THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.228 - DR JOHN COOPER CLARKE

Episode Date: October 13, 2024

Adam talks with poet, raconteur and punk scion, Dr John Cooper Clarke about why he hated the Matrix, TV watching habits, resisting the internet, local vs global problems, where John got his look, the Velvet Underground, what a night in with Nico was like, the movie idea that will one day make John a millionaire and much else.CONTAINS VERY STRONG LANGUAGE, REFERENCES TO DRUG USEThis conversation was recorded face-to-face on 9th February, 2024Thanks to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell for production support and conversation editing.Podcast artwork by Helen GreenThanks to Tom Donovan StudioPics of me and John @ adam-buxton.co.ukRELATED LINKSREASONS TO BE CHEERFUL WEBSITEJOHN COOPER CLARKE WEBSITE - TOUR DATES ETC.EVIDENTLY JOHN COOPER CLARKE (DOCUMENTARY) - 2012 (DAILY MOTION)JCC ON DESERT ISLANDS DISCS - 2019 (BBC SOUNDS)JCC - READER'S WIVES (OLD GREY WHISTLE TEST) - 1978 (YOUTUBE)JCC - MAJORCA - 1976 (YOUTUBE)JCC - WHAT'S IN MY BAG - 2016 (YOUTUBE)JCC - SUGAR PUFF AD - 1988 (YOUTUBE)JCC - BACK AT THE SCANDAL SCHOOL, DUBLIN - 1986 (YOUTUBE)JCC - MAVIS NICHOLSON AFTERNOON PLUS INTERVIEW - 1979 (YOUTUBE)ARCTIC MONKEYS - I WANNA BE YOURS (LIVE) - 2014 (YOUTUBE)THE VELVET UNDERGROUND - SISTER RAY - 1968 (YOUTUBE) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening I took my microphone and found some human folk Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke My name is Adam Buxton, I'm a man I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan. Hey, how you doing, Podcats? It's Adam Buxton here. I'm reporting to you from a field out in East Anglia, UK in the county of Norfolk. It's the middle of October 2024. It's overcast out here and earlier

today when I was on my bike it was absolutely freezing. Rosie is once again staying home today. Just the sight of the dog walking harness was enough to set her flanks quaking. She is still not forgiven me for taking her out on a walk a few weeks back and promising her that there wouldn't be any loud noises from the bird-scaring gun and as I was promising her the gun went off quite close to where we were walking and I think it's going to take a while for me to regain her trust. She's been going out getting her exercise with her mum, running in another part of the world around here, but I really do miss her on my walks

around these parts. Anyway, hopefully she'll be back before too long, otherwise she's very well. Oh, it's raining now. Okay, that's probably an indication that I should get on with the introduction, and we do have a lot to get through. It's quite a long chat this week for podcast number 228, which features a very rambling conversation with poet, raconteur and punk scion Dr John Cooper Clark. Cooper Clark facts. John was born in 1949 in the northwestern industrial city of Salford. After a largely happy but far from cushy childhood, which included a bout of the old-school killer lung disease tuberculosis, John parlayed his love of words, movies and TV

to become a pioneer of the poetical stand-up comedy genre. I think that's fair to say. I mean, he's a poet primarily. But there's a lot of comedy elements in what John does. After serving his time in Northern Working Men's Clubs, having been given a break by comedian Bernard Manning, John connected with an increasingly appreciative audience in venues where punk music was taking hold in the second half of the 1970s, and John's rapid-fire delivery, idiosyncratic look, and street lexicon made him a good fit to appear alongside legendary acts that included Buzzcocks, The Fall, The Clash, Sex Pistols, Susie and the Banshees, The Ramones, Richard

Hell and the Voidoids, and Joy Division, to name but a few. It was Joy Division's producer, Martin Hannett, who set John's poetry to music played by The Invisible Girls, a band made up of members of Manchester Stars, Buzzcocks and the Dorutti Column, on a short run of albums that included 1980's Snap, Crackle and Bop. That was the album that featured Cooper Clark, Bangerz, Beasley Street and evidently Chickentown, aka the one that got used on The Sopranos on the penultimate episode of that show. You remember this one. Yeah, that one. my voice is different you might be able to hear i'm recording this the day after and cutting it into the intro don't tell anyone although the 80s began with john's career heading in the right direction trouble was brewing in the form of an

addiction to heroin that had taken hold a couple of years earlier. Moving in rock and roll addict circles was what brought John into contact with Velvet Underground singer Nico, who was, for a few months in the early 80s, a housemate of John's when he was living in Brixton, South London. And though he was still performing and bringing in money with impressively weird Sugar Puffs TV ads in the late 80s, he didn't write anything new for nearly a decade. He finally got off the drug in the early 90s, thanks in large part to the support of his partner Evie, whom John eventually married in 2018. Back to previously recorded intro with different voice. But his elder statesman phase began perhaps in 2013 when he was awarded an honorary

Doctorate of Arts by Salford University in acknowledgement of a career that has spanned five decades, bringing poetry to non-traditional audiences and influencing musicians and comedians. That same year Sheffield band the Arctic Monkeys released their album AM which included the track I Wanna Be Yours based on the John Cooper Clarke poem of the same name, a poem that Monkeys lead singer Alex Turner had first encountered as part of his GCSE poetry syllabus in the early 2000s. The Arctic Monkeys song helped keep the poem and John's work in general alive for a whole new generation of fans. Nowadays, as well as continuing to tour his live shows, most recently reading from his

latest collection, What?, John has become a familiar face on British TV comedy panel shows and on the airwaves via appearances on BBC Six Music and Radio 4, where in 2019 he made a memorable castaway on Desert Island discs. My conversation with John was recorded back in early February of this year, 2024, not far from where he lives in Colchester in the county of Essex, England. We met in a great little recording studio, Tom Donovan Studios, tucked away behind a garage and an office furniture shop in a pretty village on the banks of the River Cone. And studio owner Tom was on hand to make tea and record the session. Both much appreciated.

