Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris - 35: Alan Cumming, Actor, Author, Activist

Episode Date: September 21, 2016

Alan Cumming is an award-winning actor on the Broadway stage and on-screen, a New York Times best-selling author, director, comedian and activist. He's best known for his roles in Broadway's "Cabaret," TV’s "The Good Wife" and as Nightcrawler in "X-Men 2." During the interview with Dan Harris, Cumming talks about his meditation practice and his new book, "You Gotta Get Bigger Dreams: My Life in Stories and Pictures," out this month. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Before we get started with today's episode, let's talk about summer. Even in the sunshine or on vacation, many of us struggle to enjoy me time or even worse, we struggle to stay present during us time with friends and loved ones. To learn how to actually unwind this summer, check out the Relax and Restore meditation pack in the 10% happier app. Meditation can help you become more mindful and relax no matter what you're doing, whether you're chilling out on the beach, catching up on your favorite show or having a deep conversation. Download the 10% happier app today, wherever you get your apps and get

started with a free trial. Now on with the show. You know Alan coming from the good wife on CBS. Also, he's been in some movies like X-Men and spy kids golden eye Emma I Know him because he about a year ago did me a huge favor I didn't I never actually met the guy but my literary agent the guy who helped me get 10% happier out into the world When none of the publishers wanted to buy it my literary agent who is an awesome guy named Luke Janclow also represents Alan Cumming. And when I was first trying to launch the 10% happier app,

I wanted to get some well-known people to try it and make little videos of it. And so Luke connected me with Alan and we emailed. And even though he didn't know me at all, he agreed to do it, which was really cool of him. And he made these hilarious little videos. You can see him on the interweb if you look it up. So when I heard he had a new book out I wanted to get him in to be on the podcast and got to meet him in person for the

first time and he's incredibly funny and you will hear him he will make you laugh he'll make you think and he will make fun of me. Here he is. From ABC, this is the 10% happier podcast. I'm Dan Harris. Alan, great to meet you. You two, then, yes, finally. You've been such a pleasant presence in my life when you've popped up, but I've never actually met you in person. I've seen you on video and on email. Let me start with a question that we kind of focus on here, which is, are you still meditating?

Yes, I am. I mean, I've kind of dropped off the wagon of what have you called it. Well enough the wagon little bits, but no, I still do it. Yeah. How did you start? I just started doing it myself. I just started like kind of just,

like closing my eyes and just kind of having you know realizing that it would be really nice to just block everything out for a while. How'd that go for you? Pretty well. You're able to like literally block everything out. Like you know just sometimes when you think I could get really stressed out by this or people are really annoying me or you know I could um something I would I'm going to make an executive decision with my brain to just go inside for a little bit. That's really, so that's how I started doing. And then I wanted to try and formalise it a bit more, and kind of try and make it more, have more of a practice at it instead of just being in crisis moments. Or else just at times when I would think thinking, I think sometimes you do it without realizing when you have a, you know, life changes

and you have like very, very quiet time. I was just in Scotland in this island called Bada and I was there on my own for a couple of days and I felt very, I felt like I'd done a lot of meditation without actually doing it in the way that I normally would do it, which would be to kind of, you know, just a question myself and really focus doing it in the way that I normally would do it, which would be to kind of, you know, sequestive myself and really focus on it. When you're doing it formally, what do you do? What's your technique? I sit on a lote here, I have my hands on my knees,

and I breathe, I start to breathe, I start to think about my breathing. I mean, I just feel the breath coming in going out. And I try to do, I mean, I love that breathe, I start to think about my breathing. I mean, I just feel the breath coming in going out. And I try to do, I mean, I love that the thing I've gotten written on my book actually from your audio thing is respond, don't react. Yeah, well, that's my favorite thing. That really stuck out to you. I should just tell everybody that you were very kind, even though we didn't know each other, we have one mutual friend who asked you

when I was launching the 10% happier app, whether you would try it out and maybe make some little videos on your phone and talk about your experience. And you did, which I'm eternally grateful for. And they were totally, they were incredibly charming, which is not surprising at all, given what we know about you.

