Sword and Scale - Episode 245

Episode Date: July 31, 2023

In June of 1996, 18-year-old Angie Dodge was found raped and murdered in her Idaho Falls apartment. For Idaho homicide detectives, this case was a big deal. Violent murders like this didn’t typically happen in their area, and they were determined to send someone to prison for Angie’s murder. Unfortunately, to the detriment and disgrace of their careers and to justice, they were willing to do just about anything to make that happen.This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5895676/advertisement

Sort and scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences Listener discretion is advised Excuse me, I'm making a full hat with myself. Yeah, cuz I didn't do shit. I'm making a full hat myself I think you better stand up looking flip and me It's the gold standard at the top of its game I'm not fucking flipping me from above. It's the gold standard. At the top of its game. In the golden age of podcasting, in the golden age of True Crime. This is Season 10, Episode 245 of Sword and Scale.

A show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. In case you still don't know, we have an app called sword and scale, and it's where you can get plus. Our service, which allows you to get early commercial free access to all of our regular episodes, plus episodes with unique and exclusive stories, and all kinds of bonus content store discounts, go get it guys, swordscale.com slash plus. I'm a little bit more focused on the music. I'm a little bit more focused on the music. I'm a little bit more focused on the music. I'm a little bit more focused on the music. I'm a little bit more focused on the music. I'm a little bit more focused on the music.

I'm a little bit more focused on the music. I'm a little bit more focused on the music. I'm a little bit more focused on the music. I'm a little bit more focused on the music. I'm a little bit more focused on the music. I'm a little bit more focused on the music. About a hundred miles west of Yellowstone National Park, and just across Wyoming's state border sits the mid-sized and very typical western American city of Idaho Falls, Idaho. If you've ever driven through that part of the United States, or just about anywhere in

America, Idaho Falls would probably feel pretty similar to you. Among the modest residential areas and mostly white population, Idaho Falls is pretty much a collection of well-known fast food restaurants, gas stations with convenience stores, and car dealerships. You know, like most of America. Quite boring when you really think about it. As for the crime rate, Idaho Falls doesn't have much to brag about. The city has considerably more crime than the US national average,

which is one of the reasons why they have a state police force as well as a local police department. Crime and policing in this city have been handled by these two departments for many years, and back in January of 1997, several detectives at the Idaho Falls Police Department were hard at work. Questioning a this interview, Christopher Tap was 20 years old, and he was mostly known among his friends as a somewhat goofy, fun-loving couch-serving pothead. You know the type. To just about everyone else, Chris was known as a river rat.

Running directly through the center of Idaho Falls is the Snake River, a major multi-state river that earns its name thanks to its S-like shape. Back in the late 1990s, many Idaho Falls teenagers and young adults used to meet up at specific places near this river. They socialized, drank beer, smoked weed, and did all kinds of things, including deciding what kind of trouble they planned to get into on any given night. To the locals, these young adults became known as the River Rats, and Chris Tap was one of them. Yet when the police questioned Chris

in January of 1997, they weren't interested in his river side activities. Instead, they had questions about a very serious crime that involved a young woman named Angie Dodge. On June 13, 1996 Angie Dodge was founded in her apartment on I Street in Idaho, Volta, Idaho. Angie was partially dressed and had multiple incision wounds and lacerations on her neck, severing all major muscles, arteries, and veins of the neck. This incision nearly decapitated Angie. There was also a stab wound to Angie's chest and breast area that entered the chest wall. Angie's stab was rolled on the side and it was determined based on the state of

on dress and the seamen on the Angie's body that she even raped prior to the murder. Stab wounds on Angie's right hand sure that she tried to defend herself from her attack. Angie Dodge was born in December of 1977, and throughout her short life, she towered over her friends. By age 16, Angie was six feet tall and was often ridiculed because of her height. Because of this Angie developed some thick skin and became somewhat of a defender against bullies.

Angie was known to protect her friends and stand up for them if she saw they were being bullied. In other aspects Angie was a typical teenager and pretty well liked. Like Christopher Tap, she was also known as a river rat, but she never had any issues with the law nor was she known to be a troublemaker. In 1995 Angie graduated from Idaho Falls High School with honors. She then continued her education at Idaho State University for a short time. By 1996 Angie had moved out of her parents' house into a

two-story apartment. She was only there for three weeks when something horrific happened to her. In June of that year, two of Angie's co-workers found Angie dead on her bedroom floor after becoming concerned that she didn't show up for work. Angie had been brutally stabbed to death. She was only 18 years old. After Idaho Falls police investigators arrived on the scene, it was determined that Angie had also been raped just before she was killed. As expected, when the snooze reached Angie's family, they took it pretty hard. And none more so than Angie's mom. The last night I saw her, she was at my house.

My last words to her were I love you. I held her in my arms and never again did I ever get able to hold her again. As Angie's mom and her other family members mourned, Idaho Falls homicide detectives worked the case. For them, this was a big deal. Violent murders like this didn't typically happen in the area, and the department was not accustomed to investigating such a complex and high-profile crime. Nonetheless, after some preliminary evidence was collected and several police interviews were conducted, the detectives formed a theory. They believed that multiple people participated

in the crime and that Angie's death was not caused by a lone killer. Science, however, was telling them a different story. When the autopsy was performed, Siemens was found on Angie's body. DNA testing revealed that this Siemens belonged to only one person. Unfortunately, the DNA did not match anyone in the existing criminal databases. Investigators also took DNA samples from dozens of potential suspects, but none came back as a match. By December of 1996, six months had passed since Angie was killed, and Idaho Falls detectives were no closer to solving this crime than they were on the day that Angie died. The leads had started to dry up, and the pressure to solve this crime was only building. Then, in January of the following year, police seemingly got the tip they needed. About 400 miles south of

Vangy's hometown in Eli Nevada, a young man was arrested for raping a woman at knife point. That man was 20 year old Ben Hobbs and shortly before his arrest, Ben was a resident of Idaho Falls. Even more interesting, Ben was a river rat and was pretty close with Angie Dodge. So close in fact that he had visited Angie's apartment once, but that visit was days before she was killed. While sticking to that story, Ben adamantly denied having any involvement with Angie's murder. Yet, when the police questioned Ben's good friend, Christopher Tap, they were told a completely different story. Then you start talking about what he did last night. What did he tell you? He said he did something even over the Angie's house.

You know, he just asked him why he went over there. He said he wanted to try to know Todd, which I guess was all right. They were friends before, I couldn't be still your friends. So you said he went over there and talked with her. So really he did. And then he said he did really, to understand what that was. Initially, Chris tapped and nighed having any knowledge of Angie's murder, but after the cops pressed him, he eventually confessed that Ben Hobbs admitted to the crime. As detectives demanded more details, Chris became noticeably emotional and upset. I mean, that was a great, that was great what you just told me. That's all I can do.

