Suggestible - We Love Big Brands

Episode Date: June 15, 2023

Suggestible things to watch, read and listen to. Hosted by James Clement @mrsundaymovies and Claire Tonti @clairetonti.All Dates and Tickets for Claire Tonti’s UK & Ireland Tour this July 2023 available via https://www.clairetonti.com/eventsThis week’s Suggestibles:03:10 Flamin' Hot13:05 Platonic24:18 Matrescence by Lucy Jones36:00 Pose, Summerland, Handsome Devil, Black Sails, The Inverts, Disobedience, A Matter of Oaths and The Gathering PodcastSend your recommendations to [e-mail], we’d love to hear them.You can also follow the show on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook @suggestiblepod and join our ‘Planet Broadcasting Great Mates OFFICIAL’ Facebook Group. So many things. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We can wait for clean water solutions, or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge indigenous cultures, or we can learn from indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth, or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future. jump in. I couldn't even come in with a witty retort because you were so on the ball today. I know, exactly. And I won't be doing any witty retorts today at all. No, that's impossible because your whole personality is based on witty retorts. That's true. I don't have a real personality.

No, we talked about this. We should be talking about this on the show about what would happen if you didn't like film and you just have nothing to talk about with anyone. Like a grey ghost wandering from shop to shop. You are wearing a grey hoodie today. What's wrong with my grey hoodie? You have grey hair as well. You're just very grey today, as are the skies. That's true. It's just a grey old day. Everyone in Melbourne is getting

miserable and I think it's just because it's like impending winter and the flu season is upon us. That's true. Well, not you though, Claire, because you're about to hit the beautiful English summer. I am. For your tour. I know. Which, not you though, Claire, because you're about to hit the beautiful English summer. I am. For your tour. I know, which like everyone looks very sweaty over there. I feel like when I think of England, I don't think of sweatiness. They can't handle it over there.

I think there's something happening with the climate. I don't know, but it may be changing. I don't know. Maybe there's just less shade. Anyway, what are your dates? What are my dates? Yes, correct. Exacto, Monjo.

So I will be performing in London at the Space UK on the Isle of Dogs, 2pm on the 2nd of July. I am heading to Exeter to do a 10am show on the 4th of July for mothers and babies. Then I'm heading to Dublin to do an evening show starting at 8 o'clock on the 6th of July. I'm going to Glasgow on the 8th of July. I'm playing at Kingsborough Gardens Church Hall.

Very exciting starting at 2 o'clock. That's on a Saturday afternoon. I'm heading to Edinburgh on the 9th of July. I'm playing a venue called The Caves at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. Then I am going to Manchester. Manchester? Playing on the 11th of July. When is there going to Manchester. Manchester? On the 11th of July. When is there going to be a Manchester for women? Yeah, like a

womanchester. Like a womanchester. Well, I'm making it a bloody womanchester by heading to Manchester. Whoa, that's crazy. Anyway, that's at 8 o'clock at the Eagle Inn. I have two cool supports for that. One is a guy called Matthew Carey, who is a singer-songwriter from Manchester, and a really amazing feminist string quartet called Volva Voque

and they are also going to be playing. It's very cool. Then I'm going to Petersfield on the 13th of July and playing at the Petersfield Museum and Art Gallery at 7pm. Then I'm headed to Sydney when I get back on the 30th of July. Very good. And playing a performance of Matressens at the Great Club in Marrickville. And that's at 3 o'clock in the afternoon.

And I'm also doing another little book launch actually in Basingstoke. That is on the 14th of July in the afternoon at a coffee house called Willow's Coffee House. And that is it. That is all the things. Wow, that's really exciting. Well, I've got exciting things too going on, don't I? Everyone's got things going on. It's not even that big a deal.

All right, cool. So what are you up to? What am I up to? Existential dread. Sure. General exhaustion. General exhaustion, yeah. Now, you know, there's one thing I love, Claire.

What is it? Movies. Brands. I love brands. You love brands. And you said movies. Yes. And this is two of my favorite things. Brands. I love brands. You love brands. And you said movies. Yes. And this is two of my favorite things.

Brands and movies. Hang on. These are the last few recommendations you've been bringing. Tradition. Of the Facebook movie, of the Tetris movie, of the Air movie. It's not about Air. It's about the shoe. Blackberry as you brought last week.

Of the Blackberry movie which came out last week. This week we're talking Flamin' Hot. And you might be wondering what are you talking about? Before I tell you that, Claire, this stars Jesse Garcia, Annie Gonzalez, Tony Shalhoub, Dennis Haysbert. It's got a screenplay by Lewis Colick and Linda Yvette Chavez, and it's actually directed by Eva Longoria, who you might know as one of the Desperate Housewives.

I do. Of course I do. She was the one who was having the affair. She's like a shorter one, a littler one. Yes, Iwives. I do. Of course I do. She was the one who was having the affair. She's like a shorter one, a littler one. Yes, I know her. Of course I do. Anyways, this is about the creation of the flaming hot Cheeto. What was that?

