Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - Ep 7: Sandi Toksvig

Episode Date: December 20, 2017

Radio 4’s finest, QI darling, radical history rewriter and one of the most inspiring women I have ever met... Sandi Toksvig drops by mum’s for this week’s Table Manners. The Bake-Off drinking game, Wikipedia's male bias, Paul Hollywood's eyes, Christmas dinner in Denmark… Trust me, we cover it ALL.  Produced by Alice Williams for Cup and Nuzzle Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Peloton all-access membership separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. Welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with my lovely mother. You don't mean that at all. I don't today, actually. No, because you've not helped enough. Getting the shopping in. What are you talking about? Little red hen. That's who I am.

I am. Oh, we're finally showing the strains of our relationship. Okay, so I think we've got one of the most exciting guests of this series. It's my absolute dream. Would you like to introduce this person? Tonight we've got the wonderful, fantastic goddess that is Sandy Toxford. And I'm so excited. I'm a bit nervous.

I feel like I'm not intellectual enough for this evening's chat. You're probably not. I'm probably going to have to hold the fort a bit. Mum's going to put on her Radio 4 Guardian voice for you. That's what... So, Sandy, what is your opinion on Brexit? I'm not going to ask her that. No, what are you going to ask about?

I'm going to talk about Paul Hollywood. And his blue eyes. And his blue eyes. Please don't talk about that. I don't think she's interested in Paul Hollywood's blue eyes. I'm more interested in what I've been told she's doing, rewriting history. More about that coming up. Yes.

For people that don't know who Sandy Toksvig is... How can they not know, darling? Well, she's a household name. I'm not going to lie. Darling, if you've watched Bake Off, you will know who she is. But you would have known her before if you listened to Radio 4. Well, this is the thing. I was on a TV show with her called The Last Leg.

Yes. And they said Sandy Toksvig on it. And I boycotted this year's British Bake Off because it wasn't on BBC anymore. I was pissed off. So I didn't watch Bake Off this year. So I didn't know who Sandy Toksvig was. You didn't know. But I do because her voice is so familiar.

And it's from listening to her on Radio 4. I know. The news quiz died. I know, I know. But anyway, I felt like a bit of an idiot and we hit it off. I fell in love, really fell in love, and managed to get her mobile phone number and managed to invite her on Table Manners.

I'm so thrilled. Yeah. And I think I've done one of my haute cuisine meals tonight. Do you want to take us through the menu, Mum? I've done Lebanese lamb, which is butter fried and you only cook for 45 minutes. Easy.

What do you mean easy? Well, no, just an easy one for a hostess. Yeah. Well, it is because I marinated it yesterday. And then we've done a warm winter salad with aubergine and spinach. And sundry tomatoes and tahini. Yeah. And pine nuts.

And then we've done butternut squash. With the butternut squash we've done pink peppercorns, which we get from Skopelos in Greece. They're really difficult to find here. They are. And we've kept the seeds in, which is always really good. You can roast the butternut squash seeds. We've put some cinnamon sticks in there, loads of olive oil. It's really nice.

So this is going to be, I guess, a Middle Eastern feast, and we can't wait for Sandy Toksvig coming up on Table Manners. Sandy Toksvig. Am I saying that correctly? Yeah, very good. Table manners. Sandy Tox V. Am I saying that correctly? Yeah, very good. Unless you're Danish, in which case you would say Sandy Tox V. Okay. We don't say the G, but the British find that almost impossible.

Okay, so Sandy Tox V. Yeah. Thank you so much for being on Table Manners. Well, I came for a free meal. And you shall get one. Can I tell you, half of my friends wanted to come round and wait on because they love you so much. This is, honestly, this has got the most kind of excitement and...

Yeah. Yeah, all mum's mates want to come round. Everyone wants to meet you and adores you. Going to let you down now. No way. Can I just, I just want to say, I've always adored you because I listen to Radio 4. So I've loved you long before Bake Off.

Thank you. And I thought I wouldn't love you as much once you went to Bake Off. Why? Because it wasn't on the BBC anymore. I thought I'm going to have a real struggle with this. But you're wonderful. Well, do you know what? Those bakers are amazing.

And you just fall in love with them. Although I didn't realise there's a drinking game did you know this? what? there's a drinking game on the internet if I cry you get two shots

I told you she cried all the time that's why you love her so much as well but I loved Liam oh well we all love Liam did everyone love Liam? everybody loved

so Liam comes from Hackney and he said he said you know the boys go off and they play football or maybe some of them get into trouble. He wanted to be the boy on the bus who bakes.