So we're all, said, we just don't even cut it over and over again. I didn't ask, where are you just told me? Just how we cut it over and over again. Where did he cut it over and over again? I didn't know. I don't know.

Krista nighed having any knowledge of Ben's motives, but again, he eventually walked back that statement. According to Krista, the reason that Ben killed Angie was because Angie had told Ben's wife that Ben was cheating on her. What was the deal between him and Angie? What was it that really pissed him off? I know you had a vent here. wife that Ben was cheating on her. As detectives question Chris, they clearly began to suspect that he knew a lot more about this murder than he was letting on, and that he may have even witnessed it. Did you hear a scream or anything?

I wasn't there. I wish I was. I wish I wasn't. Just take me. What do you think happened? I don't know how I got in. I mean, give me a me. What do you think happened? I don't know how I got in.

I mean, give me a scenario. What do you think? You probably knocked on the door. I don't know. This is how come I know you're involved more than what you told me. Okay. You gave yourself away. Believe it or not.

Consciously, you didn't know you gave yourself away But but you did okay Because do you know what your eyes and your body Do you know what what do you think your body is trying to tell you let it all go Now why do you think you're gone through the things that you are it's like you're by the same look I know I have fun I'm starting to it it it it give you way. In an attempt to get him to tell the whole truth Chris was offered an immunity agreement. This agreement protected Chris from prosecution with the conditions that Chris told the truth and that he didn't rape Angie or participate in the murder at all.

Chris accepted this agreement, and with his protection in place, he admitted that he was with Ben when Angie was killed. According to Chris in the early morning hours of June 13, 1996, he and Ben were smoking pot and driving around Idaho Falls when Ben suggested that they pay Angie a visit. Apparently, Ben wanted to confront Angie about the things she revealed to Ben's wife, namely his infidelity. is in fidelity. Chris explained that Ben convinced Angie to let them into her apartment. And not long after they walked inside, Ben and Angie started arguing. Go to a different room or, you know, what happened there with the conversation taking place in there.

It was just basically an air talk. It seemed like it was a heated argument or it wasn't very calm. According to Chris, the argument between Ben and Angie turned into a shouting match. And before Chris could even realize what was happening, Ben pulled a knife from his pocket and began cutting Angie, which caused her to fall to the ground. But was he on top of her cutner? Was he decided when he was cutting her? Where was he at when he was cutting her? caused her to fall to the ground.

Chris claimed that after Angie fell to the floor, Ben climbed on top of her and continued stabbing her. Shocked and terrified by what he was seeing, Chris decided to flee the apartment. Chris explained that he ran for several blocks until he got winded. Then he decided to go back to the apartment to check on Angie. Do a back to the apartment. Yeah. Okay. So you went back inside.

You see what she was doing there? She was on the active one. When you went there, Ben was already gone. Yeah. So you went back and you went back to the apartment. Okay. What did you see? You went to the apartment.

Yeah, she just went on the ground. So what did you do there? To a property. To a company, yeah. You didn't see Ben anywhere around there? No. After seven months of investigation, the police finally seemed to have what they needed.

A witness to the murder. Armed with Chris Taps' confession, Idaho Falls detectives traveled to Nevada, where Ben Hobbs was sitting in jail for allegedly raping a different woman. When the detectives questioned Ben, they didn't say it but he's going on. I was about killing Angie. I had nothing to do with him. So how can you kill to do something? And how would he know what I did, what I didn't do? Ben, right now, the only way that we can help you

is if you are cooperating with us, and you tell us that you got everything. As far as the night that Angie was killed, what can you tell us where you're at? What were you at? What were you doing? I went to get the remember, but the night Angie was killed, I was down at the river, and I saw Angie.

I didn't say a word to her. In response to the detective's accusations, Ben claimed that he had no ill will towards Angie, and that he had no reason to hurt her. He explained that he was unaware of anything that Angie may have said to his wife, and that he didn't have anything to do with Angie's murder. Why would Chris start trying to find you for this? I don't know, it's a good question. It's something I have to know. That's not what he liked about.

Maybe he's trying to get out of what he, maybe he's killed there, something that I didn't kill there. I don't know if he did or not. I don't know who did. All I know is I did not kill Angie Dodge. At this point, the police were pretty confident that they had their man. There weren't a whole lot of knife-wielding rapists in Idaho Falls, after all. And Ben was sitting in jail for that exact same behavior. On top of that, Ben couldn't tell the police where he was on the night of Angie's murder.

He explained that after he left the river, he had no memory of where he went or what he did. Not good. We've got Chris, the big snowing about it, and implicating you in the offside. As to us doing it. He's got details about what happened, how you did it, and what went on. The other problem is, is you have no alibi to where you're at,

or what was going on. I will tell you, we have got DNA that will fully convict somebody while we're up for the Monday. It's going to be my abs. Can I have nothing to do with this? Confidently, Ben provided investigators with a DNA sample. Days later, when the results came back, it turned out that neither Ben Hobbs nor Chris

Tap were a match for the semen that was found on Angie's body. For detectives, this didn't necessarily mean that Ben and Chris weren't involved in Angie's murder. In fact, they were still pretty sure both of them had something to do with it. The DNA results only suggested that a third person must have also been involved. In order to get to the bottom of this, the detectives re-interviewed Chris Tapp. I mean, you've done a well-developed early half-crisp, but we're still kind of apparently we're still missing some pieces here. I think big pieces are, yeah, pretty big pieces, because like I said, the information

we just got, sounds like there's probably another person involved was there another person that went with you and Ben? No, I was just me and Ben. But you don't have a person that ever hung out with us with Jera? Okay, so could Jera have been there? During another round of questioning, Chris told the police that when he and Ben went to Angie's apartment, they weren't alone. Also with them was their close friend and fellow River Rat, 20-year-old Jeremy Sargis. Naturally, after hearing this, police wanted to speak with Jeremy. Jeremy Benhobs and Chris Tapp all knew Angie Dodge, but Chris and Ben were a little closer to her than Jeremy was. According to Chris, on the night that all three of them went to Angie's apartment,

things played out pretty much like he had originally explained. The major difference was that Jeremy was also there, and Jeremy was the one that brought along the murder weapon. And so with Jeremy, his toll involvement and his whole thing was what? Little less than what I've done. Okay, okay, go ahead and a little less than what you've done. Everything that you know that he was involved in everything probably with the knife. Okay. So I think it was his knife. Well, walking through it.

