Taking 20 Podcast - Ep 73 - Oops the PCs Killed the Big Bad

Episode Date: May 16, 2021

You were looking forward to an antagonist for the PCs that would last a few months.  You had a plan to integrate him into two of the PCs' backstories and for a climactic battle on a volcanic rock.  But the PCs were smart and found a way to kill your big bad earlier than you wanted.  In this episode Jeremy discusses what you should do next and some strategies to keep it from happening in the future.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for tuning in to episode 73 of the Taking 20 podcast. This week called Oops! The PCs Killed the Big Bad. This week's sponsor is Miss Meow's Kitty Theater. Come see our all-Siamese cat version of Shakespeare, or the Burmese version of Beauty and the Beast. And before you ask, know they won't perform the musical Cats for you. If you have a topic suggestion or feedback, please leave a comment or contact me at feedback at taking20podcast.com. Finally, please give us a review on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you happen to find us. Each review helps the podcast grow and reach more people who

might enjoy it or benefit from it. At the start of your campaign, the big bad had plans. They wanted to secure a better life for their children. Sure, they were going to destroy Waterdeep to make that happen, but it'd be worth it to see little Susie and Jamel grow up in a better world. Then the PCs had to come along and ruin everything. Now, at the end, as the big bad's lifeblood leaks out of a dozen wounds, their thoughts return to their family, their spouse, and children. What will become of them? And the light fades from their eyes. The DM had plans as well.

But her thoughts aren't lingering on family. She's thinking, the big bad I was planning on having around through the entire adventure lies dead in a pool of her own viscera. What am I going to do now? Does the campaign end here? Should I fake a medical emergency to stall for time? If you DM long enough, this will happen to you. You introduce a villain to the PCs so they'll learn who the big bad is, and whether through good tactics on the PCs' part, bad choices on your part, or the luck of the dice. The big bad dies to the PCs long before you'd planned. Now your adventure is minus one big bad and you're going

to have to come up with something else. What are your options? How do you keep the adventure going? Good news. This has happened many, many times before to many, many different DMs. The problem is solved with a little creative thinking between sessions. As a reminder, what you plan and what is written in an adventure is not set in stone. Anything and everything can be changed with a little creativity. Monster stats, dungeon contents, adventure layout, and yes, who or what the big bad is in your campaign. It's also important that you congratulate the PCs on killing an important antagonist. It benefits no one for you to get upset that the PCs succeeded in killing your big bad. You're on the PC's side and should be rooting for them, no matter how you make it sound.

One of my current GMs makes a huge showing about how disappointed he is that he didn't kill us during this gaming session, and that he looks forward to trying harder to kill us next time. He means none of it, and he's a big softie. That doesn't mean he gives us softball encounters, though. There was one a few sessions ago in a radiation field fighting a creature that ate radioactive material and healed from it. That was a nasty fight. In order to keep it from healing, we had to put ourselves between the creature and the material, but being too close to it means that we were taking radiation damage the entire time we were there. It was a careful balancing act, but in the end we killed the beast and double-timed it back to the medic to get healed of our radiation poisoning. Was he adjusting the encounter behind the screen to give us a better

chance to win? Probably. But I'd never ask him if he did, and he'd probably never admit that he did. At no point with any good DM should the players feel like it's us against the DM. The DM plays the antagonists, but isn't antagonistic towards the players. So if the PCs kill your big bad prematurely, or for that matter, find a creative solution to a difficult puzzle or a shortcut through a difficult dungeon or encounter, that's a good thing. Make sure you praise them for it. But back to the topic at hand. Should the PCs mercilessly murder your big bad, there are six possible things that you can do from here.