And that is the most admirable thing in the world. And when he was finally eliminated from the show, I said, what are you looking forward to? He said, I finally have the money to go to Nando's. Oh, bless you. He was so sweet and he was so good. He's charming. He's absolutely charming. I predict that he will have a very good career.

Do you think? Yeah, I do. What was he doing at university? Drama. Drama. Oh. Yeah, so. But he had such good ideas and they're all really original.

But I loved it that sometimes he would do something like, he did a thing, and I can't remember what the thing he was making was, and he said there was some sauce, because he'd made a thing um i can't remember what the the thing he was making was and he said there was some sauce because he'd made a thing that looked like pizza oh no he made did he make actual pizza and then he made dipping sauce which is for the pizza bones and both prue and paul went what are pizza bones and i thought wow that's pizza bones do you not know this it's a very yeah it's an american thing which is the edge of your pizza the crust, known as pizza bones, and you dip them into a sauce.

Well, I do like Domino's for their garlic dip that my boyfriend used to my now husband used to get extra sauce for the crust. For your pizza bones. That's really clever. But anyway, Paul and Brut look baffled by this.

Alien to them. Can we talk about Paul Hollywood for a second? Those eyes. He's so lovely. The eyes. Is he really gorgeous baffled by this. I was alien to them. Can we talk about Paul Hollywood for a second? Oh, he's my... Those eyes. He's so lovely. The eyes. Is he really gorgeous in real life?

He's a really lovely person. Is he? Yeah. Because he kind of has got this idea of... People think he's very handsome but not so nice.

He's charming. I knew it. He's charming. He's funny. We laugh and laugh and laugh. He's as loyal as the day is long. He's a. I knew it. He's charming. He's funny. We laugh and laugh and laugh. He's as loyal as the day is long. He's a really good friend. I don't like driving with him.

He drives too fast. He loves cars. I bet he's got a really fancy car, hasn't he? Every week. Yeah. He buys classic cars. Yeah, he also drives Formula One cars. You know, I mean, he's...

Bloody hell. Yeah. He once took me to the hotel and I had to go back for my stomach. It was terrifying. Can I ask, were you... And I'm sure you've been asked this a lot, but were you an avid baker before you got into...

No, no, I mean, I love to cook and so I've always baked in the way that the Danes will, you know, make stuff. It's quite a Danish tradition. Okay, so what are some of the Danish kind of traditions? make cinnamon buns I can say so nothing very exciting I make Christmas cake every year that kind of you know I was more German um but that's all right uh and what's your Christmas cake uh well I've made a traditional British because my mother's English so I make a traditional British one for her um but uh I I don't watch a lot of telly.

So I hadn't seen Bake Off. Shocking. So when they said, what do you like about the show? When I was first talking to them, I said, well, I like the bit where they bake. I didn't really have anything. I didn't really have anything. But maybe it's a good thing because I didn't try and be somebody the same. It was probably, yeah.

I mean, I was prepared not to love it. I didn't watch the first episode to show my solidarity with Mary and Sue and Mel. But then I just loved it, and it was just as good, if not better. Well, Noel Fielding is charming. He's sweet. He's a sweetheart. He's kind of an ingenue, isn't he? He's just like, I don't know, he's sweet he's a sweetheart he's kind of an ingenue isn't he

he's just he's just like I don't know he's like candy floss but like I mean it's really important that that chemistry was right wasn't it

because I guess because and fine you hadn't watched this you know Bake Off before but I'm sure it got filtered

to you you know Mel and Sue and to have the kind of chemistry well I'm friends with Sue so we've been friends for years

does she mind no the thing is we're all working it's a business it's a job we're all working you know I don't think we

sort of think like that really and you know she made the choice what she wanted to do it's not like I took her job yeah and they're lovely

I've worked with Mel they're all lovely people we're not really we all backstab I wouldn't like that but Prue and Paul and Noel and I honestly one of the nicest dysfunctional families I've ever belonged to

she's so glamorous Prue those statement necklaces so we've just been today we have a whatsapp group the gang of us. What's it called? The Gang of Four. Okay, nice. And so they're coming to my house, we've decided, for our Christmas lunch.

And there was much discussion about whether I'm going to make Danish food. Are they coming? Not on the Christmas day. We're having a separate Christmas day lunch. Okay, so who's cooking what? Well, I think I will do it. Do you think it's okay to cook for Prue? It's kind of nerve-wracking. We've got Votolenghi.

