Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris - A Candid Conversation With The Rapper Common On: Self-Worth, Fitness, Trauma, And The Evolution Of Vulnerability In Hip-Hop

Episode Date: August 14, 2024

This multi-hyphenate opens up about his four pillars of health and successCommon is an Oscar, Golden Globe, Emmy, and Grammy Award–winning music artist. He is an actor and producer, and has appeared in numerous critically acclaimed films, as well as hit TV series. He is the author of One Day It’ll All Make Sense and Let Love Have the Last Word, which were both New York Times bestsellers. He was raised in Chicago and currently resides in Brooklyn.In this episode we talk about:Common’s relationship with self esteem growing up, and where he eventually found his own self worth.What it’s like dealing with rejection as an artistHis book ‘And Then We Rise’The four different wellness pillars in his book; food, the body, the mind, and the soulThe positive impact that therapy has had on his lifeWhat his meditation practice looks likeThe evolution of vulnerability in hip hopThe evolution of vulnerability in his lifeAnd his relationship with spiritualityRelated Episodes:Rewire How You Talk To Yourself | Ofosu Jones-Quartey#597. Mike D On: The Value of Failure, the Addictive Power of Adrenaline, and How a Beastie Boy Got Into Lovingkindness#311 Karamo: How To Actually Do Self-LoveSign up for Dan’s weekly newsletter hereFollow Dan on social: Instagram, TikTokTen Percent Happier online bookstoreSubscribe to our YouTube ChannelOur favorite playlists on: Anxiety, Sleep, Relationships, Most Popular EpisodesFull Shownotes: https://www.tenpercent.com/tph/podcast-episode/commonSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to 10% happier early and ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. It's the 10% happier podcast. I'm Dan Harris. Hello everybody. How How we doing today? I've been reading a little bit lately about the history of hip hop. And it really does seem that one change that has accelerated quite quickly in recent years is that rappers are getting increasingly real and open about their inner lives.

I want to be clear here, I'm no rap historian and real life historians should feel free to at me if I'm blowing this, but my memory is that when I first started listening to rap as a kid back in the 70s and 80s, the lyrics were really quite centered on partying and bravado and of course there was a side dish of misogyny. By the 90s with the advent of gangster rap, you started to get a lot of gritty reporting

on the realities of life on the streets, and also some notable glimpses into the emotional lives of some rappers, like Biggie and Tupac. Biggie himself actually rapped about contemplating ending his own life. Today's rappers, however, are taking vulnerability to an entirely new level, and somebody who's been a big part of this shift

is the rapper Common, who, as you will hear in this interview, talks about therapy, meditation, and childhood sexual abuse. Common, for the uninitiated, is an Oscar and Golden Globe and Emmy and Grammy Award-winning musical artist. He has also written several books, including his latest, which is called And Then We Rise, which is about wellness, a subject, and you'll hear him say this,

to which he initially had quite a profound resistance. So in this conversation, we talk about Common's relationship with self-esteem growing up and where he eventually found his own self-worth, what it's like dealing with rejection as an artist, the four different wellness pillars in his new book, food, body, mind, and soul. And also we talk about the evolution of vulnerability in hip hop.

I should say this is part of an occasional series we do on this show called Boldface, where we talk to well-known people who are willing to go there. We're doing three Boldface episodes this week. If you missed it, go back and check out my interview with Goldie Hahn. Coming up on Friday, it's Jeff Tweedy from Wilco. But today it's common and that's coming up right after this. But first, some blatant self-promotion. This will be quick. One of the biggest problems that many of us face in terms of keeping our meditation habit going is that we don't know other people who do it. And actually having that social support can be a huge, huge deal, which is the operating thesis behind the meditation party retreats

that I've been throwing with Jeff Warren and Sibene Selassie. We've got another one coming up on October 11th at the Omega Institute in Rhinebeck, New York. You can do it in person or online. BIPOC scholarships are available. Go to eomega.org for more information. Meanwhile, over on the 10% Happier app, they're rolling out a new feature called monthly check-ins at the start of every month. You can set an intention, share your obstacles, and get a personalized meditation plan. And for a limited time,

you can get 40% off a subscription. head over to 10% dot com slash 40. Listening to Audible helps your imagination soar. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, new ways of thinking. Listening can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits, and ultimately your overall well-being. Audible has the best selection of audiobooks without exception, along with popular podcasts and exclusive Audible Originals, all in one easy app. Enjoy Audible anytime while doing other things, household chores, exercising on the road,

commuting, you name it. My wife Bianca and I have been listening to many audiobooks as we drive around for summer vacations. We listen to Life by Keith Richards. Keith, if you're listening, I'd love to have you on the show. We also listen to Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari. And Yuval, if you're listening to this, we would also love to have you on the show. So audiobooks. Yes, audible. Yes, love it. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30 day Audible trial

and your first audio book is free. Visit audible.ca, audible.ca. I'm Mike Bubbins. I'm Ellis James. And I'm Steph Guerrero. And we're convinced that our podcast, The Socially Distanced Sports Bar, is going to be your new favourite comedy podcast with just a little bit of sport thrown in.