And the thing that really stuck out to you, which is what we're finding with a lot of our users is respond, not react. Is that being a popular thing? Yeah. I think we need to make T-shirts, that's it. Why is it, what, what speaks to you about that? It was really because it was something I realized I did,

hugely, and I had not questioned at all. It was like someone suddenly kind of, you know, peeling off their face, and it's someone, you know, and it was a completely different person, and I was like, what? And it's just something, it makes such sense. I mean, I guess the whole thing in microcosm for me is just take a step back and just think, okay, that's the best situation here.

What's the best way to deal with this? And then, and then make a kind of qualified and studied decision. Are you going to respond? I mean, I will say, I mean, I've been meditating for a couple of years now. Is it become a guiding principle in my life, but I fail all the time. So how are you able to implement it with any success?

Responding and not reacting. I think I'm pretty good at it. I think I'm actually, I know, yes, I think I actually am very, and I have noticed that with other people, like people around me, I'll say, okay, don't just, don't reply to that email right now. Just wait a minute, let's just, you know, let's rest and let's see how we feel after five minutes.

I feel, I still struggle with it. Right, I mean, it's a struggle, let's just, you know, let's rest and let's see how we feel after five minutes. I feel, I still struggle with it. Right. I mean, it's a struggle. I'm sure it's a constant struggle. I mean, I want a lot of, you know, but I think actually I've got, I think I have got better at that. And I think I have, it sort of passed that into my, you know, community. Really? Yeah, I do. Especially with Jimmy, my assistant, I'm thinking about right now. Very much so. Yeah, I, even yesterday there was a thing where he was responding. He was how about that? He showed me the thing I was like no, you sure you're the email who's about to sound. Yeah, and I had to take that paragraph out Let's just not do that. Let's just leave it. That's just you know, it's not

because I think I mean My mum always says and I think it's a really lovely thing that you know, she always says it doesn't cost anything to be nice. And I feel like any situation, there is no situation in the world that cannot be dealt with better than with kindness. I think even when you want to punch someone in the face, stick a step back and try and be kind about it. And it will go better.

Amen. But easier said than done. Yes, easier said than done. But I think that's the thing with meditation. You have to hypnotize yourself into... It is like that. It's just mesmerizing yourself into a pattern. I think about them we're like training.

It's just like, you know, we train ourselves in the gym, you train your vocal cords to sing. It's a skill, you just get better at it. But I just, I think that's interesting. I think of, that you say training I see mesmerizing. I think I think I mesmerize my body into looking at certain wave when I train. And I think my job is to mesmerize people.

Well, you succeeded at that. I will say. And I want to talk a lot of your performing coming up, but just on the meditation as it were. You said, and I agree that your mother's, your mother's a little maxim is amazing. You're wearing a hat right now that says, make America gay again, which is an amazing hat.

Do you think you could practice kindness with somebody like Donald Trump? Yes, I could. I mean, I think I, because I feel that he's an example of the kind of person you absolutely should use kindness with because his modus operandi is completely to be mean and to be aggressive and to undercut someone and to insult someone and to be offensive. So I think actually more so. I mean that's we're really talking a challenge of course but, I mean, if I was in a room with Donald Trump

and I would want to have a conversation with him, I would absolutely try and do it with great dignity and kindness because I think that's, he expects people not to have those qualities. He lives in a world where people don't have those qualities and that's what he's trying to sell to the world to America right now. And so I think absolutely all the more reason to Remain to him that is possible

You you think that kind of approach Would have worked with your dad who you write about quite movingly in your new book. You got to get bigger dreams I'm holding a I'm holding a galley copy, which is not this isn't the way it actually looks and You and in your this is your third book. Yeah previous book not my father's son, which was a New York Times best seller And what you really talk you really excavate that relationship. Yeah, so I just I wonder Would this ethos work in that context. I mean, I think the very fact that I have that ethos is completely due to the fact that I am my father's son

and that's, you know, I've learned a lot about how to deal with people and difficult people from my early life, but I also think, yes, I would definitely try to, I mean, as an adult, I would try to, as a child, I didn't have much choice, but I definitely, I didn't really ever do anything. I mean, aside from one time when I went to confront my father

with my brother when I was an adult, and I still was kind, I was just more blunt with him. But, no, he died. But also, I mean, I think he's also, my father was, it's difficult when someone I think is mentally ill, has personality disorders. Those kind of rules are harder to use, you know, the kindness and the kind of logic, because someone is illogical and you won't get reason from an unreasonable person.

