Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - Ep 6: Loyle Carner

Episode Date: December 13, 2017

This week, Mercury-nominated man-of-the moment Loyle Carner pops round to mum’s for a special Hannukah feast. Over chopped liver, a LOT of latkes and a pasta pudding we talk ADHD, hanging with Heston and the time he got to meet his hero Eric Cantona. Chag Sameach! Happy Hanukkah!  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware. I'm Lenny. And we are in Clapham at Mum's house and today we have decided to do a themed podcast. We're doing a Hanukkah special. I don't think we've ever really celebrated Hanukkah like a dinner. Darling we have, we've got a menorah with the candles and you get money. Chanukah gout. Yeah, that's true. We were missing you last week, Mum. I know. You didn't take me with you, but I was somewhere else.

Where were you? Tangoing in Argentina. Yeah, Alex, my brother, who's currently in Argentina, decided for Mum's birthday present to get her the hottest tango instructor. He was. Mum, those videos. Are, those videos are hideous. I'm now on a diet. Having seen my bottom move from side to side.

It was your stern face whilst doing the tango. You'd been stern. He told me that I was not a woman that would tango easily. What did he say? Because I don't, I can't allow the man to lead. Oh, yeah. It was a problem with Adriano. It was.

He said, this is very difficult for me. Did you allow him to lead? Well, you have to because he rocks you from side to side. Is that why you looked so pissed off? I was, no, I was concentrating. Anyway, we did miss you. I'm sorry that you weren't there. I'm sorry because I love Benny.

I know you do. But this week we have quite brilliant young man. He's 23. He's from South London. And he's a rapper. I don't like calling him a rapper. He's kind of more of a hip hop. Oh, he's an artist. He's brilliant.

He's a wordsmith. He is called Loyal Karner. I have to say, until you mentioned his his name I've never heard of him. Does he make records? Yes he's Mercury nominated it's a brilliant record it talks a lot about his family he's really close with his mum um he went to Brit school. Did he? Yeah I kind of want to ask him about that and he has also set up his own cookery school for kids with ADHD. Fantastic. He's really talented. I met him at the Mobos this week and he was charming and we had to stop ourselves talking. Is he the handsome one in the Instagram?

Yes. Okay. Got it. Yes. Very handsome. Very. Very handsome. He's also the face of a YSL perfume.

Are you kidding me? I know. He's doing all right. And he wanted the latkes. He wants the latkes. You're kidding me. I know, he's doing alright. And he wanted the latkes. He wants the latkes, he wants to know. He's a big cook. Let's hope they work. Why, have you not made them? I have, but it's a lot of grating

and a lot of potatoing. It's essentially a hash brown. Oh, okay. You can cook them then. Essentially. Anyway, we're You can cook them then. Essentially. Anyway, we're looking forward to Loyal Kana

on Table Members. I'm looking forward to it, yeah. Hi. This is my mum mum Lenny. Hi. Do you want a drink? God, definitely. Do you want beer? I remembered you like beer.

Sorry about the smell. No, it smells beautiful, innit? You've come in out of the cold. We have Loyal Khana, also known as Ben. That is me. And thank you so much for coming over to my mum's on a Friday night

thank you for having me I hope Emily your lovely girlfriend doesn't mind too much yeah I'm not in that much trouble I'm in a bit of trouble but it's good trouble we can send her some latkes

yeah yeah deal so look this is the deal we've decided to do a themed one we've never done a themed one I don't know mum how are you enjoying the themed dinner

whispered fucking hate it right we like we like to tell everybody that we're Jewish and we Are you enjoying the themed dinner? Whispered fucking hate it. Right. We like to tell everybody that we're Jewish and we are like the worst Jews ever and we don't do anything. I'm the worst. Well, okay. I am the worst Jew ever.

But anyway, so tonight we've kind of done a Hanukkah themed. But like, I mean, it's just for you, my friend. Well, I don't know why it's just for me. It wasn't my idea. I know. It was our idea. It wasn't mine. So anyway, mum is currently frying latkes.

We all stink of the chip shop. But they smell good, though. They smell fine, Mum. They look great. They've browned nicely. She was worried about she had to change pan because they weren't browning well. I've changed pans in the street. Don't change pan.

Mum, so tonight, Mum, will you just tell us what we've got tonight? We've got chopped liver. Have you ever had chopped liver? No, never. Now, some people are funny about chopped liver because it sounds disgusting. But I would love to try it. And it's got grated egg on just to kind of add to the weird. Oh, well, just to make it even stranger.

Yeah. I'm excited about that. You don't have to be excited because it's gorgeous. It's been something that we've always had, like, a lot of, like, when I have new friends and whatnot, we invite them over for Friday night dinner and we always kind of, you know, bring out the chopped liver. And I remember,

um, Ben and Daniel Palmer of PMR who signed me came over and they looked and they looked like with horror at this kind of plate of Brown with grated egg. And they would literally like, Oh my God, you're going to make me eat this. Yeah, I know.

That's it. And I don't, you don't have to be excited about it and you don't have am i genuinely am excited about it it's one of it's like my it's it's the food that i'd have in prison if i like my last meal it would be like the starter but i don't know whether that's just because i've been brought up on it yeah but must be all right but is this all right well you're welcome to have some. Mum, it's not your best, though. No, like, Mum, it's good. It's really good.

