Sword and Scale - Episode 243

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

When police in Vancouver, Washington received a 911 call the morning of January 7th, 2007, they didn’t expect the caller to admit to a murder in the first ten seconds. Law enforcement would soon discover that the caller, 25-year-old Dylon Ray Peterson, was even more unhinged than he sounded on the phone. Thankfully, the young man was willing to share with them every detail of what he had done.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Welcome to season 10 episode 243 of Sword and Scale, for show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. We're working on upgrading plus and that's gonna involve a whole new app and a whole new website and all kinds of cool new features and all kinds of new stuff. In the meantime, we need your help. Log in to plus if you remember and make sure your email address is correct so we can get a hold of you if we have to. If you're not a member, consider joining. It's pretty cheap.

And you get all kinds of extra bonus stuff. Let's go to Sword and Scale.com slash plus to join. It really is the only reason we're still here providing true crime entertainment for you right now. These days, the world is full of images that attempt to pull on our heartstrings if there are any left. Hey, guilty as charged. We do it here all the time. I like to think we do it for not so much an aferious purpose as to provide you with

entertainment. I'm thinking more along the lines of something that asks you for money, but doesn't really provide anything in return. You know, charity. Think more along the lines of those ASPCA commercials with Sarah McLaughlin singing over images of sad puppy faces. Begging you to donate. I mean, who doesn't want to watch that at 3 o'clock in the morning? And it doesn't just stop with our televisions or podcast appliances, either.

We see it everywhere. Like the single mother sitting outside of Costco with her three dirty looking children and a sign that says very hungry, anything helps. God loves you. And then maybe, you know, because you're a psychopath like me, you decide to sit there in your car, parked, and watch for a little while. You know, just to see what happens. And then about an hour later, you see that she's actually hit her daily goal, or maybe she's late for her Pilates class. So she packs up all her cardboard signs and her plastic container that previously held

cheese puffs, which she's repurposed for collecting spare change, or more preferably dollar bills y'all, and then shuffles her three dirty kids into her late model Mercedes-Benz, gifted to her by her sugar daddy ex-husband, who also sends her a pretty decently sized check every month as required by state law She wipes off the dirt or make up from her children and off they go Back to their beautiful middle-class home in suburban America after a hard day of begging You know sometimes you find yourself handing over a $10 bill just because it's easier and less stressful to our psyche than just avoiding eye contact. While it's true you may never know the true details of everyone's circumstances,

it is important to try and make some sort of logical assessment. There are numerous quotes about giving to the needy without a second thought. These bleeding heart liberals really don't want you to think about anything, just hand over the change. And while these are niceties, the sentiment is idealistic and arguably dangerous. Here's a secret. Some people cannot be helped. Some do not want to be helped.

A person who appears to be in need may just be playing the part of a harmless victim to ensnare someone naive and selfless into their web. It happens all the time. In fact, that was Ted Bundy's favorite tactic. This way of thinking may seem a little harsh to some, particularly if you live in Southern California. But self-preservation is crucial. How can we ever help anyone who truly needs it if we aren't considering our own safety first?

Those with the biggest hearts have got to be extra cautious with whom they lend a hand. After all, salt and sugar look the same, and sodas cyanide. Vancouver, Washington and Portland, Oregon are a little bit like sister cities. With less than a 20 minute drive between the two, they have similar personalities. Bro, where did you get that half-grave store? Really? Well, like the vintage surf store? Yeah. Yeah, it was $72.

Are you still working at that co-op? No, man, I quit. It wouldn't give me enough mental wellness days. Unfortunately, people like this in the Portland Vancouver area are as natural and common as cows are on a farm. I saw that flyer at the co-op. Are you going to the almond-milking demo? The trailblazers, please.

I mean, I like basketball, but that name reminds me way too much of colonization. Though they may be irritating, we don't often see hipsters as a threat. Ezra McCannless was an anomaly. We aren't sideying the crunchies, like they might steal our wallets. The biggest source of anxiety around people like this is whether or not they'll shame us for eating a burger. Save the cows. Go vegan. Though this type of person has increased in number over the last decade or so, there's a question that this was one of the cities in which they proliferated most quickly

Early in the morning on January 7th 2007 Police in Vancouver, Washington received a 911 call The person on the other line was one of the strangest characters They had ever encountered Encountered. On the hill, how many helped you? Um, I'm downbears and I just killed two people. Who did you kill?

At first, it was unclear whether or not this was a prank caller. Okay, where are you at right now? I am at uh, 21, no, 29-01 in North K-3. How did you kill them? Hoover, with a knife. Are they there, too? Not anymore. Where are they at?

Well, they're here physically, but they're not here. Yeah, they're enjoying. They're there. They're bodies are there. Yeah. Sure, they do. What do they do me? No, what's your name? I'm Don Peterson Peter thing what's your first name?