You don't have to love sport, like sport or even know anything about sport to listen. Because nobody has conversations which stay on topic and it's the same on our podcast. We might start off talking about ice hockey but end up discussing, I don't know, 1980s British sitcom Al Alo instead. Imagine using the word nuance in your pitch for Alo Alo. He's not cheating on his wife, he's French. It's a different culture. If you like me and Mammoth, or you like Alice in Fantasy Football League,

then you'll love our podcast. Follow The Socially Distant Sports Bar wherever you get your podcasts. The Socially Distant Sports Bar, it's not about asymmetrical overlords. James, podcasting from his study. And you have to say that's magnificent. Kamen, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. How are you? I'm doing great. I'm excited to talk to you. I'm a fan you were on a show Years ago that did not in my opinion get nearly enough attention. I believe was called hell on wheels

Yes, I watched every episode of that show. I loved it Really? Thank you for checking it out because you're right then not a lot of people were aware of hell on wheels It came on AMC in around 2012, I think it debuted. It was a fun show. I thought it was written well. We had a great cast, but it didn't reach that level. Sometimes I think everything's like divine timing. And for some reason, that show didn't connect with the masses

like some of the other shows that AMC had put out, Breaking Bad, Mad Men. You know, we gave our best and I really have to say that different people tell me they've seen that show and I feel like honored that they've seen it and different walks of life who didn't know anything about me or what I do to say, man, I've seen you in a show called Hell on Wheels.

So I'm grateful that I was a part of it. I got to ride horses too. Yes, you did. Yes, you did. I'm curious, before we started the interview, you got up and lit something on fire. What was that all about? So this is Palo Santo and it stands for Hollywood.

And it's something that I do. I really enjoy it. It comes from South America, the trees from South America, Chile, a lot of Palo Santo comes from there. And I light it is supposed to bring in the good energy and remove the bad energy. But I also love the smell of it. And it's just, you know, I do certain things that just center myself.

Hmm. Well, that actually leads us right into the smell of it. And it's just, you know, I do certain things that's just sent to myself. Well, that actually leads us right into the subject of the day. A lot of people know you as a rapper and an actor. Also, by the way, you've written memoirs. So that's another thing you're known for, but I don't know that a lot of people think of you as a wellness guy.

I'm just curious, what brought you to this subject and this book? Well, Dan then this has been my life. I would say the journey started when I was 19 About just starting to take care of myself and that first started with just diet being aware of certain things or removing certain things from my diet And then implementing things that really benefited me from a diet perspective, food and eating cleaner to actually rationing my drinking because I dealt with alcoholism in my family. But then also just implementing my spirituality and learning new things that I hadn't been introduced to when I was younger, like therapy and meditation. Really beginning and developing and evolving that quest to love myself

and take care of myself became what we know to be wellness. Because that has been what I've been living and it's been probably the most important thing in my life. It comes out in my music, it comes out in my acting, it comes out in my activism because it's who I am. I felt it was important for me to share that, especially coming from the South Side of Chicago, a young Black man who didn't hear these words or know anything about this type of lifestyle or, you know, until I was able to travel and see different and meet different people from different walks of life and see the world and start implementing these different pieces that helped me to my wellness journey.

I'm still on the quest. I'm still learning. I'm still practicing this lifestyle. But you're right. I mean, people wouldn't look at me as a wellness guru, but I do have a story. I have experienced a lot and I made it a real point to give people access in my book to the people who have instructed me, who have led me and taught me in certain ways about wellness. So that's what you get actually in the book.

Wellness was not a concept that was raised for you when you were growing up? No, I mean, the term wellness, I definitely didn't hear me. We had gym class, but beyond that, I mean, I can't think of anything that we intentionally, in my family, in somewhat even, I won't say community because we did have activities for us as kids to just to exercise. So that was, but just as a way of life, wellness wasn't a word, self-love wasn't a word, care for self wasn't a word

and it wasn't a practice. And we culturally, from where I grew up, we were eating anything that we liked. That is not how, you know, I believe we can achieve our best out of life. That is not how I've achieved my best out of life. Not my happiest moments or, you know, being at my best and highest self was not just doing everything that I like

and just doing everything that I like and just doing everything in excess. That's what American culture in many ways, where I grew up, we had no knowledge of it. And you know, it was important for me. If I've been introduced to something that is beneficial in life, it's my duty to share with people. I obviously want to bring it back to communities that I come from because they may not even been exposed to it. But people in general, I think is important for me to share, whether it's information experiences. And all of the experiences are not always like okay I just decided

to eat healthy and it just worked out. No, some of it is I'm talking about in the book and then we rise. I'm talking about the obstacles and the ups and downs and I'm still working on it now and the things that I do to motivate me and not feeling like working out some days or not feeling like being positive some days. And how do I get to that positive space is what I share in the book and what I strive to do in my life. I think that's very common as somebody who, oddly,

my whole life kind of revolves around these concepts now. And I see this in my own life and in everybody else that I talk to about this stuff is that progress isn't like a straight unbroken upward trajectory. It's always bumpy. That's just the way it goes. I'm curious, given your background, did you have any resistance when people first started talking to you about making changes to your diet, moderating intake of intoxicants, going to therapy, engaging in things like self-love.

Were you all in right from the jump, or did you push it away? My journey started with resistance. I am a person that, if things are being told to me, and even especially if it's popular, well, it wasn't popular then, but things are being told to me and even especially if it's popular, well it wasn't popular then, but things are being told to me. I keep one eye open, meaning like, are you sure?

Nah, you got to really prove this to me. So I keep certain resistance and I kept resistance from the standpoint of diet. What happened for me was growing up in Chicago, I ate everything that I loved. Barbecue, burgers, steaks, chicken, pizza puffs, french fries, I'm talking about every day. When I had the ability to go out and pay for my food, I would go out and get stuff that I wanted that tasted like that.

