Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S11 Ep 7: Fearne Cotton

Episode Date: February 24, 2021

With over 40 million listens on her podcast, it felt only right to celebrate the wonder of Fearne Cotton as she starts a new series of Happy Place this week.A voice and personality we all know and love, Fearne talks about everything from her Happy Place Festival, being in the public eye and loving an early night to writing books, including her new Sunday Times Bestseller Speak Your Truth which is out now.We chat about homeschooling, Ombar chocolate, the Disney Club's amazing canteen lunches and growing up at the end of the Metropolitan line. Tuna pasta bakes and sandwich spread sandwiches are a memory of her mum's cooking and Fearne talks about turning 40, being a vegan, a drunken karaoke night with Greg James, her well loved chunky red lentil soup and meeting her husband Jesse. It was such a treat to speak to you Fearne, such a generous, kind and bloody prolific woman and congrats on a new series of Happy Place xxxx Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with my mum and we're about to have one of the leading podcasters on our podcast. Finally, it feels only right that we should have a chat with Fern Cotton, who obviously everyone knows about Happy Place. I mean, she's had, I think, over 35 million, I think she's probably on 40 million now, She's had, I think, over 35 million, I think she's probably on 40 million now, listens. And she's created this whole network of positive energy and just such generosity. And you may, obviously, everyone knows her as Fern Cotton, who was on our tellies. She's been the daytime host for Radio 1.

She's been on our screens for Top of the Pops, Children in Need. And now she's created this whole empire of generosity and happiness. And she has a new book out called Speak Your Truth, which is connecting with your inner truth and learning to find your voice. So yeah, I'm thrilled to be having Fern Cotton on. It's a shame she's not here in person, darling. I know. Because I'm upping my vegan game I've got some new recipes darling oh look at her she knows after three years of being really rude about vegan she now has to backtrack a little bit no I'm a born again veganer what did you have for dinner last night mum stir-fried vegetables darling with noodles and a bit of salmon I felt very good no judgment

so yeah we've got Fern Cotton coming on obviously we would have loved to have done this in person she knows what it's like I mean we can talk to her about how she's been keeping the podcast going through lockdown her podcast happy place darling I thought you were coming over today so I made this special root vegetable soup with all different root vegetables including beetroot and it's really lovely red colour and I thought you'd be having some soup with me today and a bit sad that you're not. I'm really sorry it's been a bit of a mental week for me and yeah it's a brilliant week darling. Well I don't know when this is coming out but we're recording this a couple of weeks before

it's coming out but I had a performance on graham norton which went really really well so well in fact i i think i'm going to rechart in the albums charts and maybe even chart with the song on its first week of release so only what you deserve my darling thanks mom no it's been it was brilliant wild oh here she is she looks very very glamorous. Oh, bless you. I've got quite big eye bags today, but I'm just... Haven't we all? There's nothing you can do about it. I can't see them.

Oh, Lenny, you're very sweet, but they're so there. Darling, do you have one of those lights that everyone has, the ring light? £20 on the internet. Oh, I'm getting one. This is what I need, darling. We need to get them. Oh, thank you Jessie Thank you darling

What a guy I know I think you're talking to Jessie Another Jessie She's just so lovely Say hi to Jessie Ware and her mum Hi how you doing Long time no see how are you I'm alright thanks love how are you

Yeah good lots of love to you all Lots of love bye Back in to do the homeschool bye Oh my god Lots of love to you all. Lots of love. Bye. Back in to do the homeschool. Bye. Looking for four people now. Oh, God. Oh, my God. How happy are you right now to be doing a podcast? Work.

I'm so happy. I'm so happy to not be in there. I hate it. I hate it. Oh, my God. Is it so hard? It is. It is.

It's not. I mean, our eldest, well, so one of them's at uni, and then Lola, who's 15, she's just doing her own thing. And then Rex is wild, wild. He's the eight year old. It's impossible. And then Honey, who's five, quite easy. So it's mainly Rex.

Yeah. And it's the weather as well that's hard. I mean, he's probably quite enjoying the snow. The weather. Yeah, he can't play out and play football and everything and rush around with this it's really hard but yeah I mean I feel like I've just about got away with not doing the homeschooling because my kids are nursery but yeah I mean it's it's exhausting it's impossible yeah it's unrealistic as well it's really unrealistic to be doing it and to be trying to

work and I'm a bit of a neat freak. So if everything's really chaotic in the house, I really freak out. So I'm trying to like keep everything looking nice, pointless, trying to guide them in life and actually work. And it's just, it's so unrealistic. It's bonkers. And then find time for yourself as well. So that's like.

That bit doesn't even happen. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to bed at like 7 30 these days I just get into bed straight after well I mean I don't I I just I put them to sleep and if I get into my pajamas I say mummy's going to sleep too then I kind of hope that they're going to go to sleep at a reasonable time and not piss about and I just get into bed and I just don't want to do anything I just want to sleep I don't know it's exhausting and I'm not even doing the homeschooling but Jessie your hours are virtually nursery hours

you get up early you have your dinner she has her dinner at five I love it hotpots four or five and then in bed by half seven I love it yeah great what a life I'm basically a three-year-old yeah I like no I like that I'm a I'm a sort of an early bird. I like the mornings. I hate staying up late. I always have. I really find it difficult. If someone wants to have dinner at like half eight, nine, I'm literally having a panic. I can't bear it.

