Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris - Ted Danson On: Meditation, Marriage, Grief, Joy, And Doing Shrooms With The Cast Of “Cheers”

Episode Date: June 28, 2024

A self-described “silly man” tells us about what’s really important in life. Ted Danson has an acting career spanning over four decades. He rose to prominence in the 1980s with his iconic portrayal of Sam Malone in the long-running sitcom "Cheers," earning him critical acclaim and multiple awards. Danson's charisma and acting prowess have since led him to a myriad of diverse roles, including his Emmy-nominated performances in "Damages" and "Fargo." Most recently, he starred in the existential comedy “The Good Place.” Beyond his acting career, Danson is also celebrated for his environmental activism and philanthropy, demonstrating a commitment to making a positive impact beyond the screen. His next venture? A podcast with his old “Cheers” buddy, Woody Harrelson.In this episode we talk about:meditationmarriagehypochondriagriefwhat he means when he calls himself a joy junkiewhat he learned from being on the TV show “The Good Place”and that time he did shrooms with his fellow cast members on “Cheers”Sign up for Dan’s weekly newsletter hereFollow Dan on social: Instagram, TikTokTen Percent Happier online bookstoreSubscribe to our YouTube ChannelOur favorite playlists on: Anxiety, Sleep, Relationships, Most Popular EpisodesFull Shownotes: https://www.tenpercent.com/tph/podcast-episode/ted-dansonAdditional Resources:Download the Ten Percent Happier app today: https://10percenthappier.app.link/installSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to 10% happier early and ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. This is the 10% happier podcast. I'm Dan Harris. Hello, everybody. Back when I was a TV journalist, I very often found interviewing celebrities to be a titanic pain in the ass. Celebrities in my experience were often guarded or defensive or hiding behind a wall of publicists. Thus far, however, on this show, we have been incredibly lucky. All the celebrities who've come on here

have been open and game. It's maybe the case, I guess, that there's some self-selection thing going on here where anybody who's willing to come on this show is gonna be ready to go for it. In any event, of all the celebrity interviews we've done here, Ted Danson is a standout for me. As you're about to hear, he's just incredibly funny and unguarded and interesting. all the celebrity interviews we've done here. Ted Danson is a standout for me.

As you're about to hear, he's just incredibly funny and unguarded and interesting. This is a wide ranging free flowing interview where we cover meditation, marriage, hypochondria, grief, what he means when he calls himself a joy junkie, what he learned from being on the TV show, The Good Place, and the time he did shrooms with his fellow cast members on Cheers.

Speaking of Cheers, Ted Danson has a new podcast called Where Everybody Knows Your Name. His co-host, at least occasionally, is the great actor Woody Harrelson, who was also, of course, on that show. A little bit more about Ted before we dive in here on this show. Ted Danson is a TV legend, as you know.

He's been on Cheers and The Good Place, of course. My favorite performances of his were actually on dramatic shows such as Damages and Fargo, two awesome shows. Just a few more tidbits here. Ted Danson has won a few Emmys and Golden Globes, and he's been married to his wife, the actress Mary Steenburgen, since 1995. Ted Danson coming up. Listening on Audible helps your imagination soar. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, new ways of thinking. Listening can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits,

and ultimately your overall well-being. Audible has the best selection of audiobooks without exception, along with popular podcasts and exclusive Audible originals all in one easy app. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free 30-day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.ca. Ted Danson, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. I'm right next door to Giddy. I'm very excited to see where this goes. I'm the one who's next door to Giddy. I mean I've admired watching you in so many of your shows over the year.

I'm thinking about Damages, Fargo, The Good Place, Cheers, of course. So it's really cool to meet you face to face, albeit digitally. Thank you very much. One of the preoccupations of this show, especially its host, is meditation. And I read a quote from you once

where you said that meditation is a lifesaver. So I'm just curious, like, what do you mean by that? And I'd love to hear a little bit more about like the flavor of meditation you do, et cetera, et cetera. All right, so right off the bat, you're gonna meet Ted the Dilettante because I have been, I took the, you know, TM training 30 years ago.

I am so erratic with actual sitting down to meditate that I don't even know if I can claim it anymore. I did TM, I did a period in my life where it was basically the silence of the mind. And formal meditation isn't that big a part of my life anymore. I don't mean that that's by choice. I just think that consistency is not something I'm really good at. But I wouldn't say that I go through my day or my life without trying to silence my mind and have a conversation that allows me to be real and present and in the moment.

But I think it's more of a whatever works in that moment I will grab whether it's talking to my wife Mary or you know even breathing you know I'll grab anything that I may have bumped into over the years to get in that moment. I'd love to hear more about what's in that tool set. Let's start with Mary. Why is talking to her helpful? Because she first off loves me, has a great sense of humor, has witnessed me so completely that my reflection, the reflection I get back from her is pretty kind and accurate and doesn't hold back any punches. They're not punches, but they are, you know,

this is what you do every time you go to work, Ted, you spin out. When you're starting a new job, you become physically neurotic, you have some new ailment, and this time it's really, really bad until you start working. So she sees me completely and is able to ground me,

but it comes out of such a loving place, even though I try to go, no, no, no, you're wrong. I do know she's got a pretty good fix on me. I do know she's got a pretty good fix on me. You have said, and I'm sure you've done so many interviews over the years that I'm now going to be quoting back to you in a way that you may or may not remember, but you've said in the past that when you're stressed, your wife will sometimes remind you not to be the small Ted.

