Sword and Scale - Episode 241

Episode Date: May 29, 2023

20-year-old Amanda Plasse was a bright and bubbly modern-day hippy that lived alone in Chicopee, Massachusetts. Sadly, her life was cut short in late August 2011. Amanda was found dead on the floor of her kitchen. She had been brutally stabbed to death. The murder of Amanda Plasse remained unsolved for over two years, and the investigation led detectives to suspect a new boyfriend, an angry ex-boyfriend, and a jealous ex-girlfriend. It wasn’t until a hidden clue inside Amanda’s apartment led the police to a killer that no one ever suspected.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences Listener discretion is advised Did you do anything to hurt? Nah, I wouldn't have fucking killed anybody It's like fucking like girlfriend just got murdered and you're fucking blaming me before it dude. What the fuck? Hello and welcome. This is Season 10, episode 241 of Sword and Scale. A show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. Well, we hope you've been enjoying our new show Sword and Scale Nightmares.

That show will be coming to our plus platform sometime soon. We hope pretty soon. But there's a lot of, you know, stuff we gotta do in the background to make that happen. It doesn't just happen. It's a platform we built from scratch. So everybody just calm down please. In the meantime you can sign up for plus. It's at Sword and Scale.com slash plus and for just a small amount per month you get to

support your favorite show and get all kinds of exclusive content. You won't find on the ad supported free feed. Head on over to sword and scale.com slash plus to find out more We'll see you there. And let's get started shall we? I'm not a bad guy. There's a common phrase among homicide detectives that goes a little something like this. It's always the husband. While this phrase is usually said in jest, Its broader meaning is that when a woman is found to be murdered, the culprit is almost certainly her current or former intimate partner. The main reason this phrase exists

is because statistically women are much more likely to be killed by their partner or their ex than by anyone else. According to FBI data, about 63% of adult female homicides are committed by current husbands and boyfriends, or X husbands and X boyfriends. While that is the majority, it means that 37% of all other female homicides are committed by someone else. And unfortunately, that's a pretty big number, especially when you consider that more than

3,000 women are murdered in the United States every year. It also means that the phrase, it's always the husband, is wildly inaccurate. Still, when a female murder case is investigated, the husband, boyfriend, or ex often becomes the center point of the investigation. They become the main suspect, and any kind of circumstantial evidence can make them seem more guilty than the day is long. Statistically speaking, they are probably guilty. But there are many, many murder cases where the current RX partner is simply not to blame. About 100 miles west of Boston sits the historic city of Chikapi, Massachusetts.

Perhaps best known for being home to the largest air force base in the United States, Chikapi, Massachusetts. Perhaps best known for being home to the largest Air Force base in the United States, Chikapi is also the second largest city in Western Massachusetts with a population of over 55,000 people. This sprawling city is no stranger to crime or murder. In March of 2013, a young chickpea man made a bizarre phone call to 911. After explaining a very strange plight to the operator, the young man was ultimately transferred to a homicide detective.

On the police line, recorded, What I get in trouble for turning over a friend. What do you want to turn a friend over for? They call me and I don't know if I should take it too. What's the crime that was committed? They said they killed somebody a couple of years ago. According to the caller, he had recently received a shocking email from a friend. In that email, his friend confessed to murdering a young woman in 2011. You just got the email today? Yes, and it scared the hell out of me.

He was having a thing for a week prior. And then once you turn them down because he's trying to get into that with her, he's gotten mad and stabbed had stabbed her and then got scared and ran. Did he say where he stabbed her? No, he wanted to say where he just said he stabbed her or it all over again. You know, I did the same multiple times. And the girl, what did you say her name was? Her name is Amanda.

I couldn't pronounce the last name. It's...last. Back in August of 2011, about two years before this 911 call was placed, 20-year-old Amanda Plass was living by herself in a small apartment in Chikapie. At some point, during the latter half of August, Amanda invited her friend Cairo to her apartment. like me too and then I think we did the number thing because I don't I don't even think I heard number because her and I didn't really not ever lost touch but I guess you could say we weren't ever close friends like I didn't have her number before this day. Cairo's meet up with Amanda that day was an impromptu late morning get together and according to Cairo when she arrived at Amanda's apartment she didn't notice anything that

caught her attention or anything that seemed unusual. I saw him in the outside. I Didn't see anything suspicious or that I would have noticed to be out of the ordinary. Some of that she had told me of the back was someone was maybe calling at her. Well, she was outside whether it was just someone being an app, hey, mommy, or whatever. Aside from an annoying cat call,

Cairo explained that Amanda didn't mention any specific problems that she had that morning. And after Cairo arrived, the two young ladies went inside Amanda's apartment, where they smoked some weed. After lighting up, Amanda and Cairo quickly started to bond. And Amanda began talking about her new boyfriend, Seth. So, her and Seth were very open about their relationship and she was like, oh yeah, what was it?

Smoked, sexed and showered because she was talking about their little warning together. And no, yeah, sex and showered. So I had no idea that she had already showered with him. Among the boyfriend chit chat, Kyro and Amanda also talked about life in general. Topics like family, work, and personal interests all came up. The conversations that you had with her up there about your lives. interests all came up. Please, shit, you're crushing. Like, here I am still living back in my folks house, you know, and I'm working on my grind, and I was like, dude, that's awesome, like you're on your own. And you're just doing really awesome for yourself.

She seemed really happy, living on her own. It was like her second apartment or something. Like, she'd seem like she'd been on her own for a while. We were just really trying to like connect. I was excited that maybe I was making, I guess, a new friendship for the future. Amanda Lynn Plass was born in December of 1990 in Chikapi, and was well known for her bright and bubbly personality, her big green eyes, and her natural brunette curls.

As a young woman, Amanda was self-sufficient and seemingly on top of all the things that are required to make an independent life possible. She had her own place, her bills were paid, and she was able to make ends meet by working full-time as a waitress at a nearby friendlies restaurant. In addition to being a responsible young adult, Amanda was also artistic, and she had a passion for drawing, painting, and playing guitar. She also really enjoyed going to music festivals

with her friends. So after the stage we hugged her, I was like, oh, we got a lot in common. You go to music festivals, you usually go, oh, please, you love art, you love music. And I was like, we we started talking about life and Seth and what she was doing and what she'd been doing the past summer and music festivals and life's crazy.

