Table Manners with Jessie and Lennie Ware - Second Helpings - Sam Smith

Episode Date: August 23, 2023

For the first of our Second Helpings episodes we take a trip down memory lane with the wonderful Sam Smith. We recorded this episode with Sam in 2017 and it was the very first Table Manners to exist! Over mum's turkey meatballs we talked about Sam's childhood food experiences, living without booze and what they would choose for their last supper. And they did a very scary impression of a movie icon too…! Sam we love you, come and join us again soon. Listeners, we hope you enjoy reminiscing with us. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to Table Manners, a very special edition. Mum, what are we going to call these bonus episodes, these revisited episodes? Rehashed? Rehashed. Isn't that what you do with the beans, those Mexican things? Refried, that's refried. Refried, maybe we'll call it refried. I don't know if that's good. That kind of looks like we killed the episode the first time round. I don't know. Well, let's call it seconds. We're giving you a chance to taste it again. Second helpings.

Second helpings or another taste. I think we've got it. By Jove, we've got it. Welcome to Table Manners. Second helpings. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here on Zoom with my mum. How are you mum? As you know you can't see me darling. Do you want to tell the listener why? The veneer came off last night eating the crust of a pizza with your children.

You're making my children sound like they were complicit in the veneer coming off. They don't eat the crust so I did no that's just you being a greedy cow mom that's exactly right you know people that listen to this podcast know about Lenny's veneers and how scared she is about them and it took a soggy crust to rip that veneer off actually it wasn't that soggy it was the most delicious crust I've ever tasted well your local pizza place no it was not anyway so I can't see you but we shall reminisce about some of our past guests we are going into our 16th series and some of you may have just joined us a lot of you joined us during lockdown

and we have plenty of amazing guests that we had way back when, but maybe you aren't scrolling that far back. You know, this is five years of episodes. So we thought we'd give you a refried, rehashed, reintroduction to some of the early episodes. a way to start them right at the beginning our first ever episode which was in oh my god 2017 November oh my god nearly six years ago who'd have thought I'd be sitting here six years on oh god that's quite bleak I'm glad I'm still here darling what like professionally or kind of or physically physically okay right we are starting from the top it's Sam Smith they came on to talk about an album but really they did me a favor and I think from what I remember mum made her fabulous turkey meatballs which then went on to go into the cookbook they just done Saturday Night Live since then Sam has gone on to have a brilliantly filthy song called Unholy, which we all love.

It's on tour at the moment. It's just quite fabulous. Also, we need to say, you know, this was six years ago. We've learnt from our mistakes. We no longer call The Last Supper a death row meal. However, it is called a death row meal in there. So before you go and email me

telling us that we are awful human beings, we know, and that's why we changed it death row meal however it is called a death row meal in there so before you go and email me telling us that we are awful human beings we know and that's why we changed it about one year in however apologies it's called the death row meal in this and mum is getting a deliveroo why are you getting a deliveroo at nine in the morning that's what i want to know. Because I've got no milk for my coffee. Fair enough. Without further ado, less of Lenny's milk dramas and teeth dramas, actually altogether calcium dramas. I feel calcified, yeah. This is Sam Smith, our very first Table Manners episode.

Enjoy. Hey! Hello Sam Smith! Right, what can I get you to drink? Coffee. What? Coffee please. I'm going to be? Coffee. What? Coffee please. Oh, I know about this. I'm going to be boring today. I made a bet with Max. Who's Max? Max Gerrans.

I know who Max is but everyone else doesn't. I made a bet with him that I basically said I didn't want to drink to Christmas Eve and he said I couldn't do it and I was like I'm going to show you. And if I make it to Christmas Eve he has to get a tattoo of my choice and he's never had a tattoo before. And isn't it going to be on his bottom? On his lower back. And what are you it to Christmas Eve, he has to get a tattoo of my choice. And he's never had a tattoo before. And isn't it going to be on his bottom? On his lower back. And what are you going to put down?

Dick Whisperer. Is that a make-or-do? I won't make him do it. You won't? He thinks I'm going to make him get Dick Whisperer. How are you finding not drinking? It's interesting. It's cleared my head massively. It's so boring. But the last week has been super stressful and I really just want wine. You just want a bloody drink.

But it's fine. It's fine. That's why I'm having a cigarette. Smoking. Yeah. Well, hang on a minute. I'm going to get your coffee. Do you want black coffee or do you want almond milk? Black is great. Thank you. Right, I'm heating up the food. Babe, it's like, so I thought that you were being really healthy. That's what Max said, your manager. He was like, Sam's on a healthy tip.

So I was like, yeah, fine. So we've done something relatively healthy. I mean, mum got you courgettes. She didn't even, she didn't know what cauliflower rice was. But we've got it, but we've actually just got white rice, which is far more delicious. I want a fur rice. A fur rice. I wanted to save myself for this. Okay fine. But it's still, it's not going to make you hate yourself after. No, god no, jeez. I've been eating so badly in New York.