Do you know what that is? I have no idea. It's like a, you know, twisties. In Australia, another place we have twisties. It's like a flaming hot twisty. It's like a red twisty. Oh. So it's about the creation of that.

Oh, no. No, not oh, no, Claire. Are we really scraping the bottom off? It's a racial immigration story. Is it? Yes. Okay. All right.

I'm back on board, James. The may or may not be true. A lot of this seems to be made up. Anyways, it's based on the memoir, A Boy, A Burrito, and A Cookie, from Janet to executive. Do you mean Janita? What did I say? Janet.

Yeah, from Janet. From a woman called Janet. To an executive called executive. So it's about this man who's a real person called Richard Montanez and he's the son of a Mexican immigrant and he was a janitor at Frito-Lay, which is like a chips distributor, and they're also owned by PepsiCo who you might know as Big Drinks. Yes.

PepsiCo, they have a number of brands under their umbrella and that's what I love as you're aware. Did you say Big Drinks? Big Drinks. They make big drinks, big popular drinks. Do you mean as in like the size of the bottles or you mean like? No, big brands. Oh, big brands.

Sure. I don't like like big bottle drinks. I like a drink when it's like it's purposefully packaged. I don't like a big thing and you pour it into a cup like a big two-litre bottle or whatever. No, you do really love a little drink. Yeah, I love it. But you also drink like someone's going to steal it.

I've said this multiple times on the show. You drink so fast that I don't get a chance to have a little sippy. Why don't you come and try it? I want a little sippy and a little drinky. I love it. You can't have it. You drink things so quickly that sometimes I miss you having drunk it. So like literally I'll see you with a can, you'll have bought the can,

I'll look around at a tree, I'll look back and you've crushed the can. And I don't even know where the liquid's gone. What's going on with this tree? And then you look back, oh, no, the can's gone. You're always looking at a tree. Pay attention. Stop looking at nature. I actually really love trees in nature. Stop looking at nature. I actually really love trees and nature.

Stop looking at trees. I've heard it's actually really good for you. Don't judge me. That's my hobby. That's all my personality. That's all I have left. I can't remember anything, but I like looking at trees. Get a real personality.

Pop culture. I have a favorite. Or fitness. Or both. Okay, let me tell you the most boring thing to you that you'll ever think. But I'll just tell you because I think it's wondrous. I have a favorite tree in my bush you because I think it's wondrous. I have a favorite tree in my bushwalk that I do, my light dog walk,

and it is kind of slightly pale pink. And yesterday when I was walking, I like to lean against it just a little. I just go say, hello, hello, tree, pull a cheek on it. And I looked up and had ladybugs all over it, little yellow ones with little black dots, and I was like, nature's a miracle. Would you be angry if I kicked that tree? I went up and I went, and I kicked it. Yeah, I would. It's my friend.

Well, it's a tree. It doesn't ask anything of me. It just lives there. I don't have to like email it about anything. It's just always there. I love that. And it will be there after you're dead. Exactly.

And it was there before I was born, most likely. So I just, I really love it. That's why I love trees. Oh my goodness. I'm actually getting quite emotional. I really am tearing up. I think it's because life is impermanent, James. Oh my God.

What is happening? I don't know. Where are you in your cycle? What is this? It's just like mid-cycle. There's no reason to be emotional. Yeah. I think it's just, I think it's, I've been working a lot.

I've been working a lot. You haven't been sleeping. I haven't been sleeping. And also that like life is full on and things change and it's hard and then it's really nice to have things that are consistent. So you know what? Who knows? Who does know?

Maybe a big storm will blow through and knock over my favourite That's also life. country. That's also life. That's also life. Stop telling me things or I'll keep crying. All right. Keep continuing and tell me about the big brand movie. Richard was a janitor at Frito-Lay.

Again, it's a chip factory. Yes. They did like Cheetos and various popcorns and Dorito kind of style things and whatever. Maybe even actual Doritos. I don't know. Do you know one of the things I love about you? There's many.

But one of the things is the way you say the sound chip. It's like a chip, a big chip. A big chip. A big chip. I think I talk normally. Some people hate the way that I talk. They're like, why do you talk like that? And I'm like, because I'm not from where you're from.

That's why. I don't think that many people hate it because quite a lot of people listen to you talk. That's literally your job. Oh, that's a good point, yeah. You know. Yeah, once you've got haters. Anyway, he's in the factory. Then you know you've really made it. He's a janitor. He's a good point, yeah. You know. Yeah, once you've got haters. Anyway, he's in the factory.

Then you know you've really made it. He's a janitor. He's a janitor, Claire. Okay. And he came up with the idea for the Flamin' Hot Cheeto, which is a spicy Cheeto, right? Think twisty, but it's red. It's like you look at it and you're like, is that good?