What does that mean? Probably, I mean, if you sit there and break down all of life, you know, it's either love or it's fear. Every moment is either you being in love or in fear. It's probably fearful Ted. Don't be fearful Ted. You know, sorry, I'm going to ramble,

but here's some meditative thoughts or thoughts that bring me back to, you know, as present as I possibly can be, especially when I'm coming from a place of fear is my favorite phrase to myself, and it can't be glib, it has to be real, and then you die. So what the hell are you doing, wasting your time being fearful or worrying or whatever? You know, you will die. Can I jump around a little bit?

Dude, you can, you have free reign to do whatever you want. I'll follow you wherever you wanna go. Great, okay. So one of the big kind of transformational moments as death is want to do is being with my mother at 89 who chose to come home instead of going into a hospital and getting tubes and stuff because she had an ammonia she couldn't shake so she came home to purposefully consciously died leave her body and we had two weeks together for that process. And I remember

at some point I would have the night shift. My sister who lived next door would do the day shift and I would do the night shift. So I'd be with my mom, especially when her body really started to shut down so that she really wasn't present anymore or capable of having any kind of conversation or eye contact. And there were about two or three days like that. And I remember sitting there going, once again from a dilettante point of view, I have skimmed the top of, you know, a lot of spiritual philosophical practices. And I remember thinking, because death is so intensely real, that I came to the conclusion, you know, and it wasn't even

an intellectual thought, it was just this overwhelming in that moment of watching your mother leave her body, I don't know. I realized I do not know. I may have had all these comforting spiritual, religious, philosophical thoughts and explored them to some degree because it gave me comfort. I just got down to, I don't know. She may, pardon me, my mother may know or she's about to know, I don't know. She may, pardon me, my mother may know, or she's about to know, I don't. And it was so kind of liberating. It's not that I don't enjoy that conversation, the philosophical spiritual conversation, but it's almost that I've gotten down to, Ted,

do the best you can, try to be a little better tomorrow than you are today. Try to be kind and nurturing. You know, kind of simple things that if you really do try to do that kind nurturing, you know, thing, you have to be present. You have to not live in fear. You have to live in love for that to be genuine. And that to me is like very simplified by life. So if you're stuck, if small Ted is stuck in some fear, maybe in hypochondria, I heard a reference to that earlier. That's my wife's word.

I just think of it more as a deep curiosity of what's going on in my body. Okay, so small Ted is overly curious about the mechanisms in his knee or hip or or worried about starting a new role or whatever it is. Yeah. Dropping the phrase into the mind of, and then you die, can put things in perspective. Totally. And it removes any sense of having to control, it removes fear, you know, why are you being fearful about this moment

when the truth is, you know, at some point you're gonna die. So lighten up, relax, do the best you can. And I think it makes me end up loving myself a little bit more in that moment as opposed to criticizing myself because I'm fearful and need to figure this out so I don't die.

I think the comma after any kind of fearful thought is so I don't die. So when you really do let that sink in, I think it, for me, it's this huge relief and I get to enjoy being in this moment that I'm in, irregardless whether it's a good, happy, bad, sad. So there's that. I'm gonna die. The other thing is this phrase which sounds, will only have meaning for me probably, which is, you know, it's kind of this wake-up call

where I realize that, wait a minute, these last moments or hours or what, or sometimes days I've been unconscious a little bit and just doing things by rote, is, Ted, this is your life. This moment is your life. This moment is your life. What are you doing being fearful or unconscious or whatever? This, you know, this gift of life was, it's given you. This is it. Whether or not you believe in reincarnation or anything, I think it's more useful for me at least to go, no, this is your life right now. So wake up, pay attention, and enjoy and say thank you. Let me put that into the mix. Gratitude is also something I find very,

very grounding. If I'm fearful or angry or whatever, it's usually a hundred, well no, it's a hundred percent because I've lost any sense of humility and gratitude. So that's another thing. This is your life. Say thank you and move on with some sort of joy in your heart. I don't know, man. None of this sounds dilettante-ish to me.

Well, no, it's true, but I'm not an academic. I'm not somebody who can, well, like I said, consistency is not, I'm a dilettante when it comes to consistency, I guarantee you that. The efficacy of these phrases, and then you die, this is your life, and then just the concept of gratitude, have you gotten better at this as you've gotten older when you know? Mortality is less theoretical. Yes

100% I think I used to do all the spiritual stuff to be good Ted To be the Ted that I know I'm supposed to be you know My mother my mother you have to bring parents into this too. My mother was great at You have to bring parents into this too. My mother was great at everything above the line in life that deals with nurturing, positivity, kindness, da-da-da-da. Petty, jealous, angry, dark, really bad at it. And that's part of life, you know. So she would struggle not to have to admit, deal with, look at that dark side of herself. This is my point of view of her from my, you know, being her child.

I'm sure she's looking down going, hey, you are so wrong. But anyway, that was my impression of my mother. So I kind of went that way. My father sometimes would get angry and blustery, not super angry, just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, that kind of thing, and wouldn't deal with emotions and emotionally he was out the back door kind

of thing. So I'd looked at my mom and went, okay, she's the way to go. So I have always had trouble dealing with the dark, negative, you know, it takes me a while to get to that. And that's someplace where Mary, you know, she likes to call me her foe, F-A-U-X, Christ. I'm always trying to be Christ-like, failing miserably and just scooting right over the surface of, no, actually I'm really pissed off at you, Mary.

I'm really angry at you. I never say that. How we know as a couple that I'm mad at her, she'll say, Tetta, you angry at me? And I go say that. How we know as a couple that I'm mad at her, she'll say, Tetta, you angry at me? And I go, no. Then we both go, oh, yeah, clearly I am. I don't know how I got off on that tangent, but there you are.

I think there's a term that might apply spiritual bypass. Like if you don't wanna deal with the dark stuff, you just go right to faux Christ life. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. These are all silly stories, but my daughter, we have the most amazing family in that we get to all hang with each other and we didn't fuck it up so badly that they didn't want to be with us later in life. We were so blessed. We got to hang with them all the time.