Joan no, Joan Peter's Joan CEO and No, Dylan Peters. Dylan, C-O-A-N? What? That is for your first name. How is mine for Dylan? Dylan, do you know what your middle-niche will do? Or... Can you date a bird? Come on, I have killed two people.

What's your date of birth, Dylan? Come on. Dylan, how old are you? Just, uh, light on. Get him here. Okay, where are you at in the house? At the front door. Where's the knife at?

Where's the knife at? I don't know. Okay, Dylan, tell me where the knife is at. You know where it's at. No. The knife? I'll look for it. I don't want you to get it.

I want you to tell me where it's at and how. I'm gotten. Um... No. I can't help it. It's awful. Why did you tell them? Why? Uh- double. Why did you tell them?

Why? Uh-huh. Why? How? You live there? Can you imagine getting a call this insane? At this point, the dispatcher had officers in route to the scene. A set of small, single-story, conjoined condos in a lower-income neighborhood. Really now come on I killed two people I

Got that yeah, I killed two people I told them why did you tell them why yes because because why because I was born to Van Juber K Street There's an orange Camaro outside There's a red neon, you know, somewhere near. Is the Camaro yours? No. No. No. Okay. You've got to be kidding me. Okay. What type of party you have? I woulda done it sooner. Do you realize that? What type of party you have? No, I'm nice. I'm not drive. Oh, on.

Yeah, come on, lady. Does this guy sound like he has a driver's license? Give me a break. Where do you live at? Oh, awful, awful. It's terrible. I'm home, I'm one-one. And there are no cops here.

OK, where do you, I give you the street, the cross street, I give you everything and there are people dead and it's bloody and it's the grove. Okay, how long ago did you do this? After a new birth of them were dead? No. How long ago did that happen? Are you sure that's how long ago? Yes. Oh, poor Sandy just stopped breathing.

Poor Sandy just stopped breathing. Poor Sandy. Is anybody else there with you? No. No, there's not. What does a ton of blood have? Oh, no. Are you still by the front door?

No, but the front door is open. The front door's open? Yeah. The dog outside. Where are you at in the house? By the front door, it's not big apartment. How? How?

Not a big apartment. The outside was a lot all over myself. I'm in the doorway talking to you how to get the trillet that is toppled over. Yeah, no, I killed people with a knife. Okay, I killed people with a knife. You know what that takes? It takes a lot. Awful, terrible, awful. Okay, do you know where the knife is right now? Where? No. Do you have it on you?

No, okay. No, I killed a mile off it. It sounds almost as if this caller, Dylan Peterson, is reciting a script, like something from a strange dark sitcom that I would never watch. With an amount of vocal fry, that could be deadly to the casual diabetic passerby or the local vegan. I've never in my life heard a sassier murder. The things this guy says make it almost impossible to believe he's anything more than someone suffering from psychosis.

The dispatcher though had to keep Dylan talking until units arrived on scene, which wasn't a difficult task. I killed him. I killed him. I killed him. It was me. I was watching. I was watching. I was watching. I was watching. I was watching. I was watching. I was watching.

I was watching. I was watching. I was watching. I was watching. I was watching. I was watching. I was watching. I was watching.

I was watching. I was watching. I was watching. I was watching. I was watching. I was watching. I was watching. I was watching. I was him. I killed him, bowl. It was me. I guess there's blood everywhere. There was a fight. It was terrible. What happened? They let you in and you had a fight with them.

They're lifeless bodies here. Did you go there with any attention to kill them, Dylan? So, what the intention? I think they're here. I think the cops are here. They want you to stay on the phone? Yeah, yeah. So we know the cops are here. Dogs park even cops are here.

Yeah, they're there here. Alright. Okay, stand on the phone until I tell you to look at it and hang up, okay? I'm there here. There. Yeah, no. Wow. Man. Wow. Land. Ah.

Are you still on the doorway? No. Where are you right now? The waiting for the cog. I know you're waiting for the cog. I'm waiting for the cog. Are you inside or outside? No.

Shit. With me, with all means, the massacre, Shit! It was me. It was all me. The massacre. Disgusting. Now they only stop. I could decide now, don't stop. No.

No. I saw a knife. I saw a knife. Months ago, I saw a knife. How? Yeah. You know... My goodness. I was born in the middle of the night, and I was born in the middle of the night. I was born in the middle of the night, and I was born in the middle of the night. I was born in the middle of the night, and I was born in the middle of the night.

I was born in the middle of the night, and I was born in the middle of people here. There were a ton of people here. When did that happen? There were a ton of people there? No. Okay. No. No, it wasn't. Ah. Come on.