Sorry, Mum. Oh, it's really nice. It's really, really nice. It's the most unattractive-looking thing, though, isn't it? It's good. Mum, should we just lay off on the latkes for a bit so we can chat? He's on a mission.

How many more have we got? Tell me to make them. So this is my mother, Lenny. I'm kind of gutted your mum didn't come. Yeah, no, I'm really sorry. Was she busy? Yeah, she was working. What does she do?

She's a teacher. Was she working? She teaches kids with special educational needs like dyslexia, autism, ADHD, etc. So yeah, she's done. She thinks she finished. The last one was in Brixton, but she's got to go home,

sort my little brother out, and then come. So you have a little brother? How old is he? He is 16. It's just you two? Yeah, it's me and my little brother and my mum.

Yeah, he's a hero, man. He's now studying film and psychology. Where? A school place Rygate. Rygate College. Far off, kind of south way. Because you went to Brit. Mm-hmm.

Did you go to Brit from... When can you start Brit school? From either when you're 14 or when you're 16. When did you start? When I was 14. Because I've always been really intrigued by Brit. Because I think I talked to you about maybe wanting to go there for a bit didn't i mum she's got a mouth full of liver um but did you enjoy it yeah i did i think what was more important

about it was actually you know work hanging out of spending time with people who were kind of like-minded in terms of were interested in the same things creatively that i was it wasn't so much about going to study, you know, your chosen field. I was studying, I think I was doing theatre, like acting. Just because I was really interested. I was a big fan of Shakespeare. I used to hate him a lot.

And then when I went to see, mum took me to see one of his plays. I went to see Romeo and Juliet. Where did you go and see it? At the Donmar Warehouse, I think. Oh, who was in it? Was there anybody? I can't remember.

I went to see another one later on with Eddie Redmayne in it. Henry the Sucker. Okay, right. Which was cool. But yeah, I went and it was interesting. But I think the main thing about it was one, being able to be appreciated for what you were

and not have to fit into some other box. But also, yeah, because I got ADHD and I figured being there kind of helped me get on with figuring out what would work for me and not just work for another kid in a situation did you when did you find out that you had adhd when i was seven or eight was that because your mum worked with people with it my mom my mom kind of knew from from from early but i was getting into a lot of trouble at school and she didn't really understand like the school didn't understand why i'm kind of putting me in

situations that weren't helping and so my mom went got me tested properly explain to me like situate like what i mean what what were you getting in trouble for just nothing so the way the best way to do is i can explain how adhd works so in your brain there's like synapses and that's if you have so say like there's like one finger here one finger here and a little gap in between them is um the the synapse and so a fork travels from one side up to the other and in the gap the like the um the fork goes straight from one to the other but in the brain of adhd the gap's a little bit bigger so when it comes when this fork comes it gets here and goes to go to the to the thing that's gonna make it happen but then it splits into five and then

that splits into five and five and five and five until a hundred things are going on at once but i just used to i was got distracted i used i was a bit hot-headed had a short temper but i just i because i was sat down all day writing stuff down which i didn't want to do i wanted to be up on my feet kind of physically kinetic energy doing stuff. Yeah, that's what it was. So you've learned how to kind of channel that? Yeah, yeah. Which was just being, just kind of being trusted one to be, you know, to be a grown up when I wasn't.

And also to be able to, yeah, be able to get on my feet and be trusted with things, you know, to be able to be out of the class for 10 minutes or to have something in my hands that could break. Was Brit pretty good for that then? Yeah, I i mean some of the teachers just appreciated it because it seemed like that you know there's like the head teacher who's there now um stewart warden who's like kind of for me for me was like a savior because he just yeah appreciated kind of how i worked and was very interested in special educational needs and catering for them and making them inclusive so being like okay you're the class, but it doesn't matter that, kind of not being like, okay,

you're separate from the class and you can't do anything there, but you can be part of it and understand how to handle you as opposed to single me out and make me look stupid. Mum, you're making so much. I think like, let's give up on the lacquers. Okay, but you've done a lot.

How many have you made? Mum, literally they're lined up. Hold on. But there's so many. Mum, I'm worried. I'm worried about the pudding, right? So Ben, I'm not a pudding person and I've made pudding and I can't... Usually with this podcast, I felt like I've kind of sorted it

where my mum just basically makes everything and I entertain. And then today she made me make it. I've never made it. The apples aren't caramelizing it's caramelized apples upside down kugel cake wow so kugel kugel is like noodles yeah oh okay right well okay it means cake in german tell me i didn't know that so basically it's noodles it's like egg pasta yeah with a custard and then you what yeah wow and then so it's kind of like a bread and butter pudding but with pasta so it's loads of butter loads of sugar and then i put apples at the bottom with loads of butter and

sugar to caramelize but my fucking apples aren't caramelizing how much time have we got? We've got time. I know, but what would you do? I'd turn the oven off. Oh. That would be why then. Well, I was worried that it was going to dry it out. Are you a pudding person? I can't do puddings. My missus does the puddings. I do the main meal.