You know, and he came down and figured out what the hell all this we're doing there. What was the excuse or what was he? What was the excuse? No, what'd you say? You know, you've been through was basically what they were you doing here, attitude. Chris explained that after Angie answered the door, all three of them went inside her apartment. And after a brief argument with Ben, Ben stabbed her. Then Jeremy and Ben violently raped Angie. Now there's some pretty sick things done to her and we have a pretty dang good idea. You know what? What's some of the sick things that happen to okay? Apparently, you know, they made her do some stuff before she died, correct? So what they make her do, not even in kids, it's just fortunately sex. Okay, you saw them for sure that sex is that correct?

Okay, who Raider? Okay, so they're both doing her okay, I believe that You start Raider right both of them are doing her okay, so when one is on top of her I'm so how they rape her They're doing a vag, they do it analy. There's a little bulb. Who was doing her for behind? Chair. Chair was doing her for behind. Who was doing her in the front then? She was bad. Okay, then who's doing her in the front? Okay, Ben was doing her in the front. Okay, who tried to do the world sex? Who tried to have her give him a blowjob? Jere. Jere.

So Jere was forced to give him a blowjob. Is that correct? Okay. Do you recall any of them injecting on her? No. Okay. Chris further explained that during the rape, Ben held a knife against Angie's neck and threatened to cut her throat, unless she gave Jeremy Oral sex.

Angie complied, but Ben slit her throat anyway. Obviously, these accusations were pretty extreme. But detectives believed they had finally gotten the truth out of Chris Tap. Yet when they questioned Jeremy about it, Jeremy adamantly denied everything. I mean, Angie was not a good friend of mine. She was not anything more than acquaintance. You know, unappointing, so I know better than maybe neither. But I had no reason to have a positive or negative feeling closer. Okay, I have no reason to kill myself.

I have good rhymes and just find everybody working on the case has no doubt that you have knowledge Just find everybody working on the case has no doubt that you have knowledge The case okay, you have not come clean with Information, okay, you will be arrested For what you don't have shit. I mean you won't have to I mean I'm guaranteeing that And you're gonna arrest me as you think that I know something So you know what are you going to do? I have to find out. What are you going to do when you find out that I don't know nothing? Well, if that is true, let me go and say, we're sorry, but you know, and yeah.

Detectives pushed Jeremy pretty hard, but he never admitted to anything. And just like Ben, he freely offered up a DNA sample. A few days later, when the results came back, investigators were shocked to find that the seaman on Angie's body was not a match for Jeremy Sargis. At the same time, Jeremy's alibi for the night of the murder checked out. He was with his girlfriend the entire night and the next morning. There was simply no way that Jeremy could have been with Ben and Chris on the night of Angie's murder.

At this point, police were thinking, what the fuck? Chris Tap had seemingly let them down a path let them down a path of lies. So once again, Chris was brought in for another round of questioning. But now the cops were kind of pissed off. When they met with Chris this time, they demanded answers. They wanted the truth, but more than that, they wanted to put someone in prison for Angie's

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Dodge. Yet when detectives attempted to corroborate Chris's confession, they found that the male DNA on Angie's body didn't match any of them. On top of that, Jeremy Sarge's had a solid alibi for the night of the murder. For detectives, it was obvious that Chris Tap had lied to them, which was a violation of that sweet immunity agreement that he secured for himself. As a result, Chris' immunity agreement was dissolved and the detectives were quick to confront him about his lies.

The detectives were angry. They wanted answers. Again the unidentified male DNA that was found on Angie was not a match for Ben or Chris, but that didn't necessarily mean that they didn't in some way contribute to the murder. All it meant was that there must have been another person involved, and the detectives believe that Chris Tapp knew who that person was. First of all, more likely you never left the apartment. Second of all, there's definitely another person involved that you haven't told us about. Detectives spent several hours interrogating Chris,

but no matter how hard they pushed him, he simply wouldn't give up the name of the mysterious third man, but he did make a startling confession. Chris told detectives that he had a much more active role in the killing than he had previously admitted. According to him, Ben Hobbes and the third man Threaten Chris and forced him to stab Angie Dodge in the crime. And who does that for it? It's that what did they say to my to Chris? If he says to cut her, do something to her,

she could, I guess, they wanted me into a high water, down. Based on this confession, Chris was now considered to have an active role in the murder. And given that he was refusing to provide the name of the third killer, Chris was also considered to be uncooperative. Ultimately, Chris Tap was arrested and charged with first-degree murder and rape. As for Ben Hobbs, he received the same charges, but aside from Chris's unreliable confession, no other evidence linked Ben to Angie's murder. Eventually Ben's charges were dropped, and the only person

left holding the bag was Chris' tap. After he was charged, Chris pled not guilty, and in 1998 his case went to trial. During that trial, prosecutors maintained the theory that Chris Tapp, Ben Hobbes, and a third unidentified man raped and murdered Angie Dodge. The prosecutor is successfully convinced a jury The prosecutor is successfully convinced a jury that Chris Tapp participated in this crime, and he was convicted of rape and murder. During the sentencing phase, prosecutors asked for a death sentence, but ultimately a judge spared Chris's life. He was sentenced to 36 years to life in prison, with a chance of parole by the year 2027. Now normally after I tell you guys about a conviction and prison sentence, I give a few closing remarks, play some outro, techno music, or whatever, and then tell you to stay safe. I might remind you about plus, sign up at sword and scale.com slash plus.

But not this time because you see, the story of Angie Dodge and Chris Tapp is far from over. About 13 years after Chris Tapp was sentenced, Angie's mom made a disturbing revelation. She learned that the detectives that interrogated Chris Tap had manipulated him in ways that are almost beyond comprehension in order to coerce a confession. To understand exactly how this happened, it should be noted that the lead detective that interrogated Chris was 35-year-old Jared Furman. And Furman had met Chris Tap long before Angie Dodge was killed.

Before becoming a detective, Furman worked as a school resource officer at Chris Tap's High School, and because of that, Chris trusted Ferman. Throughout Chris's many interrogations, Detective Ferman leaned hard into that trust. I trust you, and hopefully you trust me. I'm not going to screw up, as you know. I will do everything in my power to help you. Okay? Really getting my word up.

An especially naive 20-year-old Chris Tap believed that Detective Ferman had his back. For Chris, it didn't matter what he said, because no matter what happened, a friendly police detective was in his corner. Or so he thought. The truth was, unfortunately, a much different story. I know, but okay, but there's no Buts, Chris. There's no Buts. Another thing you should know about Detective Furman is that he was blindly determined to put Ben Hobbs on trial for Angie's murder, which was a goal he had made abundantly clear while interrogating Chris Tap.

