Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - S16 Ep 37: Jonathan Van Ness

Episode Date: June 26, 2024

We’ve made it to our series finale, and we’re going out with a bang! Joining us is the utterly fabulous Jonathan Van Ness. Jonathan was everything we could have wished for, and more. We heard all about growing up in Illinois, the meals their parents cooked them, meeting their lovely English husband, their JVN Hair empire, their love of Whitney Houston, the dramas of growing their pumpkins, the beautiful friendship they have with Taylor Swift, visiting the White House and the revelation that their last supper would include a ‘big gulp’ size Martini! We couldn’t have asked for a better end to the series, thank you to everyone who has joined us throughout, we’ll be back after a summer break, sun kissed and ready for more fun and fabulous guests! The full range of Jonathan’s hair care range, JVN Hair, is available to buy online and in store now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Tape Manners, I'm Jessie Ware and we have some news, we have big news. Lenny has become a grandmother again. Number four. Number four, how does it feel Len? It feels okay, I feel blessed, abundant. He's gorgeous. He is really gorgeous. He just doesn't look very squashed.

I don't know how she managed that. Because he didn't look kind of swollen. Anyway, he's gorgeous. And you get to meet him very soon. I'm going next week to meet him. And your brother's there at the moment helping with sleep. Yes. And I get to see him in about a month.

I can't wait. So congrats, Han. Not that you'll be listening to this because you've got far more important things to do, but maybe we will be in her ears to keep her awake in the night feeds. Who knows? Maybe she'll present the new series of Is It Normal? Maybe she'll start listening to our podcast, darling.

Maybe she will. Anyway, this is the last of the series that has gone on forever. We've been going since October I think so we thought we'd go out with a bang a big bang a big fabulous bang and we have Jonathan Van Ness coming on did you have you watched Queer Eye Mum? No. So when Anthony came on you didn't know who he was but you just thought he was cute yeah well Jonathan is also cute and has the most luscious hair I've ever seen in my life. Jonathan is a TV host, a comedian, a children's book writer, a podcast host, a gymnast, an entrepreneur in hair. I mean, has like a hairstylist. I mean, they do many a thing.

Jonathan has also been very open about being a survivor of sexual abuse a recovering drug addict they're happily married they bring their husband today I think and best friends Nicola Coughlin and Jonathan I remember in lockdown doing many a dance routine um to spotlight my song is Jonathan from America yes I think from like Illinois maybe okay But anyway we've got lots to talk about I want to hear about their garden, the snails, the biggest pumpkin I think I've ever seen in my life and what are you cooking? I'm doing something I tried out the other day it's called Scandi salmon so it's basically salmon you bake vegetables yeah which includes radishes I've never roasted a radish.

So it's got roast fat radishes. It's got onion, beetroot and potato, very thinly sliced. You bake that and then lay your salmon on top. And then you serve it with pea shoots, horseradish and creme fraiche. Dill? I've done a salad. There's dill on it. Of course. And capers.

And I've done a salad. There's dill on it. Of course. And capers. And I've done a salad. And then I've made individual summer puddings, which are very fiddly. But you know, I don't really like cooking. No. But I like making these. Why? For some reason, I don't know. Because you have to put it all together with the bread inside and then you put all the fruits in.

Is it like making a sandwich in a cup? No, it's just nice doing it. and it turned out so well last time let's hope it turns out well this time whose recipe is it mine you've made it up summer pudding is bread and fruits you used to make summer pudding every summer yeah but I used to make a big one yeah and I think this is better so if you make a big one it all falls apart I think this is better. So if you make a big one, it all falls apart. This way, you have your own little individual and it's lovely. And what do you serve it with? Cream?

Cream. Lots of cream. Jonathan Van Ness finishing Table Manners Series 16. I can't wait. Oh, about that, we will be coming back. We thought that Second Helpings went down so well that we're going to do a few more of them, so you're welcome. Yeah. And then we will be coming back we thought that second helpings went down so well that we're going to do a few more of them so you're welcome yeah and then we will be back in the school in

the new school year new term jonathan van ness coming up on table manners Well, as expected, Jonathan Van Ness has come in with an absolute bang. Told me about how my hair has been too bleached, but very kindly put, may I add. Not too bleached for the health, just for your desired end colour. I don't even know what my desired end colour was.

It was black. Go back to black. Oh, shush, mum. As Amy Winehouse would say. All right. We're talking about Taylor Swift already. Your nails, each nail... Represents a new song.

Represents a different favorite song? It's just I was trying to give you a little era. I was trying to give you eras. You gave eras. I did, I gave eras. Have you seen her before, John? Not in concert. Not in concert.

Only in life. You've met her? Yeah. What's she like? So sweet. Loves cats. Super kind. Okay. Nice texter. You've met her? Yeah. What's she like? So sweet. Loves cats. Super kind. Nice texter. Like, texts you back.

Would you say you are part of the squad? I don't know how you get bestowed this title, but I will say this. If I, like, text Taylor, she will, like, text me back, which is cool. That's fucking cool. Yeah. Love her. She's, like, really good, and we both love cats. Mum, Taylor has, I don't know, is Meredith still around?

Yeah, I think so. Oh my God. This is Prince. Does Prince like to be held and kissed on the nose? Well. I don't want to kiss your face. I'm obsessed with you. Don't leave.

He'll be back, don't worry. Also, Jonathan Jonathan what pronouns would you like today all of them any of them what are you feeling like one today more than the other

no here's why I feel about pronouns I feel like I want to remove myself I'm kind of like Taylor with like that whole like I want to remove myself

from this narrative okay I feel like that about the binary okay so just any is fine okay it's like my subtle protest

okay because I might make mistakes no you can't you can't make mistakes you literally can't make a mistake with me. You can do anything with me. I mean, you can in life, but not with me.