Did you go to Carbono? Where's that? Oh my god, it's the best Italian ever. They do this vodka pasta which is insane. I went to San Ambrosia. Have you been there? No, what is it? Oh, it's incredible. It's Italian as well. They do good Italian in New York.

They really do. So, you were there because you were doing SNL. Yeah. It was stressful, I'm not going to lie. Was it? Why? Why do you think, Mum? It's his first thing back from being the biggest pop star in the world.

But it's like, do you know what it is? It's like in that moment, I mean, obviously you feel like you're in a team. You know this, Jessie. But you have a team around you. But in that moment, it's all on you. It's all on you. And it's live. And it was, I nearly puked in the dress run whilst I was singing.

Because I was starting to feel a bit sick as well. It was horrible. But then I got my, I just had a bit of Coca-Cola, chilled my stomach out. It was really that bad? Yeah. And then I, but I got through it, which was great. Because I always just think of you as brilliant at life well you're the most capable singer I know but like you are brilliant at singing live and I had to get a hypnotherapist for my Jools Holland performance. I didn't think that you got that scared. No I'm getting more and more scared. It's really intense. Why? I don't know. But you're fabulous why would you be scared? I don't know but in the moment I don't... I forget to sing, how to sing.

You forget everything. It's the live TVs that are so intense. And it's like... I think the thing that people forget is your voice. Like, as soon as you're nervous, dry throat, clamps up, can't do it. It's not like playing a trumpet and you can just, like, play it. So true. There's no room for human error, is there, really? No.

And it's sad because you think back, all the music that I'm inspired by and I know that you are too is imperfect you know. All those old soul records you know. Look at Etta James performing live and all that stuff. She was messing up all the time but it was part of it and it was part of the but because of autotune and because of all of that I feel like everyone just wants you to be on the money every time. And I think talent shows too. Yeah. Because I know that I talk about when they go a bit flat.

But then I listened to like, I saw the Whitney documentary recently. Oh my God, me too. Cried. The BBC one. The Nick Brimfield one. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, she goes really flat. And I don't care.

Yeah, completely. You don't care. No, because it's feeling. Yeah. It's feeling. It's, no, care! No, because it's feeling. Yeah! It's feeling. It's... No, it was great. New York's amazing. Well, I mean...

Exciting. It's... SNL, I've never done it. It's like the biggest TV show to do. Yeah. Because you what? You do how many songs of your own? You do two, but then you rehearse on the Thursday and the Saturday you come in and you do two more rehearsals So it's like this big performance that is built up and you have to do do you have to do like comedy skits?

No, no, I didn't do that Fuck no But you're funny! We can swear right? Babe, it's my podcast, come on So to bring it back to the reason we're here firstly, thank you so much for doing this Babe, are you joking? Any excuse to see you. Any excuse to see me.

And any excuse to eat with you. Yes. We've had good meals together. So many good meals. We love food. I love food more than my family. It's the best thing in the world. It is.

It's the only thing that actually gets me through every day. So can I ask you, because I guess for me, just to explain, I decided to do this podcast because obviously you know my mum's a really good cook. She always does this face where she goes, she's great and food's been always important to our family. Like with you growing up, were you a foodie family? Massively. My dad couldn't cook, so my dad was a house husband.

Well, he could cook. It's really bad for me to say that, but every time he'd follow a recipe, he just would pour water in it. I remember him cooking this amazing curry once, and he'd follow the recipe, and it was this Jamie Oliver recipe. It was incredible.

And then he just put the whole entire pot under the tap. I don't know why he did it. It's really weird. Maybe he thought it wasn't enough sauce. Yeah, maybe, but he just, he never trusted the recipe. So dad would always ruin the meals at the last minute, but food wise as a kid it was my mum, my mum's cooking was outrageous. But we also, as a kid, I was very lucky I went out to eat a lot, which was great. But you grew up in near Cambridge?

Yeah, near Cambridge countryside, so there were some beautiful places to go to. But you grew up in near Cambridge. Yeah, near Cambridge countryside so there were some beautiful places to go to but yeah, food I've always had a weird relationship with food though, it's something that I love so much, like my sisters were never that fussed by it I live to eat rather than eat to live. Me too, it's not a problem

I think it's a gift I really do believe it's a gift because I really do believe it's a gift. Because I don't, I watch, I used to watch my sisters and being forced to finish their plates every day. I don't understand that. I don't understand that. It's mad.

I'm already thinking about my second plate when I've just got my serving. I'm thinking about my, I'll be thinking about breakfast on the way home tomorrow. Yeah, it's mad. But, so your mum was a really good cook? Mum's unbelievable. She's got even, like, she's got better now. But she was incredible. But it would, because she worked in the city, it'd be once a week,

which made it more of an event, I guess. So what would it be, like, weekends with the family? Weekends, yeah. Like, roasts? Roasts. She's amazing at all different types of Thai food. But she just loves following recipes. So she'll just go in on it.

