THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.161 - GEORGIA PRITCHETT

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

Adam talks with British comedy writer Georgia Pritchett about writing on the hit TV show Succession, turning anxieties into characters and other important business.Thanks to Becca Ptaszynksi for her work on this episode and to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell for production support.Podcast artwork by Helen GreenSIGNED BOOKSIf you'd like a copy of Ramble Book signed, please send it along with an SAE to: PBJ Management22 Rathbone StreetLondon, W1T 1LGPLEASE NOTE: I can't guarantee how long it will take to get back to you so if you need it for a particular date, send it well in advance. Thanks!RELATED LINKSMY MESS IS A BIT OF A LIFE: ADVENTURES IN ANXIETY by GEORGIA PRITCHETT - 2021 (WATERSTONES)GEORGIA PRITCHETT ON SWEARING, SUCCESSION AND ANXIETY - 2021 (INDEPENDENT WEBSITE)INSIDE EPISODE 5 OF SUCCESSION - I WENT TO MARKET - 2018 (YOUTUBE)NORM MACDONALD LAST STAND UP ON LETTERMAN - 2015 (YOUTUBE) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening I took my microphone and found some human folk Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke My name is Adam Buxton, I'm a man I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan. Rosie, come for a walk. Rose, are you going to come for a walk?

No, thank you. I've been for a run this morning with Mum. And now I don't need to go for a walk with you because you're so boring. Well, that is very ungrateful and disappointing. Rosie, come on. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. She's staring at me. Hey, how are you doing, podcats?

Adam Buxton here. It's all just a little bit stressful at Castle Buckles. Daughter just tested positive for COVID on the lateral flow. So I had to go and take her into Norwich to get the PCR, just to be absolutely sure. Down at Carrow Road, Norwich football ground, where, well, you know me, I love sport, so I'm always hanging out down Carrow Road. Hey, it's Buckles, everyone said as I turned up.

What's up, Buckles? Got any funny comments about football to make? No, just the PCR, thanks. Hoping that my daughter's not going to come down with COVID too badly I know you're desperate to know how I'm doing fine thank you I feel pretty good right now I'm having a jazz apple normally my favorite apple I can sort of taste it. It's not quite the spectacular explosion of sweetness that it usually is. But the big problem with today's jazz apple is that it's not quite as crunchy as I'd like it. Normally you get a reliable crispy crunch from the jazz apple.

Today it's a little soft. be crunch from the jazz apple. Today it's a little soft. So as you can tell, I'm dealing with quite a lot of heavy stuff out here, but I'm brave. So I'll get through it. Get rid of that core. Boot. Just went off the side of my boot and landed a foot away. Oh, off the side of my boot and landed a foot away. Oh, sun's coming out. Saucy. This morning it was a bit like the end of the world, rain-wise. I mean, you know, not complaining.

I appreciate many parts of the world would love a bit of rain. It's all relative, isn't it? Anyway, let me tell you a little bit about podcast number 161, which features a rambling conversation with the British comedy writer Georgia Pritchett. A few brief Pritchett facts for you. Georgia, currently aged 53, has, over the last 30 or so years, written for the likes of Tracy Ullman, Joe Brand, Lenny Henry, Ronnie Corbett, Wallace and Gromit, and that famous comedy team, the Spice Girls. Georgia has written for TV shows that include Spitting Image, Not Going Out, Miranda, My Family, and Smack the Pony. Her writing on The Thick of It, Amanda Iannucci's satire of Westminster politics, led to her being one of the lead writers on Iannucci's show Veep, which starred Julia Louis-Dreyfus as US Vice President Selina Meyer doing her best to stay

afloat in a sea of political and personal turmoil. That's one of my least favourite kinds of oil. Veep earned Georgia and the rest of the writing and production team binfuls of awards and she's collected even more in recent years for her writing on Succession, Jesse Armstrong's mordant comedy drama. I love to say mordant, about the struggles for power that take place between the variously venal and screwed up adult children of a billionaire media tycoon when he relinquishes control of his busyness empire. Regular listeners will have heard me enthuse about that show before. I mean, I'm sure a lot of you out there are familiar with it. It's an absolute smash.

Georgia, who lives in southwest London with her writer and TV producer partner Catherine and their two sons, has just written a book. My Mess is a Bit of a Life, Adventures in Anxiety, in which she relates stories from her personal and professional life in a series of short, funny, and frequently moving vignettes. I spoke with Georgia in mid-July of this year, 2021, and it was another remote recording, which began with, well, of course we had some technical problems. It wouldn't be a remote recording without technical problems.

This one began with a few frantic minutes of trying to figure out why Georgia was unable to join the Zoom call. But when we eventually connected, we talked a bit about Georgia's book and some of the themes in it, including being unkind to yourself and various other great anxieties and hang-ups. We also talked a lot about writing, with particular emphasis on George's writing for Succession, and I'm imagining, as I say, that a lot of you will be familiar with Succession, in which case I think you will find what Georgia has to say about putting the show together very interesting. But if you're worried about spoilers, I don't think

there are any major spoilers in our conversation. But if that kind of thing worries you, then, well, it's worrying. The podcast, that is. Not the fact that you worry about those things. Although I do think that's a little worrying too. Back at the end for a bit more waffle, but right now with Georgia Pritchett. Here we go. Ramble chat, let's have a ramble chat.

We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that. Come on, let's chew the fat and have a ramble chat. Put on your conversation coat and find your talking hat. Yes, yes, yes. La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, Hello Georgia, nice to meet you. Hello. Have we met in real life before? I don't think we have. I think we've been circling around each other for decades. Yeah. Okay, well that's good because we have a friend in common, Jo.

