Suggestible - The Ghost Train Fire

Episode Date: April 1, 2021

Suggestible things to watch, read and listen to. Hosted by James Clement @mrsundaymovies and Claire Tonti @clairetonti.Check out Claire’s brand new weekly newsletter – tontsnewsletterThis week’s Suggestibles:Operation Varsity Blues: The College Admissions ScandalExposed: The Ghost Train FireClaire’s Newsletter ArchiveSend your recommendations to [e-mail], we’d love to hear them.You can also follow the show on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook @suggestiblepod and join our ‘Planet Broadcasting Great Mates OFFICIAL’ Facebook Group. So many things. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Introducing Uber Teen Accounts, an Uber account for your teen with enhanced safety features. Your teen can request a ride with top-rated drivers, and you can track every trip on the live map in the Uber app. Uber Teen Accounts. Invite your teen to join your Uber account today. Available in select locations. See app for details. Hi, Energy James. Hi, Energy. Hi, Energy. That's how I like my podcast. I like someone yelling,

Hi, Energy. That's the way to start. Or opening a fresh can of kombucha. High energy. That's how I like my podcast. I like someone yelling high energy. That's the way to start. Or opening a fresh can of kombucha. Very good. Tastes like feet, doesn't it? Yeah, it's barely drinkable. Yeah, you just are drinking. Okay, hello.

Before we get started with my rant about James drinking kombucha that tastes like feet. I'm sorry, does this cut into your day, does it? Me drinking your kombucha? Well, I'm just letting the listeners know that before we start to ramble, I do them the courtesy of introducing us. Oh, that's true. In case this is your very first episode. So hello, I'm Claire. James is here also. He's continuing to drink kombucha into the microphone. Do you think I'm not going to drink this can of kombucha that I've opened? No, no. No, no. Go for it. The listeners have plenty of time in their day. They're not busy.

This isn't cutting into their day either. This is nobody's business but mine. You're the only one who brought it up. I have headphones on. I can hear you swallowing from here. You can't. The loudest swallower in the land. I'm putting my head away.

Anyway, we're married. We recommend you things to watch, read and listen to. We're Suggestible Pod and we're glad you're here. And James has got a fiddle cube, a fidget box. What are you saying? A fiddler, a fiddle-o, a box of fiddles. That could probably be cut into something very unpleasant. No, this is a fidget cube.

Ah, yeah. This is an audio medium so explain to the listeners what you have in your hands there. Okay, so basically it's one of the original fidget cubes. I bought one a while back and then I lost it, but I bought another one for me and our son. His is an Iron Man one. Mine's modelled after the Super Nintendo controller,

hence the colour scheme on it. I nearly called you Mason. Mason. Just call me mate at this point. And it's just basically it's got like little dials and buttons and levers and wheels that you turn and click. It's very satisfying. Yeah, so it's basically if you've got fidgety hands like me

and you don't smoke or vape, which I'm thinking maybe I'll just do that instead. It's just something to kind of keep you. It's really good. I wish I'd had one when I was teaching. I used to drive the kids crazy because I'd always click my pen top and I do it without even realising. I'm always clicking away. I spin a pen.

You do. Which is also really distracting when you're trying to teach a class. But kind of magical and kids, like that's one of the things they remember about you. And every class I've ever taught, they all leave learning that and then they go out to the world. Well, it's really impressive. I try to learn it but I don't have enough patience with that kind of thing. You just need the whole of year 10. So basically you need to do no work for all of year 10 and then you'll out into the world. Well, it's really impressive. I tried to learn it but I don't have enough patience for that kind of thing. You just need the whole of year 10.

So basically you need to do no work for all of year 10 and then you'll figure it out. So don't worry about it. Good. Yes, excellent. See, those days of endless amounts of time with nothing to do are behind me. Oh, my goodness. Remember those days?

I really don't. You know what I was reminiscing about just before we get into recommendations? This is going to sound kind of morbid and strange, but I am very nostalgic for a time in my life where like a cup of tea, it was just a cup of tea, and living at your parents' house, you didn't really understand all about bills and like where things went and how much money things cost. I still don't understand. You didn't really know that like recycling wasn't real and that,

you know, and then everything. Because some people are going to be like, what are you, anti-recycling? Well, no, because recycling doesn't really happen. It's like a big lie. They just dump it into the ocean or ship it in our country, ship it off to other countries to deal with our waste. So, you know, just a lovely, cheerful thought there. But I just, I was really reminiscing and nostalgic for that time where I used to watch Captain Planet cartoons and, you know, just a lovely cheerful thought there. But I just, I was really reminiscing and nostalgic for that time

where I used to watch Captain Planet cartoons and, you know, believed if I just put my rubbish in the bin it would just be all right. Yeah, that's kind of bullshit as well because they put all that on kids. There's a lot of guilt to put on a kid to be like, you're littering too much. It's like fucking you're littering too much. You're inventing that stupid symbol with the arrows that go around in a triangle that means nothing.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Okay, so if you look, see, because I was really into this. Oh, the triangle. Yeah, no, I do know that. And if you look, it's on a lot of plastic stuff and it's supposed to represent recyclability, I guess, but it actually doesn't mean anything. Represents lies. Yeah, it does, just like adulthood.

