THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.18 - SARA PASCOE

Episode Date: April 28, 2016

Adam talks with stand up comedian, actor and writer Sara Pascoe about expensive juice, first class plane travel, her new book 'Animal', whether audiobooks count as reading, jealousy and other important ramble topics. Thanks to Matt Lamont for editing help and Seamus Murphy-Mitchell for production support. Music and jingles by Adam Buxton Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week's podcast contains very little swearing, but there is an appearance by the absolute star of the swearing world, the Tom Cruise of Swearington, the C-word. You've been warned. I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin. Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening. I took my microphone and found some human folk. Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke. My name is Adam Buxton. I'm a man. I want you to enjoy this. That's the plan. Hey, how are you doing, podcats? Adam Buxton here. Back in the woods where I belong. Striding amongst the stunted nettle population.

The nettles are looking quite forlorn. Normally, actually, I don't know. They're probably making normal progress i guess but they must be alarmed by this weather i don't like it it's freezing and windy and it is discouraging us from our rampant spring slash summertime propagation program. We would like to expand our sphere of influence across the rural areas and also into more or less anywhere where there's some soil behind sheds, around gardens, you know, anywhere really, a bit of soil, even if it's like just some stones and all that. We'll set up house there as well, but not so sure this year with the weather. Don't rain? Is it going to rain now? I stepped out of

the house and it was a little gap in the freezing wind and a bit of sunshine, and now it's raining on my ass just because I impersonated some nettles. Oh, dear, everyone's very touchy, aren't they? Hey, listen, welcome to podcast number 18 with stand-up comedian, actor and writer Sarah Pascoe. Yay! Sarah's been on all the panel shows over here in the United Queendom. And she's a very funny, silly and intelligent stand-up comedian. That sounds quite patronising, doesn't it?

Didn't mean it to be. But that's how I see her work and I like it very much. She has acted in TV shows like The Thick of It, Being Human, 2012, W1A. I could go on, but I'm not going to because I'd get jealous. That's actually a call forward or a tease to something that we talk about later on in the podcast, not the TV shows. I forgot to ask her about those, but the jealousy. We talk about that, much more important. Sarah is currently aged 34 and is a cisgender heterosexual female involved with a cisgender male man who also identifies as a stand-up comedian. His name is John Robbins. He's got a much-loved radio show on at the moment on Radio X in London

and he is, as well as being a stand-up and a TV personality, and he's going to be on the podcast too at some point. Not that either of them, Sarah or John, I would like to point out, stipulated that the other one had to be on the podcast as a condition of their appearing. Why would they? It would be submental. And frankly, I would have stood up to it. Anyway, the only reason I mention that Sarah's going out with John is that she herself mentions John later on. So I wanted you to know who she meant.

It's another forward call. You're welcome. Now, Sarah and I had our ramble chat last week when I was in London. That's mid-April 2016, if you're from the future. And before we got onto the subjects of juice, Play-Doh, first-class plane travel, books, jealousy, etc., there was something altogether more important, and I'm afraid to say sadder, that we needed to deal with. So, as the rain intensifies and I prepare to get soaked,

I've got to cycle into town now. I'm just about to do a bug show in Norwich. Anyway, that's my problem. Rosie, come on. Let's go back because we're going to get wet. Here we go. Ramble chat, let's have a ramble chat. We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that. Come on, let's chew the fat and have a ramble chat. Put on your conversation coat and find your talking hat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, I'm sat here with Sarah Pascoe minutes after she looked at her phone,

read out a text from a friend and asked me, has Prince just died? And I said, no, he's not died. And Sarah said, well, why is someone sending me a text saying, have you killed Prince? Yeah, that's exactly what it was. It was the police. They're after me.

But we are sat here now. I mean, by the time this goes out, you guys will have processed the fact that Prince has died. And many of you will have been... They might know about other people that have died. Right. They'll be ahead of us in death. Probably, there's going to be other...

If Victoria Wood dies one day and then Prince dies the next... I mean, where do you go from there? And already when Victoria Wood died, people were saying, what the hell is going on with this year? Yeah. And now, Prince... Yeah. it's too weird it's too ridiculous because these are people that we thought were immortal i think yeah you know i'm only i'm still processing of course bowie dying yeah and rick male i think a lot of people are still sure really

really hugely affected and still in the grieving process for him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And his work. It's very odd. I was thinking that maybe it's something to do with there being so many famous people now. Could that be it? Like there's just, we are aware of more celebrities. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there could be. There's a boom time.

And also the beginnings of the media where you didn't just know someone's work. They weren't just in Rising Damp, for instance. Yeah. You knew a bit about their love life or a bit about... You see them in chat shows and interviews and maybe you feel more connected to people. Uh-huh.

Maybe? Oh, it's so sad. 57. Yeah. And Victoria Wood as well, 62. These are people who definitely still had a lot to contribute. Absolutely. And also there are ages that sound really old when you're 19.

Right. But when you're older than 19, suddenly sound like, what, that is not fair. No, exactly. How dare you? I've got plans for when I'm 57 or 62. Yeah, what are you going to do? You wait.

Yeah? Okay. It's going to be Buckles at his brilliant best. Okay, but don't leave everything till then, just in case. And imagine how poignant this is going to sound, this podcast, if Buckles pops his clogs next year or later this year. I mean, it seems like this year is the big year for like... No, I don't want you to die this year

because I feel like you're not going to get the publicity you deserve. I feel like you should wait. That's true, isn't it? But don't try and join in this year in case you're left off the lists of all the people who died this year. There will be people who are semi-famous who are not included in the big list, and that's a sad thing. Yeah, you are going to get...

I don't want Ronnie Corbett to drop off it. There are people where you... Well, the guy from the Eagles, Don Henley. Don Henley. Good old Don. He had been died. Was it Don? I mean, I've never heard that name before in my life. I'm just playing along. Shut up. No. The Eagles, who are a band, presumably.

Hotel California. Are you joking with me now? Okay, I do know the Eagles and I do know Hotel California, but I don't know any of their individual names. Don Henley's still alive. Okay. Hang on. Who's the guy? There was another guy from the Eagles who died.

This is no good. Oh, no, it's going to be really poignant if he then dies after this. Glenn Frey. Glenn. Good old Glenn. He is on. Oh, so he wasn't in the Eagles? He's on the street. He was in the Eagles. That, so he wasn't in the Eagles? He's on the street.

He was in the Eagles. That was one of his hits after the Eagles. Adam, I can't believe you don't sing the theme tune live. Do you want me to? I thought that's how it would begin. All right, then. Yeah. OK.

