THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.20 - IAIN LEE

Episode Date: May 27, 2016

Adam talks with 'edgy' (crap word, sorry) radio host Iain Lee about getting in trouble on air, our embarrassing behaviour on TV in the 90s, Twitter & depression (of course), the classic sitcom we starred in together, Monkees, Beach Boys and more. Check out Iain's show on TalkRADIO, 10pm weeknights. Thanks to Seamus Murphy-Mitchell for podcast production support and Matt Lamont for convo edit help. Music and jingles by Adam Buxton Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This podcast contains the very strongest of the language while we spoke. My name is Adam Buxton, I'm a man. I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan. Hey, how you doing, podcats? Welcome to episode number 20 of the Adam Buxton podcast. Sorry about the gap between this podcast and the last one. Had to take a few weeks off there. And that was because I've been doing some shows, doing some gigs. I was also in Lisbon in Portugal with Richard Ayoade doing his show Travelman. Managed to convince Richard to do a bit of podcasting while we were out there. So you'll hear the fruits of those labours at some point in the next few weeks.

Can't say exactly when. I've also been up north in Manchester this week, in Leeds. Hebden Bridge I was. Have you ever been to Hebden Bridge? It's beautiful. A little town in West Yorkshire. They shoot sections of a TV show called Happy Valley there. You've seen Happy Valley. I mean, it's the best TV show I've seen for years, I think. It's amazing. If you haven't seen Happy Valley, come on, get with the programme. Literally. bridge though it was lovely and sunny when i was there i did my tech at the venue the trades club wonderful venue if you ever get the chance to go and see a gig there it's a good scene and i took

a walk down along a little path by a river at the bottom of the valley and the sun was coming through the trees and oh it was idyllic i was expecting to bump into Frodo and Samwise Ganges. And I was looking out for Gollum, creeping around behind a rock, playing with his precious... Instead, I just passed a few arty-looking types, and we smiled and nodded, and I just thought, Wow, I think this might be the most beautiful place I've ever been in my life. Certainly one of them. It was amazing. And then I met someone after the gig and they said, yeah, it's all right when the sun's shining.

Not so good for the other 10 months of the year when it's pissing with rain. But anyway, I got lucky, caught it on a good day, and it seemed to me a wonderful, wonderful place. Today on the podcast, we have a conversation with Ian Lee. He's a male British man who has been at various points in his life, a stand-up comedian, an actor, an edgy television presenter, and he currently hosts a show every weeknight from 10pm on London's talk radio. every weeknight from 10pm on London's Talk Radio. I got to know Ian a little bit when we worked together on a legendary sitcom back in 2009,

which we talk about towards the end of the podcast, so I won't spoil the surprise by revealing all now. But I hadn't seen Ian for years, and it was really good to catch up. And he was very kind to me as well, because when I turned up at the offices of Absolute Radio a few hours before he was going to do his show, I realized I'd forgotten all my mics and everything, like a kind of a moron. Or rather, I'd brought my mics, but I hadn't brought all the stuff I need to plug them into my computer. Anyway, Ian sorted me out, and he and his lovely producer

went and found a little studio down next to all the sports guys by Talk Sport, I think that's right. And we were able just to record in a little studio there. So thanks, Ian. It was very nice of you. And it was really nice to see him again. A great pleasure to catch up. He's had his ups and downs in the intervening years since we've seen each other. And we talked about some of them fairly frankly. We also reminisced about the world of British youth TV in the 90s and considered our occasionally shameful place within it.

And we also touch on monkeys and beach boys. I love also touch on monkeys and beach boys. Mmm, I love to touch on monkeys and beach boys. It's a recipe for delicious waffle. So without further ado, here we go. We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that Come on, let's chew the vat and have a ramble chat Put on your conversation coat and find your talking hat La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la I'm here at the offices of Talk Radio where Ian works. He's going to be doing his show later on tonight. I'm going to appear on it, I think. Yes. And it's near Waterloo in London. I don't know if you've ever

been to London. Have you come to London just for this? Yeah. Wow. Can I say, it's such an honour to be in your podcast. I'm in your podcast. You can say that. It's not necessary. Well, okay. I'll retract it immediately then. It's disgusting. No, I'm so thrilled you asked me, because I've not seen you for how long ago did Michael

Jackson die? That's right. We were stood in Teddington Studios after the last taping of the legendary sitcom The Persuasionists. More of that later. More of that later on. But it's nice to be able to...

I've been listening to it. I've been enjoying your podcasts a lot. Thanks, Ben. You were asking me before when I came in why I do them. And it's an interesting question. I don't really... Well, I do them, I suppose because I've always liked

this medium, as do you, obviously. I like talking to people and it's fun to chat with people, but I do like the technical aspect of putting them together. You're quite geeky on it. And I say that in a respectful way. I really enjoy the jingles. You should do an album. I was thinking about it, but I don't think I can.

Can you do an album of jingles? Yeah, I think you can. The Ramones songs were like 90 seconds long, weren't they? Yeah, but they were quite good. But genuinely, you know, I was trying to sing one earlier and then couldn't remember any of the words, but Ramble Chat. Ramble Chat.

It always makes me chuckle. People like it. Well, that's very flattering. Thanks very much. Thank you. I'm quite uncomfortable about this. About being flattering? Yeah, it's not my fault.

Is it not? No, about doing this, I'm a little bit uncomfortable about it. Why? What do you think's going to happen? I fear that I've got nothing. Well. And I'm in awe of you. Yeah.

We can have this conversation. I'm slightly intimidated by you. What, because I'm so mean? Because I'm legendarily unkind. You've got Buxton coming in? Are you crazy? Haven't you heard? The guy's a loose cannon.

Have you seen him recently? He hasn't been on TV for a while for a reason. He's 24 stone. He's got a short fuse on him. He's very seldom off crack. And he will fucking kill you if you look at him wrong or say anything that he doesn't like about the jingles. He's very oversensitive.

This is why I'm being nice to you. No, it's partly because you remind me a lot of one of my best friends, Simon, in terms of looks and in terms of the way you speak. You've got a beard now. I've got a beard now. I've got a beard now. Yeah, we're similar. Your beard is great, though. I've still got little gaps here.

It's nice. It suits you. Yeah. I grew it because I had a breakdown. I had a proper breakdown last year, and I thought, I'm not going to... Whoa, we're getting into the breakdown in the first ten minutes. This is great. What happened to your breakdown? i'm not laughing out of disrespect

your breakdown i'm sorry to hear that man well i mean i would call it that my therapist called it that i don't i don't really know i um i've okay we'll have this conversation i've always struggled with depression quite a bit i didn't know that and i and i was gonna ask you yes in general about your temperament yes because i have this apart from the fact that i have very fond memories of working with you on the persuasion oh i had so much fun doing it it was really a laugh wasn't it yeah but i do remember one afternoon in the pub garden sunny afternoon do you remember this yes i do the box and it was uh suddenly it's like where's ian we've you know ian's off over in a corner oh he's on a foot he's on the phone

yeah there you were in the corner of the pub garden having a conversation, which suddenly starts getting like, I was like, whoa, he's really intensely in this conversation. And I was like, hang on a second. He's getting angry. He's losing his rag. And I was like, hey, check it out. Ian's getting angry.

But that was the very beginning of you getting angry. You, that was around about three on the Richter scale and you went up to about 25. That guy was an arsehole I was leaving. And you started screaming and shouting. You were absolutely losing it. What was it about? It was about, I was

getting a really big cardboard box built for a show that I was going to do and I wanted someone to hide in this box for the whole show and then at the end, it was originally going to be Mackenzie Crook was going to be in the box. Okay, a live show this is. A live show.