Oh, me too. I won't digest that food. But do you think it's because it's that fear of the next day and what could entail, you don't know the uncertainty of whether you're going to have a bad night with the kids or you're going to, I don't know, is the idea of going to bed at 12 o'clock and then thinking I could be up in four or five hours it's just not worth it yeah horrendous like it's almost like the next day is instantly a write-off which is just the pits and I didn't used to feel like that

you know I've I've never been a massive fan of staying up late but if I did have a big night I wouldn't really care because it'd be like oh tomorrow I'll just sort of be a bit dozy or whatever but then when you've got kids in the mix it's hell on earth being hungover or like massively tired and having to deal with small people it's just yeah the worst can't bear it how um how has it been doing the podcast during lockdown for you? I don't know if you guys feel the same, but I really like it. I'm really missing sitting with people face to face. Like I would love nothing more than to be in your kitchen right now.

I would love to have like eye contact and be able to hug you. And like that for me is a big part of it. But actually, it's been easier to get guests because no one's doing anything so you know we've been able to get some amazing international guests that would never have had the time to come to the UK or to bother with coming on my podcast but it's so it's actually made it everyone's a bit more accessible which is really nice um and I like having a little look into like oh look at Alicia Keys house what. What curtains has she got? You know, having a good old nose on Zoom. So I like that element of it as well.

So yeah, it's not been too problematic in that way. I just miss seeing people face to face. I love chatting with, and I think you then get the vibe of that person, like who they are, what they're about, what mood they're in that day. There's sort of a disconnect on Zoom where you don't really get that.

So I'm missing that. So besides writing books, doing your podcast, presenting things, what else are you doing, Fern? What can you fit in? Well, I'm trying to keep children alive in the house and trying to teach them things, which is not working out at all, and trying to stay sane in the mix of that um we've also got some really nice new happy place projects that will be launching quite soon we are launching happy place books which i'm really really excited about so

we're going to be publishing other authors which is such a dream come true so we've got yeah we've got some really cool books coming out this year that have either been written or are in the stages of being written at the moment with some really interesting people and they're kind of books that are there to inspire and hopefully give good advice for everybody and it's been a real thrill to sort of work on that so that's launching which is ace and then series nine of happy place starts on the 22nd of february i think so we've got another i think 11 episodes so i'm in the middle of recording that still we've got some really really cool people on really like you know sort of people that i wouldn't have necessarily had on my hit list but

have turned out to be some of the best episodes ever so yeah I'm just trying to keep all the happy place stuff going we're still not sure what's going to happen with the festival it's very unlikely we'll get to do it in physical form so we'll probably do a digital festival again like we did last year when is it so usually when we do it in real life it's we have the London event in August and then we have the Manchester event in September so I reckon we'll probably try and do it mid-summer you know I think even if we're not in a horrendous lockdown in the summer people are going to be really feeling the repercussions of this last 12 months still and just people being flat you know unmotivated skin all of that and you know we just want to try and give people a little bit of something nice and hopeful really so that's that's all in the mix

so yeah I feel really lucky that that I've been you know well probably a bit too busy considering we've got the kids at home the whole time as well but I'm I feel lucky that I've got other things to be sort of thinking about but I do you know what what's something that really struck me in the book speak your truth is something that and it and it really resonated with me I think because of us wearing these different hats yeah and um and you talk about, you know, how do you describe me as a TV presenter who doesn't do the TV, radio host who do bits and bobs,

writer, yes, a bit of that. And I don't really want to fit into a neat box anymore. And I think that there's, you know, when my mum's saying, you know, what else are you up to, Fern, kind of with a wink? There's something, I don't know if you found this, from doing the podcast. I mean, you were doing plenty of other things,

whether it was Yoga Babies, which is one of my kids' books and um I I presume that it feels liberating and I'm putting words in your mouth but like limitless now I don't know there's something about the power of having you know you've created a community of people with happy plays and you talk about like speaking your truth and what is my truth and your truth changing and I just think that for me it really resonated about that idea of a woman who becomes a mother and and then working in the public eye and you somehow maybe think that there is a limit on that because people tell you that there is especially with kind of working in the public eye and then you've kind

of created this whole new world for yourself which is your truth and it keeps on going the fact that you've now got a publishing house it's just amazing it's so inspiring for him yeah I love it I feel very very lucky because I think you know the first I don't know maybe even 20 years of my career I think I you know I subconsciously felt quite disposable and then later down the line consciously felt very disposable because you are you know you can be replaced in an instant and the job will get done and I think that became really tiresome and also I just wasn't built for it you know there are people that have a really thick skin and that can go, oh, I don't care if I was taken off that job or if I wasn't hired, it will be fine. Whereas I don't, I'm really sensitive and I don't think that that's really conducive to me feeling great. So I think

I kind of started gravitating away from that world, maybe in my early th 30s and I'm turning 40 this year and I you know I kind of feel like I'm in a position in life where I'm more confident about who I am and what I like and what I want to do and that's just very organically and at times if I'm honest accidentally unfurled into this really nice new thing that I'm doing that is hard to name and is hard to kind of put your finger on and if you only watch I don't know traditional broadcasting tv or whatever you might like some people go what you do these days and then your ego goes oh ouch god I'm doing loads what are you on about and then you go wait a minute I'm just doing something really different and actually I'm really really happy like way happier doing what I'm doing today and it feels like I don't I I feel like there's a purpose to all of it I don't feel disposable and like I'm

just sort of turning up to work so if people aren't as aware of what I do today that is so much less relevant to what it used to be and now I just hope that people enjoy what I'm doing and get something from it and I do want to just keep building it and building it and it doesn't mean you know I don't have to be like in front of a camera the whole time I can be squirreling away at home working on something really beautiful and big like the books thing but I'm not having to be this person with the microphone with a nice dress on I can just be like you know chilling at home but really passionate about something I'm doing so it's it's just sort of moved with who I am as a person today I guess but how how old were you when you did your first telly gig uh 15 when I started on Disney