So, yeah, mum, Taylor Swift has a cat called Meredith after Meredith Grey. Of course. Obviously. Grey's Anatomy is one of the best programs on TV. Sorry, I didn't know you knew that trivia. Shonda Rhimes, darling. Oh, Shonda Rhimes.

Well, that segues nicely into, how's Nicola? Oh my God, she's so, I think we're going to go together. Oh, mum, you're a bad luck. Mum is obsessed with Bridgerton. Are you caught up on season three? I am. I finished it. Yes, it was hot.

I went to the premiere of the second season. My husband, I was watching it on my laptop. My husband moves over and is like, what's going on? No, I was watching it on my laptop, my husband moves over and is like, what's going on? No, I'm fearful that I'm like Nicola Coughlin sexual

like a little bit by now. Like the look on her face when like Luke was like about to like, like go full in and that. And when she was like, I was like, like yes,

like straight love. Wow, we went straight into it And we haven't even talked about What we eat Do we want to drink? Would you like anything to drink? I have Just water

I have to do hair after this So you don't want wine? I can't drink and then do hair Okay I'll fuck it up Whose hair are you doing? I don't know This like nice person named Irene

And I'm gonna put like Some waves in her hair So I don't wanna like burn her Maybe that If you're feeling a bit wavy, it'll be all right. No? Yeah, well, if you guys are going to have a glass of wine,

I'll have a glass. No, you don't have to. No, I love that. I felt like that was very peer pressure. No, let's do it. I mean, I love alcohol. Just because like the President of GVN here, it's like right there.

So I was just trying to be responsible. I haven't drunk for two days. Well done, mum. Yeah. Let's celebrate with a bottle. I'm always like, no, I'm always so impressed with myself. I'm like, wow, like two days. Two days is...

I'm like so anti-inflamed. I feel almost abstinent. Oh my God. No, Mum, actually... To be honest. Shout out to somebody that has sent us some non-alcoholic wine.

That looks beautiful. It looks very beautiful. It's called Wednesday's the Main. I don't know if it's any good. We could taste test it here. Where is it? Did you put some in the fridge? It's in the fridge,

but it may be too... It won't be cold enough. It looks very good. Yeah, let's have the good stuff. Not that that's not good. No, what? Let's in the fridge but it won't be cold enough It looks very good Yeah let's have the good stuff Not that that's not good No what let's have the real shit Yeah let's go for the cold Okay let's have the real shit

Yeah John White red No I was just trying to be like responsible for three seconds It's over now Don't be responsible Yeah rosé Rosé Yeah that sounds nice

Are you having a nice time? Yes I've never had more fun This is the I can't get over it. Can we go through your discography? Like that sounds... Do you want to do... Oh, I can start doing that in mine.

You're right, you're right, you're right. I'll call my turn. I mean, no, I feel like one must acknowledge the elephant in the room of the most beautiful rendition of Spotlight during lockdown. In your kitchen. I remember.

Your hair. I mean... You were armographying everything. I appreciated it. You know... I felt very special. spotlight during lockdown in your kitchen i remember your hair was i mean you were armography and everything i appreciated it you know i felt very special the way that you speak to our community is so beautiful and it's so like in your bones like thank you no you're just like you gotta go i mean they're just when you make music my gay body goes alight and it does like i feel like i can control like my middle toe to your music like i am just like so articulate in my body and i can also say earmuffs for mom the best sex i've ever had in my life like consistently is to your music like when people are like what's your fuck albums i was like anything oh my jesse where anything it's

just like jesse don't look shot darling that's what you know that that's like it literally makes me like it makes me like it's like I want a bottom but I want to be in control you know what I mean I'm like here let me do it like that's what your music drink like yes you know which should also make me say thank you none. Because none of us, none of this would have happened without your majesty. Your fucking majesty. Absolutely. And also, let's change the subject one more time.

Yeah. The face frame on your haircut is so perfect and so fucking cute. No, look at you and your red lip. Get out of my fucking face. She has a red lip every day. It's so timeless and so gorgeous. It's so Taylor and so gorgeous so taylor so taylor so you i listened to you on um diary of the ceo and your mom sounds amazing like the cutest she's

cute and very much believes in therapy yeah and you said you were in therapy from like five years old and she just sounds she sounds wonderful but your your stepfather sounded wonderful yeah like it sounds like you were from a very loving family. And what were you eating around the dinner table when you were younger? Um, where were you born? I was born in a little town on the Mississippi river called Quincy, Illinois. And well, what, like, what was like my favorite? Okay. Not to be picky, but I feel like my mom and stepdad just like made dinner that I thought was gross on purpose. Like they like really loved like a chicken divan, which like. What's a chicken divan?

It's so fucking nasty, you guys. It's chicken breast covered in like cream of mushroom soup. Oh yeah. With all of this like, um, like broccoli in it. And then it's covered in like cheese and Funyuns. What's Funyuns? In the oven. What crisps?

Yeah, like those fried onions. That sounds great, babe. It's not. It sounds great, but it's the the cream of it's not. At least for me. Was it like chicken tonight? I feel like chicken tonight. Yeah like this like very wet ass chicken casserole. With funyuns on the top but it was no funyun. It was like trying to rescue the funyuns were like trying to like rescue something that was already broken. I feel like you know what I mean it was like it was too little too late. So why did they repeat it? Did they like it? Because like my brother loved that.