And I would say, I've got Gareth from The Office in this box, give me a quid, you can come and have a look. It's an old Andy Kaufman thing that I'd nicked. In the end we didn't do that, but I had someone hiding in the box. And I had to go to a bespoke cardboard box manufacturer and I spoke to this guy and he was all very, very nice. Yeah, I can make that, not a problem.

We'll have it done for you in a week, right? And I think when I was on the phone, that was like about four or five weeks after the initial week and he was a liar. He would do this thing. Let's say his name was James. I don't remember what his name was

and I would phone up and say he would answer the phone i say hello can i speak to james who's calling please it's ian oh no james isn't in and i go i go but it's and it's definitely him i guess you he said no no my name's dave and he would lie and then i don't know if it was that day but there was another day i spoke to sometimes a woman would answer the phone and uh and i to her, look, I'm really sorry if I've been rude to you. I'm so frustrated by this. This box is integral. It's an integral box.

And this guy's really let me down. And she started crying. Oh, no. And she said, this place is horrible to work in. The guy's a real bully. And I said, oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. And I felt terrible for this woman yeah I said I'm sorry if I've caused you any stress he said no no it's not you it's

just he's just such a bully and I said you know you don't have to take that you don't have to work in that environment she says but I there's nothing else I can do and it was a heartbreaking moment and I think I'd had that conversation with her before I'd had the argument with him and that's why I was right but now there may have been a little bit of theatre in it as well, knowing that you cool guys were watching. Yeah. I think there was some theatre in it. I did, that's a remnant of, I did used to get, it was my temper a lot,

I did used to get very angry. Right. Kind of prior to that. But I had no idea that you were struggling with depression or that you did struggle with depression. Yeah. I wish I'd known. Well, it wouldn't have done anything these things are always better when talked about aren't they or are they not i talk about it on the radio a bit and and it's kind of nice in that that encourages people to call in it's not a miserable show but someone might call in to talk about um

last night we were talking about um medical procedures that are actually quite pleasant to have. Yeah. And so someone might call in about something like that and then go, oh, by the way, I'm having a really tough time with getting out of bed every day and I feel a bit suicidal, you know. And it's kind of nice that that's coming out more in the open, I think, generally.

Are you able to respond usefully to that kind of thing? What do you do when someone says that to you? I share my experience with it that's all I can do you know and I kind of I don't tell them what to do because I don't know what to do but I tell them what has helped me in the past

and you know I think identification is kind of a big deal. The thing is, it's weird. So I suffer from depression, OK? People suffer from depression, but they look all right. And generally, you wouldn't know. Generally, you wouldn't know that yesterday I couldn't get out of bed,

and that to get out of bed today at 12 o'clock was a real effort to kind of, you know, I've got stuff to do, I've got to get up and got to get out. And we kind of pretend. We're really good at pretending everything's OK. And I'll go and do a show in a few hours and it will be, hey, guys. Yeah, yeah. You know.

And it comes and goes. But last year, I was kind of at a very low point. And then I lost a job. I got very fairly untreated. Untreated. Unfairly treated. You got very fairly. And I think you were right the first time. You were very fairly untreated. Untreated. Unfairly treated. You got very fairly. And I think you were right the first time.

You were very fairly untreated. I was mistreated by the BBC. And I lost the job in a horrific way. That was towards the end of last year. Yeah, that was November the 13th. And you called out a homophobe on your radio show. Yeah. And they canned you.

Yeah, it was a story about this... The Reverend Barry Trehorn was his name. He was a story about this the Reverend Barry Trahorn was his name. He was a born again Christian. He was working as a gardener in a prison for sex offenders. And he would occasionally he would kind of preach to these sex offenders and he

got suspended for preaching that gays will go to hell. So we had him on the show and we had his lawyer from a group called Christian Concern that are a very right-wing Christian organisation. And she really annoyed me. The solicitor really annoyed me with her. I don't hate gays, Ian. I love them.

That's why I want to save them from eternal damnation. And I called her out and I did lose my temper with her and I called her a bigot and I called her a homophobe. And I said what she was saying was disgusting. And I said that I have gay friends and that we will have people of all, you know, sexualities and sexual leanings listening to the show of different. My thought at the time was, what if we've got like a 14 yearyear-old girl or a 16-year-old boy who's really confused about what they are, and then they're hearing this woman say really hateful stuff. And particularly if this young person is coming from a Christian background, and they're hearing this hateful stuff. But to take the BBC's side, for the sake of argument, there were ways that you could have expressed or implied disapproval

without calling her out so explicitly or so in such a partisan way. Yeah I could have played it differently we had balance, we had a lesbian priest and by the way that's not to say that I don't 100% agree with you and totally sympathise with you losing your temper as I think the BBC should have sympathised

but still i guess that's what they would have said is like well we've got yeah you know if if all our presenters just lost their rag when they were talking to a twat yes then it would not it wouldn't be a workable situation it was it was lack of impartiality right but it broke my heart it broke my heart and i was devastated oh man devastated that how it was, about the way it was done. Because you hadn't screwed up before, had you? Or were you on, like, three strikes or something? No.

No. There were a couple of Ofcom investigations, which the BBC then used that. Well, there were three Ofcom investigations. But they were never upheld. Had you... For what? Losing your temper or swearing?

Oh, I don't know what they were for. But you know an Ofcom, for those who don't know, Ofcom is the body that regulates broadcasting. And anyone can make an Ofcom complaint. I could phone up now and say, well, Jeremy Vine today was... Don't tell them that. But it doesn't mean anything. Yeah. Unless it's upheld.

And I've never, as far as I'm aware, I've never had an Ofcom upheld. It's just people don't like me. You know, It's just people don't like me. And people that don't like me really dislike me. What do you think it is that winds people up when people are wound up by you? Because I've always found you a thoroughly likeable guy. I mean, before I got to know you, I must say I had a different impression of what you were like. Yeah.

And when we worked together, I was like, oh, I was wrong about i was like i thought you were 11 o'clock show guy yeah i thought you were mr wind up mr snidey yeah cynical probably talking shit about me behind my back type i was doing that of course all the time me and jared were constantly slagging you off i knew it but do you know what i mean Like, I guess it was all from the 11 o'clock show. Yeah. And that's been, I love the 11 o'clock show. I'm so proud of it. For those people who are too young to remember it,

when was it and what was it? 1999. Yeah, on Channel 4. Channel 4, a thrice weekly topical comedy show, 11 o'clock at night. It was never on 11 o'clock. It was normally five, two or five past. And it was my first job on telly.

I went from signing on and being massively in debt to suddenly earning, you know, a lot of money hosting this show. And it was, I mean, who was on there? Daisy Donovan was on there. Ricky Gervais. Sasha Baron-Cohen. Mackenzie Crook. Paul Garner.

Alex Lowe. Charlie Brooker wrote for it. Jimmy Carr, I think, wrote for it. He was certainly the warm-up man in the studio. So there was all these, you know... It was like year zero for a lot of big comedy talents. But it was a curiously dislikable show a lot of the time. And me that was hosting it, that wasn't me.

No. That was kind of... I always think it's a slight cop-out when comedians say, well, it's a character when I'm on stage. When you're on stage... But it was kind of, and I always think it's a slight cop-out when comedians say, well, it's a character when I'm on stage. When you're on stage, if you... But it was kind of, I was 25, I didn't have a clue what I was doing, and I did what I was told, and they basically wanted me to be a cheap Chris Morris kind of clone, you know, with those kind of inflections and that kind of stuff.