Club I know I was a tiny child. I mean, it's like mental. But you've got it in your background, haven't you? A bit of showbiz with Billy Cotton. Well, yeah, I mean, kind of and kind of not because I didn't know anything about him. So there's Bill Cotton and Billy Cotton. So Bill Cotton had a big famous TV show back in the 60s. Am I right? He was a band leader. A band leader, yeah. So he Cotton had a big famous TV show back in the 60s.

Am I right? He was a band leader. A band leader, yeah. So he was my granddad's cousin. So my dad's dad's cousin. And then his son, Billy Cotton, he, sorry, Bill Cotton, he was, you know, like a commissioner at the BBC for years. He commissioned like 40 Towers and all those shows. But this was my granddad's cousin's son I mean who knows their granddad's cousin's son I didn't I hadn't

I didn't know anything about them my dad sort of told me the kind of folklore of the family on that side but I you know there was there was sort of no connection there at all and um you know they were kind of just known people that my dad and granddad might talk about. I wasn't particularly close with my granddad anywhere. I'm very, very close with my dad, but not particularly close with my granddad. So yeah, there is that. It's weird that there is that sort of almost coincidence that there are sort of two cotton. It's a coincidence rather than a connection. Yeah, I mean, I grew up in a working class sort of suburban situation. My dad only retired recently as a sign writer.

My mum had about five jobs at any one time. And I just kind of loved going to a drama club outside of school, really. And that's how it all unfurled that I just went to audition for anything that was going and then somehow managed to worm my way onto this kid's tv show so it was all a real like it was it was a really amazing time you know at that age going from being just a regular school kid to all of a sudden I'm doing this job that is something I've dreamed of doing. And it was actually happening. And it was, you know, nothing exciting happened in Eastcote where I grew up. Like nothing.

You didn't even go into central London. Eastcote's kind of end of the metropolitan line. So you've got like Pinner, Rice Slip, Eastcote. Okay. It's that little zone. And, you know, you're in that sort of weird suburbia where you don't even really go into central London because there's no reason to. And it's expensive and you just wouldn't bother. But equally, you wouldn't go into the countryside.

So you were just sort of in suburbia. So it felt very exciting to then be going like into London to film and to interview pop stars. And, you know, it was a really exciting time. and you know it was a really exciting time what I want to know whether as a as a presenter did you have your own rider and as a 15 year old what did you demand that was on your rider not demand but what was like the most exciting thing that you could think of asking for oh my god I wouldn't have dared because I felt so out of place even being there like I just felt like a school kid who had got lucky and like what am I doing here so I wouldn't even if I had been like dying of thirst I don't think I would have even asked for a water I would just be like I'm fine I'm fine but at Disney Club they did have this little kind of green room in the studios we would film in and there was sort of five of us presenters and if you weren't on camera you would

sit with your chaperones in that we had these amazing chaperones jerry and sue who i'm still in touch with and we would sit with them in the green room and hang out and chat and there was always like huge multi bags of little mini bounties mars bars and all that sort of thing and i couldn't believe it like do we just we can just take them for free like we just get to eat them whenever so i got a little bit greedy with all that because I couldn't quite believe it was just all there for free so I could easily do like six mini chocolate bars in a little break or something because they were there and I was 15 and why am I not going to eat them because they're there and we had like amazing canteen lunches

that again I couldn't believe that we didn't have to pay for it it was just all part of this like you know dream that was that was sort of coming true at that point in my life it was bizarre but oh I would have never dared ask for anything but what okay so when you go when you went home and you're having your family dinner around the dinner table who was cooking it and what were you eating what was like your go-to dish that you wanted from your mum or dad yeah so I mean it's a funny one because we didn't eat that frequently together because my dad was always still working until pretty late mum mum was working at like at that point in my life she was delivering clothes for next she was also an orthodontist nurse and would clean our neighbor's houses so she was all over the shop as well so sometimes I'd like let myself in from school or come back

from work and no one was there or if my mum and my brother were there mum would cook us like a very bog standard post-school 90s dinner of like pizza and a jacket potato like very carb heavy or um she had one dish that I actually really really loved that is quite weird looking back and it was a pasta bake a tuna pasta bake with um or sometimes she would just do a tomato pasta bake so it's a point where I went vegetarian as a young kid so a pasta bake with So there was a point where I went vegetarian as a young kid. So a pasta bake with cheese. And it was always, what are the little bows called? Farfalle?

Yeah, Farfalle. The little bows with grated cheese and then crushed up crisps on top of it. How fabulous. And did you love it? I loved it. Are you kidding me? It was the dream dinner that was my that was the one meal I remember that she would actually make because a lot of it was like

pizza in oven fish fingers chips but when she made that I was like oh my god this is a winning night it was so good and how like how are your kids because um with eating do you eat together and do you I mean my kids are really fussy at the moment and they would prefer all the oven stuff and I'm kind of giving up on cooking food at the moment I can't be arsed with the the drama but how are your kids do they do they love your food are they are they vegetarian no I mean it's really it's tough with little ones isn't it like Jessie my god I feel exactly the same as you quite a lot with Honey specifically. She goes through real phases of being so fussy.

