THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.22 - JONNY GREENWOOD

Episode Date: June 12, 2016

Adam talks to composer and Radiohead man, Jonny Greenwood as they stroll around the French city of Lyon on June 1st 2016. Music and jingles by Adam Buxton ALWAYS DEAL WITH IT UP! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This podcast does not contain much swearing, but it is probably not suitable for children. Especially because of the Christian Bale jingle, what do you reckon? Excuse me? I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin. Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening. I took my microphone and found some human folk. Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke My name is Adam Buxton, I'm a man

I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan Rosie! Rosie! Rosie, come here and say hello. Hey, I've got her tongue hanging out and she's sort of loping towards me going, what, what do you want? Why do you always ask me to come say hello? And what am I going to do when I get there? No, I'm a dog. Toggle. Rosie, give us a hug. Rosie. Oh, Rosie, you're all wet. She's been bouncing around in the tall grass again in a very reckless

fashion. And the grass is all wet because it's been raining. Ah, it's very muggy today. So that's the weather report. Hey, how you doing, listeners? Welcome to podcast number 22, which features a conversation with Johnny Greenwood, keyboard and guitar player for alternative rock band Radiohead. Johnny was ranked 48 in Rolling Stone magazine's list of the 100 greatest guitarists of all time in 2011,

which is very good. I didn't even make the top 60. But, and this is very clever of me to say, there are other strings to Johnny's bow. As well as being a rock guy, he Johnny is an increasingly impressive and in demand composer for films, feature films. I guess in that arena, he's probably best known for his work with director Paul Thomas Anderson. Anderson and Johnny has worked on PTA's last three films, Inherent Vice, The Master and of course There Will Be Blood. I drink your milkshake. I drink it up. Bastard in a basket. Not you Rosie. Not you, Rosie.

As I speak, Johnny Greenwood is 44 years of age. Though I'm sorry to say that will change, thanks to the twattish and inexorable yomp of time. He is married to a woman, and he has three human children. And one dog child. Now, like the other members of Radiohead, I would say that Johnny's not especially comfortable with the whole business of giving interviews and talking about himself. So this ramble chat is by no means an in-depth account of his career thus far. It's not one of those kinds of interviews. Instead, it's more of a series of moments

from a fairly meandering conversation that we had at the beginning of this month, June 2016, when I went out to Lyon to see Radiohead play a show at the Roman amphitheatre on the hill of Fourvière. The amphitheatre? Here's a fun fact about the amphitheatre. It was apparently built around 15 bc whoa back then if you wanted something from the merch stand you had to haggle and it took ages

however the beer was a lot cheaper so that was good apparently the toilets were a disgrace though this is good stuff isn't it what gigs were like in 15 bc oh i'm gonna have to save that up for the live shows anyway i asked johnny if he'd ever be up for doing this podcast and he said possibly and he said maybe the best thing would be if i got myself out to leon when they were playing there and he said we could talk in the afternoon before the band did their sound check and in fact right at the end of our conversation I think you can hear Ed O'Brien of Radiohead sound checking in the background strumming a few chords. I got to know Radiohead through their producer Nigel God Godrich, I suppose, back at the beginning of the noughties, which is very exciting for me because I was then and still am a big fan of the band. And one of my

favorite times ever was working with Radiohead on the webcasts that they did around the release of In Rainbows in 2007, which some of you will know about. did those with my friend Garth Jennings friend of the podcast Garth Jennings and actually recently I also made a little video for them one of the 30 second video vignettes or blips to accompany tracks from their new album moon-shaped pool which I think they put on Instagram, little 30 second square videos. I did the one for Desert Island Disc with some daisies buffering. So anyway, this ramble chat, I met Johnny outside his hotel in the old part of Lyon, where we wandered around later in the afternoon, being stopped occasionally by excited Radiohead fans, some of which you hear in the podcast.

But first, we trudged up the big hill behind where Johnny was staying. And once we'd reached the top, we found ourselves outside the Basilica of Notre-Dame de Fourvières, which is where I attached a mic to Johnny and we started to whiffle and waffle. And that's, I think, all you need to know. Probably a lot more than you need to know.

So come with us as we walk around. Just you, me and Johnny Greenwood. Here we go. Ramble chat. Let's have a ramble chat. We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that. Come on, let's chew the fat and have a ramble chat. Put on your conversation coat and find your talking hat.

Yes! Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, in France, which is in Europe, where all the Europeans live. It's the place that we have to stay in unless we want things to get really, really bad, according to David Cameron. You want to stay in Europe, right, Johnny? Sure. What's not to like about Europe? It's a place, isn't it? I mean, it is, you're right. But this is nice, Lyon. Just had a great stroll around the old town. We didn't take the funicular. No. We decided to walk up some stairs.

Sure. We had a nice walk through the park. Got a little bit cottagey. Very high-end cottagey, though. I was observing that it's the kind of... There's lots of little nooks and crannies as you walk up this hill. And little, very nicely tended, walled garden areas. What is the name of this place?

Four Vieres. And it looks like, as Johnny said, it looks a bit like Sacre Coeur in Paris. On the way up, you've got all these little nooks and crannies where normally intravenous drug users would convene and have their drug fun. And then it would all be ruined by their bloody needles and their tagging. But what I was saying was that probably there wouldn't be too many intravenous drug users because it's just too knackering to get up the hill. And once you're up though, if you did get up there to do your crazy drugs, you would probably be cured

because the view from up here is life-altering. And some guy in the background has just started up with an accordion. Yeah. Which is just perfect. Why don't you go over and show him some minimal accordion moves? Have you ever got with the accordion? I've tried. I've got many very silly instruments. I've got a bladder pipe.

