THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.103 - EMILY DEAN

Episode Date: October 11, 2019

Adam talks with British writer and radio and podcast host Emily Dean.Thanks to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell for production support and Matt Lamont for additional editing. RELATED LINKSEVERYBODY DIED SO I GOT A DOG by EMILY DEANhttps://www.waterstones.com/book/everybody-died-so-i-got-a-dog/emily-dean/9781473671362THE DAY OF THE TRIFFIDS (BBC TV, 1984)https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2d30xfEDDIE MURPHY - DELIRIOUS (YOUTUBE)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGWYGQNBSZkTHE DAY SHALL COME (TRAILER)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR08yvgwPjE Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

you're sitting on my you're sitting on the recorder rose you you're sitting on the recorder now you're sitting more on the recorder there you go's better. Alright, Rosie, should we go? Good noise. Let's do it. I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin. Now you have plucked

that podcast out and started listening. I took my microphone and found some human folk. Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke. My name is Adam Buxton. I'm a man. I want you to enjoy this. That's the plan. want you to enjoy this, that's the plan. Hey, how you doing, podcats? Adam Buxton here. You join me out on a walk with my dog friend Rosie, and it's cold. We're out in the East Anglian countryside, early October 2019, but it is not clement. This angry-looking, low-level grey cloud moving swiftly above me, and as you can probably hear, quite a bit of wind. And I was going to spend this intro talking at length about my important opinions regarding the impeachment of Donald Trump, whether the aims of the Extinction Rebellion climate

change protesters will be achieved, and whether the UK will be leaving the European Union with some kind of a deal at the end of this month, but it's too cold. I'm just going to record this intro and then an outro, and I'm going to go back, edit them together, put up the podcast, and then have some tea. Sorry, I know you're disappointed, but there are podcasts out there that do deal with that kind of thing, I'm glad to say. But let me tell you about this episode of my podcast, episode 103, which features a rambling conversation, whoa, it's really windy, with writer and radio and podcast host Emily Dean. and radio and podcast host, Emily Dean.

Emily is one of Frank Skinner's co-hosts on his Saturday morning absolute radio show, along with Alan Cochran. And for the last few years, she's also had her own interview podcast called Walking the Dog, in which she accompanies fascinating and brilliant people as they walk their dog friends. Myself and Rosie were guests on the Walking the Dog podcast. In fact, Emily came to visit me here in Norfolk along with her producer Charlie a couple of years ago now. I think it was 2017, yes, to record our conversation on this very bit of track where I'm walking, although it was a nicer day.

Oh, it's raining now as well. When we did Emily's Walking the Dog podcast, I think there was a fair bit of dead dad chat. And there is a bit more in this one. Spoiler alert. For anyone new to the podcast, my dad died died it's one of the big spoilers in life although regular listeners will be only too familiar with that fact already but this podcast conversation was recorded with emily once again out here in Norfolk. She came to visit in June of this year,

2019. Only one of a very select group of podcast guests that has actually come to record out here. But it was very nice to see her. She came this time with her dog friend, Raymond, a Shih Tzu. They drove up from London after Emily had finished the Absolute Radio show one Saturday afternoon. And they spent the evening with us at Castle Buckles after we'd recorded the podcast. Anyway, the spur for my meeting with Emily back in June was the fact that I'd read her book, Everybody Died So I Got a Dog, which was published earlier this year. And it's filled with many entertaining stories about Emily and her sister Rachel's

frequently unconventional childhood with their theatre actor mother and TV documentary maker father. The second half of the book deals with the sudden death from cancer of Emily's sister, followed not long thereafter by her mother's death and then her dad's death. And Emily writes very movingly and with great humour and candour about the process of grieving and then moving on with her life and the part that Raymond the Shih Tzu played in that. But it's not just dead relative chat in this podcast as much as we all love that.

A lot of it was quite stupid, as I recall. Incidentally, with reference to something we were talking about quite near the beginning of the podcast, I do turn off my devices when asked to do so on planes. So please don't write in. Thanks. I'll be back at the end for a bit more solo chat, including exciting news about next week's podcast guest, which I dare say you will be interested to hear,

especially if you're a comedy fan. But right now, here we go. Ramble Chat Let's have a ramble chat We'll focus first on this Then concentrate on that Come on, let's chew the fat And have a ramble chat

Put on your conversation coat and find your talking hat. La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, airplane mode not that it makes any difference that's one of the myths isn't it that actually it makes a difference oh really i think you would be worried if it did wouldn't you to the actual avionics of the thing i used the word avionics okay so i would say yes if one iphone was able to bring down a plane that would be tremendously concerning wouldn't it yeah i appreciate that it's the volume of signals coming from all the devices of all the passengers on the plane like whatever so they have they have to make one rule. Yeah. Because it wouldn't be one domino sex that would bring it down.

Yeah. I think it's a bit like, listen, this is all total speculation based on no evidence whatsoever. But in my mind, it's bracketed with the whole thing of not being able to use your phone at the petrol station because it might explode the pumps which you don't believe that's bullshit yeah bullshit i call bullshit right that's why when i'm flying

on a plane i refuse to turn off my devices even when the steward people get very angry do you know i make a point of being really reasonable on planes sure of course because well no i do it because my sister always had this thing was that you can never argue at Christmas because it's a bit Liam and Noel Gallagher. Like it's a bit tacky to fall out at Christmas. I don't care how angry you are with me, make it Boxing Day. But you can't not be talking on Christmas Day.

That's a good... It's true though, it's a good rule. Definitely. And I feel the same as having an argument or losing your temper on a plane is just the height of naffness, isn't it? I'm glad you didn't use the phrase basic bitch. No, I don't like that.

I think that's a phrase that's going to be cancelled to use another phrase. Has it been cancelled? I still hear people using it. Oh, look at Ray. Do you think I should put him on the floor ads? No. Do you think he's happy up there? He can go where he wants. Ray looking pretty happy curled up tell us about ray while i google is using your mobile phone at a petrol station really dangerous it's like the

worst day i've ever been on i'm sat here and he's googling first day not only is he googling he's googling a sort of pyromaniac weirdo thing as well. Yeah, that would be sexy though, wouldn't it? If your date said, after ordering the drinks, I am just going to look down and Google this. So don't think I'm ignoring you. But while I'm doing it, why don't you just tell me about your dog? Okay.

Oh, I would hate that. I don't like people getting out their phone in in that situation but I also wanted to say something to you which is that what why did you do that that sounds like you're going to tell me off for something do I make you think that you're going to be told off I don't know I deserve to be told off I'm in a constant state of waiting for someone to tell me that wasn't interesting reaction though I said oh let me tell you something you went oh here we go no i'm sorry i'll tell you what i wanted to tell you yeah i i'm in a room and i love this room because it's got books here and it's got stuff of your dad's here yes and i really love that well i'll set the scene yeah

for the listeners so we're sat in the flat a converted pig shed across the way from our house in Norfolk. And this is where my dad came to live. You know, he didn't need constant care. It was just a question of managing his last months when he got cancer. So, yeah, I thought, yeah, move him in. That'll be great. And we'll bond. We'll say all the things that we never said when, you know, we were younger.