And this isn't me distancing or dismissing anything I did, because I stand by pretty much everything I did on that show. But the stuff in the studio, i was told what to do i was an actor you know being directed in how to deliver stuff and if there was a line daisy was really good at saying i don't want to do that that's i don't like that and i would get those lines so i would quite often get the more offensive stuff to do and i was i was lapping up i was enjoying it but that wasn't me the stuff on the streets was more me and it was a show i mean it was a show that made a name for itself by being very edgy i suppose was the word that people tossed around and yeah i mean one

thing that's one of the things that springs to mind i shadow when i think of it was we had um a counter going off um and it was the the harold shipman murder count as the show was going on it was just kept ticking over as you know and there was a nasty tone to it that um a lot of people think that that is what i am like and also in stuff i did after that i then pursued that more because i kind of thought this is my i hadn't discovered my voice yet. Right. You know, the voice. We're talking about discovering our voice. Sure. Or to put it more simply,

I didn't know who or what I was. Right. Really. And so I had this image kind of thrust on me, which I took gladly. Mm-hmm. But I'm not like that in real life. No.

And you're not like that on the radio. The thing is, on the radio... Yeah. ...you do a lot of stuff which is kind of terrifying for most people you take calls live to air oh yeah that's fun and um so you get a lot of people who are out to wind you up yeah and you have to deal with that and then you get a lot of people who are kind of crazy or unpredictable or maybe a bit pissed or who knows what. And that would put most normal people in a state of permanent anxiety.

I used to get wound up by it. I was at LBC, when did I leave there? About eight years ago, eight, nine years ago, and I was taking calls straight to air then. Basically what it means is, normally when you phone a radio station, you'll speak to the producer, they'll ask you who you are, what you want to talk about, and then they'll call you back. And I would just touch the screen and go, line two, you're on the air.

And generally not know who it was, although this phone system kind of gives you a few clues sometimes. And I did used to get wound up then, and I would come away from the show, or I've lost my temper on the air several times back then, and I would carry it home with me, and I would be angry, and I would be upset, and I would... All this tension because of these fucking arseholes that are phoning up.

Yeah, because as soon as they get put through, a good percentage of them, they go, you fucking prick! Here, Lee, you fucking wanker! But those I find... I don't get those anymore. You know we've got a seven-second delay? Right.

So that means that if someone swears, I can dump it and it doesn't go on the air. And they don't have that at the BBC, but we had it there my favourite one was was it LBC we were doing a show that was just going spectacularly badly it wasn't working so we started taking some calls

straight to air and this bloke went Ian you are a cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt and I dumped it I'm really disappointed because I wanted this to be one of those ones where you didn't have to do a swear I do the swear warning before all of them I think people who don't like swearing understand that it's not really the podcast for them

and I dumped it and then a few minutes later people started phoning and we heard that go out and the dump system hadn't worked it had gone out I think on FM but it had been dumped on digital or something but the call straight to air that's when it's fun for me that's when it's like now now it's just go in turn the microphones on and see

what happens in the first 10 minutes and see what conversation comes up between me and you get some great moments i mean i uh the classic is um the fellow who you were talking to about getting wound up while you're driving and people flashing their lights behind you when you're... Oh, Geoff. Do you drive, Geoff? Geoff was great. Geoff, this was at the BBC and it was a local radio show and, because I couldn't get a

job anywhere else, you know, if I'm completely honest. I left Absolute and I couldn't get a job and they offered me the gig and I was like, yeah, sure, fine. And the thing I enjoyed about that show is it was like doing two shows at once I was doing kind of a straight local breakfast show but underneath it I was freestyling and it meant we could have fun and it was I don't think it wasn't it wasn't malicious what we were doing with the callers but we could have we could kind of have fun like a

little wink to the camera say look guys look what's going on here um but it was never nasty but yeah Jeff was we were talking about people over the age of 67 should have to do a driving test every two years or something. And he phoned up to say that he's only ever had one accident or something and he's a very careful driver. And I wanted to ask him the question, Jeff, do you drive slowly? That was the question. Do you drive slowly?

And he wouldn't let me finish the question. Jeff, Jeff, let's be honest. Do you drive?? That's the question. Do you drive slowly? And he wouldn't let me finish the question. Geoff, Geoff, let's be honest. Do you drive? Yes, I do. No, hang on. Let me finish. Do you drive? Yes.

No, let me finish. Yeah. Do you drive? Yes, and when I go through the village, they push me along to go faster. Okay, let me finish. Geoff, do you drive? Yes, I do. Hang on. Geoff? Mm- Jeff, do you drive? Yes, I do. Hang on. Jeff,

do you drive? Yes, I do. I know. Hang on. I'm going to get there. Yeah. Jeff. Yeah. Do you drive? Yes, only certain journeys. Yeah, because I'm 80 years old. Good for you. Well done, fella. But Jeff. Yeah. Do you drive? Yes, I do. I know.

There's more coming. But, Geoff. Yeah? Do you drive? Yes, I do. I know. There's more coming. Yeah. Geoff. Yeah. Do you drive? Yes, I do. I know you do. Yes, and I've only had one accident in all my time. Well, I hope you're alright. But, Geoff. Yeah. Do you drive? Yeah. No, hang on. Hang on.

Do you drive? Yes. I know you do. Yeah. There's more coming. Yeah. Do you drive? Yes. I know you do. Yeah. There's more coming. Yeah. Do you drive? Yeah. There's one pause where it's too long. Every time I listen to you, I think,

oh, that pause is too long, that sounds fake. But the rest is, Jeff, do you drive? And then he would come in, yes, I do, I do drive. And it's fun, and I love it. I love the radio, And I've sort of given up on TV. What's your relationship with TV? Yeah, I'm in the same place. I think the problem is, I mean, we started talking about this a little bit because we were talking about depression and we were talking about anxiety

and those kinds of things. And I would imagine that a lot of that is bound up with the way you perceive yourself, your own self image and how you think of yourself and your impression of how other people think of you as well. And those things shouldn't matter as much as they do, but they do, you know,

and being on TV has the effect of magnifying that out of all proportion. But I, I mean, I spent so long chasing TV work. Yeah. And I was so many meetings with young bucks that would say, I've got exactly the thing to get you back on the TV, don't you? And I would invest so much excitement and optimism into this.

And it never came about. You know, so many times I've had that. I don't that i don't i don't care about tv no i mean it's it's but i cared about it for a long time yeah but now i don't care about it well no i mean surely you're doing what you like doing and what you're good at right and people love it i found go back to the song i found my voice my voice is doing late night radio show where it's kind of a little bit free and it's a little bit easy. And I'm allowed to kind of play around and stuff. Yeah.

And improvise. But then are things getting better for you as far as your mental state? My head. Because, you know, I was kind of hinting at the fact that maybe you, and certainly early on in your career, maybe you were doing a lot of things that weren't helpful for someone who was worried about those kinds of things, you know? Oh, yeah, definitely. Well, no, I'm having a tough time. I'm really struggling with Twitter at the moment.

Mate, you should fucking get off Twitter. Tell me about it. If you are getting wound up and you're anxious about that kind of thing. I mean, I talk about it a lot on this podcast, but often on Twitter, especially, it's a totally unwinnable game. You don't get any kind of satisfactory resolution when there's a misunderstanding or a disagreement. And you come out of it feeling really wound up and hurt and angry and misunderstood and full of self-loathing. wound up and hurt and angry and misunderstood and full of self-loathing. Yeah.

Because you feel you've been harshly judged, but you worry that maybe you've been accurately judged. Yeah. And all these floods of unhelpful feelings come in. It is. But if I wasn't doing this career, I would get rid of Twitter. But Twitter's a really good tool for selling stuff, for selling, you know, the show and stuff. I don't know. Well, it is, I think here, because this is a brand new radio station.