So at one point I had friends of mine who were becoming more conscious. And ironically, through hip hop culture was one of the first times I really got introduced to what a vegetarian was. And even thinking about removing something from my diet because certain rappers like KRS-One from the group Boogie Down Productions talked about this. And Eric B and Raakim talked about this. And I would repeat it and say that raps, but I wasn't really thinking about everything that I was saying. And when I did, I was resisting it in a way

where I had friends saying, man, you know you want better, you could do better. And why don't you think about, you know, just deciding not to eat this every day. And I was like, man, that's not affecting me. I'm good. I'm dope on the mic. I'm doing, you know about just deciding not to eat this every day?" And I was like, man, that's not affecting me. I'm good.

I'm dope on the mic. I'm doing, you know, just saying things that really are ignorant, just to be resistant. But my spirit, my heart, my mind said, man, I want to be better. I want to be a better human being. I want to be better at this as an artist. And what are things that I can do for myself to be better? And I looked at diet as one of the things that I could do to improve. Also, cutting back on drinking was one of the things I could do to improve.

And as I started to take those steps, then it was like, wow, I'm starting to feel power in other areas that I didn't even think about that this would affect. What about self-love as a young man? Was that initially appealing or did you resist that? Well, I wasn't really presented with self-love as a concept, ideology, or even a practice. I resisted it because I didn't know I had experienced things in my life which made my self-love go down. It went below zero to a certain degree.

To be really candid, not having my father around initially was something that affected my self-love. I didn't know that then, but it did. You know, my mother actually remarried and another person coming into her life that's very important was affecting me. And I didn't know that then, but I know it now because of therapy and things that I've been through,

discussing those things, which as a young person, I didn't know how to embrace self love. My self esteem was not strong. It was not the thing that was my strength. It took me a lot of time to work on that and build that. I was strong in certain areas, but overall I was not, self esteem was not like the place where I was like, yeah, I got it. It took work. And so that didn't come to honestly, till I was an adult, a young adult, is when I started to think about self-love.

It's interesting you said self-esteem doesn't come naturally to you because this is not always true. Hip-hop is a vast art form at this point, but I was just watching the amazing documentary on Peacock about Run DMC. And it goes through the origins of hip hop. And I was alive for all of that.

I remember when Sugarhill Gang and all the other early rappers burst onto the scene and it started as an art form where people were talking about how great they were. So it's interesting to hear you as somebody who has excelled in this art form as a rapper to say that self-esteem actually was not a strength for you. Well, rap is truly hip-hop was truly an expression for us to talk about our greatness, to express it, to discover it, and I was discovering my greatness as a writer, as an MC, as a hip-hop artist. And I felt like when it was time for me to rap, I felt that confidence and I felt that strength and I felt that self-belief. But it was the other areas of

my life that I wasn't practicing that, that I didn't believe. And those were very important areas because those were areas where I'm dealing with challenges of self-love. Meaning sometimes I can get off the microphone after just saying, I'm like, oh man, I'm dope, I'm fresh and all these great things about myself, but then be in a relationship and dim my light and not be able to state what I need in a relationship or state who I am or have boundaries. I could be selling records and releasing all these videos and being Grammy nominated, but still I would get around other artists and feel like I'm not as popular as them, so I don't have as much value.

And that is where, like, the line was drawn for me where I was like, okay, I could say I'm nice on the mic and say all these things, but do I believe it beyond just the microphone? And do I believe it when the records are not being received well? That's when it got challenged and I really discovered that deep down, I needed to feel that whole of not feeling that self-empowerment, self-love. I needed to work on it. I can imagine it's hard when you have a big burst of popularity and then you get involved in some projects that aren't received as well.

And you've got pre-existing self-, self worth issues or lack of self love. Though I'm just guessing those are really hard moments. Very hard moments. When I released my first record, I didn't come out and just explode on the scene. It wasn't that for me. So I was able to build certain qualities, which made me appreciate being an artist and being on a journey and know that this is not an industry where you're gonna be the star

and soon as you come out, everybody's gonna pay attention to you. And that wasn't my story. But at the times when I did reach those heights, it's different when you get challenged when your community starts saying, the people that always loved you like, oh, we don't like this record here.

Oh, this one is not good. Or you feel like you are doing good and then you get on the red carpet and all the cameras turn to Britney Spears at the time. And you're like, wait, I'm not as valuable as I think in this. But that taught me where do I put my value and do I really believe in who I am beyond platinum album, beyond an award,

beyond where the cameras are turning. Do I have that self-worth where it's like, it's divine, it's coming from where God created me to be and knowing that I'm a child of God, just like you are, just like everyone listening is like this superstar, this may be Jay-Z or Beyonce or LeBron or whomever that we hold up high

and that I hold up high, I'm just as valuable. It took time for me to understand that. And our society, the world can place value on certain things that are not going to fulfill you as a person, not in the long run. You are definitely a grown man at this point. You've been through quite a bit. Does the self-confidence still falter at all? Are there scenarios or situations in which you might find yourself where you can lose the self-worth because the cameras are turning away or because you're around people who are by some measure more popular or more successful? The self-worth still gets challenged.