In the living years. Right. Anyway, of course, none of that happened. But we're surrounded by a lot of his stuff. A lot of the paintings that used to be on the walls of the house where I grew up. And then lots of his books, which are vaguely organized into categories no way on the left shelf here is a lot of biographies I can see a Max Hastings that's exactly what I would have expected sure two copies of the Patrick Lee firmer biography

because your dad was a travel writer he was yeah yeah but in the days when travel writing was a sort of intellectual thing in a way you know like you would write travel essays wouldn't you it used to be assumed that most of the people reading the article were not going to be able to go to the places you were writing about yeah either they couldn't afford to or it just wasn't yeah it was just beyond their means one way or another but they were still interested in reading about the rest of the world so that's what travel writing was a lot and then when cheap air travel became a thing in the 80s i suppose and some of these destinations became more affordable and realistically reachable for for readers then the style of travel writing changed and was forced to change.

And my dad always railed against that. Did he? Yeah, because he didn't want it to be just like, you know, I've got a nice pool and the buffet is blah, blah, blah. He didn't want just practical tips. He wanted to evoke an experience and a sense of place the way that his heroes had done, the way that Patrick Lee Furmer did.

You see, that's interesting. That's something we have in common because my dad made documentaries right and i think your dad was the first man on british color tv i know he was i love it but that was sort of by default that worked out quite strangely because they were doing tests back in those days it was on bbc too and i think it was sort of disastrous and chaotic i mean not right now you think there'd be some huge fanfare whereas it was i think there was sort of disastrous and chaotic I mean not right now you think there'd be some huge fanfare whereas it was I think there was a disaster one night they had to do it with a candle there was a power cut but yeah it was weird it wasn't that big a deal and I don't think when people ask me and they're quite short they're like oh that feels like quite a big thing when was that

that would have been late 60s and at the time was quite, I used to say he worked for the BBC and I would sometimes lie and say he did like Top of the Pops. Sure. Because actually what he did was like he would do documentaries about the elderly and it wasn't very glamorous. But my dad would always say about journalism, he would get very frustrated and he would say it was sensationalist. He said, you have a responsibility to describe the entire orchard.

You can't just pick out the exotic fruit I'd like that some of the things that my dad says at the time I would find them a bit pretentious and I was sort of estranged from him for a long time and I used to sort of laugh at him and now I really value them I don't know if you feel that about your dad I think you had a better relationship with your dad. It was more consistent. But I do, I look around this room, I suppose, and I see these books and I just get this feeling of your dad being here and living a really, like an educated life well spent. Well, he was from, I think, more humble background than my mum.

Yeah. So his parents were servants, kind of Downton Abbey style. Oh, really? So he grew up with that quite conservative aesthetic of wanting to better himself. Yeah. Be accepted by the establishment, really. So he was a big self-improvement guy and wanted to emulate the kind of life and the pursuits of the people that he respected from that establishment world. You know what I mean? And what effect do you think, because I had that

with my mum, I think a bit. Yeah. I mean, her childhood was absurd. I mean, it was so Dickensian and it was sort of, we would hear stories, she grew up in Wales and we would occasionally meet relatives, but she felt shame, I think, over these people, who my sister and I thought were brilliant characters. They'd be like this bloke and say, and he was a miner and then he was made redundant from the mines at 11, I think. Oh, what? Wow, that is old school.

At 11. Yeah. And you'd hear things like, oh, we killed someone and there was a boxer and there was someone who was shot. Colourful characters. They were colourful characters, exactly. It was League of Gentlemen, essentially, her background. But I think, you know, there are some people that take those characters and think, oh, this is exciting, but suddenly trade off it.

And I don't know whether your dad was like that, but my mum kept all that very hidden. I think that was the difference between then and now that generation and this i think now you would be desperate to uh flash your working class credentials in a way yeah i don't know but my dad was embarrassed by it yes wouldn't was he didn't want to talk about what his parents did what effect my mum too so what effect do you think that's had on us well i just do you think that's had on us? Well, I just... And do you think it's had an effect on us? Oh, yeah, definitely. I think it's, because he was very snobby, my pa.

It was funny most of the time and he was basically a nice guy. He wouldn't be horrible to anyone on a one-to-one basis at all unless the hair was very long. Yeah. Unless they lived in a bad postcode or... Exactly. They held knife like pen. He certainly found it very difficult to take seriously anyone that didn't have the right accent. Really? And he didn't like it when he was constantly correcting us if we said something like,

can we go now? Can we go now? Not, can we go now? He would do this voice. My mother did exactly the same ads. So she would say, sorry, I can't get it. What, I've got to get it? Do you mean I've got to get it?

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Got to get it. Would you say that to your kids though? Would you ever correct their speech? Would you ever say, don't say? I wouldn't, I'd say, don't say basic bitch. No, I mean, I have to really stop myself from constantly going on about the question at the end of the sentence. And sometimes when they came back from school and they'd be saying things like, really?

I'd be like, oh, don't start using really. Come on, like go for something else. But then I caught myself doing it. And I really do try not to do it because I don't like people. Because then you make them self-conscious, right? You speak how you want. Who cares, really? If you make yourself.

I notice people of our age, of our generation doing it. And I do slightly judge them. Also, this is, you know, clearly i've got loads of annoying little habits and speech patterns and things that i've picked up all i absorb everything yeah so it would be entirely hypocritical but it's hard to stop yourself sometimes i know although your partner who i adore um she said totes earlier and i thought we let it slide in a tolerant way because I think she meant it in the right way. Well, I think it was one of those, I hope. I have to speak to my wife later on about it.

I think she was. She was being ironic. Sometimes that's the thing. But that's the way these things get in the cells under your skin. You start out ironically saying ac spacey and then a couple of weeks later you're just a guy that says ac spacey that's what happened to me i've said things on the radio show that i do with frank skinner and occasionally people will say i'll say well he was wearing leisure wear and someone will will text in and say please this woman's speech is appalling it's

leisure wear it's not pronounced leisure so i sort of think yeah but maybe i'm that person i've still said it like someone once said to me oh it was a long time ago because my sister was alive but he said oh your sister's really zanny And he was a good looking bloke, but I thought I will never sleep with you. Could you? Zanny. There's someone who said Zanny and actually I didn't correct him

because I, I don't know, he's a bit pleased with himself and good looking and I know that's awful, but I thought that's the tax you're going to pay for a bit longer and that's just the way it goes, mate.

Have you had it on your podcast? Have you had a guest mispronouncing something and then thought i better take that out because that's no because usually i will say i would normally pronounce that oh you see i wouldn't even go that would you not no too aggressive yeah like you you feel like you're showing them up embarrassing no i i would feel they wouldn't like me. But I think they'd go home and say to their partner, I can't believe she corrected my speech.

Yeah, but you and I, we're very needy people. We are, aren't we? We're easily crushed. Why are we needy? I know why I'm needy now, because I've done a lot of work. We'll get on to that. I look forward to that. This is a great day.