Oh, mate. Have you ever seen one of those? I'm sorry to hear that. That's just something that happens at this age, I guess. No, what's a bladder pipe? It looks and sounds as ridiculous as the name suggests. It is literally a bladder with a pipe attached. And you inflate the bladder by blowing into it.

It's like a miniature bagpipe, but there are two pipes coming out with holes on, so you use your left and right hand so you can play two notes at once. Where does that instrument originate? Well, I got it in Prague. I think it's an Eastern European thing. Okay.

Very suits corner of me, but that's my day of a good time is going to silly instrument shops and getting an instrument that looks nearly playable i think if you're a musician moreover you have some talent then i think it's acceptable to go and buy strange musical instruments yeah who else is going to buy them if not you i would say it would be more sudy for someone like me to go along and get them which i have done i've got loads of musical instruments and I can't play any of them. No, it's not true.

It's true. I've heard your jingles. Well, that's GarageBand, though. Or at least that's Logic. Right. I don't use the ready-made jingles anymore. They are constructive. Right.

But someone on Twitter the other day said, Oh, look, you've got yourself a K-Oscillator. And indeed I have. Did you spot that? Did you ever use the K-oscillator? No, I remember Joe being a fan. That was his only secret weapon. Joe Cornish.

Well, he turned me on to it, yeah. Right. Is it related to the K-os pad, which you have used? I do use that, you see, yes. But that's just for recording and playing back. I don't oscillate with it. OK. I don't know what you're doing with that thing.

Interesting. You still use something similar on stage, right? Don't you? Yes, that's right. We have song, everything in its right place and I get to record Tom in real time and instantly playing back. This car is next to us.

I'm going to wait for it to go and then resume. Let's sit here in awkward silence. Let's say something that is definitely not going to be usable. Let me tell you what I already think about Brexit. So that car's gone now. I can return to what I was asking you before

about the things you use on stage, the chaos pad. Right. Is it actually a chaos pad you're using then? It is, that's true and I get to record Tom and make him sound like he's singing backwards and, you know. Right, so at the beginning of everything in its right place, he sings some stuff. Yeah, and throughout the song, I just take little snippets and fire it back in a timing best designed to put him off. And I wanted to ask you if you ever find it difficult to concentrate on stage especially with all the lights and all the lights all the flashing lights

because there's an awful lot of lights and flashing lights and there's several strobe sections okay where you feel even as an audience member slightly disorientated yes and i can't imagine what it's like trying to do your thing on stage. I've started enjoying playing while not really watching what my fingers are doing too much because I think it's easier. Right, okay. Especially on piano and stuff, it's like you, it makes me less nervous. So you could play literally in the dark? Yeah, sort of, yes, usually. Is that the same with the guitar then? Do you feel, have you fused with that instrument?

No, it's still a clumsy struggle. But piano is more, I imagine I'm home sometimes because I remember practising all the songs at home and so I kind of pretend I am there and it makes me a bit less nervous that so many people are watching and listening. It's a nice way to do it. This This is part of the European tour, Leon, for Moon Shaped Pool. Right. And we are in early June.

June 1st it is today. Yep. 2016. And you will continue to tour Europe and the world for the rest of this year, is that right? Until October, yeah. And that'll take in places like Japan and then the US? Sure, yes. And you should come with us. Okay, you have to come. Yeah, thanks very much, I will. That was easy. Yeah, thanks very much, I will. That was easy.

Now all I need is to get dispensation from my wife. My wife. She wasn't totally happy when I announced that I was going to Lyon in the middle of half term. Oh yeah, of course. But world tour, you get little breaks in between so you don't go crazy, right? That's true. Yes, it's quite spread out this time and the touring experience is one that you're all happy with that you enjoy that you look forward to or it's you don't dread it though

right we're in car central so we're going to sit over there sure there we go Now we've relocated. And now come the children. That's OK. So, yeah, the business of touring, you were saying it's quite fun, you know, you get to walk around new places like this. I mean, that must be great. It's great. There's no downside at all. And I don't understand bands complaining about touring. It's always great.

I mean, until someone gets ill or there's that kind of stress, that's the only time when it gets gone. Especially at the level that you're at. I imagine that touring, when you're staying in shitty hotels and you've got long journeys in horrible vans or whatever, that's probably not that much fun, even though you're bonded by the camaraderie. No,'s fun it's always been fun it was always like the most exciting when we started just having a van turn up outside our house to take us to our first

tour in england it was just the best you know we're going and going to play it was it was coventry our first ever show show, and it was just so exciting. Unbelievable, just turning up in this background venue, still had sort of sticky floors and smelt of beer and fags, and loading in and playing a show, and just fantastic. I used to, on purpose, not know where we were going the following day, and it was always exciting. You know, even if it was like Buckley Tivoli or Swindon or wherever.

Yeah. I guess the things that people say, the downside of touring, they point to the boredom, hanging around, not knowing what to do with your time. OK, well, I counter that with it's the free time. You can do more music and more work. You've got quiet rooms to work in. You've got musical instruments everywhere. It's amazing. It's kind of, you know, adolescent musical heaven, really.

So do you actually get work done when you're touring around? Sure, loads. Like, most of the film music I write is all on tour and in hotel rooms and the classical stuff. So you'll just wake up in the morning, have yourself some breakfast. Sure. How does a day go? You describe it to me. Well, it's changed. It used to be in the early, early tours, it would start by picking up Yellow Pages, looking for the nearest record shop and just walking there and buying old vinyl, sort of jazz records.

That's what I used to do when we first went to America. But now it's more I'm making use of free time away from family and spending it kind of in hotel rooms or in dressing rooms. I like going to the venue early. That's what I really like doing, getting there really early. I just like the crew and I like that whole side of it, the slightly sort of military feel of, you know, being backstage and seeing everything come together. And, you know, it can be off-putting. It can be sort of a bit mind-blowing seeing how many people are involved

and the preparation that go into this two hours of, you know, makes you think about every kind of wrong note and bad version of a song you play when you see, like, members of the lighting crew asleep during the gig because that's the only time they can physically sleep and they're sighted of stage, they're lying on a road case, you know, and having loaded in at five that morning and loading out, you know, two in the morning.

