Suggestible - Big Magic and Sci-Fi Books

Episode Date: September 1, 2022

Suggestible things to watch, read and listen to. Hosted by James Clement @mrsundaymovies and Claire Tonti @clairetonti.This week’s Suggestibles:06:02 Dear John by Sam Buckingham13:56 The Hobbit by J.R.R Tolkien14:56 Mickey7 by Edward Ashton20:14 Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear by Elizabeth Gilbert23:10 The Signature of All Things by Elizabeth Gilbert33:26 The Story of "A Thousand Miles" by Vanessa CarltonSend your recommendations to [e-mail], we’d love to hear them.You can also follow the show on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook @suggestiblepod and join our ‘Planet Broadcasting Great Mates OFFICIAL’ Facebook Group. So many things. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, this is Katnett Unfiltered. If you know us, then you know that we do almost everything together, so accommodating seven kids and seven adults on vacation can be challenging. So, we Airbnb it. And if you have a spare room in your house, you can Airbnb it. It's that simple. You can even Airbnb your whole house while you are away. You could be sitting on an Airbnb and not even know it.

Whether you could use extra money to cover some bills or for something a little more fun, your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. Wow. I've never heard such vibrancy in your bing bongs. And perhaps it's because we've had a month off, Claire. It is. This will be interesting. I'm a little husky. I hope the listeners enjoy the huskiness.

I had laryngitis last week. Ooh, the sexiest of all diseases. It's so funny. I was speaking to a friend of ours, Sean, who had it recently too, and he's like, yeah, the first day you're like, oh, this is fun. Listen to me. I sound like I'm sexy and smugging. And then the next day you're like, this is really freaking annoying. Then your voice completely disappears and you're like,

I need my voice. Yeah, you need your voice. For everything. I was like Ariel in The Little Mermaid. I was sign languaging everything. And I realized how loud I am all the time. You know the thing about Ariel is? Yes. Weak as piss, mate. What are you doing? What are you doing? Look at this guy and you're like, yeah, this is the guy. I'm going to, the book's even weirder. I'm sure we've talked about this, but she gets rejected and then is turned to sea foam at the end, which is like, oh, well, I guess I shouldn't have dreamed of anything slightly bigger. Hans Christian Andersen, mate.

The real version, I've got a very, very old copy of Hans Christian Andersen and they're all awful and terrible. The little match girl. Oh, my God. She's like an orphan that sells matches and she ends up dead on the street. It's awful. It's just all awful. These were warnings to kids that were just like, Hey, we'll kill you. Be careful. We'll kill you. Someone will kill you. Actually, I will say. Stay in your lane. Probably maybe at that time, some of them were fairly on point.

Yeah, I know. But it was also like. That time is very brutal. You could just get a disease or like you roll your ankle. And then you're dead. And then your foot falls off the next month. Well, this is what I mean. So even though, yes, problematic and like Little Red Riding Hood, don't get me started. Don't stray off the path, ladies. You'll get eaten by a wolf.

It's true. You just stay small. Or at least walk with your keys in your hand, ready to punch a wolf right in the mouth right in the snout the wolf snout that's a wolf getting punched in the snout yeah as it runs away i just always never bought the end of that story what the huntsman's just like i'm here don't worry i'm a god i've just been introduced but i'm here to help no before that when the wolf is literally lying in her bed

dressed as her grandmother and she's like, wash big ears. You have a wolf that is like, in what world does a grandmother look like a wolf? Well, depending on the grandma. But also it's like weird Kong by the wolf. Like weird theatre cosplay kid energy to be like, you don't need to do any of that. You go in, you eat the old woman, and then when the door opens,

you're like, I'm a wolf. I'm going to eat you too. Ridiculous. What, he swallowed her whole, the grandma? Because in some versions, the grandma gets cut out. It's so weird. That's what I mean. Also, that's so weird.

So he eats the grandmother. Same version, she's in a cupboard or something. But usually she gets swallowed, and then the woodcutter comes and goes, don't worry, I'll cut your stomach open. And then grandma just steps out. No, she's been like swallowed in the digestive tract. Grandma falls out in like a sea of like weird intestines and is dead. Isn't there a version where like the wolf, maybe I'm making this up,

is like infinitely hungry because it's got like an opening in its stomach so it can never be full or something. I feel like you made that up. I think I've imagined that, yeah. Maybe that's my person all right. Maybe that's like a deep insight into your psychology. Maybe it is. You're forever hungry.

You'll never satisfied. You can never be satisfied. Oh, you saw Hamilton. I saw Hamilton. Do you want to talk about Hamilton? Oh, this is suggestible where we talk about things that we've read, watched or listened to or whatever. I'm Claire Tonti.

Jane's here also. We are married and we've been on break and we're so excited to be back. And on that note, do I want to start by talking about Hamilton? Because I feel like we might lose some looseners. Maybe we'll save it to the end then. All right. Stick around for my review of Hamilton. Just trying to Google this infinitely hungry, infinitely hungry wolf. You totally made that up. But also you need to copyright that because maybe that's like something you should copyright. It's absolutely nothing. I would never write that story.

Make a movie. If I write, people would be like, why did you write Little Red Riding Hood and then tack on a very weird ending? Maybe that's just subconsciously my spirit animal. Maybe it is. Just endlessly hungry. Endlessly hungry wolf. That's me.

All right, would you like to go first for this episode? Oh, I totally would. Our inaugural back from holidays. Oh, thank you to everybody who stuck around, who went on Big Sandwich, who subscribed because there were still things there. People who have been really supportive of this, us taking a break. We feel, I feel really good having taken a break. Yeah, me too.