It's not as much about other people per se now. Like I could be in a room with some of the most talented, gifted superstars ever. And I kind of now have an understanding of, man, I love their work, but I understand and respect and honor my value too and my talents and my grace. The times where it gets challenged is where

you really want a movie project and they're like, we're going to these actors first. And you have to really realize, okay, well, these actors are more established, they have been more successful and that's okay. And that just might just be who they want. And you still hope and believe that maybe it might come around to you, but if it doesn't,

then you know it wasn't for you. But in that process, you do get challenged when a company is looking for artists to do a marketing campaign, and they like, ah, we're gonna go with this person instead of you. It does humble you, but at the same token, you know, my mother taught me some great lessons because auditioning and getting turned down and other people getting roles,

it's rejection after rejection after rejection. And you know, my mother said something to me at one point, I don't know how long ago it was, but she was like, man, listen, you need to send whoever got that role some love, send them some light and say a prayer that they do well and know that that was for them

and your place is your place. And the more I really understand that, I feel like an adult, I feel like empowered and life becomes easier. Now that doesn't mean I don't feel the disappointment that I didn't get the role or that this job didn't happen. I feel that, but I'm able to recover quicker. I don't go into it as the deep of a hole

and I just feel better when I am sending light and love to someone because I truly know what I'm here to do and who I'm created to be and what I'm purpose to be and do. For 30 years, I was a news anchor. Twenty one of those years were at ABC News and I got passed over for a million jobs and had that feeling of rejection over and over. And friends of mine would get big jobs and it was very painful.

And then part of the reason why I'm not a news anchor anymore and I do this stuff full time is that I ended up spending a lot of time studying Buddhism. And in Buddhism, there's a practice that is essentially the same thing that your mother taught you. And this practice is called Mudita, M-U-D-I-T-A. And it is basically a kind of meditation in which you imagine people who are experiencing success and happiness right now, and you send them the wish for continued success and happiness. And it's a skill and it is sometimes said within the Buddhist tradition that it is the hardest mental skill to develop because we are so hardwired to.

The envious to be jealous, to compare. That's a beautiful thing. And I have to say that in my journey to wellness and just living a happier life, I've come across some Buddhist literature. It was a book I remember in the late 90s, I was reading either called Awakening the Buddha Within. It was a great book. I really understand those practices of sending light to someone else and not letting your envy or jealousy

hover over you and like block your own blessings and your own vision for yourself is truly one of the most challenging things. But the more you practice it, the easier it becomes. And that doesn't mean you don't have difficult moments. Because, man, it's been some projects I really was like, man, I should be in this. I want this. I just did a great audition thanking God and saying, man, I got this role, but didn't get it. And it hurts, but you do understand that on a greater level, on a higher level, that's why I talk about the higher self.

That role was meant for the person who got it. And what I'm supposed to have, and even that experience that I had in the audition was really just part of my journey and part of what I'm supposed to be going through and embracing that and looking at some of the good things that did occur sometimes because we are so goal oriented in the world or maybe I like to say America more because that's where I spent most of my life and that's where I've seen sometimes I go other places

I don't feel it as strong as like meaning work, work, work, get this to this goal and that's it. But that being said, to get the value and victory and also knowing like, oh, I went in the audition, I did my best and I actually did a good job and I didn't stress myself, is something that I have had to learn to look at and appreciate and value that too, because it is always get the role.

The goal is the role, but sometimes the goal is what you've experienced. Do it, even though if you wanted that goal of the role, but the true gems and the true jewels might come into experience if you can see it that way. Yes. Sometimes the gem comes hidden in a huge bag of shit. Um, unfortunately.

Yeah, yes, it definitely does. But then one of my greatest gems about believing in myself came in my greatest heartbreak, my first adult love that I thought was the love for life. In the same parallel to that was my album that I released and it was flopping from the critics to the sales. And I was really challenged at that time to feel like me and be like, feel like who am I?

Like I was going through it in the dark ways. That shit started to turn golden because I was just like, I can't keep just being in the dumps. I gotta do something. I gotta pull myself up. I gotta lift myself up and use whatever resources I have to build and see why. Cause I don't believe in like things

that we experienced like that. I believe it's a why to it. And that why will give us the jewels that we need to move forward to build stronger character and aura and person, you know, as we look at those lessons and get those gifts of whatever that difficulty brought us. Yeah, I'm just trying to think how I feel. I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and my thoughts are not like completely together on it. But I have a friend, her name is Sebena. Selassie is her last name and she's a meditation teacher and she has a tattoo that she got recently. It says trust life.

It's not my language per se, but she's a woman who has gone through cancer four times and recently got divorced. And her argument is, I think if I'm stating this correctly, it's something along the lines of this shit that happens to you is supposed to happen to you because it did happen to you. I don't know if there's any like magical or metaphysical aspect to her argument,

but basically it happened to you, that's non-negotiable. Are you going to learn from it or not? And you might even argue that it was the universe. And I don't know if I could go all the way to this, but you could even argue that it's the universe, you know, giving you what you need. Yeah, I have to support her and trust life philosophy and and believe. Listen, I believe as human beings, we have a lot of dominion and power, and we do invite and create certain things in our lives.

But I do believe it's an overall soul path that exists for us, that those difficult times that do come into your life where it does happen is actually like meant to happen for you to understand yourself more and grow through it and become greater. Because I believe that we all are here to reach our higher selves. If we were writing a story or a script, it's like, okay, this person has come to this story to go through these things so that they can come out the hero. And the hero is not perfect, but the hero has been through things and you've seen them overcome and they have all the qualities that make them a hero now. But the dope thing about being a hero in the way we talking about is those qualities

are just like being able to love yourself, being considerate of others, being aware and conscious of things, being socially responsible. Like those are some of the attributes of the hero that I'm talking about once you go through these life steps in this story that gets you to that level. I know it seems difficult because I mean, within just like a week I was at a book signing and I met this woman.