It's a good joke. It's a good joke I'm talking to you. I'm staying on my phone. Yeah, I understand it, stay on the phone. Yeah, I understand inside, though. Yeah. There's no one here. Yeah. All right, no. Is that your dog that's there?

They're here. Yeah, that's the dog. Is it your dog, do you know what it's name is? Uh, it's Deity. Deity? What's that dog is it? Deity, it's a black lab. Well, at least you I will blow the hand. How can you make sure they're happy if it's a ball? Well, at least he didn't kill the dog. But isn't it odd that he knew its name? Not only that, but he left the front door wide open and the dog

didn't run away. That's a dumb dog. Dylan also knew the names of people he had allegedly murdered, and he told the dispatcher that he saw the knives he would later use, quote, months ago. There's no way that someone would let this lunatic into their home willingly, right? On January 7th, 2007, police units in Vancouver, Washington were deployed to a home on K-Street. The apartment in question was within one of the duplex buildings on that corner. They were all situated close together, painted identically in light egg shell yellow, with vibrant red front doors. When police arrived, they spotted 25-year-old

Dylan Peterson wearing dark slacks and a white t-shirt smeared with blood. He stood shoeless with a strange grin on his face. The once white socks on his feet had left bloody footprints when he walked outside to meet the officers. They were absolutely drenched with the fluids of whoever was inside that apartment. Dylan's own blood added to the mixture, coming from a nasty gash on his hand. The final confirmation of Dylan's self-proclaimed crimes came only when officers stepped into the home themselves. It was a bloodbath. Once Vancouver police finally had Dylan in the interview room after his medical needs

were tended to, they got to work. All they wanted to know was how he knew these people and why he killed them. Dylan Peterson sat across from two detectives leaning back nonchalantly with his legs crossed. He wore a white jumpsuit and had a bulbous bandage on his right hand. How did Raytron work? Did you meet these people through the culinary and student board? Nick's, yeah Nick, is in the same class as I am at the school. And how I came to live with them is that I fell in hard times. I screwed my life up and ended up under a bridge for six days.

The informant in Portland. I still went to school and I couldn't make it to school because my stuff kept getting wet. I couldn't stay dry. So, if I'm just broke down and called Nick, you know, just hoping. And yeah, and then let me... Just hoping they'd give you a place to stay, you mean? Yeah, you know, just at least just to give me out of the rain. Now here they sat. Not even two months after Nick and his family agreed to take Dylan in. Nick Nagel was Dylan's classmate in this culinary arts program, but they weren't very close. Dylan wasn't really friends with anyone from class. Nick was just his closest acquaintance. Sounds like Nick got paired with the weird kid at school.

Ended up being just a little too nice to him and eventually got roped into agreeing to let him stay at their house. You see what being nice does to you? But Dylan Peterson was clean cut, well spoken, and had an overall calm demeanor. He had gotten kicked out of his apartment and was only on the streets for a week, and Nick probably felt bad for him. All of his class materials kept getting soaked by the frequent inclement weather. It is the Pacific Northwest, after all. And Dylan didn't have a consistent way to get to school. It's possible that Nick figured he'd be doing a good deed and he was just a nice guy.

So by doing this, he would be facilitating Dylan's completion of the culinary program, which would otherwise not be possible. Put yourself in this scenario for a second. How many of you would have offered your home to this poor kid who was just down on his luck? Did you have to pay them rent? No. I just helped him around their house,

made them dinner, got them things they needed to laundry for the clothes. Where did you sleep? Where I was at the space available, normally, normally in the next room. In this apartment, Nick, Dylan's classmate, lived with his younger brother, Matthew, and his father, Eric. Eric often left the home for several nights at a time for work, and there were only two bedrooms, so the four guys rotated between the two beds and the couch, depending on who

was home. It does, however, seem like Dylan got bed priority. Okay, awarded Where do Matthew sleep in Matthew slept on the couch Normally if not there he'd sleep in his dad's room Yeah The two of them always slept on the couch Always and then you would take turns or not sometimes sleep in the bedroom Yeah, if if Nick wasn't there I'd sleep sleep in his bedroom where I would sleep in Eric's bedroom. Porteen age Matthew didn't even have his own bed, let alone a bedroom.

But when a stranger came to stay, bedrooms were made readily available. What a nice guy. So the only reason you met these people was through neck at school. Is that correct? That's correct. What a nice guy. So the only reason you met these people is through Nick at school. Is that correct? That's correct. When you were at the hospital the day you talked about the things you've been going through while growing up through school, your adolescence, basically the demon you've been fighting

throughout your life. Can you talk about that and tell me how you managed that problem through your life growing up? As a child, I was hyperactive, you know, sort of hyperactive, not a fine boy, but energetic, I went to an energetic and always getting into trouble. And, you know, I consider myself at that time an average teenager. I wasn't treated like an average person. I was always treated differently. You know, a bit of a weird kid, you know.