You've been Googling googling okay use petrol stations at mobile phones well thanks for that segue is it really dangerous to use a mobile phone at a petrol station so is this an urban myth there is no potential threat all scientific testing has established no dangerous link between mobile phones and fuel vapors this is the top i'm all i'm doing is reading out the top hit and treating it as if it is absolute solid fact. Don't you find people do that with Googling? There's one person assigned in the group to be the Googler.

I'll do it. I'll do it. And then they read it out and we just accept it. Yeah. I mean, this looks solid. There's a picture of a woman with giant breasts and a fellow holding a big roll of stomach fat on the sidebar. And it all looks good.

No, that's not true. Okay, so it's fine to use a mobile phone. This is a website called Scientific Scribbles from the University of Melbourne. All right. I don't think we're going to second guess the University of Melbourne, all right? Okay. I don't think we're going to second-guess the University of Melbourne. No. Fact or fiction, can your mobile blow up a petrol station? This is what they taught.

I'm just trying to evoke a realistic. This is module one this season. Yeah. Module one. In every petty station. Is that what? In every petto. Petto.

This claim is total fiction. Is that what? In every petto. Yeah, petto. This claim is total fiction. This rumour has been floating around since 1999. I'm going to carry on doing this offensive accent. I'm quite invested in this character of yours who's at Melbourne University. However, there's no evidence whatsoever. And they have split up what, so and ever to make the point more. That's one word, isn't it? Whatsoever? Of course't it whatsoever it is yeah no not in the university of melbourne this is sounding very patronizing and racist and i apologize okay this myth was effectively debunked in an episode of myth busters back in 2003 the

authority is myth busters is that what happened in Zoolander? No, the car exploded, but not as a result of the mobile phone call. Emily can't actually see the website, but the bit I'm looking at right now says, We've all learned from the fatal scene in the movie Zoolander, where the whole petrol station explodes from lighting a cigarette. Whilst I do admit in this situation, not only have the characters of the movie been recklessly squirting each other with petrol, it is also a cigarette. Whilst I do admit in this situation not only have the characters of the movie been recklessly squirting each other with petrol... Recklessly?

...it is also a movie. Smoking is still a very dangerous hazard. If Derek Zoolander knew this, then you should too. Did you work on this? I love that those characters are being described as reckless in their behaviour. Yes. Yes, please. Yep.

Yes. Ad, look at this. Look at Ray. Well, we haven't introduced Ray yet. Do you want to introduce him? Emily is here with her best dog friend, Ray. Does Ray have a surname? Yeah, Dean.

Right. He's taken your surname. He's taken my name because I'm modern like that and I pay the bills. Sure, sure. Ray Dean is a beautiful, small Ewok. He does look like something out of George Lucas's lab, doesn't he? He looks exactly like an Ewok, but he's tiny and sweet. And it looks as if he's mainly hair,

so that if he got wet, he would be like a... A little rat. I would say a large rat. A little rodent-y. Yeah. But a beautiful... He's got such a nice temperament, though. And when I arrived, I was a bit worried,

because I arrived and Rosie, your dog, who I've met before and I love, she was really not very impressed by Ray. Ray's a real people dog. He'll just lie here. He lies outside. Well, Rosie's not used to seeing other people, because, you know, she doesn't see anyone

other than me and the children. But you have friends coming around here. You're making it sound like you're a bit... Not very often. Do you not? No. Do you not have people staying? I mean, yeah, but we mainly lost all our friends.

It's very easy to lose friends these days. What, they die? Yeah, you vote the wrong way you say the wrong thing and then you get cancelled i know it is harder to be friends don't you think have you fallen out with anyone i maybe we shouldn't go down this route because this is a toxic no we won't mention names or anything yeah well i tell you what i don't know about fallen out with but I think what I've discovered is that I possibly had friendships that were in my life as a result of me not having boundaries when you say that what do you mean what I mean like in your specific case well so what I was always guilty of i think and i probably am still to some degree guilty it is shame but you i think

you have to do that to slightly dismantle it because i think you're a bit frightened of sure therapy we'll talk about all right we'll get we'll get on to that um but i think my particular issue was never complaining and being likable all the time so being the perfect friend being the perfect person yeah i'll do that oh i'll fly to australia and pay for it myself this never actually happened which is what i'm thinking of something that never actually happened because i don't want to name anyone but things i didn't want to do saying i liked films because someone else liked them right some things were more extreme than others but which film did you pretend you liked that you didn't actually like?

Oh, so many films. The Colour Purple? Because... You've got to pretend you like that. Dude, where's my car? I'm sure I did. Now, what did I pretend I liked? I think anything cool for a long time.

Cool music I'd pretend to like oh really so it started when i was young with killing joke really yeah where was the pressure coming from to like killing joke well i grew up in north london and there were this sort of when i grew up in the 80s there was this sort of yeah the spear of destiny and killing joke those sort of bands yeah yeah because they weren't clean Killing Joke, those sort of bands. Yeah, yeah. Because they weren't clean cut and there was something a bit grungy about them. A love like blood, a love like blood. That was good, though.

I find that quite triggering, you mentioned that. Really? But no, I would. And I remember going to a club that everyone went to called the Opera House. Yeah. And there was that vogue for, I probably wanted to listen to Bross. Right, okay too ashamed what were you wearing well at the time i never got the fashion quite right because i would go quite smart and i

remember a boy turning around to me at this cool club and he said you look so wrong here he said something like i was classy said you're a bit too classy for a place like this but he didn't mean it nicely it was an insult and i've relived that maybe emily you process this as an insult but actually this guy he was just thinking you're a classy classy woman and don't forget as well he's probably surrounded by all the other Killing Joke and the Spear of Destiny fans. They probably look quite sad. I'm a bit confused by this character.

I don't know what it is. Because he sounds borderline creepy as well. He's a therapist, qualified therapist. What are you talking about? I spent 40 years at the Institute of Vienna. No, I don't know.

That was my particular issue, I think. Was always wanting to be liked. But what can happen with that is that you're not having authentic dynamics with people ever. Because you're never saying you're unhappy. I try. It's really hard. I found it really, I've struggled. It's very extreme.

It's an extreme makeover i guess emotionally that's taken place since since my family died right and sorry i'm not laughing at your family but it is always so can we just say you're allowed to to laugh well there's humor in the title of your book you know did you find it funny everyone died so i got a dog i'm glad because the majority of people do find it funny the title of your book, you know. Did you find it funny? Everyone died, so I got a dog. I'm glad, because the majority of people do find it funny, the title. But I worry that some people, and there's only a handful of people that have sort of recoiled a bit. I mean, I guess my dad didn't find death funny. Your dad didn't?