She was disabled because she was in a car crash hit by a drunk driver. I couldn't help but feel for her. This beautiful woman that I know like years ago, she was in this car crash with her child. Her child made it through and is not like disabled, but she was and she was working from her chair, moving it around. And I just couldn't help but think, man,

like I know that at times she had to, has to go back and think like man this happened four years ago before that I was walking and I was just a person that was walking and had these abilities and now she doesn't and I know her why would be even more difficult to find out why but it might even be harder to overcome and be like, yeah, this is the reason why and my character is stronger. But I would pray and hope that she was even able to find out the why in that and overcoming to the extent

where she is able to live a life that she feels is happy and full. I hope the things that we talk about and how we share these thoughts are seeds to help people become that. Agreed. Coming up, Common talks about his new book, which is called, And Then We Rise,

his relationship with food, the body, the mind, and the soul, the positive impact of therapy in his life, and what his meditation practice looks like. I'm Afua Hirsch. I'm Peter Frankipan. And in our podcast, Legacy, we explore the lives of some of the biggest characters in history.

This season we're exploring the life of Bob Marley. He managed to rise from a childhood of poverty in colonial Jamaica to global stardom, becoming an influential pioneer of reggae and Rastafari. His music was and is extraordinarily popular, but who was the man behind the amazing music and lyrics? Peter, I love Bob Marley. I feel so connected to his legacy in multiple ways. I really can't wait to get into his life

because I feel like he's one of those people that everybody can sing along to, but very few really know who he was. His music I grew up with, but I want to know more about what formed him and how did he manage to fit so much into such a tragically short life? Follow Legacy Now wherever you get your podcasts

or binge entire seasons early and ad free on Wandery Plus. Go deeper and get more to the story from Wandery's top history podcasts, including American Scandal, American History Tellers, and Black History for Real. Alice and Matt here from British Scandal. Matt, if we had a bingo card, what would be on there? Oh, compelling storytelling,

egotistical white men men and dubious humour. If that sounds like your cup of tea, you will love our podcast British Scandal, the show where every week we bring you stories from this green and not always so pleasant land. We've looked at spies, politicians, media magnates, a king, no one is safe. And knowing our country, we won't be out of a job anytime soon. Follow British Scandal wherever you listen to your book. There are four areas in the book, the food, the body, the mind, and the soul. If you're up for it, I'd love to walk through these in brief and people should go read the book.

But when you talk about food, are you a vegetarian or even a vegan? Yeah, I'm a vegan at this point. I took it step by step. Like I said, I ate everything. And then I decided to remove pork from my diet. And then I removed beef. And I saw how I felt. It didn't have to do with any other books that I read or what others had told me. I was like, others had told me, I was like, man, I feel strong. I feel clear. I could even listen to records that I made from back then and listen to records that I make now and hear how much less mucus is in my vocals.

I just saw the results and I just chose to continue to live that lifestyle. And listen, when I started eating vegan, the foods weren't that good. You weren't getting that delicious vegan meal. But I made the adjustments because I knew it was what I wanted for my life. I knew it would take this type of discipline to get to where I wanted to be in life. And I saw what it was benefiting my life in other ways. And I love food. At times I would go back to fish,

maybe after 10 years of being a vegan, I went back to eating fish, and then I just went back to vegan maybe five years ago. Talking about this only because it's really about awareness and just deciding to put good things into your body. Being a vegan is not for everybody. You have to choose what's right for your body,

physically and for your life. Water is always gonna be good. Vegetables is always gonna be good. If you can remove white sugar from your diet, that's always good. Any doctor, Western Eastern will tell you that eating fruits and vegetables are gonna help benefit you.

And that doesn't mean you have to take out everything else. My belief is to just start learning and be aware and just take one step at a time. Even drinking more water a day is helpful. And I do believe that foods affect our emotional well-being, our preventative towards diseases, and can help heal when you're dealing with diseases. I'll give you a brief example. I have a cousin who is in Chicago who was dealing with lupus and she was close to death.

And her doctor who had been working with her throughout this time told her all the medicines she had given her. She said, listen, I need you to eat a raw diet for a month. Three weeks later, after just eating raw foods, non-cooked foods, they could barely detect the lupus. The lupus had gone so loaded, like they could barely detect it.

And she was like, man, that changed my life. I mean, she's not eating raw every day now, but she understood the power of what the foods could do because it was the foods She didn't change her medicine or anything else Hmm So you're not trying to give readers a specific program you're just saying look you should care about this and

Follow what your body's telling you when you eat clean That's it simple is that I provided in the book because I had access to nutritionists and healthy chefs. I provided from chef Lauren Vonderpool, some things like juices you can make, foods you can eat, protein shakes. Just provided some of those things, but it's exactly what you said. Just eat clean, be aware and see how you feel and what about for the body what are you recommending in this part of the book the body and I want to say the reason why I did these four pillars is because they are truly all connected and for the body I just am suggesting some form of exercise. For a long time I was vegan, but I wasn't exercising.

That actually was cool, but it didn't get me to the highest level. And I'm believing the highest level of being. Highest level is like a more consistent happiness in itself. What I found out, and it was only because I was given an opportunity to be in my first film and I needed to bulk up a little bit. So I started working out.

