THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.134 - SLEAFORD MODS

Episode Date: October 12, 2020

Adam talks with Jason and Andrew of British band Sleaford Mods about 'selling out', Class, musical influences, the stories behind a few of their lyrics and social media. The conversation was recorded in London comedy venue 2 Northdown in April, 2019.Thanks to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell for production support and to Anneka Myson for additional editing. Podcast artwork by Helen Green https://helengreenillustration.com/RELATED LINKS2 NORTHDOWN COMEDY CLUB AND VENUE FOR HIRESLEAFORD MODS - STICK IN A FIVE & DISCOURSE (RECORDED FOR ADAM BUXTON PODCAST @ 2 NORTHDOWN, YOUTUBE)SLEAFORD MODS - 'JOBSEEKER' ON LATER WITH JOOLS (2015, YOUTUBE)SLEAFORD MODS - KEBAB SPIDER (2019, YOUTUBE VIDEO)Is Jason saying "Who knew?" or "Oh no!" in a parody of a posh accent? He's saying "Who knew?', but the posh "Oh no!" works too.LEFTFIELD AND SLEAFORD MODS - HEAD AND SHOULDERS (2015, YOUTUBE VIDEO)This a great music video filled with detailed inventiveness by directors Ewan Morris and Casey RaymondSLEAFORD MODS - BUNCH OF KUNST (LINKS TO PLACES YOU CAN VIEW)Very well put together doc directed by Christine Franz about Sleaford Mods going from obscure club act to headline stars.SLEAFORD MODS - INVISIBLE BRITAIN (FULL 2015 DOCUMENTARY, VIMEO)(From WIKIPEDIA) 2015 documentary following the band Sleaford Mods on a tour of the United Kingdom in the run-up to the 2015 general election. The documentary explores the band itself as well as examining the current political situation in the United Kingdom focusing on opposition to austerity.Directed by Paul Sng, Nathan HannawinJASON INTERVIEW WITH PATRICK WAGNER OF GERMAN BAND 'GEWALT' (2019, YOUTUBE)JOHNNY ROTTEN VS MARKY RAMONE (2019, YOUTUBE)ADAM BUXTON WEBSITEADAM BUXTON'S RAMBLE BOOK (HARDBACK) (WATERSTONES)ADAM BUXTON'S RAMBLE BOOK (AUDIOBOOK) (2020, AUDIBLE) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening I took my microphone and found some human folk Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke My name is Adam Buxton, I'm a man I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan. Hey, how you doing, podcats? Adam Buxton here. Reporting to you from a farm track in the east of England,

towards the middle of October 2020. It's a nice day today. Well, it's nice just at this moment. It's been raining all morning and the forecast for the foreseeable future is... Let me just check. Maybe it's changed. But the last time I looked at it, it was looking bad. Forecast for this week.

Oh, yeah, it's still bad. Monday rain. Tuesday rain. Wednesday rain. Thursday rain. Friday rain. Saturday rain. Sunday rain.

Monday, a little bit of sun. Tuesday rain. But anyway, right now, sun is out. It's cold. I'm not going to lie. It is cold. Got my puffer puffer jacket on. Bitey wind, check.

Big dramatic clouds, check. Should have bought my gloves, check. But I'm not complaining, it's nice. The sun is on my face. Myself and my dog friend Rosie are enjoying the solitude. We don't have to worry about how to handle it when someone you haven't seen for a while comes up and gives you a hug because they think you'll like the hug and I do like the hug but at the same time there

is a pandemic and I just don't think it's appropriate and I hope you don't take it personally but it's too late for that now because possibly both of us have got coronavirus we don't have to worry about any of that out here. Isn't that right, Rose? I don't know, I'm a dog. Anyway, let me tell you a bit about podcast number 134, which features a rambling conversation with Jason Williamson and Andrew Fern from the English electronic punk music duo,

Sleaford Mods. Though I imagine most of you listening to this are already familiar with the band, here's a few introductory Sleaford Mods though I imagine most of you listening to this are already familiar with the band here's a few introductory Sleaford Mod facts for the open-minded podcats or Tomps as no one calls them who are checking out this episode despite not really knowing what to expect

welcome Tomps yeah don't know about that one Sleaford Mod facts Andrew and Jason started performing together knowing what to expect. Welcome, Tomps. Eh, don't know about that one. Sleaford Mod Facts. Andrew and Jason started performing together as Sleaford Mods in Nottingham around 2007, with Andrew responsible for putting together backing tracks featuring sparse and often deliberately basic beats, bass, guitar and keyboard parts. In live shows, Andrew fires these tracks off from his laptop, then stands back, sometimes with pint in hand,

nodding along to the beat, while Jason delivers vocal accompaniment that sometimes sounds like angry and bitterly funny performance poetry slash rap in the tradition of John Cooper Clarke, and at other times features elements that are strangely soulful, even melodic. I describe them as the Pet Shop Boys on cheap speed. What do you think of that, Rose? I'm like a music journalist.