And then like, and then they also loved like pork tenderloin, which, oh, actually, you know what my favorite thing with my mom was now that I think about it? Yeah. That bitch makes the most gorgeous twice baked potato you have ever. Twice baked potato? Yes. Do you guys know about both in England? No. We know about thrice here.

Oh, have you ever heard of thrice? No, that's chips, darling. That's chips though. Oh. But no, tell me about twice baked potato. So, it starts as a jack potato, as you all call it. And then you scoop out the inside and you put it in a bowl with, like, sour cream and, like, cheese. Oh, I've done that for barbecue.

And then you put it back into, yeah. So you guys would call that, like, a loaded potato? I don't know. Yeah, loaded. You love them when I make them. Yeah, I love them. But you like take the mixture and you like make it in the bowl and then you put it back

in the potato and then you bake it again. Do you put chives in or onions? Yes, you can top it. I like a chive. A little green onion gorgeousness.

Yeah. That sounds delicious. So good. Twice baked potato. So did your family, were your families, were they big kind of hosters

would you be having those twice cooked potatoes at a family event yes or was it would it be more like on a regular Wednesday my mom's a really cute entertainer

she would like to have the family over but I feel bad for talking shit about her dinner let me just say this again but you should keep all that but my mom's breakfast I think is really

where she shines okay tell me she's like this really gorgeous coffee cake she has these really good egg casseroles oh egg me. She's like this really gorgeous coffee cake. She has these really good egg casseroles. Oh, egg casseroles. Yeah, like really.

She does like kind of like a sausage and like pepper one that's like a little spicier. And then she does one that's more like for people who don't like spice. It's more just like egg and cheddar and like vegetables. Yum. Like her breakfast is really super strong. Are these celebration breakfasts? Yeah, they'll be like our Christmas breakfast. Not just like all the time. But my mom would make me a coffee cake like for special

because I'd be like, mom, that coffee cake is everything. What's the topping on the coffee cake? It's like a yellow cake with like cinnamon, sugar, like oat chunks like all throughout it. So like some of them kind of sink. Yes, oats of course. Yes, that's exactly right.

I like how you think. It's how I think too. But yeah, so she's really good at breakfast. And her dinners are good too. I feel bad. I just like hate pork tenderloin and chicken divan. And they like really made us eat that a lot. Who cooks at home for you? Is it your husband or you?

My husband. Is he a good cook? Yeah. Yeah. And, but also like, I am a good cook. I just love like too busy, like working. Are you going to Glastonbury? When is Glastonbury? I don't feel like doing it with farewell in Glastonbury? When is Glastonbury?

I don't feel like doing a farewell in Glastonbury. Why? Because it'd be too much fun? Or is it just like such a big crowd? It's a lot of people. Mark said this.

It is the best. Yes. Is Mark your husband? And is Mark English? Mm-hmm. He's from Essex. How did you two meet?

He slipped into my DMs and it worked out yeah really well when he I always like to joke and say like he was like

he was like oh my god I want to see your dick but really he said who made that jumper and who did make that jumper I don't even remember

but then I was like he's so hot but do you live in England or in the States no we live in Texas why Texas because we went there for work and then we just stayed where? No, we live in Texas. Why Texas? Because we went there for work

and then we just stayed. Whereabouts in Texas? We're in Austin. It's so great. It's supposed to be gorgeous. It's fantastic. I thought you said great. I was like, it's like so sunny there. I love it there. Do you think you'll have children? You guys, I'm breaking the news here first. I always said no

and I was like, I never want kids. Then, well, okay okay so then we were at Bergdorf Goodman in New York on Father's Day just like a week ago right yeah and our friend was joking about how she wanted to get so thin that she could uh wear children's clothes because like designer children's clothes are so much cheaper than adult clothes so she was like she was like if I like if I got thin enough like do you think and I was like stop body shaving she's like it's not about that they're just cheaper maybe I could like buy two and like, if I like, if I got thin enough, like, do you think, and I was like, stop body shaving. She's like, it's not about that. They're just cheaper.

Maybe I could like buy two and like sew it into one for the price of like a half of one still. Like, so then as she was saying that about children's clothes, I like looked into the children's clothes department. I was like, do I want a baby? And then, but then we'd had like, I'd had like two Bloody Marys at brunch, right? Yeah.

So I couldn't tell if it was like midday blackout or if it was like that I really wanted to be a parent. And so Mark was like, if you wake up tomorrow, like talking about a baby, then like maybe we'll talk about it. And by the end of the day, I'd already named the baby Aubrey. And I'd already gotten to a fight with my sister-in-law who was in town randomly in New York,

like Mark's sister. And she was like shitting on my baby names and I was like oh and then it was really bad because she was like what do you think about Scarlett and I was like you know never that's like the Scarlett letter like slosh and then she's like well my daughter's middle name is Scarlett and I was like I love that name it's really classic it's really gorgeous like hopefully you know that I was just like fucking kidding because I never would say that about the name Scarlett I love it uh but then I was like Aubrey like is our baby Aubrey? Aubrey.

No, just like Aubrey. Like, how cute. Like, Aubrey. Yeah, no, it is lovely. I like Audrey as well for a girl. Yeah, Audrey we love. But I was thinking,

Aubrey? Aubrey's your kid. Yeah, she's Aubrey. She's like our baby. Is it a girl or a boy? Yeah, girl. She's gonna be a girl. Oh, Aubrey, a girl.

That's quite good. I thought it was a boy's name. That's Sydney. Non-binary. I don't care about it. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, is there a plan in place? No.

Mark was like, it takes years. And I was like, it doesn't have to take that long. Like, maybe it won't take us that long. No, not in the States. You need to surrogate. Yeah, I was like, adopt a baby. Are you going to adopt one? I think I want to adopt.