I might sing along. I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin. You have picked that podcast up. I used to say, now you have picked that mother out and started listening. And then I thought that was too rude. So calling something a mother? Yeah. Is it rude?

Well, MF, you know. You worry so much. I do, I worry a lot. You do, won't you worry? Mother on its own is not rude. No, but it's supposed to be, you know, it's like a contraction of mother frangler. Is it? Okay. Okay. So that's no good.

Okay, well, I'm glad you dropped it then. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I don't care. Maybe. Also, we're in trouble now anyway because we've probably been too flippant and disrespectful about Prince. I know, I think we have to. I think we're shocked still. Because it's just happened. I did a two-part Bowie Wallow podcast expressing all my angsty depression about Bowie dying.

And there are people out there who are going to feel just as sad about Prince. Oh, absolutely, of course. I know. I think they're probably dancing at Brixton Station as we speak to Purple Rain. Well, Minneapolis is going to be very sad. Is that where he was from?

Yeah. There's a brilliant stand-up called Nish Kumar. Sure, I know Nish Kumar. You know Nish? Well, Minneapolis is going to be a very sad... Is that where he was from? Yeah. Place to name. There's a brilliant stand-up called Nish Kumar. Sure, I know Nish Kumar. You know Nish? Of course, we all know Nish. And he does some brilliant stand-up about how when ISIS changed their name, everyone's like, oh, cool, you want to be called the Islamic State now, you want to be called this now.

But whenever Prince changes his name, we're like, nah, he's still Prince. Right. I hope he will have more respect for terrorists. It's true, isn't it? Yeah. When he would like, I'm this now, like, nah, he's still Prince. I hope he will have more respect for terrorists. It's true, isn't it? Yeah. When he would like, I'm this now, like, Prince. The artist formerly known as Daesh. Now listen, Sarah, I've got

you a gift. Have you? Yeah. And you can choose. I've got you a refreshment gift. Oh, okay. I've bought you a glass of water, but I also got you like a fruit thing. But I don't know, it could go either way because I don't know if this is going to have ingredients that maybe you're against or if it's from a shop.

Neither of those are meat items. Right. Also, we can't say the name of the shop because we're fine. Can we? I think. Well, what about if they start sending you free flapjacks?

Well, why is that bad? Well, you might not want them. Yeah, definitely want free flapjacks. Okay, right. No, I don't think they will. It's Pret. Short for Pret-a-Manger. Pret. Pret a Manger. Which is French for ready to eat, isn't it?

Yeah, I think so. Aren't they, I think they're owned by McDonald's. McDonald's partly owned, but then we all are, so let's not lie to ourselves. Okay. So anyway, I got you the Mina... Well, that's the best juice. The Mina Greener. That's the best juice. Is it? Have you had it? Yeah. Yeah, it's the best juice. Do you Greener. That's the best juice. Is it? Have you had it? Yeah.

Yeah, it's the best juice. Do you mean that from a taste point of view or a nutrition point of view? Oh, I know. I mean, I think with all prepackaged juices, they actually are like having a soft drink. As in, they're like having a Fanta. Oh, shit. We can't lie to ourselves that they're healthy. What?

Yeah. Because all of the good stuff goes immediately after juicing. You have to have... Anyway, but that's a topic for another time. All right, and I also got the mandarin and lychee. Yeah. OK, so you're drinking now from the Mina Greener yummy apple juice with... Lettuce and basil.

Lettuce and basil. And I've got the mandarin and lychee. The label says, this bottle of drink is full of nothing. There are no weird, unpronounceable chemicals, no preservatives and no aspartame. None whatsoever. We could have added strange ingredients to make this a health-enhancing tonic, in quotes.

We didn't. It's a blend of natural fruit extracts, fruit juices and still water. So they're being honest and they're using the language. How does that make you feel? Of honesty. They're like my friend, Sarah. Is that the best chat you've had today? Yes.

With that bottle. With the mandarin and lychee. Yeah. Hello, they're saying. Hey, now I know you're probably with Sarah Pascoe. She's probably bringing you down about your health drinks. But come on, don't listen to her. We haven't put anything bad in this, mate.

So just have fun is what they're saying. Yeah, they are. I do kind of admire the psychology of we could do what we like. We're a monger, but we didn't, right? Yeah, exactly. What would you know? You're an idiot. You drink anything.

You just like the colour. Do you realise that if we wanted, with the power of Ronnie McStinkles, the clown, we could kill you with just the contents of this one bottle? We could have got any kind of poison in this. But we didn't. Please. But, hey, we didn't. Please. But hey, we didn't.

Yeah. That's how nice we are. This time. I'm going to taste it. Yeah. Are you going to then review it for the podcast? Yeah. It, well, they're right.

They put nothing in it. It's full of nothing. It's like one of those revolting flavoured waters, you know? You are drinking squash. It's like weak squash. revolting flavoured waters, you know? You are drinking squash. It's like weak squash. Yeah, it's weak squash. If you'd got this squash back in the day after a game of football... It just would have been in a glass from someone else's mum,

not going... You would have spat it out and going, your mum can't make squash, man! Yeah, but his mum's like, I didn't put any arsenic in this or tea bags or spoons of sugar. That is absolute dog shit. And I bet that cost £1.89. At least.

Ridiculous. At least. Absolutely ridiculous. I mean, the thing you're drinking. £3.99. I know the price of this, my friend. That is. Because I got superstitious once that I had to drink these

before every gig or I'd have a bad gig. And that was an expensive superstition for a while. But then always luckily you then do it and then get a really bad gig and then you realise it wasn't magic. And then you have to find a new thing. Okay. Yeah. What's your current thing now?

Oh. You used to drink booze before a show, but you don't, right? Yeah, that's true. Yeah. I used to, but I was always, I thought it helped me with feeling nervous. Uh-huh. So now I don't drink before, but I just drink all of the rest of the time. Right, right, right.

That's the best way. Yeah. No, I don't drink before a show either. No. Because I mean, I struggle with being articulate. Yes. Normally anyway. I think it slows down some processes.

But another, the thing that's really nice about it is there's a point of drinking where something, you know the click, like the brick cat on the hot tin roof thing. But another thing that's really nice about it is there's a point of drinking where something, you know, the click, like the brick cat on the hot tin roof thing. There's a real brief window where you're like, I'm untouchable. Yes. I can do anything and I'm a king. And so you can try and orchestrate that. Like I need to drink one big glass of wine really quickly just before I go on. Or half an hour before I need to have one pint, half a glass of water.