Really good. Thank you. Oh, windy. I'd heard a few bits and pieces of Sleaford Mods in the early 2010s, I'd heard a few bits and pieces of Sleaford Mods in the early 2010s, but it wasn't until I saw them performing their track Job Seeker on British music TV show Later With Jewels that I got more excited. Here's a clip of that performance. Desperately clutching on to a leaflet on depression Supplied to me by the NHS It's anyone's guess I'll go here

Anyone's guess I'll go I'll suck on the roll I'll pull your jeans off Fuck off, I'm going home Job's a car wonder Job's a car too By the end of 2015, Sleaford Mods were getting used to being the toast of the British music press, who celebrated their embittered explorations of austerity era Britain, culture and working class life,

while Iggy Pop, on his BBC Six music radio show, described them as definitely the world's greatest rock and roll band that's what Iggy Pop sounds like I watched a great documentary about the band called Bunch of Kunst Kunst or Kunst being the German word for art which features great footage of some of their early performances along with some of the shows that helped them break through to a wider audience, juxtaposed with behind-the-scenes footage of Jason and Andrew adjusting to their higher profile

and other people's expectations of what they do and what they stand for. You can watch the documentary in full on YouTube. There's a link in the description of this podcast, along with links to that performance on Later With Jewels and a few music videos and interviews that I particularly liked. My conversation with Jason and Andrew took place in April 2019, shortly after the release of their 10th studio album,

Eton Alive, as in the school, Eton. So, it being pre-COVID times, we were in the same room together, without protective gear. In this case, we were in the King's Cross comedy venue, 2 North Down. Very grateful to the folks at 2 North Down for their help back then. I hope they're doing okay.

Oh, it's suddenly gotten non-clement. Wind and rain. Anyway, I talked with Andrew and Jason about selling out, class, musical influences, the stories behind a few of their lyrics, and Jason's love-hate relationship with social media. Jason and Andrew also performed a couple of tracks for me, Stickin' a Five and Go, a kind of twisted Twitter revenge fantasy, of twisted Twitter revenge fantasy, and Discourse from the Eton Alive album. Now, unfortunately, on the day I had a bit of a technical meltdown when I was recording the performance, and the mic that Jason was using didn't record. But I did have my backup recorder running, so I was able to use that. And I think, all things considered, it sounds pretty good.

I'm very grateful to Andrew from the band who helped me in the process of getting the recording. Sound as good as possible. Cheers, Andrew. Right, look, that was a long intro. Let's get going with Sleaford Mods. Here we go. Ramble chat, let's have a ramble chat. We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that. Ramble Chat La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, We're set in a venue called Two North Down in King's Cross. It's a very small comedy club, and I've done a few warm-up shows here. Do you ever get to play these sizes of venues anymore?

I mean... No. Not really. I've had a couple of smallish ones on the tour. Kendall was like a little step. Do you miss these sort of shows? Or are you happier to be in bigger venues now? I think it depends all on the audience if they're kind of active or just you know connected to it in a physical way it's better

but if it's just static i mean i'm lost in a world of remembering the words but andrew can see he gets more annoyed by it just you know it's like if people have just stood there i mean i know they're paid and stuff and they can do what they fucking want but it's sometimes it can be a bit well aren't you going to move

type thing yeah sometimes move a bit you know yeah yeah are you

playing a load of shows at the moment yeah sometimes yeah there's quite a few good interviews with like European journalists with you guys yeah

and a lot of the time they tend to ask quite fruity questions. You know what I mean? Sometimes they just go in there. So what do you think about some guys think you have totally fucking sold out? They'll just go for that. You don't play for any working class audiences anymore. All your audiences are middle class. What do you think about that?

for any working class audiences anymore. All your audiences are middle class. What do you think about that? Do you ever get irritated by those sorts of questions? I mean, you seem very reasonable when you're doing interviews. No, I don't. There's always a bit of like a language interpretation barrier in a way. You've chatted with them before and you kind of get where they're coming from. So they're not really being aggressive or anything.

Right, right. Yeah, they clearly like your stuff yeah yeah uh you were talking to a guy called uh i think patrick wagner maybe right of a band a german band called gewalt oh yeah yeah you're talking about getting more successful you said i want to get as big as i can but i don't want to be a fucking wanker as far as getting more successful. And I was thinking like, that's hard though. Which musicians have pulled that off that you can think of that have become really successful but haven't become total assholes?

Well, I don't know. Some of the old school probably. McCartney, people like that. I don't know really. I mean, I don't think I'm a wanker. I'm sure Andrew doesn't but I bet somebody

who came to see us four years ago in wherever probably now thinks we're wankers you know what I mean it's all down to

other people's perceptions isn't it I guess yeah the sell out bar is different for everybody in every way you consider selling out it's like

Johnny Rotten doing a butto advert you know if he did that at the beginning of his career, it would have been awful. Yeah. But when he's really old, it's kind of fine. You know what I mean?

Go for it, you know? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So it depends when you do these things, I think. I think so. I think a lot of the time... There's some taste to it. Yeah, it's self-financing, isn't it, as well?

Yeah. It's like Iggy Pop's saying with that credit card thing or whatever. That's right, with the rubbery pop doll. That was a weird one as well yeah it's like iggy pop same with that credit card thing or whatever that's right with the rubbery pop doll that was a weird one as well just you need the dough don't you i guess yeah i always feel like that but people um especially online obviously in the youtube comments section oh god it doesn't take much to um draw an accusation of selling out as far as a lot of those fans are concerned, and I imagine most of them are like 13-year-old boys, you know. They just learned about the concept of selling out and now they can't wait to accuse someone of selling out.

You know what I mean? You fucking sell out. And as far as they're concerned, I think if you do anything that is in any way commercial or if you don't just stay exactly as you were when you started out, then you sold out. They just resent the idea that you would develop

in any way. Because you're no longer the thing that they liked. Why aren't you the same? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got accused of selling out by some guy on Facebook because we were playing the Theatre Royal in Nottingham and not Rock City. He worked at the local sorting office

and I got a mate who works there as well and he kept taking pictures of him through the sorting office and going, look at the cunt today! Look at the cunt! Look at what he's wearing! This is the guy that was accusing you of selling out? Yeah, yeah.

Oh man, there's a funny video though, speaking of Johnny Rotten. In fact, it popped up in the sidebar When I was watching the video of you talking to the German guy from Gewalt Like all these old punk guys Getting together, this year I think Oh I heard about that

And it was Johnny Rotten and Marky Ramone And he kicked off didn't he Yeah, but Johnny Rotten was just absolutely hammered and just talking total bullshit like it was impossible

to pin down where he was coming from yeah you know what I mean great and Marky Ramone started talking about how

you know when the Ramones started playing it was so exciting we were just saying whatever we wanted and there was no rules. And then Johnny Rotten starts going, what?