I realized every day I worked out, I had less stress and I just felt like happy about things. And I also looked at it and realized that it was also a way of just taking care of myself. Whatever I went into that gym with that morning, it wasn't on my mind heavy while I was working out. And even when I finished, I kind of had a different perspective,

not that it was gone, but I just had a little bit of a different perspective, because endorphins is real. And when you get those workouts in, it's real. Now listen, when I say body, it's also like loving your body too. That's part of it. And working out, if your workouts are a walk, let it be that.

I mean, I was talking to a naturopath doctor who was like, from the time I had COVID, I was dealing with brain fog. And she was telling me, man, go take some walks. That helps your brain. I was like, what? She said, yes. So if it's a walk, I've been walking more than I ever have in life. I used to look at elders and see them walking and be like, man, that's what you do when you get old.

And then I was like, nah, I'm doing it now. Whether I'm in that age group or not, I'm just doing it because it's something that's like healthy for me and it helps my mind too. So the body has to do with that aspect of not only movement, but it's also loving your body too. You said they're all connected and you mentioned the mind, That's the third pillar.

You're pretty open about going to therapy. If you're comfortable, can you say a little bit more about why therapy has been so helpful to you? Well, therapy has been super beneficial because I found myself in situations, relationships, especially where I was repeating the same thing. relationships, especially where I was repeating the same thing. I would be in a cycle of fear at times, lack of commitment at times, things that I just wasn't able to fulfill, like a happy, full relationship, because I wasn't my full self, because I had my own fears and own traumas that I didn't know I was carrying with me.

We like to call it baggage. I had my own fears and own traumas that I didn't know I was carrying with me. We like to call it baggage. I had that baggage. I was actually trying to buy property in Brooklyn when my relative would just talk to me. I was going through this difficult time and she would talk to me and she was a licensed therapist and I would like leave those viewings and be like, man, I feel better. And she said, you want to do any sessions? And I was like, yeah, we should do some sessions. I started going to therapy with her and we started identifying things that was causing me to repeat these cycles.

Causing me to fear relationships and causing me to distance myself and causing me to dim my light We started working on it and with that consciousness of it I was able to start building and being better and working through My issues and not putting the blame on that person or not running away But actually dealing with it and it and within that therapy it also made me dig deeper to Things that I had tucked away that had happened to me when I was younger. I ended up having to deal with so that I could be better, and it actually gave me a more empowered and happier life because I dealt with those issues.

And listen, I get on the phone sometimes with my therapist. I was probably on the phone with her last week, so it's not something that you're just doing and you're done with it. You may continue to go back when you need it. It's beneficial. Anybody who is living and has been through any traumas or even if they don't recognize it or just find themselves in a rut repeating things in their lives that they don't want, I truly strongly suggest it because it helps you just in different aspects of dealing with people and dealing with yourself and figuring out why you in this mood when nothing seemed

like something happened or why did I take, why did this situation when this person said this to me, like hurt me so much and get me so angry? Therapy allows you to resolve those things in ways and get to your best self and not have things weigh on you so angry. Therapy allows you to resolve those things in ways and get to your best self and not have things weigh on you so much. So I've really strongly suggested and within the mind also meditation has been something that has helped me also. And I know you're a Buddhist so your meditation may be even stronger like as as far as, I don't meditate long.

I meditate for a little bit of time and it feels great. But it's whatever works for you. But the mind is important because you could be like, yeah, I'm about to work my body and blah, blah, blah. But if your mind isn't there and your body is not truly being fulfilled at the highest level, and being maximized at the highest level. Your body is actually following your mind.

That's why you hear athletes talk about their mental process being as important, if not more important than the physical. So your mind has to be there and that's why that connection is important. You say you don't meditate for long. What does your practice look like? My practice is me getting to a quiet place, breathing deeply, putting a light into my mind and seeing that light and setting intentions.

And sometimes just trying to let thoughts come to my mind and remove them, go. Come to my mind and go. And trying to get my mind still and quiet. That's what my meditation contains and that's what it's about. And I've learned that from the different places that I've meditated at and people that I've meditated with.

What works for me? Because I've been in a meditation where, I don't think there's nothing wrong with it, but I've been in it and I fell asleep because it was like 45 minutes and I just couldn't do it. But I probably needed to sleep. But the point is, I found what works for me and mine is really about getting my mind still and not letting my mind race and

setting those intentions Not that you need my approval But it sounds great and my meditation teachers this 80 year old or almost 80 year old guy named Joseph Goldstein and one of his Expressions is whatever works and I love you found what works for you. Yes. Coming Up, Common talks about the evolution of vulnerability in hip hop and also in his own life and his own work. And finally, his relationship with spirituality, what he means when he talks about spirituality.

In April 1912, the luxury ocean liner RMS Titanic embarked on her maiden voyage from Southampton, England en route to New York. Spirits were high, but as the ship sailed into the frigid waters of the North Atlantic, danger was lurking. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondry's podcast American History Tellers. We take you to the events, times, and people that shaped America and Americans, our values, our struggles, and our dreams. In our latest series, we'll take you to the early hours of April 15, 1912, when the Titanic strikes an iceberg, 2,200 passengers and crew are left scrambling for the lifeboats and their lives. Follow American History Tellers on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can binge this season of American History Tellers on the Titanic early and ad free right now on Wondery Plus. What's up guys? It's your girl Kiki and my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you, it's so good. And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay? Every episode I bring on a friend

and have a real conversation. And I don't mean just friends, I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on. So follow, watch, and listen to, baby, this is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcasts. I can't help but think, you know,

as we're talking about the evolution of hip hop, which I know we talked about earlier, but it's on my mind because I just watched this documentary, as I said, about Run DMC, which I recommend is really good. Yeah, I have to see that. I run DMC was one of the groups, if not the group that made me want to really get into hip hop. They were like what we talked about earlier about defining that greatness and just expressing that, they brought that to us.

