Suggestible - Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

Suggestible things to watch, read and listen to. Hosted by James Clement @mrsundaymovies and Claire Tonti @clairetonti.New music, merch, live show info and much more available at https://www.clairetonti.com/This week’s Suggestibles:10:14 Gelareh Pour on Spotify12:58 Women, Life, Freedom17:48 Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory48:58 BlancSend your recommendations to [e-mail], we’d love to hear them.You can also follow the show on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook @suggestiblepod and join our ‘Planet Broadcasting Great Mates OFFICIAL’ Facebook Group. So many things. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Uber Teen Accounts. Invite your teen to join your Uber account today. Available in select locations. See app for details. I was going to do my bing bong. Sorry, I was. You just really. Right.

You can do it today. Okay. Go. Let's get into it. This is suggestible. Every week we go, here's some things we've been watching or reading or listening or doing. That was not a bing bong.

And we recommend them to you. You've really done it. I have to do the bing bongs now. Okay. Because you've really stuffed it. All right, you ready? Three, two, one. Go.

Bing bing bong, whatever, bing bing bong. We've really stuffed started at the beginning. Hello. Welcome to Suggestible Podcast, a podcast of recommendations for what to watch, read, and listen to. My name is Claire Tonti. James Clement is there also. Yep.

We are married and we talk about stuff that we like and swap notes and laugh along. And I usually do a bing bong intro, but not today because James laughed over it. You still managed to grind the whole thing to a screeching halt when I thought I did a very good job at the intro. Grind the halt into a screeching halt. Yes, that's right. You heard me. Wow, the comic genius.

You heard me. Of Mr. Sunday movies. Claire, what's your favourite John Wick movie? The one with Keanu Reeves. That one. You need to be more specific. The one where he takes a candle wick and shoves it in someone's bottom. I think that's something that you imagined in your spare time.

Look, let's talk about it off pod. Okay. Just a quick question. Are you looking forward to John Wick? Look, 17 years of marriage or something, however long we've been for. A candle wick? You've got to keep things spicy. Like the wick, not even the candle, just the wick.

Yeah, look, as you know. I was going to make a terrible joke then about like width or girth or something, but I won't because that's inappropriate. If you put a wick in somebody's bottom and then lit it, you could call that human candling or something. Yeah, but how would you light it once it's in the bottom? Well, you'd have a bit sticking out the end, wouldn't you, Claire? Oh, so it would just be the wick, not with the candle.

Yes. But I actually think when you light a candle, it's the wax that burns, not the wick. What? Yeah. It's the wax that burns. Isn't the wax melting away while the wick is burning? I think it's the wax that burns.

Or some kind of combination. The wax doesn't burn because otherwise you could light the wax. Oh, yeah, good point. We're not scientists on this show. I'm sure there's some kind of heat correlation between the two and whatever. I'm sure. This is very reminiscent of the bog debate and also the one where we were trying to explain how the sperm and the egg work.

That's true. And everyone panicked. Can we have somebody write in? And I don't want someone who just looked it up. I want somebody who maybe this is their area. They've made candles. Maybe they're in the industry. Maybe they worked at the body shop. I worked at the body shop for a while. You don't know. Yeah. Over Christmas for many years, I wrapped presents. I was really good at it. I don't know about candles. No, no, I don't. It's almost like there could be a machine in our hands that could tell us

these things, but no, we want from real people, the listeners of this show, tell us how candles work. It's about reaching out to people. For the love of God. Phones have ruined everything because everybody knows everything and nothing at the same time. It's all about connection. We want a real candleologist.

Schooling needs to be overhauled because if it's just like regurgitating shit, you don't need that in real life really. Like a lot of the times things can be learned quickly or you can just have the answer. You can go, what's this? And you look it up and you go, oh, it's this. Do you know what I'm saying? I see what you're saying, mate.

I see what you're saying. It's like with this chat, GTP can write essays or whatever, right? What is this? You know that thing, that program you can do anything? Oh, the AI app that terrified me. Our friend Dan showed us and it can basically write you an essay. Yeah, which is good. But I think that then you need to,

if there's basically a machine that can write essays for you, then what's the point of doing them? Which I think means education should be like refocused. Oh, this is so deep. Yeah, there's so many layers to this though because actually then what is the point in anything? And my whole thing is that I think human beings are designed to be creative where that's essentially at the heart of what

keeps us mentally well and so if we just give all of that over to machines yeah I agree then I think that's incredibly bad for us like actually the process of doing the process of writing, the process of creation is our purpose here. And so the more that we give that over to machines, the worse our mental health will be, as you can see. I don't disagree with that. But what I'm saying is if there's a machine that can just punch out an essay on whatever book and it's like a C standard or whatever at minimum, right, then you need to reassess what you're actually testing for, what the person actually knows.

Does that mean your writing needs to be like more specific to you and like more personal? Does that mean that you need to be kind of more creative with it? Do you know what I mean? Like so you need to adapt to what this is because it's not going to go away. Like when the calculator was invented, like it was slowly and it's still slow because the TI-83 calculators are still in school for some fucking reason.

But it's a whole – they've got a monopoly on schools, Claire. I don't want to get into it. I actually think it is going to go away eventually because we're burning out all our resources. So at a certain point we're going to end up in a world where we no longer have technology and computers because we don't have the means to be. Well, then why do we need to write essays?

Because we'll no longer have the energy, the fuel, to be able to create energy to fuel the computers and we need to be able to do things ourselves. That's why essays are important. So you're proposing maybe like a bike-powered computer so you can pedal and go on the internet at the same time. No, I'm proposing that we use our actual human brains and read and then create writing pieces on those things.