The thing, that's what? And starts making noise and going, that's bullshit. It's bullshit. Because the thing about punk is that it's supposed to be about saying fuck off and you don't do what people want you do what makes you

feel good don't you and that's what it's all about and that's so everyone's sort of going wait what's your point are you disagreeing with him or are you it was very confusing and you can see henry rollins at the end going oh dear why am i sat with this so you don't want to end up like that no with the kind of music that you do and the things you talk

about and the lyrics and everything people are immediately going to say well you don't come from that world anymore you've transitioned how can you still be singing about that world and that's that's for me tied in with this idea of cultural appropriation which is so prevalent now that people have a narrower and narrower idea about what you have the right to sing about and to, to talk about and to deal with in your art, whatever it is. Yeah. How do you feel about all that stuff?

Yeah. I mean, I've recently accused various acts of appropriating sort of class culture. So really, I can't really say anything about, I'm probably just as bad, but if anybody ever asks us that question, it's like, well, us i've done my innings and you know someone online accused us of not being able to do job seeker anymore one of the old earliest jukes because uh we obviously no longer

job see no longer jobs everybody in the audience isn't a job seeker and they like it because they remember a time in their life where they were unemployed so that's why everybody loves that song not because they were unemployed yeah sure

yeah and you know I sort of said well we've got a right to do it because we've spent it's our song it's our song

we've spent a long time languishing in that atmosphere environment and everyone wants us to play it as well that's the other thing it's why it's still in the encores you can't not play it you wants us to play it as well. That's the other thing. It's why it's still in the encores.

You can't not play it. You can't not play it. You just can't. It's like one of the old ones. Every band has its classic tracks that it has to keep playing, you know. What if you're an audience member and you never were a job seeker?

Does that mean that you have no right to listen to it, to enjoy it? Does that mean that you have no right to engage with another person's life or perspective or memories? It's just a really odd way of looking at things, I think. Yeah, it is, definitely. When people started talking about Sleaford Mods as being like the voice of blah blah blah.

Yeah, that was a bit odd. You must have thought... That was a whole tour of interviews that year, I think it was 2014 maybe, where we had to keep knocking that down, do you know what I mean? Yeah, I mean that must be a total nightmare as an artist, once you start being told you're this or you're that. Yeah, it's difficult. I probably loved all that shit in 2013, all the class thing,

you know, with the whole sort of coalition coming in and austerity and, you know, stuff like demonisation of the working class, Owen Jones's book and everything else and all, you know. And we were just moaning, weren't we, really? That's all it was. It was like, fuck this. And I did connect with it because it was, in a sense, class conscious. It was gaining that consciousness about it whereas before i'd never had that and i didn't think about it in those terms but when that was presented to us i started to think about that and think well yeah they got a point so i started

looking into it to a certain degree we took it by the hand or rather i did you know vocally in interviews but yeah after a while it did her head's in it was like oh for fuck's sake you know because it was it was presented to us through questions in such a crap way as well because it's just observation it's not i wouldn't say it's class politics we haven't got a manifesto we're not left certainly not right you know what i mean but it's weird with the class thing because the middle classes obviously get a load of stick because, because why, why do you think that is? Why, like, for example, with the climate change demonstrations over the last week in central London here, a lot of the people were knocking the demonstrators for being ostensibly middle class, like sort of saying, oh, it's all right for you.

You don't have jobs that you have to go to. So you can fanny around with your pink boat. But I just thought that's a weird thing like why are they being demonized what is it about the middle classes i mean i've got some ideas but i'm interested to hear what yours are there's like a poverty class now you know i mean so if you're in that bracket i used to be unemployed and whatever happened in politics didn't affect me you know people going oh what's happening in the country blah it doesn't affect me at all whatever happens so with brexit now if you're unemployed for example it doesn't matter whether you talk about the super rich or the middle class to you they're

the same thing because you're just not in the race at all are you you know as an employed person you're just not part of society no so you look at the whole thing totally differently and i'm not saying that's why middle-class people it's kind of more to do what you've seen before but you know a lot of the middle classes used to be working classes yeah and they changed their lives yeah they engaged in social mobility yes they got educated i think and found skill sets didn't they you know yeah um i don't know when I think of middle-class culture, I think of female, male, solo, acoustic artists covering classic songs, destroying my ears in coffee shops or something.

Right, right. For me, it's not really a class thing, you know, it's just that mass culture thing. It's just people mindlessly drinking Coke. That's more of a... You know, you can be middle-class or working-class. thing you know it's just that mass culture thing it's just people mindlessly drinking coke that's more you know it's got you can be middle class or working class if you're not conscious about what you're doing then it's worse if you're working class and you're doing that because you're just feeding this economy that's keeping you poor you know yeah and that's the thing is

the economy it's it's more sort of a capitalism thing isn isn't it? I've heard you, Jason, talking about the idea of a lot of music becoming gentrified. Yeah. But that's a financial imperative, to make stuff that is accessible to everyone, that doesn't exclude anyone. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's a soundtrack for your financial bracket. Yeah, it's polite. It's inoffensive, because that'll make the most amount of money. I mean, there was talk about it,

like middle class are taking over the music industry and you're getting a lot of acts that are middle class, sort of band solo artists. But there are a lot of working class, I would imagine, especially in the X Factor culture, where a large amount of people applying for these things are from sort of working class backgrounds. Yeah, which is fine as well.