Yeah. It's a crazy life. What makes for a bad show as far as you're concerned? Being nervous, not enjoying it because you're nervous or you feel like you're playing badly. I just did three shows at the Roundhouse. One of them I was really nervous for and didn't really feel great about and two of them I really loved it.

Just listening to Tom sing and just playing to that made me very happy. So it's not a guaranteed thing by any means. Yeah. But that makes it interesting, I think. And you played for a long time, like, didn't you play, like, two and a half hours or something? Didn't feel that long, but yeah, I'm sure. And you play very different set lists,

because I went on Set List FM. What's Set List FM? Here we go, Set List FM. And look, Radiohead are right at the top of popular searches for Setlist FM. Right. And it just tells you the setlist that they've played with. Yeah, and it tells you the setlist. OK.

And I was able to see that your setlists from the three Roundhouse shows were very different. Right. Yes, to the consternation of our crew who would obviously prefer it to be the same i can remember seeing you two play um and the woman showing us around we asked her how many songs had to do left to do and she just looked at her laminate and there was a set list on the back of the pass and back of the same every night okay which is just bizarre but i guess when you've got that much production, you have to be organised. You have to know the structure.

Yeah, and I guess there's a part of the audience that probably likes that. It makes it easier so that people don't feel, oh, I didn't get to see that one, or I wish they'd played that one on my night. Broadly speaking, the shows at the moment are starting with moon-shaped pool stuff and then going into a mix of King of Limbs and older stuff and then encores that include, well,

anything, right? Is there anything that you're not playing? You've played Creep, you're playing Paranoid Android. Are there any big ones that aren't on the list? We tend to find that some songs suddenly don't sound very good to our ears, and then we just leave them off for a while. Like, no surprises, we didn't play for three or four years just because it felt...

I don't know, tried it in rehearsal, didn't really feel it, but now it's back in again. Yeah, yeah, and sounding really good. Yeah. It's got a swagger to it now, which I like, the way Philip's playing. Uh-huh. It's good. And, oh wow, we've been overrun. Should we head back down to the... Yeah, okay. The park? Sampai jumpa! The night that me and Frank came to see you at the Roundhouse, Frank is my eldest son, and he's only ever been to one other gig. Actually, it was also at the Roundhouse.

It was Wilco a few years back. Okay. Which he really liked, but he was a little bit young. Yeah. And wasn't really familiar with a lot of Wilco's work. But he really was impressed by it. But this time he's a bit older, and's now as well as the music that i've shoved down his throat he's also exploring lots of other stuff and radiohead has got its hooks

into him in a big way okay and he really loves moon-shaped pool it was really fun being at a gig and experiencing it through them in a way way, you know. OK. And enjoying his excitement... Yeah. ..at seeing this. I mean, he didn't really... People kept saying to him, you know, like, wow, this is a big deal because Radiohead wouldn't normally play in a venue this small anymore. I think we would, though, wouldn't we? Would you?

Well, it's tough, you see, because I don't think we could have played that same set list if we'd been in, say, the O2 or some big... We'd have felt obliged to be a bit less... Yeah, it would just be a very different thing, I think. You'd play more hits or you would play less? Because I saw you at the O2 and you did a pretty good varied set there that had some oldies and... Yeah, I suppose so

I don't know it's weird you see I think I mean in our heads we're still you know we want to be Sonic Youth not to be the same kind of band that we were all into at school and it was never about being a big band you know some bands have that ambition I think think, to just be, we want to be the biggest band in the world, and that's what they kind of aim for. And that's never been a very comfortable thing, I think, for us. What was your ambition then? Did you ever think about things like that and say, these should be our goals, or were they conversations about things you wanted to avoid?

I remember when we signed our record deal, Ed pretty much taking us aside and saying, right, this is where bands usually stop putting any effort in because they think they've got somewhere and this is where we've really got to work hard. Not that we hadn't or weren't anyway, or were too anything other than so uptight and anxious to rehearse and write.

But yeah, we've always had that side of us, I think. So ambition, yeah, was always just to make records as good as the ones that we all were excited about. That was far more the goal than playing concerts or attracting, you know, interest that way. Right. Like in the early school days, we would endlessly write music, rehearse it, record it,

and just listen to it ourselves and play it to each other, practically. It was a very insular thing, looking back. It's quite odd how we used to... And even when everyone was at college and we'd get back and practice all holidays, there'd never be a concert or anything. We'd just be kind of rehearsing to rehearse, and there was no goal. It was weird. It was quite aimless in a way. It chimed with me when I heard about the Pixies being, because we made our first record with Sean Slade and Paul Calderi, who'd recorded some Pixies records.

This was like in 92 or something that we worked with them. And they said, yeah, you know what, the Pixies always deserve their success because they used to hole up in rehearsal rooms and practice and practice and practice. And I always thought that was really cool and worth emulating. And it's really good that this concept of being able to rehearse as a band and get better, but not get better individually as players and become all sort of session-y and all sort of bad fusion rock guitar solo land.

There's two different kinds of practising, and one is this sort of communal thing of becoming a better band as this kind of entity, and that's very inspiring. How is it different then? What are you doing differently in a practice in that case? Are you talking more or are you...? I guess you're arranging music, you're arranging songs, aren't you? And you're working out structures for things and... And you're saying, hey, you're arranging songs, aren't you? And you're working out structures for things.