Okay. Yeah. I can't... I want to adopt. You're not into surrogate? No, I love surrogates. I mean, that's great. I just like... I want to adopt. You're not into surrogates. I know I love surrogates. I mean, that's great. I just like...

I feel like there's so many babies. And especially like not to be like, you know, downer, but especially like after Roe v. Wade, there's like... After what? Roe v. Wade. Oh, Roe v. Wade. Oh, God. There's like all these kids who like are going to need like...

Oh, is Texas one of the states where... Oh, yeah. Does it make you not want to live there? Yes. But Austin is incredibly liberal, right? Or not? You know, it does. Like I've been in Austin since 2021 or no, 2020, 2020.

And it, it really does feel different. In these like, you know, these last four years, like the climate feels worse. And it feels like, especially know, these last four years, like, the climate feels worse. And it feels like, especially, like, in our state legislator, they have, like, weaponized the government so much against queer people that it's, like, even when the laws don't pass, like, they're just, like, they were trying to, like, target, like, uh, like, all gay bars is, like, put all gay bars is, like, the same as, like, a full nude strip club. So, like, you know, like, like trying to target like all drag brunches and they were trying to just like,

it just makes you feel like more unwelcome and like just kind of constantly like looking over your shoulder, you know? Does it feel more liberal in England? I think that... London. London for sure. Yeah.

But I think that like, unfortunately, no matter where you are, it's like if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time as a queer person, like that like unfortunately no matter where you are it's like if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time as a queer person like it doesn't really matter where you are you know

like lots of bad things can still happen but London is by and large like cuter but also a lot of stuff goes down here I mean a lot of stuff goes down in New York

against I mean just anywhere homophobia and transphobia is like a formidable foe what was it like growing up as a queer person I mean I think that like I wouldn't change anything because I think everything what we go through, it like makes us who we are. And so I'm grateful for what I went through.

But it was rough. I mean, I was like very flamboyant. And, you know, to this day, if I hear the word fag, I like will turn. I'm like. Who says things like that? People just driving by you in the street or like. No, it's fine. Actually, I recently, this is bad, but I'll talk here.

It'll look kind of funny. So I started playing Fortnite, like the game Fortnite. And there's this thing on Fortnite where if you are playing like group, trio, or like party, parties for people, if you don't turn off autofill, it will just like randomly put people in your party. So I used to do that. And so like random people would like get in my party and all these people just like say faggot

all the time on Fortnite. And like, they just- Was it like a diss? Yeah. Just like faggot this, faggot like, ah, faggot, just like all these faggots. And so then after playing for a few months, like I found myself like,

I'd be like, oh, faggot. Then I'd be like, wait. But then I was like, wait, this is subversive. I was like'd be like, oh, faggot. Then I'd be like, wait. I was like, but then I was like, wait, this is subversive. I was like, I like reowning faggot, honey.

So the next thing I knew I was like, faggot this, faggot that. And then I was like, wait, you need to stop saying that all the time because like, is it too controversial?

But then I was like, no, I'm owning it and it's fierce. And if you're, so now I'm like, gay people are reclaiming fag, but it's like more of like, yes diva. It's like a good, it's like yes diva you better shoot that person on fortnite yes faggot um i one theme that

always comes back for me when i talk about this i like i talk about a lot in my book or my first book over the top it's like i always had like very high highs and very low lows like there was a lot of joy but there was also a lot of grief there Like there was a lot of joy, but there was also a lot of grief there. And there was a lot of severe bullying, but I also had like really important friendships that like got me through all of that. So it was rough, but like, I like, I'm obsessed with figure skating and gymnastics. Like I love music. I love moving. So like, I just always had things that I felt really connected to that I would like do to bridge the gap to like kind of get me through. So as tough as it was in a lot of moments, I had so much passion for life that it did like an eighth grade. I remember I got like this gigantic, like I went to Staples and spent like $15 on like post-its, which had been from like quarters that I'd like siphoned from my

stepdad's like change drawer, which was the second time I'd stolen from him. Cause the first time I used it to go to Walmart and get hair color to dye my hair red. Um, and it did not turn out cute at all. My so-called life? It was bad. And he came home from work and he was, or he came home from like golf or something. He's like, how did that happen to your hair? I was like, I don't know. And then he was like, my, all my change is gone. And I was like, weird. How did that happen? Um, but I got this like post-it book that like, I like counted down the days until I could, like, leave Quincy. It was, like, 4,000 days or something.

It was, like, four years. Or, like, 1,200 days, whatever. It was, like, a lot of days. And so I just, like, always knew that there would be something better and bigger and I could leave. So it was kind of just about, like, bridging the gap until I knew I could get out. When did you leave school? Um, I graduated a year early. So I graduated high school in 2004.

And then you went to university? Yes, but I only made it for a semester. Why? Because I did drugs and became a prostitute. Oh, okay. And so then I was like, hmm, that didn't go so hot. What were you studying? Drugs and prostitution.

It was really communication, but I really wanted to be a lawyer. Okay. But I... Me too. But you wanted to do hair. I really wanted to do hair. But you felt like you needed to go to university. Well, my family was like, you have to go to university, and then you're still talking

about hair in four years. But then I was like, I'll probably be dead if I don't do hair before that, because all this other stuff just sounds awful. And so then I went to hair school in 2005 to 2006, like really fell in love with it real fast where was that in Minneapolis Minneapolis yes it was very cold yes very very very cold some pools I know yeah Minneapolis St. Paul they're like sister cities so it's right there why did you choose Minneapolis because there's this really good hair school there okay um and like Aveda have you ever heard of Aveda yeah so that was like kind of where the founder of Aveda was this man named Porso Rekelbacher.

