Taking 20 Podcast - Ep 69 - Monster Series - Succubus and Incubus

Episode Date: April 18, 2021

Succubi and their lesser known male cousins, the incubi:  devious, corrupting masters of temptation with pleasures of the flesh and mind.  How can a DM use these in a campaign?  How do they fight?  What would my succubus look like?  Tune in and find out!

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for tuning in to episode 69 of the Taking 20 podcast. This week, continuing the monster series all about Succubi and Incubi. This week's sponsor, Growing Up. Screw that. I'd rather make a podcast episode that devolves into 15 minutes of dick jokes. We still have the contest for a $50 Amazon gift card. To enter, please send an email to contest at taking20podcast.com. That's taking20podcast.com. It doesn't sign you up for a newsletter. I won't sell your contact information.

I won't beg you for money. I just want to thank you for helping me make it to one year of this podcast. Also, I wouldn't get upset if you gave us a like, subscribe, and a rating wherever you find us. I will make every attempt to take this topic from an academic frame of reference, but given the highly sexualized nature of these creatures, invariably we will talk about some sexual topics, but I'll do my best not to make them graphic. Also, to show you how mature I am, yes, I saved this topic for episode 69. Inside my brain, I'm an 11-year-old boy. Anyway, on to the boob jokes. To start off, a quick definition of the succubus from 5th edition. A succubus is a lascivious, dark-winged fiend that is found in service to devils, demons, nighthags, rakshasas, and yugoloths. They are used to tempt mortals to perform evil acts.

They can also be advisors and consorts to other creatures. In 5th edition, the succubus is the female form of the creature, while the incubus is the male form of the same creature, because they can flip-flop at will. I bet that's pretty handy at clubs when the line to the women's room stretches down the hall, but the men's room is pretty empty. You could just flip genders and go in the other restroom. The different versions of Dungeons & Dragons have classified them as demons in 3rd edition, Devils in 4th edition, and finally just Fiends in 5th edition. So in 5e, they can be found among Demons, Devils, and Yggdrasil. Pathfinder,

on the other hand, Succubi and Incubi are different creatures. The Succubus is still female, while the Incubus is still male, but they are separate from one another. Each can appear as either or no gender. An incubus is a CR6 creature while a succubus is a CR7. Incubus has charm person while succubus has the stronger charm monster. Succubi can ethereal jaunt while incubi can't, and they are explicitly defined as demons in both Pathfinder 1st edition and 2nd edition. The term succubus is derived from Middle Age Latin. It's derived from the

word succuba, which means lover or paramour, and from the word succubare, which means to lie beneath. So the term succubus is what we call a double entendre. No, wait. A double entendre is when there's one way of interpreting a phrase as being innocent and another as being dirty. Like a double entendre would be, My wife asked for a double entendre, so I gave it to her. The term succubus derives from two Latin terms about sex. So it's just an entendre, not a double entendre. Succubi also appear in apocryphal Christian text, the Jewish Kabbalah. There's

also similar creatures defined in Buddhist scripture and Arabian mythology. They were blamed for sexual or erotic dreams, and their existence is completely understandable. Sexual temptation is one of the strongest we humans have to deal with, whether that's temptation to have sex outside your relationship or to have sex outside the parameters defined by your deity. Representing these as beings of temptation and not as nebulous concepts was a way for early religious teachings to talk about sexual temptation in a definitive form. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Succubi and incubi are universally depicted as beautiful. But Jeremy, beauty is subjective. That is correct. That's why in RPGs and in mythology,

they can read your mind and appear as the most beautiful creature in the world to you. Whether that's Scarlett Johansson in a lovely evening gown, looking up from her drink and giving you a slight crooked smile, or Henry Cavill doing push-ups shirtless in your backyard. Before I move on from that example, I want to say two things. One, in your backyard isn't a move on from that example, I want to say two things. One, in your backyard isn't a euphemism for anything. And two, Henry Cavill just isn't fair to the rest of us. He busts the curve for everyone. He's good looking, builds his own gaming PCs, plays video games,

and he's into Dungeons and Dragons. I'm surprised my wife hasn't hit me in the face with her wedding ring and gone to take a crack at him. Say what? Evidently he's married, so she may just be biding her time. Find out if he's got a sister! Succubi first appeared in 1976 in a gaming supplement for the original Dungeons & Dragons called Eldritch Wizardry. For both 5th edition and Pathfinder, brute force fights aren't a succubus' strong suit. Their physical attacks are fairly weak for their level, six and four and a half hit points of damage respectively while this isn't necessarily an indication of physical might they are listed in various places