Yes. Not Jo Cornish, to be clear. A woman Jo. But anyway, I was thinking, I wonder if I've met Georgia before because I remember going to a dinner party at Jo's house. This was quite a few years ago, maybe eight, nine nine years ago and it was a very nice evening always have a nice evening seeing joe but i was telling a story about my daughter who was then five or something and she was going through a phase of coughing in the evenings when she went to bed she would get a cough and then she would cough and cough and cough until she threw up and it would be like projectile you know maximum exorcist and it was no good for anyone no one enjoyed it and me and my wife were always on alert with the

towels and the basins and but sometimes i would get it in my head that actually there was something about it she was slightly enjoying and i'd be like don't okay cough you know have a good cough but don't you know try and stop yourself coughing don't go the whole way with the pot don't lean into the sensation of coughing because we all know how it's going to end anyway so i was sort of saying that at the dinner table yeah perfect but then there was a a woman there who got quite upset and who suddenly chimed in and and was upset with this story and with me and just said you know it's not funny i used to have a similar thing when i was little i would cough and i would throw up but my parents would get angry with me

and they would punish me for it. I'd have to go and sit on the naughty step and it was really bad. Anyway, so it was quite a uncomfortable moment in the dinner party. And I thought, and you had in mind that I was that annoyed woman. I thought you might've been, I thought, what if she was? And then when you,'t on the call at 4 p.m., I just thought, maybe she just remembered that I was that person. She's like, I'm not talking to that monster. No, I love a story of things shooting out of children's bodies at high velocity. I would always embrace that, particularly at the dinner table so you're quite safe with me on that front okay good well that's really did you hear that ping just

then by the way no i didn't okay various people are pinging to say is georgia okay is everything okay georgia's trying to call but she says the meeting's in progress. She's unable to get in. Please advise. All good. Georgia and I are talking. Georgia and I, Georgia and me, Georgia and I. I'm surprised with your dad that you hesitated there. Exactly. Because we have dads who are concerned about grammar.

And in fact, our dads used to work together. No. I don't know if you knew that. I didn know that no way tell me about that so uh my dad worked at the sunday telegraph at the exact same time as your dad for many decades crazy i knew your grandfather was a a writer v.s pritchett yes but tell me about your. I didn't make that connection at all. Yes. So his name is Oliver, and he was a columnist at The Telegraph for many years.

He just gave up a year or two ago. He did do a few travel pieces and remembers Nigel correcting him on his grammar, which to me is astonishing because he's, you know, a grammar Nazi himself. So, yeah, they worked together. I don't know if you ever went to fleet street and visited but i it's so vivid my memory of the the noise in that office when you went in and all those wires coming down to all the phones and all the typewriters and the smoke and it was such a kind of cacophony of voices and phone calls and typewriters and

it was incredible wasn't it it really was it was a bit like um you know terry gilliam's film brazil all those weird old-fashioned bits of equipment and as you say wires and you know they probably had those shoots like they did yeah where they put rolled up bits of paper and they fly off to another department. Didn't that seem the most futuristic thing you'd ever seen at that time? Yeah, absolutely. Was your because my dad was conservative in more or less every way. So the Sunday Telegraph was kind of ideal for him in that respect. But was your dad a similar figure?

Was he kind of gruff old establishment guy? Not really. I mean, he'd come from the Guardian and the Standard and he was that kind of figure. He's very lovely. And he got sent to boarding school at six and I feel like he's frozen like he still kind of looks a bit like a lost confused six-year-old boy and he's completely sweet and adorable and

wants to please and make everyone happy and cook people a meal he sounds great and he's still around how old is he now then he's 81 I think 80 81 yeah good effort mr pritchett and what a funny connection yeah hey congratulations on your book by the way i enjoyed reading it very much oh thank you have you written an actual book before i've written some children's books in a desperate attempt to impress my children which failed officially this is my second book because at the age of 11, I wrote a no holds barred biography of my hamster, Hammy, which really was tell all, sadly unpublished, I should mention. You still have that manuscript, I certainly hope. I still do have that manuscript. He was essentially the Douglas Bader of the rodent world and his kind of

incredible feats of daring do and escapes. I was some kind of emotional or metaphorical cold it's and he did anything in his power to get away from me. But yes, this was since I was 11, this is the first book I've written. And it was difficult having written scripts for so long and put my words into other people's mouths. It was very difficult to just write something so personal and direct. It was pretty terrifying. How did you begin? What was the moment at which you knew,

OK, this is what it's going to be? And what were the early attempts like? Or did you find that place quite quickly? Well, it was a combination of things. As I mentioned in the book, you know, lots of people have said, you know, if you're sort of having a difficult time, if you're worried about something, you should write it down. And I always thought that's a terrible idea. write it down and I always thought that's a terrible idea if I was a chiropodist they wouldn't say do more feet and you'll feel better you know writing is my job I didn't see how doing more of it would make me feel better and then our mutual friend Jo Unwin suggested I do it and I was

very very clear that I would never, ever be writing a memoir. I mean, I really put my foot down quite firmly on that. Why did you feel you didn't want to do that? I thought it sounded like a dreadful idea. And why would anyone be interested in me? And why would I ever? I love my lovely anonymous life. I thought, why would I ever I love my lovely anonymous life I thought why would I change any of that but Jo is very persuasive and she got me to do it and um it's a bit of a shock that I

have done it and are you fixed now I'm not I mean it is interesting writing about yourself I think I think it's easy isn't it in the middle of life's chaos to kind of give yourself a hard time about things. Sure. And maybe when you sort of feel a bit more objective and are writing it down, like you might write about a character, you can feel a little bit more sympathy for your younger self. feel a little bit more sympathy for your younger self. So I think it's helped in some ways. It's interesting having written a whole book about how I find it difficult to talk about my feelings. People now keep wanting me to talk about my feelings.