But I'm saying if the educational standards can be met by a computer. I'm bored by this conversation. No, no, just because you're bored, everybody else is enthralled and enthralled. If your educational standards can be met by a computer, then you need to change it. It's the same with a calculator, right? Maths at school evolved when you brought a calculator into it

because suddenly there's math that you could do became more complex because you're given this piece of equipment, right? So it evolved. So, you know, your workings became more like a combination of what you're working at and also using the calculator, right? And I think there needs to be like a similar shift. I mean with the art thing, it's all fucked where AI art can like just steal a bunch of everybody's work and then like put it.

It's awful. Like that's awful. Makes me feel ill and awful. So can we just move on because it's making me feel really depressed. But you're still saying, just to clarify, bike-powered computer. I never said that. In the apocalypse. As you're running from the orders.

No, what I'm saying is there's been a huge loss of skill in our Western culture, not in other places in the world because they don't have endless money and wealth and technology. And so there's been a huge loss of skill which actually I think also equates to some mental health challenges. Definitely. That we are seeing in the Western world. Yeah.

You know, what was us in our, you know, with all of the wonderful things that we have to keep our lives comfortable. However, I also think there is so much that is good for us in the process of being connected to where our food comes from, connected to how our clothes are made. All of that stuff is the stuff that keeps us well. And so we're designing technology to the point now where we can recreate the natural world on a screen,

where we can recreate the human brain in an AI, where we're building this internet that is really just the reflection of our own internal turmoil and insanity. Yeah. And it's bad for us. I agree. We're so complex as human beings because all we seem to do is toil away

and work hard at fucking ourselves over in every possible way. I don't think it's individuals. I think it is like it's the crushing weight of capitalism, Claire, and it's taking these tools and then manipulating so they basically turn us into products and increase our productivity. Exactly, which is why I think by fighting back and not using them, I think that's important. I mean the tech revolution is the same as like the industrial revolution

and having like all these different kind of mechanical things that you can have in your household since like the 40s or 50s are supposed to like increase the amount of leisure time that everybody has. Like, you know, the Silicon Valley promise that, you know, we're going to have all these amazing advancements which makes our life easier. But it's just basically tracking us and showing us ads.

That's what it's basically been built towards. Yeah, because it's all about people as product. I think these things can be used for good, but they are not on the whole. And they won't be. No. No, there'll just be another way of collecting our data and creativity and then selling it somehow. Yep.

Which is why I'm saying I don't want this kind of technology to be integrated into our curriculum that our kids are being taught or into our university systems, because I think it's robbing them and us of the worth and wealth of human ability and in our own brains. And I just, it troubles me enormously. I also think the technology that the amount of energy that it expends to generate this kind of app on our phones, even like the phones themselves are made so unethically with all of the world's and earth's resources poured into them for the very top echelon and top few of our globe. And so it, all of it is awful and gross. And can we talk about some things that we can watch

and read and listen to? Because I don't want to talk about this anymore. It's making me feel ill and depressed and it's everything I hate about the world. Also, can you turn the lights off in here? It's too bright. I was going to say, cause I know you don't, you just talk about lights, but you've never turned a light off in your absolute goddamn life, Claire. All right. Sure. Can we just turn the light? Thank you so much. Yeah, well, that's fine. I'm okay with it not being integrated in schools. That's fine. But then you need to build an educational system which doesn't mean people are just going to lean on it anyway.

All right. Okay, cool. Let's move on. Let's get to happy. What's your first record? Oh, my God. What have you done? So depressing.

I'm nearly 10. I know. Have we depressed everyone enough? I hope so. Dear God. All right. Well. Did you watch the Oscars?

I did not. Michelle, you won. I know. That was so for everything, everywhere, all at once. Yeah, a huge Oscars. So exciting. I know. First Asian woman to ever win the Oscar for Best Support, Best Actress.

I believe so. I'm pretty sure. Or maybe second. I think there was a woman who won like in the 30s, but she had to like hide the Asian heritage or something. Of course she did. But I don't know what specifically what Oscar that was for. But yeah, anyway, sorry, go on.

All right. Well, I've just come off the back of the All About Women Festival. So this whole week has been just a giant celebration and also an incredibly depressing look at where things are for women currently globally. And it's like it's awful. But it's also really inspiring at the same time. And I've just come off the back of watching all of these incredible speakers. but it's also really inspiring at the same time. And I've just

come off the back of watching all these incredible speakers. The All About Women Festival was at the Sydney Opera House. And I was also lucky enough to meet some incredible artists and authors while I was there. And I've got two women I want to talk about specifically today, both of whom's art I really admire, but also they were just really beautiful human beings as well, which is also really nice. So the gala on the Saturday night had a whole lot of different artists performing and sharing. It was emceed by one of my favorite singer-songwriters, Claire Bowditch, and she did an amazing job at entertaining us all. She sang as well.

She sang her song Woman, actually, which I'd recommend checking out on Spotify. And also she had such a difficult job because not only were the names so varied of the artists, but also their content was so deeply emotive, often very dark and confronting. And so she had to kind of come out after each performance and be like, well, hi, everyone. Here's the next thing that we're going to talk about. You know, global climate crisis and the ridiculous rates of inequality in the world and what's happening in Iran. So I will say what I'm about to talk about is also fairly depressing. What a depressing episode.

Well, how about I come out afterwards and go, wow, everybody, terrific. But also inspiring. So the first artist I want to talk about is Jalada Poha, who is an Iranian woman who I saw perform her original music. It's absolutely beautiful. She was born in Iran and is a singer-songwriter and she plays the Persian spiked fiddle, which is this incredibly beautiful instrument.