One, make the previous big bad a lieutenant to a different big bad creature. This is my go-to, and it works almost all the time. The big bad that's actually controlling everything works through his or her lieutenants. What looked like a big bad has a boss who's the real big bad. Think Moriarty and Sherlock Holmes. Whether you're talking about the Benedict Cumberbatch BBC show or the Robert Downey Jr. movies will work. Doesn't matter. But the big bad in those stories turns out to be working for Moriarty,

or Moriarty was using the apparent big bad to accomplish his own purposes. If you choose to go this route, you'll need to make it obvious that there's a bigger big bad fish in the pond. There could be a note on the body, an email found on the big bad's computer, documents in a desk, one of the henchmen willing to talk to spare his life, a phone call from the real big bad to the apparent big bad when the PCs have her phone, some way of getting the critical information to the players that there's a bigger player on the field. Drop some breadcrumbs that eventually will lead the characters towards the next adventure. 2. Make the real big bad an entire organization instead of one person.

The PCs took out the immediate threat, but there's an entire network of baddies connected to accomplish some purpose, like Hydra from the Marvel Universe, Spectre from the Bond films. You'll need to establish the organizational structure, which may take some time on your part. The organization could have a single person directing the evil schemes, which is just like the first example above.

Or it could be a committee, corporation, cabal, corps. Wait, I seem to be stuck on C words. Let me try this again. It could be a crew, shit. A sisterhood, a gang, a political party, a brigade, a religious group. There we go. A council, a clan. You know what? I'm stopping because my brain seems to be locked on one letter and I apologize for that. This collection of cloistered or casually connected cocksure criminals conspire to commit crimes and cause chaos to confuse and confound the characters. What is wrong with me? Did I get a concussion? Design the organization and the overall purpose for its existence. Organizational goals, though, tend to be bigger than the goals of a single person.

So think broader terms, like take over the government of a country or take over the world. It could simply be to make the members of the organization rich, but could be as complicated as market manipulation, controlling the distribution and sale of illegal substances, nationwide or worldwide smuggling, or any other reason that would make sense for a crime organization. You have to think, how are the PCs interfering with the operations of this organization, and what would the organization do to rid themselves of the PC nuisance? Early on, maybe they're encountering some mid-level lieutenants who are the apparent big bads, and they're trying to make a name for themselves by being the ones who take care of the problem for the controlling committee. As the PCs succeed in

destroying these early mini-bosses, more powerful members of the organization will become involved, bringing more powerful and varied resources to bear against the PCs. Lather, rinse, repeat until the PCs are in the boardroom of the committee arresting or killing the controlling members. Option three, bring the big bad back because they were reincarnated. In most game systems, reincarnation becomes trivial once you reach a certain level or certain amount of wealth. If your big bad happens to be wealthy or rich or have these resources available to him, why wouldn't he have contingency plans in place to bring him back in the event of his untimely death? He could be brought back by minions who have explicit instructions for the magic and technology that they can use to bring the big bad back.

He could be brought back by another organization who want to collect the big bad's secrets or use the big bad's expertise to further their own ends. While he wasn't the big bad, think Shepard from Mass Effect 2. Cerberus brought him back because the elusive man believed that Shepard was the only being in the galaxy capable of stopping the Reaper invasion. Which, by the way, if you haven't played the Mass Effect trilogy, the remastered version just got released on Steam not too long ago. I cannot recommend this trilogy enough. I wish I could wipe the trilogy out of my brain and replay that game all over again with no memory as to what happens. Anyway, Big Bad could bring himself back thanks to a contingency spell or similar spell or technology.

In both Dungeons & Dragons and Pathfinder, contingency is a spell that sets a certain set of criteria to cause another spell to automatically be cast. When you cast Contingency, you set the criteria and cast the spell that will quote-unquote go off when the criteria is met. A common spell, depending on your game system, could be Resurrection, which brings you back from the dead. While you can have multiple contingency spells active, there needs to be specific triggers to set them off, and each one is a one-time use. So you can't keep resurrecting yourself infinitely on one casting of contingency. Rather than a spell, you could make this a magical artifact or some sort of technological solution to bring your big bad back. Fourth choice. The PCs only killed a

clone, a twin, or an illusion of the big bad. I will admit this is the most overdone storyline in the history of United States daytime soap operas. I didn't cheat on you. That was my evil twin or that was my clone. That being said, it's still an effective way to keep your big bad around. If you have access to cloning technology, why wouldn't you create a clone to go do your dirty work for you while you see to other parts of your empire? The clone dying can be your, quote, canary in the coal mine for your big bad