And to see these young brothers, these young black men just expressing themselves in that way and the music was so good and they were so cool and I related to them, they were it for me. Them and LL, Cool J. So yeah, I got to check the documentary. LL is in the documentary and they talk a little bit about the rivalry between Run and LL Cool J. And, you know, I mean, they were a huge group for me too. I mean, I'm 52 and so, you

know, Sugarhill Gang came out when I was in grade school and then Run DMC, Sucker MCs and It's Tricky and all those songs songs that really hold up to this day. They were dropping when I was in junior high and early high school. And so it was great to go back and hear their story from this vantage point, as their grownups telling it retrospectively. But just back to you, I mean, those early days of hip hop,

the art form really was about shouting from the rooftops about how great you were as an MC in all aspects of your life. And now we're at a point where Kendrick Lamar can rap about meditation. You're on this podcast talking about therapy and meditation. And I don't know, to you, does that speak to the evolution in this great American musical genre?

Yes, I definitely believe it speaks to the evolution and maturation of people who've grown up in hip hop, people who've come from the environments that hip hop first was rooted in, people who've actually had the blessing of being exposed to new things. The fact that Kendrick will rap about meditation and I've rapped about therapy, and so many other artists also have talked about that and talked about self-love. And these are things that when we first started, it was, I guess, for our own confidence and what we needed at the time was to feel like we are great and we got it all together. At certain times, you need that.

When I hear about people from the 60s and 70s in those movements, they were saying black is beautiful and black power because they needed to feel powerful and they needed to feel beautiful. Like, so sometimes you just had to say it to yourself to feel it and to know it. I call it the Muhammad Ali theory. Like, he was saying things and he brought them into fruition. They manifested, but he was saying them and he said them because he believed it, but he also said it to affirm his belief and probably put it out there. Hip-hop, we needed that early on, just as young black and Latino kids coming from where we came from. We needed that. And now we know, okay, that's an aspect of us. And this is black, white, Latino, Asian, Native American,

we all need to know like, okay, we have these great aspects about us and greatness is the capacity that we have, but we also have been through some things. So we need to talk about those things. And what are the ways to get to your higher self and your best self and greatness and joy and happiness? And that's what I feel hip hop is devolved to some of it, some of the aspects of it.

And that's what I'm discussing in the book, and then we rise. Yeah, speaking of the book, there's a quote in the book where you're talking about how bragging comes from self-doubt. And there might have been a compensatory element to some of the bragging we saw early in hip hop and the fact that people can be more open and real now speaks to big changes in the culture I think. Yeah because I was just having this conversation with Sabrina who I work with and we were talking about you don't feel one thing all the time like it's just not always positive and you're just

not always happy and you're just not always feeling like, man, I'm confident. That is not the way we are as humans. And I think hip hop, early on, started talking about things that were bothering us, things that we were feeling strong about, things that we saw in society that we didn't like. So I can think about some of the things that Tribe Called Quest talked about,

some of the things that Brand Nubians talked about, KRS One discussed it, like were real things that people were experiencing. Even Pete Rock and C.L. Smooth, they reminisce over you. That's about family and growing up in this community and trying to figure out who you are and honoring someone who passed. So we were able to get somewhat vulnerable,

but now it's at a point where we can discuss some of the issues that we hadn't talked about, like molestation. That's something that I talked about in a song. I never would have thought about doing that. I didn't even like acknowledge that that had happened in my life. But it was because of music and me and maturing and growing that I felt the freedom to express it. As the immortal words of Biggie, they live for so long, we never thought that hip hop would take it this far.

It's not only just that hip hop is such a big phenomenon and it's just like has moved the world in so many ways, but it's also the evolution of who and what we are expressing and it's what you're saying, Dan. I have a nine-year-old son. I played him Biggie about a year ago and he said it sounded too old fashioned, which was a really devastating moment in my life.

Yeah, maybe, hopefully he might come back around when he's 17, 18, who knows? But I'll tell you this, my daughter, she had to be like eight years old and I was playing Lauryn Hill. Her and her friend, I was playing Lauryn Hill. Her and her friends, I was taking them ice skating and she was like, hey, can you play some music that was made after 1997?

Because that's when she was born. Can you play some music that was made after that? And I was like, man, what is going on? But now she knows that Lauryn Hill is one of the greatest and she will come to me like, she knows Pete Rock and C.O. Smooth or just, I'm like, wow, okay. So it's hope for your son out there, you know,

that Biggie may reach him later on on the path. Speaking of Biggie, I'm friendly with his son, who's a lot younger than I am. And I went with CJ to a performance at Lincoln Center recently where they had a classical music rendition of Biggie's songs. And it was unbelievable. People were losing their minds. It was quite moving actually. Let me tell you, Notorious B.I.G., Biggie Smalls is one of the greatest artists of all time and for him to do what he did in two albums, he's one of the consummate MCs

because he had a flow of voice, lyrical content, cleverness, he could perform well, he knew how to make hit songs, he had it all. I donness. He could perform well. He knew how to make hit songs. He had it all. I don't check some of those boxes. So it's like Biggie is that guy that just, man, he's definitely in my favorites.