Oh, have you? Oh, my God. Nightmare when you do a lot of Votolenghi dishes. We planned six months in advance. How was it? It worked out. He's gorgeous. It worked out.

Have you met him? Oh, no. He looks at you and you think you are the most special person in the whole world. Whether you're a man, a woman, old, young. He's got that talent for making you feel special. He's very, and his husband's really funny because he says that everyone has this like pressure. Yeah. When they go around for dinner, they have to do this big thing, but actually they just want it simple.

They don't need an otolenghi dish. I was up at six in the morning picking lavender to make lavender shortbread okay that's quite didn't notice that yeah i'm not going to be doing that well it's not happening but um okay so who's so you're going to cook christmas dinner well i think i will do a more traditional danish meal which is to make special danish meatballs uh pickled red cabbage which takes it takes a couple of days to make it properly. And we put apple in it so that it's slightly sweeter. And we do a kind of potatoes which are called caramelized potatoes, which are like a heart attack on a plate,

and they are unbelievably delicious. So you boil the new potatoes and then put them to one side and then put sugar and butter in the pan and let the sugar melt right down. And then you recook side and then put sugar and butter in the pan and let the sugar melt right down. And then you recook the potatoes in the sugar and butter. So you get an outside coating of caramel and then inside it's just the soft potato. It's so delicious. You don't need onion in it?

Yeah, yeah. And what's it called? We just call them caramelized potatoes. I write it down for you. Are you a bit sick of cakes now? No, I mean, I just had a wonderful time. I mean, I put on weight, which is not a good potatoes. Jessie, take note. I'll write it down for you. Are you a bit sick of cakes now? No, I mean, I just had a wonderful time. I mean, I put on weight, which is not a good thing. Did you?

Yeah. Oh, you can't help yourself. But it's not filmed that... When is it filmed? In the summer. In the summer, yeah. Because it always looks lovely outside. Yeah, we'll start again in April in 2018.

But the thing that I think most people don't know, because you don't see it on the telly, but behind the tent, there's another tent, about half the size. That's my pussy cat. Pussy cat, hello. Where the home economists make the perfect perfect. So they make the...

Oh, they do the ones that Mary and... Mary or Prue... Prue and Paul have a look at. Don't speak about Mary in the south. No, she's lovely too. But they do the ones, the special ones. Just to make sure that everything that is being made in the tent can be made in the temperature and in the time and all those things.

But you had trouble with your chocolate. Yes, there was a lot of melting going on. With the melting, yeah. But what happens is, in order to get to the tent where I'm working, I have to walk through the tent where they're making all these perfect things. You've got to try it. You have to try it. And then they're left over when we film them.

So they're all just sitting there. Do you know what happens to all the cake that then is finished and nobody actually wants? What? Prue's pigs. Oh, my God. I know. That happened to your wedding cake. What?

It went to the pigs? It went to the goats and the hens and the geese. They had meringues. Meringues. Apparently the pigs will eat anything. Yeah. So we have a massive, the biggest Tupperware I've ever seen in my whole life and it just says bruised pigs on the side. I'd quite like to taste

one of Prue's pigs. It would be absolutely delicious. How many pigs does she have? I don't know. She probably could sell them the bacon for something special. You amaze me because you do everything no i you do you do theater can't do a forward roll it's the sin i've never mastered it i don't know i never saw the point of it i don't know why anybody would want to do it but it has annoyed me for my whole life i i can't seem to bend at the

neck i i literally stand on my head and fall over. That sounds really painful. Yeah. And many hours as a child made to strip down to your underwear and try and do this annoying thing. Can you dive? I can't dive into a swimming pool.

Diving into a swimming pool, I can't see the point of it. I'm going to say that from now on. I've always wanted to dive. I certainly can, but I can't see the point of it. I often say that about things. I can do sc scuba diving i can do can you yeah love that have you tried that no oh that is a thing you should try i don't like my face in the water i

think you will love it i did it but i used up all my oxygen more it was too quickly for the whole group because i was kind of nearly hyperventilating because i was so nervous so i was bobbing above everybody because you bob a little higher yeah and i so I was like so poor guys like I think they've got like a five minute swim with me so poor sods being on my team but it's amazing because you're under the water and it's like a bunch of art students decided to design everything where you are these amazing fishes incredible colors and where have you done that? All over the world, actually. Whenever I've been, you know, if I've been working away, so places like Florida and off the coast of Egypt.