I feel so grateful to everyone. Exactly. If you're back here, thank you so much for coming back. And, yes, I agree. I feel really, other than the laryngitis, really rested. And I think after all the couple of years, however you can in your life, I'd recommend my first recommendation would be just chilling out a little. If you can.

Somehow, if you can, if you've got a little bit of time, taking some rest. Yeah, I agree. It's all good, however you do it. How have you done it? I mean, we went to the beach in Fiji. That's true. That was pretty fun. Not just any beach.

Not just St. Kilda Beach, the worst beach in Australia. I saw an octopus. I spent like half an hour with an octopus. I got very teary. And it's so clever and smart and it was playing with me behind a rock. I don't know if I got too into my octopus teacher, but I think actually it was amazing. And it changed color and its tentacles were like electric blue.

Yep. It was amazing. What did you think of the snorkelling? It was all right. Hey. I had to drag you to the snorkelling, P.S. Just like on our beach holiday that we went, which we hadn't been overseas in years and years,

and James spent most of it reading by the water. Yep. Or asleep. Or asleep, yep. And on the last, second-largest day, I was like, you have to go snorkeling. This is like world famous snorkeling. I was like, fine, I'll go snorkeling. And then you loved it.

It was pretty good. We were out there too long. Mason, Claire, what's your first recommendation? Whatever. Jeez. We haven't recorded anything yet, so we've got to get back into that this week as well. All right. Well, I'm breaking the ice for you.

Let's do it. There you go. I was going to say pop on your cherry, but that's getting very weird considering I'm your wife and you call me Mason. I didn't realize I was marrying Mason as well when I married you. Actually, I did. Believe it. I knew that already.

So first recommendation, rest. Very fun. Second recommendation would be not having laryngitis. But third recommendation, I did a lot of listening to music on my break, which is unusual for me because I did have a lot of books and I will get to those as well. I read and I didn't really watch a lot of movies and things, which I thought I would, but I listened to a hell of a lot of music.

And one new artist I found, Sam Buckingham, she's been around quite a long time. She's an Australian singer-songwriter from Byron Bay, the very famous Byron Bays. That's where Chris Hemsworth owns. Correct, exactly. She is a very awesome, cool person. But her latest album is called Dear John, and my goodness,

Dear James, it's good. Let me tell you about her. And I have listened to this so much on my holiday. I just loved it. So following the release of her previous two albums, I'm a Bird and The Water, the acclaimed Byron Bay-based singer-songwriter has taken a different approach in the sound for her third album, Dear John. It's moving from indie folk Americana and delves straight into alternative pop

with lots of lute pedals and kind of interesting textual sounds. You love a lute pedal. I love a lute pedal, my God. Just one listen to the first few singles, I'll say, not albums, singles from the new record Something More Run or the title track Dear John and you're instantly hooked. So the lyrics are raw, honest and emotive. And what's really interesting and what I think stands out about this album

so much is that it's clearly about the breakdown of her relationship that was emotionally abusive and had a lot of coercive control. Right, right, right. And so I think the lyrics and the melodies are really catchy and the lyrics of the chorus is really catchy. They'll stick in your head immediately. But once you start to really listen, you see that she's talking about female empowerment particularly and that idea that someone can rob you of your very kind of vibrancy

and what you believe in and who you are and how that can sneak up on you and the kind of lies that we tell ourselves in those kind of toxic relationships. And it's really defiant and joyful. Like, for instance, Dear John, which is the title track, in the soundtrack, in the video clip she shaves her head and it's so liberating and kind of she's eating a piece of cake, which I know sounds kind of, I don't know, whatever it sounds.

I love it so much because there's layers in here about women needing to fit into particular boxes and needing to stay small and needing to stay kind of humble and hungry and questioning themselves constantly. And I think it's so liberating to see her kind of barrelling the camera and there shaving her head and just being like, I am this person and I've done so much work on myself emotionally to stand here now because I know people in our, we both know people in our lives

who've been through really toxic relationships where the person has kind of robbed them of everything, of who they thought they were, of their self-esteem and self-worth, even when it's not physically abusive. Emotional abuse can be so corrosive. And I think it's just so exciting to see an artist embrace herself completely and also then give that gift to her audience. And you can see that in the kind of connection and community that she's built around her music as well. It's just so many people resonating with that message of reclaiming who they are and also reclaiming themselves as artists as well and being okay with that. It's so powerful. There's another track I

really recommend you listening to, as I mentioned, called Something More, and that's probably my favourite one. She barrels the camera and does like a dance routine with like, they kind of look like her friends and they're women of all different shapes and sizes. And that in itself is really liberating to see in a video clip. But the actual lyrics of the song are also about gender pay, equity and finding out who you are and looking for something more. And I think often women are put into boxes and then put themselves

in boxes and limit themselves with what they can do, which is why we miss out on a lot of art made by women because they, for whatever reason, either, I don't know, even in terms of motherhood are constrained by, you know, having limited time and resources, but then also their own sort of self-belief and self-worth too. So there's just a lot in there about fighting against violence as well, against women too. And anyway, she's amazing. I'm going to see her live on Friday night. Oh, awesome. I know. So one of the things I've really reflected on over our break is that I want to bring

more live music back into my life. And I think COVID especially, we just couldn't go and see much. No one likes a Zoom concert. Awful. No, terrible, right? Or a Fortnite concert. Oh, lordy. I don't even know what that is.