And he did like the first kind of like organic-y, like natural. Like he was like the first like clean queen in like hair care. And so he was actually, as the lore goes, he was like moving to LA to start Aveda. But he got in this horrific car accident in Minneapolis in like 1978 so he just stayed there and launched Aveda from there so that's why the Aveda Institute was like started in Minneapolis and it had this really good reputation so I moved there to go to school I want to talk about JVN which I've been using I I got sent some I think over a year ago and it's really good it's nice right my daughter uses the hair

yeah she's got curly hair so she can just suck it up and so I put it in her hair before school and then like comb it through and it's really it's they're beautiful products I really love conditioning it's such a good detangler but you have so many products now I do there's 13 you're an it's an empire yes and know, empires are full-time jobs. Yeah, right. Yeah, it always sounds like really cute and fun until someone files for bankruptcy and you have to like fight for the future.

No one's going to file, darling. No, they did. Our old parent company did. And we had to go through that all last year. It was so intense. We had to like really just like battle for our future. And we found our home. And I'm so excited.

Even just like this whole trip to the UK, I was saying it earlier, like I feel like the first part of my career was so like everything that I could have ever dreamed to happen, like did plus some. So it just kind of felt surreal. But as surreal as it felt, it was like, okay, like, I guess this is just like supposed to happen. as it felt, it was like, okay, like, I guess this is just like supposed to happen. And then last year I had, and this year I've just had like such a series of like really intense, like whether it was like our former parent company filing for bankruptcy, health scares, like death in the family, like articles, like it really, like I always was grateful, but I just am so much more grateful for like every experience I get because like I almost, I mean, I have like lost so much and I've experienced so much in this last year

that it just, I am just so much more grateful. Cause like, I mean, especially with JVN hair, I mean, there was like a good like month in the end of 2023 where like when they first filed for bankruptcy, you know, the thought was like, well, you know, your, your hair care line's really successful. Like you guys are doing really good. You'll certainly find a buyer who is going to want to work with you. And the, the problem with bankruptcy is, well, one of the many problems with it is that like the court controls, like has to approve like buying and selling. And I wasn't an owner of my company. So like I really didn't have like say and I mean I did and I didn't.

It really depended on like who potentially wanted to partner with us. And like are you familiar with Jojo? Like the singer Jojo? Of course. I love Jojo so much. But I mean there was a potential where like I could have experienced

something really similar to her but in hair care. Like where someone would have come and bought like the IP of JVN Hair and bought our inventory but they didn't have to necessarily work with me. And there were people who were in our orbit who were interested in this. And, you know, to think that like, I mean, developing these formulas, right. And I like write the copy on our bottles. Like I've just been so intrinsic into this company and I've just worked so hard to like come that far and have it like be

taken. And so like that was a possibility. And then there was like layoffs and there was like just so many decisions and pressure and like cause and effects where a lot of the cause and effects were decisions that like we couldn't make, you know, like a parent company makes, decides like where the money goes and what to invest in and what to pay for and what not to pay for and how to grow and, or how not to grow. And, you know, you have to like clean that mess up. And so it made me, I just learned so much last year and I learned like how much things can change

and how quickly. And so it just, this experience, like being back in the UK here, I've just, I'm so grateful. Like I just have been like so close to tears so many times I'm just so happy to like be here and see this and there was a time made here it's made in the United States okay um but we are sold here we're at Space NK and we've been here for years and so much of our community is here and I mean I think there was just like in

the beauty industry like a lot of people knew what kind of what was going on last year, but you like, you know, when like you're going through a bankruptcy and like, like you can't just like go say anything you want to say. You kind of have to just like be quiet and let things play out and like do your best behind the scenes to like land on your feet. And then we did, we stuck that landing, even though I did get the twisties, you know, in the middle of it. And you know, I, I got severe hair care twisties and uh it was really stressful but we really stuck our landing were you filming Queer Eye at that time as well or not kind of actually um we like season seven and eight we shot together which was back in 2022 so it was kind of around that time where I was like certain things were starting to happen where

I was like wait there's like some of this doesn't like add up. And then by 2023, I think they filed in, it was like July of 2023. So from July of last year, so we didn't film last year at all. So from like July of last year until December, it was just like,

we did not know what was going to happen. Or like, we just literally didn't know where we would land or if we would land or if JVN hair would even exist and so maintaining through that was like incredibly hard but getting to shoot Queer Eye this year was like because I went from all of that fiasco to then there was this like article that was written about Queer Eye and myself in like March but our whole kind of like Queer Eye family had like first learned about this article in like December. So like I went from like this bankruptcy to then like, oh, there's like someone who's like going to write like an investigative takedown, like

expose piece about you that like, isn't really based in reality, but can certainly have a lot of things taken out of context to like make you look as bad as possible. So that could drop any day now. So just so you know, so from like January to March, I was just like walking on eggshells, like being like, when is this going to happen? And then it did finally happen. And then how was that for you? It forced, well, one thing it taught me was that like, I had been getting so much like self-esteem from like social and just like just like my job that like I didn't really think that I did get so much self-esteem from it and then once I had like so many people like at once just be really like I think a lot of people were like looking for a reason to hate me or like looking for a reason to be like see I