That was basically what we talked about and then we kind of tied her up her family life a little bit. So, I think told me her brothers and the military super proud of him, older sister, kind of lost touch because the sister had a baby. So, it was crazy and the little segue of time that we had together, I really felt like I got a window into her life. Amanda Plass was vibrant, attractive, charmingly quirky, and extremely personable. She was a free spirit, a modern day hippie, perhaps born in the wrong era. spirit, a modern day hippie, perhaps born in the wrong era. Amanda was also determined to live her life in her own way and was actively doing all the

responsible things needed to make the lifestyle that she wanted a reality. During her visit to Amanda's apartment, Kyro was a bit surprised by how open Amanda was with her. But Tyro was also impressed by it, and she welcomed their overt and intimate conversation. At some point during the visit, Amanda got a bizarre and frankly pretty haunting phone call. But Amanda handled it in typical Amanda fashion. She received a phone call, didn't know what was, didn't know the number. Hello, just probably old Amanda, how's it going? I can hear you breathing, you're not saying anything, just like being a goofball, literally

just giving whoever it was just to make them feel like a weirdo, I guess. And she's like, well what are you doing? And then like hung up at the phone, and then she kind of talked to me a little bit about, yeah, I kind of sometimes get these weird calls from my stalker. Apparently Amanda had a stalker who would frequently call her, but never said a word and only briefed heavily and Amanda up before abruptly hanging up.

I used to think that kind of thing was an 80s TV trope that didn't really happen, but I guess I was wrong. It was pretty creepy stuff, but every time it happened Amanda shrugged it off and went about her merry way. Perhaps even more frightening, Amanda had recently returned from a two-day music festival. And when she arrived back home, she found that her apartment had been broken into and burglarized.

Did she express any problems at her apartment? There had been a previous break in. I really can't recall that, but I know for a fact that the apartment had been broken into before. And they did take weed. One of the most notable things about this break-in was that not much was taken. Aside from a few mostly cheap items, the burglar only stole Amanda's secret stash of marijuana, and they seemed to know exactly where to find it. This suggested that the thief had likely been inside Amanda's apartment before, and that they weren't some random person off the street.

They were probably someone that Amanda knew, and probably someone that Amanda considered to be a friend. In any case, after Amanda told Cairo about her new boyfriend, her family, her stalker, and the recent break-in, Cairo left, leaving Amanda plenty of time to get ready for work. When I left, she was getting ready for work. She didn't tell me she had plans in between, but there was enough time for her to do whatever. There was definitely someone to pick her up, to her to go somewhere. It was early enough that she could have done something before work. So what do you mean by getting ready for work? What exactly was she doing?

Nothing. Just the letting me know that she had to start getting ready for work. I think the mental preparedness that you give yourself. Although Amanda had her own place, she didn't have a car and would usually depend on her friends to drive her to work. For the past four or five days, Amanda's boyfriend, Seth, had been giving her the rides that she needed. I guess I've known it for like, I don't want to, for the first time. Right. Seth and Amanda went to high school together, but they didn't really start dating or really didn't know much about each other until well after graduation. In fact, when Seth was questioned by the police, he had only been dating Amanda for about

a week. She slept in Amanda's last night. Do you sleep the whole night a man this last night? Yes. Do you sleep the whole night at our house last night? Yeah, she gets out of work at 11, 12 o'clock at night. Any problems last night at all? No. You fucking was so happy. So you guys just talked last night?

What do you mean? Did you guys stay up for a while? Or did you go right there and like the right to bed? I had to go and sex. Um, it's a food at the bed. According to Seth on August 25th, 2011, he slept at Amanda's apartment just as he had done the last few nights. The next morning Seth and Amanda woke up, had sex, and took a shower together.

Then Seth headed off to work. What did you work at today? I'm going to feel the park sense. What did you do there? You were a thing? You were a thing? Yeah. What time did you work today?

Probably left her house at like 8.30. It's morning. The typical routine for Seth and Amanda are at least the brief routine that they seem to have established in the last week or so was that Seth would go to work in the morning and when he was finished with a shift, he would return to Amanda's apartment to take her to work. Then after Amanda finished her work shift, Seth would pick her up and they would go back to Amanda's apartment.

On this particular day, however, Seth called Amanda to let her know that he would not be able to get her to work, I can go there and bring her to work. Hang on, we can pick her up. We're going to sleep together. How did it come to talk to her at four o'clock? What? How did it come that you talked to her at four o'clock? I called her and told her I had to be working late. Seth had to work late, which meant that Amanda would need to find a ride to the friendlies

restaurant with someone else. According to Seth, Amanda told him that she was able to find someone who could give her a lift. And Seth promised to visit Amanda at her job after he got off. To Seth's surprise, when he arrived at Friendly's later that evening, Amanda wasn't there. So you went to Amanda's work at Friendlyilly? Did you expect to see her there? Yeah, that's why I just went in and I sat down and I texted her as I come out to Frontesque and I didn't see her any kind of response and I asked one of her friends that I would go there and pick her up and one of the kids that works with her, I talked to him and I was like,

you were the man that you should know her in half late. So the kids say she's the R&B fleet. What'd you do? I left. But through 411 you called her. You called her a text message. I walked right back to my car. I text her and said, where are you?

And then I tried calling her a couple of times. She didn't answer. Again, Amanda was an especially responsible young woman. For her to not show up to work, was pretty out of character. Despite this, Seth claimed that he didn't immediately become concerned. Instead, he assumed that Amanda had simply fallen asleep and was missing her work shift by accident. Seth also claimed that he went to his grandma's house to pick up some fresh clothes and drove to Amanda's apartment, where he planned to wake Amanda up and take a shower. When Seth arrived at Amanda's apartment, he supposedly knocked a few times and didn't

get a response. He then noticed that Amanda's front window was broken, so Seth decided to enter her apartment. According to Seth, Amanda's front door was locked, but the lock itself was pretty flimsy. And anyone with even a small incentive to break in could easily bypass it by sliding something into the door frame, which is exactly what Seth claimed that he did. You walk into that little entryway. What do you see when you first walk in there? As soon as I walk through the catwalk, though.