They are, it is a middle class spread. they are like a big majority of the people if you like probably have more equipment at home to make music i'm just defensive because i've got a very middle class podcast right okay okay i mean what is it anymore though you know i think you know it's it's it's sort of being comfortable isn't it it? It's not having to worry. It's like, leave me alone. Let me just get on with my nice little life. I'm not going to engage anymore with things that matter. But you see, I feel as if the climate change protests give the lie to that.

A lot of middle class people are. They worry all the fucking time. Yeah, sure, sure. About all that stuff you know what i mean they are engaged with these things there's a shift in like rap music grime drill whatever you know there's been a massive resurgence and i would say that that would be more of a working class uh yeah thing where's the middle class rap uh well yeah you're not just i mean there's a gap in the market yeah and. And sort of white guitar bands, they largely get ignored

because they're still in the vein of sort of, you know, your 90s Brit pop type thing or the kind of more traditional approach to songwriting. You get the kind of white guitar bands that are focused on now seem to have clearer accents and just seem to be not very interesting. Not that that kind of white working class band, like the Sherlock's or something like that are interesting,

but, you know, they're not as picked up by the media as say, I don't know, idols, something like that. You know what I mean? Who are largely more grafting towards the middle class type thing.

Yeah. But I think it's kind of important to have those bands as well. You know what I mean? Who are largely more grafting towards the middle class type thing. Yeah. But I think it's kind of important to have those bands as well, you know. Sure. Because that's the working world. That's the people having kids. Yeah. And there should be a soundtrack. You know, I'm an 80s kid.

I had a great time growing up. Yeah, what were you listening to? Everything, you know. How old are you? Petra Boyz. I'm 47. Okay, so you're a tiny bit younger than me but yeah i was listening to uh it was really fun are you the same sort of age jason yeah yeah yeah 70 yeah not 70 yeah you look great but yeah it was great growing up in the 80s

because you had such a strange diversity of music in the charts you know there was like really good soul and and dance music metal yeah you know and weird sort of experimental music and odd pop that you just thought where the hell is that coming from like bands like landscape do you remember landscape yeah einsteiner flying lizards flying lizards yeah well everyone wanted to be more decadent and elegant didn't they in the 80s you know so even if you were poor you didn't want to show that you were poor you wanted to make a video that looked kind of like yeah exactly it was aspirational wasn't it it was like that's what you're getting from spandau ballet and stuff and what were you

listening to in those days jason? Just straight mod stuff, really. Yeah. Jam, Motown, and Psychobilly. What sort of bands? Meteors, chiefly. King Kurt, Guana Bats, Tall Boys, which were an offshoot from the Meteors, and Nigel Lewis.

Stuff like that. I didn't stray from that, was that a good scene i think it was peer group pressure initially and then it became quite passionate about it right and was it kind of all encompassing like did you it was yeah because everybody else is doing that you just wore fred perry smoke benson and hedges you wore bowling shoes and you wore tapered trousers and you wore those out of school and in school you know and white socks and then what were you doing of an evening uh well you wouldn't do anything i didn't i didn't start drinking till i was 16 just hanging out hanging around memorials isn't it yeah that's all you used to do are you both nottingham um i'm from grantham

he's from grantham i'm from a village near lincoln but we both moved to nottingham guys? I'm from Grantham. He's from Grantham. I'm from a village near Lincoln. But we both moved to Nottingham at a similar time, but didn't meet for like 20 years. Right. Because we were kind of living in different scenes, I suppose. Yeah, yeah. And then when did you graduate from that psychobilly scene into something different?

When I left school, I worked in the factory for a year and got into hip-hop obviously def jam had come along i got massively into that i discovered james brown and started listening to anything that was coming from the def jam label really then after a year of factory work for fuck this no what sort of factory was it? It was a fresh foods factory that was supplying ready-made meals for M&S. And I worked in the butchery bit. So, yeah, you know, I did that on and off right up until, you know, 2008, 2009. What were you up to at that time, Andrew? I was just thinking this.

When the Smiths came along, I only listened to the Smiths for years. You know, they kind of ruined my life. I was a massive Smiths fan. You don't listen to anything else because you're just obsessed with that band. Yeah. What was it about them? I don't know. I guess I related to it, you know, coming from Lincolnshire

and feeling detached from the world. Yeah. I had a horseshoe quiff. I had, like, it all shaved around there and out the middle. And then people used to throw pennies at us. I mean, my mate had a hair like that. He'd be sitting there, like, wampy, like, bouncing off your pint glass.

Why were they throwing pennies at you? Because I think it was, like, a coconut shire joke. Oh, OK. Because your hair looked like a coconut shire joke oh okay i got you i got you a gift now feel free to leave these gifts behind if you don't want them i won't be upset because sometimes you get gifts you're like oh christ now i'm going to carry that around i got you a stylophone analog synthesizer that That is fantastic. So you don't have one of these already, do you?

No, I don't, no. What sort of stuff do you use then, Andrew, to build up the tracks? All sorts. I used to just use Acid, this program called Acid, just like a multi-tracker. But then when the iPad 2 came out, I went mad on that because it's just amazing for synths. And when you've got no money, £2.99 for a Moog. Right. Are those bass sounds?

Yeah, I've got a bass cab at home, so I play stuff. But I just use anything. So that's you actually playing the bass, is it? Yeah, it depends which track it is. Some of them are produced by chopping up wavs, but a lot of them are just bass lines, yeah. I've switched it on. So rather than the old stylophone,

this one produces... It's a bit more like a little weird mini Moog thing. Wow. So you can really screw around with the sounds and you've got some various buttons on the side there. There are other options as well. Wow thank you. I'm definitely right to check this. Okay.

Okay, I'll put that down now. But it made me laugh. I just thought... That's awesome, man. Thank you. Turn it off for a little bit. Sure. I'll annoy everyone on the train on the way home. Oh, big time.