always knew that they were a fake cunt and this is like the proof so just and I like my family was like so supportive and my husband and my team but like I didn't even get on social media or like look at my phone for like three weeks no and anytime I tried like to dip my toe in like I would immediately see something that was like so intensely hurtful or just just had so much like just so much like experience it like hits you in the gut doesn't it yeah because I think people forget like you no matter how famous you are like you're still a person and I'm not someone who has like I mean I certainly am in like a more comfortable place financially than I was like five years ago but that article came at like an

incredibly vulnerable time like for my hair care company, for like my whole career, it just was really rough. And it made me learn not to like identify with Armie Hammer, but I thought Armie Hammer's like, um, most recent interview that he did where he was like, you know, so much of my validation did come from my job and it forced him. He was saying how like it forced him to learn how to give himself love. And I think that that article made me realize like how much I'd been put in this position of like being an expert or like being perfect or like, and it made me learn. Cause I mean, I'm someone who champions self acceptance, but sometimes self acceptance looks like having to love yourself through incredibly hard times. And even though I do believe that that article was like overwhelmingly untrue and done in bad faith, there've obviously been times through your career, like through my

career where you're like stressed out or like I may have been like elbow deep in highlights and was like, no, I can't talk about that right now. Like, I mean, I know that there was times where I like could have been better, but I think also being a survivor of abuse and talking about everything that I've talked about, like it took me, like I internalized it so badly where I was like, oh my God, is it true? Like, am I really this bad person? Like, so, and then it forced me to just like really learn how to slow down, disengage, and then really love myself. But sometimes loving yourself just looks like feeling your feelings. And I just had to be sad for a minute. And I just had to like kind of withdraw and go into myself and feel it. And then once I got done feeling it,

I was like, I was able to like get the language to be able to say what I just said. It just kind of paralyzed me. And then it took me a while to like learn like how I wanted to talk about it or if I wanted to talk about it. Had you filmed the most recent Queer Eye by that point or was this also? How, have you filmed it?

Yeah. So how was that stepping in? So the article came out March 5th and then we went back into production like March 23rd.

Oh yeah, vae. It was so intense. It was so intense. I'm going to serve up. Okay, mum. Yes,

mum, we're so, this salad though, the gorgiosity of this salad. You are so generous. Is this like Martha Stewart in a garden? I don't know, but let's talk about your garden. Because I've seen on the gram, don't you have big like pumpkins and shit?

And you've got like nets for them. Don't you want to bring up the pumpkins? You don't want to bring up the pumpkins. No, because I was like, I'll talk about my cancel piece, but we can't talk about pumpkins because if you've ever been to my standup comedy in fun and slutty, I didn't talk about the pumpkins cause I'd processed it by then. But in imaginary living room Olympian, like 30 minutes of that show was like dedicated to pumpkins. So we don't want to go back to that.

Well, I will. I just, I don't want to go into like the 30 minute spiel. Basically there is these like fucking things in Texas called squash borer vine moths. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure you don't have them in England. I don't, I don't know. I called them like the Kellyanne Conway of insects because they were invasive and they like try to ruin your life.

And so basically what these fucking moths do, they lay their evil babies on the vines of your pumpkins and then they hatch their fucking eggs in these vines, and then they eat the vine. Like, they eat their way out of your... So they murder... This is like a horror film. You can have, like, the biggest, most gorgeous pumpkins, like, so thriving, so healthy, and then, like, in three or four days, everything's just dead.

Like, the pumpkin will still be there, but, like, the vines and the leaves... No, even the inside of the pumpkin's fine, but, like, the vines and the leaves, like the inside of the pumpkin's fine but like the vines and the leaves like die and it's like incurable it's like if you catch it early enough you can take this like pesticide and you can put it in a literal syringe and then you can like go outside at night and take a flashlight and shine it on the vines and find the little like babies and then you can stab them in the head and shoot up the vine. Did you do this? Yes. How did that feel? It felt overwhelming because it was really already too far gone based off of like what the gardening expert at the store told us, but I still wanted to try cause they are my babies. There were six pumpkins Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, excuse me. We didn't

have a Saturday cause Saturday like rotted off. Um, but yeah, so we had to harvest our pumpkins in July that year. And then when we did, everyone on Instagram was like, Oh, like, youotted off. But yeah, so we had to harvest our pumpkins in July that year. Yeah. And then when we did, everyone on Instagram was like, oh, like, you know, you're supposed to harvest your pumpkins in the fall. And like, for someone to try to break, you know, a rage issue piece on me when I literally told hundreds of people to go fuck themselves and die twice on that post alone. I mean, seriously.

Like, I've been really open about my anger. Like, I don't fucking bring up my dead pumpkins, you know? Okay. So. But not then. Not now. Just then. This is really important.

And if you see someone harvesting their pumpkins early in America. Give them a break. They got squash borer vine moth and it's literally incurable. And it's like the worst, saddest thing. I would like to know about the rest of the garden. Has, has anywhere else been more um fruitful and consistent yeah so like but I just don't have the same attachment to them as like pineapples and pumpkins I have who says pineapple lol watermelon and pumpkins were like my girls

for like 2020 2021 I just got this like really feral attachment to like those melons like I just and squashes like those two then i went through a major ghost pepper phase which i still what what ghost pepper what's it there's like really hot ass peppers and they're so good okay it's like really spicy oh they're really spicy and they have like an interesting shape they're like a cool shape okay like what color they're red yellow or orange okay and they're really pretty. And they're spicy. Very spicy.

Nice. Like incredibly spicy. And then, oh my gosh, you're working so hard over there. Thank you, mum. This is delicious. Is it nice? Mm-hmm. Like, isn't it so pretty?

Yeah, it looks like mum, you know, picked it from her garden. All the radishes. No, she didn't. Did you not? No. I'd believe it if you had. Alice, do you want some salad? It's really delicious, mum. It's very light. I told you you would like No. I'd believe it if you had. Alice, do you want some salad? It's really delicious, Mum.

