was a very, very funny movie. Okay. You didn't like it, right? I think we've talked about this before. Not really. I mean, it's fine if I'm not gonna try to detract from it. I know it's like one of the most successful movies of all time. Yeah, I thought it was very funny. I thought Zach Galifianakis was great. Yeah. And what's his name? Mike Tyson. No. Well, I thought Ed Helms was great. Sure. And I thought Ken Jong.

Yeah. Was very, very funny. And I just thought it was very funny. Okay. And the sequel is terrible. Was it the one set in Thailand? Yeah, it wasn't good at all. I did not think Bradley Cooper was very good in the Hangover, though. He didn't have a good role written for him. He had to play the straight man for everybody else. Kind of the jerk. Yeah. Yeah. But I love Zach and Ed and Ken Jong, although they're very funny. Yeah. What about Bridesmaids? Have you seen that? I have not seen that one. Oh, Bridesmaids is great. Yeah. It is really, really funny. Yep. I've heard nothing, but... Yeah, you should check out Bridesmaids, Kristen Wiig. Just the plain scene with Kristen Wiig is worth the admission price alone. Yeah. That one came out in 2011, and there was this

kind of grassroots, pro-feminist social media movement around it, saying, go see it. I saw it described as a... I can't remember the wording they used, but basically, if you're a feminist or you're for women's rights, you have to go see that movie, basically. That it was like that groundbreaking and monumental, and it basically said, okay, women can have the same kind of movies as men. Yeah, absolutely. It's like the women's version of the Hangover in a lot of ways, at least as far as genre stuff goes. I think it was more well written than the Hangover, for sure. Yeah. It was funny. And then there was a movie that I don't know how I never heard of this movie from 2017 called Rough Night, and it was... Had Scarlett Johansson and Elana Glazer and Zoe Kravitz

and Kate McKinnon and Jillian Bell, huge cast. Never even heard of this movie, but it's sort of like a bachelorette party that goes wrong, sort of like very bad things, but it wasn't critically reviewed very well. But the filmmaker's great, because she does that... Along with her husband does that TV show Hacks, which is really, really good. Oh, yeah. So maybe the movie just missed the mark, or maybe, you know, I need to see it and judge it for itself, but not well reviewed. Okay. What else? That's it. That's all the movies I got. Okay. So I think we've talked quite a bit about the fact that humiliating the bride or groom is like a thing, and part of that is kidnapping them. So

it's not just humiliation, it's domination too. And that typically comes through in the idea that the bride or the groom is kidnapped at some point. They're taken against their will, and they don't have any say in the planning. Like this is done for them, but also done to them. Yeah, that's... I can't imagine anything scarier than going to a bachelor party that was planned without my knowledge. Right. So apparently in Australia, they're Bucks parties, all of them start with a kidnapping, and like a serious kidnapping, so much so that I saw an article about, you know, imaginative ways to kidnap the groom to be. And they were saying, do not do it on the street in broad daylight, like in a van, because the cops will be called.

But apparently that's how seriously they take it, that they need to actually tell people not to do that. Wow. They're like, how else are you supposed to kidnap someone? Yeah, and those can get out of hand with... This is when the practical jokes come in play. There was one account from a journalist, David Boyer in his book, Bachelor Party Confidential, where... And this is so wrong and mean. Where these friends, quote unquote friends, got this groom so drunk that he passed out, and then they had his leg put in a full cast and told him that he broke it, and did not tell him until after his honeymoon. Yes, like not... To Fiji.

Not like the night before the wedding, or even after the wedding, after the honeymoon, they finally told him that his leg wasn't actually broken. That's not funny. I think it's funny. I think it's hilarious up until like the wedding, and then you tell him, and he's just washed over with relief, and that's hilarious. To not tell him before the wedding, so he's up on crutches that he doesn't need, and then the honeymoon is the real clincher, I think, then they... That was just mean. Yeah. But it was funny at the point. It was like letting him ruin your expensive honeymoon. For sure. You can't go swimming in Fiji.