It made me think of you guys, those sort of minimal, strange, slightly harsh sounds. Thank you very much. Thank you, yeah. And then how does it work like you will put a piece of music together and sort of just say okay this is two minutes 30 yeah and i'm happy with that and are you thinking about where jason's gonna sing or are you just just the vibe really

right i'm pretty sure that it's something that you'll like. And so you get an MP3 or something, do you, or what? Yeah, we've got a little folder on DB called Ideas. He just lobs them in there, and then I'll just keep going to them. I'll make an initial idea out of it straight away almost, and then I'll keep thinking about it, and they'll be running around my head. Then I'll go back and I'll record an idea over the top of it. And then I'll just keep modifying it until I feel it's good enough.

And then we take it to the studio and then Andrew has the final say, really. It's just done really quickly once we go into the studio. I wanted to ask you a bit about some specific tracks are you okay talking about the story of some of the songs yeah sure okay so kebab spider which i mentioned earlier on i really like that video the old guys jumping around because i'm one of those old guys um but a lot of people i've noticed think that you are saying at one point i think the lyric is who knew who knew yeah but in your accent it sounds like you're taking the piss out of someone saying oh no yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah sure which

is weird isn't it well it's not it's just british dialects for some people the dialect yeah it changes doesn't it so You're just saying it all to look good. You're just saying it all to look good. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no. They got the experts in. Oh no. Oh no.

Oh no. They let the film stars in. That's quite a nice little accident though in a way. Yeah, I mean, I do say who like that or who like that. It just depends on whether you can be asked to pronounce it properly. It's a bit Nottingham, isn't it? Who knew? Who knew? You would normally say it like that because it's easier.

And I just didn't think people would even think about it, but it became a thing, didn't it? It and i just didn't think people would even think about it but it became a thing didn't it it's funny isn't it because in their minds you can see that they're already putting their expectations of what you do onto even something as tiny as that as tiny as that yeah you sort of taking the piss out of posh people absolutely incredible who knew i think it is funny though yeah the other one was when you say that thing about I don't want to go near it I don't want to go near it

oh yeah top it up top it up take me away from it take me away from it I don't want to go near it take me away from it and everyone thought it was

I don't want to go near it take me away from it I don't want to go near it is that Sam I don't want to go near it I don't want to go near it. Is that Sam? I don't want to go near it. I don't want a canary. And then someone on Twitter was actually saying, it's I don't want to go near it, not I don't want a canary.

So there's more people out there that... I don't want a canary. That's great, isn't it? Because my gran used to have a budgie, you know. Did yours, like, in the cage? There was a big thing, wasn't it, in the 70s? It was a big thing. Yeah it yeah it was it was a big thing yeah you'd go into older people's houses and you just hear

just like yeah it was and it was like tropical concrete hellhole can't make it up again that's an accent thing yeah that's from key markets yeah i'm gonna do the middle class reading of of your lyrics riding motorbikes from the 50s you live in carlton you twat you're not snake fucking plisket you're shit you look like Rocket from the Crypt so who are you thinking about with those lines, is that just sort of local bands there was a local band, it was having a pop biker band, who was it I can't remember what they were called now

but they were just totally they'd missed it they'd customised themselves up, this look that had been and gone that old Rocket from the Crypt that was retro when Rocket from the Crypt did it

every now and again it sort of comes back round doesn't it like Black Rebel Motorcycle Club yeah who else, John Spencer it's a perennial rock look it's very theatrical though. As soon as you see a band come out like that, you do sort of think,

that was the thing with Black Rebel Motorcycle Club. I was like, don't act like we're going to take you seriously. Look at you, you're dressed up in the costume. Yeah. We played a gig with them. Their roadies were lining up all their instruments.

Do you remember? Yeah, yeah. And I said to one of them how many guitars has he got there mate he just didn't even answer me i thought you're an arsehole jesus christ and then they did that thing where they went on some awards show and got all monosyllabic do you remember that oh no what happened there it's the enemy awards or something like that but they either they were giving away an award or accepting one but they did that thing of turning up and feeling like they were too cool for it oh yeah so they couldn't they had to just

sort of be weird and uh in those situations you just think well don't go to the awards yeah yeah i mean just no style with it i can't remember seeing the awards once and uh dave stewart received an award by via video from home. And he had a stack of keyboards next to his pool and like a silk dressing gown on, you know, getting the award. I mean, that's style, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He didn't turn up, but then, you know, he still dissed the award and took the award and said thank you as well. Yeah.

Brilliant. took the award yeah and said thank you as well yeah brilliant well the performance on later with jewels was the thing that a lot of people saw that they hadn't seen you guys before yeah yeah i certainly saw that and i showed it to a few people and it was like no disrespect to the mighty later with jewels but it i'd sort of stopped being surprised by a lot of the bands on it. A lot of great bands on there, you know what I mean? But very seldom did you watch it and think, fucking hell, what's that? Yeah, sure, sure.

And then you guys showed up and it was just great. Was that fun doing it? Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was quite nerve-wracking. It was, yeah. It did feel like that. It did feel like it was a big exposure. Yeah, it was. was being in that room

i can remember before the second track jules was doing a track with some guy at the piano i can't what band it was but they were doing it and i was just stood there doing that and i looked across the room and labby sifra is like laughing at me andrew is doing the head wobbled side to side dance you know that thing he you do that your head leads and then your body follows yeah what is that move it's i don't know it's good sort of uh it's like a break dance yeah yeah break dance move isn't it from the robot days and he was like crying with laughter at what i was doing i was like oh my god he'd like a sifri laugh i didn't get such positive reaction from bururt Bacharach.

I saw this chair sat there and I looked round, it's Burt Bacharach with a point. I was like, fucking hell. I went, all right, mate. He went... Just nodded and looked at me. Silent nod. Yeah. That was after you'd performed, was it?