The cat walked outside. And then there's that doorway to the kitchen. So you walk into the kitchen. What do you see when you walk into the kitchen? Nice, I read. What do you mean you saw it read? Saw it like, read all over the floor. I saw her foot.

So you went in the kitchen and so as you came in, you saw red all over the floor. Is that blood you saw? I don't know what that was. I was like, probably. Did you walk into the kitchen when you saw the blood on the floor? Yeah. You're about to do it. Okay, she was breathing. This is the blood on the floor. Yeah. It's running your back, Stuart. OK, this is you, she was breathing.

You're killing her, didn't you? So she was laying there on the ground? I think so. I think it's broke, this is a place. Seth told the police that when he walked into Amanda's kitchen, he learned why Amanda had not shown up to work. According to him, he found Amanda on the floor, lying in a pool of her own blood. Her throat was slit, and she was completely unresponsive. that you've tricked us you how she was treated how did you do that? I said to you guys stay with us. I'm gonna give her another chance, I don't know just see if it was moving.

I tried plugging her in my mouth and it's kind of like blew it through it. How long did you stay next to her? I called her. I called her immediately. Excuse me. Alright. I can tell you. through his sobbing, Seth explained that he tried to render first aid to Amanda and performed CPR, but when Seth blew into her mouth, his breaths came back at him through the open slit on her throat. There was nothing that Seth or anyone could do for Amanda.

She had been brutally stabbed to death and had likely been dead for several hours before Seth found her. After finding Amanda's body, Seth called 911. When the police arrived, they found Seth on Amanda's front porch. He was sobbing and lying in a fetal position. They then found Amanda's butchered body on the kitchen floor of her apartment. What followed was an intense and often frustrating murder investigation that led homicide detectives to follow several leads, some of which involved a new boyfriend, an angry ex-boyfriend, and even a jealous ex-girlfriend. In the end, the brutal slaying of Amanda Plass would go unresolved for two years, but eventually, a hidden clue inside Amanda's apartment would lead detectives to a culprit that no one

ever suspected. On the night of August 26th, 2011, 20-year-old Amanda Plass was found stabbed to death on the kitchen floor of her apartment. Amanda lived by herself in Chikapi, Massachusetts, and supposedly her body had been discovered by her new boyfriend Seth. After Seth, Fros went to her job at a local friendlies restaurant and couldn't find her. Amanda's immediate family members included her mom, her dad, her older sister, and a younger brother. As to be expected, when news of Amanda's murder reached her family, Amanda's mom took it especially hard. Soon after Amanda's death, her family organized a large

vigil and funeral in her honor. Meanwhile, the Chikapi Police Department continued investigating the crime, and the first person they focused on, of course, was Amanda's boyfriend, 20-year-old Seth Green. No, not that one. When detectives processed the crime scene, they found several things of note. First, when Amanda was found she was wearing a bra, her work pants, and socks. She was clearly in the process of getting ready for work when the murder happened.

And next to Amanda's body was a bloody shoe print that must have been left by the killer, because Amanda wasn't wearing shoes. Based on their analysis of the shoe print, the police determined that the killer was either a woman that wore a size 9 or a man that wore size 7. Also, the police found that one of Amanda's front windows had been broken, but they later determined that this was not how the killer gained entry into the home, because the window had been broken from the inside. More than likely, the killer came in through the front door by picking its flimsy lock, the back door which was found unlocked, or Amanda had simply invited them in. Finally, and certainly, most glaringly, this murder was extremely

brutal. A large dent was found on Amanda's refrigerator, which almost certainly happened during the struggle. Amanda fought for her life, but she was overpowered, and the dent on the fridge was made by Amanda's head when she was thrown into it. Also, Amanda was found lying in a pool of her own blood and had basically been butchered to death with a very sharp knife. She had 15 knife wounds on her body, seven of which could have been fatal, and one of which was a long, deep slit across her throat.

Based on this, and based on the fact that nothing appeared to be stolen, the police theorized that The police theorized that this was not some random home invasion or burglary. Someone was very angry. Someone handed out for Amanda, and more than likely it was someone that Amanda knew. Is there anything that you could think of that you didn't tell us that happened today? Any problems with you in a man at all? No, no, no, you're fucking amazing. Like fucking monster. So like in that, we could all know it's already fine. And that's like, that's like, you've had such a good time

together. According to Seth, his and a man's relationship was at an early stage where everything was all sunshine and butterflies. They had just started to get to know each other and were quickly falling in love. Throughout this interview with Seth, the detectives frequently stepped out of the interrogation room, leaving Seth alone, and every time they did, Seth sobbed uncontrollably. Seth was clearly emotional, but the detectives weren't convinced that his tears were genuine. Given that he had only known Amanda for a week, his tearful sob seemed over the top and manufactured. Either that or Seth wasn't crying for Amanda.

Maybe he was just crying for himself. Something else that bothered detectives was Seth's actions after he had discovered Amanda's body. Seth claimed that he tried to perform CPR on Amanda, and when that didn't work, he called 911. So far, so good. But then, as he was on the phone with the 911 operator, Seth took the time to hide some marijuana pipes

that were lying around the apartment. How many pipes? There's like prize for on the table. Hey, let me ask you a question. You know, if my wife, girlfriend, wherever, was in there, in Thrill's Sly, one of the last things I'm gonna worry about is cleaning it up. Why did you take the time to do that?