I was reading a thing about, pretty much, I was reading a thing about how like kids who grew up in like the 90s and like 2000s, which is us, I guess. Oh, not so much the 2000s, but you know what I mean? Yeah, a little bit of pushing it there, mate. A little bit of pushing it there, but like we were sold this like lie of like, you know, of the way the world works and how you get a job and you go to college or university or whatever, you know what I mean? You learn a trade and then you go out in the world and your wage increases and then you

can buy a house, whatever. But a lot of those things are just not a reality for a lot of people. So what a fucking bunch of bullshit is what I'm saying. And look, I'm very aware of how privileged we are in the place that we live and as in the country and the city and all the things. I mean Australia is one of the wealthiest countries in the world. We're very super, super lucky. Yeah, but still the wealth distribution isn't great and it's getting.

Yeah. I know. Okay, so on that cheerful note, I guess we should. Oh, my God, I've got like the perfect tie-in. Here we go. Oh, do you? Here we go. So, yeah, there's a, this isn't the actual name of it,

but there's a documentary on Netflix on the college admission scandal. Are you familiar with this? Oh, no. Figured by Chris Smith. So it's part recreation of events because it's got actors playing roles, like Matthew Modine. People might know him from acting. And it's a deep dive into the fraudulent methods used by Rick Singer

to get the children of rich and famous families into the top US universities. Oh, I remember this. I remember this. So essentially what this guy would do, this sociopath of a human being, would kind of go to rich families and be like, hey, you want your son or daughter to get into a college, get them to take this test but I'll actually get somebody else to take the test, for example, and they'll get a higher score.

Or like more famously, he'd get them in through faking sports, sporting abilities. So like he'd take a photo of them like swimming and put it into like a water polo or whatever or rowing or any of these kinds of things. What I'm loving here is how much you don't understand about the sports. Well, it's a, no, but the sports of like.

You're like, it just seems I'm like peddling for language around, you know, can't paste it into a photo of people moving with the ball and there's things there and they might have teams, you know. I couldn't think of the word for water polo because you don't really do it here. It seems like a rich person's sport. I don't know. No, you don't do it. It's just that you don't do any sport other than lifting heavy things at the gym.

Mate, I could outrun 100 out of 400 people. All right, I know. Let's not tell the story again of how you beat that kid in a local running race. Oh, my God. Okay, so the year was Easter, 1997. I'm sure you've told this story a thousand times. I probably have. I'm not going to tell it again.

If I haven't, let me know. My greatest physical triumph. But essentially, so he was doing all this, right? And so they'd go into these kids, mostly seemingly unaware of rich parents. They'd pay like hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars to this guy as his guaranteed placement. He found this basically this side door to get in.

There's also the regular way where you just have to do really well, which is not a great way to get in because the applications are, you know, there's not a lot of people that can get in. Or there's you go directly to the university and you donate like tens of millions of dollars and then they might let you in. So this was like more of a guaranteed way because he knew people in every department would be like, okay, I'm going to send this person your way, this kid, and you'll get X amount of dollars for it or whatever.

So it kind of was this really complicated web of people that he used to make this happen. And then a slight spoiler, I guess, people would know this, but it all got found out. It all came undone because he was under investigation. And what he did immediately was just flip on everybody, just flip on every single person that he was involved in, all the families, all the kids, all the people in the universities and colleges

and basically became an informant for this thing that he started and then he's not in jail. He's still not in jail even though he did this. Like he did this whole thing and it's heartbreaking because there's one guy in particular who is this beloved rowing coach and, you know, the documentary tells a certain side of the story, obviously, and he just kind of went along with it. He didn't really know what was kind of going on,

and then he just got done and he got fired and he had to – and he's got a criminal record now for this thing that he was, like, sort of involved in. Again, this is all, like, the way the documentary frames it. But the highest profile case from this, and I don't know if you know of this, is an influencer, a social media superstar of sorts called Olivia Jade, who's the daughter of Laurie Loughlin, who you might know as Aunt Becky in Full House.

Yes, this is why I remember this story. Yep, it's all coming back. It's all coming back to me now. So there were a few celebrities involved and it was like Felicity Huffman was another one and they spent like some minimal amount of time in jail and seemingly they orchestrated these things without their kids knowing, right? So I kind of feel if this is true, I feel bad for Olivia Jade because she got into this university and then she'd like before it all came out,

she was like, oh, I don't know whether I even like school or like university or whatever and all these kinds of things. And people were like, you could give this spot to like somebody who. Who's worked their whole life to try and get there. Yeah, and people were saying this like before, you know, before this whole thing came out, you know, because education it's an absolute privilege. Of course it is, you know, and especially when you get into a school

like this, even though the education is pretty much exactly the same as you can get anywhere or like this, even though the education is pretty much exactly the same as you can get anywhere or even online, you know, it counts for something to have a name to be like Princeton, Harvard, whatever. And they often say, I remember talking to someone about, like who sent their kids to a very exclusive private school and they said, look, part of it is about the quality of the resources and education, but a lot of it is to do with who they will meet and those kind of connections and all that stuff. I don't know how I feel about that.