Yeah. And, you know, so you're building an audience from nothing. So for me to say to 47,000 people, I'm on tonight at 10 o'clock and I've got Adam Buxton on. Yeah. Some of those people will listen. But if you weren't on Twitter, I just don't believe that it would really materially affect the way that your show went. I'm going to bear that in mind.

Thank you for that. I just don't believe it. No. I really don't. No. I mean, I'm sure it's different if you're sort of a pop star or maybe if you're younger. I don't know.

Well, that's rude. But I often say at gigs, raise your hand if you're here because I tweeted about know. Well, that's rude. But I often say at gigs, raise your hand if you're here, because I tweeted about this. Two, three hands go up. But those three people, though, what? They're amazing. They're loud laughers. I mean, they are amazing.

They're the best chaps in the audience. I just think it's a mirage to a large degree. You know, with the internet on a larger scale, film companies are beginning to realise this. I think there was a period where they thought buzz, online buzz about a film that was coming out was going to be indicative of how that film would then perform. And it's not the case.

It does not translate into, you know, you can have a frenzy of excitement about a film and it may well just tank when it comes out. It'll be interesting to see how Ghostbusters does. That might be different. I don't know. Well, I'm not, but I know this is the all-female Ghostbusters. Yeah.

There have been people of... This is Paul Feig who directed Bridesmaids, which is a very funny film. And, you know, he's a pretty funny director. But he got it in his head that it would be a good thing to do a remake of Ghostbusters with an all-female cast. And it was sort of presented to the world as a slightly feminist statement. Okay.

And it just wound people up. It wound all the sort of knee-jerk meninists, the anti-feminists, all this, who didn't want to be told how to think about women and all. It just seemed like a wrong-headed approach to this whole project. Why remake a film that was fine in the first place anyway, and even worse, use it as a vehicle for this slightly wonky feminist agenda? Yeah. It seemed all a bit weird and wonky. And there's been a huge backlash. And there's been like the biggest backlash online ever with people making videos, like thousands and thousands of people

making reaction videos on YouTube, watching the trailer and then delivering monologues for 10 minutes afterwards about everything that's wrong with it and how insulting it is and how shit it is and how, you know, and feminists sort of saying this is the wrong way to approach it we wouldn't be hunting ghosts why would why would we do that guys we are afraid of ghosts yes um and you know and and and then on the other side all the twatish meninists yeah

saying uh the feminists, they're ruining everything. Yeah. And it's just non-stop negativity. I'll wait till it's on ITV. I think, as I tend to do with films these days. I tend to do that. I wait till they're on the telly. I made the terrible mistake of going to see the Dad's Army film.

Why did you do that? Did you know someone in it? No, no, no. I had two hours to kill kill and i was stood by a cinema i thought oh i've got two hours i killed the living shit out of them yeah and it was the only thing that was it was literally starting then i thought i'll go and i don't really like the tv series dad's army either so and i went and sat and it was just an hour and a half of of non-stop silence you know there were no chuckles it was a packed cinema and it was

silence it's yeah that was a strange project, but it's got like the best cast of all time. It looked amazing. I mean, it's got Bill Nye and Toby... Stevens Jones? Toby Jones. Is that the guy? The guy that's in the Detectorists with Mackenzie? Oh, yeah. I think it's

Jones, isn't it? I think so. I think he's brilliant anyway, even though I can't remember his last name correctly. Toby. Tob's amazing. Even though I can't remember his last name correctly. Toby. Toby. I just can't remember his name. Tobles. Toblerones.

He's, I think he's a brilliant actor. I love him. I think he's very good. But it was a stinker of a film, unfortunately. Yeah, that's a shame. Had very positive buzz online.

I have no idea. Do you go break? It's a break from the podcast In between the next bit And the victim was last Every now and then You have to take a little rest Otherwise you're going to get Tired and depressed No idea. moving out in space. Think about the wonder on the little baby's face. Now think of Stevie Wonder's face on the baby's face.

Now stop thinking completely because you're ready for the next part of the podcast. Here it is. The first time I met you, do you remember the first time I met you? Oh yeah, it was I think it was at a Channel 4 so-called, it was like a new season launch party. Yeah, yeah, it was I think it was at a Channel 4 so called, it was like a new

season launch party. Yeah, yeah, it was like in the afternoon and it was, we were the hot young things. I think you'd already had a series. I think we had. So you're about your second series. Yeah, I've got a photograph at home of me grinning away, clean shaven. I was, I

remember exactly what I was wearing. I was wearing this suede, a very light-coloured suede jacket that I'd bought. Yeah. And I forgot that I'm quite a sweaty little man. And I immediately created two giant, very dark sweat patches, rendering this jacket unusable thereafter

because it left sort of tide marks. Wow. And also smelled pretty badly. So I was there, stinky little man, trying to hide my sweat patches. Very smelly. And there you were towering above me. Yes.

And there was Mel and Sue either side of us. They were doing light lunch. Mel and Sue was there. I think Mackenzie was there. I think Mackenzie was in the 11 o'clock show. Right. Were you there for the 11 o'clock show? We were there for the 11 o'clock show. Right. Were you there for the 11 o'clock show? We were there for the 11 o'clock show, yeah.

I remember seeing you and feeling... Sexually excited. There was no sexual arousal then at all, I'm afraid. That's not really been a thing between us, I'm afraid. It's not too late. But, well, let's see what happens after this. But, yeah, I'm thinking, wow, it's Adam and Joe. Wow, those guys are, like, cool.

This is it, man. This is it. And I also remember, do you remember the Cure Awards that I hosted? Oh, I mean, I remember a couple of Cure Awards. I hosted the Cure Awards once. And you were there and you came up and you presented an award. I was probably drunk out of my mind. With a League of Gentlemen there. I don't remember. I was pissed. And I was totally out of my mind were the League of Gentlemen there?

I don't remember, I was pissed and I was totally out of my depth it was about 12 years ago because those audiences were very leery they were leery and again I still didn't know what I was, this is when I was presenting Rise the breakfast show on Channel 4 that replaced The Big Breakfast and I still didn't know what I was and I was being paid

you pronounce it Rise, I thought it was R And I was being paid. You pronounce it rise. I thought it was re-se. Because of the colon. No, that represented a digital alarm clock. It was fun with words. Fun with word. R-I colon S-E was how the show was written. Because it was like a digital alarm clock.

And I got paid for that night, for hosting that. I got paid £10,000. Quite right. You should have got more. Wow. And I bought a £250 pair of shoes to host it. I thought, I'm going to pay £10,000. Yeah. And I was, I mean, I was steaming drunk probably.

Terrifying. I don't know how you... It was awful. And the thing is as well, I wasn't confident enough. What I should have done, they sent me a script, as I should have got with some of my writing friends, and terrifying i don't know it was awful and the thing is as well i wasn't confident enough what i should have done they sent me a script as i should have got with some of my writing friends said right let's let's not listen to a good script and i didn't i just read this hoary old script that they gave me and it was awful and it was one of those moments where i've never felt part of

what i don't want to say show business because that sounds wanky. I've never felt part of, I've always felt separate from my peers or from other people. Sweetie, we all feel like that. Well, do you? Do you? Of course. But you, but okay. Darling, everybody feels like that. But you're loved

though. And all the people you've had in the podcast, most of them are your friends aren't they yeah i mean i haven't had a huge number of different people on the point i've had i've had louis on twice and he's going to be on again garth on twice and he's going to be on a joe on twice um and then other people that i've met at gigs who are nice but i don't know anybody yes i know mckenzie yeah well that's what you need and and that's it. You know, I always felt so... I felt like a fraud throughout that whole 11 o'clock show rise kind of period.

Did you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. So you don't have fond memories of that time? I don't really have fond memories of... I have fond memories of making the show with Joe in the 90s. Yeah. Actually doing it. The 90s. The 90 it. The 90s.