For reasons that aren't entirely clear, Detective Ferman wanted to dropkick Ben Hobbs through the goalpost posts of life. Whatever the hell, that means. But in order to do that, Detective Ferman needed Chris tap to implicate Ben in Angie's murder. Yet, when Chris was first questioned, and even though Ferman had established some trust, Chris adamantly denied having any involvement with our knowledge of Angie's murder. In watching and listening to Chris's interrogation tapes, there are plenty of reasons to believe

that Chris was telling the truth. For one, Chris didn't even know when Angie was killed. day it was. Not only did Chris not know the date of the crime, but he also didn't know how, and she was killed. That is until Detective Furman told him. I was there in the archives. Okay. I mean, okay, if you're going to kill someone, okay, kill him, but don't butcher him. You know what I mean?

He didn't know their own hair. It wasn't just, you know, stab wants or slice wants. There was a lot of aggression. Very early on, and before Chris made any admission of guilt, Chris was told that Angie was stabbed several times. With that knowledge and with the encouragement of Detective Furman, Chris made up a story. He explained that he saw Ben Hobb's stab Angie to death,

but his story had big problems. For starters, Chris didn't even know where in Angie's apartment she was killed. But once Angie got on the ground, because they got on the ground. And she went over and held the arms for she went flying. And what room was this in? The back bedroom? Or the living room still? It was living in there.

Angie was raped and murdered in her bedroom. There was no blood or any evidence of a struggle in her living room. Chris was dead wrong about where the murder happened. In fact, he didn't even know the layout of Angie's apartment because he'd never been there. A particularly interesting part of Chris' interrogation is when Chris' asked about a stairwell in Angie's apartment. We talked to you and Jerry. Jerry was talking to you and said, if there's any way I could have done it,

that stairs would have stopped right there. Now, I guess this is a question, how would you know that there were stairs in the way? Because he said something about stairs. On the street, I didn't even know him. In this clip, Chris points out that Detective Ferman told him earlier that Angie's apartment had stairs. And he was right. Ferman mentioned it well before.

Chris made any admissions of guilt. I mean, if you were there, and he told you maybe that if you were there at the bottom, admissions of guilt. If there was ever a doubt that Chris had absolutely no knowledge of Angie's apartment, it was made abundantly clear when detectives asked him to draw a top-down layout of the home. Since Chris had never been inside the apartment, he failed this test miserably. But one of the detectives was more than happy to assist Chris in getting it right.

It was the bear that there was a door. It was a whole family, there wasn't a lock-dolley. And I met there a long apartment. It was go through a talent show. This is the life that he said was on. Over the course of three weeks, Chris Tap was questioned nine times, totaling over 30 hours of interrogation, not including the seven polygraph examinations he underwent. Throughout those interrogations, the detectives repeatedly fed Chris non-public information about the crime, which included details about how Angie was killed and the layout of her home. I'm gonna show you what I'm. Chris was shown photographs of Angie's apartment and her dead body, but detectives didn't stop

there. They also drove Chris to the crime scene and showed him around. Conveniently, none of this little field trip was video or audio recorded. So we have no idea what other details the detectives shared with Chris. Needless to say, after spending many hours and days with detectives, Chris had a pretty good understanding of Angie's murder. But that's only one aspect of how the cops were able to coerce a confession out of him. Perhaps the most egregious and revolting thing that the cops did to Chris was psychologically manipulate him. I wasn't even down the book and I wasn't nowhere around I know this

Probably God I wasn't there I mean I think you sounded to me like I was there Shots down on all of us well Just like me Detective's successfully convinced Chris that his mind was playing tricks on him, and that he had repressed the memories of witnessing Angie's rape and murder. Cops are real good at gaslighting, so don't talk to him. I work on weighing into the conversation that included you and Jeremy and Dad. And I see that's my problem. I don't remember it.

It's probably because I don't want to remember it. I don't know if my pain is because I just picture myself there. You know, when you tell them the stories, I don't know if I picture myself there. Or if I was, I just don't know my, even my mind. You know, I just don't remember that. for myself there. For hours upon hours and days upon days, detectives told Chris that his mind contained memories about what happened to Angie. They encouraged him to recover those memories and more importantly, vocalize them. Okay. You better go through it. And this is part of what your recovery is. Yeah. For you to cope with this, it's tough.

It's tough. It's tough to do stuff like this. It's tough to bring it through. Yeah. Just think, think hard about it. I know us. I know it's there. You know, like I said, it's hard to tell it.

And this is the point where you have to trust us. Another aspect of psychological manipulation that Chris Tap was subjected to involved his polygraph examinations, also known as LIDE TECTOR TEST. You apologize back to your apologize back. The two questions that came out very deceptive were, another one, did you kill Angie? Not you. Okay, did you kill Angie? Chris was told and convinced that the lie detector machine could determine what memories his mind was suppressing.

In other words, if Chris said that he didn't kill Angie, and the lie detector showed that to be false, it didn't mean that Chris was lying, it only meant that Chris didn't remember it. Years later, and long after Chris was convicted of murder and sent to prison, his interrogation and polygraph examination tapes were reviewed by several retired attorneys and law professors. Unanimously, they all agreed that Chris' polygraph tests were not conducted in an effort to find the truth.

My impressions after watching the Chris' tab video of the interrogation and polygraph examinations were that one, he was never really given a polygraph test. And two, that the polygraph was used here as a psychological rubber hose in an effort to coerce a confession. In layman's terms, the lie detector tests were used as a means to manipulate Chris and convince him that the machine knew the truth better than Chris's own mind. It's almost like when they convince you that the government has a better use for your money than you do. With this manipulation in place, Chris Tap was ready to surrender and provide detectives with whatever information they wanted to hear. Those are the things that we've got to know about. And you're not going to be in any more trouble or as long as you didn't do it, is there a possibility

that you were there downstairs. You were out on the lawn, you were somewhere else. And then, if that gave you, I just don't know. I mean, if you've got to put me down to Sturgia, that's cool. Initially, Chris only admitted to being at Angie's apartment and witnessing Ben Hobbs commit the murder. But the male DNA found on Angie's body didn't match Ben or Chris. So Chris gave the cops another story and said that Jeremy Sargis was also there.

But yet again, the DNA didn't match. But the bottom line is this, Chris. The bottom line is this. I don't think so. Chris, you told us Jeremy Sargis was there. You not only told us that he was there, but he took an act of pardoning. Now we're fine and now, the Sargis probably wasn't there, and then you were screwing with us.