No one finds actually dying funny, I don't think. But my dad certainly disapproved of irreverence around the subject of death did he yeah what sort of thing so if he saw something on tv like let's say weekend at bernie's that was one of his favorites would he have not approved of that for example no he would have been scandalized and and if anyone hasn't seen it well i mean that's the reason that i personally didn't see it as well because i would i would agree with him about weekend did you lie about having seen it and liking it i could never understand why the fuck would you want to watch that i'll tell you what i lied about seeing and liking the blues brothers oh okay i didn't understand it it's weird film it is a weird film and i didn't really watch

most of it and i would quote it yeah um and really i would like films that are a bit more disney i would like trading places yeah no it's very problematic for it's a better film now they won't watch it they're very upset because it is i mean there's some pretty sexist stuff towards the end i'm anger racism i think they think i think there's all sorts of things about it the whole premise of it being offensive the premise because they're turning around the life of eddie murphy aren't they oh i see so it's the idea that you can turn around, that they've sort of said his life was imperfect because he was living not the lifestyle of someone who was white and had privilege. Yeah, but I would say in John Landis's defense that that's entirely what it was about. It was a scouring to a very large degree of that world of entitlement and white privilege and power and the arrogance that it breeds and the prejudice that it breeds. It was very much about that.

And Eddie Murphy was so overwhelmingly, dazzlingly charismatic and dominated it to such a degree that it to me it cancelled all those things out like he sort of just blew the everything apart he was the cleverest guy he was the funniest guy he was the he had all the best lines yeah but then i don't i know what you mean though yeah that's interesting i obviously didn't think that then because it wasn't in my head to to understand but it's only when i see it watch it with my god kids for example it's and i said hey you're gonna love this movie isn't it great and i sat down to experience it with them yeah and it was a bit like the audience and the producers you know the mouths are on the floor oh really well no i mean they appreciated the funny lines in it and anyway but

they were they were just and i think there's a bit, is there a... No, you wouldn't make it now. Strange bit with a gorilla. Oh, yeah, no, it goes totally off the rails. I mean, that's where I draw the line. Yeah, no, there's some really weird stuff. Senator Al Franken is in Trading Places and he is in that scene. He's one of the two baggage handlers in that scene.

Yeah. Listen, I actually love that film, but... I watched it not that long ago and I made a note and said, why hasn't this been remade? It is sort of beat for beat the perfect film. It's beautifully put together. Every scene is just like a well-oiled wide opener. Yes.

No, but also it's the art. And the cast. Holy shit. The Duke brothers though. Jamie Lee Curtis is, and they're all on top of their game. You know, she's brilliant. Dan Aykroyd's brilliant.

Dan Amalia, who was just nailed it every time, everything he was in and around that time. But at the central performance, that Eddie Murphy performance yeah it's up there i always think of kristin wigg in bridesmaids it's like note perfect amazing but not only note perfect but just something completely inspired and otherworldly and just that's

fascinating isn't it that you're right that to, do you think that's his best ever performance comedically? Well, what's the Beverly Hills Cop as well? He is very, very good in it. But I think Trading Places is a better film. Probably. Overall, it's got funny a bit. But Beverly Hills Cop. But I didn't know, again, I remember my dad saying,

and he was sort of in and out of our lives, which was interesting because he'd come back in with an opinion on stuff and that's hard because i would think well you've relinquished your right to comment actually on this you know that's always tough when a dad's absent but or is erratic you know so one of the periods when he'd come back briefly after being away rachel and i discovered raw which was the eddie murphy stand-up yeah which if anyone doesn't know and they're younger people um everyone's younger than us but it was kind of i think it was weird for me because i'd got to like him through trading places and through john landis films essentially although beverly hills cop that wasn't john landis was it who's no that's martin

breast yeah um there was something slightly sort of cozyy and photoshopped, I guess, about him. And I think I felt it was difficult being confronted with him when he was doing Raw. Raw Eddie. And that red leather. That was delirious. No, delirious, I'm sorry. But he had, that was his thing as well, wasn't it? It was a slightly sort of leather clothes.

And he was, and his comedy was, I think I was shocked when I saw his comedy because we were laughing and it was hilarious. But I remember my dad saying, he was very liberal, despite the generation he was from. And he said, I think this is awful, what he's saying about gay people. Everybody. Yeah, no, the gay people stuff especially we're in the theater and stuff and my dad was very upset by that and we did we my sister and i sort of said oh he's so

square he's so cool he was right though of course he was right but don't you feel it's tricky this area because I do believe that those negative portrayals of people do have an influence. And I think that they're discouraged for very good reason. But at the same time, I remember watching at the time and thinking, well, obviously that's bullshit. Obviously that gay stuff is beyond the pale and i didn't feel as if he was giving me license to go out and say that stuff because even then you knew that it was wrong you knew well i knew yeah you're able to say because you were brought up with a lovely dad who i met and a lovely mother and this and i said but i suppose if you hear that and you haven't had people around you with gay friends, that's what worries me about the Eddie Murphy stuff, you know, because it's the same rule for racism. I suppose it's the same rule for everything.

No, I agree. I mean, I'm not I'm not in any way suggesting that it would be great to uh get a wider audience for some of those jokes from delirious you know as i say at the time it was beyond the pale yeah and it was like what the fuck and the aid stuff and oh it was awful awful but it was just the way he spoke it was the way he delivered everything the energy was just magnetic you know and it was just the way he spoke. It was the way he delivered everything. The energy was just magnetic, you know. And it was nicely, I suppose you could say, sort of sanitized or channeled, whatever you want to say, in some of those movies, you know. And I think that's the best of him. Yeah.

I just find someone like him fascinating because I suppose he would be doing very different material if he was starting out now because people do more confessional stuff or people will sort of allude to their feelings, particularly male comedians, much more than they used to. Of course. That's a total performance. The red jacket, the, you know, I'm in control. It's quite, I hate to use the word, the phrase,

but it's toxic masculinity in a way. That whole performance was that. It was kind of penis comedy. It was like, look at me. And I wonder if he would be doing that stuff now. Probably not. He'd be turned down a lot. It was always like he comes out in a kind of crazy superhero suit.

Yes. With weird little black loafers on. Do you remember that i suppose that was a kind of michael jackson thing as well just to move on to another yeah savory topic mmm savory topic why if i've been moving so slow it's taking ages for pages to load oh it was like this when the engineer came.

He said it was fixed, but now it's the same. I'm taking a photo with my tea to put on my Instagram. Some people like to see the tea of another man. People be tripping on tea. Pick it. Y'all should brew in a nice picket. But I can't upload. Cause my Wi-Fi's too slow. What's your worst GIF, by the way?

GIF? I don't like Drake standing up clapping. I don't know what I thought, but I just think that's very first thought. When someone posts that GIF, I thought, could you not be bothered to go to the second deck of GIFs? Or Meryl Streep pointing. Do you know the Meryl Streep one? No. I'm ruining my voice. My voice has got a rising

inflection now yeah but you it's because I'm talking about gifts and I'm trying to sound young Meryl Streep when there was the equal pay Oscars or Golden Globes yeah and she stands up and does a you go girl okay I just think what do you think of gifts i think they're fine sometimes i think people are trying a little too hard to um make themselves look groovy by using gifts that feature people that are in no way like they are do you know what i mean i think if you're going to use a gift if i'm going to use a gift for example i'll try and find a schlubby 50 year old white guy with a beard and that'll be the gif. But then a lot of people just sort of go,

oh, look, this is how I express myself as someone 30 years younger who's really glamorous and of a totally different race. It's sort of Ariana Grande shrugging or something. I like that you've given me a 90s mug, one of those oversized mugs. It's like a soup bowl. Well, what I like about it is that I met you in the 90s mug. One of those oversized mugs. It's like a soup bowl. Well, what I like about it is that I met you in the 90s. Yeah.