Then I'm in it. I'm trying. And that's dangerous. Now and then I like to stop the chat and put the jingle in. It stops the ramble topics leaking out and mingling. And if you like, you can take a little dance. Move your body around inside your pants. I'm moving. Now I'm groving. I'm moving once again.

And now it's back to the podcast. Who's this guy? I don't know. How are you feeling? You just got back from Australia. Yeah, Australia. Like two days ago. Two days, yeah. It takes me about two weeks to recover from that kind of journey. I've decided that jet lag is a state of mind. Well, I mean, you are younger and healthier than I am. I don't think it's to do with that.

I think you can't drink any alcohol on the plane, which is a shame because it's free and you want to. And you can't have caffeine the day that you fly because that makes jet lag worse. But other than that, I think it's a state of mind. But, and may I ask what class you flew i've never flown in first class or business class have you not no this was the first trip where i thought about upgrading because you were going out for a festival yes i went for a festival do they fly

you out they do fly you out so they they buy your flights and they pay for your accommodation while you're there so you considered upgrading your flight so you so i thought about it for the first time now if you'd said that to me three years ago i'd have probably spat on you i'm gone i deserved it will only ever be here yeah and and there is a thing like it goes through your mind i'll find out how much an upgraded oh it's whatever it is 700 pounds or 1500 pounds and you think oh that's a panel show or a panel show or that's one really successful tour show and you start kind of legitimising it to yourself and then you'd have a much more pleasurable experience.

It's a day of your life and it's fine. Several Mina Greener smoothies. And then you remember the world and you go, I can't be that guy. I would love to be the guy, and it happened to Joel Domet last time, where the woman behind the desk goes, hey, you look nice, would you like to go to first class? Yes. And you watch them walk past you like, imagine that.

So I think you just have to wait until that happens to you. So what about you? No, I don't. I've never been. Well, we got upgraded, me and my wife, when we were on our honeymoon. Oh, did you? I see, that's nice. We went to San Francisco, yeah.

Oh, lovely. We flew Virgin. And they knew you on your honeymoon? Yeah. Oh, they did? Yeah. Oh, that's nice. And suddenly, bongo, first class.

And it was brilliant. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. That's the other difficulty. If you start doing it, how do you go back? How do you go back? How do you go back? And the thing is, the older you get, and especially when you fly with children as well the more it transforms your experience of flying yeah because

my thing is that um uh and this is a philosophical question as well right like if you have been on a two-week holiday and then you come back transatlantic and that 11 and a half hours or whatever it is on the plane is pure torture, then those 11 hours of pure torture are going to be way more memorable and upsetting than anything good that happened on the holiday. Hey, interestingly, I just read a really brilliant book about the brain and 80% of our memories are negative or traumatic because that's how we learn. So happy things aren't important to our brain in terms of our survival.

Knowing what to avoid or how to deal with it better is really important, which is probably why everyone is so sad. Well, I'll tell you how to deal with it. Yeah. By upgrading. By upgrading. If that's an option, yeah. I mean, listen, it's taken as read that obviously it's a huge amount of money.

Too huge, yeah. Yeah, and it's a terrible waste. I mean, I was talking to Garth Jennings on this podcast a few weeks back about spending a crazy amount of money on a meal. And the conclusion of that story... What is a crazy amount of money on a meal? £1,000. Yeah, that's crazy.

But you have to listen to the podcast. Okay, I will. Because superficially, yes, it is totally unconscionable and indefensible. But the thrust of the conversation was that actually we ended up having an incredibly wonderful and memorable evening. And if you're going to put a price on it, then maybe it would have been around that. I don't know. But the thing is, the thing that tortures me about those people in first class, right, on a plane. You know, they are up there having a brilliant, wonderful, memorable experience.

And I'm in steerage having pure torture, rocking back and forth because I can't sleep and I'm sandwiched between two giant guys or whatever. And probably most of them aren't even paying for it. You know what I mean? They've got air miles or the company's paying or or that kind of thing i think that's okay and also some of them what i like about your story about being upgraded is if everyone just paid there would never be any room for people to be have a wonderful surprise and have a wonderful time also i think people who fly first class all the time it's like everything you must have had targets in your life where you thought if that happens to me i'll never be sad again if i get that thing if i meet that person if i do that job if this thing comes off then i'll

never be sad again and then you get it and it's just another part of your life you don't appreciate like yeah that's just what happened so you'd be in first class and then still be miserable yeah it's not that much better i just think one day i'm gonna to do it all the time no not all the time but once before I think it would have to be such a big adjustment in what money should buy so the thing is you can have a life where and I think I have this now

where I'm not poor and I was poor but money still means what it meant £3.99 for a drink in Pret even though it's completely affordable to me I still Yeah. £3.99 for a drink in Pret, even though it's completely affordable to me, I still know is a ridiculously stupid amount for a juice. Yeah, but no, but... Yeah, but no, but...

Yeah, no. But if it's a one-off... Yeah. Then you do know what money means. You can go back, that's what I mean. Oh, no, I think you can. I think you suffer. I mean, I have.

I think you suffer. I had to. Listen to how you're suffering. It's not fair to put a human being through that. It's letting an animal out of a zoo. No, but everyone else is suffering. It's not as if the people around me in economy are having a brilliant time. Also, one of the times, maybe the time before I went to Australia,

it was an empty plane and everyone had four seats to themselves and we were laughing at the people in first class. Yeah, well, that's happened to me. You think you beat us and sometimes we beat you that's right and it's very very sweet when that happens yeah now that certainly has happened sometimes people meet each other on planes and have nice conversations yeah who was sat next to you on the way back from australia um the first flight i was sitting next to a woman who was having terrible pain oh and had to get some painkillers from the staff.

What kind of pain? I didn't want to ask. Okay, because it might have been personal pain. No, I think all pain is personal. Emotional pain. Yeah. Do you have any Nurofen for heartbreak, please? I imagine it was maybe head pain from where she was touching on herself.

Okay, right. The second time I sat next to a young woman with severe body odor due to a synthetic dress but but yeah we're laughing about it now is it was it very upsetting for you it wasn't upsetting do you know what i find really upsetting and this is terrible i've only just started noticing when people make noises with their mouths. Ah, clicky and sticky. Clicky, sticky, or maybe any kind of sniffing, like when people have a... I'm going to go really close to my mic.

