Swords, Sorcery, and Socialism - 2 Year Review

Episode Date: September 25, 2023

It's been 2 years since we started the pod, so we wanted to take a quick look back at what we've learned, and talk about what's coming up in the future. A heartfelt thank you to everyone who listens and has stuck with us. You're the best.patreon.com/swordsandsocialismEmail: [e-mail] The Show: @SwordsNSocPodAsha: @Herbo_AnarchistKetho: @MusicalPuma69

Music Hello everyone and welcome back to Sword, Disorcery and Socialism. Podcasts about the politics and themes, in her genre, fiction is always a mushroom dream about my co-host, Ketho has a go in. Howdy. Today, we are celebrating our two year anniversary. Well, it's technically a little a couple weeks late because the two year anniversary episode

was when they came out. Last time, with the interview with Dr. Sarah Brown, which we're still talking about because of how fucking good it was. I love her and I want her to come back. I mean, she said she would, so we'll probably have her back. We'll have to pick a really good book for it though. You know, we'll pick probably a Laguin. I feel like.

We'll probably have her back for Laguin. But this is our two year end of calling this the two year review. Because what we want to talk about today is well we're preparing sort of a new theme so we want to take some more time to get some books read so this episode is sort of a review but so what we've learned what have we learned about ourselves about books about themes over these can you believe two years of doing this podcast? Yeah, Holy moly. Two years.

So it's been like two years and three or four months since I randomly DMed you on Twitter and said, hey, you want to be on a podcast? You and I are often talking about LaGuin on Twitter. Do you want to be on a show with me? I was like, yes. I wish more people in like reality would just do that. Like, I'm just going to be honest. To anyone out there listening, if there's something you want to do, just, and you need another person to do it, just fucking ask.

Just ask. Literally. Again, it is not a joke. Like we were mutuals on Twitter, but didn't interact that much. Yeah, no, it wasn't like you were like constantly. No, we just a few times. And like we had both been in a few of the same threads talking about Laguin and Communalism. Just some of the same threads on Twitter. And then I was just like you talk about like when a lot do you want to be in a podcast with me just just random shot DM and this is again you should do this in real life the episode that would came out before this one with Dr. Sara Brown who's a chair of a department at a university she came on this

podcast because I just sent her a DM on Twitter and said, Hey, I like your work Do you want to be on my podcast? And she said of course That's it. That's all it takes What's the worst thing someone's gonna say no no and you're like okay? Okay, the Jeremy University doesn't want to be on my my little podcast that makes sense or I mean honestly really what usually happens is instead of saying no, someone just doesn't say anything at all. They just never respond. And you know what? Oh, well, if if the

worst thing that happens is getting ghosted on a shot in the dark, you're doing fine. So, you know, over two years on, for me sending a random DM to Ketho here. And you know, over two years on, from me sending a random DM to Ketho here, and you know, a few changes of some things later, here we are. Two years in, now let's talk, I wanna talk about again, like things we've learned, things we still remember, things we still think about. Let's start with, I think, an easy one,

or an easy one, I think, to answer, of all of all the books you read if you can even remember because we're up right now. Oh do you have the list so I can hold it up. I've got I'm just looking at the entire thing of them on Spotify. Oh yeah literally I have I think I have them up on yeah on like the hosting. Okay, so which we are looking at, I don't know, around 50 books, ish, a little bit less,

because a lot of the episodes were doubles or whatever, of all the books, which book or two, which story or two, do you still think about the most? Do you just like pop up into your head? Like not when we're recording episodes necessarily as a reference, but just like in your day to day life of the books you've read, which ones do you still just think about?

Hmm. Well scrolling through the first one will not come as a surprise because we've mentioned it before, but I'm gonna pick another one as well because this one has been mentioned too many times. I can't call for Leib it comes up in my head probably once a week. Yep, I would agree with that one. That one for sure. That one definitely. I will say that I think from me, least recently, weirdly, the book I've been thinking about the most remember doing is the black company. I've been thinking about the black company a lot and partly because I legitimately like the world building and the magic system of the black company. It's very vibe-based. It's very vibe-based. I love how it's set up. I, if you're on our Patreon, I released a small section of my own writing for the fantasy

story that I am working on in my free time because why not? And I might as well put all my criticisms of other books to the test by trying my hand myself, you know? And I say, I find a lot of inspiration in the way the magic system works in the black company, which gives you an idea of what kind of magic I like, which is... Bives based magic. Bives based magic.

Soft magic systems. Very vise based. How does it work? Don't fucking worry about it, okay? It just happens. There are some rules. There's limitations. There's danger. But don't worry about it, okay? It just happens. There are some rules, there's limitations, there's danger, but don't worry about it that much. And I just, I think about the Black Company, I love the world building, they're like working for the bad guy, kind of, yes, but also no, but also yes, the rebellion among the powerful users against the emperor. Oh, I, yes, so I still think about the black company all the time. And even more now that I'm trying

to write my own story, I'm thinking about that a lot. I think, I think it comes up in my head think I'm still kind of shaken by, first off, the major differences between the movie and the manga, but also the way that the manga still explores the same ideas. It just kind of blows my mind that something so, it's kind of schlocky the manga, it's kind of goofy, it's kind of, it's more goofy than the anime. Yeah, it's almost more like an action romp and it's silly.

But the tanks talking to each other is definitely like a but but it's it's covering the same extremely esoteric like ground and it sticks out as probably did we come to the conclusion it was the best thing we read for cyberpunk month or was that Acura? I think I said I think I know it was my favorite thing we read for cyberpunk month. I definitely liked it the best I think it definitely was my favorite thing we read for Cyberpunk Month. I definitely liked it the best. Because I still think my take on Snowcrash is not in accordance with the popular opinion on Snowcrash. So I can't like...

I think we'll come back. We'll come back. I'll talk about that later. It's either Ghost in the Shell for me or the fifth season. It's a. Ooh. Yeah. Well, we'll come back. So yeah, definitely. I still do occasionally think of the phrase. What happens when you ship of theses yourself? Like I think of that phrase. Pretty regularly. I'm just something that which something that came from the Ghost

and the Shell episode. I'm just so excited about, I don't know. That episode we talk about actual philosophers and we feel like. There is one of our more, I think, like definitively like what we call it, theory, heavy sort of cerebral episodes, I think. I love it.