Anyway, she went to some sort of, and I don't know, so I don't want to diminish by saying psychic or medium or something, but somebody in that area. And she said, you know, Kate, my daughter, said, your father walked with Christ. And she just went, oh, Lord, do I tell him this because he's insufferable? Or will it be a great family joke? But my impression of me walking with Christ is about 30 yards behind, going, hey, wait for me, fellas. Anyhow, I'm such a silly man. Here's another thing that is a great meditative in this area is the ability to laugh at yourself

and love that Mary laughs at me. You know, to find ourselves deeply silly and at the same as very deep people. I just love that combination, you know. Getting older can be not always comfortable, so being able to have a sense of humor about it I think is, I hope I never lose that. No one knows what their physical journey is towards the end of your life. So I'm sure there are times where, you know, if people are riddled with pain that a sense of humor is probably the last thing available.

But anyway, I hope I never lose that. Can I just do one more thing? This whole conversation, by the way, you can just keep under the category of full Christ because I am trying to present the most enlightened version of Ted as I possibly can. We'll try to unearth some of the stuff that's been spiritually bypassed. Yeah, please. You know, you're just talking about the humor in the latter stages of life.

I just remembering a story of my dad had a stroke a few years ago and I FaceTimed him in the hospital with my brother and he was having trouble speaking, my dad wasn't and he kind of took a while to say what he was gonna say. We asked, you know, how are you doing? And he said, I did this because I wanted to remind Matt, my little brother, to exercise.

And I just thought, all right, yeah, he's still in there. I mean, if he's still giving my brother shit, then he's still in there. And so I think humor can go all the way, pain not withstanding. Yes. The other thing I'd say about that is, you know, my job here on this show is to interview

present company excluded, the greatest spiritual masters in the world. And although, you know, you strike me as not half bad, but a lot of time I'm talking to people like the Dalai Lama or great meditation teachers and the common denominator among all of the great ones is, and there's just no exceptions to this rule, is they have a sense of humor. You can't look at your mind in an extensive way without laughing because it is ridiculous.

Well, it's such a tough road to walk being human in that, yes, you are special. You are incredibly special. And you're not. That's a tough one. You better have a sense of humor because you're always kind of failing. That, and we have these bodies that are designed for planned obsolescence. And yes, you know, the wheels are are gonna come off in one way or another and that's likely to be unpleasant.

Yeah. I think we're all fertilizer basically. Exactly. Yeah. I don't know your exact age, but are there difficulties for you with getting older? 76. Sure.

So far, I will say that they are, they're things that aren't life threatening, they're uncomfortable, and to deal with them, I have to do all the things I should do to have a healthy life. I have, for example, psoriatic arthritis. So, you know, trying to eat a diet that reduces inflammation

is good for my entire body, but it's also good for that one area of my life that's uncomfortable. That's where I'm at at the moment. Can I throw in another, sorry, I hope I'm not, you wanna ask that again and I'll try to answer it more fully before I scoot off in a different direction? It's totally up to you. We have no rules here.

This is totally freewheeling, so I can ask it if you'd prefer or you can... God, you sound like a really good therapist, by the way. I have this fear that in a minute you're going to say, okay, our time is up. I'll see you next week. No, wait, wait. I just got to my father. I, at 70 years old, met Jane Fonda, who was at that point 80. My wife, Mary Steenburgen, was about to work on a film with her.

And at 70, I think I was starting to look for a, look out the window and go, I better find a nice soft place to land. I think I need to start preparing for slowing down and getting all my marbles in. And I met her and she was like pedal to the metal. 80 years old, she is the most remarkably interested in life, committed to trying to make a change,

make things better. She works a 12 hour day day on, you know, in her case she was working on Frankie and Grace and then literally run Friday evening to get on a bus with a bunch of ladies to go, you know, help some group raise money to do the right thing in life. You know, she's non-stop and it was like, yeah, Ted, yes, don't do that. Don't prepare for, you know, yes, you're gonna die, but don't prepare for it. Prepare for going, you know,

making as much of a difference as you can, for as being as kind and nurturing. You know, stay alive. Work on, you know, being ferociously alive, and don't plan in advance of your death some way of cushioning that. So Jane Fonda, gotta put her high on my list of making a difference in my life. Yeah, she seems incredible. So the reminder, Ted, you're gonna die, the execution interpretation there is subtle because it's supposed to wake you up out of rumination or petty grievances or fear, but it's not supposed to make you resigned and unambitious. Correct. The opposite. You've been given this life. I think

that becomes clear with older age that you're not entitled to this life, that this is a gift. And so I think realization that it's a gift and that it will have some end point, then be grateful, be productive, be kind, be nurturing. I think that's the only thing I can fix on purpose as a human being is full of suffering life. I mean, my level of suffering is a joke to talk about compared to what, you know, turn on the news, what is going on around the world.

There's so much suffering in the world. There's so much joy and all of that stuff. But there's also a great deal of suffering. You know, your job in life is to make people feel better about themselves. You know, your job in life is not to add to suffering. Your job is to try to make this journey comfortable for others, you know. I love being an actor because actors have been trained, if they're trained well, to pay attention to the other person. If we're acting together, I don't have this,

this is what I'm gonna do, and I'm gonna do it at you or on you. I wait until you, Dan, say something that makes me have to respond, so the focus is on you. And that's what produces a soaring acting moment, because you are out of yourself and into you, just you, you know, your acting partner. And like acting, you're only successful at best

50% of the time, you know. That should be our focus in life. Try to make things better for other people. There's this concept that has meant a lot to me. I got it from the Dalai Lama. Wise selfishness. So we're all selfish by nature, but if you design your life around being useful to other people, that is actually the highest form of selfishness because you're going to be happy.