The 90s. The 90s to me in my head is still really recent. And then you go, no, there were 16, 17, 18 years ago. It was a long time ago. It was a weird, weird, different world. Did you watch that show? There was a show, I think, on Sky all about the 90s. And it just looked such a weird place, the 90s.

It was all extreme. It was all lad culture. Yeah. People trying to, like, be freaky and outrageous. Ian Lee on the 11 o'clock show. God, what a toss-up. Doing Harold Shipman jokes. Yeah.

People eating baked beans out of old ladies' buttocks and I don't know what. And then the rest of it was all, like, football and page three birds and it's, yeah, good fun and cocaine and blur versus Oasis. And I was just like, fuck this. But the Adam and Joe show, which was delightful, was delightful. It was like a little Oasis of homemade charm. But it was charming.

Well, that's nice of you. And funny. Yeah, sometimes. Well. Some of it was charming. Well, that's nice of you. And funny. Yeah, sometimes. Well. Some of it was, you know. There was one nasty bit I remember. Occasionally we were. The bit in the shop where you smashed everything up.

Oh, that was terrible. What did you do that for? What did we do that? I tell you why we did that. It was Louis Theroux's fault. Oh, what a bastard. Louis was responsible for one of the most popular things we did on the show. We did little stunty bits every now and again.

And he said, oh, you should do a thing where you go up and you take all the free bits. You go into the supermarket and it says 20% free, so you just take the 20% and you don't pay for it. And then when the guy comes up to you and says, what are you doing? You say, oh, but it says it's free. I'm just taking the free bit. And it was funny. I mean, you could barely see what was going on because my hand was shaking so badly. I was filming it.

I hate stunts. Oh, it was awful. And then we said, right, everyone likes this thing. We've got to do more. We've got to think of another thing because people like that. We rang Louis up and said, think of another thing, man. He said, OK, what about you break it, you pay for it? We were like, what's that?

He said, well, you know, some shops have signs where it says, you break it, you buy it, or you break it, you pay for it. Especially China shops, that kind of thing. If you knock something over by accident, you have to pay for it. So you go in and you deliberately smash stuff up and you say, it's OK, we're going to pay for it so you go in and you deliberately smash stuff up and you say it's okay we're gonna pay for it yeah so we did it in this little china shop in in the cut in south london and we'd in a similar way that we had with the uh 20 free thing we'd okayed it with the owner of the shop right so we weren't it was okay okay okay but the shop assistant didn't know. Right, right. And in the supermarket in Brixton,

they were all young blokes that were shop assistants there, and they were, you know, they just thought we were dicks, and they came and confronted us, and it was all fine. But in the china shop was quite an old lady. Yeah. And she, of course, got totally freaked out when these two fucking twats came in and started

smashing stuff up with hammers and we I mean we'd been sitting in the pub beforehand trying to psych ourselves up into doing it and I remember Joe I've got a bit of footage still of Joe saying why are we doing this again this is bad I don't like doing

this we've got to do it. We've got three and a half minutes to fill. Okay, here we go. So in we go. And she gets totally freaked out and says, please stop doing that. What are you doing? Please stop doing that. And she calls the cops. And the cops turn up.

And we just had to say, it's okay. We've cleared it with the owner. It's fine. And the cops are like, oh, you's OK. We've cleared it with the owner. It's fine. The cops were like, oh, you fucking brats. Oh, God. And the old lady's upset. And we're like, oh, we cleared it with the owner. And I think we wanted not to use it because it was so grim.

But we literally had a gap in the show. We had to use it. We ran out of time to think of something else. And we convinced ourselves... Channel 4 would have loved that as well. Yeah, we convinced ourselves it was sort of edgy and... You know, and we apologised profusely to the lady

and did everything we could to make her happy in the end. And the owner came out and he was like, gave her a cuddle and said oh, it's okay. And in the end, yeah, she got a free cuddle. She got sexually harassed after you smashed up the shop she was working in that's great that's the 90s that's the 90s we all had some charlie and went to a football match um but it was it left such a bad taste in the mouth and so yeah we were really we felt really bad about it and and i think we we felt like we would never do that kind of thing again.

Yeah. The thing I've found as I've got older, in the 11 o'clock show, we did meme tricks. My favourite things were the tricks that were charming. I remember one, going out on the street, there was a story about people would be offered health checks at work or something. I don't know what it was. And I was out being filmed, secretly filmed. I hated the secret film stuff. Hated it.

But I had a white coat and a stethoscope and I'd go up to people and offer to weigh them. And they'd go, yeah, sure. And I'd just go behind and lift them up. You're about 12 stone three. And they'd go, okay, thanks very much. And stuff like that was charming. But yes, there were some mean-spirited gags in there. I remember one where, I mean, this is, I guess, on the borderline,

but I didn't like it at the time. There was one where Daisy, I think, went up to MPs on Parliament Square and thrust a microphone in their face that had a dog shit on the end of it. No. So she didn't actually make contact with their faces, but she put it beneath them.

On the 11 o'clock show? Yeah. That never happened. I'm pretty sure. That never happened. I'm pretty sure. That never happened. I'm almost certain. You have made up a story in your mind that we'd put shit on microphones. I've given the next generation of edgy programmers an idea for their first show.

I don't remember that ever happening. I think it did. And I remember thinking, is that good? Like a real shit? Yeah. No, I don't believe that. I'm going to... I'll Google it.

I'll Bing it and find out. I don't believe that. That was Daisy, terrible behaviour. But also there was just always a sense that it was all being done for questionable reasons. I mean, all that stuff kind of sprang from the Dennis Pennis. You remember the Dennis Pennis was like I mean, all that stuff kind of sprang from the Dennis Pennis. Remember, Dennis Pennis was like the thing. And that kind of,

I never found Dennis Pennis particularly funny. He had his moments. Really, I never really, I mean, he's Paul Kay, wasn't it? And I've met him since, and he's a thoroughly decent chap. Yeah, he's very, and he's a good actor.

Yeah, he's brilliant. Yeah. But a lot of that pranking kind of came from him. I've heard him talking about those days and saying that he only got through them by taking vast amounts of speed. Right, yeah.

To get himself in. Oh, it's so stressful. I used to hate doing the Vox Pops on the street. And I knew that for two hours of intense anxiety and fear and being incredibly uncomfortable, they would get a really funny three minute film after it but the thought of going up to people and misleading them and lying to them to make them look silly oh i used to it's no good man because it's obviously the point of it is that you're screwing around with societal conventions.

I remember the point I was going to make earlier. It's getting older. I couldn't do any of the stuff that we did on The 11 O'Clock Show now. I couldn't do it at all because I'm a dad. I'm married. I've got a disabled mum. I feel more... Protective. More protective and I feel more responsible for my actions than I did when I was 25 years old.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And you just want, the older you get, the more you learn the value of treating people well and how nice it is to be treated well. You know, when people are nice to you, it's fucking brilliant. Like when people are, when strangers are randomly kind or help you out in whatever way it's like uh the best day ever right let's go again what don't you fucking understand kick your fucking ass let's go again what the fuck is it with you i want you off the fucking set you prick no you're a nice guy the fuck are you doing no don't shut me up no no like this no no don't shut me up

like this fuck sake man you're amateur seriously man you and, we're fucking done, professional. This is an advert for Squarespace. Every time I visit your website, I see success. Yes, success. The way that you look at the world makes the world want to say yes. It looks very professional. I love browsing your videos and pics and I don't want to stop And I'd like to access your members area and spend in your shop These are the kinds of comments people will say about your website if you build it with Squarespace

your website if you build it with Squarespace. Just visit squarespace.com slash Buxton for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, because you will want to launch, use the offer code Buxton to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. So put the smile of success on your face with Squarespace. Yes. You, I, how do you deal with people complimenting you? Uh, uh. Oh, hey, Adam, nice to see you. Is that a compliment?