It was, yeah. You blew Burt's mind. It was crazy. I was thinking, Jesus Christ, all that history. Yeah, yeah. It was like, I guess, praying against the Great Wall, isn't it? Uh-huh. All that history there, just touching it.

Yeah. Fucking hell. It was great. And the thing as well that was, I i mean there's so many memorable things about that performance and seeing you for the first time but i guess the intensity of your performance jason with your tics yeah you're sort of slapping your head yeah which i suppose again that that's sort of in the tradition of of someone like um ian curtis yeah really intense kind of performance where it feels as if you're channeling something else or

well it was to remember the words that's how it developed and for some reason it helped me breathe before I learned how to breathe properly with my stomach it was almost like you're kicking your body into touch every time you felt like you were like but it would also help to remember the words it was like a comfort thing it was quite a different way of doing a vocal i suppose back in the early days you know because i wanted to rap and it wasn't exactly rap it came out the way it did but we realized that it was very good and it was like fresh ground for both of us wasn't it it's just you know yeah you do that i'll do this and was there a discussion andrew about what you were going to do

like in the early days did you say like oh I should pretend that I'm doing something no, when CD was out Wank, he was playing in gigs in Nottingham, I wasn't there and he asked me to stand there with him

so it kind of developed didn't it, it just sort of naturally evolved into what it is you know you get people saying now what have you ever thought about having a guitar or having an instrument it's like no why am i going to ruin it you know you don't know you don't need it especially as you suspect that half the time when you're watching djs doing a performance they're not doing anything no no they're just They're just pretending. I've done that. I used to DJ sometimes, and I'd make all the mixes before on co-tools,

and then I'd burn a CD. Sometimes I was even having a conversation with someone at the decks, and I'd just say, hang on a second, I've just got to do a segue, because I knew that there was one coming up. And I'd pretend. I was like, yeah, okay, here we go. That was smooth. Okay, smooth okay yeah sorry what were you saying i think surely a lot of people do that absolutely yeah yeah and it's great that you

just stood there nodding away i think i think a lot of electronic artists like appreciate that attitude because of what you're saying people faking it and because I'm outing the fact that I'm not even pretending yeah sort of a derogatory glance at technology yeah

you know it's great video phones are up there as one of the worst inventions ever I don't do bestiality babe put it away

and go get me another Stella please we finish up around six o'clock, but there's still lots to do. I know the chisels come in, so I volunteer to finish it off.

All right, mate, there's your thing. You are on your own. I've got a chip off. No problem. I've got four bags of spoke, a demo to listen to, a bit of that. Do what you want, man.

Yeah, you fuck off. Some more lyrics for you. Some of these plants are burnt. I might need to have a number two on your loo, if that's all right, sister. I think that was a little more information than she needed, but I'm too pissed, and this is hardly a formal setting. What's going on in some of these plants are burnt?

Well, I agreed to go and help my mate cut weed cut it yeah cut off the plants and so i think i owed him money for some cocaine and plus he promised me a free wrap a gram of cocaine if i did it all okay. And not hoisting duck rap. No. Yeah, from Pratt. Yeah. Which are nice, actually. And I thought, well, you know, I didn't have any money at all. I'd blow it all on drugs at the start of the month.

So the rest of the month was just work. And then I'd stay in it the weekend. If I got lucky, if I managed to scrounge a tenner off someone. What is this, in your 20s? 30s right okay uh early to mid 30s uh you know i could go out on a saturday or sunday you know and this also offered the chance of being at a couple of three tinners as well so so i did it and we got to this woman's house and he was in partnership with this woman with weed and so we're cutting it and um yeah and that's what it was just that it was quite a banal experience really but at the same time i mean she was showing this video of

this this woman in sex with a horse and and kept showing me and it was like and then her dad came at one point so we had to hide in a bedroom and me and my mate sat on a bed with these marigolds on and it was quite surreal and wow that's kind of weird northern breaking yes yeah and then you know i did go for a poo in a toilet uh and i didn't feel that guilty about it this is a human race you kip and your disgrace chopped heads on london streets oh you zombies tweet, tweet. Defied an exit. 2014.

Again, good Funboy3 style chanting on there. Ah, yeah. Like the lunatics have taken over the S&M. Yeah, yeah yeah is that what you were thinking it wasn't it was it wasn't the idea but when we did it i did it sounded like it yeah which we were like oh fine you know it's great i was listening to more specials a lot at the time i think and uh i think that's where it came from i don't know why but it did sound like Fun Boy 3

rather than the specials yeah that's a good sound yeah and then is that thematically connected with sticking a five and go

would you say the Twitter thing the social media thing or is that yeah yeah I would I suppose you could say that

yeah yeah I don't know if it wasn't a conscious, you know. I think just that you live your life on your phone. I do anyway. Yeah. You know, I was looking at ordering an even bigger one today,

and I'm just like... You're not going to get one of the folding ones that they had to withdraw because they broke. Really? Yeah. Apple? No, I think it was a Samsung, wasn't it? Or something like that that's foldable.

Okay. So it's just a phone size, but it's double thickness. Oh, okay. And you can just unfold it and then there's a screen that's in the middle that's double. Why is that good? No. Had to retract them all. Yeah, but then everyone mocked the ipad as being pointless when

it came out and suddenly everyone's like oh actually this is great yeah i mean you've got one you you use it and i think i might get one of them because he's using that it looks really interesting but i don't know he's a lot more technical andrew yeah he likes his gadgets and stuff do you spend a lot of time on social media though jason tons yeah i'm just on it all the time in fact i've started noticing that do you well you're not on facebook anymore right no but i'm i spend more time on facebook than do anything else and i hate it i hate facebook i never post on it but i'm constantly going like that that's awful if you don't post on it and you have to use it it's not right where are you what are you doing you're reading other people

i'm just hating yeah you know i'm just hating especially today it's st george's day isn't it god jesus christ so are you are you um interacting though are you down voting stuff or or giving thumbs up or disliking i'm not occasionally i might like someone you're just reading stuff and getting wound up getting wound I do Twitter and I do Instagram. I find them quite direct. You know, if I go on there, I'm like, okay, I'm done now. But that's why I got rid of Facebook because it's just like... Twitter's horrible as well.