It sounds a little like a violin or almost like a cello, but the base of it is covered in animal skin. And she uses that but then is an experimental artist now too in that she loops her music. It's so beautiful. And the way she performed it by having a microphone laying on the skin of the instrument and then looping it into an amp and then using her voice and breath to loop over the top of it created this kind of beautiful atmospheric drone. And she performed a song

that was so haunting and moving about what's happening to women in Iran currently. And this particular song she performed was about the death of a nine-year-old girl who was shot by the military at the time in Iran. So it was so incredibly moving, but her artistry is so beautiful. And I saw her perform a second song at the panel that was talking about women life freedom, which is the Iranian women's movement, which is actually just the most incredible movement fighting against the occupation of the country and the incredibly oppressive regime that is stopping women from all of their basic human rights. So, for example, Jalaria was telling me that in her home country

she was unable to perform solo at all. She could only perform in choirs and she wasn't allowed to sit because when you play her instrument you have to sit with your legs out and the instrument between your legs. Yeah, she couldn't sit playing that. No, she wasn't allowed because it was seen as inappropriate. So how did she play it? Well, she didn't. Oh, okay.

She only did it privately, not publicly. Yeah, okay. And so when she came to Australia, she was then able to finally perform as a solo artist. So even that alone is so inspiring. And she's been here now for nine years as well, which I think is amazing. You can find her across Melbourne, playing in different places. She has a BA at the Art University of Tehran's Conservatorium and her Masters of Ethnomusicology at the University of Melbourne. And she's completed

her unique academic research on the lives of Iranian women singers in Diaspora at MCM, in which she introduces the professional aspects of seven selected Iranian female singers living before and after migration. So I would so recommend going to check out her work. She's just about to release a new album as well with her partner, Brian O'Dwyer, who's a drummer. And I cannot wait to hear her new music. She's just about to release a new album as well with her partner, Brian O'Dwyer, who's a drummer. And I cannot wait to hear her new music. She's won all kinds of awards and it's so original and so unique.

And she's also just really funny and awesome as a person. So I really recommend going to check out Gelada Poole. So you spell it G-E-L-A-R-E-H-P-O-U-R and you can find her on Spotify. Awesome. That's unreal. She's really cool and just also really fun. Yeah. So I just really loved her a lot and it was a really lovely thing

that I got to meet her, particularly when I just respect someone's art so much. What else I loved is that I've always wanted to perform looping like that. I even bought a loop pedal but never did it. You knew asking her all about it, right? Yeah. And she said the same thing, that she'd always, she went to study with all these musicians who were all looping and she'd never done it before and she was really frustrated

at herself and felt like she wouldn't be able to. And then she took the leap and her partner Brian helped her to do it. And I had, and she said, you just have to give it a go. Yeah. And that was so inspiring because it reminded me yet again that we all have like um insecurities and we all have things that like watching her I thought she was just this expert and it turned out that it was something she had to really take a big leap into to try and play but on her own and so the fact that she can

now do it is just like so cool. I just loved it. Anyway, yeah, really, really cool. And I imagine there wouldn't be a lot of like material with that particular instrument like being used in that way also. Not here. Not here, no. It's a very traditional common instrument. No, I mean like with the looping.

Oh, yeah, I think it's very, very experimental and I would say not many other people at all are doing it. Even to find the right kind of microphone to be able to because it doesn't have a plug-in. It's not like a traditional guitar. You can't get like an electric one? No, nothing like that. No, because it's animal skin.

So they had to find a specific type of microphone that they could lay over the skin to be able to loop it, as I was saying before. Music nerds are loving this, Claire. Oh, my gosh. Honestly, I went deep into everything they were using, even just the microphone that she used to then record her voice looping into the pedals to then sing over the top was just amazing. I saw her perform a second performance. It's all in Iranian, but the poem she performed as a song was called The Hangman. And it was about,

it's a very sort of violent about what was happening in Iran at the time. And so I was speaking later to a man who was Iranian and he was saying he was sobbing because it was just, when you understand the translation, it's even more moving. But listening to her voice, you can just hear how raw and the depth of suffering that is happening in the country at the moment. But also the movement over there, it's just incredible what women are achieving.

And even the fact I was speaking to some women afterwards who were saying that there are Iranian spies everywhere at the moment keeping tabs on Iranians living here, particularly women. So, yeah, really encourage. It is terrifying. So really I'd encourage you to go and find her music and also become more educated, yeah, about what's happening in Iran.

I know we've seen a little bit of media coverage. Another thing I have to be educated on. All right, I guess I will. Imagine, imagine. Anyway, so that's that. That's, yeah, Jalara. Go. Hi, this is Katnett Unfiltered.

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than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.ca slash host. Your turn. Well, I'm going to recommend a movie that everybody knows and is 50 years old. I love that. 52 years old. It's called Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. And you might know, Claire, that the name of the book, which it's based on, is actually Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. So when they did a second adaptation of the book, it's not good. It's not a good movie and don't watch it.

But the original from 1971, I want to say, is just a wonderful collection of 1970s style comb-overs. Incredible. You wouldn't believe it, Claire. It is 71, yeah. So it stars, among others, Gene Wilder, Peter Ostrom as Charlie Bucket, Julia Dawn Cole. The kids that are in it are now mostly like out of acting.

Like I know the guy who's Charlie Bucket is like a vet now or whatever. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, there you go. They're all doing like different normal people stuff. But anyway, if you haven't seen it, which you probably have, and if you don't know the story, which you probably do, it's about a little poor boy called Charlie Bucket and he's just, my God,

that kid just does the saddest little boy I've ever seen on screen. Just like it's a sadness that it feels like you can't fake. I don't know. I know he wasn't really sad in real life, I assume, but he's just so like tragic and just like downtrodden. They really nail the casting for all of the characters in this. Anyway, he loves chocolate. He's from a very poor family and everybody in his family

except his mum sucks. And there's a chocolate factory in town and it's a magical chocolate factory and nobody knows how it works and whatever. And so the guy who runs the chocolate factory, his name is Willy Wonka Chocolate Factory, and he sends out five golden tickets to five people who they can come and visit his chocolate factory and get a tour and then a lifetime supply of chocolate. Now, obviously, the other four people who get the tickets, the kids come from like immense wealth. So they're like opening thousands upon thousands of chocolate bars to get the golden ticket, right? But Charlie opens like three and lo and behold, he gets it. Was it a setup? Did Willy Wonka plan it? I think yes. I think he planned it. I think

he did it on purpose. But anyway, so then that's the tour through the Chocolate Factory. But before that, there's just a bunch of really weird, offbeat, almost like skits, like leading up to them entering the Chocolate Factory because you cut around the world and see how different places are like reacting. And there's just weird little comedy scenes. Like Charlie Bucket's teacher, I don't know if you remember. No, I don't. He's so funny.