How bad did it get? Because in the new book you make kind of oblique references to it. Yeah. You just ripped a page out because I was serious about it and I want to ask you about it. You're talking about how in this page, how you're a party animal and you love going out at night. And you thought for a while that your eagerness to dance and have fun was because you never had unadulterated joy or you rarely had unadulterated joy as a child. How bad did it get? It was, I mean, it was more, I mean,

it was very violent sometimes, very violent. Like throwing me, you know, I flew across the room and with the force of his, you know, I flew across the room and with the force of his, you know, strike, but it was more really this, this kind of atmosphere of, of absolute fear and and silence. I remember my child who'd been so silent and just been in a constant state of anxiety about when he was going to erupt next and just what I was going to do to, you know, make him explode and get violent with me. So it was, it was, I mean, in a way, I think that's more potent and terrifying thing is

this overlying, forboding and just complete, you know, tether, real tether. So that that was my childhood. That was like, you know, a really large part of my childhood. And I remember it was being incredibly silent, like nobody speaking. I wouldn't just, you just would knew it would be better to get through if you just kick your head down. And I understand that now I've been in other situations where I have work with tyrants and I see how people the best way to deal with them actually is to kick your head down and move forward and not to draw attention to yourself. But for those of us who see your performances in the good life for on stage a cabaret or

The movies you've done like spike kids or X-Men I don't pick up even a whiff of an unhappy child. You seem so comfortable in your own skin. Oh, I am I am now But I don't you know, I think that's also That's what I know where that's what my first that my last book was about was about how how you can, and why I, I'm really, really glad I wrote it, I didn't expect this kind of part of the process, but like being able to tell people that you can overcome and sort of rise up from something really, really debilitating and potentially completely damaging and have a life that is joyful and successful and I mean that in not an ending to do with my work. How do you do it? I mean I think I am a very strong world person and I talk about it in the last book of a decision I made to

not allow shame into my life. I don't know how that happened. I remember the moment precisely when I rejected shame. And I think I kind of like the way that meditation works, mesmerize myself or trained myself into just thinking, no, it wasn't easy. There was lots of hiccups along the way, but like saying, I'm good enough, I'm fine. It wasn't me and I was lots of hiccups along the way, but like saying, I'm good enough,

I'm fine. It wasn't me. And I'm going to be okay. And I'm going to move forward and not let this baggage from my past dictate my present or my future. I think that's... To do that through sheer force of will is, or at least in part, through sheer force of will, is pretty amazing. With some therapy along the way. Well, I have nothing against therapy. That's all good in my book. You mentioned meditation there. To the extent that you said you kind of fall off the wagon or get back on the wagon. What do you, I'm always curious about this. Why is it a hard habit to make in a biting one? For me, it's because of lack of routine in my life. It's really, when I have a, I mean, I'm an actor

and I do, you like this. If you saw my book with all my schedule for the last couple of weeks, it's been crazy. And the last week I've been, you know, and the remote Western Isles of Scotland, Lebanon, back to London, Edinburgh, New York, LA, New York. It's really in the last week and now I'm on a book tour and I'm here until Friday and then I go off again.

So I don't have a, I mean I really do crave. That's why I love when I'm in a play. I love going to work at the same time every day. I love eating my meals and say, I mean, it sounds really sort of pedantic. And I know because a lot of people who have that kind of are bored of it and wish they had more of a kind of, oh, I'm flying off to here today. But I think that's what makes it things like meditation difficult. For me, is that I don't have a pattern like I do this at this time.