And you're saying, hey, guys, this bit could go here, or this bit could be shorter. Kind of, yeah, exactly. Well, the Pixies were great with that. I mean, all their songs are about cutting out the fat, aren't they? Stripping off the fat, right. Really, and working out and not being boring. It's like how these sequences should be three bars long instead, and why, you know, cutting the sharp corners of things as well.

It's interesting. But keeping enough of those sharp corners on so that the music still feels jagged and it still feels... Yeah, exactly, still feels unusual and holds your interest because of it. The fun thing about Radiohead, I suppose, for a lot of people, for me certainly, is that you manage to have your cake and eat it as far as, well, you seem to keep an eye on the art and the unusual and the original, but you're also mindful of keeping it entertaining and keeping it enjoyable and to some degree accessible and you get that when you see the band live and it was really fun ending with Karma Police. Right. Well Frank was excited, my son was excited when that the chords of Karma Police started because he's like oh I know this

this is great. Okay. They're gonna play Karma Police, cool. And everyone stood up, I think Tom teased the audience and said, you have to stand up, otherwise we'll electrocute you all. I can't remember. So everyone stood up and started singing along. And actually, everyone was in good voice. Sometimes you get an audience that are all over the place and can't sing, but it sounded quite good.

Again, I was sort of enjoying it through Frank, but I wasn't 100 100 invested in the musical experience the way i had been earlier on with some of the to me they sound like almost can style grooves that you get into okay nowadays yeah which are really amazing when you all lock in and then i think the audience locks in and you get it becomes a bit trance like it's wonderful and with karma police Police, it was more like we sing a long time. But then when the song wraps up and you get that line, you know, for a minute there, I lost myself. It's it's it's very emotional. And it's also a brilliant summation of what you get from music and going to a concert. Yeah. And it felt as if Tom was aware of that and sort of working with it. Yeah. Do you think that's right?

No, I feel sort of quite emotional having you remind me of it. It's very, yes, it's very, it's a very strange thing, isn't it, having all that sort of communal sense in a room of... Yeah, I don't know. Singing with people is an amazing thing, isn't it? Yes, you see. And it's something that you don't get... That's one of the very enviable things about people

for whom religion is important, I think. Yeah. Is that they get together and they sing on a regular basis. And there's a communal sense of joining in. Yeah, and if you're not a musician and you're not a religious person, you don't have that in your life on of joining in. Yeah. And if you're not a musician and you're not a religious person, you don't have that in your life on a regular basis. Yeah.

You really miss it, I think. I sort of got choked up when I was singing along. I surprised myself by suddenly not being able to sing that line. Right. And then the band left the stage. Yeah. And Tom stayed on there. He had his guitar and he was just strumming the chords.

Right. And then the audience carried on singing it. Yeah. He didn't do the Robbie Williams thing of just not joining in. You know what I mean? Like when Robbie Williams did Angels at Glastonbury, I think. Okay. He just held the mic aloft and expected the audience to sing the whole thing.

He didn't sing any of it. or at least he came in very late. I would rather the performer actually sang the song that you're excited about. You want to hear his voice, don't you? Yeah. Well. Anyway, so Tom joined in. It was such a great moment, I thought. It was really wonderful.

Are you feeling all that stuff as well when you're on there, or are you just concentrating on what needs to be done? Well, the good part of being in a band is you get to defray all responsibility. It's nice, it's like you're working for a company that people like. I like to kind of just melt into the fact that I'm in the band and it's happening and I think Tom does, everyone does. It's like that's the real good side of working with all these people for so long. It's not something you have to think about too much how personally involved you are in in the the endeavor i think it's a good thing

right you can once again you can lose yourself well yes you see yeah yeah all right that was good uh that was a good... That was a good walk. This is an advert for Squarespace. Can you see where I am coming from? This is an advert for Squarespace. Every time I visit your website, I see success. Yes, success. The way that you look at the world makes the world want to say yes. It looks very professional.

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Do you think of that on the plane? Is that your... Come on. This made me feel very tired. Yeah, I'm sure. Tired and sad. OK, how would you deal with this situation? What would you say?

OK. I went to get some sushi, Johnny. I don't know if you've had sushi before. It's a Japanese delicacy. Right. And they have a little sushi outlet in King's Cross. So I went to get myself a little box of sushi. Came to £9.99.

It's very expensive, the sushi, because it's such a delicacy. So the server said, £9.99, please, sir. There you go, there's a tenner. Oh, I'm very sorry, sir, but we don't have any 1p pieces today. Do you mind? So basically he was saying, I'm not going to give you your 1p change. He didn't make an issue out of this, did you, Adam? Well, what would you say, first of all, in that situation?

Absolutely nothing. You'd say nothing, right. Nothing. I thought, I've got to say something. So I said, just out of interest, if it was the other way around and I was 1p short, would that be acceptable to you? Would you still sell me the food? And she said yes, and that's the end of the...

She said no. Oh, OK. She said, no, I'm sorry. We wouldn't be allowed to. It's not a two-way street, the 1P short. If you're 1P short for something in a shop, you don't get to get the stuff unless it's your local shop where they know you and they're like, okay, yeah, next time or whatever. But if it's a chain, you are not going to get away with being one piece short adam you're turning into larry david i'm really that's a legitimate worry though isn't it i just thought what is that i can see the rage building in you again do you remember it i thought that is rubbing our noses in it you go to the the chain

out there and it's fine for them yeah because it's Because it's all about one piece for them, isn't it? Right. That's why they price things at 9.99. No, it's not. Why isn't it? Apparently not. Because they have to go into the till. No, yeah, exactly.

Right. So you have to have a receipt. Welcome in Lyon for tonight. I'm recording a podcast with Johnny at the moment. Oh, sorry. That's okay. So sorry. Do you mind if you're on it?