That's essentially what it comes down to because all of the classes for all of these universities, all of the resources, they're available online. Anybody can get them. It just doesn't mean anything. You know, you could do the course, you could do the work, but if you didn't go, it doesn't, you know, you could have the knowledge, but it doesn't mean anything, you know what I mean?

Look, I agree to an extent, but I also think there is something about the way that someone would deliver a lecture, but also the kind of expertise and the kind of knowledge and the rigour of particular schools and the way that they will run kids through an academic program. I think there's something about, and some kids are just self-motivated and some people are, but in general there is something really highly valuable.

And I think at the moment, in Australia anyway, there's a real undercutting of our university system and a real devaluing of academia. And I think that's a really, really dangerous space to live in because actually there's something really, really valuable about education at that highest level. If you have really great skilled teachers that you just don't get from an online program, I know what you're trying to say, but I disagree. I agree with you on all of that. And I think education is obviously very important, but

they're traps often in these schools, you know, and it even happens here to a lesser extent though. Our debt is not as crippling as it is, say, in the US where it can be like hundreds of thousands of dollars and you're just in debt for the rest of your life even if you don't finish it and then you can't get a job. It's a whole thing. I'm sure we've talked about it before.

So I feel like that education should be available to everybody but not at the cost that it currently is because you're just putting people in debt. That's all you're doing. It's fucked. The whole thing is just completely broken from the inside out and I think there is this emphasis on academia when maybe there doesn't need to be when these skills can be acquired in the workforce

and you shouldn't have to go to school for 13 years and then do another three or four years, probably more, paying tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get an entry-level position in some bullshit company. It doesn't make any sense. I think it really just depends on the area that you're going into. Yes. I completely agree. And that kind of skill set that you'll – I agree that if it's a degree that isn't teaching you academic rigour and research and something that's valuable, I guess, in lots of ways. But I think there is something to be said about knowledge being really vital

and important and not necessarily having to always lead you to a job, but that we really do need people to be constantly researching, which is what universities do, and challenging thought and experimenting. And I think young people really thrive in that kind of environment. They can if they're set up in the right way. Yes, but I don't think it is that. I think a lot of it is just trapping people.

Yeah, but you didn't go to a university to study subjects that were highbrow. I know this sounds kind of snobbish. Oh, my goodness. But you didn't. No, you didn't. No, I know I didn't. You didn't go into that kind of environment in a school like that

where they're really pushing your boundaries in terms of what you understand about philosophy and history and language and mathematics and science. I don't think that's what they do. Mathematics and science. I don't think they're any better than hundreds of other universities and colleges around the world. They've just got a higher price tag. Oh, yeah.

Look, I agree with that. I'm sorry. I think we're kind of probably coming at the same issue from different angles. What I'm saying is that I really highly value university education. I'm not, I'm not, I don't disagree with that at all. And I'm not saying that, and I agree with you. I think that the value of an education is often more in the teacher that you have than necessarily the resources of a particular institution.

Because you can be exposed to lacrosse or water polo and all those different sports and have that kind of breadth of facilities available to you. But if you don't have a good teacher at the end of the day who's going to expand your mind and give you the kind of literature or, you know, academic thought or scientific theory and really push you and challenge you and care about the work that you do, none of those resources really matter that much, you know, in a lot of ways. I think they do.

I think a lot of people take it on themselves and you see it in people who work online and they do online courses. And in my field, for example, you can learn to edit the sound mix. You can learn Photoshop. You can learn to be, say, for example, a filmmaker purely online. And there are a whole lot of other things that you can also do just online and you don't need any of that for a lot of people. Yeah, look, I agree.

Look, yeah, I agree with you but I also think that we shouldn't be just devaluing higher education. I'm not devaluing it. What I'm saying is I think that it's a lot of it is unnecessary and flawed and just riddled with debt and privilege. That is what I'm saying.aluing it. What I'm saying is I think that it's a lot of it is unnecessary and flawed and just riddled with debt and privilege. That is what I'm saying. All right.

Okay. Anyway, should we move on? I just wanted to say. Everyone's going to be listening to this. Who are these two people just arguing? The other thing is though. That's pretty standard actually. This guy creating this side door for people to get into,

I don't think that's any different than giving a university $10, $20 million. It's the same thing, really, but one is illegal and one is not. Well, it's deliberately misleading, though. I think they're both deliberately misleading. I think it gives people the false sense of, the false idea that you can get in based on your abilities alone, which is just not true. I know.

But isn't that what I was going back to before? And it's funny you're talking about this because I've got a documentary to talk about as well. I don't like documentaries. All right. I'm a working class man. Yeah, all self-taught, mate. Go on the YouTubes and learn everything you need to know.

