THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.223 - JESSICA KNAPPETT

Episode Date: March 10, 2024

Adam talks with British actor, comedian, and writer Jessica Knappett about the challenges of making a good sitcom, how the stress of filming a pilot for American TV made one of Jessica's internal organs explode, what Ilkla Moor Baht'At really means, weird vocal noises, and how the world can be fixed with balls of energy and love.This conversation was recorded face-to-face in London on 1st February 2024.Thanks to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell for production support and conversation editing.Podcast artwork by Helen GreenRamble Chat pastoral remix by Anthony BrownRELATED LINKSADAM BUXTON PODCAST LIVE @ APOLLO HAMMERSMITH, 9th JUNE, 2024LIVE PODCAST WITH SELF ESTEEM, 2nd JUNE, 2024 @Crossed Wires Festival, SheffieldJOHN COOPER CLARKE - BOOK, 2024 TOUR ETCILKLA MOOR BAHT'AT (YOUTUBE)YORKSHIRE ANTHEM - ILKLA MOOR BAHT'AT - 2010 (YOUTUBE)HOW I MARRIED AN AIR GUITAR CHAMPION by Jessica Knappett - 2017 (GUARDIAN)JESSICA KNAPPETT'S QUEST FOR FREE DRINKS WENT HORRIBLY WRONG - UNFORGIVEN - 2023 (YOUTUBE)BEST OF JESSICA IN IBIZA FOR TRAVEL MAN WITH RICHARD AYOADE - 2020 (YOUTUBE)PHILIP LARKIN READING HIS POEM AN ARUNDEL TOMB - 1956 (POETRY FOUNDATION) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Come on then, Rosie. It's up the fun hill. Up the fun hill, up the fun hill, up the fun hill, up the fun hill. That is where we shall walk. I don't want to, don't want to, don't want to stick the fun hill up your big fat bum. Those are not the lyrics to Up the Funhill, Rosie. As you well know. Come on. Dog legs.

Oh, Rosie. Come on, it's a beautiful evening. Are you a bit cold? Yeah. All right, I'm just going to take Rosie back. I'll be with you shortly, podcats. I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin. Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening. I took my microphone and found some human folk. Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke.

My name is Adam Buxton, I'm a man. I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan. Hey, how are you doing, podcats? It's Adam Buxton here. Solo ramble today. Doglegs was not in the mood. I think it was just a bit too cold. Sunny all day out here in Norfolk towards the beginning of March 2024. I was even beginning to think, oh, might be a bit of spring. But actually it is cold and there's a bit of a wind now. And Rosie was refusing to budge, so I felt a bit mean to drag her along. My eldest son is visiting this weekend

so Rosie is now curled up next to him on the bed while he strums away on his guitar. Despite the cold it is looking very pretty out here. The blossoms peeking out on the big magnolia tree. You've got the black thorn in the hedgerows. Anyway, how are you doing, podcats? Not too bad, I hope. I'm going to tell you about my guest for this week's podcast in just a second,

but before I do, a quick reminder about the podcast live tour, which is happening towards the end of May, beginning of June, and the tickets are pretty much all gone. There are a few left for the show on the 9th of June at the Eventim Apollo in Hammersmith. I have a very special friend of the podcast guest lined up. Maybe some live music as well. It's going to be a fun night.

There's a link in the description of the podcast for tickets. But I'm actually doing another live podcast date around then. It's not part of my tour. It is part of the Crossed Wires Festival. It's a brand new podcast festival. It's taking place in Sheffield between May the 31st and June the 2nd this year. I'll be doing a show there on Sunday the 2nd at 5pm and I'm very excited to say that my guest will be musician and actor Rebecca Lucy Taylor aka Self Esteem. I took my wife, my wife, for a birthday treat this week to see Cabaret in London and it was one of the last performances featuring self-esteem in the role of Sally Bowles and it was fantastic. She was extraordinary.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to meeting her for some live waffle and maybe I can get her to duet on a podcast jingle or two. What about that? Come and see if that works out by visiting crossedwires.live and booking tickets for mine and other shows at the Crossed Wires Festival.

Brown Girls do it too. John Ronson is there. Catherine Ryan. Newlyweds. Talk Art with Corbin Shaw. Uncanny. And Wolf and Owl. They are all there at Crossed Wires.

There's a link in the description. I hope to see you. But right now, let me tell you a bit about podcast number 223, which features a rambling conversation with actor, writer and comedian Jessica Knappett. Knappett facts! Jessica was born in 1984 and grew up in Bingley, West Yorkshire, England. She attended Woodhouse Grove School in nearby Bradford before earning a place at Manchester University where she studied English and drama. A period of casual

employment followed. She took jobs in promotions and telly sales but a significant step towards realising her comedy ambitions came in 2008, when Jessica and some university friends made their Edinburgh Fringe debut as Lady Garden, an all-female comedy troupe. In those days, that was still a rarity, and they performed around the country for the next few years. In 2011, Jessica was cast as Lisa, the object of a holiday romance in the Inbetweeners movie,

a role that led to her developing a sitcom with the production team behind the Inbetweeners. That show was Drifters, which followed the exploits of a group of friends from Leeds as they struggled to make the transition from university to the adult world. The show ran for four series on E4 between 2013 and 2016. Drifters is currently available to watch on Netflix. In recent years, Jessica has appeared on TV shows like Richard Osman's House of Games,

Alan Davis's As Yet Untitled, Mel Gedroych's Unforgivable and Alex Horne's Taskmaster. That's what I'm calling it. Unforgivable and Alex Horne's Taskmaster, that's what I'm calling it, as well as Travelman and Question Team, both hosted by Richard Iyewade. Jessica has also been playing the part of Romesh Ranganathan's wife in his BBC One sitcom Avoidance. She's also been writing on that show. My conversation with Jessica was recorded face-to-face in London on the first day of February this year, 2024, and it was only the second time that I've met Jessica, first time I've met her properly, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it was like seeing an old friend. I hope she would agree.

We talked about the challenges of trying to make a good sitcom, how the stress of filming a pilot for American TV made one of Jessica's internal organs literally explode, and how the world can be fixed with balls of energy and love. We also talked about noises that we both make, vocal noises, with a particular focus on a noise that was sometimes made when we were at school, if someone did something nerdy. In separate schools, that is. We didn't go to the same school. And it occurred to me while I was editing that bit of the conversation that it could sound as if we were celebrating cruelty to nerds.

