Taking 20 Podcast - Ep 208 - Dungeon Crawls Part 2

Episode Date: January 21, 2024

Dungeons are core to many of our game systems out there.  This week, in part 2 of the dungeon crawl series, I give DMs some tips for populating dungeons, using room descriptions and making them a bit more realistic.   #DMtips #dnd #Pathfinder #GMtips #Dungeons Resources: Jennell Jaquays GoFundMe:  https://www.gofundme.com/f/jennell-jaquays-has-a-long-road-back Redd Horrocks on Fiverr - https://www.fiverr.com/reddhorrocks  5e monster filter:  https://donjon.bin.sh/5e/monsters/ Pathfinder 2e creatures:  https://2e.aonprd.com/Creatures.aspx  Sly Flourish:  Running a Dungeon Crawl:  https://slyflourish.com/running_a_dungeon_crawl.html

This week on the Taking20 Podcast. Every time you open a door around a corner, the players don't know what's there. Is it a lost treasure? An abandoned cafeteria overrun by yellow mold? The characters don't know, and honestly, revealing that to the players is one of my favorite parts as a DM. Wherever you are and however you're listening, thank you for downloading the Taking20 Podcast, Episode 208, Part 2 about Dungeon Crawl Adventures. I want to thank this week's sponsor, Shirts. My shirts are usually full of wrinkles. I guess that means I have an iron deficiency. Last week, I had finalized and published my episode just before learning of the passing of Janelle Jaquais on the 10th.

I had spoken at length about her in episode 160 because she was a pioneer and a legend when it came to map design. She worked on tabletop role-playing games like Dungeons & Dragons and video games like Bard's Tale 3, Age of Empires, and Quake 2 and 3. Age of Empires, and Quake 2 and 3. For those of you so inclined, please send thoughts, prayers, and good vibes to her wife as she deals with the loss and the medical bills that were left behind. There is a GoFundMe that was set up when she was initially diagnosed, and the money there is being used to pay off the medical debt and now, unfortunately, funeral expenses. Please consider donating if you can. 2024 is starting to ramp up, and I'm lining up episodes for the new year. The break was nice, and my batteries were recharged.

That might become a regular thing, or I might sprinkle in some weeks off during the year. It's all to be determined, but we'll figure it out as we go. Speaking of which, do you have an episode idea for me? If so, please send it to me via direct message on Facebook or Instagram. Just search for Taking20Podcast. Or you can send it to me via email at feedback at Taking20Podcast.com. I want to make what you want to hear, so send those topic ideas to me. This week is a continuation of the topic we started last week. And if you haven't listened to episode 207 yet, I would strongly recommend it. In case you don't have the 20 minutes to spend, last week we

briefly talked about dungeons, giving them a theme, an objective, a reason to exist, and maybe even a history, and you have a pretty compelling location for a dungeon crawl. Now last week was the what and the where of a dungeon, and this week I want to focus on the how. If you do want to run a good dungeon crawl, there are a few characteristics of dungeon crawls that I would like to encourage you to include in those sessions or adventures. First thing I want to talk about, creatures. Most dungeons, okay, damn near all dungeons, will have at least a few and probably a lot of creatures for the characters to meet and more than likely kill. Now this easily could be a topic all its own and it may be in the future, but I probably won't cover it in depth as its own episode anytime soon unless someone

writes to me to say they really want it. Dungeons tend to have limited resources. I mean, it's really rare to go into a dungeon and find a fully stocked larder. Mid-dungeon crawl, resources may become limited and rests may be hard to come by. Now listen, there's nothing wrong with running a dungeon crawl where the players can return to town when they want to. One of Pathfinder 2e's recent adventure paths allows characters to return to town very often, even though they're in the middle of a dungeon. But what if the dungeon is remote or even cut off from the rest of the world like in a pocket dimension or something like that? Getting to town in those cases may be difficult or even impossible. Now speaking in broad terms, my recommendation would be to allow occasional returns to town say every other level or so.