as being about six feet tall and weighing only 125 pounds in their native shape they have a default strength of eight and fifth edition and 13 Pathfinder, so they're not all that strong. But where they shine is their ability to mess with your mind. They have the ability to magically charm a target for one or more days. And while we're at it, let's talk about charm. Charms in 5th edition are Charm Person, Charm Monster, or the like in Pathfinder. They aren't mind control. You can't charm the prison guard

into having sex with you. That's not how it works. Read the spell description. I've heard players say to the DM about an NPC and even about another player, they have to sleep with me. I cast charm person on them. No, they don't. For multiple reasons. One, never, ever, ever take away another player's agency as a DM. And two, I have quite a few friends that I haven't slept with, and I'll bet you do too. So just because they're friendly doesn't mean they want to bump uglies with you. What charm spells do is they fool you into thinking they're a trusted friend and ally. That friend you can confide your secrets in. That buddy you went to school with.

That confidant to whom you bear your soul. So DMs and players please read the charm descriptions carefully and make sure you understand what that spell can and cannot do. You may not be able to charm the prison guard into having sex with you, but hey you know me I'm not supposed to be locked up like this. Can't you just let me out long enough to stretch my legs? I mean I won't even leave the room you can watch me the whole time. That's a potentially reasonable request to someone under your charm spell. Not, let's make the beast with two backs.

Sorry, I got sidetracked. Back to sex demons. Succubi and incubi have the ability to read your thoughts. Detect thoughts is the spell in Pathfinder and telepathic bond in 5th edition. In 5th edition, the difference is in 5th edition, the incubus or succubus needs to charm you first. Then they can use the telepathic bond. In Pathfinder, you just have to fail a will save. They both have the ability to change their shape at will.

Combined with the ability to read your thoughts, they can appear as the most beautiful creature in the world to you. Steve Buscemi covered in chocolate pudding? Yep, they'll look like that for you with no judgment. The kiss from a succubus or incubus is potentially deadly. In 5th edition, they have the ability called Draining Kiss. You make a constitution save or you take 32 psychic damage, and also it reduces your maximum number of hit points by the same amount. 32 hit points is a lot. It reduces your maximum number of hit points by the same amount. 32 hit points is a lot. In Pathfinder, their kiss is an energy drain ability that drains one level and serves as a suggestion spell.

And I'll bet you know what the suggestion's going to be. It's inevitably going to be to accept another act of passion, kiss, or more. Let's go with heavy petting in a car with steamed up windows, which inevitably results in another negative level and another suggestion. Lather, rinse, repeat until you have no levels left or you die of dehydration. Either way, you're dead. And that succubus just corrupted another soul. They will try non-spell means of temptation before they ever use their magic. Why waste the spell when looking like Ryan Reynolds emerging from a sauna may be enough of a temptation?

One thing that's consistent about them is that their goal is to own your soul. In 5th edition, they try to get you to commit betrayal acts of varying description and difficulty. In Pathfinder, they're demons who collect souls for their own use or trade in the abyss, for example. At any rate, both 5th edition and Pathfinder, they're trying to make you turn towards evil. They are malicious tempters and corruptors. They most commonly will use physical pleasure as a weapon, but they don't have to. They could appear like your character's spouse, or that brother who was captured but now he's been released, I guess, because he's standing right here in the doorway. Or your long-lost father returning home from the war. They open their arms for an embrace and, well, we call that a grapple, kids.

All they have to do is hold you, plant lips, and it's goodnight, paladin, hello another soul for trade. Succubi and incubi can have children. In both game systems, the description explicitly says they can have kids. And that's one way little tieflings are made. Oh, what a beautiful little baby with a cute little button nose and a slight reddish tinge to his skin. Does he have rosacea and are those horns? Wait, cloven feet? Honey, did you get with Mr. Beelzebub again? Succubi are defined as subtle, methodical manipulators of their targets. Not even other

demons are immune to their charms. Wars between demon princes have been fought because of them, whereas incubi are more, quote, forthright and forceful. I read that as a little rapey. I tend to avoid explicit descriptions of rape in my campaigns, so I'd scale that back to make them more suggestive, lewd, and upfront about what they want. I mean, they're good looking, so it's hard to say no. They'll win a charm spell and it turns into, oh my gosh, I met this guy and he just like gets me, you know? It's like we have this

connection from the moment our eyes met. It's like you see in the movies. He was outside my window in the rain and he was so warm from our connection that the rain was making little puffs of steam come off his shoulders and cheeks as it hit him. I remember his eyes were so beautiful, almost entrancing, looking at me through the window. Isn't your bedroom on the second floor? Well, yes, but I don't see what that has to- Wait a minute. So how do you use succubi and incubi in your campaign? Well, number one, they're manipulative. The very definition of I'm a lover, not a fighter. They will set up schemes that keep them in power, even in the mortal realm,

just to indulge their rapacious desires. They are born from the most lustful souls and delight in pleasures of the flesh. Look, hey, just because your job's tempting people with sex doesn't mean you can't enjoy it once in a while. They are cunning combatants. Why get into a fistfight when that minotaur who loves you will do it for you? Why risk bodily harm when that lieutenant who loves you will bring his troops to bear against your enemies? Why fight when a subtle kiss from that beautiful elf maiden will reduce them to jelly in your arms? Almost literally.