So they're both quite strict. They do follow a recipe. Yeah, yeah, massively. Dad tries to. Oh, bless him. He used to just cook a lot of jacket potatoes and cheese and beans, which is still my favourite thing in the world. Me too.

Loads of cheese and beans. Well, I like... So Sam, my husband, who you know, likes to have cold baked beans. Oh. Don't. I didn't understand it until I had it. So we love, Jacket Potato Night is one of my favorite nights

where you have it and you have all the different toppings. So you do tuna mayonnaise. Yeah, coleslaw. Coleslaw, nice salad. I like to do grated carrot with some cheddar just cause you feel a bit less guilty. And then he has cold beans. That's strange.

I don't like that. Yeah, yeah I don't does it taste good I just don't understand why you'd have cold beans but I don't know if it's his way of trying to be salt of the earth and like brings him back to camping in the lake district I don't fucking know but you had a stove there too babe but anyway I have to have cold beans but I I do love a jack of potatoes. Oh, unbelievable. Unbelievable. Do you cook? I try to, but for me, cooking in my family, actually, my mum's side of the family is a huge thing that I link it with getting older. Like, I can't wait to get, like, 60, 70 and just, like, cook.

It's like my retirement plan. Would you open a restaurant? No, just, like, family cooking. I just think it's something that I just want to do when I have more time. I really do it every night. So like, do you ever cook at home? I do actually, yeah. I cook, but mainly really basic stuff. Like what?

Roasted butternut squash with feta and all that stuff. Okay, that's good. I go to the butchers and stuff and get amazing meats and stuff like that. I always ruin the amazing meats that I get from the butchers because I always kind of am impatient and I just turn the heat up really quickly. You should tell them how to... I ask them, I'm like, how do you cook it? And they'll tell me, it's incredible.

But you, yeah, I mean, I remember you came over here. I loved it. You got trained by my husband, personal training. And then to celebrate your training, you brought over cakes for me and you to eat. Healthy cakes. Healthy cakes. Healthy cakes. They were heaven sent. I had one today.

Ridiculous. Can you just explain what they are? They're called aphrodisiac cakes and it's like this gooey chocolate tart thing. But it's all made with cacao. It's raw, isn't it? It's raw and like coconut butter and stuff like that. It's great.

Will you tell Sam what's on the menu tonight? I did turkey meatballs. No, that is not exciting, Sam, but it was because we were trying to do it for you. I like turkey. Yeah, but actually they're really very light and they're almost as good as the Greek ones, the soussoulakia, you know, the ones that are very, very light. So they, and you make them, you put parmesan inside. So they do taste nice, I hope.

Beautiful. So we did get you cauliflower rice and courgette, but I'm taking... Let's just go rice. Okay, fine, thank you. I thought Mexico was in Europe until last year. I got a plane with my manager and he said, and I didn't have any hand luggage, and he was like, why have you not got any hand luggage? And I was like, it's just like a two hour plane journey to Mexico. And he was like, no Sam. What the fuck? Where do you think Mexico is?

And I thought Mexico was like near Germany. Sam, hey! Because if you look at pictures, it looks very Spanish. Not that Spain is near Germany, but it looks very Spanish and everyone speaks Spanish and I just didn't realize it was so far away. So, had you packed correctly?

Nope. Why are you in Mexico on a holiday? No, just gigs. Got a shock of my life, it's a 12 hour plane journey. Very different to Spain and Germany. Can I whip cream with a hand blender? Fuck sake. I'm not fucking whipping it for like, I've got one of those bloody things, I just can't find them.

Hold on mum. Mum, we need whipped cream, this is going to be an issue. Have you got a whisk? I don't mind having non-whipped cream. No, I mind. How do you whip issue. Have you got a whisk? I don't mind having non-whipped cream. I've got... no, I mind. How do you whip cream? Have you got ice cream as well? This is an absolute mess, mum.

Oh, hold on. Hold on. I found a whisk. OK, well, that could take 20 minutes. Oh, hold on. No. I've got a fucking bread-eating whisk. That could take 20 minutes. Oh, my God, look at that whisk. Should I just try and do it for a bit? I mean, how long's it gonna take? A little while, darling.

Think of those arm muscles, babe. No, I haven't been able to work out for ages. I've just had one Pete Sampras bloody bicep. Oh no! Mum, it's already whipping! Good. Oh my god, I'm incredible! Whipping good! Into shape.

Oh. It's not too late. Have I just... I've overdone it. How can I even do that? How did you do that? Oh my god, that's whipped so quickly. No, what the fuck? We froze our guinea pigs by accident when we were kids.