I feel I've been very clear on this. Yes. So even after the experience of writing about feelings, anxieties, etc. in the book, you do still find it tough to talk about them. Yeah, I think, you know, for lots of reasons. I'm British, I'm middle class and, you know, and I'm from the comedy world. So you can't ever say anything too genuine or sincere. You have to make a joke of it.

And yeah, so it's fraught with difficulty. But I do find writing things down easier than speaking. You know, classic incoherent writer who finds it much easier to make sense on the page. One of the things I like about the book, as someone who finds it difficult to concentrate in general is that it is laid out in very nice digestible chunks yes i mean the book works as a whole everything fits together as a memoir as a series of recollections and anecdotes about your personal and professional life but each chunk is self-contained and it has a kind of poetic form to it. It's really nice. I love that. And how did you decide that you were going to do that?

I'd love to say that that was some very clever choice, but I think I just embraced my shortcomings as a writer. I've got a very short attention span. I love a short chapter. And I think also, short attention span. I love a short chapter. And I think also, you know, I've been writing scripts for so long that the way my brain frames stories is in scenes. So really, it's a collection of scenes, because that's sort of all I know how to do now. And I find it kind of fascinating that when you start looking back on your life, and I'm sure you found this with your book, which I very stubbornly read in book form and didn't listen to oh wow well thank you for tackling it in any form uh no I absolutely loved it and I think I don't know if you found this that once you start

remembering one thing it kind of opens other doors and you you start remembering more and more and certainly the sort of early memories are very impressionistic you know you as a child you can sort of notice things but you don't kind of have the bigger picture you can observe things but you can't sort of join all the dots and I think it was really kind of fun and interesting for me remembering those moments where it's all just a bit hazy and blurry and you're a bit confused. And just kind of trying to be quite strict with myself about what I thought and felt then rather than trying to kind of make too much sense of it as an adult. Luckily, I've remained a very confused person, so it does really carry on like that through the whole book. But I think they get a little bit clearer or more coherent, hopefully, as it goes on. Yeah. How would you feel about reading a little bit out loud? I have, I don't mind. I can have a go and then we can just not use it if it's too painful.

OK, but would you be OK if I asked you to read a specific bit? Yes. Great. Well, Ferret is the name of the page. OK, I shall read it. Ferret. The problem was the way I looked was not the way women in magazines look. I have the shoulders of a Muppet. women in magazines look. I have the shoulders of a muppet. My freakishly long torso coupled with my unusually short legs makes me look like an eel is taking a ride on a gerbil. The overall effect is more ferret than human. I was bald for years as a child and when, finally, some scratchy hair

started to form a thin brush-like covering on my head. It stopped too soon. I'm all forehead. And for as long as I can remember, my brow has been furrowed. There's room for a lot of furrow. My hair is curly. I have no say in what it decides to do. My choices are big hair or small hair. All this is set off by a flat face, a snaggletooth smile and thin lips. To make things worse, I'm told I dress like someone whose best clothes are in the wash. I had always imagined that as I emerged into adulthood, my hair would straighten, my legs and fingernails would lengthen, I would develop fashion sense and I would be able to snap my fingers three times in that way that all the cool people do.

Nope. I think I was asked to take this out and I was a bit reluctant yeah because they must well they must have thought like god you are being horrible to yourself just ease off which is what I thought when I read it I was like oh mate you look for people who can't and then people can google you you look normal you look like a normal person and um you are being way too tough on yourself. I understand, though, that mindset. And I understand what you're describing here.

You're describing that kind of powerful, self-conscious, self-loathing that people can have about their appearance sometimes. But can I back up that with some proof? Sure. I don't know if you're familiar with Jesse's and my friend Tony Roach. Yeah, yeah, I know Tony. Well, I know who to say hello to. Six foot seven. Right, he's a giant man.

He's actually, apparently you have to be six foot seven to be considered officially a giant. Oh, really? And he has been invited to giant conferences. And I will say, you've got to go, Tony. And he's like, I don't want to be the shortest giant at the giant conference. I don't want to be the shortest giant. That's what he sounds like. It's not.

I think that would be amazing. He could say to all the taller people all the really annoying things we say to him all the time. But just to back up my long torso thing. So basically, when I'm standing, I'm usually the shortest person in the room. But when I'm seated, I'm the tallest person in the room. So I'm now going to play you a film of me sitting next to Tony Roach. Georgia is showing me. Okay, so Tony Roach, who is a giant.