I do the main and the starter. And then my missus does the dessert. That's kind of how we run. I'm just, yeah, that's the thing. Puddings are impossible, man. Because they're so glorious. Yeah, but it has to be so precise. I can't do precise. I can just, yeah, that's the thing. Puddings are impossible, man. Because they're so glorious. Yeah, but they take, it has to be so precise.

I can't do precise. I can just kind of dash things at her. I know, I'm more rustic. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

just kind of throw it in, see what happens. Yeah, yeah, this is why I'm pissed off. So listen, I apologise if the pudding doesn't work.

It's okay, you've got to stop apologising, it's good. I really need wine. Okay, hold on. What do you want? Do you want red?

Yeah, let's open that one. Mum? Yes, darling? What do you want? Do you want red? Yeah Mum Yes darling Ben has a cookery school Yeah That's where we need to go

I think Where is it? St. Old Street It's a place called Central Street Kitchen But it's just like a little It's like a community centre But it has a beautiful

kitchen at the back which you can use for for lessons so we rent out are you teaching yeah it's myself and a friend of mine called mikey how did you come up with the idea um so this kid called mikey he's like a bit younger than me he's just turned 20 i think and he uh has this uh collective called goma which is basically like a social enterprise and they facilitate particular i don't know ideas that people want to do and so he's got like he asked me to be a part of he's like set up a skate park in nepal and he's got like a surf school in brazil and he wanted me to be a part of that and i was like are you a skater oh no no i used to a little bit but not really but he is heavily and he kind of he figured i might still be doing it and so i can't be a part of

that but i've got an idea if you want to listen to it and i told him about the cooking school and he was like let's just do it. And so about six months later, we had put it together, been to loads of different schools, reached out to loads of kids, had some help from my mum and help from kind of his family. And yeah, went from there.

So who are the children that go? Kids, so it's for kids with ADHD only because I've got ADHD myself. And I kind of wonder, one thing that used to really calm me down when I was younger was cooking. So yeah, it's kids between ages of 14 to 16 with ADHD. Do you take tablets for your ADHD?

No, I did for a little bit when I was at school. Not Ritalin? Yeah, I'm dead against it. It was in the same, kind of sunk of the same ilk as Ritalin. It's called Concherta. But it's awful. Have you learned strategies to manage it yet? Cooking, cooking is one of them.

But in the most part, it's just anything that's, to keep myself busy is kind of the best way to in the most part it's just anything to keep myself busy is kind of the best way to combat it if I'm sat down doing nothing that's when it kind of manifests itself

not negatively but that's kind of when I get frustrated with myself but if I'm up and active and busy doing stuff especially stuff

that kind of takes up my whole being which is why as a wicked I don't know if you've watched Chef's Table I've started it yeah

as a wicked there's like a Korean monk and she says that and she says that cooking is the closest thing you can get to meditation if you can't meditate

because it takes up all of your being so you're not thinking about anything else it's so true whenever I'm like highly stressed I cook about

five different meals like my managers came around for a meal a meeting the other day and I was like a bit crazed but like I'd already like made

three yeah yeah meals for my daughter and then like made a put like it was kind of very yeah just just to do it i do this yeah i come home if i'm especially now if i come home for a bit see my mom i'll just make we've got like a pasta maker at home so i just make pasta so you say you're not a baker but i think pasta sounds just as like laborious and pain in the arse. It is for the first couple of times. Once you get a feel for like how much flour you need and how much egg yolks you need and whatnot, it's quite straightforward. If you can kind of, if you get a bowl and you can see how high you fill it up the first time with flour, then you can kind of just go off. Really?

Off of that after that. Because it's not as precise as you think. You can just feel it with the texture. I use like one cup of flour. One cup of flour plus seven tablespoons. Because that should be like exactly what you need. And then eight egg yolks. What, one cup of flour plus seven tablespoons of flour?

Of flour, yeah. Just extra, so you have that little bit extra. Because when you start to knead it and kind of mix it on the table, some of it becomes excess. So you need a cup's worth, but I've found that you end up kneading a little bit more because some of it just sprays around.

I just, I don't have the patience for this shit. It's easy. And then that laying out when you're making the tagliatelle, it drives me mental. But that's the thing that really calms me down

because it's like, it's like a physical activity. Just winding it out, winding it out is the thing that really calms me down. It's weird. Mum, come to the mic, please. I'm coming now.

Fuck's sake, she's just like... Honestly. It's just finished now. I'm so glad I washed my hair. It's going to now smell of, like, lacquer. All my clothes do. My trash-miss sweater says, shut your balls. Oh, catch my sweater.

Yeah, there you go. M&S special. Right, so shut your balls. Oh, catch my sweater. Yeah, there you go. M&S special. Right, Mum, come here. So, so... You're so dramatic. You've been working hard. Let me clear my throat. Sorry, I've got to back up.

Right, so, Mum, to explain to you, Ben is a... I don't know, would you call yourself a... Rapper? Rapper? I don't know, I feel like... But rappers are really poets, aren't they? Yeah, Ben is a... I don't know, would you call yourself a... Would you call yourself a rapper? I don't know, I feel like... But rappers are really poets, aren't they? Yeah, he's a poet. They're minstrels.

Yes, very nice. Minstrels. Well, they are, they're delivering a message. Well, minstrels in the old days, like Elizabethan times, they'd go around and they'd sing a song. I thought minstrels were the guys that were backed up. No, darling, that's a whole different notion. Okay, cool.