Okay, it's okay. You don't mind? I don't mind. What's your name? Karen. Karen. And you're coming to see the Radiohead show tonight? Yes. And this is a Roman amphitheatre tonight? It's beautiful. It's beautiful, yes. Is it open air? Yes, totally open air.

And you can not really see all the town, but for the sound, it's beautiful. Yeah. Yes. Oh, I can't really see all the town, but for the sound, it's beautiful. Yeah. Yes. Oh, I can't wait. And is there a song that you are hoping to hear tonight? For the member of Rediret.fr, we want to hear Las Flowers. From Moonchay Paul, OK.

And, of course, Dex Dark. That's a good chance you're going to get Decks Dark, isn't it? Pretty good chance. Yeah. Well, very nice to meet you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Bye. Thank you. Thank you. See you later. She's a lovely person. Where should we go now? Do you need to be somewhere?

Well, we need to be at the hotel. Right. At half one. Yeah. To get our lift to... OK. And do you need to do anything before then? Are you OK with me just glomming along? I've got to go do my hour of Tai Chi. Johnny is shaking his head. We're halfway through the podcast

I think it's going really great The conversation's flowing like it would Between a geezer and his mate All right, mate. Hello, geezer. I'm pleased to see you. Ooh, there's so much chemistry. It's like a science lab of talking. I'm interested in what you said.

Thank you. There's fun chat and there's deep chat. It's like Chris Evans is meeting Stephen Hawking. So what happened to that one pea in the sushi place? How far did you take it? Were you throwing furniture around? No, it crossed my mind to make a deal out of it. But then I caught myself.

I was like, mate, it's one pea. Yeah. Get it in perspective. Right. And so I just gave him a withering look. I gave him the most withering of my looks. Right. How does that come across? What does that look like? It was the facial equivalent of, really?

I'm sure it's haunted him as much as... Yeah, I bet he was really squirming that night. I don't know if I'm in the right job. I just suddenly had an epiphany today, and the hypocrisy of the capitalist system was pointed out to me with just one look from a small, hairy man. No, it really wound me up.

What about people? Do people ever shake their head at you in the street? Like, not because it's like, ooh, it's Johnny Greenwood, there's a guy taking a picture of you in that restaurant over there. Do you run in and embarrass him? I don't want to bother you. It's OK. I just want to thank you for what you've done and what you will do.

Thank you very much. You're very, very important for me. I'm Johnny. Nice to meet you. Very, very nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Can I take a picture? Okay, sure. Here, let me take it.

You can? Sure, sure. Oh, he hasn't got his camera that's the only problem with having your picture taken right is that people generally don't know how to use the camera or the phone you know yeah so you say yeah sure no problem and then you're there for 15 to 20 minutes while they go oh i haven't turned the flash on hang. I don't know how to turn it. Here we go. You can't imagine how important you are. You are in the way of your head, Tommy. That's really kind. Thank you. Thank you much.

You're welcome. Nice to meet you. Cheers. Can only ever be disappointing, can't it? For him or you? Yeah. No, that was good. You didn't spit at him. But it's what I mean.

It's like, it's great because he's excited about the records and the music. Yeah. And I am too. But it's nice, you know, because I can share that feeling and not feel responsible. Not feel like, you know, it's a nice thing. Yeah. You know what I mean? You don't feel responsible because you're part of a band.

Yeah. Yeah. Would you go up to someone that you really admired if you saw them in the street? That's a good question. Well, I'm a big comedian fan. So if you saw Larry David... There's a good example. There you go, you see.

I mean, he's kind of a legend. Yeah. You know, sightings would be rare, you would think. It's one of my prized possessions. I've got a script from Curb in 2007. Oh, really? And it genuinely is like three pages long.

And the first scene is just Larry gets out of the car and argues with somebody. And it's genuinely three, four pages long and has no dialogue. It has like one or two lines, suggested lines. It's unbelievable how they just took that and turned it into just, you know, all those

joyful television. So they're just ideas in there for a scene. Yeah. It says Larry gets into an argument with a woman about parking a car, and then scene two. He's like, well, that's it? That's all you had to work with? It's unbelievable.

Oh, scary for the people in the cast. I heard Julia Louis-Dreyfus talking about Veep. Right. Which, I don't know if it works in a similar way or not, but I know that some of those scenes are semi-improvised, or at least there are times when they get on set and for whatever reason a scene isn't working, or it's not quite finished, or they can think of a better way of doing it, or they're exploring a better way of doing it. But she talks about how exhausting that is because it's so anxious-making. It's so frightening.

Okay. To be in a position where you're being asked to come up with gold on the spot. Yeah. Because it's a different thing when you're writing. I mean, even writing is intimidating and difficult. But having all the crew around you waiting for you to... Having all the crew and cameras are rolling a lot of the time

and someone snaps their fingers and says, all right, just... Be funny, start now. I don't doubt that they've got very sympathetic directors and patient people working on those things. Yeah. But it must be awful. My only experience of something similar

was when I did a film called Stardust. Right. And I played one of the ghosts. I remember. And there was a scene that was... Again, it wasn't... Or they shot it and they were happy with it. Matthew Vaughan, the director,

and Jane Goldman, the screenwriter, were there. But they said to me and David Walliams, with whom I was in this scene, you know, see if you can add anything. See if you can just try some different bits out. Right. Which is a very nice thing for them to do. Sure.

I think they felt like because we were both, in a way, comedians... Yeah, sure. ..that we would like to do that. Yeah. And we're being a bit underused, potentially. Well, I don't know they just thought they're here yeah let's see what they come up with and so we took a few runs at this short scene and tried to ad lib a few bits um and none of them were making the whole crew

crack up you know and i i found it acutely embarrassing and painful. Right. But then I thought, don't be silly. You know, everyone understands you're just having a go at it. It doesn't have to be used. No one's worried about it. But then Rupert Everett, who was also in the scene,

turned around and said, and that's supposed to be funny, is it? Oh, my God, it's like play school. Oh, yeah. Ouch.'s like play school. Oh. Yeah. Ouch. It hurt. It was embarrassing.