Do you and your wife do it together? No, she's, weirdly, there's a thing I was saying to her the other day, I said, we should go off and do that. And she said, oh, you might take actual time off, that's an interesting concept. So that didn't go that well. Are you going to have a holiday soon then? We are going to. Surely you deserve one.

We're going to Copenhagen this weekend. Nice. With a couple of very good friends because it's my hometown. Will that be like a holiday then? I love it. The minute I get there, I just feel relaxed. There's something about the food of your childhood. Do not think.

There's something about the food that you grew up with that you just feel happy. You just feel happy. Yeah. So I will just introduce them to. I've booked a couple of restaurants that I know. Which ones have you booked? What's that famous one there? Noma.

Noma. Noma. Yeah. I've never, ever been able to get a table. What? No. We're ringing up right away. What really annoyed me.

It's a joke. No, but my son is 23. He went last month. He got a table. Shit. I don't know. Somebody needs to have a word. That's quite gross.

Have you ever seen their recipe book? Yeah. It's about this big. It's a coffee table book with the most beautiful... It's fantastic. I have to tell you, the food in Copenhagen is phenomenal. It's really good. It's phenomenal.

And I've got a couple of really good friends and I've taken them there before and we just wander about and drink coffee and I don't know what we do nothing really so what is the food from your childhood then like what was it that you grew up loving and eating I don't know so there's a thing it's just it's it's peasant food there's a thing called bixamal which means mixed up food um and it's when you have everybody has something they do with leftovers. Every single nationality has something they do with leftovers. So we chop up meat, we chop up potato, we chop up onions, and we chop up a tiny bit of apple.

We fry it all up together and you have a fried egg and beetroot. And it is phenomenal. Are you still acting? I don't get asked very often, so the last thing I did, I'm trying to think, I had a small part in called Midwife.

Amazing! In which I played a very stern nurse whose speciality was the iron lung. I remember that one. Okay, I didn't know anything about the iron lung,

and there was a lot of scenes where there was a boy trapped in an iron lung and I'm being one. Okay, I didn't know anything about the iron lung. And there was a lot of scenes where there's a boy trapped in an iron lung and I'm being the nurse. So you can just see me rather tentatively patting the iron lung in comforting ways if I'm ensuring that the thing is working. But I don't...

I played Emmeline Pankhurst in a sitcom called Up the Wind. Fantastic. But there isn't... It doesn't come up very often, unfortunately. I loved it. I love acting. That's how I started. I didn't start out to be anything that I am. I started out to be an actress.

Was that in Cambridge? Well, I was in The Footlights in Cambridge, which is a sort of review thing. But a director saw me in it. He said, come work for me for a year at the Nottingham Playhouse. And I did everything. I did musicals. I did Shakespeare.

Can you sing? Well, I can sing and act. Did you get the comedy part in the musicals? Always, yeah. I did musicals. I did Shakespeare. Can you sing? Well, I can sing and ask. Did you get the comedy part in the musicals? Yeah, always. What musicals did you do? I did The Boyfriend. I did Little Night Music. I don't know these ones. I've heard of The Boyfriend. Oh, Sondheim. Little Night Music is

a fantastic show, a Sondheim show. And The Boyfriend's an old English classic by Sandy Wilson. It's got some lovely numbers in it fabulous did you ever do Gilbert and Sullivan no I haven't done that

but I'm a fan I feel like you would be really good in Gilbert and Sullivan I wrote down Barrett's Penzance I could play the Major General

Ricardo you could be yeah amazing I loved acting and I think it gave me up rather than I gave it up

but you took over from our great friend Simon Hoggart doing the news quiz I worked with his wife. Was Simon a friend of yours? Really good friend. Yeah, he was.

And he was, yeah, a very good friend, yeah, for years and years. So you took over the news quiz and I, yeah, I loved it. That was fun. I've always loved the news quiz. I don't even know the man that's doing it now. Miles Jupp, he's very good. Oh, yes, I know. Miles Jupp, yeah, I know, he's very good.

But I had to give it up because I was about to become political. So I gave it up to found the Women's Equality Party. The fastest growing... Political party in the country. And still growing. Still growing. Yeah. Still growing.

And, well, we'll see. Does that take up a lot of your time? No, unfortunately it doesn't. The party's now two years old and it has to go off and do its thing so we have eight members of full-time staff now um we have offices and uh i have high hopes for it have you got any elected no it's it's really difficult um what i've understood just to be serious for a brief moment uh we don't have equality and we're probably unlikely to have equality for women for another 170 years which yn gyffredinol am bryd cyflym. Nid oes gennym eglwys ac mae'n debyg bod yn anodd i ni gael eglwys i ddynion am 170 mlynedd arall, sef lle rydyn ni arno. Pwy yw 170?