For people at home, that's the worst thing you could have done. I started noticing when people sniff on the train, and I'd never noticed in my entire life. What's the problem with sniffing? Once it happens, it sounds so loud to me and I have to move. And then you realise everyone is sniffing around you. It's like you're being chased and you have to get off the train. My ex-boyfriend, he wouldn't ever let me eat in public.

And he always said, it's disgusting, it makes people feel sick. Yeah, well, a lot of people feel that way. Yeah, and I never felt it. And also, my current boyfriend would never kiss in public. He's like, that makes people feel sick. He would not. If I tried to cry and kiss him, he'd feel very embarrassed and apologise to everyone.

What about holding hands? Yeah, I'm working up to it. See how it goes. What about full sexual intercourse? That's fine, as long as there's no kissing. But that's fine. And how did it go in Australia? Was it fun? Yes. I really like Melbourne. It's a really lovely city.

They take probably 25 British comics over, so it's like a school trip and you all stay in the same hotel. That's my dream. Yeah, it's so great. You could go. People take their families and you have to have their kids there as well. I think it's difficult at school. You've got to be invited first. Okay, I'm inviting you. I'll email them tomorrow. I think I auditioned for the Melbourne comic festival. Not for Melbourne. You don't have to audition for Melbourne. I think it's difficult. You've got to be invited first. Okay, I'm inviting you. I'll email them tomorrow. I think I auditioned

for the Melbourne. Not for Melbourne. You don't have to audition for Melbourne. Do you not? No. But I've heard you talking about Edinburgh before and saying that you don't find the process of performing that enjoyable when you're at a festival like that. I think I'm getting better at it. Not as in better at the job, but as in

better at not suffering so much through it. What is it that makes you suffer? I guess I just, I like all of the, I like rehearsals. I like the previewing, the it's not ready, the bit of being like, da-da, done it. I think, I feel, it makes me feel very ashamed. Why is that? I don't know, I think it's physiological.

The feeling afterwards is just like, oh, it's just physiological. I wish I hadn't done that. Embarrassment. Because you feel you've exposed yourself unnecessarily. It must be that. So Lucy Beaumont's mum, Lucy Beaumont, a brilliant comedian, her mum said to me, of course you feel embarrassed. You just showed everyone your knickers.

Metaphorically. Yeah, but that was a really great way of putting it, of the whole time it's happening, if you were to pause time and go, are you having a nice time, are you happy? I'd go is so clear i'm so focused on this i've worked my entire life to have a job i can't believe anyone comes to see me do it but the feeling straight afterwards is like just a slump like a oh god got away with another one how dare you what are you doing get a proper job well that's interesting isn't? Because a lot of performers bounce off the stage absolutely jazzed with a sense

of their own genius. Yeah, I know. And it's wonderful. And they're the ones that don't want that feeling to end and end up staying up until four in the morning with crazy substances. Yes, they do. Crazy substances. Play-Doh.

Just making these crazy sculptures. Like, they can't make her to bed. Play-Doh is... I remember it smelling great as well. Yeah, I think it is just flour and water and colouring. So you can eat it? I think it is dough. I think. I think it is. Now I think. I think it is.

Now I think I've made that up. What was that one? I could Google it. Smart putty. I should have said smart. Silly putty. Silly putty. It's the opposite.

Smart putty is silly putty's cousin who had extra help at school. Yeah, I'm going to Google it. Here we go. Other search engines are available. According to Hasbro, the manufacturer of Play-Doh, the product is primarily made of water, salt and flour. Yum, yum.

Three completely edible ingredients that your toddler is likely to eat at any given time. It is a non-toxic, non-irritating and non-allergenic substance, so it is generally safe for a toddler to eat Play-Doh. Interesting fact. Yeah. And for a comedian, eat Play-Doh. Interesting fact. Yeah. And for a comedian, it's considered a delicious after-show come-down snack. Apparently.

Now, OK, I'm going to try and give this conversation some shape. Okie dokie. Like Play-Doh. Like Play-Doh. Sarah, you like to read. I love it. What is your favorite book ever yeah um i one of them one of them i read a really amazing book i think you'd like to read um quite recently busy busy world no what do people do all day what do you do all day um it's called come as you are and it's

written by a woman called emily nagoski i'm gonna say it's her name nagoski sounds like a name isn't it um something in those that realm she's a sexologist and she lectures and she's written a really incredible book about sexuality and mindfulness and um female sexuality in particular and things that everyone should know and it's such a readable brilliant book can you this is embarrassing right oh yeah can you define mindfulness for me oh yeah so i didn't know until i read her book so because i'm someone who uh uh i guess obviously i know i'm just checking you know also i listened to a really brilliant podcast the invisibilia podcast the history of thought it's the first time I understood.

So number one, there's three waves in psychology. There was psychoanalysis, which is your thoughts mean everything. If you think, oh, I'm going to kill my father, that's probably because you want to kill your father. Let's spend 40 years talking about why you had that thought. And then you had cognitive behavioral therapy, which is the next wave, and that was much more about how you can trick yourself into not thinking certain things in order to cope better and then you have mindfulness which is like thoughts are just

disjected from your brain you just excrete them so just let them flow through you you have a thought about killing your dad we all think lots of things it doesn't mean that much so don't get hung up on it well also just let it pass through you when you start to look at things too directly or to give them too much weight or not enough weight so it's just a mindfulness is about being really really honest about where you are and thinking about what you feel and then just allowing it to go through you we have these feelings sometimes and sometimes they can be really strong but when we try not to think about them you strengthen them yeah but that's kind of like advising someone who's really nervous before they go on stage not to be nervous.

No, it's not. Or saying to someone, like, just be yourself. No, but it's never saying not be nervous. It's being like, what it isn't doing is going, you shouldn't be nervous or you've done this before or anything logical. It's going, you are nervous. Yeah, but how does that help?

No, it doesn't help help but it's a state that you are in so being unhappy is a state just like being happy and so sometimes you just have to go this is what i'm feeling right now and that isn't the wrong feeling it's just a fact sometimes the struggle comes like i shouldn't be nervous i should enjoy my job or why am i getting in my head instead of being like okay i'm nervous today I accept it I accept it and I think I'm not someone who's done any mindfulness but I think that's the point okay with being all right with what you feel all right so you read this uh sexy book yeah yeah sexy book so what was really interesting I thought and I think what people should know more about is um so the whole idea that um sexual arousal has accelerators and brakes and so she

describes this really brilliantly so you have things that turn you on and you have things that turn you off and that with women clicky noises clicky noises people sniffing um so you have accelerators and brakes and when someone has sexual dysfunction as a society we handle it with like put more accelerators in so with a woman a woman saying i don't feel very sexy i'm 34 i don't feel very sexy buy a sexy underwear get a massive vibrator why don't you try this watch pornography with your partner all these things and no one ever goes let's look at the things are you not feeling very confident about yourself does your love not make you feel good about your body look at the breaks you take things away they did all these studies where they found out things like when women have cold feet, they're much less likely to orgasm.