And I think he is a British comedic actor. I don't even know his name in front of me. But he's just bizarre and off the wall and maybe a terrible teacher or maybe he's kind of doing it on purpose. And it's just great. And there's also like a ransom scene, which is really funny, where like a woman's husband gets kidnapped and they don't want money. They want the Wonka bars.

And she's like, uh. But all the kids as well are amazing. They're so good in it, all of them. They're just wonderful actors. And Grandpa Joe, I used to always think, Claire, up until recently even, what a piece of shit, right? And this is especially in the movie but it also is in the book. So in the book, Charlie Buckethead has a father. In this version, he doesn't.

He's only got his mum and his four grandparents and they're all 90 years old and sickly and lying in bed. So Charlie Bucket does his paper round and his mum does seemingly, I don't know, washing for a living. I don't know what exactly she does. Something awful and hard for not a lot of money. Cabbage soup. And there's a moment in there where Charlie Bucket comes home and he's got his money that he earned. He's like, grandpa, here's your money for tobacco and he's like I should probably give up smoking tobacco and I'm like you fucking should give up what are you doing what are you you're not even bringing anything to this family and anyway and then after the golden ticket is revealed they're like well you can bring one out I don't with you to the chocolate factory and he goes well I pick my

granddad but he can't but he can't get out of. He's been in bed for 20 years and then he's like, look at me. I'm literally dancing now. He's actually dancing. He's standing up doing a cute little dance. That's a big song and dance. It's a very cute little dance. The mum who should be the one going with him has the worst song in the movie. Cheer up, Charlie.

The worst. Give me a smile. Yeah. And she's just standing at the doorway like watching him go. Yeah. It's so fucked. It's so sad. It's so sad.

And I totally agree with you. It's just bullshit. It's so ridiculous that not only is she like looking after four elderly people plus her son and they have no money, this amazing thing happens to the family and not her gets to go, oh, no, she has to keep scrubbing floors and making cabbage soup and looking after the three other elderly people while Grandpa Joe suddenly miraculously is fine and gets to go

and have a wonderful adventure. Here's the thing right now. Such bullshit patriarchy. Here's the thing that I realised. What? He's probably got depression and that's why he's probably also not mentally well. And that's what I think.

I don't think that's what it actually is because it's a story and whatever. Why do you think? So you think that with Grandpa Joe? Because he didn't get out of bed for 20 years and he could have. Oh, I see. So I think that was like he'd just been like he'd lived through, like he lived in eras where like he lived like in the 1800s or whatever.

Like he would have been born in like 1880 or something like that, you know, probably earlier. Like multiple world wars and Great Depression and, you know, and all of these kinds of things. Just a horrible life. So he's like, I'll just stay in bed and smoke tobacco, which I respect. I love that. But no, it still should have been the mum.

So anyway, that's how I've come to see it. Because everybody's got a story. He's still a piece of shit. Because if he can get up, he should go, no, Charlie's mum, you should go. So I can look after everyone. Yeah, there's not even like, oh, maybe you should. And is that her dad? I can't remember.

Is Grandpa Joe her dad or is it her husband's dad? I can't remember. It doesn't matter, I think. Either way. Yeah. She's the saddest looking woman too. Anyway, Gene Wilder is introduced as Willy Wonka. Excellent.

38 years old, by the way, but he shot this. Oh, my God. Which is younger than I currently am. Younger than me as well. No, older than me. How old am I? I don't even know. You've really planted that seed, listen.

You're 41, Claire. No, I'm 37. God damn it. Gene Wilder is fucking incredible. I'm so glad he's still so good. I know he isn't in everything, but he's, oh, my God. Like, he's so funny. And his delivery and even, like like the little role he does.

He's so weird. Like offbeat but perfectly timed. And he's just, he's like dry and mean and really funny and astute. And a bit scary. A bit scary. And there's things that he says that like people don't pick up on. And he mightn't even pick up the first time you say it because he just kind of says, throws out some like flippant stuff just like every now and then

that's just like that's really like cutting and people are just like, did it just dissolve you? Oh, he also hints at really magical worlds as well. Yeah, totally, yeah. Which I also love but it's just dropped like it's lore and never really addressed again. Which I also love because as a kid you then felt like, oh, there's this whole other world of magical things

that we don't really know about. Anyway, as I've talked about before, I think I talked about this on the Sands Pants podcast, but I think he's an escaped Nazi scientist. You did tell me this. I hit you up earlier in the week and I'm like, Claire, I think he's a Nazi scientist and I think the British got him and they went to work at a chocolate factory. Yeah, you just exploded on a chocolate factory knowledge bomb with me

and I was in this world of like women's rights and equality and music and being like, I cannot listen to your rant on chocolate and the Chocolate Factory. Because, Claire, the nations of the earth, they basically borrowed or they just hooked into all the incredible scientists who were coming out of Nazi Germany after the war. Like very famously, like the entire NASA space program is built off the back of like Nazi

scientists and whatever, you know? So that's fun. So that's what I think he is. He's probably not. But anyway, it's also, there's been a lot of discourse recently because they decided to change the books, the recent ones to be like, well, instead of saying Augustus Gloop is fat, let's say he's enormous. I hate that.