I'm not screwing with you. What is it, Chris? I don't know what the hell you guys want. Okay, well Sarge, just say it or not. Do you mind recollection, yes? Listen, you're the one that's providing the details. You're running the show here, not us. Okay, you're running the show, Chris.

On the contrary, Chris Tap wasn't running the show at all. The detectives were entirely responsible for the information that Chris had given them. They manipulated him into providing information that they believed to be true for whatever reason. The main problem, of course, was that it wasn't true. Not a single word of it. To that point, Detective Furman was clearly upset that Jeremy's DNA didn't match the DNA at the crime scene, and he took his frustration out on Chris. But here's the thing, Chris didn't tell Detective Ferman that Jeremy participated in the crime until after Ferman told Chris

that Jeremy was involved. Chicken or the egg? It just comes to our attention that it looks like Jair was probably more involved than it looks like he probably was there at work on you. I remember Jair being there, wouldn't I? I would think I don't ever see an American. This part of Chris' interrogation is extremely telling. Notice how he asked the detective telling. Notice how he asks the detective if he would remember that Jeremy was there. Chris is questioning his own memory because the cops convinced him that his memory was unreliable. At the same time, Chris looks for affirmation from Detective Ferman, whom he trusts to guide him to the right place.

As for Furman, before the DNA results on Jeremy Sarge's came back, he was absolutely certain that Jeremy was somehow involved in Angie's murder. The certainty is obvious throughout Jeremy's interrogation. rails. Anything? I know. I don't get right. Why do you think we have you back in here? Do you think we'd be wasting our time and wasting your time if we didn't think you're involved here? You're wasting your time embarking a throwing dream you're making up. Absolutely. You're really there. Excuse me. I'm making a fool out of myself. Yeah. Because I didn't do shit. I don't know. I'm making a fool out of myself. I think you better stand up looking at the flip and me. Yes, Detective Furman, you and all the detectives that

investigated this case had made complete fools of yourselves. But that fact, along with a lot of other facts, seemed completely lost on them. At any point during the investigation, they could have, and should have, stopped and said, hey, wait a minute, none of the DNA matches, and none of the evidence is corroborating what Chris tap is telling us. Maybe, just maybe, we are going in the wrong direction. I mean, that's the logical path to take, right? Well, unfortunately, neither Ferman nor anyone at the Idaho Falls Police Department said that.

Even when Chris Tap gave them the chance. You went from no involvement to nothing to get in my face soon. when Chris Tap gave them the chance. After Jeremy Sargis was eliminated as a suspect, the detectives remained hard-headed. They maintained their theory that Chris Tapp, Ben Hobbes, and a third unknown man were responsible for Angie's murder. So once again, they went back to Chris and demanded that he give them the name of the third man. Well, something's there because you're not giving up that other person, Chris. I would if I could, you're right.

I would. Jesus Christ I would. But I don't know, I can give you every goddamn name in the book. The facts still remain and they are facts. It's not probable cause, but it's facts. Right. Chris, you were there another person was there. I know when I'm not trying to dig your own, that you know, well you are digging. Turn out Chris, you're you're you're digging us around right now. Because I won't say the name. Yep. And my thing is your the name doesn't come to my head. No, but Chris, what more do you want? I mean, if nothing comes to my head, what can I do?

Chris, I'm trying to give you everything I can remember. What more, I mean, that's it. You know, we're not the mad guys, you're... Naturally, Chris couldn't provide the name of this third man because there was no third man. Chris continued to butt heads with detectives who were trying to get an answer that didn't exist. As a result, Angie's murder could only be pinned on one person.

Christopher Tap. Well, no different. If Chris stuck her once. No different. Well, what do you mean to this? Well, I'm still going to get what? Murderer now? Is that an accessory? Chris, Chris, what? Talk to me here.

Okay? I'm sorry, I'm saying the word. What? Let's think of the worst case. Okay? So what? What? What? What if you did it? Okay?

Other ones. Okay. Should I get other ones? Okay. Maybe I did that. I, so you should have other ones, okay? Maybe I did that. I'm sure you did. I mean, come on man. I mean, you're the heat of the moment. Just put it up the pipe, bend the screen at you. You know, your cot, you're right there in the middle.

Right? Sure you are. Sure you are. Things are just going to fast, fast and furious. You're wondering, oh my hell, what is going on? What am I doing? Chris taps last interview with Detective Ferman was on January 30th 1997. During that interview, Chris confessed to stabbing Angie Dodge. Based on that confession alone, Chris was convicted of rape and first degree murder and subsequently sent to prison. Sadly, in one of the most egregious miscarriages of justice imaginable, it was in prison that for 20 years. In June of 1996, 18-year-old Angie Dodge was found raped and murdered in her Idaho Falls apartment.

Seven months later, Idaho Falls homicide detectives coerced a false murder confession out of one of Angie's friends, 20-year-old Christopher Tap. Based on that confession, a jury convicted Chris of first-degree murder and rape. He was sentenced to 36 years to life with a chance at parole in 2027. As Chris sat in prison, the Angie Dodge murder investigation remained active and open, mainly because the male DNA found on Angie's body

had never been identified. Even so, the Idaho Falls police did put someone in prison for the murder, so the pressure to solve the crime was reduced considerably. All efforts to find out whose DNA it was moved at a snail's pace, now that they already had their killer. In fact, the Angie Dodge murder investigation probably would have died off completely, had it not been for the effort Savangie's mom, Carol Dodge, who was

constantly hounding the Idaho Falls Police Department for answers. For years, Carol Dodge believed the same theory that prosecutors presented at trial. She was convinced that Chris Tap, Ben Hobbes, She was convinced that Chris Tapp, Ben Hobbs, and an unknown third man raped and murdered her 18-year-old daughter. Carol was determined to find out who the third man was, but in 2008, she decided to sit down and watch Chris Tapp's interrogation tapes in their entirety. As she did this, Carol saw what anyone could see. Detectives manipulating a young man into giving a false confession. After reviewing the tapes, Carol wisely reached out to a law professor at Northwestern Pritzker School of Law, who happened to be an expert on false

confessions. It's the first time in my career that I had ever been contacted by a crime victim, and she asked me to evaluate the interrogation tapes of Christ's town. And when I buckle down and spend hours looking at them, I saw the least corroborated and most contaminated confession I had ever seen before. I saw a coerced confession. It was a virtual recipe for how to take a false confession. In an effort to solve her daughter's murder, Carol Dodge continued asking third-party experts for help. Several retired FBI agents and law professors

reviewed the police and autopsy reports. As this was done, it became pretty clear that the original detectives weren't only malicious when it came to conducting interrogations. They were also completely inept when it came to evaluating evidence. All of the evidence in this case points to a lone offender. The police misinterpreted this evidence, thinking they were looking for multiple offenders, but the evidence itself when viewed independently and objectively supports a

conclusion that a single offender was involved in this crime. For a decade, Idaho Falls investigators operated under the assumption that multiple people were involved in Angie's murder, but all of the crime scene evidence screamed, lone offender. In 2014, an extensive report about the Angie Dodge murder was released by Judges for Justice, a nonprofit organization that provides independent and scientific analysis for cases of alleged innocence.