And you just think, why am I even bothering to try and do new stuff? Because it's just utterly pointless. So she's really fussy. Rex is a really good eater. He will eat most things. He loves a roast dinner um he loves trying new stuff he's obsessed with eggs he wants to eat a fried egg bagel every day that is his like favorite meal ever for he'll have it breakfast lunch or dinner um so he's really good yeah it's

a great choice he will he's quite adventurous and he likes to try new things and he's kind of and he's he's a massive bloke he's he's eight of, and he's a massive bloke. He's eight next week, but he's in size 10 to 11 clothing and his appetite is insane. I mean, he eats more than Jesse and I do in a day. So we're constantly cooking for him, constantly. But there are certain things that they will eat that we'll all eat.

So there's a couple of soups that I make that everybody will eat and it's like, okay, if I have a batch of that in the fridge or freezer, that's always going to, you know, work for someone. Which is it? What's in it? So the one that works for all of us is a carrot, sweet potato and red lentil soup. And it's like the easiest thing in the world to make.

It's got a bit of garlic and some leeks in as a base and then some stock and the veggies and the lentils. And I make it really thick so it's not a watery soup it's a real thick soup and they have to have like little soldiers of toast and they scoop it out they don't eat it with a spoon so it's mainly toast but they are but they do like that so that's like the one dish everybody in the house will eat but it and it's hard because also I've got you know the two older step kids my stepson's at uni but Lola's here quite a bit and the little kids don't like what she likes so you end up

cooking about six different meals at any one point it's like we feel like we're running a hotel at the moment do you cook meat even though you're vegetarian yeah well actually me and my husband at the moment have oh I feel like almost embarrassing it to you too, because you're like such amazing cooks and foodies. But we've gone vegan, which doesn't always go down well with everybody. But we're vegan at the moment. We've done about a year. I thought you were always vegan. No, I've been vegetarian since I was about, I don't know, 12.

And, but I ate, know everything else and then um about a year ago Jesse and I were like should we just try it and see how we go and he went from being a meat eater to vegan and Jesse is all or nothing he doesn't do anything by half so he was like yeah we're doing it and I thought it was going to be like a month and we're about a year and a half in now and we don't really think about it to be honest anymore it's just sort of become like quite easy so I don't know if it's forever but I'm really enjoying it at the moment and he's really enjoying it he's like getting a huge kick so what did you have for dinner last night last night we had a very quick, easy lentil stew. So it was lentils and some tomato, some passata and some garlic and some yellow peppers. I can't think what else was in it.

And some rice. And it was just like we do make quite a lot of quick things. Or like I'll cook for us when I'm cooking for the little ones. And then I'll leave that in a pot and then reheat it when they're asleep. And then we'll eat afterwards. And I'm really eking that one out because I know my kids are getting to the point now where I should be probably eating dinner with them. But I really like eating dinner with Jessie at night on our own. Just having a chat.

It's quite selfish, but I really like that time. I'm just mum. just having a chat. It's quite selfish, but I really like that time. I'm just, mum was actually really hoping that we would have been able to have you over because mum really wanted to flex her vegan,

her chef skills. She's, I mean. Yes, Lenny. We all, people that have listened to this podcast for a long time have known that my mum has had a rocky road with her veganism and her opinions on it. And she's now converted.

She's not vegan, but she's now decided to be less rude about it because she realises it's actually quite unpopular to be like that. And you've realised it's quite delicious, Mum Vegan. Darling, my goal is not to be popular, but to save the planet along with you and Sam. That's all I'm interested in, darling.

Also, I think you do have to really I mean you have to think about it but once you get into a mindset it's much easier that you don't always consider meat being the most important ingredient yeah my parents now do sort of they'll do a vegan day twice a week so they'll do like a vegan dinner or or they'll do a whole day vegan and they've really they've really got into it you know my dad's like a massive six foot two tall bloke who's done a lot of manual labor in his life but he's he's really getting into it so I think it's just about you know as I said I'm not I don't know if I'm doing this forever but at the moment I'm really enjoying it so So I'm sort of sticking with it.

But yeah, I know what you mean. I know what you mean, Lenny, because I think I might have felt a bit like that before. Like, what's the point of being vegan? Why would you bother going to those extremes? And I think an experiment for me has led to me quite enjoying it. Good. But you're a really good baker and you love baking.

I love baking. And actually, so my backing singer backing singer Sanab I need to get her on bake off she's absolutely amazing she brought in because I was like babe bring in a little cake for rehearsal come on yeah she brought in these vegan chocolate um cupcakes it was the I hate the word moist but they were the most moist thing I've ever tasted in my life and they were the most phenomenal thing they're absolutely glorious have you found a way to bake uh vegan yeah and actually it's so much easier than I thought it was going to be it's um it's really not a problem because the only thing you've got to worry about is your eggs because you want it you want your cakes to bind but there are quite

a few different ways so you can use flax that you can just soak in hot water. And that's really good for your gut. Yeah, it goes right through you, Lenny. So that's really good. And then you've also got chia seeds, which, again, you just soak and they go a bit gloopy. I mean, they look disgusting. And they look like frog spawn. They look like frog spawn, but they really help to bind your cakes.