I associate the noise in question with good-natured bants between friends and not bullying. But I appreciate that sometimes there is a thin line. Or if you're on the receiving end and the people making the noises are not your friends, it's a big giant line. The hell is this noise you're thinking? Well, you'll have to wait and see. But my conversation with Jessica began with her commenting on my texting technique. Now, I should explain why. When I was cycling to the station in Norwich to get my train to London, I got a flat tyre on my Brompton on the rear wheel,

which Brompton owners will know is quite a palaver to fix. So I had to push my start time with Jessica back, which she was very nice about. But I was also due to meet a friend after meeting Jessica. I held off rescheduling with them because I thought that we might still be able to meet at the arranged time. But once I'd started recording with Jessica, I realised it was going to be tight. So I texted my friend to ask if they would be okay to reschedule too. However, the specific technique that I used to text my friend was, for Jessica, a source of great consternation, as you will hear. Back at the end, for news of an upcoming guest and a bit more waffle,

but right now I don't want you to get disorientated or anything, but I am going to play, instead of the regular ramble chat jingle, one of the remixes that was submitted for the Native Instruments and Meta Pop remix competition a while back in 2021, I think it was. And this is one that I particularly liked by Anthony Brown, a kind of pastoral version of Ramble Chat, which I thought it would be nice to start with today just for the sake of a bit of change. After which, you will hear my conversation with Jessica Knappett. Here we go.

Ram, ram, ram, what? Ramble Chat, let's have a ramble chat. We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that. Come on, let's chew the vat and have a ramble chat. Put on your conversation coat and find your talking bat. All right, hang on one second. Let me sort this out. Flat tyre has pushed back all my business this afternoon oh my gosh sorry dash is there any chance you could do 5 p.m dash or does that fuck everything up question mark who does that this guy

nobody actually does that i've never seen anyone why are you not just sending a voice note because it'll come up as text if you do that and that's actually more useful how do you feel about voice notes um i like voice notes but my problem is that i waffle so i end up sending five minute voice notes and people don't like it I hate that I hate it they say who do you think you are and the truth is I think I'm a sort of brilliant guy with a great voice who anyone would love to have a five minute voicemail from I'm a famous podcaster yeah exactly so you're lucky this is you didn't even have to download this is a private podcast you're receiving that's what what I think. When I send them, I just think, they're lucky.

They're getting a private podcast. But then I've been led to believe. Yes, I have been internally criticised by friends and people just pointing out like. That's too long. I've got a life. That's way too long. I feel the same way.

I love a short voice note. But I think you have to be careful with voice notes. I think before I send them, I say, you don't have to reply with a voice note because I don't think you're a voice notey person, are you? Yes. And they'll say, yes, correct. But what I've just witnessed from you, Adam,

is an extraordinary thing. Have you never seen anyone doing that? I've never seen anyone dictate a text message that will then be read. You might as well have been a voice note. So you've gone to the trouble, because what you're saying is if it was a voice note, it would end up being too long.

Why don't you just leave voice notes that are... I can't do it. ...as short as... no. Can't be concise when I notes that are as short as... I can't do it. Can't be concise when I'm speaking, as people who listen to this podcast are well aware. But, you know, I can have the concision of the text, and now dictating is so accurate. I do like the idea of eliminating autocorrect.

When I was on the way here and you were running late, I texted somebody that I was seeing next, saying, the person I'm about to see is running late yes i texted somebody that i was seeing next saying person i'm about to see is running late but it auto corrected to rubbing latex what a strange auto correct it must have just thought while rubbing what do you usually rub yeah but also have we got to be careful now because does that say more about me and the things i think it does because yes because the ai suspicions it has which is at work in that autocorrect i can guarantee you i have never texted anyone the

word latex really but maybe you've texted some saucy stuff there's saucy stuff no i don't i've seen your work absolutely not have you there's rubbing there's all sorts of there's fluids there's references to body parts can i just say something about that yeah and i realize now that's who people think i am and that's my own filthy fault. A filthy woman. Just a filthy woman. Yeah, and that is a shame, isn't it, really? No. It's a shame for me. Why is it a shame?

Because that may have been a small part of who I once was. Okay. But now all I want to do is redeem myself. You want to write some highbrow drama. You want to be picking up those golden globes alongside the succession team. You want to be hobnobbing with Phoebe Waller-Bridge. I actually do hobnob with Phoebe Waller-Bridge. Do you?

She's my best friend. Is she? Yes. Oh, well, there you go. You're sorted sorted it's happened you're fine it's happening it's happening for you don't worry about some people thinking that you're filthy no i know but i suppose it's it's not a great reputation to have phoebe waller bridge has got some filthy stuff going on in those shows as well there's different kinds of

there's good filth and bad filth. Yeah, I know. And I think I'm part of the bad filth. I do. And it's my own fault. It's what was available to me at the time. Well, you were excited. You had just come off doing the Inbetweeners movie, your first movie role.

It's like, yes, I'll do it. Sure. I'll do anything. I've read the script. Okay. Not that many lines, your first movie role. It's like, yes, I'll do it, sure. I'll do anything. I've read the script. Okay, not that many lines, but that's fine. It's a fun show. It's a big hit. I love Damon Beasley and Ian Morris of Bwark

who produced the show. I've worked with them too on The Persuasionists. Were they talking to you about The Persuasionists? Oh my God, I remember The Persuasionists. About the ad. I watched that show about the persuasionists? Oh my God, I remember the persuasionists. About the ad. I watched that show. Did you? Yes.

Oh my God. Did you write that? No. You were in it? I was in it. I was one of the stars. You were? Of the persuasionists.

Who else was in that show? Along with Simon Farnaby. Oh my God. And Ian Lee was really my co-star. Those guys. And Daisy Haggard. Wow. Jared Christmas. It was good fun co-star. Those guys. And Daisy Haggard. Wow. Jared Christmas.

It was good fun. We had fun making it, but it didn't turn out great. No disrespect to the geniuses. So there was only one series and then... Oh, yeah, only one series. It was eviscerated, Jess. Eviscerated. See, the thing is, it's very difficult, isn't it?

It is, yeah. But you see, that was just before, I think, the Inbetweeners movie, or a couple of years before that time. And it was, I think, we were coming off the back of the success of the Inbetweeners. When I say we, I'm talking about the production company and ian and damon yes and it took everyone a little bit by surprise the strength of the feeling that we encountered when it finally came out because it they sat on it for a year or so this was the bbc and then one dreary january i think it was 2010 finally when it came out, it limped out.

And maybe someone thought, oh, no one will notice in January. They'll be doing it. January is when people really, really notice. But actually, everybody notices. That's when they're really paying attention. That's when everybody's in. Have you had a rewatch of The Persuasionists? No.

No, it's too painful. The other day I was actually looking through, I'm trying to write a book at the moment. Have you had a rewatch of The Persuasionists? No. No, it's too painful. The other day I was actually looking through... I'm trying to write a book at the moment. Excuse me, I'll say that again. Oh, hang on. Here's the reply to my text. Do it in his voice. Do it in his voice, please.