Right. I thought great conception, poor execution. Yeah, like day before the wedding, they all take the hammer out and break the cast up. That's a fun scene. Sure. All right, well, let's wrap it up with a little bit on money. These things are quite expensive, or can be quite expensive these days. There was a survey by savings.com, and we should point out that out of the 500 people they surveyed, they made 40% of them made over 100 grand a year. These are well-funded people, but they said the average cost for a man's bachelor party is about $1,500, and a bachelorette party

was about $900, and 75% said it was like a weekend event, and 66%, it was a destination thing. 16% was international, so these things have gotten really expensive, and I think they interviewed about half the people very quietly said, hey, I think it's gotten a little too expensive, and it's gotten a little out of hand, but I felt like I had to do it. I read that this was not fully but largely attributable to the rise of Instagram, and that people are now trying to make their lives just look so amazing, and the bachelorette and bachelor party is such a big part of the life at that age that's definitely something they spend money on just to Instagram it, basically.

I'm going to start once a week, I should just start posting pictures of my bare beer belly. Just to fight that whole notion that life is perfect. Oh, I got you. You know what I mean? What filter will you use? There is no filter. Oh my God, Chuck. It hasn't been invented yet. You've gone mad.

Just log on to Chuck the Podcaster for some disgusting photos of me. Yeah, right. Doing heart hand sunset over your beer belly. Over my beer belly. I pledge, and that's my attempt to make the world a better place. I think that's a great idea, Chuck. I support that 100%. I will like every single one of those posts.

Oh, you're going to hurt my stomach? For sure. You got anything else? Oh, thankfully no. Okay, that's it for Bachelor and Bachelorette parties. I'm sure we could go on. There's more details, but you know, just go to a Bachelor or Bachelorette party and see what you think. And since I said that, it's time for Listener Mail.

Yeah, but before the Listener Mail, another reminder that after we read this, you can check out a preview of Obsessions Wild Chocolate, the great new show from our old friend, Mangesh. Excellent. I'm going to call this, oh, and by the way, we need to shout out another Listener Mail real quick. We heard from Diarrhea Planet. Oh, yeah?

Did you see that email? No, I didn't see that. I got a good check. Yep, we got an email from them and they said, hey guys, we heard that you were talking about us again. Please stop. And I'm sure you've heard that we have a reunion show coming up in Nashville. And then they said, if it sweetens the pot, you guys are our guests for the night.

Sweet. And I really want to go, but it's in the two days of Thanksgiving week. Right. And Nashville, and that's just a tall order Diarrhea Planet to talk my family into today. And I'm like, hey, I'm going to leave Thanksgiving week for a night to go see Diarrhea Planet. Right.

It leaves understanding, but that may draw, that may be where the line is drawn. Yes, but regardless whether we make it or not, that was very, very kind of Diarrhea Planet to offer. What I want them to do is come to Atlanta and do another show. Right. Because I'm all like. You're like chomping on a cigar.

You're like, you come to make. Yeah, come to me, baby. All right. So I'm going to call this thanks for the company. Hey guys, been listening to stuff. You should know my drive to work for about three years. An old coworker introduced me to the show. And I would look forward to our discussions on each episode every morning over coffee.

I recently had a baby girl and my husband and I agreed that it was best that I stay home for a little while. After about four months in, I noticed I was showing some signs of postpartum depression. And it hit me one morning. But that what I really just missed was those morning chats in the office and the free coffee. So I started an episode with you guys and began deep cleaning our home. Decluttering and organizing has always been something that made me feel better. And every day I continue to tune in and clean during naps.

Presumably your baby's naps because that would be amazingly efficient. If you can clean right now. I now have those same discussions with my husband when he gets home from work. And I really just want to say thanks for the company. The memories and the new ones to come. And that is from Anonymous. Great. Thank you, Anonymous. That was a wonderful email.

And I'm glad we could fill that little hole for you, right Chuck? Totally. And if you want to let us know about something nice we did for you and we didn't even realize we did, we love hearing that stuff. You can send it to us in an email to stuffpodcastatihartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts, My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app. Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

I'm in the copilot seat of the small Cessna plane. And we're circling the Bolivian Amazon. Beside me, the pilot's sweating. Because we're looking for a place to land and we can't find one. The weather was bad and the pilot was nervous and it was quite exciting. Behind me is this guy I just met a day ago. This German cacao hunter named Volker Lehmann. Volker looks a bit like the German director Werner Herzog.