Apparently people love them. They look terrible. But anyway, his creation, inspired by the flavors of his community, revitalized Frito-Lay, which is a brand and disrupts the food industry, which is also made up of brands. So here's the thing about this guy, which it's a pretty incredible story. Even the stuff that is true is like, if you looked at that alone, you're like, this is an amazing story. This was a man who was a janitor and he worked his way up to like to a technical position within

the factory that he cleaned and then eventually became this like huge marketing guy so he wanted to be like more than a janitor and kind of he wanted to go beyond all the limits that were imposed upon him by society and whatnot and also in doing so the movie has a big emphasis on like the hispanic community where he's from and family and all these kinds of things and and education and purpose and whatever and you know financial struggles and all these kinds of things and education and purpose and whatever and, you know, financial struggles and all these kinds of things. And the way that the movie presents it is that he makes this thing because there's no snacks that represent like his community. Like he realizes that there is a market for food like this because there is a huge population

that they love this kind of stuff. You know, they want something spicy and interesting and not just like a plain chip, you know. They'd be putting in a spicy thing anyway. Who doesn't love a spice and a chip? You know what I mean? You get a Dorito and you put it in a spicy whatever. Love it.

You know I'm all about the spice. Exactly. Now again. Some would say I'm the spice in your life. I would not say that. The movie though is I would say I looked it up and it's dubious in terms of like the timeline of things. Like they always mix things up and there is like debate about who actually came up with the Flaming Hot Cheeto and maybe it wasn't this guy.

But the story of him like coming up and like inventing stuff, that part is true. And there is stuff in this movie that we've seen before. They do this kind of when he imagines what's going on in like different scenarios, like in boardrooms, like he talks in the way that he would talk and then the actors kind of mime it out. Does that make sense? And that's something we've seen like Michael Peña do very similarly in like the first two Ant-Man movies. So there's things in this that's like, no, I've seen like versions

and variations on this before. I wouldn't say it's like the best brand movie because, you know, I love brand movies, Claire. Apparently you do. It's not the best one of those, but it's like a nice feel-good story that is somewhat true and the guy's kind of, it's just an interesting kind of narrative and it's fun. It keeps moving.

Everyone's good in it. And I think Eva Longoria, who I didn't know directed, did a really good job for this, yeah. So great. It's available on Disney Plus or Hulu, depending where you are, in the world. In the world. That sounds actually really great.

I'm sorry that I made fun of it at the beginning because I actually kind of think interesting. Yeah. And as we've discussed previously, with brands, it is actually interesting to think about the genesis of something that then becomes so familiar that you just think it's always existed. You're like, yeah, of course there'd be spicy like chips and whatever.

Yeah, exactly. But someone had to think of that idea. Someone thought of it. Which then makes you think the next big million dollar idea is just around the corner. Here's one. Poisoned chips. What, for when you were sick of your partner? Yeah, you poisoned people in your life.

Oh, hang on. Are you trying to send me some kind of undercurrent message? No, no, no, no, no. I'm not telling I'd poison you, but I'm saying I think there's a market for poisoned chips. Who would you give that to? Because you know how I'm bitter and poisoned. Imagine if I put everything about me into a chip. Oh, Lord.

I don't know what's happening here. Have you lost your mind? Would it be? What flavor you could put in a chip? Sour? Other than poison. Bitter, sour, bread. Sour chips.

Okay. Apple. All right. These are all terrible ideas. I was going to say potato. I think that's already one. Marshmallow chip. I think like a carrot chip.

I think there is. Egg chip. Oh, God. Egg chips. You're making me ill in my stomach. Imagine this. An egg, but it's deep fried like a chip. And it's not like cut up into chips.

It's a whole egg and you crunch into it. And it goes as you bite into it. I wish listeners could see your face. I just had this image of like a packet of chips with your face on it doing that. Egg chips. Like crunching into an egg. Egg. I'm pretty sure that's just like a deep fried egg.

Yeah. No, you've got to cook it like a chip. It might be air fried even because it's like a chip. Okay. I'm sure that exists. Everything in your egg exists. Egg chip. Think about it, everybody.

So silly. That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. What do you got? It's almost as silly as a deep fried Mars bar. I got in a bit of trouble saying I wouldn't want to eat that. But I wouldn't want to eat it. I wouldn't want to eat that. Fuck that.

That's terrible. I wouldn't eat it. Just eat a Mars bar like a normal person. I do. But maybe I will have one in Scotland. I wouldn't. Who knows? They Fuck that. That's terrible. I wouldn't eat it. Just eat a Mars bar like a normal person. Maybe I will have one in Scotland. I wouldn't. Who knows? They rest on your heart for nine years.

Good God. So gross. Can I talk about the thing that I want to talk about now? I wish. I'm very excited. We're going to talk about this together. It is a show called Platonic. Oh, yeah.

Playtonic. It's really good. It's on Apple TV+, as we previously discussed. Not sponsored. Very many cool shows on there. This is an American comedy television series created by Francesca Delbanco and Nicholas Stoller. It came out in May this year.

