The Adam and Dr. Drew Show - #1926 A Bouillabaisse of Crazy with Dr. Andrew Newberg

Episode Date: October 10, 2024

Today, Adam and Dr. Drew are joined by Dr. Andrew Newberg, recognized as one of the most influential neuroscientists, to discuss the importance of rituals, the biological evolution of the sexes, and what's happened to everyone's brain? Plus they dissect cognitive dissonance, paranoia, and some vindication for the Aceman! For more with Dr. Andrew Newberg BOOK: Sex, God, and the Brain INSTAGRAM: @dr.andrewnewberg WEBSITE: Andrewnewberg.com Leave us a voicemail: SpeakPipe.com/AdamandDrDrew OR Click the microphone at top of the homepage, AdamandDrDrew.com

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Yeah, get it on get to get on the church they're gonna mandate get it on Dr. Drew's a board certified physician Addiction medicine specialists and we have more than one doctor. Yes today show. Dr. Andrew Newberg is joining us It's got a new book out sex God and the brain and he's joining us remotely by the way It's available Barnes & Noble, Amazon, and wherever you find finer books. Good to see you, Doc. Thank you, Chris, beyond the program. Interesting stuff, you know how I love this stuff.

It's good to see you again. We've talked before, absolutely. Yes, it is. And let me get all your particulars out there. Is it Dr. Period, Andrew Newberg on Instagram or just Dr. Period. Okay. Dr. with the period, yep.

Andrew Newberg on Instagram, also at Andrew, looks like there's a space, is there an underscore? Nope, just Andrew Newberg all the way across. On X and then andrewnewberg.com. He is recognized as one of the most influential neuroscientist around. He is a physician, he's an internist, but he also is somebody very interested in the brain. He did a bunch of work

in nuclear medicine back in the day when, actually during the decade of the brain, if you remember that whole moniker, which I'm sure you do. I was a big decade for us. Yeah, yeah, and we've a lot of the stuff that we think and talk about today But but I guess we should get first into the the book talk to us quickly because I it occurs to me that the material that you cover in the book at least around sexuality and Biological evolution of the sexes stuff that Adam and I've been talking about for years on Loveline Just because we observed it in real time. All right? I mean, Adam, when things became sort of ideal, ideologized, we're like, what the fuck? This is not how things work, right? Yeah, I'm kind of more interested in what's happened to everyone's brain over the last

five years. I mean, I didn't notice how bad everyone's brain had got until COVID came around and then I was like Oh people are incapable of thinking clearly But is it? Microplastics is their biological component to people losing their ability to think and then I'll tell you my theory About what's really driving this but you tell us Dr. Andrew Yeah, this is a landmine. Well, as with most things with the brain, it's complicated, and it probably is a bunch of things.

Yeah, I mean, there's more pollutants in the world, there's more hormones that we're eating and so forth, so there's a lot of things that affect us. Personally, though, and this does tie into the book because it has to do with sort of how we begin to view reality and the repetitive aspect of that. The more we keep thinking about the same thing, the more we keep focusing on the same thing,

that becomes the neural wiring of our brain. And so the social media, the more we keep watching all the same programs, the same ideas, the same perspectives, then that kind of locks our neurons into a way of thinking and looking at reality that becomes very difficult to break out of. And it kind of ties into this because this is how rituals work and it can be very good. I mean, this is how we learn things.

It's how we learn math. We do it over and over again and we learn math, but it can also become problematic because if we learn certain ideas, if we're kind of indoctrinated into certain concepts, it becomes very challenging and very difficult for us to work ourselves out of at some point. And that's part of the challenge. I have a question, just a quick follow-up for Adam, gives his theory, which is, so to me that's a setup for something we call cognitive dissonance, right?