You could be on there forever. Yeah. Well, Twitter as well is kind of... It's just horrible. You've either got someone going, we're going to die. We're all going to die. Or someone going, wow gonna die we're all gonna die or someone going wow the conservatives and then bullet points about how many people they've killed and blah blah blah

um but sticking a five and go is is this amazing sort of fantasy that you have about yes yes of course you know because when you're in having a troll when someone's trolling you yeah and you're you're not going back, but then you go back, and then they come back with some... The only thing that comes springs to mind is kicking the shit out of them. It is the only thing that's going to...

I will win if I kick the shit out of this person. If I hit him, I will win. Even if he hits me and I fall down and he wins, it's hurting more because I've shocked him, I've turned up to his ass and punched him. I've turned it's hurting more because i've shocked him that i've turned up to his ass and punched him i've turned it into a real world yeah yeah even if he's harder than me it will have shocked him that i've turned up to his house because that is part of the indignation isn't it that's the thing that eats away at you is the gutlessness of it when when people just

blast something at you yes yeah and yeah how little thought it's taken on their part and how um how they would never do it in real life most of the time no they wouldn't they wouldn't dare do it even the people that are quite handy wouldn't do it you just want to do it because it's not normal human behavior is it to go up to my go right yeah you just want to do it no i mean i've trolled loads of people but since we got big i stopped doing it because i thought, well, this isn't very nice. A lot of the time that some of the negativity and the annoying stuff you see on social media is people trying it out. Like they probably won't do that their whole lives. They'll probably have that same epiphany.

Yeah. Yeah. And think, actually, fuck that. Yeah. Forever. People are going to use it against people, aren't they? But it's already happening. You're already seeing careers damaged and destroyed

by things that people have said 10 years ago when they were just pissed and they were 12. They could even ban trolling, couldn't they, as well? They could turn that into some kind of abuse law type thing. At the end of the day, people just have to get the message that they have to be sort of more respectful to each other and more thoughtful i suppose yeah yeah um there's a book called surveillance capitalism um have you heard of that no it's less about that whole world of uh people getting in

arguments and stuff and more about the ways that especially google and Facebook harvest your data in order to sell you things essentially. And they're getting more and more sophisticated at actually being able to build up a profile of you and your behavior and what you're into so that they can predict what you might be into and they can target advertising much more precisely. And they can target advertising much more precisely. Which I fully welcome. Because I'm there every day going, oh man, I can't believe that nice jacket's popped up on my feet. I really like that. Isn't that funny?

Fuck, I'll have that. And I know full well what they're doing, you know. The thing is that that's actually fine. But what happens also with the data, isn't it? It gets sold as like package data. You know, they take all the data and then they sell it to another company and also there are so many potential negative consequences for them having access to that kind of personal data don't you feel like you think differently in the social media age your your thoughts are different after interactions that you've had with people online? There's the urge to constantly act woke, isn't there?

And all caring, all philosophical, all open to a more positive perception, which is starting to annoy me a bit, you know? Yes. Because it's just not like that in the real world. I know what you mean. It's our generation thing, though. I think lots of younger people are a lot more positive you know as an online experience they probably

spend more time looking at positive things that have been happening right and they're more and they're engaging with ideas and movements that needed to be engaged with yeah and it's weird for us are the people our age because we're having to make the transition yeah sure and it's weird for us, the people our age, because we're having to make the transition. And sometimes it's annoying. It is, yeah. But it's worth making, probably. It is. It's true.

You know, why spend all the time looking at horrible stuff online when you could be looking at, you know, all the great achievements people have been making every day and stuff. You know, no one looks at that stuff. I don't look at that stuff. No, exactly fail videos are more fun than yeah sure it wins yeah um are you guys up for doing a song or two sure yeah yeah now in this kind of situation we're sat alone in this little venue in the middle of king's Cross. It's just me and you guys sat there opposite me. Is it weird doing this kind of thing? No. Okay, good. A little bit.

Just a little guy with a baseball cap grinning at you. Yeah. That's me, not... You're in private, dude. Yeah, okay. The screen gets a window and makes it bright While I take out all the rubbish on who I don't like there's nothing in here, I'm just ignoring

my kids, spitting at some idiot I don't know from Leeds, he told me I was gonna get smacked for the rest of the day, I just thought, but should I get in the car and drive up there, take my

chances and get his address stick in the car and drive up there Take my chances and get his address Stick in a five and go Stick in a five and go Stick in a five and go Stick in a five and go, woah woah woah Stick in a five and go Sticking a five and go Sticking a five and go Sticking a five and go I got a tip from a random And where I should go

It was only unusual But I was feeling you know I couldn't sleep at night With thoughts of pulling his tail So I bought a uniform from Royal Mail I know it sounds weird and it's not okay But I got a good mate at the DVLA So I threw in some cash and I got a postcode

And a door number and a fucking road Stick in a five and go Stick in a five and go stick in a five and go stick in a five and go stick in a five and go stick in a five and go stick in a five and go stick in a five and go

stick in a five and go Hello? Hello, is that Mr Twitter? I mean Mr Trees? Yeah, who's that? It's the Postman. I've got a big package for you. You need to sign for it, Mr. Trees. It's massive. So can you come outside? You need to sign for it, mate. What's in it? I'm not sure.