That's not very supportive, is it? I don't think it's supportive. That's why Everett and I don't get together at Christmas. That with Paul Weller? He and I get on famous. You patched it up great. Sure. That's good.

He rang me up and said, listen, you know, about that Jonathan Roth thing, I was a bit of a prick. And saying, Paul Weller, Weller, Weller, ooh, tell me more, tell me more. Actually, I thought about it. It is very funny. And I was thinking we could go and see Captain America,

Avengers rub each other off together on the weekend. That's the new film, right? Yeah, it was bad. It was a horrible moment. But then Walliams and Rupert Everett ended up being terrific pals. And I felt quite betrayed. I was like, what? Do you not remember what happened when we were improvising the things and he turned around and he got all withering on us?

It's like school, really. It's like school. But then I suppose David Walliams is a, you know, he was able to transcend that in a way that Dr. Buckles with his 1P problems was not. Would you like a... Yeah, tea tree, cinnamon toothpick. I love the toothpick. You probably have one of these poor because Ed got me into these. I like how my father-in-law uses them. Always with his hand over his mouth.

Uh-huh. Gosh, that's very... It's the Iraqi way. Right. That's so polite, isn't it? So polite, isn't it? No-one wants to see other people digging around in there. Right. You look as if you're about to do a harmonica solo. Maybe that's what Bob Dylan was doing a lot of the time, was just picking. He had a toothpick. It was the harmonica that got me in this ridiculous band. How come? Because

when they were all at school, and it was kind of Colin and his friends had formed this band, and they had a song that was sort of a blues song, and I taught myself the blues harmonica. Yeah, and Colin said, should you come along, should you come along and play it on this song? Yeah. And it was all thanks to Colin, really, that I got the job. And yeah, I went from there to playing keyboards and guitar

and yeah don't hear too much harmonica on Radiohead albums anymore no I'm waiting waiting for the moment it's yeah it's hard to I got it onto a pavement record did you very proud of oh did you play that on um on Terra Twilight yeah yeah yeah that's blue time that's Blue Tom. Is that Billy? Yeah, Billy and Tara Twilight, yeah. I really like that record. It's a great record. I remember when it came out, people were snooty about it. I couldn't understand why. And they said, oh, this is not what we want from Pavement.

It stood up really well. It still sounds great. I really love it. It's full of great songs. Yeah. Really tuneful. I don't understand why a band can't be two things at once, you know, and do different things without it being like a kind of heresy.

Yeah. You know, if you're into a band, then you're excited to see where they go, surely, aren't you? I'm worried where this is leading now. It's not leading anywhere. It's leading to YouTube. Is it? Yeah. Do you ever read the comments? Like, when you wake up in the morning, I'm worried where this is leading now. It's not leading anywhere. It's leading to YouTube. Is it?

Yeah. Do you ever read the comments? Like, when you wake up in the morning, the first thing you do, presumably, is you get on YouTube. You see how is daydreaming doing? Yeah. What are the views? Yep.

What do the people think? Yeah. Do you ever do that, though? No, because if you read something incredibly nice, that's very bad for you, isn't it? And if you read something that's very unpleasant but has a grain of truth in it, that's not good either, is it? So you kind of, you can't win. Have you trained your friends not to tell you about reviews, good and bad?

Yeah, but then I kind of read them for every other band and, you know, I'm interested in that sort of, that kind of journalism. It can be good. It's only when someone says something part of you agrees with then that can really get under your skin. If someone says, you know, Pyramid Song is a rubbish song, then they're kind of easy to kind of dismiss because, you know, it's good. But it's when they pick up on the stuff that, you know,

part of you is worried about, which is maybe it's doing its job. That's kind of, it's fair enough. Yeah, except sometimes it can unfairly jaundice your relationship with something that's really not that bad or actually quite good or has different charms that were not apparent to that person that made the criticism, you know what I mean? And instead all they've done is shut down your enjoyment of them. That's true.

I get the impression that you as a band are fairly aware of your limitations and your shortcomings and always trying to avoid certain pitfalls. That's half the, that's the big struggle, right? Yeah. I mean, I'm conscious in this record that we've been occasionally skirting around the edge of something which could be terrible, and that's, which is kind of fun. What kind of terrible thing? Well, I mean, it's not jazz piano exactly, but there's elements of that.

Just because we like records by people like Alice Coltrane, we've got the gall to kind of go, well, let's try and make this sound a little bit like that. And then we've always been a bit like that. We've always, you know've always been a bit like that we've always you know the songs on ok computer in our swollen heads was trying to be mars davis frankly even though no one plays a trumpet so you know there you go it's like well we can sound a bit like this we've got electric piano and it's like it's fine you just you you have you have big ambition and you get as far as you can with it right you do you have a go at your version of something. Yeah, exactly. And then enjoy the way that it gets mangled.

Yeah, you enjoy missing, thinking, well, then you end up somewhere else. Sometimes it's a good place. So were you guys listening to Bitches Brew? Yeah, that was an OK computer. Yeah, loads. Right. It's all about that record, yeah.

Talking Heads, a bit of Remain in Light. Sure. We met Gerry Harrison not long after, and the revelation from him was that all of that stuff was played. It wasn't loops at all, they just played the same thing, exactly the same thing for five minutes, ten minutes. Remain in Light. Yeah. Right. Which is really interesting,

and that's why it's not exhausting to listen to, because you're not hearing the same piece of music over and over again. You're just hearing slightly different every time. Uh-huh. Have you seen this? Good lesson there. Yeah. There's some black-and-white footage of Talking Heads playing in 1980 on YouTube.