Two, they love tempting tempting powerful people. Leaders, priests, kings. Besides the prestige of tempting powerful people and being in a position of power themselves, those people can help lead others astray. Three, they can jump to the ethereal plane at will and they will use that as an escape plan if all else fails. They're not going to stand and fight when the cost of death for demons and devils is so high. In Pathfinder, for example, if they're not summoned creatures, then when they're reduced to zero hit points, they die for good. Their souls and bodies are the same thing. There's no killing a demon and off the soul goes to be judged.

The soul is the body, so death of the body means death of the soul. Depending on your campaign world, though, their essence may be reabsorbed onto their home plane of existence, or they may be reborn as larvae or lemures or some other low-level outsider. At least in Pathfinder, though, they are not irredeemable. They are not lost forever. The succubus queen Nocticula, the first succubus in the abyss, she overcame her evil nature, slayed a bunch of demon lords, and ascended to become full,

chaotic, neutral goddess of artists, midnight, and exiles. It's exceedingly rare, but not unheard of, for succubi, and by extension incubi, to leave their evil behind. Imagine a campaign where a succubus or incubus is looking for a path away from evil and thinks the PCs can help. It has powerful enemies who have a vested interest in making sure that doesn't happen, or it has pissed off powerful enemies, archfiends, demon lords, angels, other outsiders who want to see it suffer for its crimes. The PCs have to get it someplace or help it accomplish certain tasks, gain forgiveness from those it has wronged, or some other set of tasks to complete its path to redemption. You could make

it a very serious campaign with a long and rocky road out of hell dealing with the consequences of past actions. Or you could make it funny, making the succubus struggle to leave her temptation past behind her. She slips into old habits, tempting the PCs, the head cleric, the blacksmith, a random NPC on a street corner, one of the PC's moms, etc. Succubi are very flexible, not just in that way, but also in how you can use them in an adventure. Succubi and incubi can serve as powerful lieutenants in mid-level campaigns or even as big bads for low-level campaigns. As big bads, they can be manipulating the world around the PCs without the PCs ever knowing it. So the succubus slowly and subtly pulls the NPCs towards evil choices, deftly and delicately pulling strings to make it harder for the PCs to accomplish their goals. As the PCs get

closer to discovering what's behind it all, it can use the resources of everyone it has wrapped around its finger. Suddenly the PCs are wanted criminals. They can't shop at a powerful merchant shop, or the head of the criminal underworld puts a bounty on their heads, or all three at the same time. Getting close to a succubus may be easy, but figuring out who they actually are and extricating yourself will be exceptionally difficult. The succubus may even pose as someone who's helping the PCs to learn more about how

close they are getting and methods that they're using, so the succubus can be prepared to counter when needed. As lieutenants instead of big bads, the big bad can use the succubus in a similar manner as if the succubus was the big bad, throwing the PCs off their scent, turning allies against the PCs, securing additional resources to protect themselves from being found out. But on top of everything else, the succubus or incubus can potentially be subtly manipulating the big bad as well. So each one, the incubus and the big bad, thinks they're using the other one.

Could make for a great dramatic moment where the lieutenant turns on the big bad at a crucial time, backstabbing the big bad and the PCs to become the new big bad. In summary, succubi and incubi thrive on deception and misdirection. They're not keen to fight toe-to-toe and would rather manipulate others to fight for them. They excel at making both mortals and extraplanar creatures fall for them, whether that takes a change of shape, a charm spell, whispering into their dreams, or taking out the right romantic rival at the right time. Now if you'll excuse me, Salma Hayek is floating outside my window and I'm going to invite her in for a drink. Please like, subscribe, rate, and leave a comment. I'd love to hear feedback from

you. If all else fails, send it to feedback at taking20podcast.com. This week's sponsor was Growing Up, the surest way to discover more problems than you ever knew existed. This has been Taking 20, Episode 69, the monster series all about Succubi and Incubi. My name is Jeremy Shelley, and I hope that your next game is your best game.