Taking 20 Podcast - Ep 123 - Running Games for Younger Players w Paul Lazrow

Episode Date: May 1, 2022

Running games for younger players has some similarities to running games for adults but there are some key differences that we all must be mindful of.  In this episode I interview Paul Lazrow of AdventuringPortal.com who is a professional DM for younger players.  We discuss the changes you should and should not make while running a game for children, the use of RPGs in education, and how children approach problems differently than adults.   #DnD #DungeonsandDragons #Pathfinder #AdventurePortal

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to episode 123 of the Taking20 podcast. This week, all about DMing for younger players, my interview with Paul Lazaro. This week's sponsor, chairs. Remember, if you love someone, you should offer them a seat when they come over. After all, chairing is caring. As a reminder, we have a ko-fi.com slash taking20podcast. Please consider donating to the podcast to offset some of the operational costs. Fair warning, this is a supersized episode like most of my interview episodes are.

The relatively little editing I do is to slightly condense the episode for time purposes, but not to alter the content. I'd rather be respectful of my guests' answers than be a slave to the 20-minute format. That being said, thank you so much for listening. On with the episode. Being a DM for younger players requires a slightly different application of your skills behind the screen. I've run a few one-shots for kids, but I believe one of the hallmarks of wisdom is to know when other people are a heck of a lot more qualified than you are. So I reached out to the DM from adventuringportal.com, Paul Lazaro, who has DM'd many more sessions for kids than I ever will. How much do I believe in Paul as a DM? He's been a DM for my son multiple times. Paul, thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks so for having me I'm thrilled to be here and love what you do

Excellent, well tell me about yourself Okay, sure So honestly, I mean, I'm a video gamer I started off as a gamer, video gamer I still love video games But I, you know, grew up playing, you know, Zork and Might and Magic. And I grew up during the Satanic Panic. I guess because of that, I didn't know a lot of people that played D&D. You know, I went through college and I, you know and I didn't seek it out because I was very happy playing those games.

It wasn't until after college that I had my real first experience playing tabletop role playing games. role-playing games. Myself and a bunch of my friends got together and we played Vampire, Werewolf, and D&D. I was living in Japan at the time. Oh, wow. So you kind of came to gaming a little bit later. I mean, like you, I grew up in the satanic panic. I found a couple of people in high school that were somewhat interested in the game, know in dungeons and dragons at the time but in college uh i wound up early on my freshman year somebody had hung up a hey you know on saturday mornings we have a group that gets together in games and so i kind of piled in down there and that's where i discovered stuff like you mentioned you know vampire i discovered um mech warrior and the like. So mech warrior basically, which is just a math with, you know, hidden behind robots. That's all it was.

Yeah. Cool. Cool. I mean, I have a distinct memory of being real happy at my computer playing, you know, wizards, whatever. And thinking like, I don't want to go down in the basement in the steam pipes all around oh no i get that believe me yeah i feel foolish now but i mean it was a real thing so you discovered you know you really kind of came into your own as far as gaming goes in college how long have you been uh been a dungeon master oring? I mean, on and off since then, you know, just to kind of bring it a little bit up to present, a little bit before the craziness over the last couple of years, I got together

with friends from different states. We were, and I was running them through Lost Minds of Phandelver. My son and a couple of his frosens, frosens being like, you know, friends that are kind of cousins, but not really family friends. Yeah. Anyway, it transitioned from that right into the mess. Yeah. Anyway, it transitioned from that right into the mess. And, you know, that summer, all these summer camps were being closed. Kind of was having a blast running games with kids and wanted to continue. So tried Adventuring Portal and here we are. Excellent. So you started adventuring portal i guess what

was it 2020 2019 2019 2019 excellent back in the day isn't it awful that it feels like with covid i mean it feels like 2019 is back in the day you know you know obviously i say that jokingly but i mean yeah it's just like different lifetimes. It really feels like it, you know, because pre-COVID, obviously, getting together in person was the norm, you know, for most of my D&D groups. And it's preferable, right? I'm not here as the founder of Adventuring Portal, like saying, oh, online's, it's way better than in person. It's always better in person. I mean, there's so many like negative parts to online gaming, but you know, you can't have like players from Alaska and Florida get together and game.