This is Richard Iwerdy name dropping. Sorry to hear that. They're such a pain. No, fine. That's good. Would it be less stressful to rearrange for another day? But five is fine. What a kind man.

He's a lovely man. That's a great response to someone running late. Yeah. How can I help you? Instead of, actually, that's quite annoying. Let me make this about me. That's a good point. Maybe I could.

He means that. I might feel him out for tomorrow. Why don't you ring him? Should I ring him? I would love to know how he responds. Well, if he's texting, then he's ringable, isn't he? Then you're doing that thing where someone's yeah no he's in a meeting gone too far you've gone too far hello hey richard hi how are you i'm i'm all right thank you i'm sorry about that no not so i had um one the other day

like going down camberwell hill really fast a total blowout oh you just go can't believe an error has occurred an error has occurred with the normally faultless brompton and then i got that it was the rear wheel that was flat so it's a hole i mean you might as well get a new bike you can forget about catching your train in half an hour so everything got thrown out of whack um 5 p.m would work i mean this evening would still work but i'm thinking uh would you be around tomorrow it could be between midday and sort of three or four or something okay yes let me think i've i might have to be back at two um but it's to do something i don't want to have to do don't do it could i discuss and revert of course morning no it's me yeah okay i'll i'll do this kind of thinking

not while you're having to listen to it yeah no worries i'm here with jessica nappet by the way hi richard iowady hello jessica nappet how is how is she she's very well she's all right she's all right you're already mitigating her feelings, which is classic male behavior. You know, she said she's good. She said she's all right. Well, her face lit up when your name was mentioned. Well, I'm a tonic. All right, man.

Well, listen. That's good. You have a good record, I imagine. Yes. And let us, yes, speak on. Okay. Thank you so much. All right. No problem. Take care. Bye, imagine. Yes. And let us, yes, it's on. Okay, thank you so much. All right, no problem. Take care.

Bye, Richard, bye. Such a great guy, but, you know, quite difficult to have a three-way conversation when I wasn't really supposed to be there. If you were listening to that, would you think, this is gold, this stuff? Like, he's getting a call from a famous comedian. He's talking to her.

Or it's a bit much, isn't it? It was, there was some pretty nice stuff at the beginning. The Brompton blowout. I enjoyed that. I don't know if I need the whole thing. No. I felt embarrassed for myself sitting there. Yeah.

And then you told me to shush. That's right. I felt bad as soon as I said it. And then I thought, because I thought you were going to ring him and say, I'm with Jess Knappett. Yeah. And you didn't.

Well, that's what. You started doing diary work. Yeah. And then I couldn't speak then. And then I started, and then I thought I should speak. And then, and then you told me to shush.

And then I did speak. And then it was just awkward. But then afterwards I straightened it out. Listen, I, this is the first time i've been out of the house in 2024 what yeah it's february i know yes the first to be fair the first how come actually maybe that's true of me well hang on look we're in danger of not tying up any loose ends let's circle back. Oh, okay. The persuasionists.

We've got to finish what we started. The last thing you said was, have you gone back and watched it? Have you gone back and watched it? Because here's my new theory. And maybe this is because I'm someone who's written, yes, a filthy but pure comedy. It was a proper sitcom with jokes, a completely implausible situation. Four series on Channel 4. I think we can qualify as a success. Thank you.

However, it was at a time, and I think it suffered slightly, and I think this is the interesting thing about what you're saying as well, with regards to The Persuasionists coming out in January inuary in 2010 i think 10 what i felt was happening when drifters came out for instance it came out at the same time as girls so there's two shows that were about the same thing being made in a very different way

on very different budgets but really one of them is a broad silly sitcom and the other one is a comedy drama and the and the fashions were definitely changing around that time and edging away from broad sitcom comedy all I'm saying is I wonder if if you went back and watched The Pers persuasionists now you with a more sympathetic mind i think that there was no but i bet it's really good i don't bet and it it shouldn't be eviscerated i think i said that i'm writing a book at the moment and i was looking back through some journals to check a few things. And I came across an entry from around that time when The Persuasionists went out. And I guess somewhere online, I read a comment from someone, an actor who is still working,

who said something like, I watched The Persuasionists. How do you feel about the fact that the only black character in the whole thing was the cleaner and that all the female parts were totally retrograde and two-dimensional i mean we all need the work but seriously come on adam Adam well I just thought I didn't write the thing that's not your yeah quite right that's not your fault a couple of questions I know this is you're the person asking questions but do you journal then all the time have you always and do you always off and on yeah so do you journal on a daily basis pretty much yeah yeah certainly for the last five years or so since i got a journal app oh you've got a journal app yeah do you talk into it like you talk your texts out i don't you type a type at the moment in the past i have i

used to do voice note journal entries. Have done. How about you? Were they too long? Yeah, they were very long. No, I'm just, I'm really interested in that. I used to do something called Morning Pages, which comes from the book The Artist's Way. Oh, okay. Do you know that book? I've heard of The Artist's Way.

It's a little bit... Massanky yeah it's a little bit massively wanky yeah is this is this something you found in your LA days no it was before that when I lived alone and was was very very very anxious and was trying to find ways to combat my anxiety and i went to see a hypnotherapist oh yeah to try and cure my anxiety and she said because i couldn't sleep and i couldn't i was a mess oh man and she when was this how old were you? When I was making drifters, 27 probably. Oh, wow. Going into the age of 30, arriving at 30 was the worst time of my life. Oh, man. But you were riding high. No. Well, you would think so.

You would, from the outside. But it did not feel like it at the time at all. No, it was incredibly stressful. Of course it was. time at all um no it was incredibly stressful of course it was it was all awful i completely crumbled actually in the it could have been oh my god it has turned into therapy hasn't it i'm definitely not going to cry you're not crying no i am a crier but i don't reflect on that time and start crying i just mean that i've gone deep well maybe today's the day anyway let's see how it goes oh my god what a little steven bartlett you've become i would feel bad if you did start crying now do people cry people don't cry on this podcast they have done yeah

i mean me probably the most but other people have done it's not the aim of the game no it's not ideal ideal now i usually feel bad if people cry i think like shit i made you cry and you're feeling bad but um why were you feeling so overwhelmed then hang on did we finish talking about persuasionists did we i mean i think for me the punch line was that a fellow actor told me I should be ashamed. Yeah. Yeah, OK. Oh, yeah. And I was trying to say, I think now that perhaps we would be less hard on an attempt at pure sitcom than...