I love it. It's really good. We do occasionally have good ideas or yeah from time to time The last time the last time I think I felt that good about an episode like that where I was like that speak content was The omeloss episode Yeah, omeloss is definitely one of our most like we are going to drill down in some fucking theory Yeah, we were like we were like this is what nihilist anarchism is and this is what like like all this other shit

It just felt very heavy and it was yeah, it's definitely only heavier size You need you need a you need a big meaty punch Yeah, it's definitely only heavier size. You need a big meaty punch. There is one other one in there. It was a big meaty punch for the thing is it didn't come mostly from us. It came from our guest, which is the Berserk episode. Oh, Berserk. In which our guest brought the fucking sledgehammer of,

here are the themes, here are the politics, here's the philosophy, here's the like influences. And I'll be honest, that episode was so heavy and so long Here's the politics, here's the philosophy, here's the like influences. And I'll be honest, that episode was so heavy and so long that like I blacked a lot of it out. It's like, I can't even remember it. I can't even remember all of it. I would say that one was one, I get another one of our very theory heavy ones, but I don't

want to claim that one because most of that work came from our guest. It was Brendan of Sar Power Pod. You should follow Zara Power Pod. It's a good podcast about the history of Russia. But Brendan really brought the heat for that one. So those are the ones I think I was like, you know, we have come up a lot. We can switch to like, I don't know haters dance quick of all the of everything we've read What was what's the worst?

What's the worst thing we've read or the thing you maybe not the worst but the thing you hated the most that when you got when we got done with it You're like Fuck this book. Oh starship troopers. That was that's so easy for me this fucking starch Like I would say Something like snow crash, but like I think I Later under a different top different category, but I took Starship troopers and wanted to tear that thing in half mostly because I most because I just sit there and I think There are too many people praising this book. And it...

Yes. It's absurd. There shouldn't be a single human being praising that book. It is a mess. Aside from like literal Nazis. Like if you're a literal fascist, I expect you to praise that book, but that's it. In a just world, no one would like that book. Correct. Correct. It in a just world no one would like that book correct

Correct just and anyone who's like it's satire. It's not you No, it is not it's literally 100% what Heinlein thinks should be real and the people think it's satire Or people have only watched the movie and don't realize that the movie was made to be satire the book was not It's like anyone who tries to claim that Heinlein wasn't 100% just writing off the back of what he thought an ideal society would look like is smoking crack. Like that is one of the most prostalatized books ever and my favorite novel is The Dispossessed. Which is another prostalatized one, but for very different reasons. So it's like, I understand proselytizing when I see it. Yes.

But it's proselytizing in the worst way. I would say I do probably have to agree, Starship Fruits is definitely the worst thing we've read. Because I try not to have us read things that I hate. Well, yeah, because I don't like reading things that I hate I really think that hate and this podcast is for fun I don't want to read things I hate But it felt like it was too important for us not to talk about and I think that's true It's to it was starship troopers is too foundational to sci-fi for us not to talk about it But does I yeah, I definitely didn't like it. It's still, well, it's

poorly written too. It's not even written well. Do you think there's any other fully foundation? Well, you know, we'll ask that question after this, but... I mean, we can do that question now. Like, what do you say? What do you think other foundational works that we'll hate? That we have to read, that we're kind of dreading reading. And I don't know. I've heard some whacked stuff about foundation. Yeah, but I don't know enough about it to dread it. Yeah. The only thing I sort of worry about with foundation,

with foundation is like how old it is, that it might be harder to read just because things were written differently. You know what I mean? Like writing has evolved over time. Like does anything give you the shivers the way that that Starship Fruppers already kind of, the HBGBs. The HBGB is like, oh God, we're gonna have to talk about it

and I'm dreading it. Well, we already just like said off the bat that we're like, there's certain things that we're like there's certain things that we're just not going to cover. And those are some of the ones I like, I mean, I think I'm like, I'm not talking, we did an episode about how much we hate JK Rowling. I'm never talking about the Harry Potter books like I'm just not going to. That's perfectly fine.

So like they're not foundational. That retrospective gave me the heebie Gb's, but like we're we already covered that those we're not doing that. But we ever have to cover Ender's game. That was my first my actual first thought was a book that I did that I have trepidation about feeling like we need to talk about that I really don't want to. Well, I've heard I've heard that the book actually has relatively positive politics. It's just that the author doesn't. It's hard for me to believe that an author

as terrible as that could write a book that is free from his terrible politics. Does that make sense? I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be free from it, but it's certainly not going to is from what I understand. It's not as egregious as something like Starship Troopers. Yeah, well, yeah, it's not like the point of the book, I guess, but it does... That does worry me. So I have trepidation about covering Ender's Game. Trying to think other things that I might be like, we should probably talk about, but

I really don't want to. I literally have to pull up like list of foundational more Robert Heinlein. I'm not now, fuck that. We're it's weird because in FANTASY. My mind immediately goes to sci fi. I can't think of any foundational fantasy books that I'm scared of reading. Yeah.

Does that make sense? Does that? Does that Is that illogical? It's not illogical because I feel like fascists make a big talk about rejecting modernity, return to tradition, yada, yada, yada, yada. But at the same time fascism is a holy modern thing. And also some of the early fascists were actually all futurists. Like the Italian fascists were all futurists.

They were in obsession with... What the fuck was his name? You know, the first, that poet, the Italian poet who basically invented fascism, what the fuck is he called? Like he was a futurist. Like he was all about like turning the human and the nation into a machine into an effective like efficient Machine there's there is an obsession with industrialism and obsession with capitalism Yeah, an obsession with that

That's kind of incompatible with Not incompatible with fantasy. There's definitely fantasy. This got fascist tendencies in it But which which we're shout out to Which shout out to Michael Morkock. But I think it's harder just because when you look at fantasy, fantasy is often a lens of the past. It's using the past to sort of talk about the modern sort of. Whereas sci-fi leans towards speculation in the future, and that leads to a lot of, at least, even just through the experience of this podcast, a lot more direct political messaging, a lot more overt ideology that is intended to be there. Yeah, like sci-fi tends to have more like,

this is the political message in it, you know. And I think a lot of times fantasy isn't, it might usually be looking at the present through the lens of the past, but I don't think it's intending to, nor trying to like 95% of the time. I feel like 95% of the time, but I don't think it's intending to, or trying to, like, 95% of the time. I feel like 95% of the time, a lot of fantasy just thinks, ooh, dragon cool. I put dragon in story, whereas I think a lot of sci-fi is very intentionally directed

in its political messaging, and its attempts to, like, compare modernity to this other dystopic thing. I think that's the two sides of our court. When we talk about the politics, both intentional and unintentional, where fantasy, the politics tend to be more unintentional, unless you're N.K. Jameson. Yeah. Or, well, Tolkien. Unless you're one of those two,

I mean, or C.S. Lewis, I mean, there's, but I'll see us. Lewis is, I wouldn't even call his. This isn't even political. It's theological. It's, which, yes, that's, it's very difficult to separate the two with that. Politics, but it's, it's it's it's he's not like Here's how I want you to structure society. He's just like do you know about Jesus?