No, I was getting to it. Oh, okay. I'm workshopping it. We're workshopping it. Hey, Adam. Hey, man, how you doing? I was getting to it. Oh, OK. I'm workshopping it. We're workshopping it. Hey, Adam. Hey, man. How are you doing? I'm a big fan.

Oh, thanks. I came and saw you do your bug show last September. Ah, good one. And I just say I think you're brilliant and you're really important and what you do is great. And I just think you're the best. That's great. Listen, I've got ten minutes before I'm due at this meeting. Do you want to just come to this place I know? Why are you touching me? Hey, Adam, no!

Whoa, whoa, hey, come on, don't shout. I always prefer Joe anyway. All right, now you've gone weird. Yeah, see, so that's how you do it. That's generally how I do it. Old school, 70s style. No, I like it. it I mean it doesn't it doesn't happen

very often so I I like it very seldom have people been really weird with me or annoying

yeah does it happen to you no I've just the reason I ask is I'm not very good at taking compliments and I just did

like my first ever live tour last year it's a tour it's like 15 dates I did a solo show. 90 minute show called Ian Lee vs Radio.

And it's me talking about working in radio and why I love it. And I would, you know, punctuate it with clips of radio going wrong. Brilliant. Have you heard Nicky Campbell talking about the North Kent hunt? Talking about fox

hunting? No. Oh, it's's so funny man, it's on YouTube and it's brilliant and of course he gets the words wrong and he ends up on breakfast radio saying cunt and the guest comes on and is pissing herself and he goes I'm really sorry and then it cuts to him an hour later and he says

I just again I have to apologise I can't believe earlier on when i said cunt i mean and he does it again he does it again and it's just a joy and there are hundreds of those kind of clips of people doing that and so i did i did this show this 90 minute show i did it i did it for three reasons i did it to see if i could put a show together because i've never done a solo show yeah did it to see if i'd enjoy it and i did did it to see if people would come. I could put a show together. People did come, and I didn't enjoy doing it. I found it just really stress-inducing. And then afterwards, as I imagine you perhaps do,

is I would stick around, and if people wanted to have pictures and wanted to, you know, whatever, I would stick around and answer questions and stuff like that. And I just found it very weird, people coming up and saying nice things. I was waiting for the, but you're an arsehole. You know, I was waiting for the kind of the sucker punch to come after it. Oh, if you wait long enough, you'll get that.

It will come with it. No, I think, I don't like the idea of you being unhappy and struggling. Are you managing it, though? Do you feel, I'm talking about your mental state. Yeah, I'm on pills and I see a man once a week. We sit and we have a little chitty chat. I don't drink or take drugs or any of that stuff anymore. That's like 12 years.

I've not had a drink for 12 years. And I'm all right. I mean, I'm functioning. Over Christmas and in the new year when I wasn't working, yeah, it was bleak, man. It was bleak. I couldn't get out of bed for days. How do your family deal with all of that?

It must be very difficult for them. Yes, it is difficult for them. Yeah, it is difficult for them. But they kind of let me get on with it, which is all you can do, really, I think. They let me get on with it. But, you know, I phoned the Samaritans a couple of times just because I felt so fucking lonely you just want to have someone independent

just someone there just someone independent who doesn't know who I am and you know and I do you mentioned this earlier on I think

I do hate myself you know self-hatred and self-loathing and low self-esteem and all that stuff is quite prevalent and so you know

yes I've you know but now I have a guy that I see once a week. I have friends that I can call if I'm feeling particularly low. You know, I get by, but it's painful. The weird thing about depression is... It's like a physical... It's a physical thing.

Absolutely. Well, Rob Delaney talks about being in agonising pain. Yeah. And... For me, it's not so much a pain, although it does manifest itself in migraines. It's a physical knot in the stomach, and it's a weight. It's like a weight.

It's like I'm carrying this really heavy kind of blanket or something, and it's literally, if I'm lying down, I cannot, you know, it would take me five hours to sit up in bed, you know, with the effort. But listen, well, listen, man. Open the giggle factory.

Let's find the keys to the chuckle palace again. Let's turn on the laughter machine. You can call me. Give me a call. But I don't know you. Yeah, but so that's better, isn't it? But I don't know you. I've sometimes thought when I feel really black about things, and everyone does, whether they suffer from depression or not,

whether they're being treated for it or not, you know, there are times when the shutters come down and where you do feel that heaviness. And I've wished that there were people I could call and it wouldn't have any kind of pushback. You know what I mean? Like it wouldn't interfere with relationships that I have or they wouldn't judge me or they wouldn't do this or that.

But imagine though, right, so you go home and you go back to your life and then three weeks later I phone you up and I'm in tears and I'm going, Adam, I seriously, you know, I can't, I just don't see the point. And, you know, we'd have a chat and I'm sure you'd be delightful. And then you put the phone down and you go, that was the weirdest. That was Ian Lee. Remember, I was talking and he was feeling a bit down.

And I said, you know, kind of jokingly, you can call me anytime you want. He fucking called me. But I wouldn't say that. I would say, and it's happened to me before. People have called me in a sad state once or twice. And you feel bad. You feel bad for them. But then that's the other thing.

When you're depressed, you're worried about everyone else. The fear is, God, everyone is going to hate me. No, no. But logically, that's not the case. Of course. Intelligently, we know that's not the case, of course. You know, intelligently, we know that's not the case. Listen, what you don't want is to suddenly find yourself as the primary carer, someone with a full-time job of care for someone that you don't know very well

and you didn't sign on for it, and you're trying to deal with your own shit. That's a different thing. And then you've got to say, well, mate, I'm so sorry, but you've got to find help. You've got to find professional help. And that's what you would say. But if you're like in a hole and every few months the shutters come down

and you're like, I fucking feel terrible and I just feel like I'm going mad and I want to say hi and speak to someone who's, you know, that's okay. Thank you. I won't. You can, though. Thank you.

Well, listen, here's some practical advice for you, right? Yes. Before we move on to other things. Okay, yes. Step one, don't fucking reply to people on Twitter who think you're a twat or disagree angrily with something you've said. What's best, ignoring, blocking or muting? Well, I don't know.

I'm wishy and washy, so I would go for muting. OK, mute. Well, I often think the blocking, then they go, aha, see, he couldn't handle it. I must be right, he's blocked me. Yeah, I just don't want... You don't care about these fuckers. I do.

The problem is I do care about them. Yeah. I think human beings are human't you don't care about these fuck. I do I the problem is I do care about them Yeah, I think human beings are human beings and I want us to get on I want to be liked I want to be liked I want to be understood. Yeah, I want to like other people I don't like the idea of living in a world with twats in it. I don't Don't I don't believe that most people are twice. You know, I mean, yeah, no, I agree I think most people are decent people and I don't like it when people are twats. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I agree. I think most people are decent people. And I don't like it when I start to think they are. Yeah.

I don't like it when I just think, oh, this guy's a jerk. I find it so hard not to engage with those people. But I'm not going to engage. Thank you, Adam. Thank you. Just, I mean, it's very hard. Yes.

But don't. I'm not going to. Stop. You know? It's finished. And if you do, just scrupulously polite if you can. Yes. But don't. I'm not going to. Stopped. You know? It's finished. And if you do, just scrupulously polite if you can. I'm not going to engage with them. Thank you. Next bit of advice?

Have you got a list? Yeah. Next bit of advice. It's very important to dry thoroughly between your toes. Otherwise you can get what seems like a little nick. A little cut. And it's agonisingly painful. Is that what that is?