Or, and I don't know how this works, but you can use a non-dairy milk and then put a little bit of apple cider vinegar in it. And you just leave that to sort of, it almost curdles for a bit, but you leave that for a bit and then you pop that into your dry mix. And it works. I don't know how. So I sort of switch between those three. And you do end up often with a more moist bake.

Yeah. Well, when we do our olive oil cakes, that's always really good. Olive oil. So good. Yeah, we make waffle, vegan waffles in the morning with olive oil in. And they're yummy and really bouncy and gorgeous. So, yeah, there are there are there are loads of ways you can do vegan baking. Now, that bit hasn't been a problem at all speaking okay jesse jesse wood your wonderful husband who brought you in a cup of tea just charming i've met him a couple of times he's always just warm lovely generous i want to know whether you had a memorable first date and if you ate at that first date? We definitely didn't eat. Do you remember what you ate? We definitely didn't eat.

I can tell you exactly about our first date because I'm smiling thinking about it. My husband is like the loveliest man ever. He's so amazing. For our first date, I was a bit nervous because this was a point in my late 20s where there was, for some reason, interest in who I was dating. And it was really horrible because everyone wants to know and whatever. And I didn't really understand why.

You were papped a lot. I remember you were always getting papped. It was like really intrusive. I don't anymore. No one gives a toss what I'm doing. It's fantastic. Like literally no one cares which is great but but yeah so I when I met him I was like how do I go on a date with him because I don't want someone to see me out with someone new and then it become this thing before we even know if it's a thing so he came to my house and this is

so my husband is now you know he'll talk talk about it publicly is has been sober now for eight years, which is amazing. But he wasn't when we met and he turned up to my house with a little plastic bag with a bottle of vodka in and we drank that and we did not eat a thing. I think I had probably a couple of cigarettes to just wash down the vodka and that was me done that was my meal that night do you drink now Fern I mean very infrequently I will have if like if you know not at the moment it's not going anywhere I never drink at home um but if I went to dinner even with Jesse he doesn't mind if I drink or not I would definitely have a little gin and tonic or a little cocktail maybe. But yeah, I do like the odd drink, but I'm such a lightweight now that if I have even one, I'm so drunk.

And honestly, I used to be the most amazing drinker. Like that night, for instance, Jesse and his plastic bag of vodka. I could have drank all night, like vodka, mix it with some red wine or whatever. I wouldn't even get drunk. I'd be absolutely fine. And then I'd probably go to work the next day having had two hours sleep, probably still a bit drunk and be fine. I mean, I can't even have one drink now without going, oh, my God, I'm really drunk.

And now subsequently, I'm really tired. I need to go to bed. It's pathetic. And the hangovers are so cruel as you get older they're awful I know I don't find that no mum's still going she's still flying that's like my mum my mum is fine the only time she's had a terrible hangover is at my 30th birthday 10 years ago now um where she was so hungover she didn't even move or get out of bed till I think it was like 5pm. We had to get her out of bed and say like, come on, you got to try and

drink some water. That was the only time she had a proper big hangover. What are you going to do for your 40th? Are you going to have a big party or are you still going to be in lockdown? I don't know. I mean, what do we think? It it's in September so I'd be hopeful that I could do something but I don't know even pre-pandemic I was sort of in two minds like is that just a bit excessive to have a massive party like should I do something that's a bit more impactful or poignant and I don't know do something that I don't know like go and plant 40 trees somewhere I don't know do something rather do. Do that.

You do lots of impactful, important stuff every day. I feel like if you just want to be raised up on a chair and showered in like, you know, adoration, I think you're allowed that for one night. I don't know. Maybe I'll have a party. Maybe I would take like my inner sanctum sort of friendship group away for a night.

I don't know. I'll definitely mark it in some kind of way. And I'm looking forward to my 40s. I feel really ready for it now. Like, bring it on. Fern, where is the first place that you're going to eat out when you get out of lockdown? Where will you go? God, that is the first place that you're going to eat out when you get out of lockdown? Where will you go?

God, that is a great question. Is there a local place that you love? We have got some nice local places. There's a couple of really good little vegan cafes, which you wouldn't necessarily go to dinner for, but you'd pop in for a nice lunch. So I've been really missing that. But I think really I'd like to go to someone's house for lunch

rather than a restaurant. I really miss, and I mean we're really big on we don't really do like the dinner party thing because I I want to go to bed early and if someone was still hanging around at midnight I'd be thinking I don't know how to get rid of them this is really awkward so I like a lunch where you know that by four or five they've tired of the situation you're over it, they're already thinking they're leaving to get home for their dinner.

So that's perfect for me. So we're big on Sunday lunch in our house and usually outside of the pandemic, we'll have any old Herbert over. Whoever's around, you are welcome. So my brother's always there, my parents, some friends, whoever's about, we love it. And we'll do all like lots of

little dishes that you can pick from or some like big plates of stuff or like a roast within a vegan option so I kind of think I would when this is over like to just do that really and have people here and just sit and chat and it be and have music playing I'm just missing that I I wanted to know I feel like um you're such a 90s kid and you're so nostalgic about the 90s. I need to know what your lunchbox was. Oh God, it was awful, my lunchbox. I used to complain about it all the time

because my mum would get that disgusting sandwich spread that had like teeny bits of supposed vegetable. Gherkins and things. Oh, it was horrible. And she would make a sandwich. I mean, she was like short on time. So it'd be like bread, sandwich spread in a penguin and a bag of skips, which I would eat.