Dyna'r hyn y mae'r Fforwm Economaidd y byd yn ei ystyried, pa mor hir y bydd yn ei wneud. Ssshhh, mae hynny'n ddifrifol iawn. Os oes gennym ni'r eglwys, byddai'n berthnasol i £70 miliwn i'r economi Brydeinig. Byddai'n berthnasol iawn iawn ac yn well i bawb, nid dim ond yn well i ddynion, yn well i ddynion. Mae'n well i bawb. Beth rwyf wedi deall yw bod pwer sy'n gysylltiedig yn union â'r amrywiaeth and better for everybody, not just better for women, better for men. What I've understood is that power is exactly related to the amount of money you have. How much can you leaflet? How much can you reach people through advertising?

How much can you persuade through having lots of people on social media and so on? And we're poor. Like most women, by comparison to the bulk of men, we get paid on average 9.3% less. So women are poorer. So our party is poorer. If we had more money, I think we would get an elected official sooner. But I promise you we will.

Can't you get, what's her name, from J.K. Rowling involved? I should do. Yeah, she's amazing. She's a huge... She's quite philanthropic, involved i should do yeah she's she's amazing she's a few that was her but she's such um she's she's quite philanthropic and she believes in the power of women but she's a very powerful part of the labour party is she still the thing about it is that we are available to anybody whether you are from whichever political party because we're not party political the point is we're trying to

get some things sorted and once we've got them sorted, then our job will be done. We're not from the left, we're not from the right. We'd like everybody to work together and try and solve some of these problems. What was the report out today that a fifth of people in this country are living in poverty? It was the Roundtree Foundation report out today. A fifth. It's not good enough.

It's not good enough. It's not good enough. It's not good enough for our children. It's not good enough for the pensioners. I forget how many more hundred thousands of pensioners are living in poverty and the children who are living in poverty. And I would just love to see the parties not fighting but all working together. And that's part of what we're trying to do

is to get people to talk to each other. It's not just about women's rights. It's about equality generally in all areas. Equality in all areas, in all aspects of life. Yeah. So I'll give you a really good example. I had a friend of mine who I was with who wasn't feeling well, a woman,

and I said, are you all right? And she was vomiting and she was shaking. And I said to her, I think you're having a heart attack. And she said, no, no, no, no, I don't have left arm pain and I don't have the tight band around my, you know, all the stuff that you see advertised. Anyway, I said, because I'm bossy, we're going to the hospital. Went to the hospital. She was having a heart attack. How did you know?

I don't know. I think I'd read something. So women's symptoms for heart attacks are not the same. They're different than for women. And it's not advertised. It's not advertised. So it's things like that that would literally save somebody's life. Right. Mae'r ddifrifon am atrofiadau ymddygiad yn wahanol ac nid yw'n cael ei gyhoeddi. Nid yw'n cael ei gyhoeddi. Felly mae pethau fel hynny, a fyddai'n ddiogelu bywyd rhywun,

nid yw'n cael ei gyhoeddi. Felly mae'r unrhyw bethau yn y... Gwleidyddiaeth o fewn meddyg, er enghraifft, fyddai'n un o'n pethau bwysig rydyn ni'n ceisio ei wneud. Ond rwy'n credu y gallwn fod yn y partïau a fydd yn effeithio ar newid. Nid wyf yn gofyn os bydd y partïau Llywodraeth, neu'r partïau Torri, neu unrhyw partïau yn gadael ein polisïau. Ond fel y byddant yn eu gwneud, rwy'n iawn gyda hynny. party that will affect change and i don't care if the labour party or the tory party or any party steals our policies as long as they make them happen i'm fine with that absolutely fine can we also talk about rewriting history yes please can you introduce it something to eat yes all right but first let's talk about this rewriting history please introduce it sandy this is so important so one of the things that i'm obsessed with is the fact that wikipedia uh is now is rapidly becoming the go-to thing on the internet for kids doing their homework people

wanting to know anything about history and so on so roughly nine percent of the people who contribute to wikipedia are female and 91 are male and the proportions of material on Wikipedia is exactly the same 91% of the content is about men and their fabulous activities and 9% is about women and women from why is that is it just because women don't contribute I think you know you could have to generalize you'd have to women don't contribute yes but women are literally being left out of history. That is what's happening. Because the content is so overwhelmingly male. So I'm obsessed with women's history.