Talk about proselytizing in the most liquorous sense cross literally whereas yeah, sci-fi is more like This is the political message. I'm trying to get across about the society that we live in And so I think when it's like, what do I not want to read? There's, I worry more about sci-fi books. Now, I'm looking through, you know, some stupid list of like, not sci-fi books at all time or whatever, right? Just to help remind me, there are some that I want to say, I'm going to be maybe controversial here. I'm not saying they're bad, but because of what they are, I am hesitant to want to have to read and talk about them for the podcast. Does that make sense? Like not because I think I'm going

to hate them or the content, but like, for one reason or another, I just don't really wanna have to read and talk about them. My first one might be controversial. I don't wanna do Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I don't wanna- That's not your vibe though. It's like I- I don't wanna do it.

You weren't really that into Discworld and- No, even the stuff we talked about. It took me till like the end of the second Discworld and... No. Even the stuff we talked about. It took me till like the end of the second Discworld book to be like, oh, okay. And Hitchhiker's Guide is that same vibe, but with science fiction. It's like, we're being silly and I'm dying. It's just not that vibe. I do. I'm not going to touch my computer because if I touch my computer. It'll yeah self-destruct. I do have the complete hitchhikers guide that I bought in New York for

three dollars in a used bookstore. I want to be clear. If you if you ever want to do hitchhikers guide, you ever want to do hitchhikers guide, you can 100% get a guest and you can talk about it. Does that make sense? Yeah. Hey listen, you had to do that with Wheel of Time because I just didn't have the time to read. Yeah, I did the Wheel of Time, both of that. If you want to do hitchhikers guide with somebody else, go for it. I'm not going to do it.

Because again, that's just not my vibe. I'm not into the silly. I'm not going to do it. Because again, that's just not my vibe. I'm not into the silly. I'm simply not. Looking through this list, other ones that I don't talk about, I'm looking at some list of like best-safed books all the time. We're not talking about the Moon is a harsh mistress. We already said I'm not reading any more high in line. That's, hey, okay with me.

I have stranger in a strange land on my shelf, but it's mostly that it'll look pretty because it has a very pretty spine. Yeah, it looks cool. Not gonna read it I say well there's a couple other ones I hear that I saw that I'm like, I don't really feel like talking about Not doing brave new world. There's one that's like one that's foundational, but I don't want to talk about is brave new world It's done to death. I'm not gonna say say anything about Brave New World that somebody else hasn't said. There's no reason to talk about the stuff that's bred in school. When we, when we, when we cover canicle for Leibwood, because nobody else has read it, we think it's fun. Well, obviously other people have read it. It's also on this

list, but you know what I mean? Like, I'm not going to talk about 1984. I'm not talking about Brave New World. You want to hear us talk about that useless in the orpah sod with the zara power guys uh... we're talking about we by you've get me whatever's name was uh... uh... guinea nevermind uh... you can use them yorken zimgat and usually sent that one because it's basically the same story but

written before both of them and from the soviet union but i'm not reading 1984. That's one that I would like, I would have trepidation about doing is 1984 because so many people have strong opinions about it for all the wrong reasons. And I think everyone's opinions on it are wrong. So.

You know, it's right here and right below it. Are those two books? 1984 Brave New World. Oh god, damn it. This is my, the middle shelf here is my classics shelf. So it's got the complete works of William Shakespeare and then all the books I read in school. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I think that's not what one's like I don't, I think that's when it says what do you not want to do? It's that sort of stuff. I don't want to do? It's that sort of stuff.

I don't want to do that stuff. There are also other books that I are specifically in sci-fi that like, I know are good, but the way I hear other people talk about them is that they seem so like, what I call like cerebral and like, heady, that like, I'm hesitant to do it because I have a small brain. Is that like, is it, what's the most cold?

Like, like, city in the city by Chinamellville. Oh, come on, I really wanna read that. So we probably going to, but like, Chinamellville books tend to get into that like, you know what I'm talking about? A lot of people compare Perdido Street Station to Dune. Sure. I believe you. But you know what I'm talking about?

There are certain ones where they're like so like, cerebral about it that like, it feels like it would be a chore to get through them. Just like, like you mentioned the city and the city, and that's pretty cerebral, and it's cerebral for the same reasons that disco elizium is cerebral. Which I have also reason that you haven't played disco elizium.

I made it like I made it 15 minutes into disco elizium and stop playing. Cause it was like listen to your limbic system arguing with your reptilian brain. No, it confused me. This is an admission for all of you podcasts listeners. tried, I started playing Disco Elysium, and I got confused, infrustrated, and I gave up. If you need to know anything about me, before this, we were talking about D&D right before this, and we're probably gonna record a bonus episode

about D&D after this, when I play a D&D, I play my classes that I pick are in order, Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, and Warlock. Those are my classes because all of them are essentially one button classes. That's what I do. Oh, don't you want to play a wizard to do these cool combination of spells? No. It doesn't even do cool combination of spells. You just blast somebody with some brain nonsense. I just want to hit somebody. If you've been, if you follow me on Twitter, you'll see me tweeting recently about the fact that I'm going to join a class where they teach you how to fight with a long sword like you're a medieval knight. Because that to me is cool. So in like, do you want to read this book that's purely cerebral

or play this game? There's all about your limbic system talking to your ulterior brain about whether you've, or psychoanalyzing yourself correctly. You don't want a big fasmid. I don't know to tell you about how the world is ending and it's your fault. No! It's humanity's fault that the universe is becoming a nihilistic hellhole. There we've finally answered the question of what am I hesitant to cover on the podcast? It's disco-aleeasy. It's literally my favorite game. Welcome listeners to the big divide among your podcast hosts. Yes. Hold on, there's a there's a sci-fi novel that that I know I really want to talk about at some point. Well that can be out. I was going to make that the next question is what is something that like you know you really want to talk about and you're really looking forward to covering in the future

Like Hit me with one we are like I cannot I know we're gonna. I'm gonna make us talk about this book I can't wait to talk about it What's one of those for you? Well, I am scrolling through Well, I can tell you well, but why are you looking for it? I can say, I think I can go for the both of us and say, left hand of darkness. Oh, yeah, that'll be a big one. That'll be enormous.