School is a bit rough. I picked on a lot. By the other students you were talking about? Yeah. Why would they pick on you? Yeah, because I was a weird kid. I was skinny, odd, loud. Did you do things to get attention? Not from those people. I just really just did what I wanted to do.

Something tells me none of that changed for Dylan in adulthood. There's always a constant harassment, no matter where I went, what class it was, how I hung out with everyone I always had something to say. One of the important realizations we must come to in adulthood and believe me, I know is that we can't just say and do whatever we want and not elicit some sort of response from our fellow human beings. For example, if you're walking around the mall wearing a cow costume, people are going to stare. It's human nature. You're doing something weird outside the norm. People are going

to stare. Dylan Peterson grew up in a family with three siblings. He was second to last, one of the two middle children. Very early in this interview, one of the two middle children. Very early in this interview, one of the detectives seated across from Dylan asked the question everyone wants to know, what was his childhood like? How did your mother get along? We had a long, alright, I guess. Was there one thing that she had a problem with in her life with alcohol? That was later on. I was

Can't we were kept separate from our parents? And I mean like we just sort of Just sort of like you know Hands around you guys go do something come back when it's dinner or two of the dishes go downstairs watch your TV and go that Unless I may ever have to be together really it was like on a daily basis was that was there table It was at the dinner table. Yeah Yeah, that was up that was with her second husband What happened your natural father did he want to divorce him? Yeah, he is a abuse agent. He dropped us off at my grandparents house one day. When I was five or

six. Did you just disappear? I didn't see any sense. Since you were six. Were you abused? Not if you have a flamethrower. I'm asking you. What are you abused? Yeah. Physically? Yeah. Sexually? No. I used to get stained a lot.

I wish to have with that. That was George. My first step father. Okay. He's...kind of ritualistic about it. I don't know. Was the discipline, uh, metered out evenly amongst all the kids? Or would they specifically focus on one shot?

Yes. It was me. I was the one who at the spank, just because I was always on acting, I was always on getting in trouble. Dylan's negative attention-seeking behavior seems to have started very early and continued becoming a deeply rooted element of his personality until it ultimately escalated to this point. Come on, I killed two people. I understand. You lost that?

Yes. I killed two people. How could you tell them? Why did you tell them? Why? Yes. Because. Because why?

Because I was born to... And... And there are people dead in the blood of the grove. Now, we aren't saying he ended up in this interrogation room because he was spanked as a child. That would be insane. But perhaps the culmination of his childhood experiences and his DNA created the perfect storm for this impulsive scenario. When Dylan was arrested on the scene as blood alcohol level was high enough that he was

impaired, but not high enough for the fact to be considered later in his defense. It's clear that whatever was going on here, Dylan had some comorbid mental illness. Clearly, it's interesting when police have custody of someone who's already openly admitted to their crimes. At that point, the discussion is no longer a game of cat and mouse, rather an investigation into the why and how this tragedy occurred. Vancouver police had hours with this guy, just digging into a psyche. school. I think you mentioned to detect a tonsil myself. You try to take your life roughly four to six times. Is that true? Yeah. Now I think one time you told me that your mom, well at least two times you're you're taking some medication that belongs to your mom and she'd actually stocked you or interrupted

it. She made you vomit. I mean, remember they got into a fight the first time. I was 11 and remember they got into a fight again, again. And I don't know. It just was like that's it. You know, I'm sick of being hit all the time. I can't stand it. Seeing it, doing it. I was like, the kid, you know, I was just down a bottle of tonne all. I didn't, I just was like, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna come myself right now.

I can't help from work. Yeah, I just told me to go on a bathroom and throw up. How old were you then? That, that, that was a lot of life. A lot of life? Next time, I was in ninth grade, three days before I graduated in high school. So it made some dumb comments.

At 25 years old, Dylan had already tried to kill himself for to six times, depending on how you define trying to kill yourself. The first time was when he was just a child. It was because he got into a fight with his brother. He must have gotten some sympathy from this attempt because he did it quite a few more times. The positive reinforcement may have contributed to it. Later on, according to Dylan, it was because a girl made some dumb comment

to him. This man has a fragile will to live, let's say that. By the thatter, he really, really likes the attention. When I killed myself and I tried to kill myself and when I was going to high school, I was so close to being, to the artist being gone. And then for some reason, I had to bother and you know it was over. But it was over like it. And yeah, it's gone away. I resolved something. I resolved something, you know. Things look differently. It was something was resolved.

So what was that something? Just the disaster that I felt inside of myself like how awful, how awful I am in general, no matter my greatest attribute, it's nothing to the person who I really am inside. Do you have a poor image of yourself? Always. When did that start? Always. As long as you that start? Always.