Yes. I miss talcum powder. Yeah. My mum used to give us a bath, she'd dry us off, and then she'd cover us in talcum powder, so that would absorb any moisture left. You can still get talcum powder.

I'm going to buy myself some talcum powder. My dad was a big fan in his last months. Really, was he really? Yeah, the medicated talcum powder. Medicated? Sure. Do you mind me asking what medication was in the tal months. Really? Yeah, the medicated talcum powder. Medicated? Sure. Do you mind me asking what medication was in the talcum powder?

You don't mean cocaine, do you? It was mild heroin. Wow. It's brilliant stuff. And you can get that in boots? Yes, you can. It's not mild heroin. I don't know exactly what the medication aspect of it is, but I guess it's quite good if you've got skin that is sensitive

or prone to soreness or that kind of thing. So, yes, OK. Continue, Ava. It's great stuff. That's the end of my advice. Thank you. let's talk monkeys. You love the monkeys, right? Yes, I do. I'm obsessed with the monkeys. When did you get into the monkeys? When I was a kid, when they used to show it at the summer holidays.

You know, the half-term and stuff on 9.25 in the morning. But yeah, so I would watch it in the school holidays. And I became obsessed with them. And it's kind of an arrested development thing, I guess. I've got hundreds of records that are all the same, but ever so slightly different. I've been over to the States to see them. I've started a record label.

I've got a record label, 7A Records, me and my friend Glenn. And we release kind of monkeys-related albums and CDs and things and vinyl records and things like that. I should have brought you one as a gift. And, yeah, so it's good. I've just emailed Mickey Dolenz tonight. Right, so you must be pals with them if you're putting out some of their releases.

I'm pals with Mickey. Mickey and I get on very well. I don't think Peter likes me, Peter Talk. Why, because you're too keen? Possibly, possibly. I don't know why. I interviewed him, right, recently. He came don't know why. I interviewed him recently. He came over here last year.

I interviewed him on the phone. He was in America. And the interview was going well. And then I said, Peter, listen, before we go, just to let you know, and I knew that you'd been aware of this stuff already because I'd emailed people. I said, Peter, I've just released a record with Mickey. I'd love to send you a copy

and I'd love to talk about the possibility of releasing a record of your solo stuff. And he went, hello? Hello? Ian? I think the line's... Hello? Doo!

He made that noise. No, he didn't. The line went dead. He put the phone down. Now, come on, man. The interview was 15 minutes. It was fine. The last two minutes, suddenly you can't hear me.

Come on. That's paranoid. No, it's not. Honestly, I don't think he likes me. Nesmith likes me. Well, he's the one to be liked by. He's the one to be liked by. I also love the Beach Boys

Beach Boys are my second favourite band and I saw one of the Beach Boys at LAX one of the worst airports in the world and I saw Al Jardine from the Beach Boys so not like a main Beach Boy but a Beach Boy he's a good Beach Boy he's a good Beach Boy but I got all

and I had to go and speak to him and I was trying to think of a really obscure song that he'd written on their 1972 album surfs up i was thinking what's this song called what's this song called and i went into the toilet and i washed my hands and i thought and i came out and he'd gone and i saw him and i i followed him down the escalator and i i went i was so nervous i went mr jardine and he had his back to me right and he didn't think I could see it, but I saw him and he went... Ian is hanging his head with weary resignation. And he turned around, yeah, what do you want?

And I was absolutely crushed. And what I wanted was, I wanted an autograph and I wanted a picture. And I know that you kind of have to judge those things. It's not always appropriate to ask. So in the end... So were you in the toilets? No, I'd come out of the toilets. And I know it's not always

appropriate to ask for very rarely would I ask for a pic but it was a beach boy and all I said was I just wanted to thank you Mr Jardine for all the music thanks very much

bye and I turned and I walked away I was absolutely crushed absolutely crushed by a beach boy oh Jardine yeah

but you know maybe that had happened to him nine times that day yeah and maybe someone the last time it had happened to him nine times that day. Yeah. And maybe someone, the last time it had happened was he was having a tense moment with his partner or something. Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Exactly. But, yeah. That's a shame, though. One of the principles. Because you carry that with you forever after that. The coolest thing was, you remember Hurricane Katrina? I do. And, you know, how long ago was that? That was years ago. I was going out with Tess. So that was like maybe long ago was that? That was years ago.

I was going out with Tess. So that was like maybe 10, 11, 12 or 13 years ago. And Brian Wilson put a thing online saying, if you donate $100 to Hurricane Katrina, I will phone you up. What? And I was like, that's like 67 quid. And it's a brilliant cause. Even if he doesn't phone me up i'm in for 100 bucks yeah

so i sent 100 bucks and i wrote really specific instructions of what number i would be on at what time and what day yeah i think i thought i'm never gonna hear anything and then one night about nine o'clock at night my girlfriend at the time test came in going there's a guy on the phone he says he's brian wilson and it was it was brian wilson phoned me up live yeah live it wasn't a recorded no he phoned me up and um I've met him since but he phoned me up and he went hey there's Brian Wilson here and I was like oh Brian oh man and he chatted and he said what do you do for a living I said I'm a comedian are you lying I swear to God this And in fact, no one's ever spoken about this. I've never seen anyone in any forums

discussing this. And he said, oh, you're a comedian. That must be fun, making people laugh. And I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the premise was, you were allowed to ask him one question. And do you think it really was him, though? Yeah, I'm convinced it was him. Oh, my goodness. I'm convinced it was him. And I had all these questions about Dennis Wilson and about all these lost

tracks. And I froze. And he went, Wilson and about all these lost tracks. And I froze. And he went, Ian, you can ask me one question. What would you like to ask me? And I went, what's your favourite Peach Boys record? Oh, no. What a terrible question to ask. That's OK.

What did he say? He said Pet Sounds. Yeah. And then you could hear someone who I suspect was his wife saying, it's time to finish this call. Or Eugene Landy. I think Landy was out of the picture at that point. There's an interview I wish I'd done. And he went, OK, I've got to go now.

Thanks so much for talking to me. It's been really nice. Take care. Bye. And I put the phone down. I burst into tears. I burst into tears. Quite right. I had to go.

My girlfriend took me for a walk around the block to calm down. I kept going, Brian Wilson just called me. It was Brian Wilson. 67 quid for a walk around the block to calm down. I kept going, Brian Wilson just called me. It was Brian Wilson. 67 quid for a call from Brian Wilson. It was incredible. That's the best money ever spent. What a bargain. What an absolute bargain.

Wonderful. So that was cool. That is amazing. Yeah. I can't believe that. I'm going to start asking some questions online to see if anyone else had that phone call. They must have done.

Loads of people must have done that that is amazing i love it let us travel back into the mists of time long ago when you were a different person do you remember when you did that thing let's discuss it in excruciating detail. So, Ian. Yes. You and I, we alluded to earlier on in our conversation, were involved with one of the most important comedy programs in the anals of comedy history. You said anals. Yeah, I think that's the correct pronunciation.