The brain doesn't like to change because oftentimes change in ideas threatens change in self and change in ideas about the world and then that triggers something we call cognitive dissonance. I've begun to think that we've slipped past cognitive dissonance into delusionality in the sense that I've never seen so much conspiratorial thinking on one side and I've never seen so much pure paranoia and talk about Nazis and crazy shit that I only heard in the psychiatric hospital on the other side. So that's delusional thinking and it's the only place I ever heard it until the last five years when all of a sudden the mass Delusion took place. Yeah. Well, and it's it you know, this is this is also one of the things

You know, I talk a lot about religion and spirituality and sexuality and and you know, where is normalcy? And it is challenging, you know as the old saying goes you're not paranoid if people really are out to get you So, you know the question becomes uh, you know What is okay for us to think and believe and different ways in which we act about the world? One of the things I mentioned in the book about sexuality, if you have two people who are hypersexual and they get together and they're having all kinds of fun, there's nothing wrong with that. But if you have somebody who's hypersexual who kind of unleashes themselves on a population that doesn't want that, then you end up with abuse and rape and all these

horrible things. So there's really, you know, it's very challenging, I think, for us to think about what is normal, what is not, how do we differentiate those things. It's not easy. But you're right. I mean, you know, the more we keep getting pulled into these different ways of thinking, those become our realities. And because it becomes harder and harder to break out of that, it can become very much a kind of delusion at some point. I don't know.

I always put the easy lines in the sand for me is functioning. If you have trouble functioning because of what you're doing, or if you hurt or harm other people. Pretty easy. Right. Well, you know, but like take the first one, because that, again, is another thing I talk about in terms of thinking about religion. You know, if somebody came to you and said, Doc, all I want to do is believe in religion.

I'm just going to, you know, focus on God. I'm just going to say prayers. I'm not going to do anything else. I'm not going to work. I'm not going to have sex. I'm not going to do, you know, you might start to think that that could be somebody who's getting delusional or hyper religious and you know, has different issues and isn't going to be functional in society. Or maybe it's a priest or a nun, which, you know, we can argue about the normalcy or abnormality

of that. But part of the question is, you know, for monks and nuns and people who followed any tradition to very, very intense levels, For some of them, it works and it seems to be adaptive for them. And for others, it can go down the path of becoming a member of a cult and doing all kinds of things. So again, that line. But I do agree with you completely about once you're into harming other people and things like that, that to me obviously is extremely bad.

And it's part of where I think some of this research goes. I think we talked about this on your program the last time about neurotheology and part of that, you know, studying the brain in the context of religion and the idea that maybe we can learn what is it that makes somebody a very religious person who says I'm going to be altruistic and kind and compassionate and help people around the world and another religious person who says I'm going to blow up other people because they don't believe the way I do. So your theory?

Well my theory is we are experiencing sort of an experiment of transition that we're not really, we're kind of the canary in the coal mine for, which is. Technology or? Yeah, well, it's sort of technology meets this kind of sedentary lifestyle, which is we're supposed to be working and sweating and kind of on our feet and problem solving.

Everything's a problem.. Everything's a problem. And everything's a problem to solve. And it's really, you know, it's, when you build something, everything is a problem and every day is just problem solving. Every moment of everything is just, how are we gonna do this? How are we gonna do this?

And your brain really gets a workout. Like it gets a workout. So the workout, it's like everyone is allergic to something and everyone has gut and bowel problems because we're not giving our immune system a workout because some idiot said we should be using Purell and wiping everything down and no child should be hugged by a relative without them

first washing their hands. Or exposed to peanut butter. Or exposed to anything. We did that and now everyone's got a gut problem and everyone's got an immune system problem. Every medic, half the medications I see on TV are just for some skin disease or something. It's an immune system problem. We have big problems because somebody thought they were smart and told us this is what we need to do. And then Madison Avenue

and big whatever got behind it and the government fucked us just like they fucked us with the food pyramid. That's what happened. We decided that the more evolved way to live was to go to college, learn stuff, and then get a job indoors with air conditioning where you sat around and stared at stuff and never got out and never broke a sweat and never fell a tree or you know did a barn raising or anything. And I know that the people who work in these fields are much clear thinkers than the folks that sit and bathe in ideas all day.