It's just you're in Fortnite and there's a concert happening. Some would like Snoop Dogg's like, I'm here too. Oh, no, no good. I remember those like celebrity play reads. Hated it. Hated all of that. The only one I kind of semi-enjoyed was the one where Shia LaBeouf was in his car sweating with a towel while like Jennifer Aniston

and Brad Pitt were having a moment. Fuck him. Do you remember that video? I don't want to get into that. He's a fucking piece of shit. He's on his apology tour at the moment but he sucks. Just a quick question about the cake and haircut situation. Does any of the hair get into the cake? Surprisingly, I couldn't see any, but you're right. Maybe it feels like it probably did, but they cut it out in filming. Oh, so it wasn't like one take. No, no, no. There's

lots of cuts being made. Interesting. I love that. I love that idea. Yeah. It's really amazing. And it's kind of this like really delicious cream layered strawberry cake with all these strawberries on top. And so also what's interesting about that, right, is you've only got one take to do that. One cake? One cake and one take. Oh, to shave your head. Yeah, that's it. Like if something happens, I mean, obviously they cut it together for the cake, but you can't go back and redo it no like something happens to the footage i think i like that though like the imperfections of it it's just like well this is it so whatever we're making here this is yeah what's happening and you kind of get that feeling as well like she has some

funding from the government to be able to make her art but she's really working on a shoestring budget because she's producing it independently yeah right, right. Which is also really interesting. I mean, she's toured with really big names in Australia like Kate Miller-Heike and Paul Kelly. But she has really had to bring in as many resources as she possibly could. Yeah. And the video clips kind of show that in her film clip for Run.

It's just her in like 80s active wear and kind of in a studio doing a dance to the camera while it and kind of in a studio doing a dance to the camera while it's kind of circling her. I think that's really interesting that like you can, it encourages you to like be more creative and you could just do like a standard video clip. I don't know, you're black and white and you're in a sad room or whatever. But, yeah, I think that's really interesting and like in a good way

to kind of get your stuff out there by doing something unique like that. Yeah, I think so too. Sometimes no budget can be a good way to kind of get your stuff out there by doing something unique like that. Yeah, I think so too. Sometimes no budget can be a good thing. Yeah, and that's exactly right. I think what's interesting too is the dance routine one that she does for Something More. They're filming in a suburban street and then it starts to rain. I live in a suburban street.

Oh, my goodness. I feel like I can relate to this. Anyway, but in her Instagram, one of her sort of clips where she was writing about the behind the scenes, she said they did so many takes of that and the one that they nailed was the one when it started raining. But it's actually really cool because there's kind of rain on the lens of the camera and it kind of is amazing as she's doing this dance routine walking towards the camera with this group of really cool women.

I've got it here, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's just awesome. Anyway, her name is Sam Buckingham. Go follow her. If you're lucky enough to be in Australia, she's on tour at the moment. What's the yeah. Yeah, it's just awesome. Anyway, her name is Sam Buckingham. Go follow her. If you're lucky enough to be in Australia, she's on tour at the moment. What's the cake one called? That's Dear John. Gotcha.

Yeah, she's in kind of curlers in it. It's sort of very, well, like, you know, the idea of a Dear John letter. Yeah. It's very kind of wartime. So she's in that sort of look. Really cool. Anyway, yeah, go follow Sam Buckingham. Over to you.

Out of 10, do you give a 10? I give a 10. Wow. I also give a 10, having not seen it, but I Stan Buckingham. Over to you. Out of 10, do you give a 10? I give a 10. Wow. I also give a 10, having not seen it but I've just added this to my watch later. Now, Claire, on holiday I had an opportunity to read some books. Did I read The Hobbit? Sure.

That's neither here nor there. I also watched all the Hobbit movies for Carrying Around in Garbage. They're coming up. My God. Do you want to have like talking about a feat of endurance is getting through 15 fucking hours of those movies. I feel like I deserve a medal too for dealing with your emotional rollercoaster while you were doing that.

I mean, having read the book, I'm like, this book's incredible. This is an incredible book. I've been telling you that for years. I know, but I started Lord of the Rings. I started Lord of the Rings. I'm like, this is boring. And I know you've got to kind of get into like a rhythm, but The Hobbit, it's so brisk and it's so fun

and it was written in like 1432 or what was it like in the 30s. It's amazing if you haven't read The Hobbit I recommend that really famous book and that's and watching the movies I'm like yeah no if you cut like 50 to

60% out of these movies there is like a good movie in here but But anyway, that's not, that's on, I read some other books. So I'll talk about another one next week. But this one is called Mickey Seven, one word, Mickey, and then the number seven is by Edward Ashton. It's a sci-fi novel, Claire. It's not super long. So if you just want a brisk, fun, light read, a little bit of sci-fi, then that's the kind of situation you're going to get here. Here is the explanation for what the book is, Claire. Mickey Seven is an expendable.

A disposable employee on a human expedition sent to colonise the ice world of Niflheim. Niflheim is like, that's a North mythology world. Is that a real place? No, but it is because they named this world in this story. So someone named a place Niflheim. Yeah, it's in Thor as well. It's like a different realm and whatever in Thor.

It sounds like Niflheim. It does sound like Niflheim. You're right, Claire, and we're definitely saying it wrong. So whenever there's a mission too dangerous, even suicidal, the crew turns to Mickey. So after one iteration dies, a new body is regenerated with most of his memories intact. So after six deaths, Mickey's seven, so he's on his seventh incarnation,

understands the terms of his deal and why it was the only colonial position unfilled when he took it. So it's a little bit Red Dwarf. You ever seen any Red Dwarf, Claire? Oh, I'm not a massive Red Dwarf person. Shock, but have seen it. It's good. There's a lot of really solid sci-fi ideas in there,

and I get ebbs and flows in terms of how good it is, but I've always been on board, and they keep making Red Dwarf every few years. It's so odd that you would be into sci-fi. I know. I'd performed a lot of my childhood, and I'm like, this is so weird and British. I love it.