And it's like, what are you even doing? Like, and the other thing is they're like, well, everything's woke and gone too far and look what the woke people have done now. Nobody asked for this. Literally nobody was like, you need to change this. This is something the publisher obviously did because they thought they could sell. They did the calculations and they thought they could probably drum up some,

you know, some controversy in PR. And then also what they ended up doing is selling both versions. And probably people rushed out to be like, well, I better get these versions now before. They changed them. It's fucking bullshit. But even before that, like there are earlier versions because the Oompa Loompas originally were like pygmies

from the deepest dark African jungle. So he basically takes Africans from Africa and brings them to a factory to make them work for beans, like cacao beans or whatever, like literally. So Roald Dahl changed that in like the 60s, I want to say. So the version that most people have read has already been changed. And like I don't even care they change it. They could change it 100 times.

I don't give a shit. It doesn't matter to me at all. But just this idea that these things haven't constantly been happening and like this is anything other than just a PR move is a lunacy. Because oftentimes, you know, you get like incredibly right wing shows being like, the left is this and they want to take away this. And it's like, no, that's your narrative that you're saying, but nobody wants this. It's always like, they don't want to take away your freedom. Nobody's saying this. You're saying this. But, you know, when you control the narrative, you know,

you can say whatever. Totally. Exactly. Can I just make a point? Sure. I think one of the, and I'm curious to see if it still holds up, the best scene is when he sings that iconic song and they can eat everything in that world with the chocolate river.

You know, come with me and we'll be in a world of pure imagination. And just that whole like that little part, I still get shivers when I think of it. I watched that so many times as a kid because it's just so magical and the idea that you can just pick off a leaf and eat it. Because I looked into like the making of this or I knew some of it and it's interesting going back to it because you can see all the seams. Yeah.

Like you can see like it's a factory and you can see like the factory wall at the back and there's like limits on like you can see the walls and everything because we just, Alsan and I, we just finished the book and then we watched the movie. And when you go in there, like all these entire factory is underground and it's like this expanse and this enormous river and waterfall. But obviously for the movies you can't do that. You've got to kind of put it in a factory setting.

So like I know which parts are edible and which aren't, and they didn't show the kids until they brought them in. Like the kids hadn't seen any of it. So it's like there's like these giant gummy bears and they're balloons except the ears are edible and you see that because the kid takes one off and she only bites into the ear. And there's a moment where he eats like the daffodil cup. Yes, I love that.

That's wax. Like he's eating like wax, yeah. So it's really cool. But it's funny because the song that our son wanted me to put because he's got an MP3 player that I've talked about before that I put music on that's not connected to the internet and whatever. It is connected to chat GDP actually. Is it?

No. Oh, God. I had a heart attack. I was like, everything's connected. No, because that freaks me out because he has that with him a lot. It's completely separate from everything. It can Bluetooth to a speaker or whatever. Which has been the best thing actually.

People have asked also what is that. I'll find that during the show. But he wanted this. I was worried about the bit where they go into the tunnel. Oh, it's really scary. And there's like a chicken beheaded and there's all these like bugs and creepy crawlies. It's for a lot.

And Willy Wonka is like just ramping up like a lunatic and he's like, I want that song. And I was worried that like I even told him, I'm like, there's a bit in it where like a lot of, you know, people have been freaked out by this. Just so you know it's coming up and this is what it is. And it was worried that like I even told him, I'm like, there's a bit in it where like a lot of, you know, people have been freaked out by this just so you know it's coming up and this is what it is. And it was like whatever. What is that song?

I can't remember it. It's that. How does it go? I can't even remember. I'll have to bring it up. Yeah, because I can't. I'm trying. I know what it'd be and it's kind of like things are getting creepier

and it's like the song ramps up and there's sort of like technicolor lights happening and it's sort of dark.s up and there's sort of like technicolour lights happening and it's sort of dark. That's all I can really remember because I haven't seen it in like 20 years, I reckon. It's great. I'm going to bring it up. The other thing that I thought was...

Oh, yeah. Oh, it gets so crazy. Yeah, it's like being in a weird... There's a hurricane a-flowing. He wants this song? The effect of light is showing, so the danger must be grown. He wants this song? and they're certainly not showing any signs that they are slowing. This is the bit that he wants. Oh, my God.

That's not it. You know what's funny? It just stops and they're here. I think they're just in a tunnel and the lights are off, like and they're not moving and there's just like. Lights going around. Yeah, totally. That's so funny.

That's one of the ones. What I also love is that our daughter really hated the orange, like the orange Oompa Loompas. She was like the orange faces. And I came back from the festival show. I hope it was the orange faces. That's what she said. Yeah, she's like I don't like the orange faces of the people.

She was like really freaked out by the Oompa Loompas, which is so interesting. I just love people's imaginations. Yeah. I love how also he just like explodes at the end. There's a moment where the Grandpa Joe comes in and he's like, where's the chocolate? And he just goes, bananas.

And it's kind of for no reason. Because the whole thing is just like a trick from the start. And it was like the final test. And the reason he wants the kid is because he's like, I want somebody who works here who will do it. He even says this in the book as well. I want someone who does exactly what I say. And I want that person to continue my legacy and a kid I can mold. Wow. And it's sort of phrased as someone who's pure and has innocent and has good intentions or something. Is that part of it?

Yeah, but I think he's a lunatic. I mean, yeah, definitely. But, yeah, so he wants somebody who can, yeah, who can basically make into a version of himself. Wowza. And, yeah, he does. There is a sequel book and I read it as a kid, The Great Glass Elevator, and it's not good from memory.

No, I remember not liking it either. I think sometimes some stories are complete in the first section. You know, I just feel like there's something about that very first, that story arc that is perfect. There's not a lot of sequels to his books. Do you know I love how Roald Dahl writes his books as well. Have you ever watched a documentary about him? So fascinating.