Yes. I mean, just on simplistic level, my body feels better when it's full of joy and love, but joy, I love joy, I'm a joy junkie. And it doesn't mean you are blind to what's going on around you, but my body feels better. Sometimes in that chasing joy I will skip over the stuff that's hard and dark that needs to be tended to or looked at. So my reaching out to others, my trying to have a wonderful moment where the other person feels good about themself is pure selfish because it gives me me joy. Yeah, I agree with that. What's on the menu for you when you're to use your phrase chasing joy? I

Think to just put context around it. Like I think if I were you know, Ted in two minutes You're going to die. There's a part of me that would go I'm alright with that because I have experienced what it means to be truly human which is to be truly human, which is loving another person and experiencing their love for you. And Mary and I, for whatever reason, it was a long journey to get there separately and then we met each other. I was 45, she was 40. But when we experience love, it becomes this whirlwind that is heaven on earth, literally. And when we don't, if there's anger, it is like unplugging the electric cord. We both just collapse.

And it's usually when we're both in fear. If one of us is in fear, it's fine. The other one will go, it's okay, we're all right, don't worry, you're good. I get it, but we're good. If we're both in fear, then it's, no, no, you need to hear me and my fear. No, you need to hear my, you know, we become that person. But by and large, we live in a land of gratitude about how blessed we are that we found each other, and that we get to have this life of this whirlpool of love, you know. So that is my touchstone, I find, being real.

Everything else is really kind of intellectual, but that thing that is just so visceral, and to keep that going, you know, that circle of love, means you have to do a lot of hard stuff. You have to be real, you have to be honest. None of that comes naturally to me. You know, you have to be willing to tell the little truths and the horrible truths, and none of that comes naturally to me.

So, but having that touchstone of, this is what joy and love feels like. And when you don't do that and you unplug it, that's what fear and hopelessness feels like. And when you don't do that and you unplug it, that's what fear and hopelessness feels like. So I have this tangible touchstone in my life, which is my relationship with Mary. Just to put a fine point on it, I mean, you speak in very beautiful

and sometimes poetic terms about this marriage. You're not, however, saying, and you've been very clear about this, that it's somehow perfect and all rainbow-barfing unicorns sometimes poetic terms about this marriage, you're not, however, saying, and you've been very clear about this, that it's somehow perfect and all rainbow-barfing unicorns, that it's actually, it's work, and it pushes you into places that are deeply uncomfortable.

Yes, definitely. But I think there is truth in that you can bank trust and love and good feelings. You can bank it if you've had enough of it. You know, and there's a trust that, boy, it feels mean what you're saying to me right now and it really makes me mad. There's another part in my brain when we separate

and go and not walk out of the room, but when we're separate and we can think about this anger and fight that we're in the middle of or disagreement or something. There's a voice in my head that goes, Ted, do you really think that she doesn't love you? And it's like, no, yeah, she does. So yes, you constantly bump into things,

but you, I think we're very lucky to know how lucky we are so that you fight for it. Some part of you is you know, is willing to to be wrong, to be not right, to be, oh that was mean, yeah, I'm very capable of being mean. Wow, yeah. Oh, and also I think this little relationship tip, you'll be blessed if you find someone else to find that person who is willing to look at themselves as well. Because if you don't have that reciprocity

of self-examination, then you don't trust, you're not going to let your guard down and say, okay, really, I am an asshole and this is how, unless you know the other person will look at their stuff. We're very blessed with that and we have trust that that will happen. That feels really true. The theme of this conversation has,

as it is pretty much every conversation I have on the show, it has been, you know, what's in your toolbox for getting through this life. And I'm just wondering, based on everything we just discussed, what role, if any, does therapy play? Official, here's some money. Please talk to me and let me sort through stuff therapy. Yeah.

But well, actually unofficial too. Either one. Yeah. Yeah. Huge. I think one's brain is there to protect you. I think one's brain is there to protect you and sometimes it protects you from change because it feels threatening. So it's very hard I think to be self-aware all the time.

Sometimes I think you need help and I've been lucky to have some very bright therapists in my life guiding me through. Well, it's the same thing that Mary does for me, but there are times when it's best for me to do it with a therapist so that I can be purely selfish and just focus on me, you know, or she with a therapist and her. So yeah, I think it's a huge part,

it's been a huge part of my life, you know? Trying to think of what to say. Here's my hesitation. I had dark periods of my life, you know, trying to think of what to say. Here's my hesitation. I had dark periods in my life I'm not 100% sure I want to necessarily go into. There was a period in my life with my, not with Mary, but a previous relationship where I was a flat out liar and I had all sorts of rationale for it. So I needed a lot of help to go, wait, wait, let's stop and tell the truth. I remember I came back from a film and I remember thinking, and this was before I met Mary, I think if I hadn't done this work, which was all therapy at that point,

Mary would have just walked by me. She wouldn't, life would not have put each other on the same path. Because I really needed to start being truthful, self-aware, and understand where that, you know, lack of truthfulness came from. So I worked very hard for like a year and a half on myself. I mean, driving to clinics, driving to a therapist in Long Beach.

This was, most of my life was focused on wanting to change, not wanting to be this person anymore. It's interesting that you talk about this pretty intense phase of therapy. And I just, there's this expression that came to mind self knowledge is always bad news yeah yeah that's true that's why sometimes acknowledgement is so hard you know it's almost like oh please don't acknowledge me because I will turn around and step into a big pile of cosmic shit.