A lot of mine is, yeah. But, look, to be fair, when I did my business degree, I wasn't there to learn and I didn't take advantage of any of that and I hated it the entire time. So like I didn't get anything out of it, but a lot of that is also on me. You know what I mean? Like I'm not saying that's not on everybody else. But when I did my teaching degree, I was very engaged with that. I, you know, I got to know, you know, the university lecturers and teachers and other

teachers and whatever. And that was a very kind of fulfilling experience because that was something that, you know, I got to know, you know, university lecturers and teachers and other teachers and whatever and that was a very kind of fulfilling experience because that was something that, you know, I was engaged with but I don't know what I was saying. Can I keep talking now? Can I talk now? What were you saying? All right.

So I guess what I was talking about and what's interesting is I have – can I talk about my documentary now? Yeah. All right. Okay. No. Now that you've finished another rant about how nothing matters and everything is...

That's not what I was saying at all. I know, I know. I'm teasing. Introducing Uber Teen Accounts, an Uber account for your teen with always-on enhanced safety features. Your teen can request a ride when you can't take them. You'll get real-time notifications along the way. Your teen feels the sense of independence.

You can follow their entire route on a live tracking map. Your teen will get assigned a top-rated driver. You'll get peace of mind. Uber Teen Accounts. Invite your teen to join your Uber account today. Available in select locations. See app for details. Okay, so I've got a documentary called Exposed,

The Ghost Train Fire that I've been watching on ABC. Ghost Train? Yeah, from Luna Park. And I had no idea about this story. I thought you were watching. I was wondering why it was like a lot of people died at Luna Park. I'm like crazy, all right. Yeah, no, it's really fascinating and kind of terrifying.

So one of the reasons that it is terrifying is because it, again, and I feel like at this time, we're just living through this whole, what's the word for it? Like nightmare. No, it's just a time. It's a time where, and I guess this has happened throughout human history, but I feel like we're living through this time where just all the power structures and all the way we've set up as societies are just coming under this heavy scrutiny and falling apart under that scrutiny. And there just seems to be so much power and, like, mishandling and corruption.

Yes. And the police are corrupt. Yes. And it's just awful. And that's why I was feeling nostalgic for a time when I just assumed that everything was, you know, not wonderful but okay. And so all of this. But even there wasn't.

It was a trick, Claire. All right. Okay, well, anyway. So Exposed is really great. It had the first season of this. It's run by a multi-award winning investigative journalist called Caro Meldrum-Hanna and she's the co-creator of this, it's run by a multi-award winning investigative journalist called Caro Meldrum-Hanna and she's the co-creator of this series. She's won five Walkley Awards for journalism

and she particularly looked at her Walkley Award was for exposing the illegal practice of live baiting in greyhound racing, which brought the sport in Australia to its knees. Just quickly, sorry to interrupt. What is live baiting? I don't know what it is. Oh yeah, I don't really know either. I think it was. I can give it a googs while you keep talking. Yeah, so it's illegal. Live baiting.

I guess it was something to do with the way that they were treating greyhounds in training, I'm pretty sure. Using live animals for the purpose of training greyhounds. Okay, yeah, so you know how they chase that fake rabbit around you and use like real animals. Yeah, yeah. And it just exposed a chase that fake rabbit around you and it's like real animals. Yeah, yeah. And it just exposed a lot of terrible things about the way they were treating greyhounds in the industry.

So she's just this incredible investigator. The first series of Exposed looked at Kelly Lane. Do you remember that story of Kelly Lane who hid like I think it was four pregnancies as a teenager? Oh, no, I do know that, yeah. And one went missing? Yeah, one went missing and she was convicted. Anyway, so that was really.

You talked about that on this, yeah? I think we might have, yeah. I mean, that was just incredible journalism. Anyway, so this has been long anticipated. This is her second season of this show and it's about an incident that happened at Luna Park in Melbourne in St Kilda, which is like a really famous, actually I think it's a Luna Park in Melbourne in Sydney.

Okay, yeah, because there's one. Yeah, here as well. But this is the one in Sydney. People don't know it's a big smiley face on the picture. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it is. And it was sort of iconic and there's lots of rides and, you know, it's like fairy floss and the whole thing, fairground.

It's a nightmare as an adult, but yeah. Yeah, but I don't really like roller coasters anyway. So in 1979, there was a fire in the ghost train there at night time and six children and one adult. So John Godson and his two children, Damien and Craig, who were like five and six, along with four boys, Jonathan Billings, Richard Carroll, Michael Johnson and Seamus Rahilly, who I think were around like 12, 13.