As long as you can remember? Yeah. It's an odd kid that I made a lot of. I have a... Yeah. I know I have four, three really good looking kids. You know? You're not one of them?

No. You figured your siblings or your brothers and sisters are all better looking than you? Absolutely, because that's all you hear. I remember they used to tell me not to smile like that, you know? Puzzled for a picture, you don't smile like that. You still see him. How am I supposed to smile? Confirmed.

Dylan's smile is very creepy, especially the one he displayed after a murdering two people. So Dylan had incredibly low self esteem from a young age. This impulsive decision to try to kill himself one final time apparently brought Dylan so close to death that he had some sort of realization, something that reset his brain and allowed him to live for a few more years without a similar incident. Without professional intervention, severe mental illness doesn't just go away on its own. Once he entered adulthood, Dylan began having problems once again. the beginning. I don't know. I can't really, I really haven't grasped it yet. I spent, I spent two, I spent the three years, two years just putting all that away, right? Putting all that away. I spent a year and a half in an apartment where in a boat telling hotel yet became a

gorgophobic, massive alcoholic to the point where I would just wake up, drink, you know, go out to the bar, couldn't, couldn't keep a job. You know, I'd see my family sometimes talk to them whenever I'd have like, you know, a couple of good days, but like, oh, you know, it's time to get a job, it's time to see your family, it's time to... That's when he started showing himself to me. That's when he was... When you were living alone in the apartment?

Yeah. I mean, yeah. Did you go to a mirror or... Did you have... Did you see this person? That's fine. Oh yeah, I had just stuck in the mirror. Something went right, went up in the mirror.

Something went right. Dylan speaks of the demon inside of him, but he doesn't seem to be talking about an actual demon associated with any religion I've ever heard of. Dylan sounds like he's explaining a hidden side of himself, one that only comes out when he's at his worst. year. After year. What did you have any girlfriends in high school or some close relationships there? I had friends, yeah. What do you know what I'm talking about? Like, close girlfriends where you didn't?

No, not really. Not any. Have you been married? I've been married now. Have you kids? No, I do not have any children. Do you have a girlfriend right now? No, I do not. Who's the closest friend you have in Vancouver, Portland? The closest friend.

Right? I mean, personal relationship. That's not fair. It's totally not fair. It's... It's's not fair. It's telling me. It's telling me. It's the 15 year old. Yeah. But he's dead. He's dead. How does that make you feel? I believe. Why do you feel relieved? Because I got it out. I got it out. Explaining that whatever,

this has been eating me away has been a piece. You know, it's been satisfied. Is it a demon? I believe it's been a demon, absolutely. I don't want to put words in your mouth now. What did you describe as a demon? I don't think it's a demon, absolutely. I don't want to put words in your mouth now, what to describe as a monster. How long has it been inside you? The monster's always been there. Just a little over a year before he moved to Portland for culinary school, Dylan was living

in Idaho. He had one female friend who seemed to understand him in a way that no one else did, but she had a husband. And that husband did not like Dylan. He was out with my friend who knew from high school. And yeah, I just met her. I just met her, her husband, and we had some drinks and we laughed. And he punched me in the face. What happened?

He said, I don't like you. I got out of the car, you know, blood dripping on myself. And I just was like, why did you do that man? I don't like you. When they should have. This recollection sounds a bit, oh I don't know, dramatized. But we'll go with it. The guy, he really, the second, the guy, he in the face and I was like, I like you.

And you know, and then I hit him back, he like, took off. And so, I give this ram, like, cross the way. And I follow him and I just, you know, just wail on them. Were you taking out some of your anger and frustration on it? I just decided to be hit. You know, I got, it was just I, it was just the one you get hit so many times and you know, there's nothing you can do about it ever. There just isn't anything you can do about it. So I always just took it, right? You get hit, you get hit.

You see, yeah. Right? I almost like enough, enough. You know, I don't believe that, I don't believe in hitting, I don't deserve to be hit, but fuck, you know, it's my, no, this is enough. And I'm gonna get back.

Yeah. Well, you kidding him for all the time you've been hitting the past, is that what you're saying? In a way, yeah, but really, I just wanted to show him and like everyone else that, yeah, no, you can't, I'm not a pushover, I'm not a doll, I'm not, you know, I'm not something to be discarded like, yeah, I know, because I was trying to get my own power for the first time.