Now you may be asking is that every other dungeon level or every other character level? And I've done it both ways, but every other character level makes for a tougher and more punishing dungeon. So if you want it to be harder, make those returns rare. But if you want to be easier on the players, allow them to return the dungeons when they clear, say, every dungeon level or every other one. But Jeremy, you may be asking, why would I allow my characters to return to town at all? Because town lets them restock consumables, sell the useless crap that they pick up, get items more beneficial to their characters, and maybe even retrain skills if they decide they want to change their character. Not allowing them to do so at all means the party could run painfully low on resources,

or get stuck with equipment and level choices that they aren't having fun with and can't really use. So I would let them return home a few times with the meta agreement at the table that the characters will return to the dungeon after a brief stay in town. Also, in a dungeon, long, short, and overnight rests may be hard to come by. We're going to get to how stocked I think dungeons should be in a dungeon, long, short, and overnight rests may be hard to come by. We're going to get to how stocked I think dungeons should be in a minute, but it may be hard for characters to find a quiet place to rest unless they've gone on a genocidal sweep of a section of the dungeon. Play this by ear at your table, but unless the dungeon is meant to be a character just grinder, give them occasional opportunities to rest,

even if that means you have to rearrange some monsters or change some things behind the screen. There's a term in sports, and I'm going to the bathroom by the way, called home field advantage. The home field is a place you're used to and have the enthusiastic support of the fans in attendance, especially while pooping. Nothing like that huge cheer when you're right in the middle of...

You know what? Never mind. If monsters stormed the character's home castle, the characters would have that home field advantage. They know the layout and where the traps and choke points are of their home base, if you will. And they may even have a really good idea already how to defend their home turf. In dungeons, however, the characters are on the monster's home turf, and it should feel like it. To bring this to a more highbrow area, they should feel like strangers in a strange land. The intelligent monsters are probably familiar with the layout, the tricks and traps, the quickest way to get from A and B, and where the choke points are where they would have the advantage in a fight.

Make the characters feel this disadvantage they may have and realize that, hey, they're not in Kansas anymore. Another thing I could have talked about last week, but just to include it this week, dungeons should have an atmosphere depending on what the occupants are. You can really paint a picture of atmosphere by how you describe rooms and corridors and areas of the dungeon. These descriptions will give the characters hints and indications as to what kinds of creatures they can expect as they delve deeper into the dungeon proper. Even small things like the characters notice with a perception check, the hallways appear to be swept clean of bones, dirt, and detritus, or there are drag marks of relatively fresh bloodstains along the wall gives the players hints to the types of creatures and maybe how occupied the area is at the moment. Let's work with an example. Listen to these two descriptions

and tell me what you think is different between them. One, a wave of stale air and mildew assaults your senses as you push open the heavy warped oaken door. The room behind is a study in neglect, a testament to the creeping tendrils of decay that have overtaken this once-proud space. Dust moats dance in the feeble shafts of sunlight filtering through cracks in the ceiling high above, their delicate dance illuminated by the flickering light from above. The walls are slick with grime, moss, and lichen, and the corners are filled with cobwebs spun by unseen arachnids, sticky strands cascading down to the threadbare tapestries hanging below. The scant furnishings that remain speak of a boisterous past long since faded. A splintered table, its surface scarred

with gouges and burns, sits overturned in one corner, its legs askew. And a half-dozen clay mugs, some bearing faded insignia, lie scattered around. In another corner, a lute leans against the wall, its strings slack and dusty. Now compare that to number two. A wave of air greets you as you open the heavy, carved oaken door. Sunlight filters through windows in the ceiling, bathing the room in a mosaic of light. Despite the age of the room's contents, everything appears well-maintained. Polished granite walls, devoid of grime, shine like obsidian mirrors. The air is crisp and invigorating, carrying the faint scent of beeswax and wood polish, a testament to meticulous care. A sturdy oaken table, its

surface blemished but obviously cared for, stands ready for feasts or strategy sessions, decorated with clay mugs with faded but recognizable guild insignia. Around it, sturdy chairs with intricately carved backs worn smooth by countless people sitting there offer a place of rest. And in the corner, a lute leans against a music stand, its strings gleaming with recent polish, promising melodies yet to be played. In the first, there probably aren't intelligent creatures around to maintain the contents, or the intelligent creatures have no concern for item maintenance. And in the second, someone or something is keeping the room clean and prepared. Why? And more importantly, who?