Actual cold feet, not metaphorical cold feet. Actual cold feet. Right. So, and the study was back to front, first of all, because they did an MRI. So obviously women were masturbating in MRIs and women with no socks on weren't orgasming as much. And they were like, oh, women find socks sexy.

Women are well into socks. And they got it all the wrong way round. And then they realised, oh, no, it's distracting when you've got cold feet. So people think they've got sexual problems when they haven't. You can't fight those with accelerators, but you can make yourself more comfortable. So her whole book's about that. I thought that was really interesting and really important.

You recommended a book to me called... Oh, no, not this. It wasn't just you as well, because I recommended it to David Baddiel as well, and the same mistake ensued. Now, was it a typo or did we just read it wrong? We all read it wrong. We all read it wrong.

So you recommended a book called Fear of Dying. Dying, as in because some of my friends have experienced death recently. Right, this is by Erica Jong. And the book is very funny, very wise and it's about parental death. And to make life more complicated it is a kind of spiritual sequel to Fear of Flying.

Which is sexy. Which she wrote in 1973. And it's a seminal book. It's a seminal book and it sort of turned the 70s upside down and made a whole generation aware that women had sexual feelings. Well, it gave voice to them. I think women knew they had sexual feelings already. I know, but I'm saying it made people aware

in a way that they hadn't been before. And as you say, yeah, it made a lot of women feel that, oh, it's fine for me to think all these things. And I think it was a talking point and, yeah, yeah. And anyway, so the week you sent me the email, in fact, was the week after Radio 4 had serialised it. Yeah, the fear of flying, not the fear of dying. Fear of flying, yeah.

And I had been sat in the kitchen one morning listening to Woman's Hour or whatever it was with this extract of fear of flying with someone using the phrase the zipless fuck. Yes. Which she talks about in the book. And also talks about in fear of flying with someone using the phrase, the zipless fuck, which she talks about in the book. And also talks about in fear of dying. So when you wrote back to me and said, oh, yeah, I heard a bit of that, all of those zipless fucks,

I was like, yeah, because that's also in fear of dying. Right, OK. Which is why I didn't tweak, first of all, that I had recommended, hey, I know I don't know you that well, but with everything that's happened recently, I think you'd enjoy this sex book. Yeah, I know very odd i was like okay so sarah's into fear of flying that's fine and uh i was saying yeah it was great it was wonderful to to be listening to radio 4 at 11 in the morning and here's someone talking about zipless fucking and so i read it i thought well

okay i'll give it a go yeah as i imagine you reading that i can imagine like a raised eyebrow like okay i'm still waiting for the reason that this is the book you've recommended it's not it's interesting it's a it's a sort of fun book should i read you a passage yes please uh okay so so she's trying to get into this speaking event she's a spy in the world of analysis exactly and the lady is refusing her entry because she doesn't have the right accreditation or something. And so Erica Jong or her character in this book writes, I'm so sorry. Zoe spelt ZO. The Austrian bitch kept repeating. But I really have not got the authority to admit you.

Just following orders, I suppose, says the character. I have instructions to obey, she said. You and Eichmann, says the character. Pardon? She hadn't heard me. Somebody else had. I turned round and saw this blonde, shaggy-haired Englishman with a pipe hanging out of his face. Boris Johnson.

Boris Johnson. If you'd stop being paranoid for a minute and use charm instead of main force, I'm sure nobody could resist you, he said. He was smiling at me the way a man smiles when he's lying on top of you after a particularly good lay. You've got to be... Is that a smile?

Yeah. Is that a type of smile? That's the best kind of smile. Is that a type of smile? Come on. That's the most joyous smile there is. You can't be bothered to get off. After a good lay only.

After a bad lay, it's just like a very level mouth, like on a emoticon. And you can't breathe and you're like, stop smiling and get off. You've got to be an analyst, I said. Nobody else would throw the word paranoid around so freely. He grinned. He was wearing a very thin white cotton Indian kurta and I could see his reddish blonde chest hair curling underneath it. Cheeky cunt, he said. Then he grabbed a fistful of my ass and gave it a long playful squeeze. You've a lovely ass, he said. Come, I'll see to it that you get into the conference.

And then she has an affair with him because she thinks he's so brilliant. Oh, my God. So it's a funny old book. But the description of the ass grabbing did remind me of Play-Doh. Yeah. All of a sudden, just getting a fistful. But she loves the C word. And back in those days, it was used in a different way.

The swearing thing's odd. I don't really swear on stage. Now some, let's say very infrequently, maybe once every six weeks, a couple of old ladies will come up to me after a show and go, we come to see you because you don't swear. Oh, okay. Not because they like me. Because you work clean. I talk about very sexual things, but I don I don't use, I don't curse.

Oh, right. Yeah. But in real life I do. But just not on stage really. Yeah, well, it's a good discipline to have, I think. So anyway, Fear of Flying. So I read Fear of Flying with an eyebrow raised. Yeah.

And then I spoke to you again. I was like, so yeah, Fear of Flying. It's pretty racy stuff. Yeah. And you said not Fear of Flying. No. And I felt physically sick. I felt physically sick. Like, oh no, I it's pretty racy stuff. Yeah. And you said, not fear of flying. No, and I felt physically sick. I felt physically sick, like, oh, no, I don't know Adam very well.

So it's not like with someone that you could really, like, oh, this is a funny story. The entirety of that book, you thought that was the book I'd recommended, is sad, and I can never take that time back. We're halfway through the podcast. I think it's going really great. that time back. Hawking. I'm interested in what you said. Thank you. There's fun chat and there's deep chat. It's like Chris Evans is meeting Stephen Hawking. Can I say one thing?

Mm-hmm. Radio 4. Okay. Yeah. So I've never listened to the radio, but since getting podcasts, I've started listening to some Radio 4 podcasts. And they say such stupid things.

So the thing I heard on Women's Hour, they said, once every ten years there's a seminal feminist book. And that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. That there's one every ten years, that it's a regular system, and that there's nothing in between. And that's what they were saying. And they could, like, you can list it through. And that's like saying once every ten years there's a good album.