But the sandwich, I literally would live off of skips and penguins because I wouldn't eat the sandwich because it was disgusting. I kept saying, please, can it not be that? And it would end up that the next day again and again and again um so I don't have fond memories of 90s Pat lunches to be honest on your Pat lunch box the picture I don't think I even had one I think it was just like putting a bag in my rucksack quite frankly I don't remember yeah I don't think it was in an actual lunch but maybe when I was teeny tiny. I think I had a roll and wrap one when I was at preschool, like tiny school. But then as a teenager, because I didn't have cooked dinners all through secondary school, I had a packed lunch because it was obviously cheaper to have a packed lunch.

And most of my girlfriends would have a packed lunch. But it was horrible. It was, yeah, the sandwich spread sandwich. And then we would just eat the crisps and the penguin or a club, which are quite good, actually, clubs, aren't they? And we would just buy a lot of stuff from the newsagent on the way to and from school, like the cheapest stuff. So 10p Space Raider crisps or So Delicious or 10p.

We had these little tomato ball crisps that were tempeh as well so we'd just buy a lot of really gross snacks and that would see us through until dinner time it's so funny how lunch boxes have changed now and what we put in our children's we are so annoying what's wrong with us we're like so virtuous kale patties and like what are we trying to do they just want skips and a penguin. Fem, we haven't asked you what your last supper would be. This is like what we need to ask you. This is really tricky.

And I've like even been talking, I've found the dessert bit really tricky because I've got such a sweet tooth. And I had to have. You can have a platter. Oh, maybe I have to. Because I had to have like a focus group with Jessie and Lola last night going, what is the best dessert? Like, I don't, I can't. There's too many. So let me start.

I'm starting with a really unsophisticated starter that's not even a starter. But if this isn't in my last meal, I don't know what to do. So my starter is peanut butter on toast. I like that. I like that. Is that all right? Jenna Coleman had boiled eggs and soldiers. Okay like that. I like that. Is that all right? I think that's great. Jenna Coleman had boiled eggs and soldiers.

Okay, that makes me feel better. Because I'm thinking again, oh my God, you two know everything there is to know about food. You're so passionate. You're amazing cooks. How can I come out with peanut butter on toast? No, it's about, no, it's nostalgia. Okay, I love it.

And why is that? Is it because you used to have it all the time or is it just something that you... I still do. I've grown to love peanut butter more. We never used to have it when we were younger. Oh, God. We always had it growing up

and it's always... If we don't have any kind of nut butter, because we'll have all different types of nut butters, hazelnut, almond, whatever. We all love it. Cashew butter. The kids love it. We love it.

If we run out, it's like desperate time so jesse bought this massive like big white tub like this big of um almond butter it's almonds and coconut i think oh my god it is so dreamy is it pippin nut pippin nut oh the best love them best and i'm talking like a very like the nostalgic bit is probably comes from my nan my lovely late nan sylvia who would have delicious thickly sliced bread like super super thick with really salty butter and then we'd put either jam or peanut butter on so like it's got to be a real thick slab of bread um but the nut butter is the bit that i just i have to eat it every day i love the

stuff then so main course i'm gonna go with a really decent vegan burger in a normal bap not a brioche bap just a normal bap and it's got a beyond meat patty because they are so good. Have you tried them? I haven't tried one, but can you get them in like supermarkets or not? Yeah, yeah. You can get, I think you can get them anywhere. We get it on Ocado. Yeah.

Oh, they're so good. Beyond meat. Oh, really? Okay. So, so good. I mean, I haven't eaten a proper beef burger since I was about 10, so I'm not exactly sure of like how realistic they are

but to me they are pretty meaty and I would have it with a little bit of salad and some Dijon mustard some vegan mayo and some ketchup probably that's it perfect chips oh sweet potato fries all day long oh do you like those I love yeah Mary Berry and Angela Hartnett on that Best Home Cook said no you just can't have fries like with sweet potatoes because she says they don't get crispy enough they don't we had them last night

I made them for me, Jessie and my step daughter and I just literally sliced them relatively thinly and then cooked them roasted them with oil and salt. And they are a little bit floppy, but they're so sweet and so juicy. So they're one of my absolute faves.

So we had those last night. So yeah, they're on the plate too. And I think that's pretty much the perfect main course for me. And then pudding, come on. Well, she's having 18 desserts. Are you the sort of person that would skip your main meal and have the dessert? No, I'm not. My mum is.

My mum will often come over and I'll have made a soup or a stew or something and say, right, do you want a bowl of this soup and some toast or a bit of the stew? No, no. Have you got any biscuits? Or she'll say, oh, I've just had a donut. Like she would happily replace lunch with a cake or a donut. Whereas I do need the savoury and then a little bit of sweet at the end. I love lunch.