Wow, that's crazy. So when they're sat down, Georgia is taller than Tony. And when they stand up, Tony is considerably taller than Georgia. Wow, that it almost looks as if you're sat on a cushion or something or a booster that's like one of those godzilla films isn't it or something where something erupts from the sea and then just keeps coming up tony just keeps standing when i finish standing some minutes before an eruption of comic genius this is the bit that uh your editor thought that it would be wise to cut out a podcast exclusive that maybe they will ask me to cut out thereafter, but I can do that. You say also, all this is set off by a flat face, a snaggled toothed smile and thin lips. Luckily, I have very sticky out ears. Otherwise, I could be mistaken for a balloon, a tired looking balloon. Now that isn't true i mean you just don't look like a tired looking balloon you've got a nice face thank you other people have said so but i appreciate

have they really yes who said you look like a tired looking balloon you know i have been told i look like a balloon and have a very flat face hanging out with the wrong people I think I do look tired my children told me okay yeah I know was all that stuff painful for you when you were a teenager your your body image and uh feeling kind of self-conscious oh yeah it's hideous isn't it being a teenager my my boys are teenagers now and it's brought it all back. I think it's so difficult. And I was talking to the marvellous Catlin Moran recently and wishing there'd been a Catlin Moran when I was a teenage girl because it's, wow, it must be great to have someone like her in your court. Absolutely. One of the things you do in the book is that you give the people around you

and also the feelings and anxieties and inner demons you're struggling with nicknames and you humanize them very effectively but of course and this is a great segue which i'm very happy with you also do something similar in the course of writing for succession you humanize the monsters of that family. Yes. Love it. Yeah, which is really impressive. I mean, that show, that was one of those shows that everyone was talking about.

And I kind of resisted for a while because I thought, no, no, no. Everyone's going on about how great it is. I don't want to join in. And then when I finally did. I don't want pleasure. Yeah. I reject pleasure. I'm not a sheep. And of course,

it is absolutely terrific. And it's so impressive that all the writers on that show are able to create all this funny, surprising, strange dialogue. But the dialogue is there working with these stories, which are incredibly compelling and moving and exciting and how did you get involved with writing on that show um i think it was a combination of things um don't cough until you vomit because you know i'm against that absolutely i'm just gonna have some water i apologize um it was a combination of things one One was that Jesse Armstrong and I sort of started out at around the same time and had written together on some really terrible shows in the past. So I knew him and Tony and some of the other writers.

And then also I'd written on The Thick of It, and then that sort of Armando Iannucci took me from the thick of it onto Veep which was an American show about American politics so I think the combination of having a relationship with HBO and having written seven seasons of Veep and knowing Jesse meant that when they put the sort of succession team together and they wanted mainly English writers but who knew how to write for American audiences. Luckily I was somewhere in that Venn diagram because succession certainly at the beginning was mainly British comedy writers writing in a room in Brixton together and I think there was some concern from some quarters, could A, comedy writers and B, British people pull off an American drama?

I think that actually helped us in some ways, because when you meet American drama writers, they're incredibly intellectual and intimidating. And their stage directions go on for pages and they're like the great American novel. Whereas comedy writers are terrible at stage directions. I, in particular, am terrible at stage directions I in particular am terrible at them because I hate describing things but what we do do is really focus on the dialogue and make every word count as you know in comedy is so often is not just about the words used but about the rhythm and and so I think whereas sometimes drama writers might sort of focus on the beautiful stage directions and the story and the dialogue might just be kind of

doing its job I think on succession we make every word count whether it's a joke or not and I think that's what people have I hope have enjoyed as well as you know of course the incredible acting from that extraordinary cast and was it clear from the beginning that part of the process was going to be about trying to humanize these people to make them something more than caricatures because that's what I initially thought having watched the first episode was like, oh, I don't know if I'm on board with this because I hate all of these people. Yeah.

And there's only, you know, it is funny, but only up to a point. I think, you know, very quickly, and I had exactly the same misgivings when I was asked to work on it. I thought, why on earth would I want to write for a lot of rich white men who are destroying the world and who are horrible and evil but actually the challenge of sort of having

to dig deep into their psyches and kind of try and understand them and find compassion for them was really exciting as a writer and I think the characters are compelling and very unique and and I hope we've found a way where you can kind of while hating what they're doing you can kind of feel for them and feel for what they're going through and I mean in a way you know the same was true of Veep she was a pretty terrible character but you kind of wanted her to succeed because she wanted it so much. But interestingly, with Veep, you know, it's not the worst thing Trump did, but he did kind of put an end to Veep because our president was a horrible, selfish, ruthless, venal, corrupt human being who did terrible things. But she had a sense of shame and she was punished when she did bad things.

And suddenly, overnight, that seemed incredibly quaint and twee and old-fashioned and so very soon after he came to power we had to end veep because uh we couldn't compete with reality right i'm interested to know how you maintain that balance between finding the characters in a show like succession loathsome and scary and appalling but then having moments because it's it's not like any one of them sort of achieves enlightenment and suddenly turns into a nice person and then that's them for the rest of the series they just there's just little glimpses of their humanity and there's moments and scenes where you engage with them and you feel sorry for them and you hope that maybe they're going to have some kind of epiphany yes but they just go back into being rotten i definitely have to watch myself because i tend to particularly with roman i've got a soft spot for

i tend to fall in love with him so much that i forget that he's a terrible person who's done terrible things so uh jesse's very good at hauling us back on track and reminding us it's not the waltons or something he hasn't learned and grown he's still this terrible person and you wrote a couple of my favorite episodes in the first season i think uh there was well Roman, there was the, was it safe room when he gets on the phone and starts having phone sex? Yes. His kind of self-loathing or psychopathy expresses itself in sexual ways. Yeah.

But there was something quite sweet and tender about the phone sex scene. Yes, in the writer's room, I keep referring it to as the romance between Roman and Jerry. And everyone keeps saying it's not a romance. You can't call that a romance. It's not romantic. But it's tragic, isn't it? The whole, it is a tragedy that we're telling really. And, you know, he is not capable of what we would call a normal relationship or a healthy relationship. So he does these other things in place of that.