I was just freaking out, but the woman bought me to do it, you know? I don't know, I don't know what to fuck to do. But you take the time to pick up four little balls, I mean nothing. When you know that your girl that you love is dead. I guess, yeah. Seth's explanation for hiding weed paraphernalia amidst a brutal homicide was that he was just accustomed to hiding that kind of stuff anytime there was a chance that cops might show up. He claimed

he was operating on pure instinct, which I guess kind of makes sense. Even so, it is a strange thing to do when the woman you supposedly love is lying in a pool of her own blood just a few feet away. Something else that caught the attention of detectives was the blood they noticed on Seth's pants, along with what appeared to be a deep cut on his right hand. Who told you yet? Right here. No, that's not. That's another couple days now. Don't go get it. He's got dirt in it from your roof and tubes. Yeah, I'm just cutting myself. He's stabbing her or something.

Hmm? It's not like I just cut myself stabbing her or something. I don't know if that's what you're referring to. It's just that. That's what I know. It's your job. Seth claimed that he got blood on his pants when he knelt next to Amanda's body, and that the cut on his hand was work-related. Again, this all made sense and was pretty probable.

But then came the inevitable line of questioning about where Seth was when Amanda was killed. And Seth's alibi was more than just a little suspect. They stay on the whole other job all day. Yeah, I was doing that last time to go get materials a couple of times. What time did you leave to get materials? There was a few times, and that's like three times. You drive in a van, no one else would you? No. Okay, you go to the, you pick up the stuff, you go back to the job?

Yes, do you stop anywhere? You have to get in the road, right? Yeah, I went back to the job, didn't stop the numbers. According to Seth, he was working the entire day, but as a rougher, some of his responsibilities included driving his work van to various places to pick up supplies. Seth admitted that he had made some of these supply runs by himself, which meant no one could vouch for his exact whereabouts throughout the day.

Even worse, some of his travel put him within walking distance of Amanda's apartment. You're pretty close to home at that point, were you? Yeah, it's right next to your house. A little when it comes to you too, when I? Yeah, it's right next to your house. The little one that comes here too, when I go and get materials, I stop at your house. So that's something, how many of you do when you go out of your materials? You just stop at the house really quick to share.

How long does that happen a couple of times? So between Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and all four days, when you're making deliveries, two of those days you stop by the place, right? Why, why don't you go back today? Because I, you're finishing up the job and they rush me and I've, they've been getting pissed at me because I've been coming in late and I take forever when I go places, they bitch at me for that. Seth told detectives that during his supply runs,

he would sometimes stop at Amanda's apartment to say hi. But on the day of the murder, he coincidentally decided against it. Mainly because his boss had recently given him shit for taking too long. Once again, Seth had an explanation that made sense and afforded him plausible deniability. At some point today, when you were making those deliveries, you took your car. No. Your car was at an apartment. Is it? Yeah.

No. It wasn't? No. You sure? Positive. You didn't take your car at all. No, my car stayed at the job site. My car was not at that apartment.

It was there at night this morning. I mean, the car was not at that apartment. It was there at nine this morning, before I left, yeah. Someone thought they saw you car at the apartment. Okay, well, it wasn't. You didn't go there at all. I did not go there at all, Ty. Did you do anything that hurt? No, I would never fucking kill anybody. You just like fucking, like,

girlfriend just got murdered and you're fucking blaming me for it, dude. Holding here. What the fuck? Even after detectives pressed him, Seth maintained that he never went to Amanda's apartment during his work shift. And as his interview came to an end, the cops did what they usually do in this kind of situation. They asked Seth what he thought had happened. We think happened to her. I don't know. She's so fucking happy.

Like, not a man who you're actually from, is mad that she's talking to me. She said her ex boyfriend was abusive. And she said, so fucking happy girl, I don't see your having problems. I don't know, I don't think I can think of his or my problems. Before Amanda started dating Seth, she was seeing one of her co-workers, 21-year-old Jesse Columbay. Jesse worked with Amanda at friendlies, and even though they had hooked up, they never declared themselves to be boyfriend

and girlfriend. They had a short flinging and Amanda didn't seem very interested in pursuing things beyond that. Jesse, however, clearly wanted something more. You told us that you guys have relationship. Yes. And it wasn't serious, so it's fake, so it broke off. Yeah. But we also found out that you have been sending a lot of text messages this past weekend. Great. Yeah, I

Texted her she texted me on Thursday. So I've seen her this past Thursday. Yeah, though the day I seen her at work Okay, yeah, so on and we didn't tell us about that so on She said that's that was the last time I parked her On Thursday? Yeah. Did they before you died, right? Yeah. During Jesse's police interview, there are a few moments where he suspiciously seems to pass the buck. In contrast to Seth's police interview, Jesse didn't need to be prompted or asked

what he thought happened to Amanda. Instead, he went out of his way to offer up a few theories. And I don't know if I told you about that. I tell you guys about that name, that kid wrote on that thing. I can try a race board in her apartment. She thought her apartment got broken into, and they stole petty stuff. Like, just had an ass-trained stuff.

She thought it was some kid that she would met about me. You know, I've got some little Puerto Rican kid. She's got an ass train stuff. She thought it was some kids that she would met and bought me a gift. I was like, a little porter, you can get it. He's got to live like somewhere within like two second walk. Who's that? I don't know his name. His name was written down. That's all I know.

I can't think of it. I think it begins with a D. The D name that Jesse mentioned was in reference to something that was written on a dry erase board in Amanda's apartment. Scrawled in haphazard writing next to some of Amanda's dudeling, was a sentence, it read, The date next to Dennis' name was only two weeks before Amanda was killed.

Eventually, police learned that this Dennis person was Amanda's pot dealer. I was like, you know what? Can you ask someone? I was like, you know what? I can't. I can't go all along. Did I have to, like, no, no, or before she was killed? So, like, no, we were two. You met her at one time. Oh, my family's all the way.

Yeah. You know, it was meant to wear out a apartment. Uh, like upstairs, and that's not it. It's been so many days. We just won't go out on the porch. Dennis admitted that he supplied Amanda with weed, and that he had been to her apartment once. Dennis explained that when he went there, he brought along his girlfriend. They met up with Amanda and smoked weed on her back porch. According to Dennis, his girlfriend wasn't exactly thrilled that Dennis had made a new female friend.