And I love that when you get to hear hip hop, because I've been doing some of that myself, is like performing, doing symphony shows and performing with orchestras in different cities. And I love when you get to hear the music in a different tone and different contexts. And it's just like people sitting in an orchestra hall and they listening to hip hop, but it's like with this whole big orchestra and it just sounds beautiful. So I can imagine Biggie's music just being phenomenal. It was really amazing. Okay, so before I let you go,

let's talk about the fourth pillar, the soul. What do you mean by that when you say the soul? It's kind of hard to describe because you say, man, my soul feels this. It's not a like practical concrete, tangible thing that you're describing. But in my journey of being well and being my best self, the soul has been one of the most important things because I'm really referring to spirituality and tapping into your spirit. And for me,

I'm a believer in a higher power. I believe in God and I believe God exists in all of us. And I believe God created the heavens and the earth. And I believe we're reflections of the most high and our souls quest is to reach the highest level and become the highest self as we own this planet. And my soul's journey has been dealing with opening up to different things that I had experienced and dealing with the difficulties,

but also evolving through it to become stronger and sharing those things through art, through acting, through music, through speaking. And I feel like that's part of a soul's purpose to do what you are destined to do on this planet. And it's important for us to find out what that is. As you talked about, like, you've been an anchor for a long time and you delivered what you delivered, but you were there for that for a reason. But doing this now is probably fulfilling you in a different way in your soul and also

affecting other people in a different way. And I think for me, the soul is about tapping into that purpose, into your divine self, and being able to offer that in the highest level for yourself, but to also inspire and give to others. I talked about it for me coming through my spiritual journey. I'm a believer in God. Like I said, it didn't just stop in like, okay, I was raised going to church. It was like, no, I believe in God and I believe God is working through books of Buddhism and

practices in Buddhism. I believe God is working in Islam. God is working through books of Buddhism and practices in Buddhism. I believe God is working in Islam. God is working in Judaism. God is working in Christianity. I just believe that God is working through us. We have these different paths to get to the most high, but we know when we there. Like I could sit there and be like, I'm a Christian and I could be right there.

You could say, man, I'm a Buddhist. And somebody could be like, man, I'm a Muslim. And we all could be vibrating on the same level, talking about the same things, sharing in the same values and have beliefs and treating people with love. And I believe we're all serving the same God is my belief. I want to say one thing before I let you go which is you mentioned something earlier that I didn't acknowledge which is that you had been molested when you were younger. I just want to say I'm

sorry that happened to you and I think it's very impressive that you're able to talk about it now and rap about it now so sorry to let that go by unacknowledged. Yeah, well, thank you for saying that. To be honest, I had tucked that away in my life for a long time, and it only came up because I was doing a film that was dealing with that. And then I was in the scene rehearsing and I was with the actress Laura Dern,

and I was like, wait, this has happened to me. I had to revisit it for myself, and then I went through these different moments of sitting down, having sessions, talking about it with therapists, but then at a resort I was at, I just had a reading and I brought it up. I had to go through my own process and healing,

and the music was something that I just decided to write about it because it was something that you don't hear a lot of us share, especially as men, as black men, as people. And I remember being at book signings, because I talked about it in my previous book, and so many men came up to me and said, man, thank you for sharing that and speaking on that because they had experienced it too. I only talk about it because I believe it's something that I'm okay with talking about

and I want to be able to stop the cycle. So I want others to know and be able to heal and be like, oh, it's okay for me to share this in a place where I'm sharing it because I want to stop the cycle and I want to heal. I have a lot of respect for that. And I want to respect your time by letting you go, given that I've held you long. But thank you very much for doing this. And the book is called, And Then We Rise.

I really appreciate your time. Thank you, Dan. It's been a wonderful time talking with you. Thanks again to Common. Great to have him on. Don't forget to check out my weekly newsletter. You can sign up at danharris.com. Every week I sum up my biggest takeaways from the show and then also list three cultural recommendations, you know, books, TV shows, movies, things like that.

Danharris.com. you can also buy merch there. Before I go, I want to thank everybody who worked so hard on this show. Our producers are Tara Anderson, Caroline Keenan, and Eleanor Vasili. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our production manager. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer. DJ Cashmere is our managing producer, and Nick Thorburn of the band Islands, who actually just put out a great new album, which

you should check out. Nick Rodarthene, play us out, Nick. If you like 10% happier, and I hope you do, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. Welcome to the Offensive Line. You guys, on this podcast, we're going to make some picks, talk some sh**, and hopefully make you some money in the process. I'm your host, Annie

Agar. So here's how this show's going to work, okay? We're going to run through the weekly slate of NFL and college football matchups, breaking them down into very serious categories like no offense. No offense, Travis Kelce, but you got to step up your game if Pat Mahomes is saying the Chiefs need to have more fun this year. We're also handing out a series of awards and making picks for the top storylines surrounding the world of football. Awards like the He May Have a Point Award for the wide receiver that's most justifiably

bitter. Is it Brandon Iuke, T. Higgins, or Devontae Adams? Plus on Thursdays we're doing an exclusive bonus episode on Wondery+, where I share my fantasy football picks ahead of Thursday Night Football and the weekend's matchups. Your fantasy league is as good as locked in. Follow the offensive line on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can access bonus episodes and listen ad-free right now by joining Wondery+.