What? How did you freeze them? We left them in the garage and they froze. Shit. I know, but we thought the garage was warm. We were in rock hard. Yeah. And we put like padding and everything there, but they died. Oh, my God. We had nightmares, kids with pets.

We had, like, all our hamsters got eaten by the cat. Oh, yeah, the gerbil, yeah. Jar Jar Binks was my first hamster. I just got mutilated. I'm like, sorry, can you please, just because... Oh, God. No, it's just because I feel like not enough people know how... Well, I mean, a lot of people know you're funny, but, like, I've never... No, it's going to be really embarrassing not enough people know how well I mean a lot of people know you're funny

But like I've never let no it's gonna be really embarrassing for you But I don't care do your impersonation that I love you to do Colin. Yeah It's gonna sound weird with a cold. No, it's gonna sound amazing Stupid fact from it You're in that my process again my It's good isn't it? You're wearing that! My princess. Is it good? My princess. Now you've got the role.

Frodo Branns. It's so good. We had the best Glastonbury of our lives. Me just basically making him repeat that till 6 o'clock in the morning. That's my memory of you babe, you know. Pissing in a bush together. Oh my gosh. Do you remember that? When you were pissed you were squatting in the bush at Glastonbury, I was dead. Babe, you were pissing right by me dad. Oh my god. But the, my favourite. Your daughter. I don't

know if you know this, but the first time I ever met Jessie, I was working in a bar in London and I took two days off of work to go to Bestival to perform with Disclosure for the first time. Is that when we met? Oh god, I've done the wrong story then. No. Is that when we met at Bestival? First time we ever met and I was on the side of the stage and I'd taken a day off work and I was shitting myself because I'd never performed in front of anyone before

and I had to sing Latch and sing with like Disclosure and I wasn't familiar with dance music. I remember watching YouTube videos of you performing in Ibiza with Annie Mack before I'd even met you just trying to gauge like how I would perform. Oh shut up! And I stood side of the stage in the Best of All in the big top ten and I watched you do your set and then I my first memory of Jessie is she met me before and she was like, how are you? My first memory of Jessie is she met me before and she was like, how are you? So I have met you before.

No, no, before I went on, in Bestival, we met outside. I thought we met at Plan B on the side of the stage. No, that was after. I'm a terrible friend. Okay, go on. And then I was performing Latch and something was wrong with my in-ears. And I panicked because I'd never performed with in-ears before. And I turned to my right and you were on the side of the stage. And you ran around the back of the stage to the sound desk and you were helping me with my sound and we'd only just met

and you literally saved me the people's princess they were just such a beautiful person oh babe no that I was saying that my intro well I got the wrong bloody day I thought we met plan b when the uh okay but I just remember it was basically how our romance started that we would dance and vogue on the side of the stage. We knew the set off by heart. Something is boiling. And then it would be like when a fire starts to burn. Vogue. Yeah and it was just so much fun.

It was so, back then it was, there was an excitement wasn't there for all of us. And there was an innocence about it. Yeah, there really was. There was a real scene and it was just like. None of us knew what we were doing. Oh wow. You don't have there for all of us. And there was an innocence about it. There was a real scene and it was just like... None of us knew what we were doing. Oh wow. You don't have to have all of it. Yes I do. Oh thank you.

Sorry it's a bit scratchy. Mum, mum, please announce what we're eating. Okay so there's meringues with cream. Another batch of over-whipped cream. Over with another batch of over with cream. Did you make the meringue? No, I didn't. Oh my. No, but they're not shot bought.

My friend Anne Sweeney makes the best meringues. She basically made them. Yeah. Do you want berries? Yeah, please. That's enough then. Okay. I'm never mad about summer fruits.

Oh, I do. I don't really like fruit, I can't help it. I don't really like fruit. I like them with yoghurt. That leads me to my next question. What is your comfort food? What's your go-to comfort food? Crunchy peanut butter with jam on a cinnamon bagel with loads of butter, toasted, with a glass of milk. Oh sweet, that's a nice one. Why is that? Does it take you back to your childhood? Yeah, my grandma used to... My grandma was the reason why I got fat.

She used to feed me up. My mum and dad would be like, you need to stop eating, when I was like 13, because I was getting huge. And grandma would be like, he's young, he's growing, let him eat. And she just... My parents were really strict, so they were like, he can't eat bad food. And I have a very fond memory of my grandma waking me up at three in the morning in my summer holidays and taking me downstairs and just sitting with me on the kitchen bench, just feeding me peanut butter

and jam on a spoon. I love her. Yeah, she was amazing. Which grandma was it, your mum's mum? It was my mum's mum, yeah. She was incredible, incredible. When did she pass away? When I was 19. She got really sick and we thought she was going to die and we all said our goodbyes and then she had another year.