I don't know, though. I just think fashions have changed. Yeah. And I think that possibly they're going back round. I also think we're starved of it. There just isn't as much. And there was a time when there was a lot more being put out, but people just still feel very,

that people get very upset, don't they, about comedy? Oh, they really do. But listen, your first series of Drifters was 2013. God, you're good, aren't you? And was that sort of exciting to begin with though or was it immediately like oh this is a bit much yeah it was really thrilling and exciting and i i mean i guess it because it was hot off the tails of the inbetweeners movie and i was kind of wrapped up in this new you know it all just sort of happened quite quickly suddenly I was kind

of I'd gone from working in a call center to walking down the red carpet and being in a movie and then getting a pilot and then getting my own tv show and yeah it was thrilling of course it was but then the reality kicks in and you realize you actually have to write something you actually have to sit down and do the work and it was really fun the first series was really fun but also just really daunting and I think to be honest I had my hand held all the way through it by some very kind producers but there was just a lot to manage as a new young writer, even though I think people were trying their best to help me and support me and make something good. I mean, I just didn't know what I was doing, really. And yeah, I kind of enjoyed it. But then, I don't know, I suppose

I just felt terrified the entire time I was doing it. And then it went out. And also, on the one hand, you can be supported to the point of being steered in a direction that maybe I wouldn't have gone down that path if I had been left to my own devices. I remember thinking that I wanted to write a show about boredom and the mundanity of being in your 20s and being unemployed and so the boredom of having an empty life led to I suppose sexual exploits and promiscuity as a symptom of boredom. That's why I had the word drifting in the you know so it's about drifting through life

and waiting for the movie of your life to start and it felt more in my mind it was much more artistic more like a kind of indie movie or something yes but the reality was I was the girl from the in-betweeners movie and I was making a show for e4 and so I was never going to make my indie movie TV show and I suppose that's my own fault because I did it that was the way I saw to make it I still by the way feel proud of quite a lot of it and by the end of people loved it people did love it but I think you, it's funny. I'm proud of how many jokes are packed into it, whether they're believable jokes or not.

I think the people who enjoy it really enjoy it and it makes them laugh. And that's... And it makes them really laugh and they return to it again and again and again. And it's what they go to when they're feeling shit at the end of the day and they've had a long shift or they've been ill or whatever and there's nothing...

I'm genuinely really proud. Yeah, that's a wonderful thing. You know, we've made this really stupid but glorious... And you got to work with Bob Mortimer. I got to work with Bob Mortimer and Arabella Weir. Yeah. And all the people that were in Drifters and Roton. There was lots of other writers as well.

And, you know, in fact, Phoebe Waller-Bridge and Emerald Fennell, who then... Did they work on it as well? I didn't know that. Yeah, and they're in it. Brett Goldstein, Nick Muhammad. Right. Some incredible, incredible people worked on it. We did have a lovely time.

But I did also sort of have a breakdown while I was making it. When are we talking breakdown series one well I don't know if we yeah series two I think I mean not end of series two I'm being flippant when I'm using the word but yeah no so am I slightly I mean it was a kind of physical what happened was this really strange set of circumstances. And my life just became really sort of bizarre and kind of unmanageable overnight almost. It's like, OK, well, you've got all of these things that you've auditioned for that people want you to be in. You can't be in any of those because you've got a TV series to write. And you can't do anything else because you've got five months to do it.

And then we're going to film it for two months and then we're going to edit it for the rest of the year. And then we might, if you're lucky, start again, start the process over again. And all I was doing was just writing in the day and sending myself slightly mad. And then I got a call David Schwimmer Ross from Friends wants to meet you he's filming a pilot or you know and then I thought I'm not really supposed to be doing anything else because they're all stressed about me getting these scripts in on time well you have to do it you have to do it okay did this weird improvised audition with him, then got like flown to New York to do another thing, met with him. And then the next week they were like, okay, we're shooting a pilot.

And it all, honestly, all just happened so quickly that I was suddenly, I had to write an entire series of drifters, but I also had to shoot a pilot with David Schwimmer playing his wife what was the pilot did he ever no of course not so there was no script at all how soon after you met Schwimmer did you start improvising being his wife I mean on camera immediately oh my god and we'd met once in an audition and then suddenly we had to be. And I couldn't do anything to please the director. She just I mean, I'm sure she would agree with me now if she was here and would say that she just absolutely hated me.

Why do you think she did so so there was this scene for instance just by way of example she the the waitress came along and put the bill down and i handed it to schwimm my husband because you know he was my husband and i thought it would just be funny, I won't look at it, I'll just give it to him to pay. Yeah, yeah. You know, whatever, it's just a thing. It's nice detail. Cut. And she came over to me and said,

look, you have to look at the bill. When the bill's put down, I was like, okay. I didn't know that, because there isn't a script. We'll go again. Went again. The bill was put down in front of me. I looked at it, and then i handed it to him cut so i'd got that wrong she said look at the bill look at the amount on it it's a large amount

isn't it we had to go again and i had to react oh that's that's a lot of money and what she wanted was the scene to be about how much money was on the bill you know and for everyone to react that the bill was large but I I don't know how I was supposed to know that and so what it felt like was that I was continually being set up for a fall yeah I had just such a terrible experience on that obviously and it is no exaggeration to say that I cried myself to sleep every night. I would go back to this hotel. Oh, my God. And they put me up in the Trump Hotel.

Oh, my God. And I'd get back to my room. Every night they'd done that turndown service thing. And there'd be like two pairs of slippers on each side of the bed. And there would be like a bottle of um brandy on ice and two glasses every single night and and sort of some like sex music cold play um snow patrol um and uh and then i would just i would just cry and go to sleep and then get up and go in in the morning and basically long story short when I got home I had a total meltdown

obviously yeah yeah because I was like who am I I'm shit at my job I can't do this this woman hates me and then I came back and um my gallbladder exploded inside my body oh mate and I had to go to hospital what's that like the best thing ever because well it didn't quite explode nearly where's the old gallbladder that's um above your liver and so I had this sort of physical I think it was just a real physical reaction to the stress and that meant that I had to go into hospital for a week. And that was just, I remember thinking as I came around from my operation, sipping my cup of morphine. Oh, this is so fucking nice. I love this.

I'm just going to get to lie here in this cozy bed. What's it like when your gallbladder explodes? How does that feel? Well, no, I have exaggerated exaggerated it exploded as it was removed from my body as it was trying to escape yeah so it was they said it exploded on the table as they got it out they all had to duck so I had been having such horrific attacks of abdominal pain. And then it was only because we were in production and there was, you know, they have to look after you on TV sets. Yeah, yeah.