Well, let's say how we know each other. Yeah, how we met. Yeah, because you were talking about, you were alluding to us being 90s pals. When we say 90s pals, it makes it sound like we took drugs or something together and that was not the nature of our friendship.

I met you because my childhood best friend is Janeane goldman and how did you meet jane and her husband jonathan uh we did an interview after i think the second series of the adam and joe show which is a tv show i used to do with joe cornish on channel four in the uk in the late 90s and um we were invited to do an interview for an in-flight program that jonathan was hosting really is that right yeah were you very excited when you got invited so excited and he we did the interview at his house in hamstead and maybe it wasn't that occasion but very shortly afterwards we went around there and jonathan had got a sushi conveyor belt in the living room that the staff of yo sushi had

brought round and one of the chefs from yo sushi was there and it was just at the dawn of sushi becoming a thing that everyone was into brilliant and also very peak 90s as well yeah i love that i just remember thinking whoa this is next level come on i didn't think in my mind next level because that phrase wasn't in my lexicon then excuse me i'm just gonna belch okay i'll feel like a loud belch or a quiet one i'd prefer you didn't do it at all but okay i apologize that sounded like the kind of belcher someone was belching in the archers and they had to belch theatrically when i do the show

with frank skinner i he'll sometimes if he's eating crisps sometimes he'll eat crisps in the middle of the link and then we'll just go like that he'll just wave at me so yeah how long have you been doing that i kicked into pavlovian mode i started doing it frank asked me to do it because we were mates you know yeah started doing it 10 years ago we were talking about how we met and around that time i was working in journalism and then fashion journalism i went into and i'd been a child actor so i'd been so i'd sort of grown up because my mother was an actor but not anyone you particularly know she was more theater and rep and occasionally would pop up on things.

But I worked quite a lot when I was a kid. I went to a school called Anna Sher's. Yeah, famous drama school, yeah. And my sister and I, my dad did a documentary about Anna Sher. And my sister and I, at that time, it was kind of local kids from Islington and they were all in, prior to east end i said lots of them were in grange hill who did you know from grange hill i knew them all i knew them all

um roland mark birdis who played stew pot do you know roland lee mcdonald did you know roland i didn't meet him a few times but it was a bit odd because my sister and, we never had money. We, I suppose you would call it bohemian intelligentsia, whatever you want to call it. We had books. We spent our money, I always say, on sort of black cabs. But we didn't, that's where all our money went. Oh, so you had enough money for black cabs. Oh. Hmm, okay.

But yeah, we didn't, we wouldn't pay the gas bill yeah but we had some weird first edition of some isaiah berlin book or something but yeah so so it was almost like a social experiment us going to this drama school yeah it was like it will be good for you and you'll learn confidence which is actually true but i think my sister and i remember doing first thing i did i got a part in dare the triffids and i got a part in did you i watched that yeah i was in dare the triffids good one were you a triffid no you were absolutely triffid i'm so sorry but it was good that adaptation i'm still reeling of course you are i know it was good but i didn't know it at the time i freaked the shit out of me that it was good, that adaptation. I'm still reeling. Of course you are. I know. It was good, but I didn't know it at the time.

It freaked the shit out of me, that show. It was, I didn't know, because it was a choice between that and a show called Fanny by Gaslight. That's my favourite website. What? No, that's not cool. Are you into various Victorian porn or something? I mean... Is it Fanny by Gaslight? Yeah, yeah.

It's called. I don't know much about it. It is an extraordinary title. I don't approve of gaslighting, but I'm fine with... What? I don't approve of it in that context. Not so near. No, that's dangerous.

No. But, yes, it was a toss-up between Fanny by Gaslight. You bet. And Dare the Triffids. Yeah. And Dare the Triffids. I think you chose the right one. Obviously beat off Fanny by Gaslight.

I'm completely doing this on purpose now, you know. But yeah, so I decided to do that. But I'd also, in order to prepare for Dare the Triffids, it was quite a bit, it wasn't that big a part, but it was, you know, a significant part. Was it? You weren't just an extra or something? No. I wasn't allowed to do extra work.

I had an equity card. How dare you? Oh, I'm so sorry. Wow, that's cool. Yeah, because in your book, and apologies if I'm fast forwarding. No, please do. Fast forward. But in your book, and apologies if I'm fast forwarding. No, please do. Fast forward. But in your book, you talk about the fact that it turns out you auditioned for, you tell me the story, about the French lieutenant's...

French lieutenant's woman. Woman. Yes. With Meryl Streep. Yeah. And Jeremy Irons. Did you say lieutenant or left-tenant? Left-tenant.

Left-tenant, sorry. I think left-tenant is... It's a different thing. British. Oh, is it? Is it? No. No. Leftenant, sorry. I think leftenant is... It's a different thing. British. Oh, is it? Is it? No. No, leftenant is the British pronunciation, is it?

And lieutenant is American. Is it schedule or schedule? Schedule. Okay. Anyway, you know what we're doing? Being tits. Sounding snobby and... Elitist.

Yeah, we really are. Yeah, well, we're terrible people. Well, it's not that we're terrible people, but I we did get this sense of we we you absorb this stuff apparently philip larkin said some stuff about it i'm not sure he's cancelled yeah carry on i think he's cancelled isn't he of course he was cancelled ages ago oh god anyway i had i had an audition for the French Lieutenant's Woman. Yeah. And my mother, who was an actress, and she acted occasionally. She was in a show called The Likely Lads, briefly, which was in.

Right. Because my parents got introduced. My dad was a sort of TV presenter at the time doing this art show. My mum was an actor and she'd not long come out of RADA. And they were introduced. My mum used to share a flat with some comedy writers called Ian Lafrenne and Dick Clement. Holy shit. Yeah.

So they introduced my mum. My mum said I'd really like to meet someone. Who, by the way, podcasts. Tell them what they wrote. I mean, they're sort of legendary. Well, they wrote The Likely Lads. And Auf Wiedersehen, Pet. Yes, they did.

I used to love that show. Did you? And they wrote Lovejoy. That was, they were probably cool. That makes me think when i realized my mom shared a flat with them i think she was probably in the epicenter wasn't she of 60s london would you say man you know sort of living with them off the king's road but having said that um that's living all right is being cancelled as a song why what were the lyrics there working all day for a packet of pay. That's living alright.

That's living alright. Then you get the... No. Then you go to... Then a night with the boys. We're in a pub full of noise. That's living alright. That's living alright.

Working all day for a packet of pee. So you can send a little back to the wife. Then you kiss the dames, but you don't know their names. That's living all right. I like that you went for no and I went for ask. So I'm suggesting there was malevolent intent that you didn't ask. Whereas you was like, they don't know their names. So it's okay.