It's one of my great passions. And I give talks. Is that what you did at university? No, I read to be a human rights lawyer. Did you? Yeah. But I'm obsessed with women's history. And I am writing a show, which I'm very much hoping that be doing come and do um where we will tour around the country and it'll be funny and jolly and it'll

say the bits of women's history that you don't know about and the bits that have been left out and the stuff around the world and then I'm hoping to get every single member of the audience to commit to putting another woman into Wikipedia so my plan is to literally rewrite history so every audience member yeah is encouraged and maybe like do they have to well we're working on um well they don't have nobody has to you know it's not a i'm just thinking i would be able to put up that wouldn't be up there i'm racking my brains i feel like i'm an imbecile would be surprised i think you would be surprised i i um i was just reading some other musicians before I came out, and I wanted to look them up, and I looked them up on Wikipedia,

and they weren't there. I think you'd be surprised, the people who are not there. And I also think that the standard of what we think is a woman sufficiently important may be different to the standard of men think this man is so important he must be but also i think there is a problem for women in music because i think you get more notice by the amount of clothing you wear um and rather than your voice but it was how you look rather than how you sing and how you perform i mean my general the general consensus was that people didn't want to write about me

because my story wasn't sexy enough, that I'd gone to have a baby and written an album about my family and that I'd written an album in her first year. It wasn't, like, an exciting enough story. Okay, so... I thought it was the best thing I've ever done. But here's what's really interesting about that,

is that the impressionists, so if you think about the impressionists that come into your head, and Cezanne and Pizarro, people like that, they thought the best impressionist of all was a woman called Mary Cassatt. And Mary Cassatt never got the big shows and never got the big reviews because she painted pictures of domesticity. Because she painted babies being bathed and women going about their chores because that was her life and the

paintings are fabulous and the other painters thought she was the best but she didn't get so nothing has changed nothing has changed if you go off and have a baby and do all those things and still want to be an artist and express yourself that hasn't changed in 100 years 200 years or whatever you follow in a long, noble line... Brilliant. ..of extraordinary women who did do that. But at least you've been brave enough to say, when people have said,

you should wear this, that and the other, you've said, no way, I'm not wearing that. So my stepdaughter, who's a wonderful person, this band shall remain nameless, she went to see a women's singing group. And I saw some photographs from the concert. I didn't go to the group. And I saw some photographs. I didn't go to the concert, but I saw some photographs and I was horrified by what they were wearing.

It looks like bondage. I just thought, she's 12 and she admires you. No, I know. Don't wear that stuff. But it makes me sound old-fashioned, so it makes me sound... No, I don't think it does. I think it's a real worry. Trust your music.

Trust your music and use that. I know. Do you want to eat something? Shall we eat something? Yeah This looks heaven Jessica Jessica Have you gone mad?

You put bloody oil all over it Jessie that's not even You don't even know where the olive oil's from. It's not your olive oil. It looks lovely. It's just late Como olive oil. Fuck off mum, it's just a bit of olive oil. Nobody gets angry about it. Jesus Christ! The f***ing olive oil!

Feels like I'm in the family room. Feels like I'm in the family now. You took a very polite portion. We're Jewish. We force feed. Sandy, I'm so happy. Can I just say, Sandy's having seconds and we all are. It's delicious. Where did you grow up in America?

In New York. Well, most of my childhood was in New York, yeah. Both your parents were in broadcasting? In New York. Well, most of my childhood was in New York, yeah. Both your parents were in broadcasting? Mm-hmm. My dad became foreign correspondent. He was foreign correspondent for Danish television, but he was the only one. It's a very small country.

We couldn't afford two. So we went to New York because that's where the UN is. And that way he could report on any story around the world from the UN. And so we used to do it because it was all on film then, right? Because there wasn't any digital stuff. He would finish his film, and then we would go, quite often the whole family, just for an outing to JFK Airport in New York,

and we would go to the queue, people waiting to go to Copenhagen on the plane, and go down the queue and see if anybody would take the film in a can back to well take it back to Copenhagen to be edited and put on the news so even a big story from America would take a minimum of 24 to 36 hours um to get back so there was never it was never a rush but I remember that going up and down the queue just seeing if anybody would like to hit the news home. You're listening to Table Manners with me, Jessie Ware, and my mother, Lemmy. Sandy, we like to ask our guests,

what is your worst table manner of other people? Sometimes, if you're in a restaurant and they have a paper napkin, people will blow their nose on the paper napkin and then put it on the plate. That is so vile. No, I've probably done that. It makes me feel sick. I wish I hadn't eaten. I wish I'd feel ill.