Do all of your games, both, I guess a two-part question uh do your all your games on adventuringportal.com use the dnd 5e system yes and uh what about when you're not uh running games for kids on adventuringportal.com i have a board game group and we trying blades in the dark right now. I've tried Esper Genesis. Oh, I played that one. Yeah. Well, I'm very excited about Spelljammer right now. Well, yes, me too. Science fiction.

That's my jam. I really like it. I only have positive things to say about Esper Genesis. I only have positive things to say about Esper Genesis. I mean, you know, they're going to be in trouble when Spelljammer comes out. On Roll20, you do not have the ability to level up your characters using the, you know, the click, click, click. Oh. So they never made a full integration. Well, anyway. That's unfortunate but yeah yeah

yeah but i mean i uh what's another great one humblewood i'm playing that's fun yeah yeah yeah i guess one thing i would like to in your own words uh how would you describe adventuringportal.com what it is what it does i mean adventuring portal we're a live guided online gaming service for kids we run games after school we run games during holidays and for summer camps excellent and what age ranges do you ranges do you run games for? When you talk about kids, obviously you can't have a 16-year-old and an 8-year-old together. That's not a good recipe. So we try to break it up. We have three age ranges. The real young kids, 8, 9-year-olds.

We try to keep kids that are players that are that young separate. And then, you know, 10, 11, 12 is another range. And then, you know, 13, 14, 15, 16 is the last range. Of course, there's a little overlap, but anything over four years is probably too much. Absolutely. Especially when you talk about wide age ranges, I would imagine, you know, a 16, 17 year old can handle a much more complex plot than say a nine year old could. Yeah. I mean, we've had it happen when their siblings, you know, the parents are like, look, you know, take them together. Don't take them. And then, you know, I have to kind of go around and make sure

everyone else is okay because uh putting together a group it's everyone has to buy in right absolutely so you are all your games on roll 20 everything's on roll 20 started with roll 20. I mean, you know, once he's honestly, once you start loading on the supplements, you're, you know, all of a sudden you're four or five supplements in, you build your account up stuff to just switch. I think roll 20 is a great, great platform and it runs, it runs everything. Absolutely. And we were on roll 20 i mean you know obviously for the most

of the pandemic and as an as an experiment we ran a couple games on you know a few other different types of uh virtual tabletops foundry and and that kind of thing i think each one of them has their advantages and disadvantages yeah i mean with technology, there will be some really cool stuff coming out. But at the end of the day, if you're playing D&D, why bother trying to do special lighting and all this like video effects? is awesome but it gets in the way a little too much at this point i think when we run games on roll 20 we are just like old school covering the map up and as players progress revealing just a little section at a time when you stay away from dynamic lighting i think it it helps the game flow more kids get frustrated especially if the technology gets in the way of fun which does not happen too much i mean look what is the the biggest complaint about online play it's the ability not to communicate as a group effectively, right? I mean, Zoom does not allow group chat. Right.

One person is generally talking and it kind of dominates the channel. Yeah. If all of a sudden you and I are talking at the same time, no one can really hear. And imagine if there's four players plus one DM. It's too much. So, I mean, you know, the way to, there's a way to kind of maybe alleviate that and just, you know, use the kind of turn order, combat turn order, turn it into a social turn order.

So that helps a little bit. It's never as great as in person. Sure. Believe me, I miss gaming in person. Both of my, well, two of my three gaming groups that the two who could do in person are having that conversation again. So I can't wait till we get back in person. Even the in-person groups, it's just tough with scheduling. Sure. Right. There's just like that little adventure.