Rose Byrne plays Sylvia, who is a stay-at-home mother of three who used to be a lawyer and is very happily married and reconnects in the first episode with her former best friend, Will. And Will is played by Seth Rogen. Yeah. Yeah, who's recently divorced and runs a bar and is kind of a little depressed but kind of cool as well but doesn't have kids and is sort of living that kind of life.

They lost touch because she didn't like his wife that he has now divorced and that's how they kind of have reconnected. What do you think about it, James? I really like it. It's not, I think there are five or six in so there's still a few to go but it's really funny and really good. This is actually created by Francesca Del Blanco. Did you already say this?

I already said it. Oh, never mind. Sorry, I apologise. I wasn't listening. And also these guys, Rose Byrne and Seth Rogen, they've worked together before. They did the Neighbours films together and they've got a really good chemistry. They really do, don't they?

I think they also, I think those movies are great as well, but I think they work better platonically as they do romantically as well. I hope it doesn't go into like, it doesn't seem to be going that way. I don't think it will, but like they end up together for some reason. Oh, I hope not. But they've got this really kind of like fun but like toxic relationship that you can say it's kind of self-destructive but it's also a little bit supportive as well.

It's kind of this complicated thing. It's that thing of like you might have a friend from when you were younger and you went through all these things together and when you kind of catch up you kind of go back to the way that kind of was. It's got that kind of vibe. And as you mentioned, it's interesting because they live different lives. She has this like she's got a family of three kids. Yeah, and happily married too, which is just awesome.

Yeah, exactly. And I really love Luke McFarlane plays Charlie, her husband, and he's really good too. He's an attorney. Yeah, and he's in the movie Bros. He's the main love interest in the movie Bros, which is a fun movie that nobody saw. But, you know, I like Seth Rogen's kind of this,

even though I know he's recently divorced, but he feels like this kind of eternal bachelor kind of. Kind of like Seth Rogen, basically. Yeah, kind of Seth Rogen, yeah. But there's just a lot of really funny situations and lines in it. And it's not even just out of the two mains, who are very good in this, obviously, but it's shared around. Like everybody is funny.

Yeah, and delivers their lines really well. The script is really excellent. Carla Gallo plays Katie, Sylvia's best friend, and she has these really dry deliveries that are really and her scenes are quite short, but they're really, really good. Talk about that moment how they're because they're mums now, they're like invisible. So they're at the school drop off and they're just like trying

to like get people's attention and they're just like completely. Correct, yeah. What I really liked about it too, because they rekindling their friendship in their forties and there's something really interesting about friendships in midlife, I think, because they do have a lot of water under the bridge, especially friendships from when you were younger and you do drift. And I think having kids is a particularly big kind of divide for a lot of friendships and some are for a season rather than for your whole life. But those are friends that also have seen you through so much and knew you before you had kids. Before you are who you are.

Yeah. And what I find really interesting, I know I'm obsessed with matrescence at the moment, and I'm going to talk about my second recommendation in a minute, but I think it does a really good job of showing in a really funny way but in a true way the complexity of being someone who it seems like Sylvia's character was a really great lawyer, really smart, a big partier, had these like very funny lines and like a life that was like her husband at one point says, you were really wild when I met you. Yeah.

And I feel like I took your wild away from you because now she lives this very suburban mother kind of lifestyle. And there's one episode where she goes to a conference with her husband and there's a woman there who also has kids, but has chosen to keep working as a lawyer. And there's a real dynamic there where Sylvia clearly feels incredibly jealous and heartbroken about the fact that she's not doing that. And so goes and gets really drunk with her best friend, Will, and they kind of feed into each other. And it's a really funny episode, but it is also a really common story for women where once you have kids, it's this like idea that you don't always have to give up your career, but often it changes and it changes you so much more than you thought it would.

And so you end up this person. Matricence. Yeah, it's matricence. So you end up in this situation where you can no longer even recognise the person that you were in your 20s. And what's really beautiful about it is you can see in this friendship Sylvia rediscovering that person that she was. And when they first meet up up she's so uptight.

And that's what's kind of funny about that dynamic, right? Like they are so uptight. She's so uptight and he's so laid back. But over time she comes out again of her shell. She comes back into this kind of messy, drunken, sort of partying, very quippy kind of person while also realising that she is still a mum, that is responsible for three kids and is a wife too and loves her husband and is trying

to kind of navigate that. And I think it's a really common story in our 40s. Brene Brown recently was interviewed by. Our 40s. You 40, are you? No. Our 40s, Claire? I said, did I say our 40s?

I went pretty much, okay, you're going to be 40 this year and I'm like 37, so, you know, miles from 40. But it's midlife, right? But Tim Harris recently interviewed Brene Brown on a podcast and I saw her talking about this kind of midlife where all of the things that you built up over time to kind of keep you solid and like sort of armor around you and the old patterns that you kind of learned maybe from your parents and about being a good girl or a good citizen and all that stuff seem to start falling away in your 40s.