Oh, yeah, we've talked about it. Yeah, we have, haven't we? He had like a special writing chair and special pencils and he would sort of sit in his back garden in this little shed and just go into his imagination. Yeah. I love that idea. It's really fascinating as a human being.

So he did Boy and Going Solo and that's about his life and those are a continuation. Those are great. Also, he's probably a big racist. Yeah, and this is the duality of it all, isn't it? Because also he was brazed in a time that was incredibly racist as well. Yeah, he's said some pretty anti-Semitic shit over the years. Yeah, I can imagine.

But also like by today's standards really bad, by then probably like probably very progressive. Yeah, exactly. That's what I mean. Which is not like that's not me saying that's fine. No, it's not fine. But I think that's what's interesting about art, right, this whole idea of censorship.

And it's tricky because obviously you don't want to be promoting ideas that are toxic and hurtful and colonisation and all of those things that are so like obviously harmed so many people. But also you can't erase history. No. We need to look at it as an art piece of that time and then be able to compare it to what we do now going forward. I think it's dangerous to just start erasing and changing everything.

And I'm more for like. And pretending like it never happened or that people didn't hold those ideas. Yeah. And I think we're clever enough to be able to analyse them in that way. And I think like Disney putting warnings in front of their old movies, I think is a great example of that. And I've tried to show my kids some of those cartoons and they're not that into them. And also I watch them and go. I don't watch them. No, I'm not that interested anymore. Yeah. And I've tried to show my kids all of those cartoons and they're not that into them. And also I watch them and go, no, I'm not that interested anymore.

No. But I do think it's important to have that messaging at the start but not delete them because they're art of a particular time in history. I think, yeah, and it's the same when you read stuff with our kids, especially the older one because he understands it more. But when you come across things like that, it's important to have that conversation. You know, I think that's – you'd be like this was written in a certain era and obviously now this is not something that you would say or do.

Yeah, well, actually on this, I found this interesting. We're reading Matilda at the moment. Yeah. And I'd totally forgotten there's a part where Miss Honey talks about what happened to her father. So if you haven't read the book, I think most people have, but Miss Honey is Matilda happened to her father. So if you haven't read the book, I think most people have, but Miss Honey is Matilda's teacher and she's obviously very poor because her aunt, who's Miss Trunchbull, the evil principal,

has forced her to live by herself and stolen her father's home and her inheritance. But the narrative is in the book that her dad killed himself. Oh, is it? And it says that. Like I was reading it to our son last night and literally it says, so the idea was that they made it, it looked like he killed himself but actually she thinks Miss Trunchable did it.

Yes. And I read that and I was thinking and then I sort of saw it and I thought, will I read this? Yeah. I think I will. But I didn't, I'd sort of now think to myself, and our son didn't question me about it. Yeah. But now I'm reflecting, I wonder if I should I will. But I didn't, I'd sort of now think to myself, and our son didn't question me about it. Yeah.

But now I'm reflecting, I wonder if I should raise it. Should I not read that part? But then obviously. I think it's worth like talking about. Yeah. Or even just see if he remembers because maybe he just didn't. Just blanked it. Yeah.

Yeah, because that is something that obviously is a part of humanity that happens. But how young do we want him to really understand that kind of what can happen in life? Yeah, it just really got me because I really was not prepared for that kind of content in a book. But then, you know, he's almost eight and he's really savvy about a lot of things.

So, yeah, it was really interesting. And the same in that story, there's a lot about Matilda's mum being like she values her looks over books because she wants to catch a man and Miss Honey values books over looks and so is single and isn't that an awful thing? You know, look at me, I'm so beautiful and look at you. And I was reading that whole bit thinking, God, this is weird too, isn't it? There's so much in there.

Well, yeah, it's also like it's a highlight that her mother is like a terrible person. Exactly. But I just realised our son hadn't even been really exposed to that kind of idea of like a woman catching a man. You know, all that concept of romantic love or, yeah, or just, you know. We were talking about this the other night and how now there are less benefits for a woman marrying a man than vice versa.

Oh, really? We were talking about this. Oh, with us. Oh, I thought you meant with our son. I was thinking, what? Yeah, I was like, well, yeah, no, that's a conversation I will have because for both people that are married, you both need to bring something. The idea of a marriage isn't, well, I think, is that, you know,

one person looks after the other one like wholeheartedly. I understand there is push and pull and different times people need different things and whatever. But I think if you're going into a marriage and you're the one doing all the work, then don't. Just don't do it. Find someone else. Yeah.

Or just stay single. Who cares? Yeah, because we were talking about that historically marriage has been wonderful for men and terrible for women. Like in terms of domestic load, not in our house. You've actually been bearing the brunt of all the domestic load. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

But usually for women our domestic load like triples or something when we have kids and men stays the same and their career tends to take off and women takes a nosedive. And so realistically, this whole narrative that somehow women have been fed that the ultimate goal for us is to get married and that men, we're kind of almost trapping men into, you know, marrying us. And aren't they giving us such a wonderful gift by agreeing to get married and making a commitment when actually the reverse is true, that it's wonderful for them and terrible for us. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Which I find just so problematic. And then

the fact that weddings are sold as this like beautiful day where we get given lots of flowers and wear a beautiful dress and that's the pinnacle of everything. And then from there, our lives just bottom out, which is obviously not true because there's wonderful things about being married and the gift of kids and, you know, it's complex, all this stuff. But it is worth noting that in order for a marriage, I think, to really work in a way that's a partnership, you need to be clear about what your expectations are. And for some people, some dads are really happy to be more present with their kids and do more of the stay-at-home stuff and some women really love that idea that they want to get married and be able to like look after the home

and look after their kids and they see themselves in that role and really value that. But not everyone is the same and I think for some women it can end up as a trap. Absolutely. You know, and they end up in a position, even what I've noticed with friends of mine or just women that I know, they might have, they start off on an equal footing with their partner or often they've worked harder, have more degrees and are more skilled in their