I tend to want to believe acknowledgement, which doesn't serve you always that well. So that must be especially tricky when you're famous. Yeah, and fun. You know? It is. I mean, the tricky part, I think, is sometimes it's not that you believe all the,

you know, pumped up stuff about yourself because after a while you get it. You know, I think the tricky part is to not beat yourself up for the dichotomy of what they think you are and what you think you are. I wish I could remember this story. I don't know if it was a Buddha story or what but It would be nice in life if you could you know if somebody said my god You're the most wonderful person in the world and just say thank you and know that that's about them and not about you Hmm, and if somebody says you're the biggest asshole in the world to be able to say thank you and know that that's not about you It's about them. You know, that you have this what is the word, balance in life.

It is tricky being a celebrity because you do believe it. I walk around and people, because I've been in comedies and and a lot of them have made people laugh and have a great time with other people laughing at something that I was part of. I walk in around with people saying, oh Ted, we love you, meaning we love that moment we shared with you. Oh Ted, I just, you know, thank you for the, you know, I get a lot of acknowledgement because of the exposure

of cheers and other things I've done. I used to deny it to Mary, you know, well you just love all that acknowledgement or this or whatever, you know, it was like, and I don't know if it was Mary, I think it was more me that I needed to not let this in. I changed my mind, I let it in. It's thank you, wow, what a wonderful way to walk through,

it may not be reflective the entire world, obviously, but thanks, it feels good. I get energized by people saying, I enjoyed what you did. So it's unreal on one level, and you'd be an idiot not to say thank you and enjoy it. I mean, in some ways it's a high-class problem, and still a problem in that, like you've got to learn how to relate to this thing

that is an unnatural Aspect of your life, but it's a fixed aspect of your life Right, but the and it is the truth. The truth is that it is about them Yeah, the good and the bad the negative positive and the negative Yes, you you need to look and see wait a minute Is, is there some value in what they just said to me? Can I learn from what they just said to me, especially the negative stuff? And if the answer is no, then you go,

all right, well, that was about them, not about me. I mean, I think that's true. I mean, it's like saying, I'll only accept the negative or neutral stuff in life, not the positive stuff that flies, comes my way. No, you know, say thank you. And it's about that moment and nothing else really. I don't think I'm alone in this.

Compliments have historically made me uncomfortable and I want them. Yeah. I can imagine being uncomfortable gliding, you know, moving through the world with these love bombs hitting me all the time as you do. It's hellish.

Next question, please. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Coming up, Ted Danson talks about his new podcast with Woody Harrelson and a truly wild day. This is a great behind the scenes story. A truly wild day where he is a great behind the scenes story, a truly wild day where he and many of the other folks from Cheers skipped work and went out on a boat.

I don't want to spoil the story, but it's a good one. Divorced beheaded died, divorced beheaded survived. We know the six wives of Henry VIII as pawns in his hunt for a son, but their lives were so much more than just being the king's wives. I'm Arisha Skidmore Williams. And I'm Brooke Zifrin. And we're the hosts of Wondery's podcast,

Even the Royals. In each episode, we'll pull back the curtain on royal families, past and present, from all over the world, to show you the darker side of what it means to be royalty. We rarely see Henry VIII's wives in their own light as women who use the tools available to them

to hold on to power. Some women won the game, others lost, but they were all unexpected agents in their own stories. Being a part of a royal family might seem enticing, but more often than not, it comes at the expense of everything else, like your freedom, your privacy, and sometimes even your head.

Follow even the Royals on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Go deeper and get more to the story with Wondery's top history podcasts, including American Scandal, Legacy, and Black History for Real. From Wondery, this is Black History for Real. I'm Francesca Ramsey.

And I'm Conscious Lee. And every week we gonna be chronicling a lot of trials and triumphs from black folks who ain't never heard about, even though we've been doing the damn thing since forever. Together, we'll weave black history's most overlooked figures back into the rightful place in American culture and all over the world.

Because on this show, you're gonna hear a little less In August 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue. And a little bit more. Sam looks to his fellow students. They just as mad as he is. He can't stop thinking about the tragic war in Vietnam and the violent backlash to the civil rights movement. It's like the whole world falling apart.

And ain't nobody ready to make it right. The school board could do something to change it, but they'd have to listen first. Follow Black History for real on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. Before we get back to the show, just a reminder about the Healthy Habits course over on the 10% Happier app taught by Kelly McGonigal and Alexis Santos. To access it, just download the 10% Happier app taught by Kelly McGonigal and Alexis Santos.

To access it, just download the 10% Happier app wherever you get your apps. So you brought up Cheers, and that makes me think about this new show you're putting out. What can you tell me about it? I've been given the advice that I can't even say the name of the show, so I don't know what the rules are, so I wanna step gingerly here. Are you talking about the Mike Schur project or the, I'm also along with Woody Harrelson doing the podcast, so I'm sorry, which you're talking about?

Podcast. Podcast. I can't wait to talk about it because this is so not in my wheelhouse and yet I'm really, really enjoying it. So somebody came to me a year ago and said I guess you know a lot of people were doing watch party shows or whatever were you if you were in a long running television show you would go episode by episode and talk about it. And I was curious and I wasn't working and strikes were looming and it was like start saying yes to things in life you

know my Jane Fonda thing. So I said yes and then they said well you you really should get you know you need to have a partner in this. And Woody Harrelson came to mind for all of us and it was called Woody and he actually said yes, which surprised the hell out of me. And we both got together and realized the reason why we wanted to do this is we love each other. We were great work friends, friends for 11,

well, maybe eight years, because he came on the third year of Cheers. And he was a big part of my life. He was like my younger, older, wiser, stupider brother. And the conceit became, let's catch up, let's talk about and reminisce about Cheers or about the times we knew each other so well and then let's catch each other up.

