The Adam and Dr. Drew Show - #1864 A Solomonic Decision

Episode Date: May 10, 2024

Adam and Mark wrap up the week discussing Judge Ito, Adam shares his issues with the gloves used during the O.J. Simpson trial, and the latest with the Menéndez brothers. Plus, the Menéndez' relatives take a stand after 35 years. Please Support Our Sponsor: BetterHelp.com/AdamandDrew

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membership and receive 25% off. Check it out today, DailyWirePlus.com and ready for Mr. Bircham on May 12th. Recorded live at Corolla One Studios with Adam Corolla and Mark Garagos. You're listening to The Adam and Mark Show. Yeah, get it on, got to get on the church big and amending get it on Thanks for tuning in mark ergo's filling in very ably for dr. Drew this week Mark you'll recognize as one of the only two people to be able to solve the judge ito Riddle of time pieces and hourglasses on his desk on his bench and hourglasses on his desk, on his bench. Comedic great Jay Moore, the only other person that was able to solve that riddle.

I give Jay credit because I have known Judge Edo since he was a DA and you didn't show up to the Christmas party this year, the office Christmas party, you were at the house Christmas party, but Judge Ito was at the office Christmas party. And I always tell the story about Judge Ito. When he first hit the bench, that was back when there was a municipal court and a superior court.

They were not combined. And he used to tell the story about how my dad had left the DA's office before him and go into private practice. And my mom had bought my dad a Rolex. And he had a, I don't want to say obsession, but he longed for that Rolex president that my dad would wear. And so I was very attuned to his affection for timepieces, watches, hourglasses. And it was always on his bench. People because of the OJ case, I think, don't realize prior to OJ, he was one of the most revered judges in the Superior Court and had run Department

100, which was the kind of the hub of all the criminal cases in the county of L.A., and probably was destined for Court of Appeals or the California Supreme Court. By the way, as was Chris Darden. Chris Darden, I think, was probably on a short list to a been appointed judge. And, you know, to some degree, OJ got in the way of all that. Well, here's a question that you're uniquely qualified

to answer because I was complaining about it on my program a couple of weeks ago, which is, you know, if the glove doesn't fit, you must have quit, you know. The gloves were soaked in blood and they, I also forgot the part where they owed you had to wear latex gloves under the glove to try to, to try to try the glove on. The glove, if it was soaked in blood and then left to dry would presumably shrink. And then putting a latex glove on before you tried to put the glove on would seem to make it that much more difficult. And then there was the third element,

which is OJ not wanting to do a very effective job of putting these gloves on. Now, if I were the prosecution, I would say I'm not doing a thing where a guy puts on a glove, a latex glove, and then tries another glove that's been soaked in blood and shrunk left to dry in the sun. I'll tell you what I will do, I'll find out the brand of the glove, that's an isotoner or whatever it is, I'll find out the size, oh, it's an X or an extra large, and I will buy the exact same glove, and he may try that glove on in this courtroom

minus the latex glove, and minus the shrinkage from the blood. Now, I don't know how you can argue about a new set that is exactly the same brand and the same size as this set. And I suppose there's arguments go, well, those were broken in or something like that. But why did they not push for that?

Well, he has an explanation for that. You'll remember many years ago, we had him on as a guest on reasonable doubt, and he explained that. I will tell you that I do to some degree, I always, as you know, talking to me for decades about this stuff, I always take the position that the judge,

a lot of times, I'm not saying it in this specific instance, but a lot of times, my father used position that the judge, a lot of times, I'm not saying in this specific instance, but a lot of times my father used to call the judge in California, especially when they were always prosecutors, DAs in a robe, that was his favorite expression, because they would be carrying the water for the DA. If the DA wanted to do that, inevitably a judge would let them do that. I will tell you, as you're talking about what you would do, I tried that very same thing in

Scott Peterson. I went out and I bought the exact same boat. I put this kid who worked for me in the boat in that very same bay with a body that weighed the very same. And I had three times had him try to push the body over. And that one time could that happen without capsizing the boat and nearly dropping a drowning Rafi who was the kid I, you might guess that he was Armenian. Yeah. Yes, nearly drowning Rafi. The judge would not allow that in evidence.

I always took the position because the defense wanted it. However, one of the issues, to your point, when the jury was deliberating, the jury asked that very question. They wanted to know how in the world he could have done this, Scott could have done this, and we had a jury view of the boat in the parking lot of the courthouse.