They have to get you doctors and things and they have to get a diagnosis. Yeah. So, you know, this private doctor gave me an ultrasound and they were like, oh, you've got a really hot gallbladder it's called oh that's awful and then out it comes yeah i mean i don't know why i'm talking about this i asked you yeah well i guess i have made my peace with the whole period of of making drifters how do you look back on it now then i mean could you have done things differently yeah i have thought about that and i think if i'd have had more confidence and artistic integrity at the time would i have would i feel happier about the work

that i'd created but maybe i just am still not smart enough oh no i do i do think maybe it's just you know it's not i or i probably wouldn't have got a second series if i'd have really made the show that i if you thought i wanted to make because i was sitting in meetings with directors using words like well i just want it to be sort of verite really and they were going sure sure sure sure sure you do i mean have you talked to other people other friends in the industry you've had similar experiences other women particularly i don't know anyone who hasn't had a bad experience actually yeah it's a shame that really isn't it i'm trying to think of someone who's had a good experience i think it's so hard to get it right because you've firstly you've got to have the right team around you.

I wonder if I don't know sometimes I think if you're kind of an auteur people can identify that. And so they work to support you rather than and I do know people who are like that and function like that rather than somebody who might have a weaker idea of what they want their show to be for instance something like fleabag yeah it began as a state and it's actually so much great comedy does it began as a stage show and it was so clear what that show was sort of proof of concept yeah yeah girls began as tiny furniture i'm slowly starting to realize that the diy way is the best way yeah yeah i think it is i mean if you take if you take sort of the mainstream out of the equation then your chances of being able to do what you want and have it work out

somewhere close to what you were imagining do go up quite a bit, I think. Yeah. And the other thing is that, yeah, it's all about control, I suppose, to a large degree, isn't it? And it seems to me that the people who consistently make the most interesting stuff or the best stuff are often working with a lot of the same people over and over again. So the environment is controlled and predictable. And there's a shorthand there. People understand each other. They know what they like. They know what they don't like.

So your chances of getting what you want on screen is just that much better. Yeah. But it's sort of also being able to experiment. And I think it's very rare to just begin and it's perfect. You know, the first thing you make is perfect and everybody loves it. I mean, most people have a few flops first, don't they? Yeah. It's just whether or not.

And I don't want to say that, oh, it's because I'm a woman. But I do think it's harder for women to have failure and recover from it. I do see more mediocre output from men repeatedly before they're given the opportunity to succeed. Because I think it's just so, but is that, I don't know, is that fair? Yeah, I think you're probably right. I mean, I don't know. That world seems so distant to me now. Right.

Why did you stop? Well, I didn't really ever stop. You know, every now and again, someone will say, hey, I like your stuff. You should do a thing. And I go, yeah, OK, great. But then it just then it just hits a wall, I think. I mean, I don't know why. A few of the things I've done were absolutely rubbish. But then I did a couple of things that I thought, yeah, that was OK. That worked out quite well, actually. I did a thing in 2014 called Adam Buxton's shed of Christmas. And it was not, it wasn't like what I would choose to do if I could do anything in the world, but it was fairly close to a thing that I thought was quite good. It was just me in my shed. And I, it was a combination of things I like doing

reading out some YouTube comments. Uh, there's a bit of animation that had been done for a little sketch I'd done Tim Key came along read some poems uh Gaz Coombs from Supergrass played a song in the shed where can we find this yeah it's on Sky if you've got Sky I think you can call it up was it a Sky Arts thing yeah yeah and it was one of those things where you know it all came together quite easily. And it was Seamus who produces this podcast, was working with me on that. And it was really fun. And it was a company called Burning Bright that did it.

And it was a laugh. And it just sort of plopped out. And I was really happy with it. And I watched it back not that long ago. And actually, you know know there's always stuff where you think oh that's oh dear that's a shame but not that much most of it was like yeah that's not too bad i think the channel liked it and they said great let's do loads more of these i was like okay and i you know you write a whole list of here's some other ones we could do and then it

just you know you don't hear anything for a couple of months and then they go in another direction that's just the way yeah i think to a degree you have to play the game right at a certain point it's not good enough you just being a sort of amiable so and so who's quite good every now and again you have to plug away and you have to humiliate yourself a little bit you have to put yourself out there yeah probably you have to be on social media you have to you know you have to tick some boxes you have to you have to make yourself visible you have to make yourself a person that if your name is brought up in a meeting everyone's going to go oh yeah i

know them yeah and you know do all that and and And I just never had the will to do that really. But how do you feel now, like years after that period of your life? Do you feel like you're still someone that is tortured by your expectations and how you would like things to be and how difficult it is to match those? No, not, I mean, i feel so far away from that i honestly um i i i feel genuinely very very happy as a person i have regrets and i look back on my time and i ruminate right and i also get absolutely furious about things but on the whole the the anxiety is so manageable now and so minor and I really do I'm genuinely so grateful that for that period of my life because

I really did have to turn it around and the biggest thing to come out of it I suppose if I can be really cheesy about this is just that I had put so much focus on external validation yeah as a lot of performers do I think and now I just don't get my validation from those it's nice but it's a bonus I don't really get it from that anymore and I think that's a lot to do with just growing up and having a family and all of that other stuff but I like my job and I'm well I love it actually I genuinely love the writing process I love sitting in my sad little room I'm by my sad little self coming up with my stories and almost to a fault it doesn't matter to me if anybody sees them or not and maybe a little bit of me has been slightly hiding away because i'm scared that if i put myself out there any more than i have been doing like I'm I think I put myself out there at a very sort of safe level

that something bad might happen to me again so that I suppose in a way yes and no like yes because I'm managing it and I'm not like I haven't got a show I mean I have got a show but it's not mine it's Romesh Ranganathan's avoidance avoidance and we've just made the second series of that and i'm in it as well and wrote to you i wrote i was in the writer's room and wrote two episodes but it's not mine so i don't have to the pressure i don't yeah i don't have to fear the criticism or anything and it's not like i wouldn't be affected by it i would think romesh is a fun guy to work with or something like that as well great he's a great guy i haven't seen romesh for a long

time i hope i'm gonna see him soon you won't probably you're not gonna see him he's never gonna you're never gonna see him again i mean that i hope you i hope you're working with him on something because he is a crazy level of productivity yeah well i've got my theories but would you aspire to that level of sort of visibility and productivity? I mean, I personally would not. I don't think so, thank you. I don't, because I want to, and this is no disrespect to Romesh, but I do love hanging out with my family.

I love being at home. But he, the thing that I heard about him is that he's very strict with his office hours is this true because I said to him like how are you how are you still married given the amount of work you do and how often you must be away and he's like no I structure it quite carefully so that I do go home every I don't mean I only saw what I, I mean, I, you know, when you're filming, you don't, you can't go home, can you? I know that he, when he tours, he goes home every night and he only tours in places that are close by. Down the road. Yeah. So.