That's like, I'm a true person, you know, well, I'm a true body, I should say." Good thing he made that clarification. It's like Dylan is retelling his own super villain origin story. Quick, somebody called drunk 3PO. Unfortunately for the Nagel family, Dylan would reach his final form at their cozy, quiet Vancouver home. They had, Vancouver home. They had, selflessly, agreed to let this man live with them, and little did-old Dylan Peterson was arrested after calling 911 on himself. He had been living at an address in Vancouver, Washington, the small apartment belonged to the family of Dylan's classmate, Nick Nagel. Dylan grinned in his bloodstained clothes as he was taken

away from the scene. It was still early in the morning when officers finally got a chance to enter the home themselves. What they saw resembled a slaughterhouse, and that's exactly what the small apartment had become. The front door to the home opened right up to the living room, and mirrored another door on the opposite end of the house. This door opened up into Nick Nagel's bedroom. Nick's younger brother, 15-year-old Matthew, was slumped in the door frame on moving. He wore a t-shirt and boxers, now slashed open by a knife and bloodied. His neck had been deeply cut in addition to many other obvious stab wounds. It was a quiet Sunday morning and police still had more to discover.

Over in the other bedroom, officers discovered Sandy Torell, face down in a blood-soaked dress, slashes covering her back. Sandy was Nick and Matthew Nagel's mother. She didn't live in the apartment but was visiting her son Matthew. Nick and his father, Eric, were not home when the attack ensued. Blood covered the walls, floors, and furniture in the apartment. It had been tracked back and forth across the floor for who knows how long. It had been smeared on everything from laundry baskets to floor lamps and splattered across appliances and bed sheets.

It was clear these people didn't go down without a fight. Dylan himself was covered in blood and defensive wounds, including the gash on his hand, which turned out to be pretty deep. Why on earth would someone murder their only friend in the world? Well, they're only acquaintance. Remember when police asked Dylan who he was closest with? He answered 15-year-old Matthew Nagel? His other victim was the boy's mother, an innocent visitor to the apartment. What a way to bring in the new year. The holidays are as hard as for me.

Emotionally? Absolutely. The torture, even. Yeah, just the weather. Just being alive. But you've gotten through the holidays and you're into a new year. You made it. Did I? You made it to the holidays. You didn't start the New Year out right. What happened when you got back to living at the Nagel house again? What happened last

time was there a party at the house, right? There was a party, yeah, there were a lot of people over. When you were this? I was there, yeah. Dylan apparently wasn't a huge fan of Sandy from the start. He thought she was an irresponsible parent. As she was, in comparison to most of Dylan's upbringing, Dylan felt some sort of protectiveness over Matthew. And when Matthew came home from school with several F's on his report card, Dylan was disappointed at Sandy's lack of response.

Why is it always so that those with literally no moral compass are the most judgemental about the actions of others? I wonder. She's like the two cool moms. Like, hey, you're coming home, if you need some drugs, like everyone loves Sandy, because she's got the hook up. I don't like Sandy for that reason. Did you like Matthew?

I love that kid, yeah. He's a good kid. He was a good kid. He just needed, he just needed a little discipline. Very bright, really willing, energetic. All he needed was just... All he needed was just, yeah, just a reason why.

And he was even looking for that. Like, we had talked and, you know, and we just sat down one day and just, like, we just had a talk. And he's like, you know, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm like, yeah, you know what? I don't want to drink anymore. And, you know, and he's like, I want to know. I'm sick of the friends I hang out with. All they do is this. And I was like, you know, I've been there, you know, totally been there. You need to, you know,

need to be a extra quick out of tibiting. Now, what are you good at? And he's like, once says I should be an actor? And I was like, perfect, right up my alley, right up my alley. Will you see like a brother to you? I think I was, he was, he was like my little brother. I mean, sound like you really cared about and looked after him. I tried to. Isn't it crazy to listen to someone with such a delusional perspective?

Saturday evening, just a few hours before the murders, the party began winding down, and Matthew and Dylan talked on the couch as people cleaned up the kitchen. The two planned to sleep on the couch and Sandy would sleep in one of the other bedrooms. Well, first I went into the bathroom and now I felt tall. You weren't tall, you're six one. I know, but I don't always feel tall. You mean you've felt your height? And I, and something was nice, slouch, but I found myself standing very erect. Very erect, and I was, yeah, uncharacteristically working at them. Were they asleep?

No, we were in the living room. We were, we were chatting, we were talking about all this stuff, you know, and they were in the kitchen, and We were, we chatted and we were talking about all this stuff. And, you know, when they were in the kitchen, and they were cleaning, you know. So this is previously through the night, since before the, this is, this is a couple of hours before. Okay. And, yeah, and so I go, I look in the mirror,

and I saw his eyes. You saw who's eyes? The person inside me. And he was looking back at you? Yeah, I noticed his eyes. And I left. No way, let's deal with the eyes in the mirror. What was that look that he gave you?