And maybe your kids are starting to get a little bit older if you had kids earlier in your 30s and you're starting to reassess everything about your life and where it's going and who you are. And it's just the idea of being like really silly and funny in your 40s and like rediscovering, like you don't have to just constantly be doing all of the right things all of the time and like, you know, following those patterns. There's that really funny scene in the bar where she takes Will out to celebrate his divorce and she ends up accidentally getting quite high. And there's a mum from her school there at the table who's trying to talk to her about soccer practice or something. And she's so wasted. And it's just, it's so incredibly funny to me because it is that juxtaposition,

right? Of like that community and that is really important to you and important to your kids but also you just want to be able to just totally be yourself and be free and yeah all of that and that complexity that sits in with it all but it's just also just hilarious i loved it me too i would highly recommend it give it a listen yeah but also watch it here's a question i think it brings up and it's obviously that age old question from from like when Harry met Sally about can men and women actually be friends. Yeah. And what do you think about that? Of course they can.

It's fucking ridiculous. Yeah. Like why wouldn't they? Yeah. I know. I know. I totally agree. And that's why I'm really hoping they don't take it in a kind

of romantic direction because the chemistry. They don't have that kind of chemistry anyway. No. I was about to say that. They have great chemistry though, right, in the friendship sense. Yeah. And I think there's an interesting episode where she brings up the idea of that.

Well, like, you know, obviously her husband's partner's old joke that she's got a boyfriend, you know, your wife's boyfriend and all of that stuff. And it is more complicated, I think, when you've got friends of opposite sex as opposed to when you're married. But I think it's way more common in your 20s almost. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's probably true.

But like I, you know, because we have similar friendship circles because we know each other and we're married. Yeah. But like I don't feel like the relationships I have with like the women are in that and like it doesn't feel different to like the guys really to me. Like it's like. No, I agree. It's the same like the friends of ours that and like it doesn't feel different to like the guys really to me. Like it's like. No, I agree. It's the same.

Like the friends of ours that we have who are like, yeah, of opposite sex or whatever, I wouldn't think of it in that way. And you can, I think it's just really refreshing to see it represented on the screen in that way. Yeah. You know, and in a really, really funny way. I just, I really like that. I think that's great. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway., and in a really, really funny way. I just, I really like that. I think that's great.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Normalizing it more. But you don't think women and men can be friends? No, never. Never the twain shall meet. No, I absolutely do.

I absolutely do. I think there definitely is that thing of like people waiting until like pretending to be friends to like to find their moment. I think that happens obviously. Yeah, that's interesting. That's a real thing and you'll notice sometimes when people get in relationships and then people get really like, you know, upset or like whatever because of it. Like that's not, that person's not your friend.

That's a parasite. What do you mean by that? Do you mean just, I think that happens with men and women. Yeah, totally. That's what I'm saying. When someone gets in a relationship. No, I mean like they're just biding their time. They're like if I hang around and I'm nice then eventually.

Eventually they'll see me as like. Yeah. Yeah, like the Pacey from Dawson's Creek kind of thing with Joey. Though I think that did work for him in the end. It certainly did, Joey, Pacey, whatever your name is. Yeah. I know. It's interesting, isn't it?

I do think there's something else in friendships that are interesting and more complicated as they get older. It also implies that like you can't be friends with someone because otherwise you'll find them too attractive, which is ridiculous. Yeah, I think it goes into that old school idea that men only want to have sex with women basically. Yeah. And that's what Harry says in When Harry Met Sally.

He's like, no, all men want to have sex with all women. I'm a grub, he says. I'm in my grub era. Yeah, but I think that's really like a limiting view. I mean that's from my perspective. I agree. Would you agree with that? It is limiting, yeah.

Yeah, and then it's also seeing women in one particular way, which is I think dangerous, which is what I love about this as well. Like Rose Byrne's character Sylvia is as funny, if not often funnier than Seth Rogen's character. She's someone I'm like I would hang out with this person. She's quite mean. She's mean, yeah. Which is great and really refreshing too.

I love it. But do you agree with this? Women be shopping. Do you think that's true? Some women be shopping. I think everybody actually be shopping. It just depends what you be shopping for. That's what I say.

I totally agree. Yeah, exactly. I was in you be shopping for. That's what I say. I totally agree. Yeah, exactly. I was in a shopping centre the other day, which I love. Yeah, you should be shopping. I do. And there was a – they actually had a literal husband drop-off point of like massage chairs and you sit on your phone or whatever. Oh, my God.

But to be fair, there are also women in there, so equality. We'll see. There you go. I just think don't take are also women in there. So equality. We'll see. There you go. I just think don't take the person. I know. Don't go. What are you doing? Like just don't go.