Yeah. Oh, it's so good. Tina Weymouth doesn't look very comfortable, though, because it's the new expanded line-up. Okay. And at one point, she seems to miss a beat or something, and then she's a couple of beats behind the rest of the band for a good minute or so.

Right. And they're all looking at her and going, what, what are you doing? What's going on? It's a very odd moment that you wouldn't really associate with them. Does it ever fall apart on stage? Yeah, sometimes, for sure. I mean, we do a song, Idiotech, which is all based around a homemade drum machine,

basically, which can just occasionally drop a beat or add a beat or anyone's trying to play along to it. And that's fun, because when it goes wrong, it goes properly wrong, and we just have to give up on the song and move on. Hey, hey, time out. You've got to take a break. Oh, relax, sit back. Holiday time.

Have a carrot, have two carrots, have a little and a drink of water. Go to the toilet, take your time. Holiday time. How's Rosie? Rosie is great. Oh, my God. Have you got a dog?

Yeah. What's your dog called? Mushy. Mushy. Mushy, Mushy. Mushy, Mushy, like a Japanese dog? Yeah. And she's very small and very ugly.

But I thought you were, like, not a dog person at all. No, I didn't. Well, what happened is Rosie happened. Yeah. No, Natty happened, which is my son Natty. Just pleaded and pleaded and pleaded. Yeah. And we had long discussions and we thought that it would be a good thing.

Right. For him to look after a living creature and be responsible for it, take care of it, give him some focus. And how long does that last? 10 to 15 days. Okay. And then I don't know

if he's ever walked her again since. No, that's not true. He is still interested. Sure. He loves Rosie, as do we all. But you really do. Like on a podcast,

it comes across. I do, I do. You're out being country man, wandering around. Yeah. She's good company. She's great. And I think this is a cliche about owning dogs. But in fact, I think it was Louis that was saying to me the other day, we want to be the people that our dogs think we are. OK.

In other words, there's something wonderful about the joy with which you're received by a lovely dog yeah when you come home yeah and that dog starts losing its mind almost you just collapses spread eagle on the floor and wheeze herself well there you go that's what you i get that a lot though from everyone. Sure, I get that from my wife. Sure. You know, sometimes you come back and you're feeling like a bit of a git. Yeah. And thinking I'm rubbish and then Rosie just boing. Yeah. And spinning round and round and looking at you. Just sort of this real emotion in the eyes it seems. Yeah. You know what I mean? No, she sounds stupid. Yeah, maybe she's thick. But that's all you need. Someone furry and thick that likes you. She's got a little bit of emotion in the eyes, it seems. No, she sounds stupid. Yeah, maybe she's thick.

But that's all you need. Someone furry and thick that likes you. And then you've got everything you need. Right, let's go again. What don't you fucking understand? Kick your fucking ass! Let's go again! What the fuck is it with you?

I want you off the fucking set, you prick! No! You're a nice guy! The fuck are you doing? No! You're a nice guy! The fuck are you doing? No! Don't shut me up! No! No!

Ah, da-da-da-da, like this! No! No! Don't shut me up! Ah, da-da-da-da, like this! Fuck's sake, man, you're amateur. Seriously, man, you and me, we're fucking done professionally. You're quite good at changing your style, though,

and not getting too locked into one thing. Are you quite mindful of that? Yes, I think so. Yeah, because everything you've done with Paul Thomas Anderson so far has been very different sounding, isn't it? I hope so. Yes, I think so. Does he come to you with ideas or are you left to react to the footage yourself? There will sometimes be some reference recordings or films that he likes, but he's very enthusiastic about music and uses it so prominently in his films. I think real film composers have it properly difficult. They have to work very fast.

They have their music usually rejected or spoken all over and are told what to do. And or a given temporary music that they have to copy slavishly. It has to sound exactly like that but not so close that they can be sued. And that's a lot of the job I think. Right, so you, Paul Tosanson has got you involved as a collaborator on a project, but an artist working in his own right who's going to add something to the overall... Yeah, I'm kind of indulged enough

that I can write and record far more music than is needed and sort of have fun with his orchestras, and then he just takes parts that he wants, and he even cuts some of the film to the music, which is just unheard of, I think. I mean, it's very, very, very kind of pampered not that i tell him that the idiot that he is um yeah it's good fun seeing you do i came to see you doing the um there will be blood yeah right the uh for david burns meltdown. That was good. That was great.

Although it's a weird experience because I kept on... It was a little like seeing a 3D film in that I kept having to remind myself that you were actually there playing the music. OK. Do you know what I mean? Because it just sounded like the music in the film. Yeah.

I kept on having to say, Oh, look, he's down there. There's a real orchestra there. Yeah. time and just try and make things match like that, which is a real achievement, you know, to prepare it and conduct it. Yeah, that must have been a lot of rehearsal, wasn't it? Yeah, but, you know, they were amazing. And just to sit in the middle of an orchestra and watch them play stuff like the Brahms Violin Concerto in the middle, it's just incredible. That's a long show, though, isn't it? That's two and a half hours? Two and a half hours, yeah.

And then you're set there. Lots of music, yeah. And you must be, you have to be careful about what you drink beforehand otherwise it's going to be wee wee time and then you're stuffed and now you realise

why all of the real theatre musicians that sit in the pit all day and do the same concert every night are all just wild alcoholics and must just drive you crazy imagine that

doing the same show every night, playing the same trombone part, whatever. But for me, it's the nightmare of being desperate to do a wee and not being able to go anywhere. Right. That's one of my worst things. Yeah. Have you heard David Sedaris talking about his stadium pal?

No. Maybe that's the thing for you. I thought about getting a stadium pal. No. Maybe that's the thing for you. I thought about getting a stadium pal. Right. How does it actually attach to the old chap? I believe with sellotape, so there's nothing... Sellotape? Like surgical sellotape?