The ladies from The View are nuts because they sit in a bouillabaisse of crazy people with crazy ideas and float paranoid thoughts all day. If one of them was a logger, they would constantly be explaining to the other person, no, no, no, that's not what happened, that's not how this is going to to work or you're not thinking straight about it. But they don't. They all bathe in their own juices, their own retarded juices, and their brain has gone. The people I talk to who work for a living, who solve problems, who turn wrenches, who put wood together, are much clearer thinkers than the others who sit in their air-conditioned environment in a cubicle and stare at something all day. Even though those people are much more educated, they do not solve

problems, they don't know what to do. COVID showed up and took over their life because they didn't they couldn't process danger. The people who work with spinning blades and flames and welders and and you know hypoids saws and chop saws they have a relationship with danger every single time they fire up a tool. Every single time you turn on a router with a carbide bit in it, you have to think, what's the possibility that this thing could bite me? Because it will. You got to go a certain direction on the grain of the wood, and you'll feel it when you start moving the router. Uh-oh, wrong direction. And if I go the other way, it's going to spit the wood out,

so I got to clamp it down. It's one big danger. You got to jack up a car and get underneath the car and the car weighs 5,000 pounds. You better figure it out. You better work it out. Yeah. So they have a much greater relationship with danger. And risk reward. And risk reward. And COVID did not affect them. Or whatever it was, it was compartmentalized into, well, I could get COVID, but I could starve if I don't go to Trader Joe's, so I'm going to Trader Joe's.

And that problem's all, but not the academics, and not the people sitting in cubicles. It took over their brain. And now we got way too many people sitting in cubicles, and their brain is compromised. They're not solving puzzles or problems. And they don't have a risk reward. They do not have a relationship with that. If one person dies of COVID, that's one too many, shut it all down. Which is like saying if one person dies in a car crash, nobody, no more driving. Right. Sorry. Go ahead, Doc. Well, no, there's a lot of science to support what you're saying. There is? Absolutely. Don't tell him that.

He'll never shut up about it. He just has to talk to me before he says things. But, no, it's, first of all, as far as the brain goes, yeah, the more, the brain is, first of all, we have a million year old brain. I mean, our brains really haven't evolved that much in the last maybe a hundred thousand years. And a lot of it has been around for a million years or more. So the neurotransmitters, all the different ways

in which we solve problems and engage the world, that's what we're designed for. And so to create a healthy brain, as I always talk about, at least in our center of integrative medicine, it's you gotta do a lot of different things. It's fine to be educated, but you gotta get out there. You gotta do things.

You gotta challenge your ideas. You gotta challenge your thoughts. You gotta be creative. You gotta do a lot of different things. And some of the interesting work on the oldest people in the world, these blue zones, as they call them, one of the things that they have found is that these are the people who are out there in the garden

and out there walking to the grocery store and taking care of things and just physically involved in the world because it gets them thinking. It gets them solving the problems as you said, it gets their their whole mind and body kind of engaged in the process and and that's that's part of how it all works. In addition to them being out in the gardens those folks in the blue zone are sly turns out. Did you see the recent study of everyone in the blue zones? Turns out the vast majority of

them misrepresented their age to get their retirement benefits very early and they're actually not anywhere near as old as they claim to be. Really? Yes. I did not see that. I was like, oh, that makes perfect sense. That's what they're doing.

In the country they're in. In that country, yeah. I don't know if we have blue. Well, no, I'm saying there may be Amish countries a blue zone, and we don't have blue zones in the United States. Correct. Which is not a good sign for the United States, I would say. And these particular blue zones have elaborate retirement plans and no opportunities for

these people otherwise. And so they just do what they have to do. But not to crap on the ducks point. Yes. When they talk about blue zones, they're constantly talking about diet. Yes. But they show the person outside tilling the soil and they're talking about the diet. It's a diet, diet, diet, which is what we do,

which is why we don't have blue zones, because we only talk about diet, but the person is collecting firewood and tilling the soil and harvesting the crop while, that's the B-roll, while we're talking about supplements. You know what I mean? And what I'm saying is get outside and start a garden, go wash your own car and build a tree house