That's going to be an enormous one. Actually, can I, ooh, hot take. I think the dispossessed is one that I'm hesitant to talk about. Well, because there are definitely things in there that I would be like, this is not what I would see in my anarchist utopia. My anarchist utopia, and I think because it is the Gwen's most proselytizing work, I think it's going to be kind of,

it's going to be more difficult and a little more touchy to try and like analyze, because there's things about it I actually, like you said, I kind of don't like actually. Well, I mean, we I actually, like you said, I kinda don't like actually. Well, I mean, we're like, we're gonna read left handed. We're gonna read left handed darkness and it's gonna be just me,

it's just gonna be all of us talking about how much we love everything that's happening the whole time. Oh yeah, yeah, there's no weird sexual assault in the middle of the book. There's no. Actually, a clear moment of consent and deciding not to. Yeah, there's a. Let me, we've already talked about the one,

the one negative takeaway from left hand, which Lugwin herself addressed, which is that everyone uses mail pronouns. Like that's it. Yeah. And so, so yes, so left hand, I think is for both of us, can't wait to get to it. What's the other one? What's the other one? Well, the one that I managed to find that I have wanted to read for a long time because

a very stupid but very, very cool, I say cool, he's not cool at all, critic that I really appreciate, mostly for his very subversive takes about literally everything. I'm almost, I'm almost I'm going to cringe just saying his name that I even liked him that much. Is it super eyepatch wolf? No, no, this is a, this is a more online guy. Less, less online guy. Sorry. Um, his name is Piero Scroofi. I never heard of him. Yeah, I'm still deeply internally cringing. Super Eye Patch Wolf, I still like. I just know the name.

I've also never watched anything Super Eye Patch Wolf. He's pretty legit actually. He does really good video essays on JoJo. All right. But I remember this being on the top of his list of best science fiction novels and I was like, okay, listen, whatever this man thinks is good, I have to read or have to consume. Because I'm mostly there for his music reviews. He thinks the worst shit is like the best shit and it's amazing reading his reviews.

But it's called Solaris by Stanislal Lem. Okay. And I don't know anything about it, but I like that name. Yes. If I can just, it's a really well-known novel. It's just a little bit less of your popular science fiction. Sure. Because it's less pop science fiction, more like,

so I'm a little nervous about it because it's like a little bit cerebral from my understanding. But it follows the crew of scientists on a research station as they attempt to understand extra terrestrial intelligence, which takes the form of a vast ocean on the titular alien planet. Interesting.

Yeah, it's the ultimate futility of attempted communications with extraterrestrial life. Very, very interesting. It's originally written in Polish, so I don't make my boyfriend very happy. Another Polish author after we read the Witcher already? Yeah. But, no, it's a book that's been on my radar for a very long time and I've always wanted an excuse to read it but have never had the drive to do it. So it's pretty high up there.

So there's some famous ones that I really, like, you know, I want to talk about. But I also have just random fantasy or sci-fi books that I just read growing up that I really, that like, you know, I want to talk about. But I also have just random like fantasy or sci-fi books that I just read growing up that I just kind of want to make somebody else read. Oh, I know. I know of this. I experienced this. I'm sorry. No, it's fine. That's why I'm here. I'm sorry. There's like a few that I'm like, oh, I mean, someone else to read this, like, and talk about it.

Because that's what this podcast is about. There's a book I want to talk about. It's by an author that everyone knows, but it's one of the books he wrote that nobody knows. It's called the Transal saga by Gary Paulson. It's the guy who wrote Hatchet. Yeah. But it is a weird sci-fi fantasy hybrid book by the Hatchet guy. Hmm, I would just be curious about that in general.

You can tell that it's written by the guy who wrote Hatchet because there's a lot of survival and sort of stuff in it, but it is technically, I think it's sci-fi, but it has sort of a kind of a fantasy edge to it. I read it as a teenager. It's one of the books I would go back and reread the most, because I liked it so much. I actually have it over here. I'm a shelf-eyed thing.

So it's called The Transal, saga by Gary Paulson. I have another one that I don't think of. So when I was a kid, my mom would just look at the list of like the books and one like the Newberry Metal or whatever, and then just like pick one to buy for me. So I have another one that I read that I've, I've, again, I haven't looked online to see if there's a community for it,

but like no one I've ever met has ever read it. It's a book called The Hero in the Crown, which in retrospect, it makes a lot of sense that I've read. I liked it because it is a female protagonist. It is by Robin McKinley. The hero in the, it's the hero in the crown. It's a fantasy book, female protagonist. No one outside, I know has ever read it. I'd be interested to have somebody else read it.

From famous ones that I want to talk about, that we will at some time, I've already said, I'm very excited for the final or the third book of the Earth C series to talk about for the shore. I really like to talk about some point, some of the Ann McAfry, Dragon Riders of Perne, books. There's like a billion of them though, so we'd have to pick one or two. Also, there's a series meant for young adults, to young adults, like fantasy series called The Dark

Is Rising by Susan Cooper, which there's like five books. They're all very short. I think we should talk about that at some point because the world building in it is interesting That's exciting It's the way you said that makes it very intriguing Yeah, it's it's it's just you don't look into it until it's time for us to read them because it's more fun to like discover it as you go All right, I think it's good. It's a no some now now, you know, our listeners have some idea for things we might be doing in the future here. Obviously, there's lots of things we want to read. Those are just ones I'm we're particularly excited about. I think other ones that like I feel like we

should cover like what are some things that you feel like we're going to have to cover either excited or not like some things you feel like, I just call it enough in the zeitgeist that I feel like we're gonna have to talk about them. At some point. Well eventually have to talk about American gods. Yeah, we're gonna have to do something a Neil Gaiman that's not core line.

That's not core line, that is not a cop out. We'll have to read the thick one in not the tiny little one for children. No! Oh! Um, I mean, you know what? We could get, I bet we could get Dr. Brown back for either American gods or Sandman. If we did, if we did Sandman, we'd get Nicole.