Oh, I don't have to drive 30 minutes to my buddy's house. Okay. Well, yeah, let's just jump on. Right. And there's an advantage there. And I'm all for anything that lets people play. You know, I've had people basically kind of come up to me and say, you know, oh, like on a previous episode, you mentioned that you like, you know, X virtual tabletop over Y virtual tabletop. And I'll immediately say, look, if you guys like whatever, you know, our arcana or a home written thing, or you want to set up a camera and do it over zoom, go with the gods, my friend, that, you know, is anything that allows you to game and anything that your group can, can either work with or enjoy, then yeah, I'm all for it. Now, suppose someone listening wanted their child to join a game on adventuringportal.com.

What would they need to know going in? Like, do they need any experience with RPGs? Absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing. One of the questions a lot of parents ask me is, oh, does my child need to know anything beforehand? Or, you know, they'll come in with a group and say, well, you know, his friend or her friend or their friend has experience, but not my son or daughter. And I mean, I kind of love to use maybe golf tennis analogy. When you're playing tennis, if you have two people that are different levels, there is absolutely no way for everyone to have fun. If you play golf, two people with different levels, then the good person

can play their own game. And the person that is terrible at golf, like me, can play their own game. like me can play their own game and as long as we can walk at the same pace we can both enjoy the game together the point is you need nothing to start playing dnd just your imagination excellent excellent and they don't even need dice or character sheets or anything else you supply all of that no no of course of Everything, everything's on roll 20. It's all in one. We recommend people have a laptop with a mouse, but plenty of people play on their iPods and sometimes they share microphones

and we recommend headphones, but it's not necessary. What I'd like to do is I'd like to, you've DMed for both adults and children What I'd like to do is I'd like to, you've DM'd for both adults and children. I'd like to ask you some questions about maybe the differences of DMing for kids. Let's do it. What do you change about, say, a narrative or a plot for the adventures that you run for kids? Like, do you have to change scope or stakes of the adventure or anything? Not really. We do not change anything significantly.

Of course, running a game for kids is different, right? It has to be. They're children. But the basics of running a game are the same, right? Everyone who runs a game has to concern themselves with the pacing of the game. They have to think about player engagement. They have to think about group dynamics, spotlighting players, and of course, game preparation. It's all the same. Maybe with kids, there might be a little more preparation. little more preparation. The biggest difference with children is that a lot of times they are experiencing free agency for the first time. When I'm teaching D&D, I put players in a situation where they have to go to the bartender and the bartender gives them a task, right? Very common.

But when they get to the bartender, the bartender says, you know, what do you have to drink? Or what do you have to eat? You know, sometimes I'll even bring it down a notch. And that might trip up a player who's eight, nine, ten. Maybe they've never ordered for themselves, right? Their parents are always around. for themselves, right? Their parents are always around. And so, you know, some kids,

they're experiencing these situations for the first time at the table. And, you know, you really have to kind of be aware of that situation, as well as different like social and emotional situations that for an adult, maybe they've seen around, but for a kid, maybe they've never negotiated a contract before, even thought about negotiating a contract. Who knows? It's very interesting because I've never thought about that, that that, maybe their first chance at making some of these decisions for themselves. Is there a tip or trick that you've used to get them to encourage, to embrace that agency that they now have?

I mean, that's the million dollar question, right? How do you get player engagement? I don't know. How do you get player engagement? I don't know. I mean, with kids, there's maybe a little list. With kids, maybe more than adults, you have to expect animal companions. I have been reading a lot about this. Oh, you know, people are complaining online.

I don't want my game to be like Animal Crossing. But if you're just having fun why not right why not have everyone have their bunny rabbit or whatever animal it is i've seen my players try to tame every animal whether you know a blank dog even when you're like well you know you're not supposed to be able to tame animals that aren't household pets whoa it doesn't matter you know oh blink dog blink dog okay let's go but that's awesome because i mean it's it's one of those things where in that case the rules get in the way of the players having a good time and for sure if the adventure doesn't if it doesn't matter that the the players have a whatever a pet boar then you know for the rest of the adventure

then sure yeah make it make a roll see how your animal handling is or make me a skill check and let's see what happens no doubt no doubt i mean look i've got a couple bullet points in mind to talk about please there's absolutely no order or significance in terms of weight in here but i mean certainly as per what we were just talking about running your game rules light that's probably up there right i mean i don't like to count arrows spell slots you know we'll get into maybe a little more with older kids younger kids maybe i won't even say anything kids love peaceful resolutions maybe more than adults i think and yet it's kind of contrary to what i'm about to say but it's no surprise that combat is the most popular pillar.