Sounds like him too. The more dangerous or tricky the situation gets, the calmer I get. It's 2010 and Volker's letting me tag along as he searches for a holy grail. Wild cacao, the tree that gives us chocolate. Cacao's native to the Amazon and now it's farmed all over the tropics, mostly in Africa. A few years before our trip Volker stumbled upon an incredible variety of wild cacao in Bolivia and he turned it into this mind-blowing chocolate. So now there's a gold rush for these magic beans and Volker's hope is to stay one step ahead.

There's an indigenous group in the forest called the Yurokare. Rumor has it they have a ton of wild cacao to sell. So the plan is, fly in, find a landing strip, take a dugout canoe to the Yurokare village, strike a deal. The lowest the jungle looks otherworldly. The whole thing is steaming, misrising to form these immense thunderheads. And the thunderheads are dropping ropes of black rain back to the forest. At one point we punch through a storm and water comes spitting through the vents of the plane. I shoot a glance at the pilot like, what? But he just waves me off.

It's getting hard to tell what to worry about and what not to worry about. For that all I can do is count on Volker because he's been navigating the Amazon for 20 years. This part of Bolivia is all rainforest and grasslands. It's also a major cocaine flyway. The rivers are dotted with these homemade landing strips and small planes swoop in, pick up the drugs and head for Brazil. Those landing strips are super convenient if you need to get into the deep woods quickly, which we do. But it's also super dangerous. Hundreds of people get shot in the Amazon every year for all sorts of reasons. Just being an environmental activist is enough.

But stumbling upon a cocaine lab, that's one of the surest ways to make it happen. But when you need a landing strip, you need a landing strip. The problem is that it's the rainy season and everything is flooded. The rivers have risen like 30 feet. The trees are in standing water. The ground is gleaming like a mirror. At last there's a strip near a small cabin on the river. But it's really short. The rain swamped part of the landing strip and the landing strip was homemade. It's not an official landing strip. The pilot swoops down to get a closer look and he doesn't like what he sees. And neither do I. He pulls back up and circles the area, looking for alternatives. But there are no alternatives. The pilot keeps circling back

to that original strip like he's trying to psych himself up. And for all I know, we're running low on fuel. Yet Volcker's still sitting there like it's another day in the park. And that is making me more nervous. Because I can tell that his appetite for risk is a lot higher than mine. And then the pilot banks the plane toward that strip. For a second I think, well this must be another reconnaissance run. Because nobody would let, oh no, he's going for it right now. The ground is rising in front of us fast. So I grab the handle above the door, tuck my head, and brace. And we hit. Actually, it's the wrong word. It's super soft, thanks to all that spongy ground. So we break hard and slam to a stop, spraying puddles.

And I'm like, we made it. So I grab my pack and hop out. Volcker's behind me. And it's like, hello Amazon. It's a cathedral when you're on the ground. There's these massive trees that are dripping thick vines. There's flocks of actual parrots screeching through the canopy. And then, from that little cabin up ahead, four guys emerge and they're holding rifles. There were like one guy coming and then the second and the third and the fourth. And then they were surrounding us. And I was looking at the pilot. And he said, I have to leave because of the weather. And nobody said anything. And so he turned around his plane and off he went. And then I realized, oh, we are in the middle of some people we don't know. I was nervous.

I am trying not to make any fast moves because these guys look twitchy. And everything they say confirms my worst fears. They're watching this place for their boss who's a Colombian man. And we've just landed on his private runway without permission. And I've been in the Amazon for all five minutes. And I'm starting to wonder if maybe I'm not really cut out for this cacao anything. And all I can do is look over at Volcker and think, I hope you got this. From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcasts, this is Obsessions, Wild Chocolate. I'm Rowan Jacobson, Chapter One, The Hunt. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart Podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass.

Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to believe. You can find in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject,

something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.