Yes, that too. She's a huge fan. Yes. Ooh, ooh, we get a great double double guess I give Nicole and Dr. Brown Because Dr. Brown would also yell at me for not having red sandman I Mean I have an either I keep I keep literally I go to Comic bookstores because I don't want to buy them online and I keep not being able to find the first

Fucking one because it's always gone. It's like two, three, four, five, they're all there. The first one is just not present. And I'm like, well, weirdly, I don't feel like we ever have to talk about Game of Thrones. No, I'm not putting in that much effort. I'm sorry. I mean, I've read them all but like also again It was so in the zeitgeist that I think everything that's needed to be said about it has already been said For that one um, I would kind of like to cover at least the first book of the expanse. Oh Yeah, I mean, I want to I want to see the expanse too

I feel like we should cover at least the first book of the expense so I can complain about an author making me sympathize with a cop. Because one of the main characters is the police officer. So there's a handful of those. I watched, you know, into the spiderverse, across the spiderverse. Yeah, I'm saying it. I sympathized with a cop. Yeah.

I felt like a traitor for a hot couple minutes and then. Happens to the best of us. So again, the expanse is again a huge extensive series, but we can cover like the first book, because I think you get into a lot of the early political themes just within the first novel. So I think that would be kind of cool is to do the expanse. There everyone, I picked one sci-fi book I want to read.

Actually, I've read the first book of the expanse already, so. I'm just looking at myself to see if there's any books on here that I would love to do. I'd love to do Slotter House 5, but I feel like that's another one that's been talked about the death. Um, I mean, there are some, even the ones that have been talked about death that we could do just because we want to. I mean, like, I still want to talk about Lord of the Rings, like a billion people have talked about that, so.

Because like, slaughterhouse five is goofy, but I think goofy in a way you would appreciate more. It's less British goofy. Oh. And more, and more Amera goofy. And more and more Ameri goofy. Darkly funny as opposed to directly funny. Oh, I am going to make you read one of the follow-up books to Arinkel in time. Because I want to make you read the one with the twins, go back in time to the Bible era, and like meet unicorns and there's like Nephilim having sex with humans. I'm gonna make you read them.

Oh yeah, you've already made it very clear. Oh yeah, it's really stupid. I'm gonna make you read it. Many waters for anyone asking. It's called many waters by Maven Langel. How to leave. So it's all my gilf. How to leave? To talk about a cerebral experience. Oh, geez. Oh, God. Do you want do you want a book that has pages that are just musical notation? Like you're gonna make me read what these ones that's like stream of consciousness shifting in time never know perspective you're coming from this this is gonna be a coming from this this is gonna be a mild well here's the thing if we do slaughterhouse five it's told out of sequence but it's about PTSD and flashbacks and it's good it's really good but like usually stream of consciousness I'll be honest this is something that as

someone who took a lot of English classes in college who constantly has to deal with a best friend who loves stream of consciousness in the form of mostly Faulkner I Am a certified stream of consciousness hater and Like here's the thing. It's like I'll read we had to read some Faulkner some short stories. Yep. And some of the short stories like a rose for Emily. Beautiful, wonderful, creepy, delicious, love that love that

story so much. Trying to get me to read as I lay dying or like absolute my absolute. I don't I don't want to put that much work into it Yeah, I don't like to work that hard So my roommate who's also my best friend he He had to make a Google doc for all of the characters and Separating them out and everything for... It's not absolute absolute, it's another one of Faulkner's. It's the one that everyone freaking, the sound and the fury.

I just can't, I can't wrap my head around it. I get too confused and too upset. Like if it makes you confused and upset, there's no way I would make it through. Not a chance. One day we'll have to suffer through something together, but none of it is sci-fi or fantasy, so it can't be. And that's what that's about.

It can't be that. I will say another thing I don't think will ever cover is anything by Brandon Sanderson because I value my time. That I get your reasoning. This will have to be simply me conceding ground. Do you really want to talk about Mistborn? That are Stormlight Archives, but the problem is that they're, you're right, they're too long. Like, I looked at the audiobook for like the first book of the Stormlight Archives, the audiobook is like 48 hours.

Yes, some shit like that. It's very long, so I understand not doing that. You know, there's one other author that... I'm also just sorry go ahead. There's one extremely popular, extremely well known author that I don't think we've mentioned even once really. Um, and that's Stephen King. No, no, we haven't. And you're like, that is intentional.

I just, I'll be honest with you, I don't think about Stephen King. Yeah, it doesn't really cross my mind either. I don't think about him. Well, to be fair, I have read one, one Stephen King novel, and it's not it, if not one of the ones anyone thinks is good, apparently. I don't know. I have read one singular Stephen King novel. Can you guess?

Well, you can't really guess because he's written 37,000 novels. Yeah, that's what I'd say. That is a shot in the dark. So I still have it over here. Cell? Cell. It's his zombie book.

It's the zombie apocalypse book by Stephen King, called Cell, which opens with the zombie apocalypse book by Stephen King called cell, which opens with the zombie apocalypse starting by people talking on their cell phones and being turned into mindless ravenous zombies from some sort of tone over their cell phone. Cell is the only Stephen King novel I've read and honestly I didn't like it. I thought it kind of I thought it kind of I thought it kind of sucked But like I've been so culturally exposed to Stephen King That like I just don't have any interest in reading his books. I don't want to read it I don't want to read well. We also we also stray away from horror

That's true. We do stray away from horror But he hasn't always write horror and that's the thing. It's like I've've always been curious about the dark tower. Oh, that's a lie. I lied to you. I have run the dark tower and I hated it. Oh shit. I did not I did not like the dark tower. I run it got done and went. I guess that's a security. But that is okay. I'm going to leave that into what I think my next question was going to be is I was going to say of all the books we've read and like the episodes we've done, what do you think are like your most controversial or hottest takes that we've had across our run so far.

Now we haven't talked about Tark Tower, but if we did, that would be my hot take is that I don't like it. I didn't find it to be that compelling. I found the main character to be not sympathetic in any way. I didn't like the wanderer. Whatever the hell is name is. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I don't like the main character. I don't like his arc. It's what he doesn't have an arc. But I don't like the plot.

I don't find the story compelling. And at the end, I just, I got to the end of it and went, ah, well, okay. And that was it. Like I didn't, I did not like it. So that would be a hot take if we covered it. But if you think back to our episodes, like which one do you think had like your spiciest take? Cause I know what mine was.