And in those situations, are you just are you consulting with psychologists and saying, is this the kind of behavior that manifests in our mad young men? Or are you just thinking oh well let's make it up we no we haven't we have consulted obviously we consult with sort of business people and uh media people and we of course because it's written mainly by a bunch of shambolic scruffy british comedy writers we have to have a rich consultant who tells us what glamorous, rich people would do because we don't have any idea. So that's been really eye-opening,

just someone sort of saying, you know, they wouldn't have coats. They're not out in the air. They're in their limo and then in their helicopter and then in their jet and then in their building they don't they wouldn't own a coat or you know so things like that or you know their shoes would never be worn in because they don't walk on ground they're just always on the carpets of their buildings and not sort of out in the street whoa yeah really fascinating i would imagine though that it's the kind of show that

is now so successful and has been watched by so many different types of people that you're probably getting a few fans in that world are you aware of that happening yet i have heard tell of such things yes yes i have you haven't accepted any invitations to super yachts yet? No, not yet. I think it's always worrying. When I had this crazy experience that I write about in the White House, and everyone there said, oh, Veep is so close to reality. And you sort of think, oh, dear, is it? I was hoping it was a wild exaggeration. And I think the same with this, you know, we get feedback saying, yes, that's exactly right. A little bit of your soul dies because you were hoping that you were painting a much more extreme version than the truth. But tell us what you were doing in the

White House. When was that? I had to do this thing with Julia Louis-Dreyfus from Veep for the correspondence dinner, which is when Obama was president. Well, every president has a correspondence dinner, which is when all the journalists from Washington have dinner as a sort of bonding experience. And the only person not allowed to go is the vice president for security reasons. So as and they do sort of funny sketches at this dinner. So they had the idea to play to Obama and the people present a sort of funny sketch of what Biden, who was then vice president, got up to with the fictional vice president, which was Julie Louis-Dreyfus, in a sort of Ferris Bueller's Day Off kind of scenario.

So that meant we had to go to the White House and a film with Biden and Michelle Obama and Nancy Pelosi and John Boehner and various other people. Yeah. And everyone there just couldn't wait to tell us how accurate Veep was. As I say, a little bit horrifying. Did you meet Obama? No, because it was a surprise. So we didn't meet him. But I met Michelle.

You met Michelle. Absolutely. Yeah. Wow. What an incredible woman. She was so funny and she was so relaxed and she kept sort of saying, yeah, give me more jokes to do. And I'd just be writing them in biro and sort of handing her scraps of paper and then she'd

do them brilliantly. And she was, yeah, just an incredible and very cool human being wow i'm interested to know how it works when you are credited as the writer of of an episode of a show like that does that mean that you are literally the only writer or how does it work no it's very collaborative, actually, in the sort of American way rather than the British way. So we all sit around and eat biscuits and work out exactly what's going to happen throughout the series or season for American listeners. And work out exactly what's going to happen in every scene of every episode. And then we'll sort of divvy them out and one person will go and write an outline and then we'll all sort of give feedback

on that and then that person will then write a script and then we do the thing we did on the thick of it and veep which is to add alts sort of while we're filming so add jokes sometimes on set as you go along which is really fun so it's a very a real sort of team spirit and everyone's very collaborative and ego-free and we all kind of help each other and and enjoy other people making us look better and you know having input on our scripts but are you sort of nominated on one episode as the leader so it's your idea that is driving the whole thing and then everyone chips in yeah so you do the sort of all the kind of drafts and the legwork but other people are kind of giving feedback and yeah i've i've been so the first season I did the Thanksgiving episode which

was um I did then feel I was being sort of handed a sort of thing of great tradition of writing the Thanksgiving episode for an American show it was a real thrill I went to market is the name of that Thanksgiving episode yes and I guess that's fun because you've got the whole cast there gathered together around the table this horrific family dinner party scene at which every conceivable thing that you can imagine not wanting to happen at a family gathering happens yeah what did the process of writing that look like? Just drawing on, you know, everything always starts with character, doesn't it? So just thinking about the characters and all, everything they had going on and the,

you know, the stakes are so high for everyone in that family. And it was great just to see Tom in his turtleneck and Logan in his woolly jumper. And it was great just to see Tom in his turtleneck and Logan in his woolly jumper. It's just fun seeing them out of their suits and kind of in their leisure wear. Yeah. So that was, yeah, I really enjoyed it. One of the great things about the safe room episode where Greg and Tom are trapped in a panic room or somewhere like that because they think there's a shooter loose in the office. panic room or somewhere like that because they think there's a shooter loose in the office so it's almost like do they call them bottle episodes wherever where most of the action takes place in in one location whether it's a room or a house or whatever and it's got a nice

claustrophobic feeling to it that was a really interesting thing actually because um we sort of had this idea of there being a safe room and then we had the idea of because we were thinking well if they're all in one room it's difficult to sort of keep all the stories going without everyone hearing what's going on so and then we sort of thought oh it'd be much funnier if there was two safe rooms a kind of first class safe room and a kind of business class safe room and of course tom would be very upset to find himself not in the first class safe room and a kind of business class safe room and of course Tom would be very upset to find himself not in the first class safe room and then I thought it would be really interesting if because this is very near where Shiv has suggested to Tom that they have an open