and see if you don't get a little saner. But no one will listen to me, Doc. Because I think they should. I don't care what you say, Dr. Newberg, I would have this argument with everyone in my family, which is stop ordering Grubhub, make food, you know, and they go, oh, you're so cheap, you know know I said nothing to do with money nothing nothing just make your kids lunch you know it's like as when I

was getting yelled at by the young Turks Adam Carolla doesn't want kids to eat I'm saying make your kid breakfast it's important it's engagement it's nutritious I'm not talking about the 75 cents it costs me to feed your kid slop, by the way, food you'd give to prisoners. I'm saying it because I want you engaged and up in making and building it. I want the project of making your kid breakfast every morning. That's what I want and I want whatever the byproduct of that is, which is my mom or my dad sat with me and made me breakfast every morning, not the LA

Unified School District found pity on me and gave me crap. You know what I mean? I've been yelling at this for people for years and they just look at me like, why would you wash your own car when you can hire a detailer? He'll come why are you being so cheap? Okay, it was always this weird cheap thing Why don't you farm it out and I was always like you're you're missing it and I don't know why but I always knew it And maybe it's because I come from it it and maybe it's because I come from it. But nobody knows it and they argue with it and society won't sleep until every human being goes to college and gets their brain rotted instead of learning a trade. They're never presidents debate. Kamala Harris, have

you heard Joe Biden or Kamala Harris say something about a trade. We need tradespeople You know AI may take your job if you write greeting cards, but if you're an electrician It can't take your job. Yeah, and it might take your job You work at a McDonald's because we'll put a kiosk in but if you're a pipe fitter, it can't take your job Never where what who's having these conversations like what's going on? Is it all part of a, what is it, doctor? Is it an elaborate ruse? Like are they fucking with us? Are they trying to ruin us?

Like what do they want? How come no one has these normal conversations? We have an entire debate apparatus and no one says anything about jobs, like working. You know, they go, I'm for the middle class. That class that's all you ever say but I mean just talk about creating jobs vocational training not everyone's going to college what are we doing now it's Mike Rose the only guy says anything sorry doc for that day try not at all well yeah you know the thing I'm thinking a little bit about what you're talking about, I mean the garden, the rhythm of the seasons,

whatever we do in our everyday life, waking up rituals. And of course there's rituals in politics and academics and of course religion. And part of the basis of rituals is this kind of connection that you're talking about between kind of the physical part of ourselves and the mental part of ourselves. And they really are intimately connected. That's part of how rituals work so effectively, which is that they engage us and they engage all the different aspects.

I mean, a really good ritual involves movement. It involves our senses. It involves speaking or singing or whatever it is. And all these, you know, getting in touch with those rhythms is what really kind of drives us. It helps our whatever ideas that we have connect us to ourselves, connect us to the world, connect us to someone sexually.

I mean, this is the basis of the whole idea of our book, which is that, you know, when we look at human rituals, and I used to have, I had this wonderful mentor who died many years ago, but he was an anthropologist by training. What he said was, if you're going to try to understand where these rituals in human beings come from, well, they arguably have to come from animal rituals. But what's interesting is that all animal rituals are mating rituals.

There has to be this very intimate connection between everything that we're talking about sexuality and and and ultimately the brain and and our and the rituals that we have in fact Many of the aspects that you're talking about Probably have some element by which we are trying to sort of make this connection with other people. We're creating a social hierarchy we're creating a sexual hierarchy and we're creating a sexual hierarchy, and we're ultimately trying to keep ourselves, our genes, going. And it's through these very interesting processes that we can do. I'm wondering what your conclusion is.