And I, like, even just right now, I'm, you know, I've got my swimming costume in my bag because I have an hour later, I'm going to go swimming because I'm really crave. I feel like, you know, I feel like, I feel swimming is a very meditative thing, actually. I love that, just like that quiet and that, and I really get to think, and also nobody recognizes me, you know, in a swimming pool, that's really good. Like an NGM, people see you in sweating and... Did I get an on, people see you sweating. Does that get annoying? People recognize you.

Yeah, absolutely. But I mean, on the one hand, I can see how it would be annoying, but also if people aren't recognizing you, the fact that people are recognizing you is a sign that you're doing something right that you've achieved the success that your performances are memorable, etc., etc. Yes. I mean, it's sort of, I don't really quantify it in that way and I may I get I wonder what would happen if I I mean I remember one time when I was 40 so quite a long time ago. What really? Yeah, I'm 51 You wear it well. Do you sleep in formaldehyde?

No, I don't sleep in Not enough not enough of it At least last not last night as DJing at my own book launch party. And then I guess it was such fun I kept on DJing even after the party was finished and it became another party. And then the real DJ got jealous and chucked me out. I got like, blocked by a DJ, or so. DJ blocked. But, you know, when you have this big birthday, you have a sort of, but no, when I, on the night, you know, when you get, when you have this big birthday, you have a sort of, you know, reckoning and maybe a little flip out. And my flip out,

on my, the night for my 40th birthday was as weeping. I mean, I was a hot, a telephine drink, of course. I was weeping, I'm just like, and, um, grant my husband said, what is it? What is it? And I was like, I don't want to be famous anymore. And I was at the Sundance Film Festival, which I don't know if you've been to that. It's just like, I was there for like a whole week and I was, I had a film there, but also I was doing this thing for the Sundance Channel

and giving people, it felt like people hitting your head like this all day of like 24 hours a day. That's what it feels like. People at the people. And it's got these little fences along the main street so you can't cross the road. It's just so intense. And I just said I reached my ceiling with it with people and it, you know, and it's a kind of a, it's like a celebrity petting zoo, is that that happens quite a lot in other situations. And I realized I had this while I was sad as well, as I realized, even if I stopped, it

didn't ever meet another film, never did another performance or anything. It would go on for such a long time, even without me doing anything to exacerbate it. What if you stopped it in an all-winter way, would you miss it? Well, I don't know. I mean, who knows. That's kind of my point. Because it won't go away, it would go away a long time before it did totally go away. Because of the long tail of the work you've done. Yes, because I'm old. And you know, because you're just, it's just old things are on TV all the time and people

remember you. And so it wouldn't just stop right now. So it's actually kind of, it was actually a very liberating thing. So I thought, I like what I do. I like the fact I get to do what I want. I like this life I have. Part of why I can do things like, right, this book or, you know, this film I was in earlier this year and get this film

made is because I'm in quite mainstream things that a lot of people watch and so I earn it's like a kind of deposit I have a I get something from the fame bank and I can deposit them in the obscure arti bank and I really like that transaction so it's actually all right. It's all going fine, but I can't get off. But, but, but, but if I'm at home and I'm listening to this interview with my headphones or whatever, I can imagine some people saying, oh, I mean, this is a high class problem being famous. Oh, twer-a-quistars. Yes. Oh, I'm not, I'm not pretending otherwise. I'm not, and I'm

not mourning. I'm actually saying I were on your 40th birthday I wasn't morning. I was bemoaning. I think I was I was you know, I was having a realization Actually, I was having a realization and I don't you know there's things about it. There's you reach your ceiling sometimes in certain situations where you're In a public situation and it's just feel you feel like like I say this thing I've been just being people tapping your face like it's like you're being tortured and it's not torture of course it's just but it's just like you have no time for yourself, nothing for you and so I've developed a way to live my life where I can have it all I. I have the benefits of what it brings. I do the things that I have to do. And I also live a life where I don't hide. And I've made myself, you know, exist in

the public world. I haven't cut myself off. And I think that's the way to go. It's all, again, it's all, you know, a transaction and an negotiation to find the kind of life that you want to live. And I want to be able to walk along the streets and have fun and not go to bars and not worry but people, you know, not being in the papers for doing something ridiculous. I think I've managed to craft a life for myself where I can be who I want to be and still be the personality in the world that allows me to do the kind of work I want to do. Hey there listeners! While we take a little break here, I want to tell you about another podcast that I think you'll like.