marriage and he hasn't really been able to express his feelings about this. You see how I relate to people who can't express their feelings. And I thought what if Greg suggested a sort of open business relationship that that might trigger Tom. And we came up with this idea of him pelting Greg greg with the with the water bottles which is all there really is in the room and i remember when i wrote it sort of thinking oh you know i hope this will be funny and i hope people kind of get that it's sort of about his marriage and not just about greg but i mainly thought it would be funny to see Tom throwing things at Greg and hurting Greg. But actually, Matthew McFadden played the scene with such emotion and poignancy that it became something I hadn't even imagined, which was an incredibly moving and sad scene, as well as hopefully being a bit funny yeah so season three of succession in the can as we speak and then

in the meantime you seem to have about 20 other projects on the go project with julia louis drafus yes that's a top secret thing but it's gonna be great oh the shrink next door yes starring will ferrell and paul rudd based on a podcast of the same name can you say anything about that? It's really good it was a fascinating project to be involved with because it's this true story I don't think I'm ruining anything for anyone

it says it on the blurb for the podcast so basically a man went to see a psychiatrist in New York in the 80s and over the course of 27 years the psychiatrist kind of moved into his house took over his business cut him off from his family and took all his money whoa in a nutshell um the lawyers might have something to say about my description of that. But it's a really fascinating story of a sort of therapist patient relationship gone bad. And in a way, although it's very different from succession, I had a sort of similar approach in that I think, you know,

there was a podcast turned into a TV show called dirty john i don't know if you're aware of that oh i did listen to that one yeah yeah so a woman dates a man and he's clearly no good and you're all waiting for her to realize that he's a baddie and i thought well there is a way where the psychiatrist is the baddie and we're waiting for the patient to work it out but actually maybe it's much more interesting if we as the audience kind of get swept along in the same way the patient does and kind of think wow this man's kind of amazing and he was you know nothing is black and white he was in lots of ways a good therapist in lots of ways a good person and an interesting and inspiring and charismatic person so I just kind of approached it as rather than sort of seeing him as irredeemable you know

kind of trying to find the compassion for him and you know it's not exactly a sort of who done it it's more of a how done it and just looking at how did these two men come to get into this situation and what how did they both think this was all right and why did they do these things so it was really interesting kind of looking trying to look into their characters and their pasts and work out what had motivated them and what driven them and what was missing in their lives. And it's almost like a love story, really, because it was a relationship that lasted 27 years, which is longer than a lot of marriages, and started brilliantly and, you know, made them both happy at the beginning and then kind of became unhealthy and toxic and abusive and ended horribly so it was it was a brilliant experience and Will

Farrell gives an absolutely extraordinary performance very serious very emotional he's an incredible actor I hadn't you know obviously he's hilarious but I don't think I'd quite realized what an extraordinary actor he is and then I think you know it's such a good part for Paul because Paul Rudd this is yes Paul Rudd he's always the hero for so for him to play the villain as it were but also to be able just when he's done something terrible and you you or the you know the character Will Ferrell's playing, who's called Marty, sort of is about to turn against him. He just is so charming and incredible and just reels you back in.

And so he's incredible and brilliant in it. And then the wonderful Catherine Hahn plays Will Ferrell's sister, and she's a fantastic character called Phyllis and then we had Casey Wilson who's brilliant playing Paul Rudd's wife so we had this very small but extraordinary cast and it was we did filmed it all through the Covid lockdown right and it was the covid lockdown right uh and it was difficult and slow but uh it was a very special experience so is it is the final show uh are we talking about drama with a bit of comedy sprinkles or is it mainly comedy sprinkles with a little bit of crying i would say drama with comedy sprinkles okay because although i was trying to suck the joy out of it completely you can't stop will and paul and katherine from

being hilarious much as i tried to squash it out of them it just kept popping up and actually while we're talking about some of your other projects, before I ask you a couple of other things, I believe you're writing on a TV version of one of my favourite ever films, Galaxy Quest. Yes. I think this was possibly meant to be a secret, but I did check on that one and they said it's OK to mention. Yes. Oh, wasn't that a great film i loved that film so much and it hasn't aged at all yeah still so good yes simon pegg and i are writing a pilot script at the moment and just trying to stay true to the warmth and humor of the original and also the sort of respect it pays to the fans which is so lovely in the original film yeah it really is isn't it that film came out I think just before 9-11 which is one of the

reasons that it sank without trace at the time interesting and now has a lot of fans yeah but it yeah it didn't it didn't do well when it came out and i it totally fell under the radar on joe my comedy wife joe cornish said like oh man it's great you've got to see it and in case anyone listening to this has not seen galaxy quest can you do the synopsis oh gosh um so a cast who had been on a Star Trek type show that is now finished, I think. Has it finished? I think so. Anyway, they're on a kind of endless comic con type tour and they're all jaded and miserable and wish they had been given other roles to play since then. roles to play since then and they get sort of caught some aliens who've watched their program and thought it was a documentary arrive at comic-con to get their help to uh beat the baddies they're fighting and they go up into space and it's it's just such a brilliant idea and it's done

so well yeah now i need to get in touch with simon and make it clear that I think I'd be quite good for something in there. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Now, before we wrap up, going back to the book, are you OK to introduce us to your anxiety cast? Oh, yes. Yes. So you have in the book characterizations of some of the forces inside you, your inner demons, if you like. And you call them the alien and Godzilla and the dark overlord beaver. Who are they and what do they do and how what aspects of your anxiety do they represent? So the dark overlord beaver is