The jurors started to get in the boat and started rocking, and I lost my mind at the time. I said, Judge, you not only excluded my demonstration, which was the exact same boat, the exact same thing, but now you're letting them rock and rock, get inside the boat and rock it around there on their own experiment. Who poods, sorry, but that I don't know why they didn't. Obviously, that episode took place five years after OJ, but I'm with you.

I mean, why would you give somebody the eye or do something better? You take you have the hands fingerprinted. Just get somebody make a bold of the hands that you had fingerprinted. Take the glove, the new glove and do that. I mean, the defense would have objected, but. Right, yeah, make a plaster cast of OJ's hand and have somebody else put it on them. The other thing that was crazy

when I was watching The People versus OJ Simpson, oh, sorry, or The Doc, because one's the series and one's The Doc I was watching, Made in America, I think. The other thing that's crazy about Judge Edo is they planned a field trip to OJ's house in Rockingham and they were gonna let all the jurors show up in a bus and walk around like this is where Cato's guest house was, this is where they found the glove next to Cato's guest house was. This is where they found the glove next to Cato's guest house in the yard.

It is crazy when you hear about the evidence from back in the day. One glove found at the crime scene, the next glove found in O.J.'s side yard, okay? But the defense said to the jury, while you're here looking around the grounds The defense said to the jury, while you're here looking around the grounds of OJ's Rockingham Estate where this thing happened, this is where Kato was, Kato heard a thump in the night,

sounds like someone went over the fence and banged into the side of the thing, this is where the glove was found. The defense said, how about they take a tour of the home as well? And judge Edo for some reason said, fine, let him tour the house. Even though there was no nefarious activity that had gone on inside of the house. So theoretically, I mean,

there wasn't any anything that would have helped or hurt the case inside the main house, but he said, let them look in the house. So they- You know, I don't remember. I don't think we have. We had Darden on, Crisson on reasonable doubt, but we never had Marsha, right? No, we never had Marsha, right? No, we never had Marsha. I do Marsha, I do kind of a thing with Megyn Kelly, with Marsha, like once a month on Fridays. I'm gonna ask her about that because if the prosecution,

I'm gonna go back to my old song, if the prosecution had asked for that, the mother of the judge hasn't been born that wouldn't allow that. I'm always surprised if it's a judge doing something that the defense wants over the prosecution objection, because there is this natural tendency for the judiciary, at least back in the 90s of the early aughts, to kind of lean towards carrying the prosecution's water. Well, Marsha was objecting because the defense took the House and famously swapped out all the pictures of him posing with blonde playmates with Desmond Tutu.

I don't know that I buy all of that. I don't know that there wasn't liberties taken. I'm a cynic when it comes to that because I always thought, and OJ having been just passed away, reminded me of all of these things. And people have asked a zillion times whether the jury got it right. And I always say both juries, I think, got it right. I think the criminal jury, when you've

got Mark Fuhrman being convicted and basically lying on the stand, or at least later being convicted of that, and the way that that unfolded, and the jury selection there, and then the civil jury, where in that trial they could call O.J., because he doesn't have the fifth, and he has to testify, and it's a much lower standard. You just think, I just think that both jurors, juries got it right. I wouldn't bash either jury for what they did. Well, they did famously interview one of the black female jurors who was a little elderly

and she just said it was payback for all the times. They didn't get it right, which- Well, by the way, I couldn't agree more. Look at what happened to the Menendez brothers. I mean, eight days after the OJ acquittal, they're picking a jury in Van Nuys. I mean, would you want to be on trial back then on a retrial that was six to six before? And then you've got, you know, all the internal

DA politics saying we've got to, you know, we desperately need to win one after that. I mean, that's unbelievable to me. No, it's sad that in life, and it happens so often in life, which is like even in a basketball game or football game There's a tiki-tack call that goes the other way There's usually a makeup call that comes the other way. There's never discussion about it. It's not official policy It's human behavior and emotions and and it's carved in our DNA where okay you did this you Charged you you did a sort of tiki-tack charging call on this team and of crowds booing and the people are angry and the coach is upset They'll make up that call at some point just

Maybe not even consciously though. They'll make up for it maybe not even consciously they'll make up for it. It's ingrained in the DNA, the cultural zeitgeist. In fact, there's even a term for it. It's solomonic. It's a solomonic decision where basically you're trying to even it out. And there hasn't been a case I've ever tried where I haven't watched that happen as it unfolds.