Right. All lost their lives. And so this is kind of like 42 years later, Jason Holman, who was this little boy who was a bit younger than those four boys. It's just so crazy. He was the sole survivor. So there were five of these kids that took themselves off and were given permission to go to Luna Park for the very first time away from

their parents. And their parents had decided that this was something they could do together. So they got, you know, the ferry over and got the tram and everything. And they were so excited to be there. And it was like towards the end of the night. and it was the last ride that was going to be kind of running at Luna Park. Everything was shutting up and they decided to go on at the last minute. Now the two boys ahead of Jason both got into carriages and while that was happening, people who had been going around the ghost train, which is, you know, one of those things

where it's a whole long winding tunnel through the dark and it's like ooh and, you know. And things, cobwebs and skeletons. Yeah, cobwebs and skeletons dangling and that kind of thing. People have started to notice there was a fake fire in the ghost train and the fake fire started to flicker like a real fire. Right. And one woman remembers putting her hand out going,

that actually looks real now and put it and it was hot. She's like, that's strange. And her carriage just sailed past. And then as more and more people sailed through past it, the flames started to lick up the walls. And then all of a sudden people realised that the whole wall was on fire and it really was a problem. And so by that point, because it's the 1970s,

for some reason they didn't have smoke alarms and I don't know, it just seems crazy now that security cameras, nothing like that. The guests started to like notice all the people who were on the ride, started to notice what was happening, tried to escape, managed to escape and ran around to the attendant who was sending all these kids and families onto the ride and said, it's on fire, it's on fire. And he was confused and didn't know what to do and pressed the button and sent those two carriages with the four boys ahead. And Jason was on the last carriage. And just as the doors opened, because you know how you sail through on a little train carriage and the doors shut behind you? Just as the doors were about to shut behind Jason, the guy kind of came to his centres

and grabbed Jason off the carriage. But by that point, it's so strange. It was too late for those other boys that had gone through. It must have been really going at that point as well. Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was. And that's the thing. Because it's so dark and twisty and turny.

And it's probably not a very big space either because they often. Yeah, it was and that's the thing because it's so dark and twisty and turny. And it's probably not a very big space either because they often. Yeah, they show the map in the expose and it kind of winds around and there's one part which is so eerie which is open to the public. So it's like a kind of a cage and the carriages sail through that so that, you know, you kind of come out into the daylight for a minute and then get shoved back into the tunnels. Sure. And people said there was carriages coming through on fire

but with no one in them. Jesus. And so like a crowd kind of starts to gather. There's smoke like billowing. And then they interview the attendants and there's one guy who's so lovely who was like, I don't know, 19 or something, who worked the ghost train and he said he felt like a rock star working the ghost train.

Everyone thought he was really cool riding, you know, going into work with his T-shirt on because Luna Park at that time was like the place to be. Yeah. It was like the sort of nightlife for young people and families in the 70s. And so he raced in with one other guy to try and get as many people out through the fire door as he could.

He said it was just billowing with smoke. And he turned a corner and there was just like a raging inferno. And he managed to get a whole lot of people out. And she talks to people who were in there who managed to get out. But he remembers going back in and he saw, oh, it just makes me cry, he saw the father, who was John Godson and his two boys, Damien and Craig, and John Godson was kind of had his arms over the two boys

and they were crouched down in the corner because it was obviously, it would have been so dark and so sick with smoke. Yeah, because it was pretty disorientating. They were disorientating anyway. So he couldn't say he was trying to get to them but he got overwhelmed by the smoke and he had to run out. God. And so he remembers seeing them there.

And the noise of it as well. Oh, yeah. And then they said what was also really spooky was that kind of happened, the attendant ran out and then the whole place exploded. Like a giant fireball kind of came rushing out of the corridor of the ghost train and kind of ran, went up into the air. And she interviews the wife of John Godson who literally was supposed to be on the ghost train with them but just went to go and get an ice cream

and she's walking back with her ice cream and her two sons and her husband, she's just standing there watching the whole place go up in flames. It just breaks your heart. And then these four boys and they get, you know, they're just the most, the way that the families talk about them, you can see they're all really talented and really highly gifted. They were kind of these muck about kids who would go sailing together

and Jonathan talks, Jason talks about the four boys as being like his mates and super funny and really kind and you just see all these beautiful photos and the family's just talking about how gorgeous they were. And anyway, it's just heartbreaking. But then I guess what makes it more heartbreaking and what's kind of where I come to with what you were talking about, it slowly is being kind of uncovered that come to with what you were talking about, it slowly is being kind of uncovered that there was a massive cover-up. And so I won't spoil too much. There's

six episodes. So this is just the first episode that kind of lays the groundwork. But basically what they say is that literally the next day, so that night, the whole place has gone up in flames in a big fireball. The fire brigade's gone in. The police have gone in. No one speaks to John Godson's wife. She's just sitting on the steps sobbing. No one reached out to her.

No one told her what had happened. She just sat there crying and crying, she said, and the ambulances came. And the families as well only saw what happened on the news and their boys hadn't come home. So some police came to the door and said, have your sons come home? They said no. So then the fathers drove into Luna Park and they're just standing there but there's no one to talk to them or tell them what's going on.

And it just makes you think about how far we've come in those kind of things because I'm looking and it's just like now it's just sort of unfathomable that people would just walk past this woman who's just lost everything and there's no social workers, there's no psychologists, there's no team to come around her or, you know, anything. Anyway. So she's still alive? Yeah, so she's interviewed.