Yeah, it's odd. And when someone says that, you have to go, I need to stop listening to you because that's not how things work. I'm wary of criticising Radio 4 though because it's the kind of thing that you are going to miss it if Radio 4 goes. I mean, you may not listen to it all the time now.

No, I'm not saying I think they should be switched off. Yeah, I know what you mean. No, of course there's a load of ludicrous stuff on there. I just think making sweeping statements about things. Sure. Because of what we were saying earlier, I'm so wishy-washy. We're both wishy-washy.

Yeah, so I wouldn't go... We love to wish and wash. And after wishing, we wash. We wish we were washing. What should we do now? Let's wish again. But so I would never make a statement, like a huge cultural thing that it could be defined in time. Yeah.

And in a pattern. Sure. Look, it's nuts that there's be defined in time. Yeah. And in a pattern. Sure. Look, it's nuts that there's a programme called Woman's Hour. Yeah. Give us two hours, guys. Surely. You've got 23. It's a good show, though.

You can sleep through it, OK? Just give us a... It is a good show and they've got good stuff on there. And it's really, really fascinating. They interview fascinating people. I'm doing it next week. Are you? Yeah.

Hey, because you've got a book, right? Yeah. So this is why I was going to ask you about books. I bought you a copy of Burger Catcher. Did you really? Yeah, I did. Fantastic. So I should have given it to you and you gave me juice and then we'd have been present friends. Alright. That's my book. Here's your book. Here's my book. Sarah Pascoe, Animal, The Autobiography of

a Female Body. Yeah. And this is great. I'm looking forward to reading this. So on the back it says a tremendously exciting voice, timely, intelligent, buzzing with comedic charm. Pascoe, ah, you're getting

the surname treatment. You've arrived. I like a surname treatment. Sure. Makes me feel like I'm on a football team. You're being taken seriously. I like it when other comics

call me Pascoe. Sure. Yeah. That's my dream. Yeah. Pascoe has something to say and a thoroughly engaging way of saying it and you've been doing press for this book all day right yeah today yeah so what is the what's your standard line how do you don't have one yet no so i'm in that really gabberly phase right where you don't yet know. Gabbly Roslyn. Gabbly Roslyn. I wish and then I wash.

And I just, so they say, what's it about? And I just go, oh, gosh. And everything sounds like a lie and everything makes it sound like it's rubbish. Uh-huh. I need to get my business on. Sell it to me now! No!

Sell it now! Sell it! No! Sell it! No. Sell it. Because I don't want to sell it. I don't want to be a businessman.

Tell me what it's about then. Oh, I don't know. You told me what it was about when you were writing it. No, because I don't want to sell it. I don't want to be a businessman. Tell me what it's about. I don't know. You told me what it was about when you were writing it. Yes, so I've written a book. I wanted to find out lots of things for myself and I was very interested that there wasn't already a book about how the female body evolved. There's lots of books about evolution,

but they basically look at men. And the people who discovered evolution and these Victorian scientists, everything was very skewed from a male point of view and they didn't believe that women had a sexuality they thought that women derived pleasure from pregnancy not from copulation and there's all of these things that are very interesting that i thought our culture is very heavily sitting atop so the first third is about bonding and love and the second chapter is about bonding and love. And the second chapter is about the body, including the genitals and body fat. And then the third one is about consent, because I thought I was going to write a tiny little bit about how, obviously, like all animals, forced sex has been part of our evolution.

And then it became so complicated that it became a whole entire third. And are you girding yourself for a year of heated political debating about some of the themes you're exploring here? In the best-case scenario, it would be... I wrote my book hoping that maybe it's completely readable for a 15-year-old or 16-year-old. There's no human being as strong or strident as a teenage girl, and I think that's what's brilliant about them. And so that's kind of my... When people go, who are you writing for it i guess it's it's that

it's the audience but my mum interestingly read it and then while i was in australia she read me said i've sent some parcels to her house i was like oh that's so sweet she went oh no it's just pepper spray and a rape alarm because i think you're going to get attacked now oh yeah like i think you've misinterpreted everything I was saying. Yeah. What do you think is potentially the most controversial? Do you think there is anything controversial in there? I think, oh, if you want to be controversial,

I talk in detail about having an abortion at 16. Uh-huh. And there's a few things, like kind of, I did some light self-harm when I was a teenager. I carved fat into my body. My editor thought I shouldn't put that in. And then I had to talk about that in the book that an editor said. You carved the word fat?

Yeah, carved it with a razor blade. Oh, no. Yeah, but that's the kind. And I had this big discussion with him, like, have you ever met a teenage girl? That's what they do. And he was like, oh. But he was like, no, no, no.

That's a really huge thing you're putting out there. And I was like, i just don't think you remember being an adolescent but then but then then i wrote about that and that was good and then obviously other things like starving yourself or things that people do yeah and so it's not that they're controversial but anything could be picked out as in a detail and that's the thing though isn't it because now it's so hard to have nuanced discussions about these very emotive topics but that's the advantage of writing a book because then no matter what someone takes out you know that if someone was to read the whole you can

refer them to the no but also you've stated your argument thoroughly with no one interrupting you yeah so you can kind of justify it to yourself even if someone takes something out of context sure i think i talked to you about this book while you were writing it, and you mentioned that you were writing about periods, I suppose. Yes, loads about menstruation, yeah. Because I had a sort of obsession with the idea of periods because I was one of these people that found out at a certain point or was told at a certain point that after a while,

women who are close friends start to synchronise. Yes, it's called the McClintock effect, but it's completely been disproved by so many studies. It doesn't happen. What about the phases of the moon? Well, that's the thing that is scientific, which is so odd. So 30% of women are on their period when there's a full moon. It doesn't sound like a lot,

but the next lowest down amount of women ever menstruating at the same time in the month is 12.5%. So it's double right this is odd thing so it does seem to be affected by the moon childbirth seems to be affected by the moon and last longer what possible explanation could there be well we're made of water and tides so it's just gravity yeah yeah but also sleep affects periods and melatonin so if you less, you interfere with your period. And so they think that the light of the moon, because you know that when it's a full moon, everyone has five minutes less sleep.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, so there's things that they do think that our body is related to the light. Right. Yeah, I think it's really odd that boys are taken out of the room when girls at school are taught about periods. Yeah, I mean, the squeamishness about periods was always something

that mystified me and i just thought crazy i thought it was a fascinating thing that women have to put up with it and it just nothing comparable happens to men i was researching because i did no such thing as a fish yesterday and my subject was about these um well in the 20s they had a theory that women when they were menstruating had toxins in their skin and their sweat and their tears and it's called menotoxins and they did a study that women, when they were menstruating, had toxins in their skin and their sweat and their tears, and it's called menotoxins, and they did a study where if women held flowers, they wilted. But anyway, so I was researching periods. They think that maybe bloodletting,

the idea of that in medicine came from the fact that women felt cramps and were ill, then let blood out, then felt better. Isn't that interesting? That is interesting. Yeah, because it is really crazy that usually if someone was in pain and bleeding, they'd be sick. But women have this cyclical sickness.