I believe so, yeah. I think from my memory. He's a very funny writer. He's great, isn't he? Yeah. Yeah. Do you ever listen to his audio books? Obsess he's really really funny what's your favorite one of his oh we took pretty one day i suppose yeah classic when he's doing his billy holiday impression yeah

to a singer singing teacher yeah guitar teacher so shocked yeah very great when he's describing his childhood in america and growing up in the 70s it's just so yeah you know making people laugh it's a real it's a lovely thing don't you think uh yeah it is it's uh it's it's frustratingly imprecise art and I envy a good musician who is able to you can pretty much guarantee that you're going to do a certain thing to a crowd a lot of the time right when you're playing a good song and you're going to do a certain thing to a crowd a lot of the time. Right. When you're playing a good song and you know how to play it.

Yeah. When a musician sits down in a small venue or at a party or whatever and they actually start playing, it's like nothing else. Yeah. And you can be transported for however long they're playing. Right. And it's really exciting seeing that talent right in front of you. And that's such a wonderful, intimate experience that you can have

with someone who's performing that I don't think you can have with a comedian. I mean, you can have an enjoyable conversation with a comedian where they're being funny, but it doesn't happen that often. Usually when you talk to a comedian, they're not telling jokes as such. They're just like anyone else. You wouldn't necessarily be aware of their i suppose so but a comedian can always relate a story with stars

nice you know it's like alan bennett said it's always sharing a joke is more special than sharing a bed really and it's nicer to you know and that's that's where pleasure lies really spending time with people who are just good company it's kind of great not that we can't just pop into bed sure sure we can do that but no it's it's weird isn't it there's that that comedy and um music symbiosis that's always existed yeah that's true you see because i think the two sides envy so much about what the others do yeah um you think well the way you talk about comedy is the way i feel about music right i find it similarly exciting and i would love to be able to do what you do you know and i would love to be able to do what almost any musician does just to have that facility for creating those moments at any point yeah oh it's wonderful yeah but i'd like to have eloquence and the ability to just record my voice

and interview people and, you know, make people laugh. That's really, that's a wonderful thing. There we go. Johnny Greenwood. We spent the rest of that evening making Sweet Sweet Love. And then he went on to do a really good show with the band. It's the perfect day, really. I had a great time wandering around, drinking French beer and stealing biscuits and sweets from outside their dressing rooms while they were on stage. It was Buckle's idea of a perfect time. So thanks very much

indeed to them for putting up with me, hanging around and especially to Johnny. I hope he won't be the last member of Radiohead that appears on the podcast in future times. Before I say goodbye, oh, it's raining again. What's that? Couple of things.

People often ask me what kind of mics i use on this podcast um well i use a variety of mics sometimes i just use the mic on the on my phone these days they're pretty much good enough on this occasion with johnny i was using a couple of little Tascam mic packs, the DR-10CS with Sony Lav mic bundle. Oh, it's always good to hang out with mic bundle. But they are very small packs that record the actual audio files, WAVs or whatever format you choose. And then you can plug a little clip mic into them that's the sony lav mic bit obviously incredibly light and you can more or less forget that you're wearing them and they're very discreet and you can cover them up with fluffy cover over things if you choose i hadn't completely sussed all the settings on them it was the first time i'd used them so that's why sometimes the uh the the quality of the recording varied a little bit

on that conversation with johnny sometimes it was a bit more noisy than others but they're they're really great i'm not sponsored i hasten to add by task cam i'm not obliged to be saying any of this but i'm just um it might be of interest to some people. If TASCAM wished to get in touch and throw money and mic packs at me, I'd be absolutely delighted. And finally today, a bit of positive feedback in the form of a message I received. Listening to other podcasts, I get the feeling that people expect you to read out positive messages that you get, because not only does it shore up your own self-worth as the presenter of the podcast, but it also proves to your listeners that they're not stupid for

listening to you. When they hear that other people like the podcast, you know, you might be listening thinking, oh, well, I like it, but maybe I'm thick. And maybe everyone else is just listening going, this is awful. But then when the presenter reads out a message saying, you're brilliant, then everyone's like, oh, okay, we can relax. It turns out we were right.

He is brilliant and other people agree. So, and it's not something I would normally do on the podcast but here's a message that I got this week and this came in via the blog people have the option on my blog to leave comments but I have to moderate them all so I choose which ones to publish and which ones not to publish depending on whether the message seems to be for public consumption or not. Well, it's really raining now. Anyway, it would be good, incidentally, if you do indicate, if you leave a message there, whether you would rather it remained a private message or whether you're okay with me publishing it. This one, I'm pretty sure it's okay for me to

read it out. It's from hawks at gmail.com. And I would not normally advertise the email address of anyone sending me a message, but I think in this case it's probably okay. And it says, What I don't understand is in truth how you are no longer really a lot more well-liked than you might be now. You are so intelligent. You recognize thus considerably relating to this topic, made me personally believe it from numerous various angles. It's like women and men don't seem to understand unless it is something to accomplish with girl gaga.

Your individual stuff's outstanding. Always deal with it up! Exclamation mark. So I think that's spam. I get quite a bit of spam, and usually it's just total nonsense. But on this occasion, that spam really hit the mark in a very positive way. So thanks, hawks at gmail.com. You are one of my favorite automated people.

And that's not to say, by the way, that I don't appreciate the messages that I get from you actual human types. But that one, yeah, I loved that one particularly. All right, that's enough for this week. If this was your first time listening, maybe you wanted to listen to the podcast because you were a Radiohead fan, then I do hope you enjoyed it and perhaps you'll come back and join me for another one some other time. Until next time we meet, take care. I love you. Bye! I drink your milkshake. I drink it up.