I think it's an England address. So can you come outside? I don't know. You need to sign for it, mate. Sign for it mate! Sign for it mate! Sign for it mate! Sign for it mate!

You fucker! You bastard! You! You! You FUCKER! GO! FUCKING! Sticking a five and gum Sticking a five and gum

Sticking a five and gum Sticking a five and go Sticking a five and go Sticking a five and go Sticking a five and go Sticking a five and go Sticking a five and go Sticking a five and go Sticking a five and go Stick in a five and go

Stick in a five and go Stick in a five and go Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa Stick in a five and go I'm gonna fucking hit him Stick in a five and go I'm gonna fucking knock him out Stick in a five and go

I'm a bastard Stick in a five and go I'm a bastard, stick in a five and go You can't be bragging cause you said you made a load A pride of brother coach when it came off the road You're nitty and you said you knocked out 22 But I knew that wasn't right cos I was watching you Who wants me? Don't talk about it even after half three Don't talk about it Who wants me?

Don't talk about it even after half three Don't talk about it right I fucking died outside the pss They got you in the warehouse with a nail gun And they all want to bring you slowly up the store in song And even in the glare of hindsight, we We never get the real feeling, just the empty discourse Who wants me? Don't talk about it, even after our free Don't talk about it Who wants me? They'll talk about it even after I'm free

They'll talk about it Who wants me? They'll talk about it even after I'm free They'll talk about it right I'll fuck it down, I'll fucking bite it We never get the real feeling Just the empty discourse We never get the real feeling

Just the empty discourse Break it, yeah, fuck it, break it, break it The petrol station men, they do got extra time And the driver would appreciate the quiet smile The yellow and the red under a sheet of night As I smoked tea time with the generator's eyes We'll see you next time. We never get the real feeling, just the empty discourse We never get the real feeling, just the empty discourse It's all there on public campus

Watch the curbs circle this madness There's only one course, discourse There's only one course, discourse course There's only one course, this course It's all there on public campus Watch the curbs of compass madness There's only one course, this course There's only one course, this course It's all there on public campus

Watch the curbs of compass madness There's only one course, Madness There's only one course This course There's only one course This course It's all there on public campus Watch the curbs of Comfist Madness There's only one course This course There's only one course This course Cause there's cause. That's great.

Right. So much. Thank you. Thank you. Wait, this is an advert for Squarespace. Every time I visit your website, I see success. Yes, success. The way that you look at the world makes the world want to say yes. It looks very professional. I love browsing your videos and pics and I don't want to stop.

And I'd like to access your members area and spend in your shop. These are the kinds of comments people will say about your website if you build it with Squarespace. Just visit squarespace.com slash buxton for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, because you will want to launch, use the offer code BUXTON to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. So put the smile of success on your face with Squarespace. Yes.

Continue. Rosie, come on, let's head back. Fly past from the HB. Hey, welcome back, podcats. That was Jason Williamson and Andrew Fern from Sleaford Mods talking to me there back in April 2019. Very grateful indeed to them for making the time to talk to me. It was a thrill to meet them and an amazing and memorable experience for me to be sat alone in a room watching them on the stage performing. I took a couple of crappy pictures on my phone and I will put them underneath the description of the podcast on my website. adam-buxton.co.uk

If you go to the podcasts section of the website, you will find all the episodes there. And with all the descriptions and the links etc for each episode and gradually because this is a relatively new version of my website

I'm sort of getting to grips with it and I hope that I might be a little bit better in future at you know fleshing out those descriptions with a few more bits and pieces and photographs and that kind of thing but there's links there as i said in the introduction to a couple of documentaries about sleaford mods bunch of kunst directed by christ France. That's really good. I would recommend that one.

And Invisible Britain, a documentary from 2015 that I haven't actually seen. It looks good. I'm planning to watch it. That's on Vimeo. And what else there is? Oh yeah, the interview with Patrick Wagner

of the German band Gewalt that I mentioned at the beginning of my conversation with Andrew and Jason. There's also that video of Johnny Rotten and Marky Ramone and Henry Rollins and all these confused-looking punks from 2019. Also on my website, apart from amazing bonus episodes of the podcast and bits of bonus audio and a lot of my favourite YouTube videos that I've made over the years and a lot of my favourite YouTube videos that I've made over the years, and a lot of sponsored jingles and things like that that I like. You will also find details of upcoming shows. I'm still supposed to be going on tour,

reading from my book and reading other bits and pieces in the spring next year, and those tour dates as they stand are up there's still a few tickets left for some of those shows um i also have yeah i also have this live podcast coming up in the next couple of weeks with suzy ruffell, comedian Susie Ruffell. I'm talking to her as part of the Unmute podcast festival on the 21st of October 2020 at 9pm. Looking forward to that. Hope you can join us. and of course on the website you will find a link to the merch store where you can buy a variety of adam buxton podcast t-shirts and mugs and posters variously designed by

helen green who does the podcast artwork and lu Drozd they're very beautiful what else I don't know my hands are freezing it changes so quickly doesn't it for one minute it's nice and the next minute it's not so nice but it's still quite nice look at the look at the beautiful clouds, the colours. As the sun starts to set out here in East Angula, some of the clouds look bruised. We know how they feel, don't we, listeners? Hey, look, that's it for this week. Thanks very much indeed to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for production support, to Annika Meissen for conversation editing, to Helen Green for her podcast artwork, to ACAST for their continued hard work and support with this podcast.

Thanks most of all, though, to you, podcats. You're nice. You're the best. We're friends. Let's have a safe hug. We're friends. Let's have a safe hug. Come on. Come on. Yeah, I know I'm a little bit rainy, but I think we need to have a hug, don't you? I'm going to die. That's my hugging voice. All right, listen, take care. And you may not believe this, but it's true. I love you. Bye! Thank you. Bye. សូវាប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់� Thank you.