Why not? In this context. And it was called The Persuasionists. Yes, sir. It was originally called The Scum Also Rises. Harry Enfield was originally in it as well, wasn't he? I remember doing a read-through with Harry Enfield in, yeah. It was put together, for those who don't know,

by Ian Morris and Damon Beasley. They didn't write it, but they were producers, and it was Boarke, their company, who, of course, were behind The Inbetweeners and I worked with them on the 11 o'clock show and this is one of the first projects they did on the back

of The Inbetweeners on a huge success of that show so it was quite exciting to be involved with it oh and I was thrilled that they'd asked me and I kept thinking

at some point they're going to say well you can't act so we're going to get some of them but sadly they didn't sadly they let me stay what did you think

of it completely honest let's let's mano a mano now don't listen in because you might be upset by what we're about to say completely honest yeah no i can't do that because i've i've had a policy about the persuasion it's wow only ever to talk about it in terms of it being one of the most successful and legendary comedy shows ever made i I appreciate that. I appreciate that. In that case, you've told me what you think. That's great. And if for some reason you live under a rock, you didn't see it, if you don't like comedy or classic shows,

it was a show set in an advertising agency. Yes. And so it was kind of a wacky, crazy, nutty, zany, goofy. I don't know about goofy. There wasn't much goofiness in it. It was bucking a trend for pretty dark, realistic stuff. And it was trying to get somewhere towards the kind of show that Graham Linehan might make or something like that. The thing I struggled with was the first, episode one, we had rehearsed it and rehearsed it and filmed a couple of pilots around that script.

So I knew it backwards and inside out. And then we filmed it on a Thursday, I think, didn't we? Yes, that's right. The live. And then we get the script. We do it in front of an audience. In front of an audience. And then we get the script for the next Thursday, on the Friday, possibly the Monday. And then it'd be.

And I had never had that. I hadn't had that discipline for a long, long time. I'd never had the discipline of having to learn a whole show's script in basically three or four days. So I couldn't relax when I was doing it because I was constantly just holding onto the words in my head, what are the next words.

You had a lot of... You were like the main part. Yeah, I know. I know. And I just thought after that... And I was offered a lot of movies and things like that. Sure. And after. And I just thought after that, and I was offered a lot of movies and things like that.

Sure. And after that, I just thought, I'm going to stop now. This is... It's not going to get any better. It isn't going to get any better. What's the point?

Yeah, you can't... It's silly. I'm still waiting for series two. I don't know if Ian... I'm waiting for the DVD release. I think it's been held up with complicated legal wrangles.

We're negotiating how many points I get. When a show is that big, you know, everybody wants a slice. And sometimes things can get held up. That's why it's not repeated either. With legal wrangles, exactly. I guess the thing now is to do a movie, isn't it? So we'll probably reconvene for the movie.

A bit like the Entourage movie. I don't want to... Imagine if it was as good or better than the Entourage. I've never seen Entourage. Have you not? Is The Entourage movie... Okay. It's amazing. Is it really? I'm going to check that out. I'm definitely going to watch that on your

recommendation. Entourage is a good show. I don't watch TV shows. I don't watch American TV shows anymore after being betrayed by Lost. Lost and Fringe really broke my heart and I just thought you can all get stuffed, you American TV shows, where you run out of ideas at the end and think we won't notice. Fringe, I never even tried with Fringe.

Fringe was great until the last 20 minutes of the end of the penultimate season. And then they made another season that was like a different story. It's like, fuck off. To return to The Persuasionists, like to return to the persuasionists sorry the legend of the persuasionists yeah after we'd had this terrific summer working in teddington yeah hanging out and listening to you shouting at box manufacturers guys hey guys guys um then we didn't see each other for a while we didn't hear from uh it was for the bbc this show was it bbc2 wasn't it bbc2 yeah yeah yeah i think yeah it was yeah yeah yeah bbc2 and um proper bbc and then we heard that

it was going to go out early the next year maybe 2010 january 2010 or something sure why not i'm not sure and um and i hadn't i i'd made a decision that I wasn't going to read any reviews because I didn't know what it was going to be like, how it was going to turn out. And I thought, okay, well, I'm not going to court mental disaster by seeking out reviews, as we've alluded to earlier on in this conversation. It's sometimes not the best thing to do. Anyway, so i thought uh i'll just let it go out and if people like it great and uh if it doesn't do well and if it sinks without a trace never mind yeah it was fun to do

but then the morning it was going to go out i get a text from i think it was Damon Ian and Ian Morris and Damon Beasley had produced the show for the block and Damon sends this text was it was it Damon or do you because you must have got one as well I can't remember if it was Ian or Damon one of them sent

this text and it said first of all group hug and then it said, first of all, group hug. Oh. And then it said, guys, I just want you all to know, because it sent it out to all the main cast members, I just want you all to know that me and Ian stand by this show. Oh, I do remember.

Yes, I do remember this, yes. And we're really proud of it and the work you did on it. And so I was like, oh, shit. Well, I always say, I think it went out on Tuesday nights. The first two episodes went out on Tuesday nights, and it was so good, they put it to the 1.20am on a Sunday morning slot to try and draw an audience there because they knew it would... they did, they moved the last

three or four episodes to the slot where they obviously thought it would have its biggest impact. The money slot they call it. I was so heartbroken because again it's something I invested so much time and I don't know myself in thinking this is it, this is

going to be the turning point in the career. And it was. Well, the vehemence of the reaction was, I think maybe because it was January, there wasn't too much else going on. I've seen worse programs. Of course.

And I mean, almost every program is worse. But it got much more attention than I think anyone expected it to. Yeah. And it was pretty extreme. And I guess because people were so overwhelmed with how brilliant I was in it, they didn't quite know. They were too nervous to phone me up with offers for work for about a year. He'll only say no.

Exactly. He has scripts, nothing like that. I don't want to get laughed out of the office thinking that maybe I can attach him to my next big project. Spielberg's too nervous to call. him to my next big project Spielberg's too nervous to call and you know I'd heard people use the phrase oh the phone didn't ring for six months or whatever and I always thought that was a bit of kind of bullshitty industry jargon literally the only time the phone rang was for people who got a wrong number I was still doing the radio show.

The year after Rise, the phone didn't ring for a year. I had that. But yes, I was still doing the radio show, so I was kind of able to go back and throw myself into that. And then when it was mentioned at work, it was always a little bit awkward. Here's what we do. All of us get together. We watch it, we do the DVD commentary

and we put it as a podcast I'm up for that I am up for that it's got to be everyone though, everyone's got to be happy because I don't like the idea that anyone would feel we're trashing the hard work that was put into it let's record, even if it's just one episode

I don't think I could do the whole series my sides would be splitting. We should record a DVD commentary and put it as a podcast. All right, that's a good idea. Press play on your DVD players now. Guys, guys, if you're listening... Get in touch. ...possessionist writers, cast members, directors, producers,

come on, let's get back together again and relive those great, great times. Come on, let's get back together again and relive those great, great times. Ian Lee. Thanks so much, Ian, for coming on the podcast. It was really good to see him again. And I'll keep you posted, listeners, about the persuasionists' reunion. But I imagine if it happens, it'll be in all the papers.

So you'll probably find out there anyway. I wonder if you can see The Persuasionists online. I don't know if you can. I've never actually searched for it myself. I wonder if it's still as classic today as it was when we filmed it in 2009. I don't know. And don't feel you have to tell me, please. Thank you.

Back next time with Rosie, I hope, out in the countryside. Right now I'm in London. I'm going to see Radiohead at the Roundhouse this evening with my son, no less. I'm going to meet him. And it's pretty exciting. He's going to be probably dressed like a grown upup and i'll be dressed like a 13 year old with a beard that's the way it goes these days uh and hey before you message me and uh ask yes i am going to try and get one or two of radiohead on the podcast at some point if i can they're not the easiest to pin down as you may have guessed for some reason they're not the easiest to pin down, as you may have guessed. For some reason, they're not desperate to do publicity. I don't know why that might be. But this isn't publicity.

This is ramblicity. Ramblocity. Ramblocity. See, this is why they're not going to come on the podcast. But, you know, maybe they'll show a bit of old guy solidarity. Come on, us old guys, we've got to stick together. Be nice to each other. Hey, thanks so much to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for production support

and Matt Lamont for crucial edit help. Thank you very much indeed for downloading this podcast. I really hope you enjoyed it. Till next time, please take care. I love you. Bye!