That's been my experience as well, especially when I've run a few one-shots for neighborhood kids, friends, that kind of thing, who want to get introduced to the hobby. And combat was definitely the thing that they enjoyed the most. Well, it actually dovetails nicely into one of the questions that I have for you which is you know sometimes when you're deeming especially for younger kids um yeah the the players can really get rowdy and it can get chaotic and kind of kind of crazy um what are your tips to kind of

uh you know try to rein that back in and try to get people back on track as far as the adventure goes that that really does get under the kind of possible murder hobo umbrella as well sometimes you have to let off a little steam sure but if you have a group and you know one or two players are getting rowdy and maybe you're feeling like the other players aren't really feeling that, then, I mean, sometimes you have to try to nip anything in the bud as soon as possible. I mean, obviously, you know, you have to be more reflective and think about, is this a game pacing issue, Is this a game pacing issue, right? I mean, are you just like reading box text?

There's some things to do. I mean, in the best case scenario, the players around the rowdy players themselves are taking care of the situation. But that doesn't always happen, right? You cannot rely on that for sure. If you are the adult at the table, you may have to manually shift that spotlight to, you know, Hey guys, Lori hasn't spoken in a few minutes, Lori, what's your character thinking right now? And so you may have to kind of take that control and interject a little more forcefully than you may have to with adults. Agree? Agreed. 100%. And that's where I love the use of the turn order as a social turn order,

because then it's like, you don't have to be like, yo, your time's up. You establish how the game is going to run. And that's what you do every single time. So sometimes that helps too, right? There's no magic bullet though. Kind of take it as it comes, hold on and ride the bull for as long as you can. Yeah. I mean, that's like classroom teachers deal. We deal with that all the time, deal with that all the time. How do you deal with a rowdy class? So whenever you're describing a scene, like a non-combat scene, like maybe they're adventuring from place to place or they're going in a dungeon from room to room, do you have to change your style about what you describe and the information that you provide, et cetera, for children compared to, say, describing that same room for adults? That's a great question. My quick answer is no. And here's

why. Because I am not a huge fan of really anything beyond like a three bullet point description. When a new scene occurs, you have like three bullet points in mind that you want to get across in terms of description, right? Maybe there's some actions that are happening that's separate, but if you're just describing something, just have three bullet points in your mind, go forth, try not to be too verbose, plain speak, and be open to questions and answers. Do you find, I mean, you mentioned that the kids that you've DM'd tend to find some non-combat, non-violent resolutions for a lot of situations. Yes.

Do you find that kids focus on different things in your adventures than maybe you would expect, say, older kids to do? No. No, I mean, I think kids focus on what image you as the dungeon master try to present. Very open, maybe not as cynical as adults, a little more open. You know, again, it's like they are experiencing tropes for the first time. I'm all for not starting an adventure in a tavern, but you know, for kids, they've never even been to a tavern. So, you know, what are you going to do? No, that's true. And I have to admit one thing that I, I cheat whenever I'm having to like,

for example, improvise a plot point or a little mini-adventure, kids haven't seen a lot of movies. So there's a lot of stuff that you can borrow from, say, the 2000s, the 90s, maybe even further back if you have gray in your hair like I do. It's like they have no idea that they're actually just reliving the entire plot of Die Hard. Yeah, yeah. plot of Die Hard. Yeah, yeah. But look, let me circle back to tips for running a game for kids, because I think that's a pretty interesting topic. You know, for sure, you have to shorten the length of a game for adults. Sometimes you hear about adults playing games, the sessions that are four or five, six hours, that's never going to happen with a kid, you know, two or three hours max. We talked about really rules light being important. I mean,