Mine I think is the fact that I really did not like snow crash. I mean, I didn't like it either. But so many other sci-fi people, like cyberpunk people, still talking about how great it was, and I still can't go over the fact that I don't think it's that good, or creative, or genuine. I still think it's cynical. I still think it's like high on its own farts.

You know what I mean? Like I don't think it's a good example of the genre. I mean it's a pretty popular episode, but that could just be a lot of people googling the name, listening to it and listening to the first 10 minutes and realizing they hate our takes. So it's hard for me. It's possible for me to know. But I did not like Snowcrash.

I didn't think I didn't enjoy the story. I didn't enjoy the plot. Definitely didn't enjoy the plot. I think based on my vibe of this book on the internet, I feel like that might be one of our hottest ticks is that it's not actually good because so many people go on and on about how great it is. I don't know. It just, it didn't, that would have, that would probably be my hot take too then because I'm, because I'm going to be honest, you're really the hot take-hacker for the most part in this relationship. I'm just very, very opinionated.

Yeah. And I am really amicable to most things. Like, I don't really, there are some things out there that I will develop strong opinions about. Starship troopers. Starship troopers, I fucking despise that. But that's not really that hot of a take for a leftist. No, that's kind of expected.

If you're a leftist and you like Starship Troopers, I think something's maybe wrong with you. You're not actually a leftist or a joke. Or your reading comprehension is, you failed every role on reading comprehension. Or I guess you just, you really like the idea of space. But even there's not enough space marine stuff happening in the book for that to be worth it. And also all the space

marine shit is like inherently fascist, so. Yeah, it's like even if you like the just the idea of big robot man who jumps like I don't know. Or even Gellie or something. Yeah, that's... That's... But I feel like in general, I'm just pretty amicable. I don't have these like super strong negative opinions about a lot of stuff. And I don't have some of the

instantly recognizable like, if this is in a book, I don't like it sort of like I do. Yeah. Like I I think stop putting sexual assault in your books when it's not necessary. I agree. It should stop being in there. But it doesn't stop having, stop having teenagers, teenage women fucking men in their fifties. Stop it. Yeah. But it, it in some ways, in certain context hasn't stopped me from enjoying something. Like those would be detracted points. Like I'll be like, oh yeah, like this really isn't cool.

And then I'll look at the next splash screen in Berserk and be like, wow, this guy can fucking draw and then just keep going. Oh yeah, well, like I got into Berserk and it was like, I do, I don't like this at all. Yeah, like despite it being like a very interesting episode for discussion wise, I only read as much of it as I had to and I will never read any more of it because I do not like the content of it. Like I don't like what's going on in the story. I don't like what he did the characters. I get that's the point and I don't like it. I'm precisely the person that the right wingers are complaining

about when they're like, you just hate art. Yeah, I do. I'm a hater. I mean, I'm just a hater. To be fair, I feel like the people who actually have the absolute worst opinions about art and general right wingers, so it doesn't really matter. Yeah, because they don't know whatever. Do you say that stupid list going around until the other day about what was good art and what's bad art?

That's exactly what I was thinking of. And I was like, this is a piece of bad art by its own admission. Just literally is. Like, I don't know. I, there's, and you're at least, because it's not about what somebody likes and what somebody doesn't like.

It's about why. It's about why they like or dislike something. It's like you're people are perfectly free and perfectly valid. Um, even like yourself in enjoying more classical art more so than modern art. Like there's absolutely. Which I think we may have talked about. I don't know if we ever talked about that in a bonus episode, but like, then I've been to like, basically, every named famous art museum throughout like Europe, and I've developed strong opinions about art, and there are that like, I'm like, ooh, I like the Dutch masters, I like romanticism, I like

the landscapes of the guy, you know, the one German guy who likes to paint like a small figure in the misty, like staring off into the mist. And I'm not a fan of abstraction very much. I think, you know, Basquiat and Rothko can shove it. But at the same time, it's like there's the, I know why I don't like it. Yeah, there's the all important why where it's not it's not because it's degenerate art, you know No, I just I simply don't enjoy it. It's just not for me and it's it's not This wholesale admission that this entire field of art is invalid No, no, they're definitely still artists like so Jackson Pollock was

definitely a talented artist. I just don't like anything he did. So there is there's a certain level of maturity necessary to understand that one's personal tastes don't like dictate the push and pull of reality and and that's just something that a lot of the most egregious right-wing critics just do not understand by any stretch of the imagination. They just can't separate the whole, my taste is, they think of it as a universal

and that if anything is different than that, then it's a corruption of this universal and that if anything is different than that, then it's a corruption of this universal reality that they experience. Well, to put politics in it, I think I drew something about this the day of this, what I call sort of the universal, like, truths you must accept for like anarchism. And one of them is that just because I don't like something doesn't mean other people can't do it. And vice versa.

And so it's fundamental to me to being an anarchist is that like there can be art that I don't like. But it doesn't really matter because other people can like it and that's fine. I... It's an integral part of the art experience, actually. It's an integral part of the experience and to me it's an integral part of the art experience, actually, it's an integral part of the experience. And to me, it's an integral part of being an anarchist, because there's a lot of things I really don't like, but that doesn't mean other people came

to I hate cooking. I despise the act of cooking. It, to me, it feels like a chore in a waste of time. To me, eating is the thing I have to do functionally to keep my body moving. I don't particularly drive joy from eating. I said that on Twitter and I had a whole lot of people, all of my friends were like, what? No, cooking is a great way to express yourself and show affection and like it's a creative outlet from which you can experience joy and like the pleasures of life and I'm like cool. I'm glad that you feel that way. I would rather eat the same meal every day if it was easy to make because I don't want to spend any of my free time cooking food because I feel like it's a waste of my time. I-

My problem is I don't want to spend any of my free time cleaning up my mess. Yeah, well that too, but like I would- I said to my Twitter like I would happily do all the dishes if someone else did all the cooking because I just don't like doing it. You know what's really funny? That's absolutely my parents in a nutshell. Like my mother hates cooking. So do my mom. So do my mom. So to my mom.