to let them know that the threat is serious and requires the real big bad's attention. Best practice here, by the way, is to make the clone slightly weaker than the original. Two reasons. One, so the clones know who the original is, and two, so the real Big Bad can be a challenge for these higher level PCs when they finally confront the real Big Bad. If it's a twin, the loss of such a close sibling causes the remaining twin to rage out, level up, absorb its life force, become stronger in some way,

make it more of a challenge. Finally, if it's an illusion, the fake big bad can fade out laughing at the PCs, telling them that he'll see them again soon. Five, the big bad can come back as an intelligent undead or a lich. Lich would be tough considering the difficulty of becoming a lich to begin with. But you killed Darleth the Destructor, but now it's Mummy Lord Darleth come to enact her revenge. An interesting alternative as far as the story goes is you could make them weaker when they come back. So the big bad has a tragic end. The PCs killed the strong Big Bad, but a horrifying, scarred, malformed, undead version of the Big Bad collapses out of the cloning tank, spitting vitriol at the PCs like it's still extremely powerful when it simply isn't anymore, and it's just a sad scene. Do the PCs kill this helpless mass of flesh, which is arguably an evil act? Does the baddie survive and change form or function or purpose?

Bringing them back as undead could diversify the pool of minions for the baddie as well, adding legions of undead under their control. Either way, consider the undead angle to keep a big bad around for a little while longer. Option 6. Pivot the adventure to something new. Move on past the big bad you had planned, make this a shorter storyline than you intended, and pivot the game to a different purpose or goal or area of the world. This keeps the game fresh by not bringing the same big bad over and over and over again. Speaking of which, in general, do not overdo bringing back the big bad.

If you keep bringing back the same big bad over and over again, the players will begin to lose interest. What's the point of killing Dr. Kronos since he'll just be back again? Bring him back once or twice and then consider a different big bad or even a completely different direction for your campaign. Unless coming back from the dead is his shtick. different direction for your campaign, unless coming back from the dead is his shtick. Then the campaign becomes all about having the PCs come up with a way to take the big bad out without killing him. Now here comes the bonus piece of advice that will keep you out of this whole mess. Seven, keep the PCs from killing your big bad prematurely in the first place. Sounds easy, right? It's just like I once heard skiing described as, go that way

downhill really fast, and if something gets in your way, turn. Name that movie. You're not going to win anything for it, by the way. I just want to see where my older listeners are at. So how do you keep your big bad from dying? Big bads that are intelligent will prepare like intelligent opponents. They're not going to rush into melee unless that's their thing. You don't see the Green Goblin, the Monarch from Venture Brothers, Lex Luthor or Howard Saint from Punisher getting into too many fistfights. Smart big bads let their minions and lieutenants risk bodily harm while they stay safely far away from the marauding band of characters

trying to bring down their empire. They will take precautions not to put themselves at risk. If they do have to meet with the PCs, they'll do so through emissaries, remotely using magic or technology, in public places where they have the advantage, such as other people in the restaurant work for the big bad and will protect her if a fight breaks out, or in an area where the PCs can't cause a ruckus without angering their bosses,

turning public sentiment against them, etc. Big bad layers will be set up to give them every advantage, whether that's quick escape routes or areas where their powers can be maximized while the PCs are weakened. When I was in college, back when oil was called dinosaurs, a good friend of mine ran one of my favorite campaigns I've ever been in. ran one of my favorite campaigns I've ever been in. It was a Battletech campaign where the six of us were all independent bandit lords on the periphery, but close enough to jump into civilized space, conduct raids for resources, and then return to the periphery and hide. We could also attack each other, since all six of us were trying to control the same small region of space. He met with each of us one-on-one so we could decide what we would do this turn, which was six months long, if I remember correctly. Here's why it's important.