And it's also a bit like The Martian, if you've read The Martian. It kind of reads like that. Like it's very brisk, and, you know, it's a bit kind of like, I would say it's like pop sci-fi, which sounds like an insult, but it's not. It's exactly what it's supposed to be and i like this idea of like he's not really skilled at anything so he's just like a guy who's like oh there's a radiation leak you need to fix it it's like well i'll die and it's like yeah no that's your job you die and then we print a different version of you and they have like a scan of his like last memory and then

he's put into it so he's essentially a new person every time with most of his previous memories wherever he saved them at. But very early on in the novel, like he's abandoned to die. It's like, ah, you know, because there'll be another version of you. But then there ends up being two versions of him, which is illegal. You're not allowed to have two versions of yourself because there was this, they get into the reasons why, but there was basically this guy who made a whole, it was like an Elon Musk type who made a whole planet worth of himself and tried to like take over the galaxy. So they're like, let's not, let's not have multiple copies of, of, of people anymore. So yeah, there's really interesting world building and it's about like space exploration and there's a bit of like, you know, like what is this?

What are, who's human? What am I? Am I human? If I'm a copy of a previous guy and whatever. And it's, it have, that's how we like, how it affects his relationships with people around him. Cause they're like, is this even a real person at this point? You know, is he have a soul even if that's something you believe in, if he's like a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy, uh, it's also deals a little bit of alien life and, and things like that. So I would say like, again, if you like the Martian, if you like fun

sci-fi, you should definitely get into this. And the reason I read this as well, for a couple of reasons. One, I had this exact idea like eight years ago and I never wrote it down. But not only that, it's because Bong Joon-ho is going to be directing this movie. That's going to be his next movie. So he did Snowpiercer. He did The Host. He did more recently Parasite.

Amazing. Which is an incredible director, South Korean director, and the movie's going to have Robert Pattinson in the lead. It's got like Mark Ruffalo. Your favourite. I think it's got. Love Mark Ruffalo. There's a Australian person in it. I really enjoyed him in the light-hearted movie Begin Again.

Oh, yeah, you like the movie Begin Again. It's got Tony Collette. That's right. Stephen Ewan's in it who was recently, well, he's in The Walking Dead, but he was in the movie Nope, which I watched recently, which I really liked. Yes, yes. So, yeah, I think it's very cool and fun and brisk,

and I'll talk about a bit more of a denser sci-fi book that I read next week. Fun times. You read so many books. I read two to three books, yeah. Which is a lot for you. Actually, I'm on like three and a half. I've kind of stopped because I've, you know, come back here and I'm doing less reading.

But it was nice to sit and read. And I love Kindles, Claire. I know you love physical books, but I love Kindles. And it's been like this has got all my books on it and whatever, except when there's like you get a scratch on the screen, which I did, and you can never get rid of it. So you turn the page and the scratch is still there. You keep turning and turning and the scratch doesn't disappear, Claire.

It's real annoying. I know. Also when the battery runs out because I'm really bad at charging things. Yeah, you're bad at charging things. I really am. One of the signs that I know that you love me is that I often wake up and my phone is plugged in. It's true.

And I haven't done it. That's mostly for me so I can call you during the day and be like, Claire, we're out of bread. If you're out, get some bread while you're out. We're always out of bread and milk. A lot of parenting is just being out of bread and milk. I feel like I don't even eat that much bread. Who's eating all the bread in our house?

I don't know. What's going on? I don't know. Do you have a bread bin, a literal bread bin? What do you mean a little bread bin? You mean a little bread elf? Yeah. It would be more likely.

Well, actually, I threw out probably a quarter of a loaf today because it would have gone moldy. Because of the mold. This is really interesting for everyone listening. I agree. I think people experience similar problems. Well, I think it's important for sustainability, like the waste that humans have.

And that speaks to this book because they're on this planet. They're restricted in calories of what they can eat every day. And when there's two of you and nobody knows that there's two of you, you've got to have those calories again, Claire. How do you survive on 800 calories a day? I'm like, you're being a deficit, a calorie deficit. You're being a calorie deficit. That's correct, Claire.

We know all about that. Yeah. We're the fish man fitness. Hi, this is Katnett Unfiltered. If you know us, then you know that we do almost everything together. So accommodating seven kids and seven adults on vacation can be challenging. So we Airbnb it. And if you have a spare room in your house, you can Airbnb it.

It's that simple. You can even Airbnb your whole house if you have a spare room in your house, you can Airbnb it. It's that simple. You can even Airbnb your whole house while you are away. You could be sitting on an Airbnb and not even know it. Whether you could use extra money to cover some bills or for something a little more fun, your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca slash host. Excellent. Can I go now? I would love you to talk about a sad thing or whatever you're going to do. Jan Buckingham is not a sad thing. She's not a triumphalist. No, no, no. But I mean, like, you're going to now talk about a sad thing.

Oh, am I? Yeah, probably. What made you think that? I can just tell. No, I'm going to talk about a book that I read that I loved. And actually, there is a segue, because you know how you said you had that idea for that book? Yes. Eight years ago.