Yeah. I think for pre-modern humans, there would have been something very confusing about it. Absolutely. Yeah. You've written a book. I know. That's good, man. It's weird though, isn't it, as well?

You've got like, that's a slice of immortality there. I think so, but then also, you know like I was saying about feeling bad about shows? Yeah. Then it's also just like this permanent show. And I'm sure people have DVDs and things where it it's the equivalent of it but you can't change it how are you feeling about the promotional treadmill are you going to go on it or are you going to emotional treadmill i'm doing well i'm doing a live tour with literary festivals but because i love books so much every time they invite me to a book festival i look at who's on and I lose my mind. Like, I might meet Jeanette Winterson.

Oh, yeah. I might get to stand next to... David Walliams. David Walliams. Don't get me started. So, I mean, I meant in a good way, not in a bad way. I wasn't being mean to David Walliams.

Of course. Here's a question for you, Sarah. Yeah. Audiobooks. Does listening to an audiobook count as having read a book? I've does listening to an audiobook count as having read a book i've never listened to an audio you're not nope but does it count as having read a book yes because you've heard all the words so i think reading a book does mean the same

but there's the act you just read them with your eyes ingesting info through your eyes yeah is somehow different isn't it no i think reading a book means ingesting a book. Not. So hearing a book is reading it with your ears. But there is a difference though, isn't there? Superficially, one is active and the other is passive. Do you think? I think that's how

people characterise it. I'm saying this as someone who loves listening to audiobooks and who hopes that it counts as having read a book i if i thought if it was a little bit like you zone in and out of it and it's background noise so like if you were listening to a book before you went to sleep and then you fell asleep and the next day you don't go back and see what you've missed but you can do that you can look at a book and not absorb it very well that can be very passive yeah i mean this is the thing i have similarly intense and

clear memories of reading books as i do to listening to them you know what i mean um they are as real for me so who says it's not reading i've never heard anyone say that no i've heard a few people say what guys is this you know i've just heard you have heard people say did you read them saying that or did you hear them saying it i think i overheard it may have zoned out halfway through um well that's interesting i'm glad you feel that way but you're lucky though because you are able to read incredibly fast and so you read a lot of books yeah do you feel as if you're really properly absorbing i mean i get the impression that you are that's what john John would say. John would say that's not reading. And in some ways that's true.

If someone ran through the National Gallery and said, I've seen all the paintings, I loved it here, you would think, well, I stood in front of one and I was very moved. And then after it, I'd absorbed so much, I didn't want to see anything else. I had to kind of contemplate that for the rest of the afternoon. You'd look at those two people and you'd go,

one of those people really does appreciate the work and really felt it properly. And the other person is just desperate for stimulation and to never feel anything. When I was little, you know, my dad was a writer. Yeah. And he read a huge amount. He loved the Patrick O'Brien books.

I don't know if you've ever read any of those. He wrote Master and Commander and all this naval. Yes, I did. I read Master and Commander. An ex-boyfriend was obsessed with those books. Yeah, well, they are. I found them so shippy. They're too shippy.

They're too shippy, mate. And it's got, like, heavy nautical jargon. You've got to really care about the names of nets. Yeah, man. Yeah, I really, I finished the first one. That's too shippy. I was done. Yeah.

They are well shippy. But you, when you were little, presumably you just had an innate appetite for reading. Yes, I think both of my parents are readers, though. There was always a book in front of my mum's face and my dad loves books so much. But neither of my parents do I ever remember telling me or recommending a book.

I think I was entirely left alone to do it. And also, I read books, really young books, when I was far too old, so I wasn't... I used to hide in the toilets at secondary school and read Enid Blyton. I reread Enid Blyton until I was 15 or 16, which I was far too old for. Which ones? Magic Faraway Tree?

Yes, because I wanted it to be real, and The Magic Wishing Chair. I heard Stuart Lee talking about talking about the magic faraway tree and i was doing my stuff i was surprised to hear him enthusing about it for me it was the lands it was just the different lands no it was a genius concept for the like pitch it to someone who's never read it explain the concept okay so um you have a normal life you're a child but uh in the school holidays you get to go and stay with an auntie and uncle and they basically give you a picnic and leave you to do what you want to in the daytime so that already is brilliant and you walk into a forest and it looks like a normal forest apart from there's one big tree it's not

like any other tree because there's silky and moonface and the saucepan man and mrs wishy-washy and they all live on the tree and when when you hear the whooshing sound, be careful, because that's the land changing. And some of them are very slippy and you have to get cushions or you're going to get hurt. Sometimes there's delicious cakes and food. Sometimes the land moves and you have to try and get your way back, usually with some kind of flying broomstick or magic spell.

It's incredible. This is an advert for Squarespace. Every time I visit your website, I see success. Yes, success. The way that you look at the world makes the world want to say yes. It looks very professional. I love browsing your videos and pics, and I don't want to stop And I'd like to access your members area and spend in your shop These are the kinds of comments people will say about your website if you build it with Squarespace

your website if you build it with Squarespace. Just visit squarespace.com slash Buxton for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, because you will want to launch, use the offer code Buxton to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. So put the smile of success on your face With Squarespace Yes. Sarah struggles with jealousy. Yeah. Is that true? Yeah, it's true. Is that still true?

Yeah. Well, when I got with my boyfriend, I'd never really been jealous of a boyfriend before, and I got really jealous of all the women in the world because he fancies all the women in the world because he's a guy because he's a guy I know I think previous boyfriends had hidden that from me

and have you had the conversation about like well you know I'm maybe looking at these people but it doesn't mean I want to do anything and yeah kind of I don't think it's a hard and fast gender rule i think there'll be couples who are being the exact inverse and i think that there's a real difference between people that we notice and people that yeah differences between how we feel and how we behave but like so for instance tinder which is a an app that's enabling

people who are single to meet up with each other sometimes leading to sexual behavior my boyfriend was in a relationship with me when that came out and that was a real like what that is bad timing this is not fair he cried himself to sleep this is not fair i've been single i don't believe it yeah yeah i've been single for all of this time and now suddenly my friends how long was he single for? I don't know. I mean, he's had relationships, but he hadn't had like a long-term serious one.