And not long after she was introduced to Amanda, she ended their relationship. Then Dennis and his then-girlfriend Crystal lived together in a small house, just two blocks from Amanda's apartment, and their relationship wasn't anything to write home about. They were known to argue a lot, and they had serious, trust issues. And after Crystal and Amanda, things turned violent. Crystal attacked Dennis with a baseball bat on her for that? Yeah. Did they come and do that? They filed charges on her and that's about it. They also filed a battery charges with belly weapons. She had me with a bow on my head. Given that Crystal had a perclivity

to solve her problems with violence and that one of her violent methods of choice was stabbing, the police wondered if Amanda's murder wasn't the result of some angry boyfriend or ex-boyfriend Maybe Amanda was killed by someone else's jealous girlfriend Maybe just maybe the killer was a woman But did you have a problem with him born by Amanda's hospital? I didn't even know where she lived or who she was. You met Amanda, who did it? Yes, that one time it went to her backwards and that's the only time I seen her after.

Despite her recent breakup with Dennis, Crystal claimed that she didn't have any problems with Amanda, and that she had never gone back to Amanda's apartment after first meeting her. For police, the list of potential suspects was getting longer, and while they left all options open, the detectives refocused their attention on Amanda's coworker, and ex-fling, Jesse, Columbia. According to Jesse, the last time he saw and spoke with Amanda was the day before she died. You actually talked with it that day?

You would guys work together that Thursday? Yeah, I talked to her for like a minute. She worked with me for the first time. What do you guys talk about? Not really. She was just kind of making fun of the way I made my eyes. Here's the thing I'm curious about because that's not what we heard. We heard that Seth one in there gave her a kiss.

I mean, you want to come up with that? Seth was in there for like a, a while. Seth was in there for like a good 40 minutes. Okay. So let me go on that topic though. You did see Seth come in there. There was a right? Yes.

And he did kiss. I thought he was out. He did kiss a man in there front of you and made me walk out of the ball. I've seen that. I never said that. No, no, you didn't say it. I never seen. I never seen them physically, kids. I've seen them talking.

It didn't bother me. I was talking to Seth. Did you know that her and Seth were together? Yeah. Just he claimed that Amanda's new relationship with Seth didn't bother him. But the text messages that he sent to Amanda suggested otherwise. That's if she wanted the bracelet back instead of could have gave it to her because I was wearing it and she said keep it silly to give.

So it was almost like you guys are breaking up. Yeah, we were like done talking. Was there any anger in the text? Not in that text, I'm blue saw. But there was some anger in some other text, why didn't they? Yeah. The weekend before Amanda decided to call it quits with Jessie, she had gone to a music festival with a few friends.

And it was at this festival that she and Seth hooked up for the first time. During and after the festival, Amanda didn't respond to many of Jessie's text messages. Needless to say, Jessie wasn't thrilled that Amanda was suddenly giving him the cold shoulder. Like, we were talking and she just didn't talk to me for a few days and I just wondered what was going on but she didn't tell me so. She wouldn't tell you what? I think what was going on why she really talking to me. How many texts you think you censored?

Good amount. What's a good amount? 20. 20 Unanswered Texts. 20. 20 unanswered texts. 20. Good God. Fellas a little advice. If a woman says no, it means no. If she doesn't respond to you, after a second or third text, that's probably a pretty good sign that you should just move on. third text, that's probably a pretty good sign that you should just move on. Otherwise, you start looking a little desperate and quite frankly pathetic.

And if you go anywhere beyond five or six texts, well, let's just say you look like a psychopath. This advice isn't exclusively to men, by the way. Ladies, the same holds true for you. In any case, Jesse was seemingly hell-bent on pursuing a relationship with Amanda, whether she wanted one or not. He was infatuated by her, but Amanda just wasn't interested. For police, Jesse seemed to have a motive to commit murder, and that motive was perfectly in line with their crime scene.

Remember the murder of Amanda Plass was extremely bloody and brutal. The killer wasn't just angry. They were completely enraged. Not only did Jesse have a reason to be enraged, but he also might have had't need to be delete. I need to be delete it. You had to delete message. I got all kinds of messages in my phone.

I'm just asking why you deleted messages. I told you why, because I don't need to be deleted. It's not deleted at all. I just didn't want to, first of all, I didn't want to look at any conversation on me and her, just because it made me sad to even think about her.

Why is that? Because she's murdered. I didn't even want to have to look at him. Everything reminds me of her. On top of the fact that Amanda wasn't responding to Jesse, which by itself was making Jesse pretty upset, he had to learn about Amanda's new relationship with Seth on Facebook. Now, were you upset that she wasn't responding to you or were you upset that Seth was looking up with her? I was upset that she wasn't responding to me.

Tell me time I texted her one time about Seth. And what did you say in that text? I told her I was like, you and Seth, that's cute. All right, well let me ask you this. When did you know that her and Seth became a couple? I've seen it on Facebook. When was that? All right, God, I'm so sure. Give me a guess. It's two days before I last seen her.

So that was this past week. There's three of you. You said Thursday. Oh yeah, well that was work, yeah. So yeah? Yeah. So that was like three days before she died, right? Yeah, like three four days.

Jesse learned that Amanda was dating Seth just days before Amanda was killed. And after the murder happened, Jesse stayed pretty far away from anything having to do with Amanda. How did you finally find out that she's some happened to her? From Allison she called me and told me that someone broke in and she's not with me. Did she say how? She's not with us anymore. No. Do you know now how she's not with us? I do now no specifics. So to this day, you still don't know how she died. Yeah.

It's okay. Jesse was first interviewed by police four days after Amanda was killed. And he claimed that over the course of those four days, he never took the time to find out exactly how Amanda was killed. I find that very hard to believe that you have no idea how she died when everybody's talking about it. I know on the news, so I haven't listened to anything.

I haven't even read the paper. I haven't even got a few Facebook names. I haven't even got a few Facebook names. I haven't even got a few Facebook names. I haven't even got a few Facebook names. I haven't even got a few Facebook names. I haven't even got a few Facebook names. I haven't even got a few Facebook names.