Minstrels in the Elizabethan times used to go around and sing a song, but they were actually delivering a message. So that's what rappers do. They deliver a message through their words. That's interesting you say that because you're really into Shakespeare. You see?

Well, there you go. Do you do rhyming couplets? No, but I can if you could on request if i if i need to i could do a b a b b c a b could you do a freestyle rhyming couplet right now uh no i'm not having i just haven't had enough beers okay fine give me two more i'm gonna do fire in the booth and about like three beers in i'll be on the table so ben has had this amazing year i guess i mean Bec honestly

since I knew that you were doing this podcast I can't get away from you in every magazine you were in I was on the train today and you were in

front of NME yeah it's ridiculous you're everywhere I know mum he's so handsome that's why

I'm afraid can't look you're also a model no I'm not a model you're on YSL yeah that came about yeah no it came about

because I was doing I was playing this one song on French TV just kind of as the end credits and at the end they were like do you want to quickly

announce the weather I was like I don't speak French and I'm quite dyslexic I couldn't do that and they were like no it's fine it's fine

we'll put like a teleprompter up for you so they put it up in front of the I was on the green screen and did the weather and the head of YSL was watching it and so that night was like,

that's the guy I want for the campaign and just got in touch. Fucking you. So yeah, so it was not because I'm a model. Well, no, it's also because you're not very good looking. I look like a frog. I do look like a frog. You look like a frog.

Very funny. You're very good looking. What's your... Heritage. Yeah, your heritage. My dad was born in Britain in britain by his my grandmother and my granddad from um guyana in south america which is but it's close to the caribbean because it's kind of on the caribbean coast yeah i've never been i've never never got a chance have

you not they drink high wines there yeah yeah that thing it's like a spirit but they call it high wine nice okay well i'll go i well, I will go and do that. Yeah, I want to go. I think my grandma's from Georgetown, so I'm going to try and get out there and meet her. Fabulous. Well, I would love to go, but my mum is from Scotland. But I think it's like a bit more like rainforest.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's beautiful. That's the thing. It's so gorgeous. It's kind of untapped, I think, which is why I want to go. I've wanted to go to South America for a long time. Because they used to call it British Giana.

Yes, yes, yes. And then they dropped the British. And that's what's happening. Quite right. You should go and make a film out there. I would love to. I want to go out and, yeah, just kind of find out about what kind of where I'm from.

Because I don't know much of my family. I don't know much about that side of my family. Your dad passed away? Yeah, that's my father, who I don't really see that much. My stepfather passed away. Yeah, like three years ago, four years ago. Oh, I'm sorry. That's all right. Yeah, it's cool. But yeah, it's just me, my mum and my brother at home. don't really see that much my stepfather passed away yeah like three years ago four years ago i'm sorry that's all right yeah it's cool but yeah it's just me my mom my brother at home and you

all live together yeah yeah it's just about i'm kind of dancing between there and my missus house at the moment which is cool but yeah no i'm myself in in croydon how has your mom dealt with this year um and it just kind of just in general going so well this has been wicked i mean since since my father passed away it kind of was the last kind of three years i guess it's been quite a nice distraction for her so it's meant that you know when when things are tough or whatnot we've always been able to things will be going on for me that i can take her to so for example go to glasgow i've got tickets you can come with me no hold on did you get her good she won't ever let me go she's such a mean can we talk about the fact that you referenced Shirley Bassey as you going,

you know how Shirley Bassey arrived in Daimonte Wellies? That's how you thought you were going to arrive, in a helicopter. I'm sorry, Mum. That's how you should have arrived. I'm not on the pyramid stage

and I'm not, I haven't got the budget for your Daimonte Wellies. No, I wasn't. He got his mum on stage, I think, at the Glasgow Roof stage too. What did you do with your mum?

So my mum's got a poem at the end of my album. It's the last thing on my album. And so when it plays out, and she doesn't want to do it live, which I understand, but afterwards I wanted her to get the applause that she deserved.

Did she write the poem? She wrote it, yeah. She wrote it and recorded it herself. It was in one take. I just wanted her to get the applause that she deserved. So did she perform it? No, no, no. She just came out after it had been performed.

She didn't know about it. I was just like, come out, come out. She came out and everyone went crazy. Do you see how he loves his mother, darling? And she gets the accolades that she deserves. Mum, written a song for you you do have a podcast on this record called sam and i go i hope i'm as brave as my mother and you said i go mum do you like that song you went not my you're listening to Table Manners with me Jessie Ware and my mother Lenny

I want to know where you got your stage name Laura Karner yeah so my name is Benjamin Koyodana and so I'm oh so

yeah I'm dyslexic and when I was younger I used to call myself Laura Karner by accident oh how sweet and so everyone used to take the piss out of me for it so I figured when it

when we did okay, it was time to kind of make the most of it. Now, I'm just going to introduce Sam, the former co-host of Table Manners. Bubba, come and say hello to your fans. Hello, everybody. I'm enjoying the latkes tonight, I'm sure. He's just coming for some food.