He's worked with a lot of people I haven't over the years and I've worked with people he hasn't. So we'll introduce each other to our new friends that we've met since we last knew each other 30 years ago. So that was the conceit and as you know it's called Where Everybody Knows Your Name, and this is my favorite part, with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson, parentheses, sometimes. Because my whimsical, wild, wonderful, astounding,

take big chunks out of life and chew it up friend, Woody, has a big life, and has a lot of work commitments here and there, so he is here when he can be. And it's wonderful, we're having the best time and, you know, meeting these amazing people. But here's what I discovered for myself was the idea of leading a conversation terrifies me. Small talk terrifies me.

Cocktail party, chit chat terrifies me. I'm bad at it. And then I realized after I started sitting down opposite somebody, you know, we're in studio together usually, and so it's like, you know, three feet away is somebody with headphones on and it's looking at you and you get to go,

what's it like to be you for an hour? And not a casual conversation, as deep as you both are willing to go, conversation about who are you? How did that happen? How did you become you? Fascinates me. And I realized what a privilege it was

to be in this position, to have that conversation. And I think that's probably part of why I like, you know, somewhere besides other wounds in life that drove me to be an actor. It's also the thing I love most about acting, whether it's finding out what my character is like, but, you know, what is it that makes you you is I find endlessly fascinating.

So I'm really excited about this new thing that I get to do that was something I never would have thought I would do. So are you going through the show episode by episode for seasons, or is it more non-linear? No, no, sorry. Forgive me. No, we sometimes get, you know, 20 minutes just to be with Ted and Woody and laugh and reminisce and catch up and then we have a guest come in and we talk and go anywhere we want.

You know, we've had Jane Fonda, speaking of Jane Fonda, and we got to talk about Vietnam and activism and what she cares about and how she got to be her. So we go all over the place. I had never met Flea before. And what an astounding moment that was. Here is somebody who, by all rights, by his definition, should not have lived past the age of 15.

And here is this remarkable person who's giving back to the communities and just living this very prayerful, conscious life. Anyway, it's been amazing. So no, we don't. We did, you know, because there is a market out there, not a market, but an awareness of Cheers. Even currently, people watch and enjoy Cheers. So that is a large group of people that we are not ignoring. We've had the writers and directors and as many of the actors as we can gather to talk about Cheers and reminisce, but it's really peppered throughout

with equal emphasis on people that I'd never met before. What is your relationship like with him? You've used the word brother. Woody? Yeah. Have you historically been in close touch all the time or are there years where you drift?

No. We are so different. Man, he is just like, like I said, he takes big chunks of life out, you know, and chews it up. And I'm much more fearful. I am much more cautious. And let me stay close to home. And I've done repertory-like sitcoms for, you know, 90% of my career. I don't go on location, you know. and you never know whether that's by choice or whether the industry said no you stay over here or whatever, but I really like it. But he is, you know, here's Woody. Woody is where

maybe the sixth year, seventh year of Cheers. If we're 15 minutes late to rehearsal, everyone goes 15 minutes late to rehearsal everyone goes 15 minutes late is on time half hour late. You're suddenly going. Hey, wait a minute. Where the hell is somebody call him? We had one day where it was like 45 minutes late and then somebody came running in who worked with the production office and we're this is the whole Cheers cast sitting around waiting for Woody. And Woody, the night before, had jumped on an overnight plane to Berlin so he could be there for the wall to come down because he just couldn't miss that. You know, whereas Woody is kind of the theme of our show. He's always done that. He takes, you know,

this big chunk out of life and just way more than I could possibly digest. So it's a kind of fun combination. For me it is at least. Woody, who I admire and love and wish I had more of in me and yet couldn't possibly really go there. And we get to hang out and we get to talk and we get to meet each other's get to talk and we get to meet each other's friends. It's like delicious for me.

I was reading up about you two and your relationship and I saw a story and I don't know if you want to talk about it. You could take a pass if you don't want to talk about it, but I saw a crazy story about the two of you skipping out on work for the day and taking mushrooms? Oh yeah, like I ruined a perfectly good drug for the rest of my life on that moment. Okay, don't do this at home. And if my granddaughters are listening, don't. So five years into Cheers, and we had never done anything. We were the best behaved, you know, we were all little nuts,

but we were, we didn't mess around with our, the writers and directors, we were good boys and girls. And we realized that the show coming up, the episode that week was mostly mostly about Shelley and Rhea, and that the guys had very small peripheral parts. So we thought, you know what, let's play hooky. And somehow this took shape as a really great idea. So we decided to meet down at San Pedro Harbor

and get on this, I don't know, 35, 40 foot, it wasn't a Boston Whaler, but it was kind of like that, that John Ratzenberger owned. So we all decided to meet and then we'd call in before we got on the boat and say, oh, sorry, I'm not feeling good, I'm gonna not come in. And we just did it, you know, one right after the other, just kept handing the phone.

So it was clear they knew what was going on. But off we went, we got on the boat. Woody and I think we're already had smoked a fair amount of grass, 8.30 in the morning, but hooky, you know, free day. And we got on the boat and we chug on out and on our way to Catalina. And there was the beginning of it,

the tail end of a storm that came up from Mexico So the waves were starting to gather some real rolling but before that happened what he said I have some mushrooms you want to take some mushrooms and It was like yeah, I've never done that and Here's a free day You know next eight hours. we're gonna just be on boat yeah what a great idea and I hadn't eaten so when I reached in and took you know it wasn't a small handful it was a large handful enough to satisfy my

desire to chew food and eat it so big big chunk of mushrooms then the the weather starts to pick up and we're rolling and tossing and turning at the same time that all of a sudden I'm having trouble remembering how to breathe. Literally. It was like, I finally went up on deck and sat next to George Wendt who looked at me

and having experienced friends on drugs throughout the years in his life, he looked at me and went, oh for crying out loud, breathe. And he would sit there and tap me about every 90 seconds to remind me to breathe. It was a nightmare. Worst time of my life. The only kind of hallucinatory kind of thing was Woody finally came back up on deck and confessed that he had thought about jumping over and going swimming. And I looked at his face and he looked skeletal.