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to learn along the way, like confronting big challenges, and how to lead through uncertainty. So, if you want to get inspired and learn how to think like an entrepreneur, check out how I built this, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon or Wondery app. I'm just studying up for this podcast. I mean, the array of things you do is dizzy. You tour and do, I make it this wrong. Is it Alan coming sing, Sappy song?

That's correct. So you sing songs all over the place, all over the world. You are on TV shows, you're in movies, you're, as we said, this is your third book. That's a lot to keep on the track. So let me ask you about this new book. You got to get bigger dreams of my life in stories and pictures. What was the, what was the impetus for writing this book? Well, actually, I wanted to do a book like this for a while before my last one actually, because some of the stories,

the Gorovidal story is a story, but we can't expect it with Gorovidal. And that was in 2001, and I wrote it quite soon afterwards in the next couple years after that. So that's a long time ago. So I've had this, and then I've updated it and kind of added to it,

but some of these stories were from a long time ago, and a lot of the photos are from a long time ago. So I've had this, and then I've updated it and kind of added to it. But some of these stories were, you know, from a long time ago, and a lot of the photos are from a long time ago. So it's kind of like doing that, having a little bit of writing, trying to get a collection together. And then all the stuff happens with my father and my grandfather in 2010, and that's where I wrote, not my father's son. So in a way, this is the book I kind of meant to write a while ago and then circumstances dictated. So going back to it was really nice because I felt a little more confident and also I felt like I'd

already written a book very revealing about my life. And now this was a book that was more about a kind of more fun side of my life, mostly. And it was, I think, photos are a good way, you know, literally a snapshot into my life. Because I am doing what Gorovidal told me to do. I'm, you know, I'm talking, I meet fascinating people like him, and I write about them and analyse them. So, I mean, I'm kind of, I wanted to call this book, I am writing this because Gerva Daltour me to, but they wouldn't let me because it was too long. That's why I call the stories, called that, about him. You got to get bigger dreams, where does that come from?

That comes from something that Oprah said, because my friend Eddie is an absolute Oprah nut. And Oprah was being honored by the Ellie, um, had you said, we sell, Ellie Vizel, Vizel foundation that duly departed. And, um, so I got invited to this thing. And I was, so I took Eddie as my date, knowing that he would freak out because opera was going to be there. And so we went to it. And this, this is a long, quite a long story in the book. But basically,

at the end of the year towards the middle of the evening, actually, I realized I was kind of zooming in on Oprah and trying to get him kind of in the, because he was so desperate for a photo. And I was like, Eddie, I'm not sure that's going to be possible. And you know how much you hate it when people come and bug me when we're having dinner and he was like, I know, I know, I see your point, but I still want to photo. And so I realized that she was starting to walk towards us, because we were like, by

the lose. And she was coming to the lose in the dinner break of this ceremony. And I was like, she's coming, she's coming. So I was trying to unzoom my camera and I hear Eddie in this little piping choir boy voice going, Oprah, may I have a photo with you? It would be my dream. And Oprah said, you gotta get bigger dreams. And I just thought it was so,

and I took this awful picture. I mean, it's a great picture, but it's not technically kind of awful. Half of Oprah's face is in it, looking beatific. And then all of Eddie's face is blurred and manic looking. And it was completely the essence of that moment. Oprah cannot be fully there, she's a goddess, but I thought that even in that moment of huge annoyance

it must be, I mean that happens to me a lot, I can't imagine what it must be like for Oprah, constantly being at when you take a step in a public situation, constantly being asked for photographs or people wanting to grab you. Even in that moment she managed to impart some wisdom, Because she was right. Eddie should have bigger dreams. His dreams shouldn't be just to have a photo with Oprah. You know what I mean? And now she has released them to have bigger dreams

because he's got that one. Very cool. What do you, how would you describe your career ambitions? What are your to quote Oprah? What are your bigger dreams at age 51? Having achieved so much. What do you want to do? Um, I would like to, I would like to maintain. I like, I actually really enjoy, I've never had

idols or dreams in that way. I've never had, you know, I think, especially in America, people have put so much on us on, um, achievements and goals and things like that. And I feel everyone's constantly on this, you know, kind of striving for an end when actually they're missing the journey and, you know, missing the present. And I, so I've always been very weary of that. I don't really have dreams. I mean, I don't really have, there's nothing right now that I'm thinking, I really want to do this. You're just enjoying the ride.