Jesse's cutting up my cooking. Just a question. What? Get on the mic, Bubba. Get on the mic. How is the latke? I was wondering did you write much in terms of like when you

were, obviously you're a lyricist you write your lyrics but when you were in school being dyslexic did you actually write much? Yeah the only thing I could do was write poetry or like write rhymes. It was the only thing I could do that I could get any praise for at school so that's the only thing I used to write. Amazing.

Because of everything else I used to do, they'd be like, this spelling's wrong, but with poetry or whatever, it wasn't about the spelling or the form or the structure. It was just about what you were writing down. That's amazing.

It was. Amazing. Being dyslexic in school, I didn't fancy writing much. You put you off. One of the things that I was scared of doing. Did you want to be a writer? There's still time.

There's still time, my love. He used to make me go to jest gigs. We used to go to terra firma gigs, Clash in a Rascal. Didn't we? Who was my favourite? Who was my guy that I liked? I listened to Kaiser.

Kaiser. I loved Kaiser. He was sick. I listened to... What's the other guy that does the podcast? Oh, Romesh. Romesh Ranganathan. Yeah, yeah.

I listened to your podcast today and then I heard the jest one. Yeah, yeah. Sick one.. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's on the podcast today and then I heard the Jess one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sick one. Sick one, yeah, yeah. He's a good dude, man. Who was the one you went to in Brixton and they had the guns,

the shooting? That was Naz. Oh, was he a rapper? Yeah. Very good rapper. Did you support Naz? Yeah, I supported Naz. Oh, no, just on a one-off show

in Bristol. Any guns? No guns. Thank God. How was that? He's our favourite rapper. Yeah, yeah yeah he's a man um it was wicked yeah no actually you actually didn't meet people yeah no i didn't meet him i didn't meet him john the maddest thing was we were in there we were in the backstage and our backstage was a

gazebo outside the venue because he wanted the whole backstage himself you're just kidding oh no he's too precious. I've gone off him. And I couldn't even... That's the first time I ever told that story, actually, because everyone was like, oh, what's it like? And I was like, yeah, it's cool.

We met, we hung out. We never met, thank you. Well, if we're going to go there, I'll go on to my Nicki story, shall I? Yeah. Nicki who? Well, Nicki Minaj. Jessie sang on...

Jessie wrote a song that Nicki Minaj sang. So basically, I wrote this song that I didn't use for mine, but the guy that I wrote it with, it wrote with Nicki a lot. And he was like, he texted me out of the blue and he was like, Nicki wants the song. And I was like,

Oh yeah. Um, and then he was like, yeah. And she wants you to keep you on it. I was like, Oh my God, this is like insane.

Big dream. Like the amazing. And I think she's amazing rapper. And then like accidentally i was like the only person that wasn't featured on the record it was just one of those like clanger moments that like accidentally all didn't work out they would apologize whatever and they were like nikki would like you to sing it yo too with her um and i was like oh my god like me and nikki minaj are about to be best friends like that's it like she's gonna thank me for this beautiful record

and i'm gonna be like no sweat babe like you know we should yeah and i go and i go to soundcheck and they're like nicky's not coming to soundcheck i was like okay cool yeah i get that like she's a busy girl but like we're about to like fucking hug it out in the dressing room have my separate dressing room just like drinking my rider waiting twiddling my thumbs thumbs. And it gets to showtime and I'm like, oh cool, we're not meeting. The show's starting and I was like, fuck, the first time I'm going to meet her is on stage singing the song.

So I go on stage and they push me into it. Because it's like the arena. A big yeah, like a big, big yeah. First thing she says to me, she just goes, sing. And I was like, we're back to the play i was like shit okay and then that was it you never met her what the i know weird isn't it it's awful man but this is like american stuff i don't know i don't have much time for it so like i want to ask you like with actually this is a question from my friend sarah who's

really annoyed that i've got you on this because she was the person that told me about you sorry sarah yeah and so she has a few questions because i was like would you like me to ask him anything and she was like yes what is his um take on the uh uh og hip-hop versus trap music so there you go that's her question yeah man i mean i don't know it's difficult because i like you're obviously influenced by yeah yeah because i grew up on yeah i grew up on old school stuff i grew up on OG stuff. What's OG mean? OG's like original gangster, but just like original.

It's like, you know, the truthful 90s hip hop, which is, I guess it's like... It's got kind of more romance and it's got more musicality, maybe. Yeah, definitely. It's like, lyrically, it's very dense and it's beautiful. It's poetic, very poetic. And I guess trap music is more about the production, I suppose, kind of in a diplomatic answer. But I don't really, like, trap music is, you know, it's party music and I think they are separate more about the production I suppose kind of in a diplomatic answer but I don't really

like trap music is you know it's party music and I think they are separate in my eyes they're just separate genres because you can't everyone says it's like it's derived from hip hop

which it is loosely but it has none of the urgency of telling a story that's beautiful do you know what I mean it's just like oh I'm talking I guess there's

less talk about love and more talk about one night stands in trap music which is kind of the difference I mean you love to talk about love and family yeah because it's important are you in love? yeah one night stands in track music. I mean, you love to talk about love and family. Yeah,

because it's important. Are you in love? Yeah. Can we talk about this? No, because it's my thing. Of course it is. But yeah,

I'm just a happy young man. Good. That's all we need to talk about on that. I mean, yeah, just to kind of talk about this year, like, and to say,

yeah, I've seen you every, literally, mum, now that you know about them. I'll know him. No, but you'll've seen you everywhere. Literally, Mum, now that you know about Ben. I'll know him. No, but you'll see him everywhere. And Mum, I think the most important thing

that we need to talk about, Ben interviewed Cantona. Eric Cantona. Yeah, yeah, yeah, last week. Ooh, ah. Cantona. Can I give you a hug? I'm coming around.