It looked like a skull. So have not touched a mushroom ever again. Totally ruined it. But yeah, that's me and Woody. In that case, it sounds like he was enjoying the adventure and you were not, which sounds true to form. No, it turns out he really was terrified. He was gonna jump into the water.

I think we both overdid it. That was not a joy dip. No, no, no. He was, yeah. And I think my understanding as mushrooms is, go be with friends, listen to some music and sit under a beautiful tree is kind of the best way to do this. And we were fighting another force of nature,

which was this literally rock and rolling boat, trying to make its way to Catalina. Yeah, don't do this. Yeah, you don, trying to make its way to Catalina. Yeah, don't do this. Yeah, you don't need to tell me twice. That sounds, I've had my own bad trips and that just sounds especially awful. Back to the theme of the conversation, which is my curiosity about what for you

are the elements of a good life. It sounds like we've touched on one without naming it, which is friendship. Yeah, say more about that. I mean, it's just, it's clear when I hear you rhapsodize about how much you love Woody and other people on the cast and other names that have just come up during the course of this conversation that friendship is very meaningful to you. friendship is very meaningful to you.

It is, I don't know how good a friend I am, meaning my hub, whether it's, you know, limiting or just the best thing in the world is Mary. You know, we can hunker down just the two of us and be thrilled. So I've never been the kind of guy who, and Woody is, Woody is best friends and I mean that literally and both parties would agree to that, with hundreds of people. He truly is. People adore him and he them and they nurture it and hang out. Most of my friends, especially male friends, are work-oriented. You know, I love having a project and having something that we're both doing

and friendship come out of that. I rarely will go have a beer, you know, and partly because of my upbringing and my makeup and my things in life that I had to work through I was much more here's my philosophy until perhaps recently it's men are great to hang out with very relaxing but they're beside the point the woman the woman is where you need to be dad this is This is where all blessings come from. And I'm not saying that's healthy or good or anything, it just was, I think, perhaps my upbringing.

You know, I think I perhaps looked at my father, who was a magnificent man. I adore him, love him. He loved me so unconditionally and was proud of me and all of that. But I looked at him and I looked at my mother and I went, yeah, I'm going with my mother's point of view, you know. Coming up, Ted talks more about his relationship with his wife, the actress Mary Steenburgen, and what he learned about ethics from his role on The Good Place. Have you heard the argument, I've heard it argued by experts here on this show, that obviously it's incredibly important to have a good marriage or whether you're married or not, to have a great partnership. And that if you don't diversify your social repertoire with friendships, then it could put too much weight

on your primary relationship. I can see some truth in that. I don't feel it. I really don't. I'm endlessly fascinated by my wife, endlessly. The amount of laughter that comes out of our house is just intoxicating. So, but I get that.

You know, we both go, dear Lord, don't die because I have no idea how I would go through life. You know, it would be such a shock because we do, we are really close and do a lot of things together I agree with that. I would argue for me not argue I would say that if I didn't work and have those relationships that are at work, which are really Amazing relationships because in my case, it's about playing together. You're out playing. You're doing a contact sport. I think acting is a contact sport.

You are doing this thing where you look at each other if it's successful and go, fuck, this is great. And the bonding over that is intense. And I would guess for me, better than going and having a beer. Yeah, no, that makes sense. Boy, I can just answer me, better than going and having a beer. Yeah. No, that makes sense. Boy, I can just answer anything, can't I? I really, we're gonna have to leave five minutes to detox

from this conversation or else I will walk out and step in the pile of cosmic shit. So please, please know that I'm trying to present what I hope is true with me. You're allowing for the fact that there might be delusion on your part. Yes, please. Yeah, but couldn't the same thing be said for anybody? No, here's the religious thing, my mother's religious thing, I think coming in.

I think, you know, pride goeth before a fall. Okay. That kind of, I don't know, religious, I think it's more religious than other philosophies. I believe in that. You know, I believe that take the air out of yourself before life takes it out of you, for you. Yeah, I believe in that too. I have that kind of defensive pessimism.

I'm just not hearing you sound too prideful, I guess is my point. Well, if you're talking about what we're talking about, you're probably not living it in that moment. You know, you're leaving that meditative place or whatever place that you started talking about to try to describe something that, you know, the whole in the donut, How do you do that? And by doing so, you've immediately lifted yourself out of true present, you know, whatever I think. I think I'm trying to shape what I think would be a

good way to live for me. I'm trying to also impress you to some degree or, you know, all of the above comes into play when you start talking about, for lack of a better word, enlightenment, which is why it's so easy to poke fun of, you know, us enlightened liberals. We're so easily shocked, you know. I'm sure I've been trying to impress you too,

just for the record. Well, well done. I'm impressed.'ve been trying to impress you too, just for the record. Well, well done. I'm impressed. Likewise. Likewise. Well, let me just ask one last question. It's a complete non sequitur, but The Good Place, one of many amazing projects in which you've played a key role sitcom that takes place in heaven or a heaven-like environment.