certainly I think this is the same in person, but you have to use theater of the mind rarely. to use theater of the mind rarely. I think having as many manipulatives, assets, anything physical is awesome for a kid. And when I said earlier about the preparation being just a little bit more for kids than adults, I guess what I'm talking about is when you run a game for children who are new to the game, whether they think they're new to the game or not, you always have to be ready to present their option. Because sometimes, you know, someone will get in the habit of their long sword roll was awesome. So they keep using it, even though, you know, maybe they're a magician or magic user. So it's just nice to, you know, present options all the time, be ready all the time to present options because you're

teaching the game, right? Sure. What other tips would you have for, you know, DMs who've been asked to, to DM or GM for a younger crowd? I mean, certainly you have to have a strong session zero, set the tone, make sure everyone's on the same page, know what they will expect. I love to use at the end of each game, stars and wishes. Have you, have you used that in your games before? I have not. Can you explain it? It's pretty cool. First of all, in no way did I invent not. Can you explain it? It's pretty cool. First of all, in no way did I invent this.

I told my wife about this and she's like, oh, yeah, you know, we've been using that, you know, in the teaching profession for decades. Okay, here's how it goes. At the end of every game, and this works for adults as well, you go around the table and you ask everyone what is one cool thing someone else did in the group right and that's the star right and then the wish is just a simple like what do you what's something you want to see in the next game but by nailing those two questions as a dm as someone that's running the game one you, you're getting the critical feedback, right? What do you want to see? That's the wish.

But the star is really interesting. You're not being asked, what's one cool thing you did? You're being asked, what's one cool thing someone else did? When you think about that, that's another way to increase teamwork, the unity of the group. It's also another way to kind of teach empathy, right? It really throws people off the first time. And then the second time they're prepared. You know, you can kind of see like someone making a note during the game. I'm going to say that. But look, you need to demonstrate the fun. You don't have to use silly voice or accent, but that helps.

You certainly need to show your players how awesome the game is. Right. And we talked about murder hobos. Sometimes, you know, you have to expect it. Obviously, it's not always okay. I know that you did a whole episode on that. But you just, again, don't be surprised if that happens. Why? Because kids are coming directly from video games. And that teaches murder hoboing, right? It does. No, you're right. Every first-person shooter is a murder hobo situation.

And they're taught over and over again, if a gun doesn't work, get a bigger gun. You're right. I said it at the start. I'm a gamer, so. I know. I said it at the start, I'm a gamer, so I know. When you're introducing kids to Dungeons and Dragons, of course, they're going to have the video game mentality.

And so you have to fight that mentality. And that is the murder hobo mentality. is the murder hobo mentality. Sometimes, you know, someone that's not playing a lot of first-person shooters isn't going to come into D&D with that. But sometimes, you know, someone that's fresh off a game that's all about killing, that's all they want to do. So you have to show them the fun, right?

D&D, it's not a winning or losing game. You know, you can explore and interact, foster your imagination, show the collaboration. It's tough in the beginning, but you have to demonstrate why tabletop role-playing games. Yeah, we're talking about D&D, but, you know, we can switch D&D out for Vampire or some other game, but, you know, can switch dnd out for vampire or or some other game but you know

let's stick with dnd i mean that's why the video games are not as good as playing with your friends and the thing that i've had to probably the the biggest wow moment i see in a lot of players eyes who have never played rpgs before and maybe they came from a video game background. In video games, for example, you might be in the town of whatever, you know, Ravensclaw, and there are mountains off in the distance, but you can't go to them because there's an invisible wall

or the plot won't take you there. Whereas around the table, if they say, well, I want to go visit that mountain way off in the distance, theoretically, if you've prepared as a DM or if you can improvise a little adventure doing that, they can go do those things. There's not a, the programmer hasn't prepared this for you, so you can't go do that. Yeah, I'm with you.