It's not necessarily the look it. It's the color of his eyes. What color is that? My eyes, my eyes, are typically their light dark brown, his are green and blue and like really hazeln brilliant. This cannot possibly be an act. No one in the right mind could use these words and not break character. When it was no longer in the mirror, what was going to your mind? On the left? Yeah. What was going to my mind was done go jump off the bridge.

So you want to kill yourself? Yeah. Go jump off the bridge here. You might obviously jump it up, but won't hurt much. You know, I won't hurt much. It'll just be, you can do it backwards. It'll just be a fall and a crunch. And then that'll be it.

Oh, the trouble he would have saved if he had gone through with his first plan. Unfortunately, Dylan decided against suicide this time. If he hadn't, several people's lives would have been spared. So what turned you around? He did. I was like, yeah, I'm like, no, I'm gonna go and then

I'm gonna have some more to drink and then, you know, and then he talked off and then there's no way I'll fill anything. So I did that and then, yeah, I'm not gonna be good to knife on the knife kit. Your knife, kit that black? Yeah. Kit that was in that bureau?

Yeah. And I found just my sharpest knife. What was that knife? It was a seven inch pair of knife. What was she found at what you do? She just held it. She just held it. She just held it. And I thought, and I was like,

you can't do this. Like, you can't do it. But he was always, yeah, he was there egging me on. He was, you can't do what, though. I couldn't kill Matthew. I couldn't. There's no way. Is that what the voice or whatever you're reading? Yeah, and he was like, just do it. He was telling you to kill Matthew. Yeah, yeah

Totally yeah, yeah, and then his mom definitely In your her to be contemplated we contemplated we Him and I okay, we fought back and forth for a while and I was doing my best. I was really being obvious. He was more of... He was... Yeah, no. He was very good at this.

He was very good at this. Did he wear you down? He took control. What was it? It's all I needed. It's all I needed. It was just another dream. It's all I needed. It's all I needed. It was just another dream. It's all I needed.

And then I was gone. And he was there. And he was on making all the decisions. And he was, and he was the one, yeah. Yeah. What a perfect scheme. Dylan kills two innocent people, which garners a lot of attention, one of which he supposedly cared about, but it's not Dylan's fault at all. Poor Dylan has a demon inside of him that forced him to kill them. Put aside the fact we don't believe in demons, you know, it still wasn't his fault, poor baby. Now Dylan's only friend in the whole world is gone.

And Dylan is also a victim of this awful demon. What, why kill Matthew? I have no idea. It's nothing against Matthew, really. Nothing against Matthew. It's just that. It doesn't have get against Matthew at all? Because he didn't want more than what he was given in life. He didn't want any.

Yeah, he wasn't about big fancy cars. I wanted was like his El Camino with fixed ring turned 16. So he'd have a car like the rest of his friends. It was just that evil.ino fixed when he turned 16 so he'd have a car like the rest of his friends. It was just that evil. Who had to do it? Why kill Matthew first? Because if I went in the room Matthew would have came into the room and that would have

been more difficult. You mean if you wouldn't kill the mother first? Yeah. He would have interrupted that? Yeah and challenged you. Absolutely. Absolutely. Wow, this is a strategic demon. OK.

And I just took the knife and we'll see if I can do it. Yeah, I was in a field position on a couch like sleeping like he does all the time. OK. I've seen him a million times. And I just, yeah. What did you do? I did, I tried to find the best angle.

Like, I just wanted it to be a blow. You mean stabbing in the neck? Yeah. I just wanted it to be one blow and it'd be done. But it didn't work like that. Why? He woke up, I didn't, I don't know if my knife wasn't picking up, but it went in it. He woke up. He woke up when don't know if my knife wasn't big enough, but it went in it.

He woke up when you you stabbed him. Yeah. Yeah, I stabbed him and I pulled it out and then I toppled him. What was that mean? Well, he got up, you know, and he's like, Dylan, no. And then I just and then I went and went into the room and saw Sandy and just what she do. She just heard noise and says she came out of room and I started staring at her and then I heard Matthew still breathing so I gave him a few final blows to make sure that he was dead and then made sure Sandy was dead too. Did you go back and stare at her again? And then I noticed that my hand was mangled and I was like,

did you use your right hand to wheel the knife? Yes. How would you cut your hand? Did the knife slip? Must've. I don't know. So, do you remember slashing Matthew's neck? I guess throughout now.

How did you get from the couch into that of the bedroom? I had turned around, I'm not sure. I was going after Sandy. Poor Matthew was awoken from his sleep to find his friends stabbing him in the neck. Even after a multitude of blows, he was able to get up and try to run away, making it only as far as the doorway he was found in. It was blood everywhere, just unimaginable. Just more than that. More of your father being. Yeah. What? It was, you know, he recovered in blood. The way he told me was just going to be simple. You know, just the way who told you.