Oh good. Yeah, and she was amazing. She was smoking weed to the very end. Because she was in so much pain they just gave her weed. So she was just high, basically, for the last year of her life. She had a fabulous time. She had a fabulous time. She had a fabulous time. Was she a good cook? No. So she was just kind of the naughty influence, the bad influence?

Yeah, just a lot of grilled cheese sandwiches and stuff. But she was such a... Oh, God, there's nothing better than having that grandma that just gives you all the things you shouldn't have and it's it's just amazing it's like oh gaga my mom's grandma my mom's mom i mean hers was mostly predominantly like gefilte fish which i don't know i had a really big thing for it was like fried fish it's mixed fish and you put it in balls and you it's a jewish thing. Fish balls really. Some people would like it. But it was good. What's your favourite thing to cook? I like doing Friday night dinner. So I like doing chicken soup with matzo balls, chopped liver. I've never had that either.

I think everyone should have that. I know, sorry, we should have done it. No, I've never had it. Friday night dinner is great. We'll come round to Mum's for a Friday night dinner. Yeah, and we have lots of people, it's always fun. So like chicken, chopped liver, have you ever had that in... No. Not in New York? So it sounds horrible, but it's chicken liver and you make it with egg. Have you never been to Cancer's Deli?

When you've been in New York? Never been, never been, but I know where it is and I know the history of it. Yeah, chicken soup with matzo balls which are very light they're just like a dumpling they're delicious

and then roast chicken often you're smashing it yeah smashing it with other people's meringue yeah but it's don't care

clever resourceful Otolenghi's meringues have you ever seen them yeah they'll do like pistachio yeah I love carrot cake.

Do you? Yeah, I'm obsessed with carrot cake. That's your go-to cake? Yeah, isn't it weird? Why? I love carrot cake and Horlicks. I love Horlicks! Oh my god, I haven't had a Horlicks for about 20 years.

In Whitley Bay, near Newcastle, they do this Horlicks by the Seaside, which is just the best. Why do you go there? That's where my mum's family come from but Whitley Bay is beautiful, but it's it's it's recently it's really run down I think they're putting more money into it and because it's such a beautiful seaside town So what you'd go there for family holidays? Yeah all the time like four or five times a year And you'd have a Horlicks on the beach. Yeah, there's this cafe called Rendezvous and they haven't changed a thing for like 50 years. Oh it's beautiful and they have this

amazing Horlicks that they give you. How do they do it differently or is it literally just Horlicks? It's more creamy and milky. Is hot bovril just a northern thing or is it a London thing? I've never tried it. You get it at football. But I don't know if they do it at football in London. Do You get it at football but I don't know if they do it at football in London. Do they do it at football in London? I don't think they do you know. No I think it's a fucking thing. They're more pucker pies here aren't they? Yeah pucker pies. I fucking hate football. What's pucker pies? It's just like pies, crappy pies that are quite nice. Do you like football? Yeah. I used to adore it and I feel like I've neglected

it since I've been a singer. I can't kind of have my attention on both things. I can't stand it. My dad used to force me to go since I was like five. Who does he support? I used to eat the pies and just look at the boys. Just play I didn't get punched in the face. Because everyone was so aggressive around me. Who does he support?

Fulham. They're not even that bad. It's aggressive for me. I used to dread when they'd score, because everyone would just go fucking mental and it would scare the shit out of me. I'm just sitting there with my pie, just trying to have a chill time. There's some Michael Johnson statues over there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know they've taken us away. I know, I know.

Because it's obscene. It was pretty hideous. It was so terrible. But it's a beautiful ground. It's the best ground and if you're a bit fed up and you go out for a hamburger, you can see all the rivers. Yeah, it's pretty beautiful. All my family work on the vegetable stores on North End Road. Oh do they? Yeah, market traders, they're proper cockney.

Is this on your dad's side? Yeah, yeah. It's fascinating. They all still work there now. How did your mum and dad meet? They met in a pub in, like, Turnham Green. So then how did they end up out in Cambridge? Well, my mum was working in the city. My dad was working with mentally handicapped people. They, I don't know, actually.

I think they just wanted to move into the countryside. But then, and they moved to a place called Linton and then I was born but I was a mistake. Really? Well not a mistake, is that the wrong word? I was, I wasn't meant to be in terms of her being pregnant. But yeah I'm the oldest. But then I think when I was born it changed everything and then three years later my sister Lily was born and then they got a bigger

house in the countryside and really set up there and then they broke up and now they're both mum lives back in London and dad still lives there no but it's like I always dread saying it because I think people think oh no that's really bad but it's their best friends it's really lovely that's really rare when they were splitting up I remember being 18 and just being like, I won't accept, I won't allow this to happen if this is going to be a nasty thing. Like, we can do this and you can break up and still be friends and they're still really good friends. We were talking before, but you were saying something about your music and how you decided on the songs on this record. How did you do it? Meals like this were a huge part of the making of this record because I'd go to the studio

and for the whole year my aim was just to be there for my family for three years it was about me all the time and I just wanted to be there for them for it to be about their issues of what they were going through so that's what I did in the whole year and a half I was off I'd be in the studio during the day finish at five six and just go and spend time with my family every night but that's how I shared the music with them as well like we'd sit and have amazing meals and my mum's all drink some wine and then I'd when after a bit of wine I felt a bit confident to be able to be able to play a few tunes and then I play the tunes and they give me their honest opinion when you'd see in their faces if it moved them or not.