Like if you're like, oh, my wife's dragging me to the shops, don't go. What's wrong with you? I just never take you. No. But I never go either now. I hate them. They make me feel uncomfortable. Unless I have to.

Unless it's really raining and sometimes it can be a nice thing to do with kids. Anyway. But you do agree that women be shopping? Women be shopping. That was my second recommendation. Do you have another one? I do. It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats.

Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials.

Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. I do. Whoa. Kind of dovetails into a little bit of what we were talking before.

So as part of the tour that I'm going on, I'm visiting a community called Basingstoke. And the reason I'm going there is because there is an author who lives there called Lucy Jones, and she has written a book called Matrescence because, you know, I know that I talk about my album a lot, but anyway, it's called Matrescence as well. One of the things that's blown me away is that I found the word Matrescence by Googling.

Like I was just Googling something to call the album and I found Matrescence and I called it that without really fully comprehending the depth and breadth of what this word really means. And I think that's obviously a symptom of the lack of information about women's bodies in general and motherhood as I've talked many times before. And anyway, a friend of mine connected me with Lucy because her book comes out on the 23rd of June and Lucy was really kind and sent me an early copy. And so

I've read it and it is brilliant. What I love about it is that Lucy is actually a really amazing investigative journalist. So she takes her investigative journalism skills and her knowledge and love of like the natural world and botany and science and applies it to herself through her pregnancy. And she had a lot of similar difficulties in her pregnancy too. So it brings in all of this really cutting edge research that I'd never heard about, as well as telling her personal story of her birth and the whole idea of what happened to her when she became pregnant. It's really fascinating. And I'll just read a little bit more of the description.

So during pregnancy, childbirth and early motherhood, women undergo a far reaching psychological, physiological and social metamorphosis. So it's much bigger than we're led to believe than kitchen teas and some lovely cute onesies and make sure you've got the right pram. And this book really delves so deeply into it. I found it fascinating. There is no other time in a human's life course that entails such dramatic change other than adolescence. And yet this life-altering transition has been sorely neglected by science, medicine, and philosophy. Its seismic effects go largely unrepresented across literature and the arts. Speaking about motherhood as anything other than a pastel-hued dream remains,

for the most part, really taboo. And in this groundbreaking, deeply personal investigation, Lucy Jones brings to light the emerging concept of matrescence, drawing on new research across various fields, neuroscience and evolutionary biology, psychoanalysis and existential therapy, sociology, economics and ecology. Jones shows how the changes in the maternal mind, brain and body are far more profound, wild and enduring than we have been led to believe and she reveals the dangerous consequences of our neglect of the maternal experience and interrogates the patriarchal

and capitalist systems that have created the untenable situation mothers face today. It's such an important book. You were sucked into this book like I've never seen Claire. Oh, my God. It is such an important book. I've highlighted so many passages. I mean, even in terms of things like Lucy studies her own bacteria.

So she studies, she gets out, like she noticed that when she became pregnant, her sense of smell became incredibly heightened to the point where she could smell like an animal really. Yeah. And she really felt, and this is something that I really felt too, suddenly aware that her body was a creature and part of the earth and not, you know, we're not so separate from it. And it's doing like it's, you know, lactating,

all of these things that are kind of wild. Even the childbirth itself is a completely wild animalistic thing to do. It's not pastel-hued and like beautiful. It can be beautiful, but it's brutal and bloody and takes you to the very edges of yourself and you kind of meet death and come back from the brink. And she said once she had her baby, she noticed that her body odor was really intense and smelt a lot stronger than it had previously. And part of that is to do with your baby being able to recognize and find you. And so she was curious to see whether the bacteria that lived on her skin had changed. And she noticed that her odor was really different from her

partner's. So she actually grew some of her bacteria using, you know, bacteria from under her arms and her partner's in her, she did it, you know, with a friend who works in a lab at the university and she noticed she had really different bacteria from her husband's. Right, okay. Even from her brain, the difference in her brain from after she had children was really profound. Yeah. Like the changes that you could see within scans were really,

really interesting. Even the way that her thoughts were processed, the way that she became really sort of withdrawn in a lot of ways and hyper-focused on her baby. She said there's kind of this myth that women become stupider after they have kids, all that idea of baby brain. And she said actually what's happening is their brains are becoming really hyper-focused and more complex, less complex.

And there's also like obviously your focus is like entirely shifted. Yeah, and the idea that motherhood is kind of this idea of being mumsy and it's kind of floral and it's kind of passive is just a total bullshit myth. For example. Here we go. When she looked at, and I know, I can't remember if we've talked about this before on the show, I think we have, in terms of when a baby is conceived,

there's this really deeply misogynistic idea that the sperm just like fight each other and the best one wins. And actually the egg is really active in the whole process. The egg's like a bouncer. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it releases hormones and actually allows this one particular sperm that it decides into it. So it is the one that is like, you know, really pivotal

in that creation of life. And I think that idea highlights so much of what is thought about motherhood as being this kind of really soft, passive art when it's so incredibly complex. And as she says in the book, much harder than anything she's ever done before in her previous work and her job. And she was shocked by the culture and the way she was suddenly, yeah, almost made to feel invisible in this incredibly important work that she's doing. And then there's also aspects of breastfeeding, which I found incredibly fascinating. One of which is that she talks about a condition where women just have less mammary glands

in their breasts than others and so just can't produce enough milk. Yeah. Which I had just never heard. And so she deep dives into, from a scientific perspective, I knew it in my gut from observing the women around me. And also, yeah. And also myself, because I just didn't have enough milk no matter what I did. But I was never told, you might just not have enough milk to feed your baby.