He should just build a stadium. Like the Haber Stadium. Yeah. He should just build a stadium. Like the Haber Stadium. Yeah, and his house is just around behind the back of that. And then he does his live shows in the stadium for a few months and then they switch it to TV studios. That's such a good idea, the Romesh Ranga Stadium. And then he does like a film there around around august why hasn't anyone done that before the kind of um elon musk approach to entertainment One of the last times I saw you

was doing Richard Herring's podcast in 2017. Oh, yeah. At the Leicester Square Theatre. And you were pregnant with your first human child. That's right. My first child, who is, yes, now six. Great. It was a very...

I enjoyed having babies. having i enjoyed having babies i have enjoyed having babies i have enjoyed it goes it goes without saying and yet i say it a lot you're like liz truss making a statement that was very truss wasn't it i like i like i enjoyed there are babies that I do enjoy and have enjoyed. Oh, God, don't. I don't know what I am. It's almost actually it's quite a weird gear switch. I think I compartmentalize motherhood and work. Yeah.

And it's such a different part of my life because i think when you have kids it has been quite um a shattering of the old identity yeah the old former you know talk about lashtown nappet shagging about being a being a legend she's gone when did she go she hasn't completely gone i'll be honest in amsterdam last week on the 40th she uh she reared her ugly head um but i don't know yeah yeah it's it's been um it's been a bit of a ride actually it's been so massive and i find it so glorious and so crushing at the same time yeah i think that's a very fair encapsulation of the experience of having children i call it when i first had a baby i started calling it the magical nightmare that's the film let's start writing it are you back in bingley now is that right wow no i'm in a town called ilkley oh yeah she may be aware of because you know it has its own anthem

yeah does it what's the anthem ilkley more butter no i mean that does ring a very small bell, but you're going to have... On Ilkley Moor, Bartat. On Ilkley Moor, Bartat. On Ilkley Moor, Bartat. Right, so you don't know the song, but you just sang along anyway. That's joining in. So musical, you can just do that. Yeah, yeah. Are there any other lyrics?

Yes. Well, the song is about... So do you know what Ilkley Moor, Bartat means? No. No? Well, it means on ilkley moore without a hat ah um and then the verse is something like um that it goes thou thou's been a caught in mary jane on ilkley moore bartatat. It's about smoking marijuana.

No, you've been on a date with Mary Jane. Yeah, yeah. Not marijuana. There was no way they were importing marijuana at the beginning of, well, 1900. Sounds like they might have been. When do you think, you know, the English folk scene really began to thrive? English folk songs. Well, I'm thinking of fishermen people now going,

and I would think that they would have been doing that for ages. Absolutely ages. It's just been forever. People always have sung folk songs. Could be. You know, think of all those guys prancing around with their lutes. I mean, yeah. I rolled myself

a wonderful joint upon the moor last night. I smoked it but I got a whitey and it gave me a fright. Tea. for i was ghostly on the doobie and i fell on my ass next time i'm offered smoky pokey maybe i shall pass that kind of thing. That's a traditional folk song.

1850s to 1870s. I absolutely loved that, by the way. But I was googling Ilkley Moor Vartat at the same time. Yeah, it took ages to write it. It was so good. They were working on it for 20 years. They got, you know, they went to

they went down the studio. Guys, how's Ilkley Moor Vartat coming? We're nearly there, but we need 10 more years. Because at the moment we've got Mary Jane, a reference to marijuana, but we don't know where to go from there. I just bumped into you at the supermarket. I was backing out of a parking space and I hit your car. I'm sorry.

I didn't mean to. But you're angry now, very angry now. And that's making me very angry too. No, fuck you. And your mother too uh uh that's a noise i make Have you got any noises that you do? Yes. I have a really annoying noise that I picked up from school. Oh, yeah.

In my school, if someone was being nerdy, the whole class would go. We did that too. Yeah. So if someone achieved something. Yeah. Really. There was just a heckle of eee. I was telling my friend about this and he said, oh yeah, at my school it was vvvv. Do it again.

Isn't that great? Vvvv. I think I've seen that one as well. Kids are so mean, aren't they? And so you couldn't, you know, if you were going to be a geek, then you would get a heck of, you know, you'd get a chorus of eee at my school. But I'm still friends with quite a lot of my school friends.

And whenever they do something nerdy. Yeah. Like one of my friends is an astrophysicist. Okay. imagine how much she gets in one conversation from her 40 year old friends yeah she's just because that must have come from what do you reckon like a sitcom or something no no i don't i don I think it's more ancient. I think, well, I think possibly the evolution of it at my school was, as it often is, it was just a condensing.

We had a teacher, a CDT teacher, who would get heckled. What's CDT? Craft Design and Technology. You know, the guy you make the, you'd make a wooden fish mounted on a wooden board sure yeah you know um and he was called cyril taylor was his name so may he rest in peace he'll definitely be dead because he was um but we all used to call him cyril sneer because of what would that cartoon be now? Do you know what? Cyril Sneer from, there was a cartoon with a character called Cyril Sneer in it.

And so everyone used to go, Cyril Sneer, like that. And I think Sneer, Cyril Sneer, because he was, I just think it was an evolution from Cyril Sneer. No, because everyone had it. We had that at my school. Well, you had E. You didn't my school. Well, you had E.

You didn't have E. Yeah, we had E. E. E. So you do the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You did exactly the same sound. Exact same noise.

And it's just the sound of a geek, isn't it? E, yes. E. Also, we had a teacher, Stuart Murray. E, you see. Boxton, you're lazy, you're idle. Was he Mancunian? Yeah, I guess.

Is that Mancunian? Sounded it, yeah. He was, and he was a full bully. He has left the planet. They wouldn't get away with it now and um joe cornish emailed me the other day because he was reading a biography whose was it it was um it was um your call is very important to us. You carry on filling. On il clema batat.

Adam Buxton will be with you in a moment. Carrying on. Thou'st been a-carting Mary Jane. Thou'st been a-carting Mary Jane. On. You are second in the queue here we go that was good you used to work at a call centre

so I did that was good skills you picked up Andrew Lloyd Webber Joe Cornish was reading Andrewrew lloyd weber's diary diary memoir yeah which is called unmasked from 2018 i think joe said he was reading it for research for some project he was working on anyway andrew lloyd weber went to the same school that we did really westminster school for arrogant young men in central. Oh, that one. And we found this reference to the PE teacher that we had who was called Stuart Murray. Get up the rope.