While their company name leaves a lot to be desired, judges for justice is a powerhouse when it comes to crime-scene analysis. In their report about Angie Dodge, they painstakingly point out everything wrong with the way that Idaho Falls police interpreted the evidence and how the crime was almost certainly committed by just one person. From blood spatter analysis to the way Angie's body and clothes were positioned, as well as the state of her bedroom, all of it pointed to a lone offender. In their report, they wrote the following. The IFPD investigation proceeded with the predetermined conclusion that Ben Hobbes had killed Angie Dodge.

This conclusion was in error, and it was their reaction to this error which doomed the case. All evidence was evaluated through that filter, and all investigative actions reflected at bias. Based on all available evidence, it is the conclusion of judges for justice that neither Christopher Tap, nor Benjamin Hobbes, had any involvement in the murder of Angie Dodge, and that the crime was committed by a male who lived in proximity to Angie at the time of her murder. That killer likely still walks the streets. Another important detail that this report points out is that Ben Hobbes had no motive to kill Angie Dodge.

When Chris Tap gave his false confession, he claimed that Ben was angry because Angie told his wife that Ben was cheating on her. Yet, detectives knew this wasn't true. The Judges for Justice report reads as follows. On January 10, 1997, Ben Hobbs then estranged wife told Detective Jared Furman that Angie had nothing to do with their breakup. Still, Furman apparently disregarded thishand information and persisted in voicing that false motive on Chris Tap.

As all of this information was coming to light, Chris Tap's defense team was busy trying to get Chris released from prison on the basis of innocence. Their attempts were denied several times, but after years of legal battles, and with the assistance of Angie's mom, Chris finally caught a small break. In March of 2017, Chris tapped entered into an agreement with Idaho State prosecutors. The Justice Agreement is the defend grays of the charge of Cal-1 murder in the first degree of the principal and part two of the deadly weapon enhancement, most of the evasion itself shall remain in full force in the facts. A new generation of Idaho prosecutors were willing to vacate Chris Tapp's rape confession,

but they wanted to maintain the murder conviction. This meant that a judge could resettance Chris and he could be released from prison immediately on the basis of time served. If Chris accepted this agreement, he would still be considered a convicted murderer. For the state, perhaps perhaps the most important part of this agreement was that Chris would not be able to pursue any civil action against Idaho or the corrupt detectives that put him in prison. Despite all the wrong they had done to him, the state was unwilling to admit fault or be held accountable. After all, accountability is something that the state, in general, doesn't quite care for.

Even so, the prospect of being let out of prison was just too good for Chris to pass up, and he accepted the terms of the agreement. To give you a sense of how stupid our justice system can be sometimes, when Chris tap went before a judge to be resentanced, everyone in the courtroom knew that he was innocent. That judge, the prosecutors, the media, everyone, everyone knew, the victim's mom even. This is why when Angie's mom was given the chance to provide an impact statement, she spoke plainly and directed her comments at Chris. I was really angry at you and of course you were angry at me because for 13 years they programmed my mind to believe that you were part of my daughter's killing. I remember visiting you at

Pogatalla at the jail asking you what my baby's last word for. Well, did I know that you just didn't know? It took me 13 years, Chris, to read over and over and over again and watch the videotapes of your interrogation. They're long. You can hardly hear them. You're agonizing. They're disgusting. Angie's mom is right. The interrogation of Chris Tap was and is disgusting. We watched all 30 plus hours of it, along with Chris' polygraph examinations. I encourage you to do so yourself.

It's pretty obvious. To see detectives twist and manipulate a young man into admitting to something he clearly didn't do is revolting in it of itself. But it also completely dismantles the purpose of a justice system to begin with. Given how many people needed to be involved, the fact that this case was ever even presented to a jury should scare the hell out of you. Granted, in 1998, coerce confessions weren't quite as well understood as they are today, but even so, this is not a situation of hindsight being 2020. Anyone with even a basic level of education can watch the interrogation tapes and see

what's going on. It's plain as day. For over a decade, Angie's mom was basically brainwashed into thinking Chris tap raped and stabbed her daughter yet She Saw it right away But what I wanted to know is how a layperson How a crime victim

could look at these tapes and see all the problems with these tapes. How could she see that and the police officers not see all of these bombs? These police officers were stuck in the Chris tab of the box and they couldn't get out of it. Even though DNA evidence excluded Christap and excluded every single person that he named, they were stuck in that box. So what I wanna see happen is, in cases like this, before trial, when you have a confession

and you have DNA evidence, it excludes the person who confesses. Police officers need to stop and not charge that person and continue investigating because had they done so, perhaps they might have found the person who actually committed this crime. Given how obviously coerced Chris's confession was, it's hard to believe that detectives didn't know exactly what they were doing. But let's say we give them the benefit of the doubt. Let's say that they were so swept up

by the prospect that Ben Hobbes and Chris Tap were involved in this crime, that they just couldn't see beyond that theory. Let's say that they were not trying to pin a murder on someone that they thought or even knew was innocent. That's not exactly a glowing endorsement of the caliber of people that work for the Idaho Police Department. They were either being completely malicious and trying to put an innocent man in prison just to close out a high-profile murder case that was on their desk, or they are mind-nummingly incompetent when it comes to investigating crime. But hey, why pick one when you can have both? They're not mutually exclusive, after all. The government can be both malicious and stupid, in case you haven't noticed.

What seems to have happened here is that the Idaho Falls detectives completely bungled the Angie Dodge murder investigation. At some point they probably realized that they screwed up, but then they were already way too deep and felt they couldn't turn back and still save face. Maybe they had career aspirations they didn't want to screw up. Who knows? Maybe they didn't want to admit they were wrong. A lot of us don't. In fact, for some it's the hardest possible thing you can ask them to do.

Maybe they were just blinded by the anger at the idea that Chris Tapp had lied to them. Whatever the reason, at some point these detectives likely made a conscious decision to put an innocent man on trial for murder. Speaking of those detectives, all of them were conspicuous by their absence at Chris Tapp's recentencing hearing. This was not only a slap in the face to Chris, but also a clear indication that they had no interest in seeing that Angie Dodge got justice, or that Angie's mom got answers about the identity, the true a labor note who he is. I don't know that he's alive. I don't know where he's at. I can tell you to just spend one hell of a journey. And I have turned every couple of areas.