But my dad didn't really, wasn't really the best at cleaning up when he cooked. So my mom just kind of trailed behind him and cleaned up everything. Yeah, perfect. So I think when it comes to our, in the extending off of us talking about like hot takes and stuff, it's like, yeah, I do have very strong opinions about a lot of things,

but like, unless it's like, again, like starship troopers are even a little bit of snow crash, where it's like, I feel like the message you're supposed to take from this art is inherently negative. Like the message, I'm gonna, if you tell me you like starship troopers, I will judge you. But like, you know, if you tell me you like Bazarak,

I'm like, all right, cool. I am all of a sudden. I hope you like it. If you say, if you say, I really like attack you know, if you tell me you like Bazarak, am I all right? Cool. I am all of them. I hope you like it. If you say, if you say, I really like Attack on Titan, I'm gonna go sweet. A lot of people say good things about it. I watched the first season and didn't enjoy it that much. Me, me with most shown an anime in Jeff. Yeah. Like, I get the lot of people love it. That's cool. And I will voice my criticisms of it on my own podcast. But if you like it, that's cool, that's fine.

Go to town. Oh, man, I can't. My brain got distracted by the anime mention, and now I don't know what I was going to say. I was thinking about that because I saw it. I only thought about that because like on Twitter today people were like I don't know some apparently very famous episode of Attack on Titan released like 10 years ago today So people were like showing clips from it or something

Yeah, and I'm like I watched like I don't know I think the first season or half of the first season was like this is something And then I just kind of stopped But that's also not going thing with me that I just also don't watch TV shows period no matter what style they're in. Yeah, TV shows are simply big commitment. I am also one of the people that suffers extremely from what I call like what like second-hand embarrassment or uncomfortability. So like if I watch a TV show where the characters are meant to be uncomfortable, I will be incredibly uncomfortable and I simply won't watch it because I don't want to

feeling I'm watching things for enjoyment, not to feel incredibly uncomfortable. That is extremely valid. So like I will not watch a sitcom because most of the humor is usually based on a character being forced into an awkward situation and I'm weird,aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I mean books included where I'm kind of hoping for something that'll break the mold, that'll like really, really jostle me. The fifth season did that. The fifth season really did do that. That was a really good book. And I can't say it was always fun reading, but it was good. And it's like I feel like I'm getting that way with like all media. But then I don't know. It depends on what form of media it is. I feel like I've already kind of

seen what the where the lengths go. And I'm like, where else do I go from here? And I get a little bit disappointed to look forward to something else. But I feel like, yes, you're looking for like, you know, new experiences, something that like breaks the bolt and shakes it up, where like, if I'm left to my own devices, I will always go back to like comfort food. Like I would eat pizza every day. And like you can extrapolate that to like, you know, my taste in like books. Like if I could just read my silly little fantasy books like I just will

you know like oh shit after I had a book that's challenging oh fuck I mean the thing is is I like I both get excited about the idea of a challenging piece of media and then half the time don't put in the effort to find and or do the challenging thing in media and then just end up doing the same thing and falling back. Meeting pizza again. I just reached for Scott Pilgrim for the eight millionth time and reread it. I'm like, that's easy. Yeah, for me, it's, you know, just rereading load of the rings or, again, some of those

books I mentioned earlier, which are ones for my childhood that I really enjoyed that I just like enjoy reading again. I there is one book that I now I think about it I feel like I almost have to do I'm going to read it first and then tell you whether it's any worth while yeah what's that I had a coworker a kind of this has a story attached to it that I kind of have to do. It was kind of crazy. I think a little bit just undiagnosed something. I don't know what, but something. And he socially did not know when to stop talking. Like he just did not know when to to pack it up and go. And he made everyone a little uncomfortable because that extended to like weird comments and all sorts of stuff where

you're like, okay, let's not. And he also had like a bit of a conspiratorial edge to him, a little bit of a conservative conspiratorial edge to him, a little bit of a conservative conspiratorial edge to him. Charles worried he's going to say something about the Jews. Yes, you're always a little worried that he's going to say something like that. And he heard that I read a lot of science fiction and fantasy and he got really excited because he apparently just has a ton. And he was like, oh, I've got this one book.

It's like you have to read it. It's called Changeling by, it's right on my shelf over here, Rodgers Alasney and I've heard the names Alasney. Okay. And if we look up his name, he's actually fairly famous. He wrote The Chronicles of Amber. He's actually fairly famous. He wrote The Chronicles of Amber. Okay. And I was like, okay, and he showed up to work one day. And at the end of the day, it's because I feel like I was the only person who would talk to him.

He brought me this ratty copy of changeling and said, I can have it. And he just gave me this book. And he was a temporary worker, so a couple of days later, he just stopped me this book and he was a temporary worker so a couple of days later he just stopped coming to work and I never saw him again. So I have this book sitting on my shelf that I'm like I kind of feel like I need to read this. This is like a book end to this story of this strange, strange man who I was kind to and got a gift for. It's called what? The changeling? Yeah, it's just changeling.

Because the changeling brings up a whole last other book. Oh, no, yeah. No, it's just changeling by Roger Zalazni. It's not, I think, one of his most famous, and he's written a bajillion books. Yeah, you'll have to read that one and tell me if it's worthwhile. Yeah, only because it looks an awful lot like your classic pulp fantasy. It does have very pulpy cover, yeah. So, but eventually I feel like I will have to read it just to find out.

I guess if there's any fantasy novel that I'm like hmm I feel like that's important, but I don't really want to touch it. It's probably like Conan the barbarian Oh, yeah, you don't want to do Conan Pope fantasy There's a little sandal. There's like Bits of Pope fantasy that maybe go hmm like a weird nostalgia for a period I never had but also go huh like Maybe it's really good that we moved on from this I can see that. Fushes some of the you know the Conan stuff

No, I don't read any books where we're doing raping and pillaging Yeah, and even and even like looking at some of like, not even like 3.5, but like first edition, second edition, D&D art. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was really pulpy. Where it was extremely pulpy. And then you even get that with the original designs for like the Githyonky and the Drow. Yeah, it looks like it's straight out of like a like a Conan novel. Fucking red sign, yeah, ass. And the attempts, and the attempts that people like, like, that the artists at Watson have made to try and like modernify them, but some of them especially the Githyonky cannot exist.

Well, if that pulpy is like, like, like, if you guys, if that's your review, but if you want to hear continue this conversation and here are opinions on the politics of dnd you should sign up to the patreon yeah cuz we're gonna talk about it we're gonna talk about that right now oh shit I think cuz I do think that brings us the end of this sort of review episode um it's about all I want to talk I just wanted to get off my chest you know some like things we like is there a final thought? Is there anything you've learned before we go move on to our bonus episode? Anything you think you've learned about either books or like what you like about books

in our like two years of doing this? Like what's your biggest brain wave? Cause I think mine would be, as we just discussed, I've clearly, I've clearly learned things that are like big turn offs for me like in a story. Which I don't think I clearly knew about myself until we started this.