Yeah, you've got options. Now, there's one last topic I wanted to make sure I brought up, Paul. Yeah, you've got options. Now, there's one last topic I wanted to make sure I brought up, Paul. One of the things that you and I briefly discussed, and I found a lot of information about on your website, is your games are neurodivergent player friendly, right? Sure, for sure. Dungeons and Dragons, exactly what we were just talking about, right? You can do anything. you can go anywhere yes all of that's true there's improvisation but Dungeons and Dragons is also

a game that follows a strict pattern right every game follows the same pattern. You as the storyteller, aka dungeon master, game master, start the same. You describe the scene, your players tell you what they want to do. You roll the dice, the dice tells the story, and then you repeat. Is that fair? That's fair. Oh, that's very fair. I think so. Yeah. Okay. So with that kind of structure in mind, Dungeons and Dragons is an amazing game for anyone that's neurodivergent. It builds social skills. It's fun. It's engaging. It allows a huge chunk of time for parents to kind of do their own thing while their kids are playing. And, you know, that pattern that a player can rely on, there's a lot of safety in that, right? Even with all that improvisation within the game of Dungeons and

Dragons, that basic pattern is the same. I mean, combat, well, you know, there's not a lot of improvisation with combat. Sure, you can add description, but, you know, roll the dice. Is your dice roll higher than the AC? Yes then what's the damage right that's always the same and so i think that that pattern really helps a lot of players and you know through playing dnd i think people get some feel a self-worth right a valued member of the team and you know again back to that pattern it you know relieves any like anxiety there's like no pressure to you know all of a sudden go into some crazy accent you know role playing it's more than just accents right our our games are incredibly neurodivergent friendly i think all our players have fun excellent yeah and do we do anything different for someone that's

neurodivergent i mean sometimes yes sometimes no every group is different but i mean just like running a game for kids is a little different. You have to be prepared to maybe turn off the music if that might be annoying. You talk to the parents beforehand. Make sure everyone's on the same page. Try to understand if there's any triggers you need to know about. Just like anyone else. I mean, everyone loves a good map, right? Everyone loves a good tangible.

You know, one thing I love to encourage is everyone have a physical character sheet. You know, you don't need it at all. But, you know, if someone has one little tiny, like 13 computer in front of them and, and roll 20 is up, Oh, that's too much. You know, you have to have like a lot of space. I work with two screens and sometimes I want three. Here's the, here's the problem, Paul. And here's, here's what I'm going to tell you.

I've got three screens. I want four. Yeah. Okay. I hear you. So that's the bad news. It never ends. I could put a fourth one right up here and I would be very, very happy. And then probably after I did that, I would want to start another column over here and make a fifth.

So. I hear you. And look, you know, I just bought a new camera. I want the newer version. Oh, I think that happens to all of us, unfortunately. Right. Yes. Yeah. Now you run games all throughout the year on adventuringportal.com, right? Yes. Yes, that's correct.

And if somebody wanted to reserve a seat at one of your tables, if somebody wanted to have their child join an adventure with you, how would they do that? Ooh, thanks for asking. Yeah. And look look just simply go on adventuringportal.com you'll see our phone number it's a place to email me i put together all the games uh i used to say they were hand curated which is a fancy way to say I put them together. But look, you know, maybe if any of your listeners are interested in running a game for Adventuring Portal, we're open to that as well.

So Paul, what questions have I not asked? What topics would you like to cover that maybe we haven't had time to before now? We've talked about player engagement, how to increase that, which, I mean, there is absolutely no magic bullet, right? There's no one quick answer there. We've talked about D and D for neuro divergent players. We haven't really talked about D&D in education. That's true. That's a good point. Yeah.