And I've said, and I don't see any of the... I don't fall asleep, please, I don't follow the police department here. Representing my daughter, saying that they'll help me find justice. I was so sad. For Angie's mom, the agonizing pursuit to find her daughter's real killer, dragged on. Can you imagine the pain, the frustration, in dealing with this inefficient inadequate system, how small you would feel against it, as a victim's mother, and how much of your entire psyche becomes

consumed with finding justice for the death of this person that you truly love. Despite this sad reality, Chris Taps' resettancing hearing did have somewhat of a happy ending. On March 22nd, 2017, after spending 20 years in prison for a crime he did not commit, a judge released Chris Taps. Even though he was still considered a convicted killer, Chris became a free man. You are receiving credit by order of this court for all the time served today, up to today. With the intent that you be released from custody today. Your sentence having been completed or satisfied. We are off the record and have one's excuse. After Chris was released, he gave an interview to East Idaho News, which helped shed some light on why someone might confess to a crime,

they did not commit. One of the officers that was involved in all my interrogations and everything else was Jared Furman. He was my resource officer as a junior high. So I built a rapport with the man. And so he worked that rapport that we've built over the years as a point where I could trust him. know it's okay we're gonna help you and it's alright if you did this it's alright if you did that it's okay we can

work through this so and I got brought up you know my mother my father taught me you know trust the police they're not gonna lie to you they're not gonna screw you so I went with that but you spent hours upon hours inside of a interrogation. I mean, you just start wanting to get away from the polities because you want to go home. When the DNA came back and it cleared me in bed, back then, they had a chance to stop it, but they just pushed me in a different direction to implicate somebody else. At this point, everyone familiar with the Angie Dodge case knew that Chris Tapp was innocent,

which is why the reporter asked Chris if he had anything to say to Angie's real killer. And if that murder is still alive, what would you say to them? I think John said the best today they released me. There's a bounty on his head. They're all coming time, if individuals alive, that he will be brought to justice." While Chris' long and hard-fought legal battles to get out of prison had finally come to an end, the search for Angie was murdered, that search came to an end. Thanks to advancements in DNA testing, a new generation of Idaho homicide detectives were finally able to identify the man that killed Angie Dodge.

Unbelievable, isn't it? In 1996, when Angie Dodge was killed, the murderer lived right across the street from her, and he had no alibi for the night of the crime. Yet the original investigators didn't think to question him further or take a DNA sample from him. I guess it's kind of hard to properly investigate a murder when you're too busy putting an innocent man in prison. In 2019 genealogical DNA testing was used to identify distant relatives of Angie's killer. This process led investigators to a suspect. That suspect was 53-year-old Brian Lee Drypps, who again lived right across the fucking

street from Angie when she was killed. After Brian became a suspect, Idaho investigators surveilled him for about a week before snatching up a cigarette but that he tossed onto some pavement. When the cigarette was tested for DNA, it came back as a match. The seaman found on Angie's dead body belonged to Brian Dripps. Soon after this realization was made,

Brian was taken into police custody and questioned. But this was something that took place years and years ago, and it was when you were living in Adolf Hall, you get off Hall area. It was a pretty major case on that. The only thing I can think of is that word of case. The only thing I can think of that happened when I was living there. Yeah.

So, those were you remember about that? Well, I was asked what I knew about it back then. Yeah. And I don't remember much because, you know, from whatever I remember that night was we were drinking, I was drinking with my buddies and until the cops had died We got told we called the camp for my buddy Can't can't do the video because I'm passing out at the hotel

At the end of this interrogation the cops didn't reveal that they had already matched Brian's DNA to Angie's murder. And Brian maintained the same story that he had given the police over 20 years before this interview. As expected when the investigators asked Brian for a DNA sample, he was reluctant to give it up. We would like to get a sample from you, a bottle swab or a DNA sample, and something you'd be willing to do. It's really uncertain.

It is a lot of data going on in the audience. I just don't like the simple fact that my DNA will be in some database. Is there a reason you're swimming to be honest with me? How? Is there a reason you're semen with the onsen? No. So you just can be completely shocked if we had your DNA at the scene.

Yep. We had your DNA at the scene. After Brian was made aware that the cops had him dead to rights, it didn't take long for him to come clean and confess to raping and murdering 18-year-old Angie Dodge in June of 1996. I thought, she had an island. We didn't even much shit have it. Cause I was almost a uncultured control. But you said you just went there, Raper? Yep.

Where was your plan? Didn't have one. I had to get in. And just walk through the door. And I'll lay out of the house. I can tell you, I don't remember what I was upstairs. You remember what? I had to walk up to upstairs.

I had to walk up to upstairs. And I walked up to upstairs. And there it is. Corroboration. Brian knew that Angie's apartment had stairs, and nobody needed to tell him beforehand. At the time of Angie's murder, Brian drips was 30 years old and was in the middle of a divorce. He claimed that he was drunk and high on cocaine when he went to Angie's apartment and that

he never intended to kill her. His only goal was to rape her. What did you use? A knife. What? This guy that you? Just a knife. A buff knife? Did you have a knife out?

Also. Yeah. You're hoping that one. The one that was Peter Combs, which I, I could just do the thing. How did you take off her clothes? Well, I'm here and I just hold it in my hands. Where did you get your knee? In her outside, her, her head, I thought, I think that's what made him jump.

According to Brian, as he was raping Angie, she fought back, which led Brian to stabbing her several times and slitting her throat. This account was consistent with the crime scene and quite different than the original theory that three men had raped and murdered Angie. For your foster child, I do what the other conviction that we have in this case. So, I don't know, I don't really don't know what to do. You know, I guess I didn't know what started into it. Apparently Brian was pretty indifferent about Chris Taps' confession, and he didn't

really care that an innocent person went to prison for a crime he committed. To do so would have meant that he had a conscience, which not a lot of rapist slash murderers do. At the same time, he obviously didn't care that Angie's mom and the rest of her family were painfully and desperately searching for answers. Mr. Dress is the definition of evil. He never wanted to confess his crimes to this court searching for answers. Watch another man do it due time for a crime that only Mr. Trips committed. He lived his life in Cap-Syland, about Angie's murder for those 23 years.