Right. And then suddenly all of his friends who were single were suddenly meeting up different girls every night. He was, no, this is not allowed. Because it used to be really difficult to approach somebody. But now there's this online... We've both ticked each other, so you don't have to walk up to a stranger in a park.

Do you know anyone who's had a successful, quote, successful relationship by using Tinder? People have definitely had short-term relationships. Yeah, but I mean... And I think people have had a lot of fun. Fun. But I think, I wonder, the chase bit, the thing like... A lot of fun.

Wait, define a lot of fun because all my memory this might be just me but my memory of any casual or semi-casual relationship was not fun no pain no embarrassment so that's what i i would say too and also i think for me i like i think my probably the favorite bit of the relationship is the being in love with them from afar but not when nothing's kind of happened but working with someone and fancying them for two years that chase that paying off that is a good feeling right so and you can't get that just from a picture that someone ticks and then you go out and have a drink with them have you ever ruined a relationship by being jealous not ruined relationships but i've been too jealous of

my friends uh professionally yeah oh okay yeah my friend, okay. Yeah, my friend Cariad and I, so we're best friends from university, and a couple of times stuff has happened which I've not handled very well. When she's got opportunities that you coveted? No, worse, things that I've already done. Oh, okay. So it's not even like, oh, I didn't get them,

just more like, and it's a really unattractive, really odd quality, and then it makes you look to yourself. You're just threatened by her being as good as you. Actually, I think why I worked out it was, so Carrie is younger than me and is just naturally brilliant. My sister Cheryl, who's 18 months younger than me, was always the talented one. So we both did amateur dramatics

and she was always told she could be a superstar. And I was told I cried too much. And my auntie Juliet, my mum's twin, took me aside. Like, Sarah, it's a really difficult career. And you're just not cut out for it. Whereas Cheryl was always the lead. Anyway, so I was very jealous of Cheryl growing up. So then sometimes with Cariad, I behave in the same way.

And it's awful. It's so unattractive. It's so nasty. But I feel like, not that I behave in a nasty way, but that it exists. Yes, the feelings you have. But I feel like acknowledging it now rather than pretending I'm not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's my mindfulness.

My mindfulness is to go like, oh, yeah, oh, I see. I've got a twinge. I sometimes... Sometimes, you know what? Like when someone tells you about a job and sometimes you just don't care at all. You're like, oh, cool. Or sometimes you're really pleased with them.

And other times I feel like, is my face looking weird? Because I'm finding it so hard to listen to their to their work things just like like physically suffering so now it's much easier to go like i'm so jealous of that that sounds amazing and that's it helps it's better for me yeah do you ever get jealous of people sure sure okay yeah uh it used to be a lot worse yeah i've been a lot happier really with my lot and more appreciative you know you get older and people start dying and you realize how short life yes uh have you ever had therapy no and i think i i think i think it's really i'm i've got i think a class issue i'm one of those people who cries all the time and then if someone goes you could go and see someone and work for this it's like no i won't because i'll sort it out myself i don't yeah i

guess you think well you think you're cleverer than everyone and also i'm just so scared of unraveling anything like when would be a good day do you have do you have you had therapy no no i thought about it yeah and there are times when you certainly think it would be fun to tell, to be able to express things to someone who isn't going to get hurt by it or upset by it or judge you or that kind of thing. But they still judge you. They can't help but judge you. Well, exactly.

That's the thing. Otherwise you could have talked to a wall, couldn't you? Yeah. Yeah. I talked to Rosie. Yeah. The dog. Yeah. But you know that she is judging you could have talked to a wall couldn't you yeah I talked to Rosie yeah the dog yep but you know that

she is judging you and she has a podcast I know she's judging me but I think she's judging me very positively yes certainly by the levels of enthusiasm

she displays when I get home yeah that's it back again for another session you're brilliant you know that stuff

that disgusting stuff you told me the other day? Hasn't put me off you in the slightest. Come on, Rosie. Come on. Let's head back. There we go. Thanks very much to Sarah Pascoe. Really enjoyed talking to her.

Hope she's going to come back again on the podcast sometime soon. And I've also been reading her book in the last few days since she gave it to me. I've been reading it with my eyes, no less, and enjoying it very much despite the fact that I am not a 15-year-old girl. But that could be one of the surprises that 2016 has yet to deliver. Let's hope we don't have too many more deaths, though. I mean, there will be deaths. That's just the way that life works, I think. But don't scoop up too many more of the fantastic people that we all really love and would rather were around for a lot longer. And speaking of Prince, this weekend some friends came to stay.

Old friends of my wife's. My wife's friends. And my friends. one of those friends said, hey, have you guys seen Prince playing the solo on While My Guitar Gently Weeps on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? No, none of us had. So we all gathered round and called it up on YouTube. And I wanted to recommend it to you in case you hadn't seen it. It really cheered us up. We were all feeling sad about Prince.

Sure enough, there they are, I think in 2004 at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It's one of those supergroup situations where usually what they do is they do quite a terrible version of a classic song. It's much the worse for all these brilliant individual talents being forced to perform together but it's not the case on this one it's actually kind of an excellent version and it's being performed by tom petty and steve winwood and jeff lynn and george harrison's son

danny i think his name is is there well. But towards the end of this pretty faithful rendition, Prince is suddenly in evidence and he starts tearing the roof off the place. It's magnificent, but it's like, on the one hand, it's total pyrotechnics, but it's not unnecessary guitar warbling, you know? It's completely in keeping with the spirit of the song. And, wow, it's really raining now. It's so great. It made me really happy to watch it and reminded me what an extraordinary person he was

and an extraordinary talent. And the look on George Harrison's son's face is great as well. When Prince is playing the solo and he's just grinning away with admiration and delight. It's really a wonderful piece of footage. So farewell.

Good night, sweet Prince. That's pretty much it for the podcast. Different outro music bed this week, you may have noticed. I composed this one. This is an original one. Well, it's retooled from a jingle you may have recognised. This is exciting stuff, isn't it? But this is probably the one I'm going to go with from now on, so I hope that's not a big problem.

And if it is, I would love it if you didn't let me know. Thanks. Thanks, too, to Matt Lamont, my co-editor this week, and to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for invaluable production support. And thank you very much indeed for downloading this and listening. I really hope you enjoyed it. Until next time, take care. I love you. Bye! Thank you.