Yeah. Well, one of the reasons I got onto the book I'm about to talk about is because I reread Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert, which I always do when I'm trying a new creative thing because it's really supportive and if you're someone tortured by creativity, it's just great. Not me. Everything I've ever done is terrific.

Anyway, all right. Oh, gosh. Arrogance. Assureness. But it's true and everybody thinks so. Just read my YouTube comments. They all seem to love you. Slash on a merdy.

All right. So you have people at both ends of the spectrum. Anyway, her idea is that we talked about this a while ago, that ideas are sentient and that ideas kind of come and go in the ether. And you have to be, they're looking for someone to make them become a reality. And so obviously this is just her idea of ideas, but I think that's a really cool way of thinking about it because I do think that things kind of float around in the ether and you might have that idea, but then if you don't like put it into being, it'll float

onto someone else, which I think often happens. And Liz Gilbert writes about, but I have other, other creators have said this me, that they'll have had an idea, they'll make the idea, and then someone will come to me like, I was going to do that idea and then you did that idea. I'll kill you. Yeah, and that actually happened to me with Just Make the Thing, the podcast. A friend of ours was like, I was going to make that exact thing,

but I didn't. Well, now you didn't. And now you didn't. Anyway, but I thought that was really interesting and that is why if you get an idea, you should just bring it into being. Absolutely. Because you can't sit on it because it will get made idea, you should just bring it into being. Absolutely. Because you can't sit on it because it will get made by someone else. Because I'll get it. I'm going to get it. If you've got an idea and you don't do it,

I'll take it from you. You won't even know and I'll do it. I'll do a bad version of it. Well, that's the other thing she says about creativity too, that ideas really want to get made, but they're looking for someone who's going to really work hard to get that out into the world. And if you're not someone that's going to give it 100%, it still might move on or you'll find someone else also makes that idea but makes it better. I don't know. I do feel like that sometimes happens with films and stuff, right?

Like the same kind of, I don't know, biopic about a particular character will be made a few different times. You know, like Winston Churchill, there was that year where like all these movies came out about Winston Churchill. Oh, yeah. I don't know. You know, like Winston Churchill, there was that year where like all these movies came out about Winston Churchill. Oh, yeah. I don't know. I just feel like that happens.

Caused a famine in India, killed like a billion people. I know. I'm not saying he's a great person. I'm just saying that there will seem to be a lot of biopics about him in a very short span of space time. Anyway, that's by the way, it's like that Hugh Jackman movie about the, he's a wizard or something. Oh, he's a magician.

Yeah. And there was another movie that was very similar to that. He was a magician's a wizard or something. Oh, he's a magician. Yeah. And there was another movie that was very similar to that. He was a magician and a wizard. Yeah. One is definitely better. It's the Hugh Jackman one. It's like Armageddon Deep Impact. Yes.

Thank you. Exactly. I just find that kind of interesting that obviously human consciousness is like thinking of similar things at the same time. Anyway, that led me to Segway, Elizabeth Gilbert's book that I've always wanted to read, The Signature of All Things. And it was the perfect book to read while I was on a tropical island. It's cool.

The story follows Alma Whitaker, who is the daughter of a botanical explorer, as she comes into her own within the world of plants and science. My goodness. Now, it's set in the 18th and 19th centuries, which is, I think, really interesting. Those are two of my favorite centuries. Oh, well, there you go. Not my top centuries. Probably this century is my favorite century are two of my favourite centuries. Oh, well, there you go. Not my top centuries. Probably this century is my favourite century, but they're up there, definitely.

Well, there you go. So, though Alma is the main character, the novel follows the fortunes of the whole family of Whittakers, as led by her father, the enterprising Henry Whittaker, who was born a poor Englishman and makes a great fortune in the South American quinine trade. So it's all about kind of botanicals is how she got into writing this book, which I find really interesting, is that she was really having writer's block and going through a really low period in her creativity.

And so to get unstuck, she started gardening. She moved to a new house and they didn't have a garden there, so she started creating a garden. And that kind of led her to start researching different plants. And then she ended up in the library. Then she started looking at kind of the beginnings of where certain plants came from and the exporting of plants. And it sort of led her down this big botanical research hole. And then she came up with this idea. And it's actually really fascinating where plants started and, and because they're really the beginnings of the pharmaceutical trade, right? Which I think is really interesting. So for example, Henry Whittaker, who is this kind

of poor kid in England, is working for, is it Joseph Banks? I'm pretty sure. Joseph Banks is like the really famous botanist who went on the expeditions with Captain Cook, you know, on the ship. So this is right at that time before the Industrial Revolution where colonisation is happening and it's horrible, right? Yeah. But. Captain Cook is eaten by, they ate him though, didn't they? Correct, by the natives on a particular island.

But what was interesting was that then it's kind of detailing that whole idea and how Henry Whittaker is sort of stealing plants from Joseph Banks, like really rare specimens and selling them on to really famous botanists. And then he gets found out. And because he's such an upstart and kind of such a, you know, he's got a lot of spunk and a lot of kind of jutzpa about him, Joseph Banks, rather than getting him hung, which is probably what would have happened, sets him out on an expedition with Captain Cook because he was too old to go on the ships anymore.

Right, right. And you know how brutal those ships were. He was probably like 32, yeah. Yeah, 28. And so then Henry kind of makes his way on these ships and somehow survives and collects all these plants and becomes an expert at kind of shipping plants around the world. And that becomes his kind of livelihood. And he eventually

becomes, and it's not a spoiler alert, it's in the very first chapter, becomes incredibly wealthy and becomes this big mogul. But a lot of it is because when he gets back after these long voyages where he nearly dies and freezes in the Arctic and has seen this whole world and he's worked so hard for Joseph Banks, he gets back and Joseph Banks makes fun of him and says he'll never be a gentleman when Henry Whittaker kind of walks in and wants to show him everything he's done for him. So then he. Damn, you'll never be a gentleman.