I am. And I think I've always been like that. I really do. I mean, one thing I wanted to do when I was at drama school was to work at the Citizens Theatre in Glasgow, because they just did really great, I mean, it was so stylish and chic, I thought it was just, they did a beautiful design and they did all these funny European players,

you know, nobody ever had heard of and had seen and I just thought it was so I loved it and it was in this theater in the middle of the Gorbals, which is very And a working class early on I just loved everything about it And it was really cheap to go about it was obviously subsidized by the government of course But I just everything about it. I just wanted to be a part of that was my dream. Did you achieve it? No No, I did it. You still better? No, I'm kind of like a sort of like, ah, ah, ah.

I mean, I remember when I worked for the Turing company and I thought that was so exciting. And then they actually, I got a phone call from the director of it saying, you called me up at home. I was like, oh, this is it. This is it. And they said, we would love you to come and join the company. I was like, oh, and he said, we'd love you to play

Pinocchio in our Christmas show. And I was like, fuck yeah, nice, darn. So because it was always a thing, they would always employ like Scottish people in the Christmas show to do the kind of dopey Christmas show. And then not give those people jobs in the proper season. So I know I was doing something anyway, I wasn't free. But they've asked me since. And also, it's a different, different it's different people do it now it's not the same at all.

So it was just a kind of a you know it was a magical time for a few years when the just it was it was just something I really really wanted to do but I've never since then I really do feel I feel like I've tumbled through life and I know that's annoying for people because it looks like I'm this captain of industry of my own, you know, brand or whatever. And I'm not. I just think things would be fun. And I do them. And of course, you know, I also have tattooed your, you probably can't say this, but you also have a lot of talent. I mean, that talented, you know, I mean, I don't think them. Yeah. But so lots of people are talented. You know, I do, I mean, I don't think them. Yeah, but so, lots of people are talented. I mean, I also think it's really annoying when I actually say,

I'm so lucky in blah, blah, blah, blah, and hashtag Blast and everything, all this annoying things. I have a huge problem with hashtag. Me too. I think it's a lazy thing to say, to not analyze and to not, it just, I just think it's just not, I don't like it. I also feel it's like a humble brag. You know what I mean?

It's like a same- I love humble brag. Yeah. Look at my amazing life. Look at my private plane, I'm blessed. It's just like a way to kind of take the edge off of bragging. Totally, totally. I kind of preempts it.

It's sort of, yeah, I love that humble brag. Do you follow that on Twitter? No, I mean, I'm aware of it. I don't follow it. Yeah, they haven't done much recently, but I just love it. But yeah, I hate all that, but I do feel also at the same time incredibly lucky. I think you know my I am an example of of someone who benefited from

circumstance luck you know Confluence of various circumstances and of of course, I am quite talented. But so are many people. And there's many more people, much more talented than me. Maybe they don't have the kind of social skills. Maybe they don't have, you know, there's a lot. But I do feel that it's to be in my position being the kind of person I am. It's completely arbitrary. And to do it just, you know, the feats.

One more question before I let you go and get into your swimming costume and go swimming. And this is a kind of a heavy way to end, but you just did a pretty serious thing which was you went to Lebanon and worked for the UN High Commissioner refugees. Yeah. Why did you want to do that? What did you learn? I wanted to do that because I've just been sort of over the last few years, you know, looking at the refugee crisis and with horror and you

know, and all these awful things of these boats and people drowning in the Mediterranean and also seeing how much the massive displacement like that in Syria and Iraq has affected so much of Europe, like you know it really devastating the relations within various countries and bringing up really horrible opinions in people and Brexit, you know I think the whole Brexit thing was completely influenced by the city and refugee crisis and the worry of the other and all these people coming in. Britain has also had a lot, it's been a building thing of asylum seekers from other countries. I knew here, of course, where all the immigrants were, just completely a touchstone of venom and vioness and racism and xenophobia. And