Well, speaking of the Menendee, what's up? You know, they are, as we sit here, the prosecution is, the ball is in their court as to their response to the habeas. I will tell you that we have done, I don't think anybody really knows about this, we've done a what's called a conditional examination. In criminal cases, you generally don't get a deposition. There is an exception for what's called a conditional exam. The conditional exam was of Joan, who is Kitty's sister. And people often- Wait a minute, hold on, let me stop for a second. You don't normally get a deposition in a criminal case? Normally do not.

You have to meet certain requirements to have a deposition. You can get a preliminary hearing, but a preliminary hearing is a probable cause proceeding You're limited to some degree by which witnesses the prosecution calls unless you do an 866 proper So now you're talking about a deposition with whom? Kitty's sister. Oh the sister the sister of the mom Yeah, and the reason I think that is significant is I don't know about you,

but when people ask me about the case, they inevitably fall back to, yeah, but what about the bomb? Why was why the bomb? Why why did they have to take out the bomb? When I always say when the first two juries, because remember there were two juries on the first trial, one for Lyle, one for Eric, when they heard the evidence of abuse, they were hung.

They were hung with favoring manslaughter over murder. Nobody said they should walk, but they were hung in favor of manslaughter because they considered it in self-defense and they heard the evidence of kiddie's complicity. You now have when they're trial number two, eight days after OJ, you have a completely different rulings on imperfect self-defense. You've got different jury instruction. You have evidence that's been excluded and famously you've got David Cohn arguing that it was an abuse excuse,

they did this to be rich, as if these two guys who were living in the lap of luxury were wanting for anything at that point. But having been said, I think it's ultimately the most significant thing you can say is when her own sister is testifying that they've been in long enough under oath and having the DA have the option of questioning that to me speaks more persuasively than anything I could ever say. How old is her sister now? In the 90s. In the 90s?

Yeah. Wow. That's what and there was, there was, we videoed it and we did it in the courtroom and it's very, very persuasive. It's an amazing hour of her talking about her sister, talking about, you know, one of the things she talks about is her daughter, Joan's daughter, being so affected by being at the house in this rule that you could not go down the hallway if Jose was in the room with one of the boys.

Wow. Now, as a father, you're closer to their ages than I am now to my kids, but that's, to me that's inexplicable, I mean, it's unfathomable. How do you have a rule that the mother enforces that you can't go down the hallway if the father is in with one of the boys? Yeah, and that in the law, there is the person that robs the bank and then there's the wheel man. And, you know, if someone gets shot in the bank, that's not on the wheel man, but the wheel man's in trouble too.

And there's plenty of examples of you didn't do this, but you were there or you're helping or you're an accomplice to this thing. So basically, she was an accomplice to this crime, ostensibly. Absolutely. There's documentary evidence. There are notes of the therapist, which proved that she knew when she was hiding a big secret. And to your point, once again, I always invoke my father, he used to say that, you know, one of the great anomalies in the criminal law is when they give immunity to the bank robber

to get the getaway driver. That's your point. I mean, the fact is that you can be an accessory in real time and after the fact. Well, I'll take a quick break here, but I want you to give me some estimates on what's next for the Menendee and when they may breathe fresh air.

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better help visit better help comm slash Adam and Jew today to get 10% off your first month that's better help HELP comm such Adam and Drew So very interesting Observation I am told people I don't know that I've ever said it on I think I said it on your show But not on this show One of the reasons that I took the Menendez case show. One of the reasons that I took the Menendez case was doing reasonable doubt with you for years, and I kind of tease you about it because you've got a great story. But to some degree, your observation that you should repeat it, because I don't know that we've ever talked about it on this

show, is compelling to me and is probably one of the motivating factors for me taking the case. You know what I'm talking about? I know, because I've said it since I heard about the case. Because it feels like a joke, but most jokes live in some reality. And if I, as the owner of two kids, I say owner because they're still under 18, if the two twins, if at some point Natalia walked into Sonny's room and said I'm thinking about killing mom and dad tonight or this I'm thinking about killing mom and dad with a

shotgun while they eat Haagen-Dazs and Sonny said, we doing it this Sunday or the following Sunday? I would then look at me as a failure as a parent and that I did something horrible to even have the two people sign off on this. One kid can always go rogue, you know, but to have the two agree upon it means there's probably some sort of unspeakable abuse that had taken place over the course of time with these two people, because otherwise the other kid would object and say, that's insane. Let's just say the Menendez parents were loving, nurturing, good-hearted, decent, Christian people. Don't you think one of the kids would have went, are you kidding me?