Come on, get up the rope. Andrew Lloyd Webber says, For your first two weeks at the new Emporium, i.e. Westminster School, you were allocated a boy a year older than you who was tasked with sympathetically demonstrating the niceties of the institution in which you were to spend the next few years. In fact, you were regaled with tales of the headmaster's legendary beatings and the sadistic antics of the gym master, Stuart Murray. I was familiar with this bastard, says Andrew Lloyd Webber. He had practiced minor

versions of his craft at Westminster Underschool, which was the sort of one before. And he drilled into me a loathing of exercise and sport that was only partially sorted out by a Californian swimming instructress called Mimosa in the 1970s. I don't think I'm vindictive by nature, but when I read in the school magazine one morning years later that Mr Murray had died, I wrote two tunes and had a bottle of wine for lunch.

Wow. Says Andrew Lloyd Webber. Eh, you see. And that's what you get. You see, nappy, you're idle, lazy. That's your problem. So that's the noise he made, but it's a different, it's different to the nerd noise. What was the question?

The question was, do you have any noises that you make? Because the noise I do is, but what was the noise I made? It was like. Oh yeah, because you were trying to find the questions and then you said. I do my sort of pirate noise. That's not exactly it. But my children tease me for doing the noise as well. For doing your thinking noise.

Yeah. Are you still, do you still do massages? Oh my God. Is that, is that why I'm here well this does my back just my right shoulder a little weinstein give you a nice wheezy laugh there just to it's getting dark and you've just asked me if i'll give you a massage i didn't say will you give me a mask i said do you still do them slightly different um okay so the answer to that is yes but not professionally something slightly batshit that i've been doing lately

because of having a midlife crisis is reiki oh magnets what isn't it magnets no it's it's a japanese relaxation technique i know i've heard of reiki but i thought there was magnets involved there's no magnets involved no i'm not not the type i get slash give maybe i was thinking of magnetic re I mean, I understand why people think it's bollocks. Well, what is it? I mean, it is... Well, what you have to do is a certain kind of meditation every day. It's a bit like...

Have you ever heard of qigong or tai chi? Yeah. I did tai chi for the first time over the last holidays. And? I thought it was bullshit. I did think it was bullshit. But I really liked it. And it was just funny.

I mean, it's like, you know, it's like you're doing, it's like yoga, isn't it? To a certain degree. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you're stretching your body and you're breathing deeply. All things, you know, it's all good for you, isn't it? And it's nice and relaxing. And the thing is, Reiki is even less than that. Like, it's even harder to believe that it works.

And the only reason I believe it works is because I've had it done to me so many times now and have really felt the difference. so then i got quite into the idea then i accidentally went to a qigong class that i thought was going to be a yoga class accidental qigong made us do these all these exercises where we had to like move the energy around our bodies yes and then we had to hold the energy ball then we had have you done the energy ball yes and then could you feel it no everyone else was like

I had a ball I had a ball did you have a ball it was such a ball that I was scared to drop it wow and I didn't want and then she

she said to put it down or put it away and I didn't want to so explain for people not familiar with this how you get to the point where you are holding an energy ball well I guess down or put it away and i didn't want to so explain for people not familiar with this how you get to the point where you are holding an energy ball well i guess there's movements that you do and you're kind of bringing energy into your body when you're doing qigong by the way

that you're moving your body and there's a lot of sort of like bouncing up and down and like brushing things off and and then if you stretch your arms out really wide and slowly bring them in yes which is what you do but you're also imagining beams of light in reiki you are well i don't know i haven't well this is tai chi so in tai chi in the tai chi session i did you're imagining a beam of light connecting you from the sky. It's coming down through your head and it's going down through your feet into the earth. And so you're on a kind of continuum of energy. And then throughout the class,

and she's saying things like, at one point she said, now I have to pause because I'm absorbing a lot of energy from the group and it's very overwhelming to me. Okay, now let's carry on. Now we're going to go with the, we're going to swim with the dragon and the dragon is your negative energy. And some people don't like to swim with the dragon because they don't believe that you should encourage

negative energy. But we're going to swim with the dragon because we will be respectful to the dragon. We're going to take the dragon for a swim. Hands together. Bend your knees and take the dragon down to the bottom of the ocean. Anyway, there was a lot of that. And then at the end of it, she said, now gather all the energy. And it's like you're shaping it with your hands into a sphere. And you're really imagining that you are holding this powerful ball of energy that and it's such

a powerful feeling that you can almost see it she was saying and then there were people i was doing the class with who were going oh my god oh my god oh my god i'm seeing the energy yeah so maybe those people were just imagining it but even if they were i mean yes whether they right so you think definitely they were imagining it yes i mean there's no real energy ball i don't think anyone had an actual energy ball i don't think that obviously there's no way you can measure it but you did no i i just i i whatever my imagination is is uh yeah i believe that they felt the energy i think there is such a thing as being able to feel a certain non-corporeal energy metaphysical energy every now and again you can definitely feel that kind of thing and if you focus it mentally, then yeah, you could feel a sort of magic ball. I mean, I sort of think that love is kind of like that.

This is going to be good for the end of the podcast. Come on, let's go. Well, you can feel it and you know it's there. But you can't see it and you can't touch it. But I'm not imagining it. And so I think in a way it feels a lot like that when you get really good Reiki. It feels, you feel just kind of like you're being loved. So maybe that's all it is sure um and i and i think that that's also i just think that the more you can bring that into your life the better

so that's why i'm into it but what if it was possible to use the force of love... To charge phones. To... No. What if it is possible to move it around and pass it on to someone else? Hmm. Just by standing next to them. What if it is possible?

Then Reiki is real. Oh, right, okay. Then Tai Chi is real. Then, you know, that's what the energy is that they're talking about. What I'm saying to you is... Have you seen Star Wars? I know, yeah. What I'm saying...

That's actually what's happening, Jess, is you're repeating the plot of Star Wars to me on a podcast and describing it as Reiki. So... Do you know Ben Kenobi? No, I know how i sound listeners i want to describe to you my face which is non-sarcastic when jess was saying all that stuff about balls and love i was not doing a face i was no you weren't doing a face i because i didn't need to I like it I believe in it and I think I believe in it and I believe we need more of it

to counteract the hate do you think this is going to sound sarcastic but it's not meant to be because of course the big problem with all this is getting

sceptical people to indulge it because it sounds... Absolutely batshit, whack-a-doodle, I get it. You know, outside of the goop universe... I know, I know. It's difficult to get some people to take it seriously. Especially the people who most need to take it seriously.