He's my favourite, lovely... He's my love. He was on... Are you a United fan no I'm a Liverpool fan I should have I should have why are you so in love

with Eric tell your story why didn't I get the call he was on Radio 4 last week promoting his book promoting his book and talking about

how he thinks that Guardiola should have been managing United yeah yeah sorry can you tell us about that? Yeah, yeah.

Is he handsome or does he look a bit older? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Debonair. Debonair. He's, yeah, so he, basically, so the story goes that my dad was a big Man United fan. Right.

And therefore I was a Liverpool fan to wind him up. I was like, I'm sorry. That's not funny. I'm sorry, I know it's not funny. It's awful. But we like, it was like a beautiful rivalry

between me and him. And when he passed away, I wrote this song about him and I called it Cantona kind of as like the ultimate sacrifice because if I was kind of

kind of talking taking tributes from his favourite player kind of saying I guess what he meant to me what Cantona meant to him but also you know

I could talk about a Man United player and that was that's how much I cared that I could take the wrath of every Liverpool fan I knew and then he had like a Cantona

Eric Cantona football shirt and so I brought it to every show and every show I have I have it around my shoulders and I've played yeah I've played like hundreds of shows

and every show I have it's around my neck and I talk about it I talk about the song Cantona and yeah so for a long time I didn't think I was ever going to get to meet him

and then it turned out I got a tweet from someone saying who saw me at a show in Paris they were like you know my mum is the agent

of Cantona and he's coming to Manchester would you like to meet him and I thought I was just going to come to the book signing and just be in the queue and say hey I'm a big fan

and instead the BBC wanted to shoot something for the Premier League show and it all fell on the same day so I ended up kind of not interviewing him

because I didn't ask any questions I just talked at him for like an hour but yeah we hung out and he gave me his number and he gave me a hug can you give it to me

I will anytime anytime he's a handsome number and he gave me a hug can you give it to me I'll do it anytime anytime he's a handsome man is he married yeah I don't think poetic I think I'm older than him

you're definitely older than him I don't know I don't know I think you're the same yeah I think I am mum I mean do you know when he kicked

that palace fan yeah I didn't blame him but we spoke about that what did he say I didn't blame him he was being yeah he said provoked yeah but he's full of passion so my mum was a Crystal Palace fan yeah I didn't blame him but we spoke about that what did he say I didn't blame him he was being yeah he said

prevent yeah but he's full of passion so my mum was a Crystal Palace fan my dad was a United fan so he was the perfect thing he was the perfect person in my house to cause trouble

but he just said actually when he when he was banned from that he went and learned how to play trumpet for six months or whatever when he was banned

I didn't know that he's the man he is he's really intelligent yeah truly he said the only other thing he said he didn't talk about sardines and trawlers no no no none of that he didn't talk about seagulls seagulls

the seagulls followed the sardines don't they the only other thing he said he said if you're if you're a man and you're handsome and then you realize you're handsome you're no longer handsome that's what he told me that's a very good thing to say there's no point telling me mate because i'm not handsome but i said thank you for that if you are handsome and you think you're handsome you are no longer handsome I love him so much it's like he's in the room I love him

no we're United fans we're big United fans you're more better than being a City fan aren't you really should we eat something yeah because

otherwise you're I'll just be quite drunk. So what is this? A latke is just really grated onion, grated potato, onion, egg. What do you think it tastes like? It tastes like a hash brown. It's delicious.

It tastes like an extravagant hash brown. Like if you went to a really fancy place for breakfast. Slightly wet. Is there egg in it? Yeah, it's got egg in it. It's delicious. Thank you. You can serve it with sour cream. Tell what the chicken is.

The chicken is... It's done with apricot, preserved, and actually, it's a big treat thing. You put onion soup mix, and you put... I don't even know where you get onion soup mix from. I had to order it in. Are you watching MasterChef?

The professionals. I am indeed. Did you see the chef that did the pasta and he rolled it in a roll? Oh, my mum told me about this and I didn't get a chance to see this one. Oh, it was amazing. So instead of... You know when you roll out pasta and you roll it and it comes out and then you put it back in again.

He made it into a roll. So it was a circle going round and round and round. He kept stretching it and stretching it. I tell you Marcus Waring just looked at him and said I've never seen anything like that. It's the best thing. That's genius though. And he went off last night. No. Spoiler.

No his pudding It didn't set What a shame But that's the thing Because that's the only thing That gets long about Making a pasta Is when you have it Yeah

When I've been doing it You get to have it Outside of the room Yeah so he puts it on a ring And he kept going like this That's genius Just moving it round and round But that's genius

Because I've never figured out How you would do it on your own Yeah so there Do that I will do that But mum you've never Done made pasta I've watched it No but you've never Made pasta your own. Yeah, so there, do that. I will do that. But mum, you've never done, made pasta. I watched it.