I haven't even got a few Facebook names. I haven't even got a few Facebook names. I haven't even got a few Facebook names. I haven't even got a few Facebook names. I haven't even got a few Facebook names. I haven't even got a few Facebook names. I haven't even got a few Facebook names. I haven't even got a few Facebook names. I haven't even got a few Facebook names. I haven't even got a few Facebook names. I haven't even got a few Facebook names. You were so much in love with her that you sent all those texts. You sent all those texts. Next thing you know, you don't even know how she died.

I don't know how she died. That would be a normal response wanting to know how she died. Would you hear about a girl you liked? Would you want to hear about how she was murdered? Absolutely. Not only had Jesse supposedly made no effort to seek out the details of Amanda's death, but he was also conspicuous by his absence during the large vigil that was held in Amanda's honor. But then my mom told me it wasn't a good idea. I wanted to go. Why is that? Because just the way people have been talking, you know what I mean?

She didn't want there. Like someone to be pissed off and like to start done and seeing her, you know, her weight. Just like they had done with Seth, detectives eventually transitioned into a line of questioning about Jesse's whereabouts on the day that Amanda was killed. whereabouts on the day that Amanda was killed. According to Jesse, he was home most of the day, and only left his house to pick up his paycheck from friendlies. So you took the car to the side of the front as you get your check. Correct. Then you went straight home. On the day that Amanda was killed, Jesse's parents were out of town,

which left very few people to vouch for his whereabouts. And after doing a little digging into his story, the police learned that Jesse hadn't really been entirely truthful about where he had gone that day. Jesse, we interviewed you twice already. You weren't completely truthful, was it? Right. A few days after Jesse's first interviews with detectives, Jesse returned to the interrogation

room for a third and final interview. During this interrogation, Jesse came clean and admitted that he had been lying all along. In late August and early September of 2011, 21-year-old Jesse Columbia was questioned several times by a chick-a-pie Massachusetts homicide detectives about the brutal murder of Jesse's coworker and ex-flang 20-year-old Amanda Plass. Amanda was stabbed to death in the kitchen of her apartment, and leading up to her death Jesse had demonstrated in more ways than one, and he was upset with Amanda because she clearly didn't want to pursue a relationship with him. In fact, she had even started dating someone else, and Jesse learned about this new relationship

on Facebook just days before Amanda was killed. During his first two police interviews, Jesse claimed that on the day of Amanda's murder, he was at home and only left his house once to pick up his paycheck. But during his third interview, Jesse admitted that he hadn't entirely been honest about his whereabouts that day. In his new and revised version of where he was on the day of the murder, Jesse told police that he not only went to his job to pick up his paycheck, but that he also went to a liquor store to cash that paycheck.

On its face, this seemed like a pointless and frankly, pretty stupid thing to lie about. But there was a reason that Jesse had kept this information from police. So what did you do to that? Yeah, I went back home and then took my couple of minutes later took my car. I met up with this kid, Fat Boy. What's Fat Boy's real man? Totally honest, I do not know. Why were you meeting him?

Why were you meeting him? I got a pill. Jesse claimed that when Amanda was murdered, he was busy caching his paycheck, so that he could meet up with his drug dealer to buy drugs. He also claimed that after he purchased those drugs, he went home and got high. At this point in the investigation, the police had a pretty good idea of the exact hour

that Amanda was killed. After Amanda's new boyfriend Seth called Amanda to let her know that he would be working late and wouldn't be able to drive Amanda to her job, Amanda phoned her friend Mercedes and Mercedes agreed to give her a lift. About an hour or so later, at 4pm, one of Amanda's neighbors saw Amanda outside her apartment, getting her mail. Then, at 5pm, Mercedes arrived at the apartment to drive Amanda to work, but Amanda never came outside. And after honking her horn and waiting for about 15 minutes, Mercedes simply drove away. This chain of events told the police that Amanda must have been killed between 4 and 5 pm that day.

The surveillance camera at the liquor store where Jesse cashed his paycheck, captured Jesse doing exactly what he said he did at this time. There was simply no way that Jesse could have killed Amanda, because he wasn't anywhere near her apartment when she died. Even though Jesse had a strong motive for murder, he was in the clear. This of course was good news for him, but bad news for detectives. While they still had a long list of potential suspects, all their evidence was circumstantial, and certainly not enough to levy charges against anyone. With nowhere else to turn and seemingly no one left to interview, the Amanda Plast's

murder investigation went cold, and it remained cold for two years. Over the course of those two years, some occasional tips filtered into the Chikapi Police Department, one of which was the bizarre 911 call that you heard at the start of the show. On the police line recorded. Hi, what I get in trouble is the turning over a friend. Okay, what's the crime that was committed? They said they killed somebody a couple of years ago.

And then once you turn them down because he's trying to get into that with her, he's gotten mad and stabbed her. The girl, what did you say her name was? Trying to get into the river. He's gotten mad and stabbed her. Good girl. What did you say her name was? Her name was Black Hercie. Her name is Amanda. Unfortunately, this 911 call, along with all the other tips that the police received, turned out to be bogus dead ends.

Amanda's killer had seemingly gotten away with murder. But in late 2013, the lead detective in this case sat down to review it again, and that file included crime-seeing photos. When the detective looked over the photographs, something stood out at him, and he was once again reminded of the handwritten words on Amanda's whiteboard. A single sentence was haphazardly written next to Amanda's handwritten doodles. It read, 11, 11. 22-year-old Dennis Rosa Roman was Amanda's pot dealer, and with nowhere else to turn and nothing to lose, the detective decided to track Dennis down. The detective learned that shortly after Amanda's death, Dennis relocated to a neighboring town, and police caught up with him just outside his new home.

When detectives approached Dennis and started asking questions about Amanda, Dennis appeared nervous and said that he was too busy to talk. The cops let him go, but not before giving him their contact info. A few days later, Dennis called the detective in a panic and explained that he had something very important to tell police. Yeah, she called me that day. She called me and she said, yo, give me a backpack and walk to her house, drop it off. Here's some guy arguing with her. Something about money.