I think that's completely to do it. I think the world's in this time of everything changing and people moving and being displaced. So it's affecting everything. And I really wanted to go and just go back to the root of it and see actually what it was like. That's really why I wanted to go. What did you say? I saw just people who have had to give up everything and just want to go back home. And they are in these situations that are so bleak and many of them are still in danger. And these kids that are born in these little shelters have never had any other life than being a refugee. And they're in this little lean-to with plastic sheeting

and they're with nothing. And their money, if any savings they had, just five years now, it's running out. You see Lebanon, the country of Lebanon, is draining at the seams to deal with 30% of the population of Lebanon are now refugees. Isn't that crazy? Already a country that had its own problems. Exactly. So, you just add this on top. And it's, you know, and puts, and I met people who, you know, told me stories of such,

what they've been through is incomprehensible to me, like to have survived, to have, you know, told me stories of such, what they've been through is, is incomprehensible to me, like, to have survived, to have, you know, and I'm someone who's been through things and I feel like, transcended, really dark things in my life. But just, perhaps because of that, seeing that in other people, young people who saw their friends being, you know, is that a whole LGBT program in the UN refugees because a lot of these kids that come out of the RLGBT, they're still in danger. And sometimes the country they might be resettled in

will not accept them. And they can't go back. They can't go back, not just because their town is still being bombed or their ISIS is controlling it. Because if they go back, they'll be killed immediately because they're gay. And I heard them say they saw their friends being thrown off roofs, they were raped and electrocuted and burned sometimes by their own families. I saw a man held my hand and said Alan you've got to tell the world we need to be resettled, it's dangerous for us here in Lebanon. It's still, you know, they could still be re expatriated back to

Syria or Iraq and immediately killed. So it was just this, I mean, overall I felt like I met a lot of people who are not scary, are not aggressive towards America or the West, quite the reverse. They are being helped by a great institution like the UN, really, really helped, relying on it. But all they want to do is to go back and have the life that they used to have before all this started. So that was a... And I realized that, you know, here, look, this is great. We're talking about it now. I realized this would happen and I feel that I think it's really good to remind people that don't buy into this rhetoric of hatred and fear that really this situation is being caused,

but they're running from the people we're afraid of too. They're not the people we should be afraid of. And they're not trying to scare us, actually. So that was really what I learned. a'r ymdyn ni'n yw'r ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i'n ysgwyr i but they were set up after the Second World War with the plan to only be in existence for a few years to help all the displaced people from the Second World War. And you know... Optimistic, yeah. And you know, sadly, after about 20 years, the U.M. was like, I think we should keep you as a parent and think, because like, you know, this is probably going to continue and it has. And yet, because of that, they have this great history of unsystem of how to deal with these situations. So I was really, really impressed by that. I also had met people who their entire life, their entire working life, has been going around the world, helping refugees and

making setting out systems for people to live in displaced situations. And I felt so full of admiration for them. Alan, I'm sensitive to your time. We just say thank you for doing this. Thank you. Thank you for all your work, your work, your doing, including your new book, you gotta get bigger dreams. And thank you also for being nice to me when you didn't even know me and I didn't deserve it

for helping us launch the app. Well, I like to, I like, you know, I feel people's energy and I feel, I've responded to your essence. My digital essence. Great to meet you in the flesh. I really appreciate it. And good luck on the rest of this book tour.

All right, there's another edition of the 10% Happier Podcast. If you like it, I'm gonna hit you up for a favor. Please subscribe to it, review it, and rate it. I wanna also thank the people who produced this podcast, Josh Cohan, Lauren Efron, Sarah Amos, and the head of ABC News Digital, Dan Silver. And hit me up at Twitter, Dan B. Harris. See you next time.

Hey, hey, prime members. You can listen to 10% happier early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts. Before you go, do us a solid and tell us all about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash Survey.