That's like you're a bitch of its time. Right, and you would love this. Also Captain Cook wasn't eaten, by the way. He was killed, yeah, but he wasn't eaten. I thought he was eaten. In the book they say he was eaten. Someone told me he was eaten. I don't know.

There's a rumour. It's a rumour, but apparently it's not actually true. That would have been really great. Anyway, because the island we were on, there were cannibals in Fiji at one point in their history. Interesting. Anyway, going back to this, you love a person fuelled by spite who then goes on to succeed.

It's my favourite thing. Correct. You love a vendetta. And that's basically what Henry Whittaker lives the rest of his life. He moves to America because he hates England then. He's like, this is all bullshit. Being a gentleman is bullshit. I'm never going to be anyone here because of their stupid classist system. So I'm going to steal all these plants from Joseph Banks and I'm going to go to America in Philadelphia and I'm going to become this giant mogul. And

that's basically what he does. He becomes like one of the wealthiest men in America. That man, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, Will Smith. He became Will Smith. You are correct, exactly. Anyway, Alma is his daughter. And what I like about her as a protagonist is that she's not attractive. She's like very sturdy. She looks exactly like her dad. Very sturdy but whip smart.

So they don't do one of those things. We talked about the men riding women Twitter or something where it's like her breasts were perky. They were very, they were like up high. They were like they were looking at you. They spent so much time. Oh, my God, describing her perched breasts and like. You should have seen them fly.

Incredible. Yeah, exactly. No, I love these armors, like really not very, like she's just very odd looking in general. She's got like bright red hair, very giant, sturdy, broad-shouldered, but incredibly smart and her dad was a really difficult, like kind of cantankerous guy. Well, he wasn't a gentleman.

No, he wasn't and obviously really ruthless as well, but he passed on and her mother was sort of this like very no-nonsense Dutch woman who Henry Whittaker marries because he sees in her someone who can help him build his empire because she's so smart and practical and, you know, to the point. And he kind of loves that about his wife. And then they raise Alma as this kind of like no-nonsense, incredibly kind of academic child who sort of explores the world of botany in this new kind of way. Anyway, it's really wonderful and like wide-reaching. It's exquisitely researched and told at a galloping pace from London to Peru to Philadelphia to Tahiti and

then eventually to Amsterdam and beyond. Along the way, the story's peopled with unforgettable characters, missionaries, abolitionists, adventurers, astronomers, sea captains, geniuses, and the quite mad, which is also really cool. They're really complex, interesting characters that deal with really amazing themes as it begins in the Age of Enlightenment but then moves into the Industrial Revolution and sort of bears witness to that extraordinary moment in human history when all the old assumptions about science, religion, commerce and class were exploding into dangerous new ideas.

So Darwin, Charles Darwin kind of features towards the end of the book as well. And it's written in a really bold questing spirit of that time. And I just, I really enjoyed it. It's a rollicking story and there's sort of love and all kinds of things in amongst it. But at the heart of it is kind of a quest for understanding why we are here and the kind of nature of all things, which I think is really, really interesting. And there's like a depth to it in terms of philosophy and spirituality. And at one point, Alma falls in love with this really eccentric guy who is really obsessed with the notion that God has left kind of patterns within plant life to show,

I guess it's that idea of the signature of all things, like to show that he exists. Oh, okay. And so things like plants that would be good for your liver are shaped like a liver and, you know, there's sort of within the natural world there's like a matrix that you can explore. There's an order. Yeah, and she's a scientist so she's very not that way at all.

She's like, no, that's complete bullshit and God doesn't exist and she kind of worships nature in a way and then she becomes obsessed with mosses and goes right deep into this exploration of moss and why it's so incredible. Why is moss so incredible? They talk about concepts of time. Well, because it lives for so long, it exists all over the world. When you look at it under a microscope, it's like a whole world in and of itself.

Would you use the word ecosystem? Yes, but also it creates like it eats rocks. Yeah. So she talks about it as human time and then moss time. So moss can eat a rock, but it might take hundreds of years to do that. But it's just because humans are like a seed time on one scale. You give me a rock, I'll eat that rock but it might take hundreds of years to do that but it's just because humans don't like to save time on one scale. I could eat a rock quicker than that. You give me a rock, I'll eat that rock in a month I reckon.

Done. Chip away at it. Excellent. Blend it into a smoothie. Let's do it. Do you know pregnant women, this is totally unrelated, but there is a disorder when you're pregnant where you start wanting to, you crave like eating rocks.

Yeah, there is that thing of like people have it with like terracotta as well. Yeah. It like completely ruins your teeth. Yeah. Oh, God. But there you go. If you're out there, I'm so sorry that's happening to you. Anyway, The Signature of All Things by Elizabeth Gilbert.

It was so interesting and it just coincidentally. It sounds like a mixture of history and fiction, Claire. Yes. It was my favourite sort of book or one of my favourite kind of books. I really love it because I learnt a lot at the same time as also being involved in the story. And I happened to be on a beautiful tropical island with an interesting history and there are a lot

of beautiful tropical islands within the book. Interesting. So it was a lot of sea travel and stories about sea travel. Tell you what, you wouldn't want to be on a ship in the 1800s. Nah, sucks. Brutal stuff. Also. They'd be like, here's your allocation of salt for the day.