It's very light. I told you you would like it. It's good, isn't it? Light, delicious. It's nourishing. It's like a salmon. I like it, Mum. Do you like the horseradish or something? Is this what this is?

Yeah. So delicious. can we ask about his last supper yeah we could starter main pud drink of jesse do you want some more salad does anybody want some salad because there's a big bowl for me. That was very delicious, man. I'll have a little bit more. Good. Mmm. Okay. Well, the drink is a vodka martini with a twist. Very dry, but I want it in like a big gulp. Like I want it like in a 32 ounce. Like I want it big. I don't want like a martini glass.

I want fucking like American extra large. They have an American. Yes. They want like a pitcher. Yes, I want a pitcher. A Mardi Gras. But I don't want like a blended ice drink. I want like a straight up extra cold vodka martini. No ice.

Like just shaken, very cold. But I want the ice straight up. So just like literally. Where's the best one you've ever had? Well, actually, Dean Street Townhouse has like a stunning martini. But also has a really good fucking martini. Is, um, what's that? Sea containers.

That bar on top of sea containers. You need to move to Britain. I know. I love it here. You love it. Then for an appetizer, half raw oysters and like half oysters Rockefeller. What's a Rockefeller oyster? It's like baked oyster with like all this like shit in it.

It's really good. It's really interesting that you choose that, but then you didn't like your Funyuns on your fucking creamy chicken. Well, yeah. I like got like, well, cause it was very like, ugh. But like, this is very like Gorge Yeah For a main dinner

Yeah It's either like Chicken fajitas Or Like Carbonara Like Or like a

Like a vodka Like that Penne alla vodka Like that red sauce Like that Gigi pasta Yes Like that red

Like vodka One Fusilli vodka Yeah But then for dessert This is easy No questions asked Definitely gorgeous Sticky toffee pudding Like that Gigi pasta. Yes. Like that red vodka one. Fusilli vodka. Yes. But then for dessert, this is easy. No questions asked. Definitely gorgeous sticky toffee pudding.

Oh my gosh. I love sticky toffee pudding so much. Did they have that in America? No, I was so deprived. And now I've had, last night I had it at Dean Street Townhouse. The day before that I had it at this like fish place in Soho. I wish I knew that. Scott. What was the name of it, Teresa?

J.C. They have like huge fucking portions of sticky toffee pudding. It's like the whole plate. It's like a huge rectangle. It's like some like little idiot girl, like this tiny little girl. It's like, who wants this? It's just like huge sticky toffee pudding. It's like bigger than the plate.

Oh, where is it? It's so good. In Soho? Yeah. It's like fish restaurant. It's like seafood. I'm like literally sweating thinking about it

oh that sounds very good I wish you'd told me I could have made that no don't but actually lunch time is not good for it's so heavy yeah

so wow you were so decisive that was like bang bang bang I know really I love that I wanted to know do you think you've got

good table manners no really yeah I eat really loud. I like put my elbows on the table. I like chew with my mouth open. A hot mess. I think you're perfectly fine.

That's nice. I didn't put my napkin on my lap. Look at me. I'm a fucking mess. Who would you like to have if you had a dinner party? Who would you like to have? Are they alive or dead? It doesn't matter. We can have them all. Well, after Becoming Fame,

I like feel like I don't, like I like get weirder about like being like, oh, they're like dead because it's like, oh my God, they're families and they're people. But this one like never,

I'm never over it is like definitely Princess Diana and Whitney Houston. Oh, good choice. Yeah. Very good choice. Yeah. Which is your favorite Whitney song?

Okay, this is like really controversial but I was vibing the fuck out of her comeback album um I love Million Dollar Bill yes and I also love um I Look To You do you want to hear a really funny story about I Look To You yeah okay so when I was in rehab um that album had just come out but she hadn't passed away and I would go I'd wake up in the morning and I'd make all this like Folgers coffee. And then I would go in the backyard of this rehab and I'd be singing like, I look to you by myself at like 6.30 in the morning,

but like not very loud because it was like 6.30 in the morning. So I'd just be like, I look to you, I look to you. And then this one day I was singing and this lady across the fence, like next door to us, I just heard this lady be like, yeah, boy, you better sing that song. Come on, sing that song.

And I was like, oh my God my god thanks and then i kept singing then like four people started clapping and i was like so then because like and then like in rehab like you only leave rehab to like go to meetings you know it's like you have to like all go together so we were like i was like who lives next door to us like the next time we left the house i went outside and i looked and it was like this house it was like a halfway house for like black veteran women um and so like I had just been like singing Whitney Houston with like my bad voice and like it's just like waking them up in like the morning they were really sweet like yeah you better sing that song but it didn't sound good so I just like really loved them for like for cheering me on even though it didn't sound good so I just like really loved them for like for cheering me on even though it didn't sound good so you wouldn't sing I will always love you I mean I am not totally delusional I can keep up with Whitney's like range a little bit more towards yeah like not at the not at the

peak not that note but I used to like really try to hit that note in the car but I was more just proud if I could hold it that long yeah you know you'd be able to answer this I have this disease where I can't harmonize. Like, I'll think I'm harmonizing, but then, like, the person I'm with is like, that's the melody. And then I'm like, okay, I'll do it again. Does that mean you sing out of tune, darling? No, it's like I'm, like, too in tune.