career. Then they get married and everything stays fine and equal and the same. And then they have babies and all of a sudden they end up in this position where they're in this murky landscape of them compromising on their career, working part-time, trying to make it work, having a baby. And then because they're at home, they just start to do more of the domestic labor because it makes sense because their partner's working full-time and they're at home. And then the book I talked about last week, Night Bitch by Rachel Yoder, she addressed this in one of the panels, that it's not a deliberate choice. And in her book, the lead character tries to make her career in the arts work,

that because of the, she tries as best she can, she's pumping at work and giving her baby to childcare workers five days a week. And she ends up miserable. Her son ends up miserable. It's just not working. And women can sometimes end up in these scenarios where they've compromised on everything and eventually are so tired and worn down that they end up in a position where they've lost their identity, they're no longer working in their careers and they're kind of stuck. Yeah.

And their husband's lives tend to seemingly just take off and are pretty great and their bodies haven't changed at all. And so it's, and I don't have the answers for it, except actually I do. Oh, here we go. The answer is that culturally we should be sharing the load equally, domestically and also child-rearing. It's not about like punishing men or whatever because a lot of people at times like they have like feminism and it's

like well you hate men and that's not that's not what it is that's again somebody's telling you a thing that it is yeah it's actually better for men i agree to also be able to be present dads and be able to have an equal partnership because you end up with a happier partner and happier kids and you get to take your foot off the accelerator a bit too which allows you to have a more balanced life. So it's about rather than seeing, you know, working as like the only way of being a provider and being in a role, the idea of making your marriage a really true partnership where you both are caring for the kids and you're both pursuing careers that fulfil you rather

than ending up with one partner who is bitter and resentful and one whose life seemingly hasn't changed. Yeah, but I do, yeah, but that's what I mean. And obviously it's a constant negotiation and a swing. Yeah, and some people have like you have windows where you do things. Like when we had kids, like that's when all the podcast stuff was kind of taking off and you did like take a backseat, like your career with kids and whatever. And now it's like, it's, it's switched a bit where back the other way where you're doing music and things and more

podcasting and well, not so much that at the moment and touring and whatever. And yeah. And I, I think that's hard for me actually. It is hard. No, I mean it is but it's great. Like, you know, it's good. I really appreciate you. Well, that's all I wanted to hear. But I think also like I know and it's probably not anybody

who's listening here or maybe it is. I don't know. But often when you see guys complain about like, you know, in the 50s or whatever, you could just get a woman or whatever, you got a good job and then you could find someone and you could be whatever kind of person you want to be and, you know, they have to kind of marry you because they need someone who can open a bank account

and a credit card and buy a house and all these different things. Whereas now that's not enough and it shouldn't be enough. Like that shouldn't be the only thing that you're bringing to a relationship. Like obviously financial stability is, is, is important, but if that's the only thing that you're bringing, like that's not, that's not enough. You have to like improve yourself and, you know, and be empathetic and be able to compromise and all of these things. Yeah. And, and may I also say that overall I think that leads to happier, more meaningful relationships,

which we know the strength and quality of your relationships will often determine your contentedness in life over most other things. I mean, obviously having your basic needs met first and having enough money to be able to support your family and provide is obviously really important. And that's a luxury in itself. It is, but the quality of your life and how satisfied you are, how much you enjoy your days is so much dependent on the quality of your relationships. And so if you're seeing your relationship more as a commodity or not seeing your partner as a full

person, and that is what I find quite interesting. I hadn't realized this, that some men kind of don't see women, either their own mothers or their partners, as full humans. They see them as women, in inverted commas, you know, who maybe, like I spoke to- Or they say females. They say, oh God, I hate like I spoke to. Or they say females. I've done like the worst females. Gross. It's so gross because also there's so much richness in seeing your partner as your friend and also seeing like other women

in your life like your mother or your grandmother as a full person. I had this conversation with a listener of the show who lost his mother and he said he listened to my album and had suddenly reflected that his mother had this whole life outside of becoming a mother and that she was a full person and started to kind of understand more about her. And I just, that blows me away because to me that's like incredibly obvious. Yeah. But also moving too and, you know, trying to see that that's one of the problems systemic in our culture I think that sometimes

we don't see particular sets of society, whether that's women, whether that's people of colour, whether it's refugees, whether it's, you know, people with disabilities as fully human, we see them as a label. Yeah. And it's sort of weird that this like only white men get to be fully human and complex and, you know, interesting, which is just not the case.

Yep. So I don't know how we got to this point. All I'm saying is, you know. I was having a conversation with a guy we know when I went recently away on a golfing weekend where I didn't golf, I just went for the other stuff because fuck golf, it's boring. But if you love it, great. I'm not interested.

I'd rather die. But anyway, guys, it's not all guys, but oftentimes they complain about like, and you see this on like fucking male podcasts all the time where it's like, and then they're divorced and they get half the money and whatever. But it's like, yeah, but the guy they're taking half the money from, they should get that because they sacrifice often, not always, there are obviously exceptions, where they sacrifice their super as in their 401K, depending where you're from,

and like years of financial stability, and you've talked about how before the majority of the homeless are older women. Women in their 60s, yeah. And we know people like that also in their life who either went through a divorce or maybe the partner died. And may I say also worked their whole lives but worked in unpaid labour often. Yes, exactly.

Because domestic labour and childcare are incredibly, I would go to say one of the hardest jobs to do and yet is unpaid and undervalued. And if that was a relationship where it was flipped, then, yeah, then that person should also get half. Yeah, exactly. That's the way it should. So I think I'd maybe talk somebody around for a second.

I don't even know. Oh, really? Maybe. I don't know. Who cares? I love that. But it's just like that idea that like that's not fair. That is fair.