And it's really about moral development. It's about ethics. Mike Schur, who was the creator of the show, has been on this show. I'll put a link to that in the show notes if anybody wants to go back and listen to Mike. But I'm just curious, like, what did you, and you may have already covered this

in something you said earlier in the show, but what did you take away, if anything, from all those years of working on the show about ethical practice and moral development for yourself? I think I realized how full of shit I can be. But it wasn't a bad realization. It was like, oh my gosh, wow, yeah. You know, the whole thing was kind of based,

Mike Schurz is based on a point system. You do something good, you get X amount. You do something that's kind of a wash, you got nothing. And then, you know, if you do something mean or bad or unethical, you get minus points. And one of the examples I thought about, you know, was the barista celebrity tip. Meaning I got my, you know, he's pouring the coffee

and I've already paid so I have change in my hand so the appropriate time to tip is now. But because I'm going to give him a big tip, a celebrity tip, I don't want to waste it with him not looking. So I'll wait for the barista to turn around before I grace him with my huge tip. Carmick Wash. You know, you don't get any points for that. Here's what I walked away with. Sorry, there are so many things that were fascinating about that

show and it was the real deal. I mean as far as ethics go They had two or three ethics professors on speed dial the writers room at all times So they they would have a week-long Seminar for the writers before the season started and before the writing started with an ethics professor the show was later shown at different major universities as a As a class people could select to take that was about ethics, but based around the Good Place. So it was a real deal. But once again, for Ted, it has to be simple. And the thing that I walked away with was, you know what? Every day get up and try to be a little better. That's all. And I think I got that from The Good Place. Yeah. I have to say,

that last episode, if it's not the way the universe works, it should be. It was just so beautifully written. Just amazing. I love, I so love, here's another like blessing in my life. I get to walk around the world, the streets, and 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 year old kids come up. And it's not the celebrity hit. They cannot wait to talk to me about the good place. And their parents, if they happen to be there, come up smiling, because they enjoyed it too.

But that age group, which is usually when kids are developing, they're sharpening their skills set for getting a sense of humor. So they loved it. They loved that it was purposeful. They loved that it had all these little surprise things that they would want to rewind and look at. And it was about ethics. It was real and entertaining. You know, it was just this perfect combination of truly what it means to lead a meaningful, purposeful life. And I guess that's one of the things I took away, meaning I kind of examined my actions in life, you know, and how purposeful they were or not.

That was a blessing in my life, that show. You were great in it and Mike Schur is an incredible talent. I mean, I loved Parks and Rec before it. I'm working with him again right now. Oh really, what are you guys making? Yeah, it's called A Classic Spy. And there is some potential misdeeds going on in a retirement community.

And a private detective hires me to go insert me into the community to discover what's really going on. And I'm an excited, delighted spy who's really terrible at it. So, but it's fun. It's about stuff. Once again, it's funny, but it's fun. It's about stuff. Once again, it's funny, but it's about aging and stuff. When does it come out? I'm not 100% sure.

Perhaps, I don't know, April, May. Okay, I am looking forward to that. We're running out of our allotted time. I want to ask, is there something you were hoping to talk about that we didn't get to? Yes. What? I would really like to know What your takeaway is from these shows that you've done? How has it impacted you? Do you have any? Realizations or or is it a good thing for you bad thing, you know?

It's Unbelievably positive. I have so many realizations that I fill books with them. What I'd say that's coming to mind, at least right now, as the primary benefit of doing this show is that the biggest problem in personal development, in my opinion, biggest problem in spiritual growth

or whatever it is you wanna call it, self-improvement, the biggest problem is forgetting. Because life pulls you away from all, you read a good book, you listen to a great podcast, you hear a great speech, you meet an amazing person at a party, and then life pulls you back into small Ted, small Dan, fear, acquisition, distraction. So for me, you know, I'm taping this in the closet in our house and I do, I'm in here all the time, some weeks I'm doing four interviews. I'm talking about the really interesting important stuff, at least if I'm doing my job correctly, and it helps me remember to wake up.

And is there, sorry this goes to ego and, so it'll probably be impossible to ask, but is there a grander purpose for doing this? Why are you doing this? You could have picked other things, but why are you putting this out into the world? Well, I was a network newsman for, well, 21 years at ABC News where I anchored Nightline in the weekend edition of GMA,

and before that I was in local news. And so I covered wars and natural disasters and all sorts of things. And I actually really loved that job, I mean, quite deeply. And then I started to get interested in meditation and specifically Buddhism and then interested in other modalities for improving your mind, psychology, exercise nature, all of the, what I call the no brainers. And it just, that stuff got more interesting to me than all of the news that I had been covering over the years.

Yeah, so if the grand purpose really harkens back to something you were talking about earlier, which is what else is there, it's why selfishness, what else is there to do on the planet in whatever time you're given here? What could be more fun? What could be more useful? What could put you more in happiness and joy

than being useful to other people? So, MySkill is as a content creator, interviewer, so why not use that to do something a little bit more useful than the mass shooting of the week? Wow, thank you for that. Yeah, I'm really glad that I got to be on your show. Thank you. I'm really glad that you got to be on the show

and that you agreed to it. I spent a lot of time wondering, admiring how you never let yourself off the hook and then sometimes wondering whether you're too hard on yourself, but that may be the discussion for you and Mary. I'm only too hard on myself if I think it looks good. A man after my own heart.

A man after my own heart. I love it. Perfect answer. Well, it's such a pleasure to meet you. Yeah, you too. You too, Dan. Thank you again for doing this. My pleasure and thank you.

Have a wonderful day. You too. Thanks again to Ted. Check out Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes, wherever you get your podcasts, and you can see him in a classic spy on Netflix coming soon. Before I go, two things. First, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. You can sign up at danharris.com.

Second, most importantly, thank you very much to everybody who worked so hard on this show. Our producers are Lauren Smith and Tara Anderson. And we get additional production support from Colin Lester Fleming, Isabel Hibbard, Carolyn Keenan and Wanbo Wu. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer. Kevin O'Connell is our director of audio and post-production. DJ Cashmere is our managing producer. And Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme.

If you like 10% happier, I hope you do. You can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondry.com slash survey.