Yeah. It's just hard. Oh, my God, it just breaks your heart. But then what was really scary is the next day, by 3 o'clock that day, the papers had all released this story that said it was to do with the power fault. It was like a power faultage, an electrical fault, and that's what caused the fire.

Right. And then when you talk to all the firemen and your dad's firemen, you would know, like they couldn't have known. They couldn't have done a thorough investigation. Literally the entire. Not in a day. Not in a day. The entire ghost train had been completely obliterated.

Yeah. And they were still kind of dealing with the bodies and all that stuff. So what, did they tell you what it is? So you start to get hints and I don't want to give, should I spoil it? It's only the first episode as well. It's only the first episode. I've kind of read a bit more and I'm looking forward to it.

But basically what they're hinting at is that it was started by a mafioso and it's something to do with the politics of Luna Park and their land and something to do with the value of it and that the head policeman. It's like waterfront like property. Yeah, prime property. And the policeman who was head of the investigation was known to be highly corrupt. So he's the one that pushed for it to be called an electrical fault.

So it's starting to uncover some deep-seated corruption within the police force. I know me neither. I hadn't. But it's just, it's really worth the watch and it's just such excellent investigative reporting. I mean, look, it's hard to watch watch and it's just such excellent investigative reporting. I mean, look, it's hard to watch. That's the worst thing I've ever heard.

Yeah. But what I really valued about Caro Meldrum-Hanna's reporting is that she really allows you to walk in the shoes of the people that have been affected and you really get a sense of who the boys were, who they were to their families and just what the enormity of what they lost. Yeah. And the thing that broke my heart the most was this guy, Jason,

who seems really lovely, he still can't believe 42 years later that that happened to his mates. Yeah. Like one minute they were just, he was like the young kind of follower, honourer of these like really cool older kids who were awesome. Yeah. And the next minute they just were gone. And he said when he got home, on the night it happened,

the police got him home and all he wanted to do was see his mum. And he opens the door and he's standing there with two policemen and her immediate reaction was, what have you done, in this really like angry parental like this is the first time I've ever let you out on your own, what have you done, in this really like angry parental like this is the first time I've ever let you out on your own, what have you done? And then they tell her and she just like engulfs him in this giant hug and won't let him go. And he said, that's just what mums do.

And he said then they put him to bed because it's that kind of era and he remembers like the parents of the other boys had come back to the house and he comes down the stairs and he's, you know that when you're a kid you're like observing adults? Yeah. And when you're not supposed to? And the father of one of the boys who seems like this quite like jovial, lovely kind of guy, he said the phrase was, I just watched him melt. And that is actually the most traumatic memory I have of the whole thing.

Not even the fire and everything. He said watching this man just go to, yeah, just melt. And the wails. It's just like so harrowing and then so anger-inducing. That's the worst thing I've ever heard. Isn't it? I'm so sorry, everybody. This is not a very cheerful episode.

Normally I bring the grim stuff, Claire. What is going on? I know, I know. I've got a fun thing to recommend after this. I've got one too. That reminds me because there was not a similar accident. There was an accident at Dreamworld a few years ago, not that long ago, where there's like a whitewater rafting ride.

Do you remember this? Yeah, I do. Basically you sit in aafting ride. Do you remember this? Yeah. Basically you sit in a big kind of circle and you go down a fake rapid and the thing that fucking flipped right near the start and just like decapitated like a bunch of people. Oh, my gosh. Dream World on the Gold Coast, mate. Like that's a ride that I've been on like multiple times.

And look, no, obviously it was nowhere near when I had gone or whatever. But it's all about you. But you just kind of take for granted that these things are safe. You know what I mean? And so I'm pretty wary about like the stuff that I would do or go on now. Like I wouldn't bungee jump. I wouldn't skydive. I wouldn't certain rides.

I just wouldn't go on now. And it's because it's just like I don't want to accidentally die. Yeah. Yeah, I think. Yeah. I mean, look, I's just like I don't want to accidentally die. Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, I mean, look, I don't think anyone's like hoping to accidentally die. No, of course not, but you just kind of. You're more aware, the older that you get. Yeah.

And maybe the more you have to lose and maybe having kids too plays a part of that as well. It all plays a factor, yeah. But, I mean, I've always been, this is not surprising at all, since very little, a very cautious person and I hate – like I'm not cautious in life, things like trying – Take a chance. Take a chance, like risk.

You can get on stage and whatever, yeah. Yeah, in front of people or trying new ideas or like looking – I'm not scared of looking the fool or whatever. I do this quite regularly. Lucky to. Trying new things or making mistakes or whatever in life. Yeah. But physical stuff like that?

Yeah. Oh, mate, I'm so cautious. You got to an age, I think pretty recently, where you're like, I'm just not going to do any of that stuff. I don't have to and I won't. No. Yeah. Because for years I would just get this sick feeling of dread.