Is the conclusion that all social functioning is one giant complex ritual to push our genes forward? Pretty close, yeah. Or are there specific sexual rituals you guys focus in on? Well, it's both. I think overall, what we're looking at, when you look at so many aspects of human life, it is sort of playing along with the same biology that

is coming from those rituals. So that's part of why these rituals become so powerful, because they are ingrained within us. They're part of our sexuality, which is arguably the most important function that we have as human beings, because without that, we don't have the next generation. So it makes sense that we would have these very powerful approaches to sexuality, mating, connecting with someone else to create the next generation. And then it just kind of, as our brain got bigger,

that was a very big part of what kind of, you know, we started to elaborate on all these rituals and they became political rituals and academic rituals and all these different ways in which we engage the world. But, and again, you know, in Sex, God and the Brain, I talk about that whole connection because I think it actually, one of the other things which is very interesting, you know, from an evolutionary perspective is that I think a lot of this

is because of sexual selection, not just natural selection. So natural selection is survival of the fittest and that's part of it. The bigger our brain gets, we can solve problems and so forth and that's important. But a lot of it I think comes about because of sexual selection. We got it, we're trying to pick up, you know, our partner. And so the better the story we can tell them, the sweeter the song, the nicer the poem, the more likely we're going to, you know, attract our mate.

And of course, but that only works if the mate has a similar kind of brain. If we have a great sense of humor and our brain and the girl that we're trying to get is, you know, doesn't have a good sense of humor is kind of a dud. Well, she's not gonna understand and we're not gonna make that connection. So we kind of have to co-evolve together

so that we have these elaborate abilities to understand the world, tell stories, sing songs, and all of that I think does kind of come from ultimately the sexual process and the mating rituals that go back hundreds of millions of years. Well, I agree. I agree in principle. One thing I would modify is the girl with no sense of humor could still hear the guy making everyone laugh at the dinner party and be attracted to him because of that.

The woman who had no rhythm and no pitch could see the guy on stage with a guitar and people clapping and go, I may not identify with him as a musician, but I can see him light up this crowd and now I'm attracted to him. But he's gotta be attracted to her too. So if he gets together with her

and he's telling all the jokes, I think there was an old Seinfeld where he kept telling jokes and the girl never left. No, but his attraction may be based more on a physical attraction. And so we can solve that problem of her not having a great sense of humor, but he's short and baldingding and she's tall and beautiful.

And so we each get what we want out of it, which is a lot of relationships. It's definitely multifactorial. Yes. I, you know, I got, it's funny you brought that up because I was thinking about it when you were talking about it, initially talking about before we even got into the humor aspect of it, but I got into trouble many years ago. What? Yeah.

That's hard to believe. But it was fake, it was fake news before they did fake news, which is- Before they did fake news. Yeah, yeah. Before we knew what fake news was. When they did it, we just didn't know it. I was doing an interview about-

It was called Satire. Yeah, I was doing an news was we did it. We just didn't know it. I was doing an interview about Yeah, I was doing an interview about 15 years ago No, it's it was sort of a good people on both sides fake news story before any of that really came around yeah, Trump really solidified it but At the end of the interview the guy said who's funnier mennier, men or women? And I said, men are funnier. But I know a lot of funny women, but men are funnier because that's how we evolved because we gotta get to women, you know,

so it would make more sense. And also, the question was asked of me. I felt that I wanted to provide an answer. I didn't wanna say say, Drew ask me, who's funnier, men or women? Adam, who's funnier, men or women? I grew up middle class, people cared about their lawns. Okay, I feel compelled to answer the question.

I surmise that there are many more male comedians than there are female comedians, and through my own experience, I happen to know more men make prank phone calls than women growing up and play practical jokes and so on and so forth. Women are funnier or it's the statistical dead heat were exactly as funny as one another right? Which I eliminated because it seemed statistically impossible to say we're both exactly have the same humor And then I thought about all the male comedians I know and then I thought about the evolution of us wanting to make the ladies laugh so that we could Get with them physically and I answered men But I qualified it that there are plenty of funny women. I know as well and even gave examples But at some point

They that evolved into Adam said women aren't funny Which of course is what you'd have to do if you were a journalist and you're just trying to and you disagreed with me about other things and So you had to just make me sound as bad as humanly possible And by the way, it's still out there like people go this the guy said women weren't funny Which obviously I did not say fake news fake news, but I did nothing wrong Defer should have known better than to be honest. Should have just talked about my lawn and growing up middle class. But either way.