I know exactly what you mean. And there's something about... Good job, Jessie. How do I do that on our day? Other people's body fluids. It's not nice for the waiter, is it? No, it's terrible. Because that poor waiter has got to scrape the plate.

I just think it just is not what a napkin is for. It is not a tissue. You wouldn't do it. Why? Do you think that? What do you think? I think you're very accurate and I now feel embarrassed if I have ever done that and I think I probably have done that.

If you do do it, then use the paper. Put it in your bag. No, I probably have put it in my pocket. I'd like to say. Why don't you put it back on your plate? I love how quick you had your answer. Some people are like, oh, you know, I'm like easy breathing. I want to know your favourite restaurant. In the world? Yeah. Well, when I was a child in Copenhagen, we used to go to Tivoli Gardens, which are in the heart of the city. Is it still there? Yeah, yeah. And there's a restaurant called Grøften, which just means the ditch, really.

And it's probably the oldest restaurant in Tivoli. And the food is, honestly, it's not like anything that you'd go, wow, it's the most amazing meal. It's just the restaurant of my childhood. And my father was phenomenally famous. He was the most famous man in Denmark. And in those days, so I was born in 1958, this is the early 60s, if you went into the restaurant with my father,

all the men would stand up, click their heels, and bow their heads until he sat down. Oh, wow. And I always think of it when I go there. How lovely. So when are we going to Copenhagen on the Saturday night? I've booked Koften, and it'll be the Christmas market time

in the Tivoli Yard what's your what's a Danish Christmas meal do you eat on Christmas Eve we celebrate Christmas Eve yeah we take all day

preparing the meal we have roast duck roast duck and red cabbage and caramelised potatoes and rice pudding is there a special ingredient for rice pudding

or is it just yeah it's I mean it's made of shed loads of cream and it has to be proper pudding rice and then you chop up lots of almonds to put in it and then one whole almond and the person who wins or finds the whole almond in their rice pudding wins the marzipan pig and it has a

red cherry sauce on top uh but it's black tie everybody has to dress up and uh it's in the evening um on christmas eve christmas eve so we have dinner and uh then uh the ladies all go into another room and uh the boys light the real candles on the tree um and then they ring a bell and the ladies come in and go oh first tree ever and we all hold hands and we sing um around the tree and then we sit down and then the youngest person, not probably my grandson is too young, but the youngest person gives out the presents and they're all given out one at a time and

we have to watch each present be unwrapped and it takes forever by which time some of the grown-ups are a little bit tiddly by the end but it's lovely, the ladies wear red and the gentlemen wear tuxedos. So what are you wearing? You're out there.

I haven't got anything yet. My wife will sort something out. No, but can we just take a moment? When I first met Sandy, she had the best Air Maxes on I've ever seen. Pink suede Air Maxes. They were phenomenal. Would I like them? You would, Mum.

They were so cool. I'm wearing my G-Ox at the moment. They were very cool. But Would I like them? You would, Mum. They were so cool. I'm wearing my geox at the moment. They were very cool. But am I being stupid? But how do you light a real candle on a Christmas tree? I'm just wondering how that works. How special were our holders? And they're beautiful.

And they're made, the ones that we have, I've been collecting them over the years. There's a silversmith in Denmark called Georg Jensen. George Jensen. Oh, yeah. George Jensen, yeah. He's famous. Yeah, and they make two new candle holders every year

and I've been collecting them for years so that my children eventually will have enough. Oh, gorgeous. And so it has a little hook and then a counterweight that hangs down and each year there's a different shape. It might be an angel or a star or a Christmas bell or whatever. And then a white candle goes in.

So the counterweight stops the candle from, and it hangs on the brooch. If you haven't seen a Christmas tree fully lit with candles it is you need to it's one of the most I will on Christmas Eve I will text you a picture of the tree it is one of the most beautiful things

and that moment when we all hold hands and we sing old Danish songs that's a really I love that moment that sounds like a very special romantic Christmas yeah it's nice can I just ask

what will you do on Christmas day recover from Christmas Eve right build things there's always things that need building

it really is find batteries like tricycle yeah you'll be doing something for so when do you guys what do you celebrate

well we're Jewish I know so we celebrate everything we celebrate anything you can have a party you can have a thing? Well, we're Jewish. I know. We celebrate everything. We celebrate anything. You can have a party and you can have a thing. But this year we're not going to be together because I'm going away with my other daughter. Okay.