That's your meal. Oh, my gosh, exactly. Here's some scurvy for you, mate. And if you're dead, we're throwing you to the sharks. It is wild though. She does a great job of kind of giving you an insight and it's obviously imagined insight into what it would be like to just launch off onto the seas with no idea of what you're going to find.

And then also kind of the ancient mind-blowing wisdom of particular Indigenous cultures like the Tahitians who explored the seas and knew everything about the stars and could navigate, you know, without the need of a map and all of that rich knowledge that the colonialists kind of were just like, nah, we're just going to like murder everyone and tell you all that Christianity and pretend we're better than you, when actually there's this kind of incredibly rich culture

that's much deeper and has much more wisdom and really just how, you know, colonisation completely screwed over everyone. Gunpowder is a hell of a thing. Including the people who were doing the colonising as well. Yes. Nobody's happy. Nobody's happy.

Does anyone sound happy? Just seems like a horrible, like they took these people who were like even really sexually free and liberated and loving their lives and, you know, obviously a lot of brutal parts of their culture too. But they kind of, you know, told them. And they put in a lot of things about like sexuality and what it means to be like a man or a woman.

Yeah, and like modesty and all this kind of stuff, which maybe at one point they did think was the right way but actually seems to not be very good for humans. And a lot of cultures like gender is quite fluid, you know. It's not just like this binary thing that a lot of people seem to be obsessed with. Exactly. Anyway, I loved it. The signature of all things.

All right, that's the episode. No, Claire, I've got one more thing. Oh, do share. This is a mini series that Vice have been doing, Vice the YouTube channel, right. It's basically on big musical kind of hits, like one-off things, like these mini documentaries, and you would love this. There's a couple of them I watched. One was on the song Teenage Dirtbag by Wheatus,

and the other one was the story of A Thousand Miles by Vanessa Carlton. So you remember this from early 2000s or both of those? I remember. Because I'm just a teenage dirtbag, baby. Exactly. Is it an I Would Walk? a teenage dirtbag, baby. Exactly. Is it an I would walk? No, I was going to say. Yeah, yeah.

She's playing the piano and she's in the street or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I've got 500 miles in my head. And I sing me the chorus. Oh, yeah. Da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na- Anyway, so it talks to the people involved, for example, like they interview Vanessa Carlton and her family and where she is now and it talks about how like this was a – she was kind of a struggling artist at the time and then all of a sudden she had this like that kind of – like the key moment from the song that people remember.

Yeah. And it became this huge hit and they even talk to like Terry Crews who sings it in White Chicks. I don't know if you've ever seen the movie White Chicks. No. Anyway, it's in that. So apparently he still gets people singing to him as well. And it also talks about how like the animosity that she's had with record labels

and how they're trying to put her into a certain box and she wasn't really interested in like being that way and kind of also the fallout and what happens to a person after you have this big hit and then like 20 years on. And it's interesting as well with the Teenage Dirtbag song. That wasn't a big hit in the US apparently, which I had no idea because it was huge here. It was like everywhere. And it's also huge in like other parts of Europe.

And look, Wheatus, to their defence, that album is like not a terrible album. I don't know if you've ever heard it. It's got some good stuff on it. And same with Vanessa Carlton. It's just really interesting going back 20 years to this year when I was like a teenager and these were like some of the biggest songs in the world. I just Googled the lyrics for A Thousand Miles

because I was singing the pretend. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, it's like if I could fall into the sky, do you think time would pass me by? Because you know I'd walk a thousand miles if I could just see you tonight. Yeah, that. Anyway, so iconic. But you're absolutely right.

There's that like it's that. That's so fascinating because what makes a song like that so huge compared to all the other songs? It's interesting because like they both have like key moments where they played that like the particular parts of their songs and like somebody else was there to be like, hey, that's something, what you've done, what you've done there. I just think it was, it's really interesting. By someone else, like a producer?

I mean, you know, like it was like family or friends. Be like, yeah, that's great. You should do that. Yeah. That's so interesting. And look, it's like, is it the worst thing in the world to be known for like Teenage Dirtbag or like A Thousand Miles? Like those are good songs. They're good songs and, you know, people love those songs

and they can still tour and work and do things and, you know, they're part of the pop culture zeitgeist. They become these like touchstones of pop culture, you know, and I think that's really cool. Anyway, so the Vanessa Carlton one, it's like 22 minutes long. You would love it. You should watch it. It's really cool and she seems really nice and happy and that's good, I guess.

So, yeah, definitely checking out. It's on Vice's YouTube channel. The Vanessa Carlton one is called The Story of a Thousand Miles by Vanessa Carlton. Interesting because that sounds like Song Exploder, which is like a podcast and also I think now a show as well where they kind of – it's basically extrapolating on that, like the behind the scenes of a particular artist's famous song

and how that came to be. Yeah, right. I will love that. I'm going to, that'll be my next thing. Well, it will be in the link to the description of this show, which Collings, welcome back, Collings. Thank you for the edit. Welcome, Collings.

Hello. Even though he was also working in the Great Mates Facebook group as well. I know. I tried so hard to get him to take a full-on holiday. He wouldn't listen. He loved everyone in that group so much. He was like, no. And he was so happy when it was allowed to be back again that I felt like

cool. He's awesome. You're amazing. But I hope he did have some actual rest time. That's right. Exactly. Cool. But look, here's something that people shouldn't rest on. You know what I mean? On their laurels? That's true. But if there's one thing you shouldn't do today, you should do today is write down that idea,

which I'm going to steal from you. And the second thing is review the show. Just like Richard Johnson TX, presumably from Texas, is saying. He gave us five stars. You can just do this in app. I don't know if you know this, Claire. Look at me. I've still got it.