You heard this coming from the maintenance department. I was just hitting a third floor at the porch. I was all my year and I'm like, okay, I'm listening to this guy. I want my money. I didn't give you this shit for no reason. After coming in for an interview, Dennis told police that he went to Amanda's apartment on the day of the murder to drop off some weed. And when he got to her door, he could hear Amanda's voice, presumably yelling at Amanda. The bad girl. This is the bad girl. The bad girl. Yeah. And I'm like, where is Amanda?

This is where she's inside. She's busy right now. He didn't let you go in. I never stepped in her house. He just said, yo, give me that. And that's it. And I went about my way. I'm not okay with whatever.

I'm just going to go home and go bother with it. According to Dennis, he was never able to meet up with Amanda that day. Instead, when he knocked on the door, an angry man confronted him. And in so many words, told Dennis to get lost. If Dennis's story was true, and that's a pretty big if, but if it was true, why was Dennis only coming forward with this information now? He knew that Amanda had been murdered, so why wait two years to give police this crucial information?

You said, when we first came, you were saying this here, because the other day, when you saw me, you saw the guy, you saw the guy too, huh? Yeah, walking on the street, and saw the guy too huh? Yeah, walking on a street and I feel like headlack. Headlack and the guy is driving next to me, like he just never rode so I was like okay. And I see the guy in the chickpea, I see him in Spreco shelter, in the West Hill, on the bus routes, and I don't know what to do guys. But I'm just terrified for my life." Dennis claimed that the man he saw at a man's apartment on the day of the murder was stalking

him. And out of fear for his life, Dennis decided to keep his mouth shut. While they never outright set it during the interview, it was pretty obvious that the detectives weren't buying Dennis' story. And they clearly suspected that Dennis was the killer. If you remember, one of the key pieces of evidence from the crime scene was a bloody shoe print that was found next to Amanda's body.

The killer was either a woman that wore a size 9 or a man that wore a size 7. So far, none of the suspects that police interviewed matched the size of that shoe print. That is, until they show you two sides. Sure enough, Dennis wore a size 7 and was a match for the bloody chuprint next to Amanda's body. A few days after Dennis was first interviewed, the police brought him in for another round of questioning, and they told Dennis that they were sure he was inside Amanda's apartment on the day of the murder. When confronted with this accusation, Dennis changed his story. You're not going to do it? You're mad at hard, yes. Yep.

Yes. And what happened then? I hear a bunch of screaming and I hear a voice. I hear a voice. I hear a voice. Yes. What did she say? Stop, stop, stop, stop.

This isn't right. Stop, stop. I heard your voice, yes. What did she say? Stop, stop, stop, stop. This isn't right. Stop, stop. So then I barged in. So you... He didn't come to the door. You actually went inside. I went inside.

I barged in. Was it door open? It was a lot. In his new version of events, Dennis explained that he barged into Amanda's apartment after hearing Amanda screaming. After he was inside, Dennis claimed that he came upon a violent struggle between Amanda and her killer. So now they're in the kitchen. What do you see when you get to the kitchen?

I see the guy on top of her. The guy was on top of her. When you say he was on top of her, what was she at? This was on the floor. Was she face up, face down? Face up. Looking at him. So now, what do you, what do you, I mean, he's on top of her. Well, I run over there and I try to separate him and she's trying to like tussle between me and him

and the guy shoves the shit out of me, she gets up and then the guy pulls up a knife on me. So he's got the knife out. Yeah. What are you doing? I'm fucking tussling with the guy and she trying to get the knife on me. So he's got the knife out. What are you doing? I'm fucking hustling with the guy, and she trying to get the knife out of his hand, and he's just like thrusting it, thrusting it,

thrusting it forward towards me. And I'm like trying to back up and shit, and I try to like grab him and up, and I couldn't grab her, and he just like tossed her, and she like knocked out. She just went unconsciously, he tossed her, but. But she went blank, and after that, me and him were hustling, and the guy punches me in the fucking jaw and I fucking run out the door.

Dennis claimed that after this encounter with Amanda's killer, Dennis took off running. And after escaping the apartment, he ran past and nearby park to safety. But there was, of course, a problem with his story. Honestly, I'm being real honest. I don't know anything else, no more, no less. It's actually a problem because you're not being honest. You're still not telling us about truth. I'm telling you everything.

You're not. I've told you everything. I'm sorry. You may say no, you're not. No, you're not. Listen to me. Listen, listen. Listen.

Remember when I told you we know things you don't know we know? There's more, OK? There's video right there on the corner, okay? Facing out on that street and I've watched that video and no one goes running down the street on that side of the road And it's caught across to the park. We've watched it So that's another part of your story. That's not true. You're not telling us the truth There are several times throughout his interview that Dennis has called out for his obvious and blatant lies, and each time this happened, Dennis changed his story to match the evidence that he was confronted with.

By the end, Dennis' story had changed so much that he actually claimed to have gone to a man-to-man's apartment with Amanda's killer, which is probably true if you want to get really technical about it because he was Amanda's killer. So the guy didn't do it. You did it because she owed you money for drugs. Is that what happened? No, I didn't kill her. I'm sorry to say I did it.

Okay, so what happened? I mean, we're going out and say, my dealer went to her house. What? My dealer went to her house. You're a dealer went to her house? Yeah. You're a dealer. My dealer.

Did he go there with you? Yes. Okay, tell me what happened here. He's just like, yo, where she lives? I told her where she lived. He's like, yo, you're coming with me? I don't know the fuck what you say. Why did you go to the house?

Because I wanted to know where it was. And you fucking will start writing to me all week. He was writing to you all week. Why? Just get his money back. And yet another bundle of lies and bullshit, Dennis told police that he brought his drug dealer to Amanda's apartment. And when they went inside,

Dennis witnessed the murder. He knocks on the door. He was like, yo, I'll answer the door. She answered the door. He pushed her in. So she answers the door? Yeah. He pushes her in. Pushed her in the house. I'm like, yo, why are you pushing her? And he was like, oh, I want my fucking money.