I'm saying you don't even bother to ask their names. But basically, that song is very difficult. No, that's the realities of going and working abroad, because job opportunities in Thatcher's Britain are severely limited. So you go over to Germany, pick up a bit of work and right on the town spreading it around and then you have to kiss tell them a lie with a glint in their eye yes i don't like the glint in the eye it was cheeky it was just a bit of fun everyone was fine with it um yeah so your mum was living with clement

introduced to my dad and she she thought, I like him. But my dad was a bit of a... He was a bit Simon Templer, the saint. There's a lot of old references for this podcast. I'm sorry, but it's good for you to Google sometimes and find out old things. He wore a white suit. Yeah, my dad was that sort of guy, that 60s guy with a cigarette. A smoothie?

Yeah, it was a smoothie. And my mum really fell for him, but... Would you like an after eight? I think he was a bit toast of London, I think, my dad. Yeah, OK. Bazeek or Mirage? Yeah. That kind of thing.

Oh, dear. No, I get it. You get it. So I think my mom would have been very pleased with that match anyway she was an actor but i think her acting career had never really taken off and when rachel and i went to drama school that's your sister yes sorry that's my sister i think it was a fun thing to do I think my parents would often get us to do things that were sort of a bit entertaining or they felt almost like dinner party anecdotes, you know, the girls at drama school. Then by the time I was doing Dare the Triffids, I guess I'd been working quite consistently. And my mum, I was offered Swallows and Amazons, which was a big drama that they were doing, one of the main characters in it. Yeah. I didn't know this at the time, but I also auditioned for French Lieutenant's Woman.

And my mum said, oh, you didn't get the part. And I remember really crying. And I said. And that was for a big part, right? Yeah, it was Meryl Streep's daughter. Right. And I said, but I worked, I tried really hard. I thought I got that.

I tried so hard. I fucking aced that audition. I crushed. What are you talking about? And she was absolutely, she said no. It went to John Fowle's daughter. No, who wrote the novel. Yeah, but I think that was a lie. I think my parents just sort of were quite good at making up strange lies.

Anyway, I mean, listen, it's not a child named it, is it? But it was odd because my sister told me years later, what was fascinating was the collusion. So that my mum had told my sister and said, we're not going to give him these parts. There have been quite a few of these parts. So you did get it? Yeah, I got that and a few, and the swallows and amazons and a few other things. Oh, wow.

But she turned them down. And my sister said to me when I was in my thirties, she said, oh, we were talking about mum doing that thing. You slagging your parents off. And she said, well, mum can be a bit strange. It's a bit like when you got that part and i said what wait what um yeah but i i think it was complicated and i was angry at the time um but i realized i think it's it was just a bit strange for her i think maybe it was unsettling i don't know but do you think, I mean, presumably the impulse from her point of view was to keep your life simple. She probably thought this is too much too early.

I don't know. I'm trying to. Well, I think so. But I suppose what was what complicates it is because we were exposed to quite a lot in terms of the rest of our childhood so i think had she been like your wife for example who's created quite a little lovely rural idol for your family here and i get the sense it's quite an idyllic childhood but my mum wasn't that she would stay up late you know last one at the party with the champagne glass and the cigarette she was brilliant fun but she would randomly you know if you'd say why is granny

being horrible to me she'd say i've told you because she's on amphetamines darling so there was a strange i guess lack of consistency we knew everything there were no secrets from us, you know. So I couldn't, I suppose at the time, I think there was confusion over it. And I think what it gets, I don't know her motives. And I think they probably were benign in some ways. Also, I got the sense from your book that maybe she was worried for your sister. She was. That your sister would be crushed if you suddenly zoomed ahead and i think so and i think it's fascinating that i think probably subconsciously parents do

that with their kids i only understood that about the family dynamic and the setups through doing a lot of therapy in this thing that hoffman process which i'll tell you about if you want to know but i think my mum definitely there probably was a sense of wanting to protect well would you get that with you don't talk about your specific children but as a parent do you feel the need to protect one child from another's successes do you think that is something a parent feels you you have to manage and be aware of not overloading one child with too much praise if they happen to be going through a phase of doing particularly well right you know because you do become aware that the others are kind of tensing up a little and go oh god oh really always hearing about how brilliant that one is and yeah you you it's very difficult but and it's thankless as well because you know that they will grow up having a totally warped

recollection of it anyway they will turn around and call you a wanker yeah because it's fair enough they'll they'll remember the bad bits they'll remember the moments that we lost our temper and that we acted in a totally unreasonable way and that we heaped praise on one of the others and failed to recognize something good that they'd done so you can't win i mean in your book i listened to the audio book oh did you and um while i was cycling along i got to one point and the book obviously is called Everybody Died So I Got a Dog. And after the first section, which is sort of setting the scene with your family life and what your ma and pa were like and your relationship with your sister, Rachel. Yeah. Then your sister got ill and within a few weeks died, aged 43.

She was. Right. She was, yeah. She had two children. Yeah, she had an 11-month-old and Mimi was 10 and Bertie was 11 months. No, she just turned one, actually. She turned one just before Rach died. She had liver cancer. Yeah, well, what was interesting? You say interesting. isn't it funny i

use that word i say interesting it wasn't interesting it was a fucking nightmare but it was in retrospect she had colon cancer was the primary right it spread to her liver but yeah so she it was it was her colon itself and then it and then it had spread it metastasized all these funny words that you don't know and now it just is part of your vocabulary. It's like a new language. But she found out it was just very sudden. Yes. And so what was difficult was that obviously she had two kids and that made it so much harder.

But she was determined, even though she was really sick, she was determined to have a party for her daughter. And I kept saying to my mother, I don't understand why she's doing this when she's sick and she's got to have a party for her daughter. And I kept saying to my mother, I don't understand why she's doing this when she's sick and she's got to have chemo. And of course my mum's a parent and it hadn't occurred to me, Adam, that my sister knew she wasn't going to have a birthday with her child. And I thought, oh God, as a parent, of course,

that you would want that. Of course you would. I mean, you'd want more than one. But she hung on for that birthday. And I'm convinced, you know, there was some sense of her. She was determined to have that party and she was ill. You know, she put on makeup to paste over. She was very gaunt.

And she died a week after that. So I wonder if there was a part of her thinking right i'm going to make it to this day i don't know but it was very swift and it was hideous and all this shocking horrifying stuff that comes with you understand about bereavement you've gone through it yourself but yeah but it was about cycling and what happened you said you heard that yeah i mean i will say that that my experience was was totally different from yours for all sorts of reasons and you write about it very well the whole process and i would certainly recommend it to anyone who's been through that or is going

through that and there were a lot of interesting and comforting and sometimes funny insights but also the bit that made me on my bike go oh man was when you were talking about your dad and he was in the room and his response after rachel died yeah it was quite heavy he basically said to me rachel died and it was hideous obviously because my sister died and i was just sort of reeling from the shock of it it was me my brother and all my mother and she was a nice sister you liked her she was sort of incredible yeah she was because we moved around the world a lot and we were we were kind of like pets in a way with my parents like you know when victorians had menageries you know we would sort of be brought out we were like parakeets or something we were like but my sister was she, I don't know what your relationship with your siblings was like,

but my sister was that person that we had that shorthand. You know, we used to call each other C for the offensive C word. The Jeremy Hunt word. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was just an intimacy there and a shared language that a lot of siblings have. Some siblings I'm discovering, I assumed everyone was like that, but they're not. Some siblings are the sort of how you're going mate.