That's my mother-in-law. She'd have a cake every day. Yeah, that's my mum. But did she teach you how to bake? No, God, no. Not at all. I mean, my mum will bake the odd cake now. She actually made quite a nice banana loaf at the weekend but no she wasn't a big baker I think I just sort of

started I mean I I have I used to have a really complicated relationship with food you know I had all sorts of problems in my 20s and eating disorders and all sorts of stuff going on so baking for me became a hobby where I was sort of learning to really face a fear that I had, I guess. And then in turn, that kind of moved over to cooking and I'm quite extreme, I guess, in many ways in life. So then I had to really make friends with everything that I was a bit worried about

and became, well, baking obsessed primarily, but sort of then obsessed with cooking and wanting to do it all the time. And it was a huge part of me, you know, really getting back on track with my health and my relationship with food. So I kind of just looked in a lot of books, really, like it was all just looking at books. And I mean, I've got millions of cookbooks because I became so obsessional about it in my late 20s and early 30s I just wanted to try everything and learn to cook everything and try you know new things I hadn't tried before so it was all sort of self-taught really oh come on we still haven't done the pudding though we will do pudding so

pudding what we landed on last night was a really decent chocolate mousse it was always going to be chocolate based like we had a bit of a debate like me and my stepdaughter i said to her would should i just say straight up chocolate cake and and i said or i do love a chocolate fudge cake and she was like do not mess with the chocolate cake don't start adding fudge in. That's complicated. So then we moved on to talking about other chocolate puddings. And I think we all felt quite happy that a chocolate mousse is the best pudding ever. But are you going to use egg whites in yours? I mean, I would if I was baking it for people, cooking it for people coming over. But you can use that stuff.

And I've done this a few times. Is it called aquafaba? Yeah, aquafaba. Is it like chickpea water yeah chickpea water and you can whisk it like egg whites it's really effective and it's really delicious so I would probably use that and just some really decent dark chocolate or you could use um there's a lot of good vegan chocolates like ombar they're really really good actually they're delicious I love ombar so I would use that and a bit of chickpea water

great delicious creamy no one's done a chocolate mousse i don't think before no maybe they have but i what no it's really funny but i love my mum's chocolate mousse i i remember that used to be like a sunday lunch afters and it would be like really fancy and it felt well it's not i mean it's not the most fancy but just it satisfies i love it it's luxurious it's really luxurious and i will point out i will add a disclaimer i'm not having any fruit or berries with this chocolate mousse i hate raspberries when they're like you know if you have to go to a fancy dinner like you've been to an award thing or whatever and it's usually always a chocolate mousse and they put raspberries and berries on it. I don't want that on my chocolate mousse.

I just want chocolate mousse. I don't want fruit on it. Simple. No nonsense. Simple. So, okay, you're only going for the chocolate mousse. We're not doing a platter. No, I think all three of us felt quite confident that chocolate mousse would be sufficient.

I love that Lola, like, said no to the chocolate fudge. I actually think, I have very fond memories of the Pizza Express chocolate fudge cake. I very much like that, Lola. And I feel like maybe you need to give that a whirl. Yum to that cake. I remember that cake. Yum to that cake. Yeah, no, maybe I just need to make a really good one

and see if she's up for that. But she just said, no, don't start adding things to chocolate. It's too confusing. Vegan ice cream's good though. Jude's vegan ice cream is brilliant. We have so much vegan ice cream in our house at any's vegan ice cream is brilliant we have so much vegan ice cream in our house at any one point the kids love it my son isn't great with dairy so we

give him a lot of vegan ice cream and yeah there are some amazing vegan we've got a really good new mint choc chip one that i'm gonna have in a bit oh that sounds good hold on the fucking door's gone and nobody's answering at once jessica one sec mum mum ask Fern about table manners do you have good table manners Fern uh you know what Lenny yes and no if I were to have dinner with you I would have impeccable table manners because I am all about big conversations so I would be completely engaged in what everyone was saying at the dinner table I would be you know eating nicely and not rushing and enjoying the whole process but often at home I probably don't and that is due to being time poor I think I mean it's a rubbish excuse but say I've put the kids to bed and especially at the moment because they're

not at school in the day if I'm then stressing about I've got to record a podcast episode the next day and there's still some notes I haven't made etc I will often be looking on my phone and eating at the same time which is not okay no Jessie it's not okay I do that too I know my daughter started saying put your phone away mummy and I'm like oh god that's so bad it's hard isn't it because I'm often thinking I have to turn my phone off at nine otherwise I'm going to get insomnia so when I'm eating I'm like I just do the last few little emails look at what my manager sent me for the next day quickly check this do a little bit of research here that's not cool and I should be just going oh what a lovely meal I'm very grateful so it's not great but if as I said

if I was at dinner with you my phone would be be in my bag. I wouldn't even check it. I'm engaged. I'm chatting. I'm loving the food. I'm loving chatting to whoever I'm with. Good table manners out in a restaurant, bad at home. What's your worst table manner in someone else? Looking at phones.

I think it's so rude. If you're at dinner with someone and you're chatting and then they're looking at their phone, it drives me mad. I couldn't bear that. Do you think it's a generational thing that people check their phones for information? Like people say, did you watch that thing the other night? And you can't remember the name of the actor and so people just check their phones because it's so accessible.

Yeah, I think it is just a bit of a bad habit, isn't it? Yeah. And it just makes me think, are you bored? Are you bored of what I'm saying? Do you want to be here? I find it really odd it's strange I mean it doesn't happen that often because I hang out with people that really just want to sit and chat but you do get it every now and again you think wait a minute but I don't know apart from that I'm not too bothered I'm not a massive fan of when people you know I remember a kid at school doing this putting a mouthful of food in it and then having to wash it down

with drink straight away. And then they chew again after. Yeah, but your aunt told you that she, Auntie Liz says that you shouldn't do that. She told Alex off. Oh, really? You shouldn't eat and drink, like, wash it down. You should, like, finish your mouthful and then drink.