the being that is responsible for sort of that annoying feeling in your intestines that you get when you're anxious about something. The alien is responsible for the feeling where you think something's about to erupt through your chest and Godzilla, I think Godzilla is really a personification of my unexpressed anger as I'm totally unable to express anger. I don't know if you're any good at anger but I can just about get up to irked or on the cusp of rankled but that's as far as I can get on the anger-o-meter so there are times when I sort of feel there's a Godzilla in me who wants to kind of rise up and swat buildings over and kick bridges over and pluck helicopters out of the sky like drumsticks and chew on them. But instead, all I

can ever manage is just to sort of tut or give someone a bit of a curt word or a brusque comment. So those, yes, those are the things that bother me in the book extremely relatable i'm sure most people can relate to that i guess the alien to me that just feels like moments of panic where you just feel like oh i'm gonna melt down in a second yeah yeah and i've never had a panic attack or anything like that but i i it sounds like what it might be like yeah do you get panic attacks i don't know if i have but i've definitely had that sort of pounding chest feeling like there is a creature that sigourney weaver needs to deal with that's been planted inside you and is going to do something really

unpleasant any second now something messy yeah it was good to see you break them down like that and is this and now i'm going to sound like your therapist maybe i already do but do you think this is a useful way to deal with those kinds of feelings because I think a lot of people who struggle with anxiety or depression or anything like that realize that rather than making it all go away it's usually a question of managing it somehow and learning to live with various aspects of these things but yes I think in a way maybe I have just created characters like I do with my work and that makes them feel that makes those feelings feel less scary and more like oh beavers are kind of cute I can live with one of those munching on my intestines occasionally just chewing lazily so, I think that probably is what I've done. I made them feel more relatable.

Yeah. But do you think that it gives you valuable comfort in the moment? Because of course, the thing is that a lot of times, you know, you can rationalize all this stuff as much as you want. But in the moment, one of the things you can sometimes feel is this is different. This is worse than before. And this one isn't going to go away. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I think by having these sort of the inner Godzilla stomping on my inner Tokyo, it feels like, oh, this is a familiar feeling.

Right. This isn't. And that helps from thinking, no, this is worse than it's ever been before. No, no. My inner Tokyo has been annihilated before. It's OK. It will rise again. Can I ask you to read another bit? Yes.

I was wondering if you could read another short bit, Imaginary Friend. Oh, yes. I had a difficult relationship with my imaginary friend. She was called Samantha and she was very sophisticated. She had straight hair, she could blow bubbles and she could skip. If only I'd had straight hair or been able to blow bubbles or skip, my life would have been very different. Samantha found my company tiresome.

She was usually too busy to play with me. She was always off having fun with her other friends. Sometimes she'd squeeze me into her hectic social life, but I worried she was doing it out of a sense of duty and she wasn't really enjoying herself. By the time I was 10, she'd stopped showing up. She didn't even say goodbye. Laugh at my suffering is that is that really true how much are you exaggerating there about being abandoned

your imaginary friend no it's all true it's funny a few people said how much of it is true it's all absolutely true right no completely true and it and And while I was writing this, I read a really interesting thing. I don't know if you know this, which is that we only ever remember anything once. Did you know that? How do you mean? So they've done all these experiments on our brains, and apparently we remember something once, and then every time after that, we remember remembering it. Oh. Which is so interesting so as i was writing this it made me realize i mean obviously everyone is subjective and has their version of events but it made me realize in a way we're kind of all writing our memoirs all the time because we're sort of

editing and honing these memories all the time and we're just remembering remembering things so I found that really fascinating and then when I was sort of coming to write you know about my childhood and then my teenage life and my and being a young adult it was so interesting the things that you remember the things that make an impact that could be some tiny seemingly irrelevant moment that stays with you you know and it was it's just so random in some ways what our brains cling on to and what can evoke memories in us. It's hard to kind of understand the patterns in some way. Yeah. Well, I think we're going to wrap up, Georgia. I was hoping to at least get to see Rosie. Well, that can be very easily arranged.

Okay. Do you want me to go and grab Rosie? Yes, please. Sure, I'll be right back. Do you want me to go and grab Rosie? Yes, please. Sure, I'll be right back. Rosie is now coughing and may puke. Just to bring everything back to where we started. Will you say hello? Oh, look at her.

There's Rosie. Oh, look. She's so pretty. She is very pretty. Oh, look at that's so pretty. She is very pretty. Oh, look at that face. I love the noble look in her eyes. Yeah, she's very aquiline, I think. Even though she's shaggy. Do you have a dog?

No, I grew up with dogs. I would love a dog. I'm crazy about dogs, but my older son is terrified of dogs. Oh, man. And sometimes people say, well, you know, if you want your son to about dogs, but my oldest son is terrified of dogs. Oh, man. And sometimes people say, well, you know, if you want your son to like dogs, you should get a dog. And I try and explain it's not it doesn't work like that. You know, if you said to me, I don't like Trump, I wouldn't say to you what I tell you what you need to do. Join the GOP.

Get Trump in your house and honestly trust me once you've picked up his poo and fed him and once he's slept on your bed a few you'll love him you'll trust me you'll love him you'll change your mind wait this is an advert for Squarespace. Every time I visit your website, I see success. Yes, success. The way that you look at the world makes the world want to say yes. It looks very professional. I love browsing your videos and pics, and I don't want to stop

And I'd like to access your members area and spend in your shop These are the kinds of comments people will say about your website if you build it with Squarespace Just visit squarespace.com slash Buxton for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, because you will want to launch, use the offer code Buxton to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. So put the smile of success on your face with Squarespace. Yes. Continue.