He let us pick and design our home worlds. If you've never played Battletech before, you're in giant walking robots between 25 and 100 tons in size, and they're called mechs. They bristle with weapons and defense technologies. You were constantly balancing your mech's armor weight, which helped you survive the fight, weapons, which help you kill the other guys, and heat generated by your weapons, engine, and jump jets. My home world was a hellishly hot trap for

invaders, and I designed all of my mechs with fewer weapons than optimal, but loaded up on heat sinks to keep them cool. The first two times my friends tried to invade my home world, their mechs overheated not long after their legs touched the ground and the opening weapon exchange happened. My frosty mechs would cruise up to the overheated shutdown mechs and take them out before they could cool back down and boot back up. I designed my homeworld to take advantage of my mech's efficient cooling systems. That campaign lasted two years, and while I didn't win it, it was a ton of fun. I was too defensive, by the way, and I didn't attack my fellow players enough or intersphere enough, and I didn't get enough resources to survive long term. But the point is that your baddies should give themselves every advantage they can. Do they have dark vision where

most of the PCs don't? Then why would they light up their home base like a Broadway stage? They'll have snipers on the PCs or their families to ensure the PCs behave during a meeting. They'll poison the ship's atmosphere and give themselves and their allies the antidote, but they'd only give the PCs the antidote after the meeting ends and the baddie walks away safely. Think like a villain who wants to stay alive when confronting these powerful opponents. Second thing you do. The first encounter with the big bad that the PCs have, it's obvious that the big bad is ludicrously more powerful than the PCs.

It's the invincible villain trope. This advice will piss a few people off because they hate the thought of having an encounter with something that is just absolutely unwinnable. But in this encounter, if you go this route, evil is too powerful, too well-prepared, or too embedded in the system. Horror movies will do this a lot. Jason Voorhees, Freddy Krueger, Candyman, they're just too powerful to defeat until the right allies come along, the right spell is known, or the PCs become powerful enough to defeat the big bad. The first time you see Thanos actually fight in the Marvel Cinematic Universe is when he shows he is stronger and a better fighter than the Hulk. That was an oh shit moment that the Hulk had a hard time dealing with in a later movie.

Early on, have your big bad absolutely destroy the PCs in battle or something the PCs hold dear. In D&D terms, the big bad is a 15th level wizard and the PCs are third level at the time. The wizard just wipes the battlefield with the heroes but leaves them alive for some reason. Stay out of my way or worse will happen to you and your families next time. Join me or die. Some reason for the big bad to keep the PCs alive and the PCs know they're overmatched at this point. In a campaign I'm about to start, the heroes will meet a high-level big bad fairly early on. I have one player, bless his heart, who never shies away from a fight.

I'm betting he's going to try to attack this 13th level baddie while he's first level. It probably won't go the way he wants it to. The character will survive, but the PCs will directly learn how strong the Big Bad is. Alternately, the Big Bad could destroy a town or starship or people that the PCs love or depend on. The Big Bad leaves a note saying what happened to this family is the PC's fault and they need to stay away from him. Third option. Give the Big Bad magical or technological escape routes. Magic items are technology that gives the big bad the ability to escape quickly, like fast movement, jump to

another location, jump to another plane of existence, or the previously mentioned contingency, so they can teleport or ethereal jaunt or dimension door restoration or, depending on your game system, maybe even resurrection. Technology-wise, it could be a haste circuit, an adrenaline pump, nanite infusion, or whatever your game system has that gives someone the ability to escape dangerous situations. Yes, recurring big bads are great, and if you take precautions to make sure they survive until your planned climactic battle, great. But if not, don't panic. Expand the big bad's world.

Make them a lieutenant or part of a larger organization. Bring them back through technological means. Or make what they killed a weaker doppelganger of the big bad. Make your big bad a recurring thorn in the PC's side, and it will be all the more glorious when they finally strike the killing blow against this major antagonist. Thank you so much for listening to episode 73, Oops! The PCs Killed the Big Bad. I once again want to thank our sponsor, Miss Meow's Kitty Theater, all the worlds of stage, and a litter box.

My name is Jeremy Shelley, and I hope that your next game is your best game.