I don't care what you say. Like, you're going to pay for this or she is. Well, sometimes, Poghead just started poker. He pulled some eyes, Poghead just started poker. He's, you see what it was? Tonight. And he started poker. When pulled some ice pocket to start a poker. He's seen with a watch. And he started poker. When she stand it up, what do you do then? I'm going to get you your money. You don't have to go to this extent. I don't care if it's my money. I work for this shit.

According to Dennis, he simply stood by and watched as his drug dealer brutally stabbed the life out of Amanda. He's going and going and going and going. He's continuously stabbing her and I'm like, what was he stabbing her at? A stomach, a chest I guess. What was he fighting? She was fighting. So, did she fall at some point?

After everything I guess. When you her, what position was she in? She's probably down on the floor. Did you see the stab wounds in her? Yeah. You see a lot of blood? She was dying. How could I could tell she was dying? I could hear air coming from her throat. I've just seen her casping for air. You saw it. Just like, just laying down on the floor and trying casping for air. You saw her then just like, head, head, just laying on the floor and trying to gas for air. If Dennis's story was true, which again, I mean, come on, we all know it's not. But if it was true, Dennis would have to give the detectives a name. He would have to tell them who this drug dealer was.

Shockingly, this wasn't something Dennis was willing to do. This guy that was with you that you took me. Dennis claimed that he wasn't willing to give up the killer's name because he feared that the guy would come after him. Yet Dennis was more than willing to tell police what the killer looked like, what cars he drove, and where to find him. He was a Wayne guy. Yeah, it's my dealer.

I know he's your being, that's not him. Is he drive? Rightfully so, the cops weren't buying Dennis' story, but no matter how much they pressed him, Dennis maintained that he did not kill Amanda Plass. Every conversation that we've had with you, it's changed, and you're still not telling us the whole truth. You're not done. I don't believe that there's another person there. You won't prove it. You're going to need to say the name, because I don't believe there's another person there. You want to prove it, you're going to need to say the name. Because I don't believe there's another person there. It's just another one in a string of mischievous that you

told us all the way along. There's no reason for me to believe you. All the things that you told us so far about all the different things were not true. It's time to come clean, Gannis. This is it. Right now, right here. Let me ask you this. You killed her because she owed you money. Didn't kill her. I'm a sasskin. I didn't kill her. Once again, I wouldn't stoop to that level. Following his police interview, Dennis was booked and charged with first-degree murder. It took a while for Dennis' case to go to trial, but in June of 2016, five years after Amanda was killed, a jury was finally able to hear the case. That Friday afternoon, when Miss class was getting ready to go to work at friend use, I'm a morally driving chick.

She had to be to work for five. When the defendant came into her apartment while she was getting ready and stabbed her six times. Her face was cut and her throat was cut. In the end, and after only five hours of jury deliberation, Dennis Rosaroman was convicted of first-degree murder. As his custom, before Dennis was sentenced, Demand's family provided the court with impact statements. I am a beautiful daughter, will never have a chance to put her face to the sun, infuse more and neither should it.

I would like to ask the court to be enough high as the sentence possible of life without a fool. The request that Amanda's mom made the court was granted. And Dennis Rosa Roman was sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole. Given that Dennis never confessed, there is that lingering question. Why did he do it? Well, we don't know for sure, and we'll likely never know for sure. There is a pretty solid theory about the motive.

About a week before Amanda was killed, her apartment had been broken into, and someone stole her weed. Amanda told her friends that she suspected Dennis was the thief, and she was probably right. On the day of the murder, Dennis likely assumed that Amanda wasn't home and broke into her apartment to steal her weed again. But Amanda was home and probably confronted Dennis and her kitchen. From there, a violent struggle broke out. Amanda fought for her life, but sadly, Dennis got the best of her and stabbed her to death.

Imagine killing someone for weed. Following Amanda's brutal murder, her family spent several years trying to get a new law passed in her name. When the police were first called to the crime scene, one of the first responders took photos of Amanda's dead body and shared them with his buddies. These gruesome photos eventually surfaced online, and this new law dubbed Amanda's Law would ideally deter first responders from sharing crime scene photos in the future.

It's coming up on the 10-year anniversary of the murder of Amanda Plas, and her family is still fighting to have a law with her name when it passed. It would prevent first responders from taking a chair on other ice photos of a crime scene, which is exactly what happened to Amanda. This is not a lot that you would think would need to be set in place, but here we are. We need to actually tell people that they can't do this and we need to make sure that there's a consequence because those officers really didn't receive a consequence. In August of 2022, more than 10 years after the murder, Amanda's law was finally signed

into law by the Massachusetts State Governor, making it illegal for first responders to take and share unauthorized photographs of a crime scene. I guess you could say that some good news came out of this horrific tragedy, but it sure feels like a very small gain when you consider what was lost. By all accounts, Amanda was a vibrant, caring, and talented young woman with a bright future. Sadly, her life was cut short because some asshole wanted free weed. Another takeaway from this case is that it's so important for homicide detectives to do their due diligence. Amanda's boyfriend Seth, or her ex-boyfriend Jesse, could have easily been charged with murder,

if even the smallest piece of circumstantial evidence placed them at Amanda's apartment when she was killed. Had these detectives not thoroughly investigated every aspect of this crime, an innocent young man might be sitting in prison right now while it killer roamed free locking the streets looking for another victim When it comes to murder investigations, there is so much at stake that it's usually best to

put assumptions aside and let the evidence speak for itself. Because the reality is, it's not always the husband and it's not always the boyfriend. Well, that's going to do it. Thank you so much for joining us. We hope you've enjoyed it. If you have, consider joining plus sword and scale.com. Slash plus we'll see Soared in scale team, this is Amanda from Denver. I wanted to tell you guys you are so incredibly freaking awesome. I absolutely love listening to your podcast. I've actually been a few guys just beginning and love, love, love it. I love how you guys have become this awesome independent group and do your own thing and I absolutely love it.

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It's just y'all's a service. So keep it up. Keep up the good work, stay safe, that's that whole for life. you