And she's based in LA and we're going to Hawaii. I've always wanted to go. Me too. But next year I think we'll have one here. Do your in-laws celebrate? Oh yeah, they love it. They'll do, they'll do, they're in Dorset, they're in Bridport and they'll do like,

I still find it funny having like the gammon, they'll like have a gammon on the side. We've never ever eaten gammon in our lives. So, but I like it.

You do eat bacon, darling. I know, but I do like the gammon. It's really good. Can you beat the cream, darling, and put a bit of... So so so mum decided to bake for you

sandy i've never baked because you're because i'm the bake-off i've never baked a bloody thing in my life well i'm i went to a friend's house and she made a clementine cake oh which you probably had no did anyone do it and bake off no okay so you you bake the clementine cake you boil three clementines for two hours right and then you mush them all up and put them with ground almonds and sugar and eggs that's your clementine cake and it looks not too bad sounds delicious before we tuck in sandy toxic sandy yeah. Thank you so much for coming and taking a chance on a rather enthusiastic member, you know, guest.

Fan, basically. Okay, but you know you owe me now, right? I do owe you. So I have never, ever been part of any music scene whatsoever. And at the very least, I want to come on. You've got to come to the stage. Plug in your microphone or something. Basically, Sandy on the last leg,

quite maybe stupidly, I'm really happy, offered to judge a bake-off because what I've done on my tours before, I was hungry one day and I decided, I was a big fan of bake-offs and I decided to do a competition and it kind of all got out of hand and I got quite fat.

And Sandy learned about this and she thought it would be a really good idea to judge. So anybody who's coming to, it's going to be probably a London show, I think. Yeah, I think so. There are two shows, so you may be, you don't know, if you're coming, then you may, if you want to bake, then Sandy will be judging a bake-off on stage. And actually, do you know what? You and I are a very good example, which I really, what I love, there's lots of things I love about life. I'm endlessly enthusiastic about life. What I love is you never know when the next friendship is around the corner.

Well, Sandy, here, here, cheers to that. Honestly, I am so happy to have met you and to have stolen you for this. But honestly, thank you so much for being on this. I've got a free meal. I can't wait to see the Christmas tree. I'm going to text you. And yeah. I'll see you in Copenhagen.

Cheers to our newfound friendship. Where's mum? Cheers. Mum, cheers. Oh, cheers. I've brought my 17 cake. Oh, that looks fabulous. You do.

Cheers. Cheers. Thank you so much, Sound Det fabulous. You do. Cheers. Cheers. Thank you so much, Sandi Toxins. Happy Christmas. Happy Christmas. Cheers. Happy Hanukkah. Mum?

What? Should you go first or shall I? You can go first. No, you go first. I love her. I love her so much. Me too. She's a goddess.

She's just... The best. Just very easy company. Just so clever. Tells you all you need to know about everything. You put your radio full voice on for her, you know that? Did I? You did.

It's because I've heard her. The news, the news. My good friend Simon Hoggart. Oh, shut up. I've heard her on Radio 4. Oh, Radio 4. Shut up, Jessie. I love to listen to it.

I thought it was my best meal. It was good. All I'll say, it was delicious. Shit. It was delicious, except for the oil you put on the... No, the olive oil was perfect. Yeah.

All I'll say is I would have loved a little gravy. Jessie, Lebanese people don't have gravy. It was moist lamb. It was cooked for 40 minutes. It was really good, Mum. Jessie, the cake. Let's talk about the cake. Let's talk about the cake.

It was gorgeous. A success. A massive success. Massive. I asked her A massive success. Massive. I asked her... Maybe you are a baker. No. I asked her, is this good enough for bake-off?

And she just looked at me and she said, no. She went, darling, come on. How could she have said that? I feel like we could have spoken for hours and I feel like she teaches you something and you learn and we're all going to I feel a bit embarrassed none of us are involved in

the Women's Equality Party you know what and if you're listening instead of rating us five stars maybe you should go and just join the Women's Equality Party and make a difference she's inspiring, that woman. Mum, I really feel like we're getting the hang of this podcast.

Do you think? Yeah. And I think we've just gone so highbrow now that we've had Sandu. Keep it up, Jessie. We need to keep it up. Yes, you know what Grandma used to say? What? If you bend down in the gutter, you pick up nothing.

Keep high. P have to keep high. Pishy. Jewish. Mother. By the way, if you've been enjoying the music on the show, it was created by my good friends Peter Duffy and Pete Fraser. Table Manners has been produced by the fabulous... Cup and Nozzle.