You know, they rarely speak. They see each other at Christmas and birthdays. I wish I saw. I don't see enough of my brother and sister. Because that's interesting to me that because I just, with my sister and I, I think we spoke probably twice a day. Right, okay. So it was intense, you know, and I did feel, yeah, I felt devastated when she'd gone. And when she died, my dad said, the best one has gone.

In the hospital room? In the intensive care, yeah. And that was really tough. But he was in the throes of grief himself. He was also in early stages of Alzheimer's. Yes, he was. I mean, that is not something you want to hear. When your sister's just died.

Let's see who it is. Is that your wife? It's my wife. Let's see what she says. Hello. Hello? What time is it now? Half eight. Shall we sit down at nine?

Yeah, great. Okay, see you in a bit. Bye. Is that our dinner? That's our dinner. Has your wife made our dinner? I should certainly hope so. We're having duck breast by the way if anyone's um offended by that i i don't know what to say at this point um they the ducks were all fine with it they they all reached the end of

some their happy lives and that was their last they weren't like humanized ducks they weren't like donald duck with the uh bolero waistcoat it was their last request that they should be consumed after a great great podcast but listen oh now we've got to do that this morning so we'll be talking about emily's dead father yeah so emily before the break you were saying that um you were absolutely crushed to the very core not only by the death of your sister, but by something your father said. Remind us again what that was. But coming up, recipes for dark breasts. No, I mean.

No, no, it was hideous, Adam. But I think it's taken me a long time to process it and to forgive him. And for me, that was something that only happened through therapy i guess but did that um at the time that must have just yeah yeah because it's very very hard to get that sort of thing in perspective especially when you're in the throes of grief yourself. Of course. And it's really going to just go round and round and round on a loop. Yeah, it did. And it confirmed everything I sort of believed about myself. It was kind, you know what it felt like?

I don't know if you've ever, someone's ever put the phone down on you and I mean this particularly used to happen more in the olden days of voicemails but someone's put the phone down and not put it down properly so you've heard some of their conversation you kind of fantasize about that happening you know we all slightly fantasize about overhearing friends talking about us we want to know what people would say it's what we were desperate to know but we fear it as well and I suppose it felt like that it felt like I'd listened in to people talking about me and it taught me that it's not something you should ever do and so that I really struggled a lot with that but my way of dealing with it back then, because it was my way of dealing with everything, was just to don this armor and be very brittle and be very sort of Madonna, screw you.

So you had like an eye patch with an X on it. I sung really out of key. No, but I did. I think I just thought that was the only way to deal with it because i didn't know any other way yeah i didn't know that you could just be vulnerable and just say oh i'm i'm really upset because i my dad said this thing i thought you had to say oh my dad's like crap dad oh my dad's just not that into me i mean that is a way of dealing with it it's does it's not dealing with it i don't believe and i sort of deferring the

the pain and i mean i think logically you you don't like your handy about the house you know that if you were to keep painting over a door eventually that paint would crack you would have to actually strip it all down that's honestly what I believe, to do it properly. If it's been properly primed. Get technical with me. Yeah. Yeah, I sort of think that's dangerous, I think, building up layers. And I know people that do that, and that's their coping mechanism.

We all know people that do that, you know. But I just, I've never really met anyone who said, I really regret all those years I had in therapy but it is hard you know and when I did this Hoffman process where you weren't allowed to speak for long periods of time and you had to hand in your laptop and your mobile phone in that you're you tell your story and no one that's I believe one of the principles of rehab isn't it people don't interrupt so there's something about owning your sort of experience so you'll tell your story or you'll say whatever your issue is and you know you're

used to friends saying I would talk about grief and I'd say oh my sister died oh my god that's awful and how and there was something really odd about just no one interrupting me no one saying anything it almost hit me that it was bad because prior to that I hadn't had to acknowledge that because you've got the distraction of other people's responses and there is something to be had from it which I suppose is the meager consolation prize for her loss and I'm not saying my parents loss wasn't a loss but that was I expected that this is a life interrupted which is different I think that you're fundamentally changed we're all changed my nieces are changed my brother-in-law's changed I'm changed we're all changed and there's empathy and there's I think I'm probably a slightly nicer person which isn't very helpful to her but if that's if the consolation you get from grief

is that that person becomes part of you I don't believe in an afterlife unfortunately I don't believe in that but I do believe you absorb that person's love I think love has to go somewhere and you absorb some of them well if my sister was the best one then I'm the best one as well now because she's in me. That sounds really naff. I'm sorry, Ad. It's probably a bit too much for you. I'm not going to be able to play the upbeat music.

You're going to have to get the R2 music. But that might help someone who's gone through loss. Is it too heavy for you this week? I'm worried it's a bit heavy. No, be daft. No, not at all. So what do we do now? How do we end the podcast? do you know how i test a person is whether i could leave my mobile phone in the room open as in password open yeah and feel comfortable and i could do that with you

i couldn't do that with everyone really Really? What kind of people are you hanging around with? Really? What? Who's going to look at someone else's phone without their permission? I know people that would do that. Do you not know anyone who would do that? I mean, I maybe someone would pick it up and look at the time or check the weather or something. No, they would

look at your messages. No. What the shit? No one does that. Only mad people do that. And I mean that in the non-pejorative. Do you think Boris Johnson would do it? Very probably. And no one would be able to complain about it.

He'd just go, well, everyone does it. Something fun. I just found this on my phone because I was... What have you found? I was with your daughter, who I absolutely love. She's charming, isn't she? So do I.

I know, but you're meant to. You're supposed to. You're supposed to. No, she's nice. She's really charming. I like her a lot. And we were having fun playing with my dog, Ray, and I just found this.

And she and your wife were falling about. Because I'd taken taken I don't know why I had this but I think I'd I'd been showing it to someone earlier so I've got a screen grab of it and it's a story I wrote when I was younger how old I guess I was about eight or something not an eight or nine it was called why did it have to be me at At the top it says, when this has finished, PTO. I did it right at the top. I'm going to show Adam here. Oh yeah, nice writing. I had always lived alone since I was nine months old. My mother had died because of a heart attack. But to make matters worse, Flora had moved to this village. My father was a drag queen who didn't like children. So another nice family adopted me.

There was Susan, who was quite a bore because all she did was read books. And there was Jennifer, who was 20 and a lifesaver. You're eight. When I read this to your wife, she said it sounded like one of David Walliams books.