That is fair. Yeah, also who's – where are their kids? And they always give examples of like look look at Jeff Bezos' wife, got like, I don't know, $40 billion or whatever. That's such a, first of all, who gives a shit? He's got enough money. Fuck him. Doesn't matter.

And she's probably awful. I don't really know anything about her. But that's like, that's such a specific example. Do you think that's what's happening? Do you think most people are getting $40 billion? Like that's obviously an outlying case. And may I also say what happens too, where are those kids going often? So if a couple divorces and oftentimes the father moves out,

the primary carer is the mother more often than not. And he gets every second weekend or whatever. Correct, exactly. So of course she deserves, I would say, even at least half of what they're earning, if not more, because she's also then from a million different perspectives needing that income. Yeah, and he was also talking about this guy who was a friend of his who like is paying child support and he's like, and, you know,

but I'm like until when? He's like for her whole life. I'm like, no. Why would she get child support when the kids have like grown up? Like what are you talking about? Like that's not true, you know. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Yeah.

It is really fascinating to me because I exist in these sort of circles where I'm always talking about women's equality and gender. I forget that there are guys just hanging out in our regular lives who have really vastly different opinions. Scumbags is what you're saying. No, but just they've come from a particular lens. Yeah, absolutely. I don't think it's like a, I don't know, moral failing or anything.

I think it's just there's too many bro podcasts about finance and fucking woke comedy or whatever the fuck. Oh, God, I know. Anyway, we are really, we digress. This is too long. I know. I think I might have to save my next recommendation. Mine too.

But you know what I'm not going to save? What? I'm not going to save that you can review this show in app, even after all of that. Wowza. Even if you're probably like, I'm never listening to this again. Before you go, a review would be great, five stars in particular. I'm not reading anything less, Claire.

Not that we get many. They're mostly five stars. But anyway, this one is from Andrew or something who says, five stars, I'm doing this in app, he's written, which is true. You can do it in any app, whatever you're listening to. Five out of five, great podcast, all about how both hosts equally hate horses because of how dumb they are. You should be scared of them.

They have bricks for feet. That's true. That's so true. Have you got a letter this week, Claire? I certainly do. All right. So if you have a recommendation and you would like to write into the show, I would love you to. You can do so at suggestible at gmail.com. So I'm just bringing it up now. Okay. I actually can't remember if I did this recommendation last week. I don't think I did. Okay. So this letter is from Taylor Edgar.

Hi, Claire and James. First of all, Claire, wonderful work on the album. It's fantastic and congratulations. If I had to pick a favourite track, I would say Pints, but they're all great. Oh, this is new. Yeah, my suggestion is for James specifically, but could be fun for the whole family.

Blank, so B-L-A-N-C, is a two-player cooperative game that was recently released on the Nintendo Switch. You play as a wolf pup and a deer fawn who help each other find their families after a snowstorm. The art style is gorgeous and looks straight out of a children's book. I love this game because I can play it with my daughter and wanted to recommend it to James because I know how hard it is to find a game you can play with you and the kids.

The controls are simple. Think Untitled Goose Game. This looks great. And the puzzles are perfectly designed and intuitive, even for little people. Also, it could be fun for the rest of the family to watch due to the great story, quick playtime, and aforementioned unique and beautiful art style. Hope you enjoy it. Love the pod.

Taylor from Virginia. Yeah, wow, That sounds awesome. That actually sounds like something I would like to play. And my son's always wanted me to play PlayStation with him. And I really struggled to do that. You mean Nintendo Switch, Claire? Whatever it is. The game on the computer technology. Look at this delightful little fairy tale adventure world. Oh, it's beautiful. See, games can be art. Roger Ebert over here reckoned games aren't art. Even Spielberg likes video games, Claire. All right.

Well, they're all men, aren't they? All right. So unbelievable. I like to go out in nature, Jamie, and lean against a tree. To get this poison out of me that you've infected me with. Oh, Lord. All right. I'm going to go to his woke new anti-woke comedy club.

I'm going to go have some lunch and I will say thank you as always to Royal Collings for editing this week's episode. I'm Claire Tonti. James Clem is there also. How does he do it? I don't know how he does it. I don't know. Oh, I also have to say I am doing a show at the Wesleyan on the 7th of May.

Oh, my God. It's the weekend of Mother's Day. It's an afternoon show at 3 p.m. And you can get tickets in the show notes. There's a link there or over on my Instagram. So if you would like to come, if you've got a partner and you want to talk about just coming out over on the weekend of Mother's Day, if you've got a mother's group that you might like to bring or you want to bring your own mum, some of my friends bringing their mums. So it's going to be a beautiful celebration. I'm not going to do all the songs

on the record. I'm going to do some covers as well. So if you have any suggestions for covers that you might like me to do as well, I would love to hear that. So that's 3 p.m. at the Wesleyan in Northcote on the 7th of May. So that's a Sunday afternoon. And the music player is called the Agpatek 2.4. A-G-P-T-E-K. You can get them on Amazon or a better place. Wonderful.

But they're about $60 Australian. Cool beans. And the base model I think is like 32 gigabytes, so it's like infinite songs and audiobooks forever if you are interested. Lovely. All right, thank you so much. Wonderful show. Talk to you soon.

Bye. We've done it. We've done it. It's a long one this week. I hated it. I know. We've ranted about many things. Don't take my stuff, Claire.

I was still capping. Don't take half my stuff. But that's the whole point of it. No,anted about many things. Don't take my stuff, Blair. I was still capping. Don't take half my stuff. But that's the whole point of it. No, don't do it. Okay, bye. We can wait for clean water solutions. Or we can engineer access to clean water. We can acknowledge Indigenous cultures.

Or we can learn from Indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can learn from indigenous voices. We can demand more from the earth. Or we can demand more from ourselves. At York University, we work together to create positive change for a better tomorrow. Join us at yorku.ca slash write the future.