The guy inside of me. What did he tell you? There was going to be a swing sweep. It would just be easier. It would just be easier. You know, that's what it would do. But it's like all the time he lies all the time. If Dylan really did have a blackout moment where a demon came over him, where he entered

some sort of psychotic state, how does he remember so many details about the attack? He remembers minutia down to the decisions he made, and why?. Not only that Dylan recounts it all very calmly. I hear not a hint of remorse, grief, or confusion in his voice. All they said was no Dylan, no. No. Did Sandy turn her back on you? Yeah. When? Did she try to run back on her bedroom? I don't know. I, I, I, I don't know.

Well, I think you stand her about 20 times in the back. Yeah. Yeah. Why so many times? Because maybe... I don't know, I thought that... I thought that she was the cause of the problems. It doesn't... I'm saying it...

as if it's rational. It seemed like you were taking a lot of regression on her by stabbing her so many times. You know, front and back, I think she had over 30 stab wounds or lacerations or cuts. We met at her. I must have been. I had to have been. I was definitely mad at her. I was definitely mad at her.

Did you feel anything when you were stabbing her? I feel anything. Inside, did you feel relief? Did you feel satisfaction? Did you feel anything when you were standing there? I was like feeling anything. Inside, did you feel relief? Did you feel satisfaction? Did you feel anger? Was there some emotion going through you when you were doing this? Just, yeah, total anger. Total anger, yeah. To get the job done. Yeah, that's something I want to say.

To get the job done is what Dylan said. After you cut and stabbed both Matthew and Sandi, did you try to give him first aid or anything? I called it off. What did you tell the police? I just killed two people. Here's my address, the car. Can you infertically honest about it? Totally. Totally, totally. I was like, get here now. Get here now. I just killed two people. Where are you? I just killed two people. Well, you're a matter of fact about it. Yeah. Get here. I just killed two people. Why are you here now? I just killed two people. What do you want to happen to you now? Why do I want it to happen to me now? What do you want to happen to you now? What do I want to happen to me now?

I don't know. I don't know. But you knew the police would come eventually? Absolutely. And that's you wanted that to happen? Yeah. Yeah. Do you think this demon or this whole situation is set in motion to punish you for something?

Absolutely. Absolutely. Do you want to be punished? So I want to be punished? No. I believe. I believe the voices in my head. I don't like me.

I hate myself. I hate myself. I hate myself. And that is what I have to do. I have to suffer. I have to suffer. I have to suffer the rest of my life. It's unavoidable, and it's inevitable, and now... Yeah, now everything is appeased.

Now I can just go on being miserable. Careful. Matthew Nagel's life was ended abruptly and without reason. He loved to play guitar and skateboard, and he loved working on cars, especially his Camaro. Matthew's mother Sandy had a life, too. She had friends and interests, and two sons that she loved to spend time with when she could. She struggled with substance abuse, and wasn't a perfect person.

But who is? She certainly didn't deserve the death penalty at the hands of Dylan Peterson. Matthew's father and brother would soon get the news that half their family had just been murdered and taken away forever. Nick and his dad were now alone. Dylan Peterson pleaded guilty to two counts of first-degree murder. He was sentenced to a weirdly specific 57.5 years in prison. After his sentencing hearing, Eric Nagel spoke only a few words.

He said, quote, I can only pray that each day will be worse than the last, with nothing to look forward to. Dylan's issues with impulse control and attention-seeking behavior got him somewhere he probably never thought he'd be. He doesn't look or sound like a murderer. More like someone who has a favorite my little pony character. And though it wasn't perfect, he did have a pretty normal upbringing. The only difference between Dylan and many of us is that he lacks the willpower

or desire to control his own actions, and seems to be hyper focused on the actions of others. He certainly can't take responsibility for anything. The only logical place for people like Dylan is in prison for the rest of their lives. That's why we built them. That's the purpose of a prison. Segregation of lunatics from the rest of the Polite Society. We seem to have forgotten that in 2023. So let me take a moment to remind you, the only thing we can do in life

is try our best to avoid people like Dylan Peterson. join plus you can find it at sword and scale dot com slash plus also check out our store if you want some really cool merch till next time stay safe 1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1.5-1-1.5- Hi Mike, this is Kelly. I just want to say thank you because you ruined every other podcast for me. I literally can't listen to any other podcast. I love Jordan Scale. It's amazing. I just recently joined Plus and I'm so glad I did because there's over 140 or something like that new episode that I wouldn't even have got a chance to listen to if I wouldn't join. I just really appreciate your format, like you and your team put out. I think I like it because it's just you. So it's like you're talking to the listener instead of just

banter between two people, like most podcasts are. But again, I love this show. Really, really appreciate everything. And you guys are awesome. Thanks. Thanks! Thanks for watching! Thank you.