I think I find that one a bit peculiar, but, you know, whatever floats your boat, but that's a weird one. What's your karaoke song, Fern Cotton? She lives with a rock and roller, darling. She's a rock chick. Are you going to do Rolling Stones? No way.

Absolutely not. I am not good at karaoke. I've done it a handful of times. I was once sent a recording from Greg James. He's really good at karaoke, by the way. You probably already know that. Well, he's a high achiever, isn't he? He's a high achiever. He's super annoying. He's good at everything. And we were out on a Radio 1, I don't know, we were bowling or something.

And I was really pissed. And I had had a few cocktails and i was really like slightly out of control and i went for i mean no one ever goes for this i went for adele rolling in the deep that's time he does that that's a drunk person i'm not saying i can't sing i i went for adele, Rolling in the Deep, and I was screaming it. I did a screamo version. And in my head, I kind of at the time thought, I think I got away with that. And then the next day, Greg sent me the video and I was mortified. Mortified. It was horrendous.

And hopefully we'll never see the light of day. But now I've said that. I feel like Greg James needs to give it to us. I really hope he does. It was a long enough time ago that it will be on another phone that doesn't exist anymore, I'm hoping. Fern, how many times have you seen the Rolling Stones? I mean, I'm very lucky a lot of times. I don't know.

I mean, the amazing thing is, and I'm so gutted, you know, for any live musician right now not being able to play because you know we all love going and seeing live bands but before all this that was one of the most exciting things was like Jessie and I got to go on a bit of the tour in um California one year when Rex was a baby and that was amazing and then we did a couple in Rio and Paris and you know that's such an amazing experience to have had and I literally count my lucky stars each gig is amazing there's never a bad Rolling Stone show so yeah I've been very lucky

that I've been to quite a few and Rex has been a couple of times but Honey hasn't and I'm so hoping that when all this is over they'll start up again and do another tour because I really want her to see them play live it'll never stop do you i hope not i really 80 year olds all performing brilliant isn't it brilliant it's brilliant um fern thank you so much for being on table manners

it's long overdue and just best of luck with everything you know speak your truth is out now um happy places coming back. So Happy Place, when this comes out, will have just started for season nine. Yeah. Wow. And just going from strength to strength. I'm so inspired by you.

And thanks so much for chatting to us. Thank you for having me on. I'm such a fan of you. Well, I'm a fan of you musically, Jessie, as you know. I always have been. But I'm such a fan of your podcast. And I love it. So thank you for having me on well it's an absolute pleasure

now Fern just so we know how many listens are we up to on old Happy Place now how many millions come on 40

come on that's amazing yeah we just hit it the other day I was so chuffed about that so I mean we've been doing it a long time now so we've had the time

to build it up but yeah it's good well we can't wait to hear and thank you so much now go back to homeschooling oh no you know what I've got to do a couple of talks now

but I'm good I'm in the work zone today so I'm all good but thank you so much and I'm so happy to hear your lovely news and lots of love to you all. Fern Cotton.

Lovely. Just love her. She's so brilliant. She's absolutely gorgeous. Can't believe she's nearly 40, darling. She looks so beautiful. I'm getting one of those lamps today. Well, Fern Cotton, that was a pleasure to chat to you.

Fern Cotton, Speak Your Truth is out now. It's a really lovely book and it's already been a bestseller, a Sunday Times bestseller. And then, yeah, go and listen to the new series of Happy Place, which has started this week. So we asked the Table Manners community of instagram to uh ask us a question and therefore we are going to offer you a q a is this what we're doing yes darling if food is the language of love what three courses would you make for boris that's from mr jazz rocket don't think i'd be cooking for bor then. He wouldn't get one meal, one course.

Did you convince Regé-Jean Page to come on the podcast? Are you asking this one, Mum, or is this actually a question? Someone's asking. Alice Carr, number one. Alice Carr, okay. Did you, darling? I did flex my table manners muscles. And what did he say? And I, of course, dropped that in and he kind of said yes.

He said yes! You've not even mentioned that! Such a performance on Graham Norton, if we can get him on. But I've got to have him in the flesh. Yeah, and that's what I think he'd probably be scared about. Okay, Not Emma Stone, sorry, says, have you had much Irish food? And if so, what is your favourite Irish dish?

I don't actually know that many Irish dishes, but I just remember potato cakes. Soda bread, cabbage with bacon. Oh, soda bread. There's this amazing Guinness soda bread that my friend made me and it looks quite straightforward. I've just bought some black treacle to make soda bread.

Oh, nice. Yeah, I thought I'd make some this week. Oh, mum, I forgot to tell you. What? When I was in my dance rehearsals for my performance that we haven't talked about yet of course no should we remind them again that I was on Graham Norton and it went down really well and anyway I did I did dance I went to a dance studio and it was really fun I felt like I was in fame guess who was like smoking on a cigarette outside looking very sexy

Ali Ash and I did not have my hair and makeup done at that point. So I looked like a bit of a sea witch. Did you keep your head down and pretended you didn't know him? No, I did the hello thing and he was very nice. I don't know if he actually knew who I was, but I was like, Ali Ash! He is very handsome in real life.

Is he? Sexy. Oh, wow. So thank you so much for listening. Thank you to Fern Cotton. Thank you for your questions. We didn't get through all of them

but we will lots of love take care everybody and save some of that soup for me okay darling bye Table Manners is produced by Alice Williams.