Does anybody else sing in your family? My mum could hold a tune, my sister Mabel couldn't sing, but no, not professionally or anything. So how did it happen that you became so kind of crazy about singing? When did you realise you got a voice? It's got the most amazing voice. Well I know, but when did you realise that? I don't think it's always been with a voice. Do you know what, it's so weird for me because I didn't, singing wasn't even something that

I was just like, I love this so much. It was more like, I remember just singing at eight, being like eight years old and I'd sing along to my to all my mum's songs in the car because it was a 20 minute drive from our house into town because we lived in quite a remote countryside so what would she be playing Aretha Whitney snap Stevie exactly the same as mine yeah and I used to just belt away. And it was my dad who, he said, would you be up for doing singing lessons? And I was like, yeah, sure. I think I remember just being young and wanting to be good at something. Because I wasn't very good in school or anything else.

And I was like, yeah, of course. And dad, really, I don't know why he did this. And I do think it's the main reason why I sing how I sing now. Is he went to a local jazz singer who wasn't even a teacher. So clever. And he was like, would you teach my son how to sing? And she was like, I don't teach, but yeah, just have a lesson. And she just...

How did he know her? He just heard her voice in local jazz bars. Oh my God, that's so clever. Yeah, and then my dad... And then she was like, just bring the music you want to sing and we'll sing it. And I remember being like 10, bringing Amy Winehouse, You Sent Me Flying. Which is probably not appropriate for a 10 year old to sing.

But I remember bringing the musical score and playing it, and she'd play the piano and I'd just sing. And that was my singing lessons for like four or five years, was just singing songs that I wanted to sing with her. I wished I'd done singing lessons like that. I did classical. I got into classical after, which is equally as important. It's important, but like...

And I just wanted to do the jazz musical numbers, so like... But the classical gives you that support. Yeah, maybe, yeah. But you've got it too. You're all right. But that's from my musical theatre training, that's how I got the stomach support that you need. Did you want to be a musical theatre star? Or did you want to be a pop star?

I had a really weird period when I was 14, 15. I was so... I had my first manager when I was 11. Bloody hell, how did you find that? It's a guy that wanted to help me out locally. He was managing the jazz teacher. Well, then your voice must have been pretty remarkable at that age. So that was before your voice broke? Yeah.

I remember sitting with my mum crying one time because I was like, I need to decide right now what I want to do. And how old are you? Because I was like, I need to do 14, 15. I was like, I need to decide what I want to I was like, I need to decide what, what I want to do career wise because I need to start work now. That's what I remember. And she, and I used to sit and cry because I was like, I don't know what to choose. Do I attempt to be in musical theatre or do I try and be a pop singer? And then. And what did she say? My mum actually said, you should, she said said I feel like musical theatre would be harder for you because it's

just because she said because of how many people are in it and I don't know she said it would be harder but she also said she thought I should do musical theatre just because I was 14 years old and I was gay and I was living in a village with no gay people and I was live went to school and there was no gay people in my school. And I think my mum just wanted me to be around gay people or just people of an artistic mindset like me. So she wanted me to go to drama school. But at the same time, she was just like, do whatever you feel.

Did you get a place at drama school? No, I never auditioned. Because your best friend went to Arts Ed, didn't she? Yeah, and I went to Sylvia Plath's Saturday school. And I went four times. Sylvia Plath or Sylvia Young? Sylvia Plath. Sylvia Young.

The most depressing Saturday school ever. Can you imagine ever? Reciting poetry. Singing the bell drop. Right. But I went four times to Saturday school, to Sylvia Young's. Was it horrible? It was great. Oh, you liked it? The fourth time, the singing teacher. It wasn't the proper school. I went four times to Saturday school at Sylvia Young's. Was it horrible?

It was great. Oh, you liked it? The fourth time, the singing teacher. Who was in your class? It wasn't the proper school, so it was just like a Saturday thing. So, Pixie Lott wasn't there? No, no, no. She went to the main school.

She was Italia Conti, wasn't she? Yeah, she was. Oh. I had come, Winehouse got kicked out of Sylvia Young's. But I was... Is that why you wanted to go to Sylvia Young? No, no, no. Because of what I knew?