Use your descriptions of rooms and contents like this to serve as foreshadowing for the characters. That way, maybe their characters are experienced enough to recognize such hints and you can give them additional information. Furthermore, I think good dungeons have dynamic and wandering monsters. Not every creature should be sitting in their lair waiting for the characters to show up and kill them. Lair fights are fun, don't get me wrong, but it's also fun to round a corner and see a kobold scouting party, or bugbears coming to see what all the noise is about, or even a displacer beast that's been hunting the party and is surprised when they double back.

or even a displacer beast that's been hunting the party and is surprised when they double back. This results in encounters that aren't in ideal conditions for one or both of the sets of combatants. Suddenly, the wizard and cleric are on front line because something came up from behind and no one heard it in time, or the characters may have to spend precious actions shuffling around to fight in a more advantageous position, or they may just strategically retreat to a room to spread out properly. Wandering monsters make the world feel more alive, even if you're just picking or rolling an encounter from behind the screen from a book or list on the table.

Consider including those in your dungeons to sprinkle in a little bit of excitement. When it comes to dungeons, by the way, bigger isn't necessarily better. In my interview with John Fore, he talked about compelling dungeons that could be only five rooms in size. You can knock out one of these dungeons in a single session, and if you're running a dungeon that isn't part of the main quest or one that the characters just took an interest in out of the blue, you may want to roll out one of these small dungeons to get it completed and move on to the next more quote-unquote important area for the characters to explore. There's nothing wrong with having some quick and dirty dungeons to pull out when you need them in case there's something unexpected happens. But if you do have a sizable dungeon to run, it's easy to feel overwhelmed.

There are 50 rooms here and I need to put monsters and traps in all of them and I don't know what to do. Do I just throw zombies in four of them? No, no, you absolutely shouldn't. The good news is there's nothing wrong with leaving some or even most of the rooms in the dungeon completely empty except for quote-unquote window dressing. For these empty rooms have a brief description and maybe an object or two in there, like a bent copper coin or a lonely rusted dagger, something like that. These empty rooms, by the way, can be used to tell a story, whether it's a tragedy that befell others or a hint at something to come. For example, the room contains the remains of knives and other instruments that were used in a less genteel time by less moral

people to extract information through infliction of pain. A section of stone appears to be discolored as if by some liquid that pooled there for an extended period of time. Just like that, you've hinted that this was a torture chamber in the dungeon's previous life. Want to change it and make it a hint of what's to come? Add this line. Although the instruments in the room are rusted, they are still laid out in a meticulous fashion as if they're still in use today. That could hint at a pain demon or some other monster that uses these torture instruments in battle or for its own corrupt amusement. Let's move to a less gruesome example. This room appears to have been abandoned in a

hurry. Warm amber hues from hanging lanterns and strategically placed lamps cast long shadows, creating an intimate atmosphere. Plush couches and pillows arranged in clusters invite you to lounge and sink in. Richly colored fabrics like jewel-toned velvet and embroidered silk add a touch of opulence to the room. At the center of the room is a large hookah with four smoking pipes leading to the piles of brightly colored pillows and couches. Gentle wisps of smoke waft upwards from various pipes and bowls and hoses with just a hint of mint and rose in the air. With that description, you have a hookah bar that was recently abandoned because of... what? Monster incursion? Police raid? Some necromantic ingredient in the tobacco that killed the smokers and caused them to rise as undead? Need the dungeon to be

older? Then the hookah has long since gone cold and the pillows and couches are threadbare and left near worthless by the ravages of time and weather? Why hasn't it been reclaimed or thoroughly looted previously? That's a question you better have ready in case the characters start digging to figure that out. It's a good idea to have a variety of creatures in your dungeon if it makes sense. For example, a long sealed crypt could obviously have undead in it, but vermin could have made its way in through the various cracks and holes that appear due to natural settling of the dungeon and movement of the earth around it.

Goblins could have settled in the lower level while automatons or golems roam the top floor. The goblins know that the upper floor is off-limits because of the dangerous automatons that roam the area, and the automatons may not be able to open the sealed stairwell from their side. Generally, I avoid a situation where a single hallway contains, say, room 8 has a group of goblins, and room 9 has a pair of giant centipedes, room 10 has four drow warriors, and room 11 has 12 skeletons. Wouldn't two or more of these be trying to kill each other? Even if the drow are goblins or scouts and hiding in their room, waiting for their chance to escape, how do you explain the other groups? You probably shouldn't have every room with undead