No, but you've never made pasta. I bet I could do. I bet you could. You could do. I'll send you my recipe. I've got a wicked book called Mastering Pasta. Yeah, I'll send it to you. I've got two copies of it.

Thank you. No worries. What recipes do you teach at your cookery school? We've been trying to make stuff that's healthy, but exciting. So we did like a chicken ramen. Oh, nice. We did homemade pasta. We made that's healthy, but exciting. So we did like a chicken ramen. Oh, nice. We did like, we did homemade pasta. We made homemade pasta, pesto pasta. There's a fight, actually,

it's a bit of a ridiculous story. We made food. We made the pesto pasta. And I'm allergic to nuts and one of the kids is allergic to nuts. So we made the one pesto out of all of them that's not got any nuts in it. And I tried one of the kids one.

They were like, oh, try it. And I thought it was Eric, the kid I was working with. It was a different kid. I think it was Myers or whatnot. Shout out to Myers it and I tried one of the kids they were like oh try it and I thought it was Eric the kid I was working with it was a different kid I think it was Myers or what not shout out to Myers and I tried it

and it had pine nuts in it and I knew well I was about to pass out but I had like a I was supposed to have an interview with the guardian about the cooking school

like five minutes later so the guy arrived and I went to chat to him you were in anaphylactic shock so I went to chat to him and I was like close to passing out like was super dizzy

and couldn't kind of keep my head straight was talking and talking and talking and talking utter nonsense and then was like so I've got to chat to him and I was like close to passing out Like was super dizzy and couldn't kind of keep my head straight Was talking and talking and talking and talking Utter nonsense And then was like I've got to go to the toilet Got up, walked upstairs and passed out Like on top of the stairs As I opened the door

Don't you have a nappy pad? I do but I didn't have it with me And I got found like 15 minutes later Very stupid My missus keeps it now So I'm safe My mum's got one, my missus got one And my tour manager has one

I do have one but I can't use it on myself Because there's no point in me having it Because I just have it in my pocket I know. My missus keeps it now, so I'm safe. My mum's got one, my missus got one, and my tour manager has one. I do have one, but I can't use it on myself, because there's no point in me having it, because I just have it in my pocket. But aren't you supposed to use it as soon as you get the first sign? Yeah, I think so, but I just have,

I take Pyroton, because usually that kind of keeps me, keeps it at bay. But yeah, I passed out, and then got found a little bit later, and went down to, there was a few, what's lucky about the cooking school

is all the accidents that happened, happened to me, so that happened to me. I chopped the top of my finger off as well. Shit. Yeah. I'm going to faint. It's alright, it's I chopped the top of my finger off as well. Shit. Yeah. Don't tell, I'm going to faint. You can't see it, it's all right.

It's just like, I chopped through the, so it's growing back now. But I chopped through my nail there, like on the side, so about half of my nail came off. Yeah. But I taught, I just tied it up and kept teaching. Are you gonna have like guest chefs come in? Hopefully, hopefully, yeah.

I've got a few, I've made a few mates, a few like, Yeah. Come on, come on, come on got a few, I've made a few mates, a few like, a few... Come on, come on, come on, drop some fucking names. Dish the dirt. My mate is, oh, for goodness sake, just a friend. Okay, just a friend. Come on. Heston Blumenthal. Oh, just a friend. Fuck off.

So you're going to eat snail porridge. Yeah, yeah. So we, basically the story goes, because he's got ADHD as well, and I, there was a little article of mine about the cooking school in the Guardian's monthly foodie magazine. Was this after the... Was this the anaphylactic interview?

Yeah, this is the anaphylactic interview, exactly. And he was the cover story. So his cover story finished and the next page was mine. And so the day after it came out, he gave me a call and was like, hey, I've just seen your piece on the cooking school. Would love to get involved.

Let's hang out. So I went to his house to play ping pong. I had some food. Did he cook? What did he cook? He just made me a mango and was like, hey, I've just seen your piece on the cooking school. We'd love to get involved. Let's hang out. So I went to his house to play ping pong. I had some food. Did he cook? What did he cook? He just made me a mango lassi. That was it. It was good, though.

It was really good. Interesting. Was he like, are you thirsty? Would you like a mango? I've never offered a mango lassi. We were just shooting some shit. Pinging some pong, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

shoot some shit and we just like, give me a leg. Ping and some pong, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So where are you spending Christmas? Spending Christmas at home with my mum and my little brother. What will you eat? Yeah, just, well not just, solely because they're the only things that matter. Oh, and actually at home. No, but will loads of people come round?

No, no, my family's really small these days, so a lot of my family pass away. But what's really interesting is, it's a bit of a weird story, but my mum had a weird story but my mum had a niece so my mum's oldest brother who passed away sadly he had a daughter

when he was really young and no one knew about her because he gave up for adoption when he was like 17 and she is now 45

and she found me through my music wow because she kind of clocked her she found out her surname when she got to a certain age

and then she saw my surname was, you know, just a play on that. And so yeah, she's coming around for Christmas dinner which would be nice

because we haven't had family over for ages. So you've got four people? Yeah, so before, what am I cooking? What is the, are you cooking?