He went on vacation with his family, got to enjoy time with his children, his mother, his stepfather, his other family members and friends. So what does that tell us? That every day for 23 years, he got to enjoy that time, enjoy those special events, knowing that there was a family, suffer, that there was a family, the Dodge family,

who did not have the truth, because the truth remained hidden and signed in Mr. Drip's. To avoid a potential death sentence, Brian Drip's pled guilty to Angie's rape and murder in February of 2021. Later that year, he was sentenced to 20 years to life, and he will almost certainly die behind bars. With Brian drips locked up, the search to find Angie's real killer had finally reached an end.

But the story of Chris Tap continued. After Brian was arrested, the Idaho Falls Police Department threw themselves a little celebratory press release, and it just so happened that Chris Tapp was in attendance. Concentrously, one of the news reporters put the police department on the spot and asked just the right question. That would be a question for a couple weeks from now. So what we're doing today is it's going to be... not going to be...

Naturally the police wanted to focus on their accomplishments, not their failings. But with Brian Dripps having confessed, the state could no longer uphold Chris's murder conviction. In July of 2019, a court hearing was held that led to Chris Tapp finally being exonerated. Based upon that, under our own rules, we're going to move to this list. We're going to vacate the jury verdict and move to this list that case. Staff, as far as the court has concerned, we're going to have an innocent convention. It's a pretty good question.

That's a use of DNA. Of those 367 people, 102 of them gave the police a false confession. Almost one in three to one in four people would lie about being involved in a crime. As hard as it is to wrap your mind around someone admitting to a crime they didn't commit, it does happen. In fact, it seems to happen quite a lot. It's not exactly uncommon. At Chris' exoneration hearing, one of his defense attorneys pointed out how easy it is for

something like this to happen. You know, the tactics that police use during interrogations are psychologically coercive. Police are allowed to lie to people they're interrogating and say, we have your fingerprints, you know, we have DNA at the scene. And innocent people think great. As soon as they do testing, they're gonna see that I didn't do it. This interrogation is so stressful. If I tell them what they want to hear now,

then I can put an end to it, and then I'll be cleared when they do further investigation. But once you make an admission, that further investigation never comes. After being exonerated, Chris Tapp stood on the steps of the same courthouse where he was wrongfully convicted of murder and gave a brief statement. I hope that things get learned from this mistake and I hope things get changed and things get better, but there's never another mistake like this ever happened to the skin in this community or in this state.

Chris Tap has hope that what happened to him will never happen to anyone else. But the truth is it has already happened. Angie Dodge was murdered in 1996, the tactics that police used to coerce Chris into giving a false confession have been used for decades and are still commonly used throughout the country. If Chris's wrongful conviction tells us nothing else, the one thing it makes perfectly clear is that we desperately need reform when it comes to the way that the police conduct interrogations. As listeners of Sword and Scale,

you already knew that cops are allowed to lie to you and that it's illegal for you to lie to them. But why is that? Why is the citizen held to a higher standard than the cop who is policing them? It's a good question. For authorities, lies are a means to manipulate, which should probably not be allowed, especially in a murder investigation. I don't know, what do you think? Tell us your thoughts in the comments. We've got to eliminate deception in the interrogation row

and other psychologically coercive techniques using false evidence, threats of consequences, and there are alternative investigative techniques that can be used. And so we hope that Chris' case is not in vain, and it's a moment that we can learn from and enact reforms to really make sure that this doesn't happen to somebody else, and we don't have to wait to decadate for the next technology to come out. Granted, putting restrictions on or making reforms to police interrogations could make it

harder for police to solve crimes. It could make an important and difficult job even more difficult. If you oppose the idea of police interrogation reform, that's fine. As a true crime podcaster and someone that covers hundreds of stories of murder, I can certainly understand why someone would take that position. But if you do take that position, then you also have to admit that you think putting guilty people in prison is more important than keeping innocent people out of prison. And that's using a word I hate problematic for a number of reasons.

With regard to wrongful convictions, there is another question worth asking. Where is the accountability? As a result of Chris' tap's case, Idaho Falls has agreed to pay Chris $11.7 million. Chris undoubtedly deserves every penny of that money. But here's the thing. That money isn't coming from the cops or prosecutors that put them in prison. It's not coming from their pensions or their retirement funds. It's coming from you, the taxpayer, specifically the Idaho taxpayer. You are funding these peoples and competence.

Congratulations. Don't forget to vote. In America, we have laws on our books that make it illegal for a person to accidentally kill someone. It's called manslaughter. Shouldn't there also be criminal laws against, quote, unquote, accidentally sending an innocent person to prison? Robbing them of their freedoms, and ruining their life. I'm not saying we should burn cops and prosecutors at the stake. I mean, some of you may think that, but that's not what I'm saying.

But it's not unreasonable to suggest that when they make mistakes, they should be held accountable. Isn't being held accountable what they do to us? Shouldn't their punishment be proportionate to the damage that they cost? Speaking of, Chris Tap currently has pending civil litigation against all of the detectives that were involved in his interrogations and polygraph exams. As for Detective Jared Furman, he will never be held accountable. After Chris Tap was sent to prison, Furman rose to the rank of Lieutenant, and in 2006 he was elected as the mayor of Idaho Falls. He served two terms before being diagnosed with Alzheimer's, and in May of 2022, the disease

killed him. He was 60. Jared Furman was a father to eight children and a grandfather to 17 children. And I'm sure that throughout his life as a parent to cop a mayor, he did some noble things, some good things for the people of Idaho Falls. But his legacy will always and should always be tainted by the fact that he sent an innocent man to prison for 20 years. As of March 2023, there are about 2.3 million people in prison in America. And if you take a conservative estimate and say that we only get it wrong one percent of the time, that means that 23,000 people are in prison right now for crimes they did not commit. In other words,

we know that there are many more Chris taps out there, and we know that our justice system is rife with injustice. It's important for us to look at Chris' case and others like it. It's important to learn from them and use them to make changes. It's important that we demand a better system of justice because if we don't, it's not out of the realm of possibility that injustice could someday find us or someone that we love. Now it's going to do it for another episode. Thank you for joining us. If you're a plus member, well,

if you're not first of all, go be a plus member. Go to sordanscale.com slash plus. But if you are a plus member and you're in one of the higher tiers, $25 and up, we may have something coming your way pretty soon. So make sure you log in to sordanscale.com slash plus and that you make sure that you update your address so we can send you your stuff. See ya! Hey Mike, I'm a 911's dispatcher I just want to say, go fuck yourself. Just kidding. Actually, I am a 911 dispatcher.

I love your show. I love that you call out cities dispatchers on their bullshit. I actually reference your show all the time when I'm training new hires on everything not to do when they are handling a Emergency call keep off the great work keep playing the audio keep calling us out on our shit when we don't do our job Thanks for everything you do 1.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5-2.5- I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man