You could have gotten more credit, lower middle class. We, oh, I didn't have a lawn. I had a dirt, I had a patch of dirt in front of my house. So, men use humor and evolve with humor to try to impress women so that we can keep our gene we pass the genes on Yeah, that's that's all pretty straightforward And then you just apply that to lots of things why women why women have long hair and men have short hair Well men are attracted. Well, wouldn't it be easier just to have a crew cut like as a lady?

Like yeah, it would it wouldn't be a lot less product and stuff and hassle and blow drying and the like. Yeah, except for they want us to be attracted and we're more attracted to that. I think we get that, right? You're saying men don't have attractive hair. So what are your other conclusions about sexuality and evolution? Well, I think, you know, one of the most important

conclusions of the entire book, talking about sex god and the brain, is the idea that the basis of a lot of our spiritual experiences, mystical experiences, and so forth, really are riding on the biology of the sexual experience. That's part of why, as the old joke goes, people shout out, oh, God, in the midst of sex. And that's why if you actually look at the biology itself, we have, as you know, and to let the audience know, we have what's called the autonomic nervous system, which has an arousal side and a calming side.

And when we are engaged in some kind of mystical experience, some kind of spiritual ritual, you can excite either one of those. It can be very arousing. You're dancing around in kind of these charismatic churches kind of thing or it can be very calming, very blissful like meditation or something like that. But that at the peak of these experiences, both sides come on. So you have this incredible sense of arousal and blissfulness at the same time. That's what is often described in these experiences. But that's exactly what happens during sexual experience. That's why we get aroused and then we have that incredible feeling of rush and bliss. So the biology is, it has a lot of similarities. And I think, you know,

it depends, it's interesting how many religions have found that, well, you know, sexuality is kind of interfering with our spirituality. So that's part of why if you decide to devote your life to Catholicism and you want to become a priest, then you're not, you know, can't have sex. But there's other traditions which say, gee, you know, we have this sexual energy and maybe we can use this sexual energy. In fact, that was part of what led to the discussion in the book was the study of a very interesting

meditative practice called orgasmic meditation, where people use sexual stimulation to create these kinds of feelings. And so we're really learning more and more about how the biology of spirituality and sexuality really very intimately linked. And that to me is a very important point of what we're talking about to learn about how that happens, why that happens. And then it just, as you said earlier, Drew, the idea of sort of how this kind of inundates our entire society, I mean, our morals, where our morals come. The Ten Commandments, thou shall not covet you know, your neighbor's wife. Why? Because, you know,

that's interfering with your sexual prowess and your ability to pass your genes on. Honoring mother and father. I mean, again, there's that, the idea of, you know, where do we come from and the importance of maintaining our lineage. So, so much of what we do as human beings really derives from these very basic drives and becomes a very important part of our spirituality as well as virtually every other aspect of our life. Well, let me give the name of the book out one more time. Sex, God, and the Brain, and it's available.

Barnes and Noble, Amazon, wherever you find finer books. Dr. Andrew Newberg, thanks for joining us. This was enlightening. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. It was a lot of fun. Good to see you again. Good to see you too.

Take care. All right, I'm gonna be in tonight. Nashville, Zanies in Tennessee. Come out, Adam Ray's gonna join me and Clay Travis as well. Then I'll be in Pittsburgh, sorry, Potsville, sorry, Pottstown, P-A, Soul, Joles. That'll be doing standup Friday and Saturday, four shows.

Come on out, say hi. Drew, what do you got? NotDrew.com, give us a subscribe at our Rumble channel, put us over 300,000 followers, and also leave us all a voicemail at SpeakPipe.com for the Adam and Drew show. Speakpipe.com slash Adam and Dr. Drew. We're at the microphone at the top of the homepage, adamanddrdrew.com.

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