I love dad. He's the greatest guy in the world. He went to every little league game and he showed me how to hit a proper backhand on the tennis court. We have plans. We're going bass fishing next week. What are you talking about? Well, and I'll amplify it because fast forward to 2024,

35 years later, I've got a letter signed by the 24 of the relatives that are all saying enough is enough they should be released I mean can you imagine that the victims are all clamoring for them to be released 35 years later what is that telling? Yeah yeah Sharon Tate's mom never did that during one of her 28 Parole meetings she had with the state of California with Charles Manson Now she showed up every time and said he needs to die in prison. So yeah by the way Gavin Newsom is paroling or Granting parole to to others. Can you explain to me why he hasn't commuted

these two sentences yet? I, look, whatever side you're on, whether it's the George Floyd thing or it's the Menendez brothers, I really get upset when something is too high a profile so that justice gets sort of bent or altered. You know, I don't want to live in a society where they go, well, I don't really know if this guy killed George Floyd, but they're gonna burn the city down if we don't lock him up for the rest of his life, so we'll

just do it. That is not a system, by the way. And by the same token, it's like, well, they're too high profile, it's not politically expedient. If there's some lower level gangbanger guys that no one had heard of, we could just fly right under the radar. So yeah, I would happily do that, and I have, but I can't do this one because my political opponents are going to seize on it and beat me up about it. I would just, I couldn't imagine being on the losing end of these kinds of decisions. And it really does compete with what we're trying to create in terms of a system. Right. That's exactly right. And if you try to remove that calculation, which is why, you know, this week we've returned to the Trump trials and why I make the awful prediction that this is the issue is going

to be on the other foot, to borrow your expression, it could go no other way. I've watched it in the 90s. It's now returned and it's going to keep going until there's some horrible abuse that makes people wake up to it. It's not the keep going until there's some horrible abuse that makes people wake up to it. It's just it's not the way it should be. That is, I guess, the only takeaway that you can come. Yeah, I agree. So I hope that they get out. I do not believe they pose a threat and they've certainly paid their debt and I don't know why it feels sort of cosmically unjust that they expire in prison. Also they could get out and join the tax rolls, you know what I mean? Like I don't want to pay for it. And the people who talk constantly about reform and prison reform and prison

reform and all that kind of stuff, I never hear them say anything about the Menendez brothers, but they should be poster childs for reform because they pose no threat, they paid their debt, and instead of being a burden on the taxpayers, it could come out and join the taxpayers and start putting something back in the system. I'll tell you, I get unsolicited letters from correctional officers who tell me they've worked in the system for decades. They have never, ever come to any inmates' support

for being freed. And they've written letters saying that is supportive of them being free because of all the good work they've done. I've never seen mitigation like what they have. I mean, these two in the face of life without where their where their expectation for the last 18 years, now 19, they're never gonna get out. All they've done is good work, great work.

I mean, you only wish you had the kind of philanthropic good works that they had and background that they had. So I couldn't agree with you more. That's why I'm there and kudos to you when I get them out this year. How oh you think they'll be out this year that's my hope that's my prediction all right well positive note to go out on I'll be at Jimmy Kimmel's Club doing stand-up May 16th I'll be at Irvine with Brad Williams May 23rd you can go to amcrawl.com for all the live shows what do you have mark you're an Orange County

stop by a pier site at the Casa Tropicana Hotel right outside of the St. Clementi Pier. If you're down in the Palm Desert, join the Heat, stop by the V Hotel and go to Gigi's. If you're downtown LA, Engine Company 28, we're right around the corner from Fentanyl Island. So, until next time, I'm Amcro for Mark Garagas. Say it! Mahalo. All your favorite crime dramas like CSI and Blue Bloods. Or your favorite action dramas like Breaking Bad on Stories by AMC or The Walking Dead Universe. Plus, Pluto TV has hundreds of drama movies and TV shows.

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