Because his characters tend to be like this. And Penny, who was very pretty and kind. But last of all, there was Tom, who was very handsome. My trouble was that I could not help falling in love with him. Flora loved him too, but Flora had blonde hair. So he probably loved her better i have short brown hair it continues pto the last line i found was i froze to death and it's called why did it happen to me f-r-o-s-e i froze to death it was called why did it have to be me why did it have to be me

It was called Why Did It Have To Be Me? Why Did It Have To Be Me? Self-pity lit. Very self-pitying. And a liar and a level of exaggeration. I mean, living alone at nine months old. Oh, but it was supposed to be fiction or was it designed to be? I think it was supposed to be fiction,

but in the same way that I don't believe there's anything, you know when people say, I was joking. Right, right, right. Obviously, we both know that humour is a disguise for what we really want to say. So I think with that, my father was a drag queen who didn't like children. I think that's fascinating looking at that. Yeah. Because you can probably work out I was angry.

I wanted to be adopted. I wanted my whole family to be killed off. You wanted to live in Madame Jojo's. Yes. I wanted my whole family to be killed off. You wanted to live in Madame Jojo's. Yes. And then I was complaining about the blonde, perfect girl that everyone else loved, you see. Whoa, that's quite an insight.

What did you write? Did you have anything like that? Yeah, I found something that I wrote the other day, but I was a bit older. Oh, Adam's got a book in front of him. I've got a little book. It's a memo book. And... Oh, it is the very first day of 1977 i am seven years old and have a brother and a sister it says on the first page then it's story time here is my story and i will pronounce

the words as they are written and spelled. Onek upon a time there was a little boy called Jerry. He lived with his mother and his father. They were very poor

and they had nothing to eat. And then I use what I believe is the world's first emoji. Adam, you put an emoji in there. Yeah, I put an emoji in there. I mean, it's a crude, primitive emoji. Unhappy emoji. Then there's a picture of a guy trying to reach the cupboard, which I would do.

The table I'm trying to wrestle with perspective and foreshortening, but I'm losing the wrestle. The table looks like a sort of a chuppah, which is at a Jewish wedding. That's what it looks like. Yeah, go on. Chapter two. One day, Jerry was walking and then he saw a egg. Saw? Saw.

It's a bit like Chaucer. Sour. Sour. It's a bit like Chaucer. S-A-W-E. When that April with his sour a souter.

His sour a egg. To then he pick it up and he talk it home. When he

walk up he went to see his egg. It was hatched. H-A-C-H-T. And there in the egg was the funiest thing you ever saw. I mean, this is quite a stark contrast to your piece my father was a drag queen who never really liked

children very much well that's the thing mine was a bit toast of London wasn't it chapter 3 when Terry he's no longer Jerry has he changed his his name in the no i've just forgotten how to write a j so now it's can i say one thing i'm already struck by yeah you i've noticed you said they were very poor well it's like dickens isn't it um no i think it is. When Terry saw the fig, it saw...

What's the fig? The fig inside the egg. You know. There's a fig? There's a fig. I missed out the N from thing. I thought you meant a fig. No.

A fig. Yeah. When Terry saw the fig, it's a hoop. And there was a little label around his neck. This is what it said. My name is Nameon. Illustration of an alien. And that's where it ends

that's certainly a cliffhanger wait this is an advert for squarespace every time i visit your website i see success yes success the way that you look at the world makes the world I visit your website, I see success. Yes, success. The way that you look at the world makes the world want to say yes.

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yes continue Yes. Continue. For you. Hey, welcome back, podcats. Thank you very much indeed to Emily Dean and Raymond there. I think myself and Raymond got on very well. We both are small with round, hairy faces. And, I don't know, probably mentally we're fairly similar as well, I should think. Anyway, I was very grateful to them both for their company and their time.

And for travelling all the way to Norfolk to be on the podcast. I've included a few links to Emily's book and other bits and pieces that we talked about in the description of this podcast. Right now I mentioned in my intro that I have exciting news about next week's podcast guest. What's happening next week, I think, is that I'm going to fit in two extra episodes into this run because I got the opportunity to talk to comedian, writer and director Chris Morris of On The Hour, Brass Eye, Four Lions, and now his second feature film, The Day Shall Come, which was released in the UK

today, as I speak, October the 11th, 2019. The film was written by Chris, along with the brilliant Jesse Armstrong, whose writing credits also include Four Lions, and of course, Peep Show, which he wrote with Sam Bain, Black Mirror, and his hugely successful HBO series Succession. The Day Shall Come extends some of the themes that Chris Morris explored in Four Lions, but this time focuses on the way that the spectre of domestic terrorism is handled by US authorities. Anna Kendrick plays an FBI agent

who gets involved with what amounts to a sting operation on an impoverished and deluded Miami preacher, played by Marchant Davis, who needs cash to save his family from eviction. Amongst the film's excellent and very funny cast is Four Lions alumnus Kayvan Nov Novak, he of Phone Jack of Fame, and like Four Lions, The Day Shall Come is funny, strange, thought-provoking, and unexpectedly moving. Although I've told you it's moving now, so it's not going to be so unexpected. it's moving now, so it's not going to be so unexpected. Anyway, as well as talking with Chris about The Day Shall Come and the many real and strange incidents that inspired it,

we talked about lots of other random bits and pieces too. It's not a comprehensive career overview, but it is a meandering conversation with someone whose work I've admired for a very long time. The plan is to put out two episodes with Chris next week. The first one on Monday and the second one which is made up of a backup recording from the first session that we did which didn't record properly so basically what happened was i sat down and recorded with chris a few weeks back and at the end of the session i realized that none of it had recorded on the proper recorder and i just thought oh boll. But I did have a backup recording, which was usable, but it just felt like, oh, he doesn't do many podcasts.

And it would be good to just do it properly. So Chris was nice enough to sit down with me again and do another session where we talked about some different bits and pieces and covered some of the same ground about the film uh but then and so that's what's going to go out on monday but then when i listened to the backup there was still quite a few other bits and pieces that uh sounded fine or at least were you know good enough good enough to listen to. And certainly I thought would be entertaining for fans of his. So I'll put that out sometime next week. Either Tuesday or... I'm not sure. It depends when I'm able to get it edited. But Matt Lamont has been editing the other conversation recorded on the nice mics,

and that one is going out on Monday. So there you go. But in the meantime, go and see The Day Shall Come, and then listen to Chris talking about it and much else on the podcast next week. Right. Rosie, come on, let's go back. It is time for tea time rosie where's she gone ah i'm gonna start walking back i hope she emerges oh she's is that her who is that

is that you i can't see anything without my glasses. I don't have my glasses with me because I was reading my notes off my phone. Oh, that is Rosie. It's not a deer. Thanks very much indeed to Matt Lamont for his edit whiz-bottory on the episode you have just heard.

Thanks as well to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for his invaluable production support. Thank you, Matt. Thank you, Seamus. Thanks once again to Emily Dean and to Raymond. Thank you very much for listening to this podcast right the way to the end. I know that some people like to listen to the podcast as an aid to sleep. They find it soothing slash boring and put it on in order to drift off if they're experiencing problems sleeping. The only trouble is, of course, at the end of my outro, I shout and then there's music. So presumably that just wakes people up. Anyway, back next week with Chris Morris.

Until then, please take very good care. I love you. Bye! Oh, sorry to wake you. Bye. Thank you.