Hey, welcome back, podcats. That was Georgia Pritchett talking to me there. Very much enjoyed meeting her and having a chat. What a pleasure. And very exciting to hear about the process of writing on a show like Succession. Can't wait for series three. The end of the second series was so incredibly tense and exciting. One of those TV moments where I found myself standing up, I think, and acting like a bit of a loon because I was so overe-excited. That happened to me when I was watching the end of the first season of Happy Valley as well, Sally Wainwright's cop drama. There's also the final

episodes of Vikings that have come out. Quite looking forward to those. Do you like Vikings? have come out quite looking forward to those do you like vikings ragnar losbrook and loki and uh all the guys i can't remember anyone's net lagatha remember lagatha i could probably remember some of the others it's one of those shows that's on quite infrequently, so you have to wait a good year between serieses, and by which time, no, I've forgotten all the names. I can't remember the names of my friends, let alone some semi-fictional Viking people. Anyway, very grateful to Georgia for her time. Thanks so much, Georgia. Links in the description of the podcast to Waterstones, where you can buy her book, My Mess is a Bit of a Life. Also, a link to one of my favorite TV appearances by the late comedian Norm Macdonald. I'm sure the hardcore comedy fans amongst you are You are well aware that Norm died last week, quite suddenly and unexpectedly, age 61.

Maybe some of you heard about it and thought, who's Norm Macdonald? He was quite a strange, fringe character, very much loved and respected in comedy circles, but perhaps not that well known immediately outside he's quite an odd one because he was in many ways a provocateur ex saturday night live cast member who had kind of matinee back in the day was just this beautiful man but had a uh very odd edgy pointed sense of humor kept on making jokes about oj simpson who he was convinced was guilty of having murdered his wife and just wouldn't stop mentioning it in the jokes he did on Saturday Night Live's news update section. But all his jokes were delivered with this twinkly eyed charm and he didn't seem to give a shit if people didn't like the jokes, which were often quite offensive

and you couldn't really tell if he really believed what he was saying or if he just wanted to get a reaction. And it was this strange juxtaposition with Norm Macdonald of very sweet, kind of old-timey humour with this often quite shocking determination to say things that most people have agreed shouldn't really be said for whatever reason like either for legal reasons or taste reasons or because it's just not very helpful a lot of the time so you've got to tread carefully with norm if you're going to dig deep there's so much stuff of him on youtube but there's a clip of him that I really love when he was on David Letterman, one of the last David Letterman shows in 2015. And when Letterman was wrapping up his talk show, he invited a lot of his friends and people he admired to come and perform. And Norm was one of those. In fact, Norm was the last comedian that performed on Letterman's talk show.

In fact, Norm was the last comedian that performed on Letterman's talk show. And he does this great set that is not one of his kind of controversial shockathons. It is pretty straightforward with his trademark kind of amused, giggly delivery. And then he gets quite emotional towards the end of the set when he's saying thanks to david letterman himself quite a complicated uh figure in many ways and maybe not totally comfortable with gushing displays of emotion. So it's quite an amazing moment. Well, it was to me anyway, when Norm is getting tearful and David Letterman comes out and embraces him. And the clip is made more poignant,

like a lot of clips floating around on YouTube of Norm Macdonald, because he must have known that he had cancer by then. He didn't tell anyone. He was diagnosed nine years ago, apparently, and made the decision not to tell people because he felt that it would get in the way of people finding him funny. Anyway, that's why it was a big news story, I think,

in the comedy world, because it took everyone totally by surprise. You know, he was only 61. He was still doing a lot of funny bits and pieces. He certainly was no less funny than he used to be. And it seemed as if we were going to get a few more years of strange, funny, controversial, cancelable stuff from Norm. Anyway, I put a link to that Letterman clip in the description if you haven't seen it. What else? Hey, thanks to those of you who came along to my shows, book tour shows recently.

I was in London last week doing a show at the Royal Festival Hall that was very exciting I think that was probably the biggest show I've ever done and it was a good evening I hope you enjoyed it but I did want to apologize for not being around to sign books afterwards if you were there and expected entirely reasonably as it was a book show, to be able to come and get your book signed and say hello afterwards. And at the 11th hour, it turned out not to be an option. So many live venues are still trying to figure out the best way to proceed in COVID times and combination of factors meant that I couldn't hang around afterwards and sign books. Sorry about that. If you really want a book signed, you can always send a copy with an SAE to

my agent. I'll put the address of my agent in the description of the podcast. I hope I will be able to do some actual proper signings at some of the other book shows as time goes on and guidelines shift. We'll see how it goes. Okay, that's it for the podcast today. Thank you very much indeed once again to Georgia Pritchett for giving up her time to talk to me. Thanks to Becca Tashinsky for all her work on this episode. Much appreciated, Becca. Thanks to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for his ongoing production support and ACAST for theirs. Yeah? Yeah? What?

Yes? Hello? You what? Yep? COVID? Hello? Sport? Yes? yes hello you what yep covid hello sport yes vikings yep yeah okay all right what kind of bird is that just the one bird call for this chap it's pretty much just sticking with that this works i'm going to just do this over and over again that is according to chirpomatic my bird call identifying app not sponsored by them uh a robin or a goldfinch no that's a robin. Beautiful robin. See ya. All right.

Hey, look. Take care of yourselves out there. Oh, look, it's nice now. It's nice over here. I'm looking over to the east. Nice. If I turn around, look over to the west. Apocalyptic.

So don't look over to the west. Keep your eyes on the east. And until next time, we are in the same outer space. Quick hug. Take good care. I love you. Bye! Bye. សូរបស់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប� Thank you.