I just wanted to go because I wanted to do musical theatre. But the singing teacher took interest in my voice and he asked me to start coming to his studio. And I started to go to his studio instead of the Saturday school and record covers. So people were hearing this voice and thinking, we can do something with this. But before I met Sam and Jack, I know of him.

Yeah, your managers. I had seven, I'd had seven managers. I'd recorded one album when I was 15. Oh, wow. Was trying to get out of a record deal that my mum signed. I didn't even sign it. Uh-oh. And was already, yeah.

So by the time I met Sam and Jack, I'd felt like I'd been working for, I had been working for years. And I felt like it wasn't for me. What, doing? Pop music. But that's mental. Just before I met them, I was 18, 19, just moved to London.

And I was like, do you know what? I don't want this life. I was like, I'm going to travel. I said I'd give it one more year of trying and trying to write music that fits. But if it doesn't work out, I'm just going to try and be young and just travel. Wow, I didn't know that. And then it happened, yeah. And Latch?

Lay Me Down first. Lay Me Down? Yeah. First day I met Jimmy, we wrote Lay Me Down. Oh, wow. And then Sam and Jack met me and said, would you be up for writing with Disclosure? So Jimmy is Jimmy Napes who is an amazing songwriter who you write most of your stuff with. And Sam and Jack, your managers, also manage Jimmy.

And they were managing Jimmy at the time were they? Yes, and Disclosure. And Disclosure. And so they heard Lay Me Down and they were like we're having a piece of this incredible play. Yeah, they played it to the boys and then I met Disclosure and the same day I met them we wrote Latch. It's like a weird domino effect.

That first two years was just like, it just all happened so quick. But yeah, so thankful it did. Wow. Have you written a lot with Jimmy this time? Yeah, yeah, he's got, and he produces the record. You went away from each other for a little bit and tried to kind of do your own thing. There was a two-month period where I had to walk away and discover what I wanted to say as an artist.

You know, I love Jimmy, he's amazing, but it's my album, so I have to figure out what I've got to say. And also, me and Jimmy were writing the same song again and again because we listened to in the Lonely Hour too many times. Yeah and then you're probably trying to second-guess you're trying to make a stay with me round two accident not because you necessarily want it I can

presume but you go well yeah that worked and people like it. But then our distance after that two and three we came back and me and him went to Ireland together yeah and we were just writing we came back and me and him went to Ireland together. And we were just writing, we wrote Midnight Train and Pray. You had this, I remember because Jimmy's wife was over here and you were having this kind of slightly romantic getaway. Ireland, you're drinking loads of whiskey. Yeah, Guinness. Guinness.

It was beautiful. What were you eating? We just got to reconnect with each other and being, it was so important to just be in the middle of nowhere and we had no phone signal. We just had to sit and chat and it was just amazing. He's such a vital part of what I do. He really is. Do you want children? You do? Massively. Yeah, it's like my life plan. And I'll do it with or without a man. Would you do adoption or would you do...? I don't know. I think I might do both.

Fair enough. Yeah. I don't know yet. When I went to Iraq, to the camps, it made me want to adopt. Yeah? Yeah, just because there's so many kids out there that just don't have families at home. Who got you involved with? Was it Warchild? Warchild, yeah. It was amazing. Amazing. kids out there. They just don't have families at home. Who got you involved with was it

War Child? War Child, yeah, it was amazing. Amazing. You're gonna do more work with them? Yeah, 100% Incredible, but yeah, I want kids so bad. I just feel like it's nature's way of reminding you that it's not about you It's certainly a way of reminding you. It makes you like not selfish But I've never had a kid, you two have so I don't know It's certainly a way of reminding you. It makes you, like, not selfish. Yeah. But I've never had a kid. You two have, so I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

It's the thing I ever did in my life. Yeah. Without doubt. I mean, it's been wild this year, but it's also pretty amazing. Yeah. That's the best thing. Yeah, but also you've got so many stages to go through. I know.

Are you excited for when you can just sit and have a glass of wine with her? What, with her? Yeah. I have a glass of wine with her? What, with her? Yeah. I have a glass of wine with her when she's in the bath, I'm having wine. Yeah, don't worry, it's already started. But when you can sit and talk about life and like... I know, I can't wait for her to start talking actually. I think that's like...

Yeah, I think she's going to be a great talker. And she's quite funny. She's quite entertaining. And she goes for the laugh, which is quite good fun. Oh, she's going to be wonderful. No, it's going to be wonderful. No, it's going to be a mad year. You're not doing festivals? No, which I'm a bit upset about actually. I wanted to do them.

Would you do them the year after maybe? But it depends how long it goes on for, right? How long did the last one go? Like two and a half years? Yeah, yeah. Too long or not? It felt too long, but it was longer because of the Bond thing. But it's, I don't know, I don't know. The music has changed so much.