I was told, eat these cookies, express all this, express all the time, feed around the clock, don't sleep. You're not trying hard enough. You're not, your baby's not latching properly. And so I was in incredible amounts of pain. Just feed around the clock. Don't sleep. You're not trying hard enough. You're not, your baby's not latching properly. And so I was in incredible amounts of pain and no one said to me, actually, what it might be is just that you don't have enough milk. And it's always this idea that the woman is failing. And she said, that's actually quite a new idea.

Because in a village context, some women produce so much milk, they would be the wet nurses and other women would be out on the fields. You know, it's just, there's so much wrong with our system and it's leaving so many women in our Western culture feeling so much shame and failure, not only around birth, but around how they feed their babies and then as they raise them as well, because it's almost, as she says, an impossible task to protect your babies in a culture and a system where the earth is being slowly poisoned from every angle as well. So it's so deep and complicated and the interdependence that we have on our natural world becomes so apparent once you become a parent, because not

only are your kids asking questions about why things are the way they are, even the fact that, for example, you were supposed to avoid particular fish because of the mercury content, that's not because those fish accidentally have mercury. No, they're not eating mercury out there. No, it's because of the poisoning of the ocean. So it's just, it suddenly brings you into this hyper focus of what it means to be a human. And I just think this idea of it being like this mumsy floral thing is just total bullshit. Anyway, I would so recommend this book.

So it comes out on the 23rd of June. It's called Intrescence by Lucy Jones. You should remind people next week as well when that comes out, yeah. I will, yeah. It's so worth reading and I'm going to be playing some music at people's lunch. Can people pre-order it? Yeah, they can. Yeah, they can.

And obviously she's going to be doing events in the UK about this book. I'm really hopeful that it just goes everywhere because it's also a really gripping read. Yeah. And I think would make a really excellent gift for someone in your life or for a woman who has kids too. I just think, and for women who are planning to have a family, I just think, actually for men, for everyone, because it affects all of us. Without this kind of knowledge, we don't have all of the tools that we need to be able to enter into parenthood in a way that's supportive and

knowledgeable. And there's just so much knowledge that has been lost and with, you know, I could go on forever. And will you? I will. But I do think there's a line that you can draw and Lucy does draw this line between the way that we treat women and the way we treat women who give birth and the way we are treating our planet and the way we are operating in our particularly Western individualised

system of late stage capitalism. All the things. I'll stop with the rant. the way we are treating our planet and the way we are operating in our particularly Western individualised system of late-stage capitalism. All the things. I'll stop with the rant. Go and buy Lucy Jones' book. It's bloody great. Listen, you can buy a book, sure. It's also just really interesting.

It's probably one of the best things to do. You could also see the movie The Flash. That's one of the best things that you could do in your life. I will talk about The Flash on Monday's episode of The Weekly Flash. You had many feelings about it when you came back. I have so many feelings about The Flash. I won't divulge what feelings. I will just say you had many.

Yeah. And you're avoiding seeing Mason. I am. Yeah. I mean, just in general, but also because of The Flash. Correct. Exactly. Boy, do I have big feelings about the movie The Flash, Claire.

You have. All right. You do. Okay. Off we go. You can review the show. You got big feelings about the show or even average to middling feelings. You can just open up whatever app you're listening to this on,

except for BigSandwich.co, which is our private subscription service where this goes up there early, where a bunch of people are members of. You can still review even if you are part of that, but I feel like you've done enough work. But listen, in-app you can just give us a five-star review if that is your inclination. I will not be reading out any other reviews or taking any criticisms at this time.

This one's from Wit Shumaker who says, five stars, Claire can't tell when her husband James is being sincere. Been listening to the Weekly Planet for about a decade now and didn't realize what James and Maiso did to my brain. Recently my friends sat down my roommates to tell us they didn't realize what James and Maisel did to my brain. Recently my friends sat down my roommates to tell us they didn't know when we were being sincere and we're not doing a bit anymore. So listen to Suggestible and allow a normal person, Claire, to care for your brain as she does for James.

It's from Woot. Thank you. That is so true. It's very confusing to know when you're being sincere because when you say sincere things I think, is that a joke? I'm sincere. Look at me. You're basically Chandler from Friends.