Take a month off. I'm fucking flying, mate. It's also because it's the middle of the day, which is the best time to record. I'm going to try and do more of that from now on. None of this late night recording. It's breaking my brain. And me as well.

Nothing happens good after nine. Nothing's ever happened good after nine o'clock. Well, my brain just may not ever be on line. I think it's midnight when you're young, but when you're our age, it's nine o'clock. Yeah, I know. People ask me. This is the thing about going to sleep live music.

It's very parent exclusionary because everything starts at 7 but the acts don't come on to like 10. That's total bullshit. I want a gig that starts at 3 p.m. in the afternoon on a Sunday and is finished by 5. I'm happy with that. You should do that. You should start that.

That's your idea. You can do it. So this, as mentioned from Richard Johnson, said, listen to Suggestible because James doesn't. Suggestible is a fantastic podcast hosted by the lovely Claire Tonti and her much less successful co-host, Mr. Something Something. Each week, Claire attempts to brighten the listeners' lives by offering a delicious recipe, wonderful book, book to read,

or a beautiful piece of poetry. Meanwhile, Mr. Something or other can barely phone in a measly 40% to listen to his own wife's poetry. Please listen to Suggestible because James clearly does it five stars. That's not true. I do listen to this show also. You do. And also, may I say, you do bring in poetry just like secondhand

that I've already talked about. That's what he's saying, Claire. He's saying, I didn't listen. I didn't hear it. You didn't listen. You did not listen. All right. Well, you can also email the show, James.

You've been emailing us on our break. Oh, my goodness. A couple of people were so happy. But you can do this at suggestiblepod.gmail.com with your recommendations or just like feelings about the show. We would love to hear from you. This is a hello from Hertfordshire, England. I don't know if you remember this.

Tim Ball. Hi, Claire. Hope you, James, and everyone have had a wonderful, well-earned break and holiday. I'm writing in because in the last episode on the 27th of July, Mario Strikers and James is a genie. Boom. At 7 minutes 12, you guys said, Claire, the stage are an English indie

folk trio of sisters Emily, Jessica and Camilla Stavely-Taylor from Washford, Hertfordshire. I wonder if anyone from Hertfordshire is still listening to this. Yeah, says James. If you are, hello. James says, right in. Well, hello from a listener from Hertfordshire. What, what, what?

I live very near Waterford. Waterford? And it was a delightful surprise to hear you say all that. We didn't know the staves, but we looked into them immediately. I'm glad. Thank you. I wrote you into the Weekly Planet last year, and the boys kindly read out some of my email, and it included this.

Also, I'm a fan of James' less successful, sorry, Claire, podcast. And if you see this, please pass on to Claire that she's awesome too. You never passed it on. I didn't? No. I'm very insulted. No, I would podcast. And if you see this, please pass on to Claire that she's awesome too. You never passed it on. I didn't? No. I'm very insolent. No, I would have. You didn't remember.

Yeah, that's actually, that's very likely. That sounds like something I would do. Anyway, so I hope they did pass that on. I've given them their compliments there. So just to say here that, Claire, you're also indeed awesome. As someone who started out with the Weekly Planet many years ago, I'm one of, I imagine, many people who gave suggestible a try through James. And because of that, ended up listening to something wonderful

I wouldn't have otherwise got into and is all the better for it. Your insights and worldview have certainly broadened my horizons and it's particularly interesting hearing about more things in the world from a woman's perspective. Fantastic. My favourite thing about the podcast is when it goes off track into discussions on life and the world and you're so wonderfully articulate and thoughtful and careful Wow, you must like a lot of this podcast

And sometimes very moving and sometimes very funny I really appreciate both of you And all of you, a big sandwich Thank you, Tim 22 from Well Hartfordshire, England Wonderful, thank you so much Tim Thank you so much, thank you for writing in And you too can do the same at suggestiblepod at gmail.com.

That's right. That's right. That's right. Also, send us a voice memo. We haven't had one of those in a while. You can just record it on your voice memo app on your phone. And we love to hear from people from anywhere. If you're walking the dog, if you're sitting in your car,

if you're in a space machine, if you're one time someone writing from a submarine. I don't know. Maybe we've got some people sitting in orbit somewhere in a little spacecraft. We had someone riding from a submarine, James. That's true. But were they on the submarine? At the time.

I feel like yes because they listened. And then didn't someone else say they were like part of the secret service or something and they had to download all our episodes and then listen to it? I meant to fucking read that out when we did the Bond episode and I didn't. Ah, because it's so bloody cool. I know. Anyway, thank you to all our incredible listeners. You're all bloody amazing and I'm so grateful that you have come back too.

Hello. Thank you. I think, just quietly, we have the best listeners of everyone. I'm going to say I don't. I can't confirm that. But they're also kind of nice and articulate and interesting and have lots of cool things to say. Well, do you like it whenever now and then someone's like,

well, actually, Claire, well, actually, Claire, actually. I actually do like some feedback. I think constructive feedback is welcome. Oh, yeah, that's not what I'm talking about. All right. You know what I'm talking about. All right, thank you, everybody. Thank you.

Until next time, thank you as always to our colleagues for editing this week's episode. We've been stressed for podcast. Bye. Introducing Uber Teen Accounts, an Uber account for your teen with always-on enhanced safety features. Your teen can request a ride when you can't take them. You'll get real-time notifications along the way. Your teen feels the sense of independence.

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