have consecrated doors and arches because that means they can't escape. That seems to make no sense. You can always hand wave monster variety, discard verisimilitude, and say the monsters are there because they're there. Original D&D and Advanced D&D did a lot of this. There's a 20-foot gargantuan dragon in a room with a single 5-foot door and no other way out. How the hell did it get in there? What does it eat? Who cares? It's there. Time to kill it. Your players may not have any desire to worry about the realism in their RPG game,

but for groups that do think about these things, consider it as you're creating and populating your dungeon. But how can you add variety while maintaining a touch of realism? Dungeons can have multiple groups or factions living in it, separated by a divider or a locked door or a DMZ or no man's land. The dungeon has a huge crack running diagonally through it from an earthquake that happened a long time ago. On one side are a group of Darrow or Dark Dwarves who have tunnels leading deep underground to their city of Karamirn 20 miles away. to their city of Karamirn, 20 miles away. They have difficulty crossing the chasm created by the earthquake because there's a group of lizard folk who have taken up residence on the other side.

And that other side contains the actual entrance to the underground structure. Each faction has set up defenses on their side of the chasm and repel any attempt to cross. Both sides are harassed by, oh, let's say dark mantles that occasionally fly in from hidden nesting grounds. And just like that, you have two intelligent factions and at least one type of monster that could be encountered when the PCs enter the dungeon. If you're struggling to find monsters, by the way, for 5e or Pathfinder 2e, you can always open the various monster manuals and bestiaries and start combing through until you find a monster that appeals to you.

If you're looking for monsters in a particular environment like forest, dungeon, etc., then your ease of doing so may be related to the game system that you're using. In the resources of the episode, I've included a link to a tool created by Donjon, that's D-O-N-J-O-N, that can filter 5e monsters by native environment. It is handy if you need creatures in a pinch that would make sense in underground or abandoned building or in a swamp or wherever the adventure is taking place. Paizo, for good or ill, has done away with a lot of the location-based attributes of creatures, and that makes them not as easy to find. In the resources, I put a link to the entire creature

database published on Archives of Nethis. You can do some searching there, but you may just have to pick a creature that could make sense and use that. It's a cave troll, or a forest tool, or a desert wisp, and make minor adjustments to the creature if needed. But you may not have to make any changes at all. Just drop them where you need them. Use these tools to add a little variety to the types of creatures that you throw at your party. After all, variety is the spice of life, and the spice must flow.

Many dungeons, at least most of them that I've played and designed, tend to ramp up difficulty the deeper you go into the dungeon. Is this necessarily realistic? Not really, not necessarily, but it stands to reason that if this is a Minotaur maze or a Cobalt Warren or Merfolk City, they would put their strongest guards around their most valuable treasure, be that gems, a magic item, a holy relic or location, or just their non-combatants and young. I would think that door duty for the exterior of the location would be reserved for fighters that are somewhat capable, but are either weaker than those protecting the valuables, or they're individuals who couldn't be trusted around them. Give the door duty group some ability to alert the occupants, and likely some ability to do damage at range,

and that's a good opening encounter for any dungeon. But as the party goes deeper, they're likely to find lieutenants and elite troops and those that are more capable. If the door duty alarm is sounded, they're likely to be armed, armored, and ready to repel the invaders. But if not, you may be able to catch them by surprise, getting that squad commander and her troops during dinner or the leader while they're taking a constitutional on the toilet. All of this, of course, culminates in a boss fight with support creatures and possibly minions. By the way, minions like the things I talked about in episode 45, not the annoying little yellow shits that were funny at first, but

now we're in way, way too many movies. Another thing that makes dungeon crawls fun is the feeling of discovery every time you open a door around a corner. The players don't know what's there. Is it a lost treasure? An abandoned cafeteria overrun by yellow mold? A ramp trap that falls down when too much weight's on it and the metal barbs stick up from holes in the floor, turning it into a sliding cheese grater? The characters don't know, and honestly, revealing that to the players is one of my favorite parts as a DM. It's like watching someone open a present that you know what it contains.

Is it that console game they've been wanting, or is it a confetti cannon? You know, and they're about to find out. I get the same feeling as playing games like Civ and RPG computer games where you have this area that's hidden or obscured until you go there. where you have this area that's hidden or obscured until you go there. I've always loved the feeling of the slow revealing of locations and items, and a good dungeon crawl can delight players who think like I do and enjoy the revelation of the unknown. Now, I've saved the hard stuff for the end, and don't do that when you're drinking, though.