I cook, yeah, yeah. So I make fish for my mum because my mum only eats fish and then my brother only likes beef so I do beef

and then sometimes I do a turkey if more people are coming but I just do for this time I might do do you cook Christmas dinner every year

only for the last like two years because I eat meat now and so like my mum I didn't want to make my mum cook meat my mum is like shoving my

cooking me in the room but yeah so that's what we're doing and then I'm going for New Year's I'm going with my missus to Edinburgh that'd be lovely yeah why um because i'm half scottish you have a song

called the isle of aran i do have a song called the isle of aran i had a boyfriend on the isle of aran yeah isle of aran really it's the best it's the most beautiful yeah the most beautiful place um just on the just on the kind of so i grew up on well my granddad so i grew up in presswick on the in in glasgow and he used to spend all of his summers um on isle of so I grew up on well my granddad so I grew up in Prestwick in Glasgow and he used to spend all of his summers on Isle of Anne so just kind of

you have to go from that horrible Ardrossan yes it's the worst port we missed two flights because of that

it's awful I once got stuck there I went up on Boxing Day no two days before New Year's Eve and I thought I was going to be there

for New Year's Day I end up in a hotel where I had to cook the breakfast because the man was so drunk that he actually went to bed and there were four people and I ended up cooking breakfast in the kitchen.

Fantastic. Did you get paid? You should have got paid. No, but I was just glad to get out. I thought I wasn't going to get out. It was crazy though because it was really weird and we put this song out.

I put this song out called Isle of Arran and everybody from Isle of Aaron because there's not that many people there. Everybody from there. Loved it. Everyone got in touch. Oh, we love the song.

Please come. And we went back there to shoot a little documentary about the Isle of Aaron. And everywhere we went, everyone was like, oh, you're the guy. You're the rapper.

You're the rapper from Isle of Aaron. That's brilliant. Do you want some of Jesse's pudding? Oh, fuck yeah. Yeah, please. I don't think this is going to be very good. You're going to have to turn it out, darling, onto a big plate.

Mum, I'm really upset that you made me do the pudding when it's going to be... I'm excited. No, babe, don't be excited. I'm not. Well, I am. It's so caramelised now.

It looks good. Yeah. Smells good. What's it? It's noodle cake, right? It's noodle cake. It's really weird. I don't know, babe.

Look at it bubbling away. Yeah, but look how upset the apples don't look caramelised. They don't need to, they don't need to. Is this for me? Oh wow! It's a bit like bread and butter pudding but made with noodles. Made with egg pasta. It smells great.

Delicious. Can I ask you any pet peeves you have when you're out, dinner, like table manners? Eating with people who chew with their mouth open oh really you didn't do that I feel like we've probably been winning

Alex says I I just went away with my son and he told me I ate with my mouth I talked with my mouth no that's different that's different

I couldn't help it because he asked me a question he's having a conversation no no this is you know when you're eating and someone's just going okay I hate that

it's the worst. I had it on the train today when I was eating an apple. Did you just tell him? No, apples are the worst. My friend's got a phobia of people eating apples. Really?

Yeah. Which one's that? Because it's so loud. Because it's just so... She can't look at people eating apples. That's really weird. That's something really not right. What's her name?

Harriet. Harriet, yeah. That's weird, Harriet, if you're listening. Loyal Karner. Ben thank you so much for being on Table Manners. It's been such a pleasure.

A true pleasure. And I wish you all the luck in the world with your cookery school and also your wonderful music career. Thank you very much. And mum I think you're

going to have to listen to him now. I'm going to listen to you but I want to meet your mum. Yeah you can that's true. Because I think we'd get on really well. Yeah you really would. I just know I like her to meet your mum. Yeah, you can, that's true. Because I think we'd get on really well. Yeah, you really would. I just know I like her, even without meeting her.

Yeah, you would. No, I actually love you. You can have a night on the town. So we can have Christmas together next year. Yeah, yeah, deal. Yeah, deal. Deal. We'll be here.

Mum, we tried something. You know, we're still in the early fruition days. The embryonic days embryonic days of our podcast career yeah we tried a theme maybe we don't need the thing i think i shouldn't drink quite so much before i mean the frying when i was trying to speak to him about his is his artistic integrity and i've got the fucking lacquer frying in the background. And I'm telling you to shut up. And he's just walked in.

It was integral. Integral or integral? Integral to my knee. Are you drunk? No. My neck's sore now. Oh, mum. Oh, my God.

What a pleasure to have Loyal Kana on. He was divine. I could see him as a big actor. Yeah, I mean, the world is a oyster. Yeah, he's really talented. He's got that X factor. Well, clearly people pick up on that because he is asked to do lots of different stuff. Yeah.

Cantona. I know, I'm a bit jealous about that. Cantona. Can't get over him. And he's a Liverpool supporter. I know. The thing that I think is so impressive is he's 23 and he's so kind of in control of his career

and he's so assertive and self-assured, but not in an arrogant way. The fact that he adores his mum, of course, makes him almost extra special, don't you think? I love that he says that all his gigs are basically him bigging up his mum. Jessie, take note. Oh, fuck.

By the way, if you've been enjoying the music on the show it was created by my good friends Peter Duffy and Pete Fraser