I would say that the other big brain wave we've had doing this is to me the way the genres break down, which we already talked about, the sort of like sci-fi being criticizing today via the future with the politics pretty on the face and fantasy being criticizing today via the past where the politics is mostly sublimated, more sublimated than sci-fi, it's not a thing I don't think I'd ever thought about until we started doing this. The way the politics come across can really sort of does change based on the like Sort of the genre of the novel, but is there anything you think you've like learned either about yourself or about like books in this like two years

It's actually a wonderful question Did I haven't spent that much time thinking about? Surprise bitch. I Don't know I feel like a part of it is realizing how difficult it is to displace me. Part of it is that kind of that, that just realizing how much I really do just enjoy the act of reading this stuff,

even if I don't necessarily love it. Yep. I even when I was in like grade school, I would, you know, people would be like, oh man, I really hate this. And I wouldn't get it. And I still am in that space, I think, a little bit. But it's more of an understanding of that I just enjoy the act of reading. Sure. And as long as the subject material or the writing has some sort of substance, which is 95.99% of the things we pick, we pick because we know they have substance. Or we think they do, based on the reverse remembering,

we're like, I bet there's something here. Yeah, there's gotta be something worth. And I don't know. So it's less of a, I feel like it's less of a learning thing and more of a kind of grateful thing that we did this, that this came along because it's kept me reading after years of nothing. Yeah, I've read more books in the past two years than I had I think in the past, you

know, since I would say since like high school graduation. From high school graduation up until two years ago, which I'm not going to tell you all exactly how many years that is. But it's a few. I've read more books in the past two years than I did in that. All those intervening years put together. In college, I read one book for fun. I don't think I read a single book for fun. Then I blasted it out in a weekend. Which one was that?

That was a young adult novel called I'll give you the Sun by Janie Nelson. I read it because I was in a youth novel writing course and we did a section of the course on subverting expectations and the intro essentially and she and my professor gave us intro lines and the intro line to the like the intro paragraph to I'll give you the sun was a kid running away he was like 14 or 15 or something running away from a bully and he was panicking. Oh I think you've talked about this before because not because the bully was chasing him, but because he found the bully attractive.

Yes, I remember you told me about this now. And it was like the way the sentence was structured, like it pulled in this way, and then immediately just dunk, like the very last couple words just completely changed the context of the entire sentence. And I was like, that was kind of fantastic. What she just did with that, like that she was able to pull that out of her butt. And I immediately went out, I asked the professor, I was like, is that book any good?

And she was like, yeah, that book's actually really fantastic. And I was like, okay, it's like a queer romance novel, but it's semi-aromance novel, semi-aromance novel, about twins, about these twins, and the sections of the story are told between their perspectives, they're told from the fraternal twins, they tell the story of the boy when they're both 13 or 14 and the perspective of the girl when they're both like 16 and it flips back and forth. So you're

getting these like later perspective years from the girl and these other perspective, younger perspective years from the boy and you're kind of leading up to the story of how their mother died, which is like, it's like this is a looming thing in the late story. Like, you know, it's coming and it's like how to. And it's like how do these events collide and eventually they just kind of slide right into each other and it's very good and very heartfelt. It's a young adult novel, so it's not like anything crazy, but it was very enjoyable and I punched it out in a weekend because it was just very easy to read.

Nice. I was thinking about it. I was trying to think of the last book I read like for fun Essentially up into when we started the podcast Because I mean in those years intervening. I did occasionally reread books that I already owned But I don't count that The last book I read for fun before I essentially gave up on on reading books leading into this podcast. You know what it was? The last book you've ever filmed before this.

Before the podcast? That's a total shot in the dark. It came out while I was in college. Came out? It was released. It was the final book in a series. And it was released while I was in college. It was adapted into movies. Oh, is it the last Harry Potter book? Nope, it was the last Hunger Games book.

Oh, Hunger Games, that makes sense. Mocking Jay in 2010. I was about to say, you're not... I should have... Not that old. Not that old. I shouldn't have... I mean, to be further, the last Harry Potter book came out and I was like at high school, I think.

Yeah, so... That would have been high school. My sister was in high school. But no, the last things I read for fun before the drought What would have been the Hunger Games books because I read Hunger Games catching fire mocking Jake's all came out while I was like in college and my girlfriend at the time had them So I read them from her and then I was just I graduated and was like a fuck books a tired drunk Not gonna read.

But yeah, thank you all of you who have, you know, listened to all of our episodes and I know there's some of you that have been here, basically since the beginning and to you, mad respect. Thank you so much. We love you and appreciate all of you. This has been a wonderful experience. I want to echo Catholic sentiment here that this has been wonderful. I. I want to echo Kethel sentiment here that this has been wonderful. I honestly didn't anticipate that. Anybody would listen to these because it's just, you know, me and a friend talking about books. And so the fact that some of you enjoy our content means, oh, actually does mean quite a lot to me. So thank you so much. This has been a lot of fun. And I plan to continue doing it as often as we can because I, you know, it's fun. It's cool. Thank you.

Thank you, seriously. Thank you to everyone who listens. Thank you to everyone on the Patreon. Thank you to everybody. Yes. If you're the Patreon, we'll shout out. We're going to record for you. As we said, we're going to record for you next.

But again, if you want us to, if you can, support us on Patreon. Cool. If you can, whatever. That's fine. The fact you listen to these episodes is dope as hell. We just like having you listen in. It's cool that someone enjoys what we're talking about. But thank you so much, everyone. We will be back next episode. I think should be the beginning of our sort of Asian arc. I think I can call that without a sounding weird. I think I've done it. I really think so. or trying to figure out how problematic that song actually is. Weirdly. Or if anyone else here is like a fan of the Kill James Bond podcast, you can do the James Bond quote-unquote the good-back. I'm a friend of a, I haven't turned entirely Japanese. But we're gonna, we're gonna do some stuff more from like China and China,

Japan, the region of Asia more generally like we might do some foundation stuff like Journey to the West. I definitely want to do some like the three-body problem and some stuff like that that we have coming up to. We just want to shake it up a little bit before we go back to comfort food. Yeah, I want to shake it up a little bit. So thank you all for listening and yeah, now on to the Patriot episode about the politics of D&D and what we're bro Are you fucking real man? Come on!