Liquor before beer never f***ed. I've been told to get back on topic, so kids, be sure to ask your parents about drinking. I have been told not to encourage kids to drink alcohol. Don't drink alcohol, kids. This message is brought to you by the Don't Do Stupid Crap Foundation, who remind you that drinking too young is a really, really bad idea. You should let that scotch age at least 12 years before you ever f***. I've just been threatened that someone will toss me into a dungeon with no weapons or food or water. All I can say is I would be a tasty

morsel for something living in there, so I'm going to move on. Now the rest of these tips are tougher to execute well, and if you are new to the hobby of dungeon design, you may want to save these until you've really mastered the other tips I've talked about. Dungeons work out better when you give the PCs incentives to keep exploring. As I discussed last week, the reason may be as simple as there's treasure here or the dungeon's there and that's all the incentive you need to keep the PCs interested in the dungeon. There's a quote by Gary Gygax that dismisses the need for incentives and says you should tell the players that the dungeon's there

and they want to go explore it, period, end. I'm not going to say that's wrong. Your group may operate that way, no problems. However, you may want to consider giving your PCs a reason to be there. Last week, I talked about using MacGuffins as reasons to explore a dungeon. Re-listen to episode 207 if you want more detail on that method. There's nothing wrong, by the way, with using hints of treasure or the dungeon being a source of some sort of threat. That's always a safe place to start, but it's not your only option. Someone may pay the players to map a dungeon

for some group's or leader's future use. They may want to make sure that the military fort in the Greygrid Mountains is usable, so they send the PCs out to clear it out. Boom! There's your incentive to explore. Another good one to use, sparingly though, is for the PCs to be dropped in the middle of the dungeon by a magic portal, an earthquake, a teleport spell gone awry, or whatever other reason you can cook up to drop them in the dead middle of a dungeon. The incentive? Explore

and find your way out so you can go home. Another thing I think that is good for dungeons is that I think they're better with a boss fight. A good boss fight. Some creature or leader at the end that is bigger and tougher than rank and file creatures that exist in the other parts of the dungeon. Maybe worshippers or tribe members or weaker creatures that the boss could easily beat up. When I'm designing a dungeon from scratch, by the way, I usually plan this first. The PCs are entering the Twilight Caverns to get the golden breastplate of Daman Rashid. Great! Who or what will be wearing it at the end?

The Goblin King? The Khan Sisseth of the Serpent Folk? The Drow General? Or will it be in a room protected by a tough monster like Construct Guards or an Apex Predator like a Beholder who just enjoys the shiny look of the breastplate? Or maybe even the Horde of a Dragon? Design a tough monster that will be the heart or the back end of the dungeon. Give it an interesting environment to be in. It's protected by minions if that makes sense. Maybe you can throw levers to set off traps, or there are periodic eruptions of lava, but the fire elemental isn't just immune to it, it loves it. If I've piqued your interest and you're thinking about running a dungeon crawl in the near future, I want to point you to an article on D&D Beyond that I'll link in the

resources. It's called 10 Tips for Running Your First Dungeon Crawl, and it has great information for dungeon crawls regardless of the game system you're using. Give that a read as you're preparing to subject your PCs to the horrors of a deep cavern, or forgotten tomb, or decrepit building that has become the lair of a sea hag. Make your dungeon dynamic. Don't be afraid to leave some empty rooms in the design. Give PCs incentives to explore, slowly ramp up the difficulty with a variety of creatures culminating in a boss fight,

and I'd be willing to bet that you and your players would have fun doing that dungeon. Do you have a topic idea for me? Send it to me via post, comment, direct message on social media, or email, and I'll do my best to get it slotted into a future episode. Tune in next week when I'm going to talk about something that will be music to the ears of some of my hard-working DMs and GMs out there. Tips for giving your game master the night off. Before I go though, I want to thank this week's sponsor, Shirts. Did you know there's a special type of shirt that's made just for farmers? I bet you're thinking I'm talking about overalls. Nope, they're crop tops.

This has been episode 208, part 2 of Dungeon Crawls. My name is Jeremy Shelley, and I hope that your next game is your best game. The Taking 20 Podcast is a Publishing Cube Media Production. Copyright 2024. References to game system content are copyrighted to their respective publishers.