Want to hear a little lesson plan that I whipped together for this? Yes, please. Yeah, sure, sure. I come from the classroom, and it is a dream for educators to have the time to play D&D in the classroom. If you are teaching in the public school system, there is no space for free time, right? It's all test, test, test scores,

test, test, test, teach the test. Maybe that changes a little bit. Some places, yes, no, whatever. But it's tough. However, Dungeons and Dragons can still be used in a classroom as one piece to the educational puzzle or the educational pie. pie. And I'm thinking cross-curricular, right? So obviously you can teach math, you know, addition and subtraction. Numeracy is huge, right? But when I say cross-curricular, I'm talking about having one adventure, like a one-shot, right? Something short, three hour one shot that you would play in a classroom, whether it be homeschool or in an actual public school classroom, break it up into all the major subjects. So, you know, writing, math, social studies, science, art, even music, right? Props to music. Sorry. I'm just not a musician. So I think of that last. A little one shot, whatever it is, right? You have someone comes to you with a simple task

and you're sent on a mission, right? Lesson one would be writing, right? Create your character's backstory right start with a one-page rough draft do a whole like pre-writing drafting revising editing and at the end bam you have yourself a nice little two or three paragraph backstory of your character bam one. Then you can get to the good stuff, which for me is math. The great thing about Dungeons & Dragons, there's so many different math lessons around, but the best thing about D&D is that it reduces math phobia.

That's a good point. I'm not good at math. I, I'm, you know, that's an attitude, right? You know, every math teacher hears that, right? Every, even if it's the parents, oh, you know, I don't know how to teach Johnny this, whatever. By playing D&D, you are around numbers so much that you just like naturally increase your numeracy. You are comfortable around numbers. Now, obviously, if you have to put like a little lesson, I like to, what weapon to choose, right? Say, well, oh, you know, your sword is plus three or whatever statistics you want to throw up in front, but like a sword versus a spell and look at that whole little matrix and teach about that. Social studies, you can bring in scarcity of goods, all types of politics uh situations come into play and for

science i saw a really cool article where someone um was a high school chemistry teacher and he was designing a unit around chemistry which for players, everyone's like elementary school, middle school, so chemistry doesn't fly. But, you know, if you think about like, what kind of science would you see if you visited a forge, right? What about doing battle? Or what kind of science would you see just traveling normally on the road? You know, you can hit every major topic, every major science topic with those broad subjects. I don't know, wrap it up maybe with art. I'd love to talk about mazes and labyrinths.

You draw your own maze or labyrinth. That's always cool. And then music. I'm not going to embarrass myself, but you know, there's plenty of room for music lessons there, right? I have blog posts about each one of these or talk a little bit more in depth and show what examples and what an actual lesson plan might look like. And those blog posts are over on adventuringportal.com? For sure. For sure. Any parting wisdom or parting words for people who are going to be DMing for younger players?

Show the fun and rules light. That's true. That's true. You don't want to pull out the Pathfinder 2E 600-page core rulebook and say, all right, we're going to go through this entire thing. Let's talk about grappling. No. Make it easy on them. Absolutely.

Yeah. You know, again, we do not really change our adventures just for kids. Just, you know, sometimes maybe a little more rules like. That sounds good. Paul, I greatly appreciate you taking some time this afternoon. Oh, thank you. The honor's mine. This week, it was my great pleasure to speak with Paul Lazaro of adventuringportal.com.

He provided great tips for DMs running games for younger players. From my and Paul's experience, many kids can discover a lifelong passion with the right introduction to it. If you have a young player who's interested in attending a session with a professional dungeon master, please head over to adventuringportal.com, sign up for a session. My son had a blast in his sessions with Paul. I bet yours will too. If you like the podcast, please help me spread the word. Post about it on social media, tell your friends, rent a blimp, and scream through a bullhorn at your neighborhood to listen to the podcast. Okay, maybe not the last one, but I appreciate everyone who helps me spread the word. Next week, I'll keep it a little highbrow because I want to discuss the philosophy of die rolls,

when you should roll dice, and more importantly, when you shouldn't. Before I go, I want to thank this week's sponsor, Chairs. Like most people, I have an old favorite comfortable recliner. We go way back together. This has been episode 123 of the Taking20 podcast, the interview with Paul Lazaro of adventuringportal.com, all about DMing for younger players. My name is Jeremy Shelley, and I hope that your next game is your best game. The Taking20 podcast is a PublishingCube media production. Copyright 2022 copyright 2022 references to game system content

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