People would take me to rides or roller coasters or like make me, like even a honeymoon when you're like, you know, you did a bungee jump thing and nah. Terrifying. Terrifying. That was terrifying. The day that I realised that sick feeling because people would be like, you'll do it and then you'll feel the top of the world. No, I just cried the whole time and I cried afterwards.

We did a giant drop, which to your credit was absolutely terrifying. This is in New Zealand. Where basically they take, they just kind of swing you out over like a canyon and you just drop like 130 metres or whatever it is and like swing out over a gorge. And you cried like leading up. You cried on. You cried as we were doing it.

You cried as we're slowly being dragged back up, which is the worst part. That was so terrifying. And then you cried as you got off. It was like you cried as we're slowly being dragged back up, which is the worst part. That was so terrifying. And then you cried as you got off. It was like you cried the entire time. And I don't blame you because, really, it's a completely idiotic thing to do. I just. It's like. Because it is this, though, because, like, that and bungee jumping,

it's just falling to your death. Yeah. That's all it is. But you don't die. But there is that feeling of like I'm just falling to my death here. Yeah, I know. And it's so strange to me though because I've never experienced it,

but people love it, like that adrenaline junkie thing. Also you become accustomed to. No. No, no, certain people do. I don't know. Did you watch that? Some people love it. Some people find, like obviously not just some people, a lot of people

because fairgrounds and roller coasters and rides, like that's universal all over the world. People do it all the time. It's just not, I've just never experienced that high. Luna Park is so rattly as well. That's what I remember most about it. Like every ride just rattles as you're going along on it. Oh, the roller coasters.

And that roller coaster one that goes all the way around the outside, that thing's like 120 years old or something like that. No way. I'm not into that. I don't know if they do it now, but there's a person who would stand on the back and when you get to the very top, they'd like scoot. Like they'd scoot like it's like a skateboard to like push it along because this thing's so old.

Even now I'm just getting that horrible sinking feeling. You know what? It's only now as an adult, probably in the last year, that I've been able to articulate the fact that I am terrified of heights, like a phobia terrified of heights. And no one had said that to me before. And when I finally understood that about myself, it was so freeing because I just thought there was something wrong with me that I would, like I literally freeze on the top of things and get trapped inside like playgrounds. Still, I think all that's fine though.

I think that's all very reasonable, you know what I mean, to be terrified of heights. Yeah, you should be. Yeah, it's terrifying. Because you'll fall to your death. Yeah, exactly. Would you step out on like a glass like walkway, something like that?

I could do it, yeah, but I don't enjoy it. I'm not there. But that's not as bad as like walking to the edge of a cliff or something and looking around. No, but I get this horrible feeling. Like if I'm at a really high building with a really cool view, I love a view, don't get me wrong, I love a view, but at a certain point, depending on what the railing is like,

I just get, I can't get too close. You get that feeling? Yeah, horrible feeling. Like this is a fear that I've carried a lot actually after having kids that I'll just accidentally drop them over the edge of something. Yeah, I have exactly the same thing. I feel like when I walk past like a set of stairs or like I'm on a balcony, even though like I'm not going, you're not going to, but you could.

You know, it happens. It has happened to people. Oh, my God. And it's it happens. It has happened to people. Oh, my God. And it's just this horrible, horrible fear of mine. Yeah. It must be biological. There must be something going on there with like your ability to sort of think about the dangers of things or something.

I don't know. Anyway. We might have to leave our other recommendations for next week though. Yeah, I know. We've just basically traumatised people for 37 minutes. Do we have an ad this week? No, we don't next week. Good.

Sellout next week. Should we do it? We've got some listener reviews and questions. You are? Yeah, go for it. Hey, man, if people want to review the show, they can. Do it. It really helps.

And if you want to tell somebody else about the show, that really helps because that, I feel, is the number one get out there podcast. Yes, please. If you have a mate or a wife or a partner or a dog that would like this show that doesn't like the weekly podcast and don't understand your love for it, give us a bell. Yeah, give us a bell. Put us on.

We're better than that piece of shit show. And, yeah, some people, I've had people in my life who are like, what happens if I just download it? Like I won't listen. I just don't. I don't want none of that shit. You can just say you're not going to listen to it. I don't care.

It's not for you. So if people that you think might enjoy it, that'd be great. There's nothing worse than like someone you know who listens to it but kind of clearly doesn't really get it. Yeah, which is, of course, why would you? Especially also if you know us, why would you then listen to us? It doesn't make any sense. You wouldn't.

It makes no sense. No, but people are so nice and supportive and I really appreciate them, unlike you. But everybody I know, like all of my friends, they don't listen. All my friends call me Mr. Sunday Night Movies because they don't know. They have no idea what it is I do. But, yeah. But anyway, whatever.

Anyway, this is a review. I haven't corrected them. I probably should. A podcast for couples. I love this podcast. I'm a fan of both James and Greg from their other podcasts, but this one is my favorite. I listen to this with my partner every week.