How dare you? But with grey hair. That guy hates Keanu Reeves or whatever in real life. No, you mean not Chandler from Friends. He's a character, James. He's a character. His actual name is Matthew Perry. No, I like to consider that that's him in real life.

All right. What do you got? I also have an email you can write to the show suggestible pod at gmail.com. This is one from two of our faves, some Pride Month suggestibles from Georgia Day. Hi, Claire and James. It's June, which means it's time for some flamboyant suggestibles from a couple of card of queers. Georgia, they, them, and Lottie, she, her.

Is it Dune or Dune? We've heard from these two before. Is that correct? Yeah, that's what I just said. A couple of our faves. A couple of our faves from the pod. Sorry. I just, my YouTube comments, I just refreshed them

and I shouldn't have done that. I'm now 100% locked in. Are you listening? Yeah, I'm listening. All right. Georgia and Lottie, hello, you two legends. What's going on? These are mostly classics, so apologies if you've seen

or read them already. First of all, we recommend being queer. But if you can't do that, here are some things to watch. No, I can't. I mean, we could. There's nothing, you know, stopping us. I am who I am, unfortunately. Yeah, me too.

I'm just an awful person. I feel like being queer seems like great, actually. Seems like there's a lot of fun, you know? Yeah, I do too. But, you know, I'm just a boring straight guy. And that's cool too, though, isn't it? What's wrong with that, Claire? Questionable.

Questionable. All right. Pose, a TV show about the New York ballroom scene in the 80s and 90s. Summerland, very soft, very warm film about a woman who has to take in an evacuee in World War II. What was Pose about? The New York ballroom scene in the 80s and 90s. All right. These all sound really great.

80s and 90s. All right. These all sound really great. Summerland, which is a very soft, very warm film about a woman who has to take in an evacuee in World War II and maybe she learns to love again and also she's a lesbian. Oh, my God, it's got Laurie Hoffman in it. That's from 2004. I know.

Are you thinking of the same show or is this a different show? I don't know. No, I think this is a different Summerland. Oh, okay. Yeah. No think this is a different Summerland. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, this is about World War II. Handsome Devil, cute coming-of-age story set in an Irish boarding school where everyone is obsessed with rugby and maybe Ned has a crush on a rugby boy.

Ooh. Black Sails, what if there was a gorgeous pirate epic that was also the best written narrative you've ever seen and there's also French accent. Homosexuality. Homosexuality. Is that how she means it? I can't do a French accent. I did watch Black Sosexuality. Is that how she means it? I can't do a French accent. I did watch Black Sails.

Some of Black Sails. I need to go back to Black Sails. There's also another queer pirate show with Taika Waititi in it. I can't remember the name of it, but he plays Blackbeard in it. Go on. Keep going. All right. Is that how they mean it?

Homosexuality. That's how you say it. Is that how you say it? And mean it. And mean it. Yeah. Read. The Inverts by Crystal Jeans.

Novel about a lavender marriage in the 1920s where they're both awful, awful people but you kind of love them anyway. Sick. Disobedience by Naomi Alderman. Novel about what if you were Orthodox Jewish but also a big lesbian. Oh, that was a cool film. Ah, amazing. That's got Rachel Weisz and Rachel McAdams, two Rachels.

I saw that movie actually. I haven't seen that movie. I saw it. It was really good. A Matter of Oats by Helen S. Wright. Big time sci-fi epic about revenge, honour, loyalty, empires and love. This one is sci-fi epic first. Gay love story second, Claire.

I reckon you'd hate this for sure. What's this one? What's that one? It's a big time sci-fi epic. A Matter of Oats. It's a book. What's that one? It's a big time sci-fi epic. A Matter of Oaths. It's a book. And listen to The Gathering podcast. Yeah, this one is a self-plug because it's a podcast I do with work all about being queer

and Christian and the intersections of all of that. I particularly recommend Series 3 where we do little reports on historical queer Christians and get yelled at on the internet about it. Yeah, that's awesome. Yay. Anyway, I hope you're all having a fabulous June. Thank you for all the laughs and the fun you guys bring to our ears every week.

Love, Georgia and Lottie. Thank you, Georgia and Lottie. What was that last podcast called? We'll give it a quick plug. The Gathering Podcast. The Gathering. You should definitely listen. That sounds great.

I'm going to go and listen. All right, cool. Thank you so much, Georgia and Lottie. La, la, la, la, la, la. Okay, and that's it. Another show for the week all done and dusted. Bing, bong, bing. Wow, is that your new sign-off?

I don't know. Maybe. It's not really quite as good as Grab That Gem, is it? But, you know. No, that's all right. One can only try. That's true. And we'll see everybody next week in a different show.

We will. I promise not to cry about a gum tree this time. Don't make promises you can't keep clear. True, I'll cry at everything. Alright, bye! Bye! Thank you as always to our colleagues for ending this week's episode and also to Maisie for running our socials. You're all excellent. They've done it again. Bing bong bing! Introducing Uber Teen

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