I know. Going into it, like, it's crazy how much it's changed in three years. Streaming, I know. It's mad, like, and I don't know. It's weird, I was talking to John Mayer the other day. He said something amazing to me. I fancy him so much. He's beautiful. But he said something amazing to me. I fancy him so much. He's beautiful. But he said something amazing which will stay with me forever. He was like,

he said, we make red t-shirts. Everyone's making blue t-shirts right now. Don't make bad blue t-shirts. Carry on making good red t-shirts and camp out. And it's so true. That's such a good idea. Isn't it so nice? Yeah, it's true. I think it's so true. Because I just think in the climate of music right now, people aren't really listening to singer-songwriters. I'm talking about more just like the climate of pop music

when you're performing at award shows and stuff. It's just, I feel like the odd one out a little bit sometimes. We're both kind of waiting. I mean, I think we know your album's going to do all right. But it's just this weird period before the album comes out where you're just in this thresh up, it's just slightly unnerving. When really all you want to do is play the gigs. Completely.

Once it's out it'll be beautiful and fine. It's just the hype that is a lot isn't it? It must be hard for you at the moment. It's fine. It's fine. You're dealing with it really well. I feel really chilled. You seem really relaxed. I think it's the non-drinking that helps. Really? But You're dealing with it really well. I feel really chilled. You seem really relaxed.

I think it's the non-drinking that helps. Really? But you're not a massive drinker. No, but I think before when something good would happen, I'd go out and celebrate and then it just made everything more like oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. Whereas now, I just go to hotel room and chill and kind of wind down and I don't know. I'm still watching Bake Off at eight o'clock on a Tuesday. It's a dream man. Whilst promoting a record is great. Right back to the food.

Death Row we haven't asked this one. What's your final meal? Fish and chips. From where? Large fish and chips. From where? From a legit like really good seaside fish and chip shop. Okay, fine.

But fish and chips with a pickled onion, a battered sausage, bread and butter. The shop. Bread and butter and a Savoy for the walk. So you're not even going starter? No, just like the biggest main meal. You're just going three meat mains? Basically everything that's in the fish and chip shop. Is that one of your favourite things?

Yeah. When do you have it? And curry sauce. I forgot. When do you have that? Do you have it a lot? No, but it's one of those ones you eat it and then you have to open your buttons

and just lay back and roll around. It's like Christmas dinner. Do you have Christmas dinners? Do you have to excuse yourself and lay on the bed for a minute? No, I lay on the sofa and then I rev myself up for the turkey sandwich. Really?

That I'll eat whilst watching TV. Like, I don't give up. I knock myself out. I have to go and lay down and I roll around in pain. Like a buffalo. And then come back down and do roll around in pain like a buffalo and then come back down and do it again.

Who's cooking Christmas? We change, we alternate between mum and dad. So last year was dad's Christmas which was great. And will your mum go? We see mum boxing day. Oh okay. So we just change it. So we have mum Christmas this year which is great.

And she's great for... It'll be better food. Yeah. Will you cook anything? No. No, Mum loves doing it. But I think we might do something for Boxing Day at my house with my dad and his family and stuff, which would be nice. Right, OK, last question.

As this is called Table Manners, what Table Manners do you require or what really pisses you off at the dinner table when people are doing certain things? Do you know what my mum was huge on table manners. Really? Huge yeah it was a big like big thing as kids she like what would she make you do because my mum used to always say she hated it when you'd eat and then hold your cutlery up like that when you're talking. So you'd have to put your cutlery down.

You'd have to put your cutlery down when you're eating. I hate when people rush and just have their head in it. That's me. Other than that, nothing. For me, sitting around a table eating dinner is about taking your time, conversation, sharing food, I think. Me too.

I share too much. I take all the food before everybody can share it. That's the problem. People don't like sharing with me. I'm like one of my team in the restaurants. I'm always like, start us to share whenever we go anywhere. Me too. Because I don't see the point of being in an amazing restaurant and us all not experiencing the same thing together.

Agreed. The only thing is if you share with Jessie, she's eaten it. I don't understand why people in curry places get their own main. I'm like, fuck you. Weird. Me too, I get aggressive. Thanks so much for being on this.

Pleasure, babe. It's so nice. It's just nice to see you, isn't it? Yeah, it really is. No, I'm really, really happy we got to chat. Me too. Thank you so much for being on Table Manners. Thank you for having me.

Thank you for cooking. Pleasure, darling. Thank you. We'll do Friday night dinner next time. Yes. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. and that was it that was second helpings uh with sam smith thank you to sam for coming on the podcast i feel like they are due coming back on i think so i wonder what they're eating nowadays thank you for listening and And during this summer,

we will be giving you more of these second helpings of brilliant guests that we've had on Table Manners. Hope you enjoy them. If you fancy chatting about these episodes, these wonderful divine guests, send an email into hello at tablemannerspodcast.com and we'll see you next week.