We love watching the movies they recommend because they span multiple genres so we can both find something we enjoy. But my favourite suggestion so far was a poem called Home by Warson Shire. Oh, that was my recommendation. I'm not much of a poetry person, but when Claire read it to me on the pod, it instantly stuck with me. Thank you guys for all the good you do. While you're reading this, I would like to suggest an album called

Spark by Maxwell Young. It's one of my favourite albums of all time. It's smooth and melodic, but with hip-hop and soul elements, some of the tracks get a little experimental, but don't let that stop you from giving it a listen from Rex Quimpo. I feel like I've read that before. Have I read that before? I've definitely heard that before, but I don't mind because I like a good review

about myself. So it's fine. Regardless, thank you, Rex. Thank you, Rex. Maybe I've just read it in the list of reviews. Maybe you have. Well, unlike you, I'm organized. I love being organized.

So we have got an email today and it's a voice memo from Alan Kerr we love getting these we love them so if you'd like to send us a voice memo and we'll put you on the show and here's Alan hello Claire and James

how's it going this is Alan from Glasgow in Scotland and thought I'd send you a wee voice message because Claire enjoys hearing different voices

from different parts of the world so I thought I'd chip in with mine and consider this a kind of a cultural exchange from me to you um so here's some things that you might find interesting about scotland claire did you know that we recently became the first country in the world to tackle period poverty by offering free tampons and sanitary pads to any and all who need them and Isn't that pretty cool? I didn't know that. That's amazing.

And James, did you know that the new Batman film was filmed here? Partly in the Glasgow necropolis, which is an old cemetery from the 1800s. And finally, here's a wee joke that apparently you'll only understand if you're from Glasgow. So let's see how you guys do. So a guy walks into a bakery and says to the baker see that there is that a cake or a meringue and then the baker says no you're right it is a cake so hi thanks wonderful recommendations big fan keep it up hope you guys are safe and doing well

thanks very much I was waiting for the punchline. So was I. I thought the cake was going to say hello or something. There must be a word in Scottish. Yeah, it must be region specific. It must be. Well, Alan. I hope it is because otherwise we're stupid.

Wasn't that nice to hear Alan's voice? It's nice to hear different voices. His dulcet tones. Yeah. I just got it just now. I just figured it out. No, he didn't. He didn't, Alan.

He didn't. But it's going to eat at him all day now. All right. Well, thank you so much, Alan. And if you would like to send your voice memo or just an email, we'd love to get those as well. Send them to just suggestiblepod at gmail.com. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.

Suggestiblepod at gmail.com. And you can also get a letter from me every week if you like. Just by following the link in the bio, it's called Taunts. It comes out every Friday. It's just a little reflection on a bit of life for me. Brittany Dawson recently wrote in about the newsletter and I just thought I'd read this out to you, James. Oh, let's hear it.

Isn't that cool? Hi, Claire and James. Let me start by saying I love your podcast, especially this one. I love your podcast. I love your podcast. My husband introduced me to the Weekly Planet a few years ago and I'm so happy I explored the other shows. Now, to get a little sad, my father-in-law passed away

on January 30th of this year. We were very close with him and it's been rough. We're coming up on two months now and every time I start to feel okay, I'll hear a song, he was a lifelong musician, or have a memory and it just breaks me down and I know it's so much harder on my husband. Every morning I try to wake up a little early before work to drink my tea and just enjoy the morning. The last few Fridays, Claire's newsletter has been quite literally helping me get through the day. This morning though, as I sat with my tea and listened to the birds outside, I burst

into tears and reread the newsletter three times. Though you made me cry, it was exactly what I needed this morning. And, well, sometimes you just need a good cry anyway. I agree, Brittany. So thank you for making me laugh, read, watch, listen to new things. And now thank you for making me cry. Love you guys. Brittany from New Jersey.

It's my dream to make someone cry. You've done it. You make me cry every day. Oh, drop the paradise. Oh, okay. Anyway, thank you, Brittany. I'm so sorry about your father. People are loving that newsletting, Claire,

and I know you've got a lot of feedback. Speaking of people we know, people we know have written to you about that. Yeah. I am. Because you're building a website as well for another project that you are currently working on. Correct, I am. I hope you put all your posts up there as blog posts at some point.

Maybe I will. In the meantime, people should sign up. Thanks. There's already 40,000 people signed up and we need more. And I just really value, if you'd like to hear a little letter from me or read a little letter from me every week, I would love to send one to you. And you can also read the past issues, that one about grief that Brittany's talking about was from last week,

and you can find them all at the link, so in the bio. Oh, there you go. So they are available. Yes, they are all available. Cool. All right. Next week, the same show but recommending different things or maybe I'll read the same review again, I think.

I may have done that. I don't know, Claire. Who knows? I'm very tired. We do not sleep a lot. No, we don't. But I think that's a result of being too fucking awesome. That's probably why.

Look, it's always good to have high hopes, isn't it? It certainly is. All right, let's go and do a different thing. Okay, bye. I'm going to go watch some Mortal Kombat shit. All right, I'm going to watch the second episode of Exposed. Oh, my God. We're going to have a great night.

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