Like, I can only do the melody. I, like, can't do harmony. Like, but you must know how to do harmonies because you can probably do anything. I'm obsessed with harmonies. And you do using your own harmonies. I do harmonies to like, so like the kids will be playing Imagine Dragons or Taylor in the car

and I'll be doing the harmony and I know it annoys them. Oh, I love that. It's so annoying for them. I think I finally got the harmony on this one Taylor song. I did it by myself on clean. Okay, let's try it. How's it go? Give me the original. She says, it's like the rain came pouring down when I was drowning Give me the original She says It's like The rain Came

Pouring Down When I was drowned And that's when I could finally breathe Okay so that's the lead Yeah And then what's the harm

But then My harmony comes on the next sentence Which is like Oh The rain Will you just tell me If this is a harmony Okay

Cause I can't tell Okay But we have to do her version Clean Taylor's version We got this Not on our watch Scooter if this is a harmony. Okay. Cause I can't tell. Okay. But we have to do her version. Cleen Taylor's version, we got this. Not on our watch, Scooter. I can't look at you when I do it. Okay, okay.

Okay. In the morning. That's a harmony! Was it? Yeah, I can only do that word! I can only do that word. I was in the bathtub and Was it? Yes, I learned that word. I could only do that word. I was in the bathtub and I didn't. I was like.

I was like, no, I think I heard the buzz. Like in my pussy. Like my pussy like vibrated. Like I got like the. And then so then I called my best friend because she's a singer. And I was like, oh my God, is this a harmony? And then she was like, I can't tell because she like. That was a hominy.

It was right. Yeah. I really had it so well in front of you. She was like, I can't tell because she like. That was a harmony. It was, right? Yeah. Congratulations. I really had it so well in front of you. I mean, my whole life was just like, I was like, ah! Do you see how bad I'm sweating? I was like, oh my God. I was just like, is this going to happen?

And then I did it. You did it. I really slayed. You slayed the fuck out of that harmony. There's only like certain notes. You did two notes. Oh yeah, two. That's great.

Yeah. Are you ready for some pudding? Sure. He might not like this. I'm going to love the shit out of it. You don't even know whether you will. It's summer pudding, which is very British. I love that.

Well, you'll wait and see if you like it. It's like berries and bread. I love berries and bread. That makes it sound so fludgy shit. That looks so fucking good. I can't stand it. Right. Should we try this?

Yes. Okay. Ooh. Little berry surprise inside, mum. I like that. This is very nice, mum. It's, Mom. I like that. This is very nice, Mom. It's so delicious, I can't get over it. Why were you at the White House?

To meet with Vice President Kamala Harris. Is she fabulous? She was amazing. But really, I was talking about, like, I'm really passionate about, like, HIV treatment and prevention and awareness and also Planned Parenthood and reproductive freedom and reproductive health care access. So that's really what, and we're also there to celebrate Queer Eye's 20th anniversary. But I also just like, it's so important for me. I've been living with HIV for over 10 years and it's just so important for me to talk

with our leaders about access to health care and like make sure that it just stays top of mind. But the vice president is a busy woman. She's got a lot to do. Who else was there on the day that you were there? It was me, Carson, and Jay, and then Karamo, and then the two creators

of the show. And the vice president was very casual. Did you eat well? We didn't eat with her. They didn't give you snacks? Okay, actually, interestingly, after we met with her,

they did take us on a tour of the White House, and we got to go to, like, where people go to get their snacks. And? What did you get? I got this really good cookie and water. But it was a very good homemade cookie. Homemade cookie? Yeah, it was, like, giving, like, caramel pretzel chunks.

It was really good. Do you think that's her or Joee's choice i don't know if the president sets like the menu i feel like you're busy i feel like joe would be like do you think yeah i think he does on the week during the week maybe he goes like to delaware on the weekends can you tell me a nostalgic taste from, this doesn't have to be your childhood, but something that can transport you back somewhere? Pop-tarts.

Pop-tarts. Brown sugar cinnamon pop-tarts. Childhood comfort. After a day at school or before school? Before and after. Why limit yourself? I didn't struggle with childhood obesity for nothing. You know, I really loved to eat pop-Tarts as if they were running away from me.

They're so tasty. They are tasty. The brown sugar cinnamon ones especially. I don't know if I've had that. I think we only had the strawberry and the chocolate on this side of the table. Did we have them? Yeah, you'd get them sometimes. You've been such a lot of fun and you're just wonderful.

Thanks for having me. And we really thank you for closing our season with a bang. I didn't even know it was the season finale. I'm glad I didn't know before because I would have been too much fresh. When you said, when you were like, you've been a lot I just thought you were going to stop.

But also thank you for the most delicious lunch ever, Queen. That was so gorgeous. Such a pleasure. And this berry boot. What do you think it's like? I love it. What do you like it?

I love it. I didn't like it, I love it. what a way to close the series just gorgeous gorgeous funny knows themselves was very open and honest i really appreciated that really warm that. Really warm. Really good fun. Yeah. And said queen so brilliantly to you. I don't think you were that keen on my meal. I really liked the salmon. You didn't like the summer pudding?

I do like the summer. I mean, I ate it all, obviously. It was really nice. I just find it odd to have, like, it's like white bread with berries. It just kind of freaks me out. I think it's really clever. Because it's so light.

It was really delicious. I absolutely loved that lunch. That salmon's good, isn't it? Very good. It's dead easy as well. Thank you, Jonathan, for coming on. You can listen to Getting Curious, which is Jonathan's podcast,

and we just did a segment for his part in it. It's called Pretty Curious, which was very fun. Thank you to everyone that's listened to this season. It's been really fun. We've had amazing guests. We've had the most fabulous guests this year.

But thank you so much for listening and we will see you very, very soon. Thank you.