You know what I mean? Like, I don't think Donald Trump is going to be doing any of this stuff and i think that he could really benefit from it maybe i'm wrong i don't want to harshly judge donald uh maybe he does it every day work on him you don't reckon maybe not i don't know but if it was true that you could make it as literal as you're talking about where you could gather up an energy ball of pure love and if it was possible to transfer it from one person to another do you reckon you could just walk past someone like donald trump and just lob it at him um i know people who think you can oh really and um the problem is you have to be able and ready to receive love don't you listen i am down

for it it's um it has been i honestly have to say and that i i am i what i think is good is to have a little tiny smattering of something like this in your life just something to believe in that's bigger than yourself whether that's aliens or a bit of religion or whatever do you know the philip larkin poem an arundel tomb uh recite it well the famous philip larkin poem obviously is they fuck you up your mom and dad this be the verse is the name of that they fuck you up your mom and dad poem and unfortunately it was written after an arundelel tomb, which is a more hopeful poem. I mean, this be the verse really is... Are you familiar with the poem?

The Arundel one? No, this be the verse. No. I don't think so. I don't know. Well, the last line is, get out as early as you can and don't have any kids yourself. Oof.

I mean, I think it's supposed to be funny but it's also not funny and there's also a sort of streak of um sincerity in there which is quite chilling and uh but it's a shame because an arerundel tomb, which he wrote about, you know, sort of 15 years before that, is very sentimental for Larkin. Anyway, it's about him going into a church and seeing a kind of marble effigy on a tomb plinth thing, a sort of stone carving of a lord and his wife and they're lying side by side and larkin is struck by the fact that they're holding hands and he's very moved by that and their their feet their features have been worn down by time you know and everything but but yet they're still there and they're holding hands. And the last line is, what will survive of us is love. And so it's the line that people use when people say, oh, Philip Larkin, God, he was depressing. And he said, well, he could be nice.

But as I say, that was early on. It wasn't get out as early as you can, don't have any kids yourself, which was where he was at a little while later. But, you know writing from a place of hurt but you could still they both of those things are true well that's the thing isn't it it's like if you put your finger on something that is true i think that it transcends who you are where the world is at what anyone says or does or however your life goes you know what i mean i think you can if someone nails a little nugget of pure truth then you can separate that from them and everything else and it lives on even if that same person says 10 years or 15 years or however long you know that thing i said before i didn't mean it yeah

but love love never dies and if it doesn't then there's loads of it isn't there knocking about where is it all wow we've really ended up in quite a uh i love talking about love oh that's just broken my dream i'm not, that's just broken my dream. I'm not joking. That's just broken my dream. From last night? Which part? I had a dream last night that I kept having to get naked.

And that dream is going to come true. My shoulder's getting sore. Yeah. And I kept being like, oh, God, I've got got to get naked and then as I took my clothes off again and people were there my old friend my school friend Will was sitting in the corner as I pulled my top down and he was very clearly supposed to look away and I said Will why aren't you looking away and he just went that's one for the wank bank I had my tits out and then I looked in the mirror and i was like fucking hell i've got great tits i don't have great tits unfortunately but

i did in my dream they were the tits of my dreams ladies and gentlemen Wait, this is an advert for Squarespace. Every time I visit your website, I see success. Yes, success. The way that you look at the world makes the world want to say yes. It looks very professional. I love browsing your videos and pics and I don't want to stop. your members area and spend in your shop these are the kinds of comments people will say about your website if you build it with Squarespace just visit Squarespace.com slash Buxton for a free trial and when you're ready to launch because you will want to launch use the

offer code Buxton to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. So put the smile of success on your face with Squarespace. Yes. Continue. Hey, welcome back, podcats. That was Jessica Knappett talking to me there. It was great fun hanging out with Jessica. And I hope that from now on, she will consider herself a friend of the podcast and always welcome.

I wanted to tease a forthcoming guest, which normally I wouldn't do because I'm not that organized, but basically I'm going to put out one more podcast after this one and then press pause in order to get some more writing done and also get my ducks in a row for the live podcasts and then I will try and put out a few more episodes in the summer in late June July and then take another little break and then come back in the autumn that's the plan so I think one of the episodes that I hope to put out, either in the summer or in autumn, will be with the mighty John Cooper Clarke. Poet, movie star, rock star, TV and radio presenter, comedian, social and cultural commentator, and Britain's best-loved and most important performance poet. That's according to his website. But I would agree. I had a very enjoyable ramble with Dr. John

Cooper Clark in a studio in Colchester a few weeks back. It was very good fun to spend a few hours in John's company. And I would recommend the experience, which you can have too, by going to see John when he is touring around the country this year. He's doing a load of shows all over Europe, in fact. There's details on his website. There's a link in the description. And he also has a brand new collection of poetry out, which is called What? And it is filled, as ever, with examples of Dr. John Cooper Clarke's typically mordant wit and insight and linguistic invention. I went to see Dune 2 this week with my daughter and my wife and quite enjoyed it.

I think I might have liked the first one a bit better. Do you know what? I liked might have liked the first one a bit better. Do you know what? I liked the costumes in the first one. I just thought they were terrific. And I liked that scene towards the beginning of the first one where they had all the different emissaries from the different planets and the families, and it reminded me of the ceremony at the Vatican

where they swear in the new Pope's wearing. And the new Dune movie is a little bit more sandy. Also, the bombast level of the music got to me a little bit. That's the sound of Hans Zimmer. It's good. I'm not complaining. It's good, epic stuff. But it's just a lot, and it goes on for a long time.

That's becoming a cliche now, isn't it? To say, oh, films, why are they so long? But they still are. So I think that's okay to say. I refuse to be shamed for wishing that all films were about an hour shorter. Anyway, it was good fun. And I also liked Javier Bardem's noises that he makes to communicate with the rest of the Fremen out in the desert. to communicate with the rest of the Fremen out in the desert. It makes a special sound that's a little bit like a squeaky fart. Let's see if I can have a go.

No, it's not like that. I apologise, that's not Couth. One thing, though, for a film that's called June 2, why didn't they just wait a few months and release it on June 2nd? Has that joke been made so many times on social media? I apologise if it has. I don't look at social media. June 2nd. Yes.

Thank you very much indeed once again to Jessica Knappett for waffling with me and being such fun company. Thank you to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for his invaluable production support and conversation editing. Thank you to all at ACAST for all their hard work.

Thanks to Helen Green. She does the artwork for the podcast. But thanks most of all to you. Look, I really appreciate you coming back. I know that you have many, many choices in the podcast world. And as I watch the sun sink beneath the hazy Norfolk horizon, I'd like to, if you don't mind, just give you a non-creepy hug. Come here. Hey, great to see you. next time please go carefully

it's treacherous out there and bear in mind for what it's worth I love you BYE Bye! Nice take a pint with me bums up Like and subscribe Like and subscribe Like and subscribe Please like and subscribe Give me like a smile and a thumbs up

Nice take a pint with me bums up Give me like a smile and a thumbs up Nice take a pint with me bums up Please like and subscribe Like and subscribe Please like and subscribe Please like and subscribe Please like and subscribe ស្រូវាប់ប់ប្រូវាប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប� Thank you.