Thanks Tom. When we met, I had been re-listening to John's memoir, also called I Wanna Be Yours published in 2020. That was a crucial part of cheering me up in dark pandemic times towards the end of 2020 and I wanted to ask him about some of the people he's encountered and the many moments of punk history he's been part of as well as other specific incidents in his madly eventful life all detailed in that brilliant book. But as soon as he stepped into the studio in herringbone tweed jacket and giant paperboy cap looking like an etiolated Don Letts and greeted me warmly, it was clear that this was going to be very much an old-school ramble, including from the start and throughout very strong language. There are also references to drug taking and the purchase of illegal drugs

from jazz legends. And to begin with shocking disrespect for sci-fi classic The Matrix. So please be aware on all counts. I'll be back at the end to say goodbye, but right now with Dr John Cooper Clark. Here we go. conversation, quote and quite, you're talking at... Yes, yes, yes! La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la I tell you what I really hated the matrix films like that. Why did you hate the matrix? Everything in it was fucking is it or isn't it and everybody was wearing black PVC every surface was black and reflective there were lights, it was like being locked in an amusement arcade for longer than you planned, you know what I mean? It was horrible, horrible sensory onslaught, I thought. Also they did a weird colour grade on it so that everything looked green. It was black and green was the colour palette, because it was supposed to be like a computer display and I

It didn't blow your mind you weren't thinking oh my god Is this all a dream? People have been looking for fucking months before I finally capitulated All right, you know somebody even brought it right? No. No, you've got to see this You know it was it won't take in nine for an answer. You've got to see this. I'm going to bring it round and I'm going to sit there and watch it with you. I couldn't even bluff my way out of it and say, yeah, I watched it for 20 minutes, not my thing. Thanks anyway. You know, it, no, it fucking made sure I sat through it. That was the That was the fucking awful and I've never seen anything where canoe Reeves was believable anyway

So to put him in such a preposterous situation I just thought I was wasting my time and I've never felt like that in a movie Yeah, I've always thought even if I don't like this. It's never a waste of time But that case I did I thought isn't there something could my time not more profitably be spent in reading the works of child marks and Frederick angels for example what the hell? I've got 90 minutes back I'm approaching my deathbed it was longer than 90 minutes you didn't get a kick out of them bending

backwards in slow motion and the bullet time and all the crazy action sequences that had never been seen at that point. No. There was no chicks in it was there? Yeah Carrie-Anne Moss she was great she was kicking all sorts of ass in her big leather boots. I didn't remember it as I've had any chicks in it. Yeah. No, she was good. She was a good female lead. I was gonna have a go at it for its lack of diversity. I think it was What a review, what a review. Are you getting all this or what? We should sit down. Yes, I didn't expect to be talking about The Matrix quite so quickly.

But in my mind, the Matrix was a pivotal moment in modern society. That was the introduction of the whole red pill, blue pill concept, you know, that really is now the backbone of a large part of the internet with people thinking that we're all living in some sort of simulation. Is life real? Is anything real? Can you trust societal institutions? Do you need to take the red pill

and get woken up out of your reverie and face up to what life is really like? For me, that all kicked off with The Matrix. Did you not get any of that out of it? I'm afraid not. I'm afraid not. Sometimes you steal yourself against things, don't you? Yeah. I just thought, it was just that it was an aesthetic judgment really. I kind of

ascertained that this was really aimed at, well you said it, computer owners. Yeah, it was very much that. Which I've never been. So, you know, I think that's possibly the first glimpse of the alienation I suffer from today. Digital disenfranchisement. Absolutely, I do. I mean, you know, I'm aware every day, you know, I suffer the thousand punishments visited upon the analog community. But also you... That's when the realization of this kicked in. You're also basking in the rewards of being disconnected from that world that consumes so much of my life,

going down YouTube rabbit holes and the like. I mean, preparing for this conversation, I've actually had a wonderful time watching a lot of clips of you from back in the like. I mean preparing for this conversation I've actually had a wonderful time watching a lot of clips of you from back in the day. Thanks a lot Adam, but that's the problem with computers and that's why I never got involved in anything. Not from any Luddite point of view really, although there is a little bit of that about it. I don't like automatic checkouts in supermarkets for instance, but that's another issue. But the reason I don't have a computer is because I know how good they are and I know how easily distracted and how... I'm bad enough with the TV. I've never got over the magic of television. I can't turn myself

away and now with a thousand free views. One fabulous program after the other. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, that's bad enough. I just, I couldn't slide a computer into the proceedings. What's your TV regimen? Oh, I love, uh, Anseekh Road Trip. And I like the non-celebrity one. I think, like, Gogglebox. I think the actual normal people version is much better, you know on the celebrity It's a bad idea. I was on with Phil Jupiter's we did a celebrity and seeks road trip together and

You know, we're too funny guys. I didn't think you know for a start. I didn't realize how harsh the Regime is doing that show. I don't know how they keep a happy face on it. Why is it harsh? Well you're up at 7. Have you seen the distances they cover? You only spend one night out, you know, away from home for it. But the distances are outrageous.

You know they go from Cardiff to Berwick up on Sweden. Is this actually, is it called Road, is it a separate thing to Roadshow? Oh yeah yeah, Roadtrip this is. This is experts buying stuff from various antique stores up all around the British Isles and they've done it in Ireland even. Are you interested in antiques? Up to a point, you know I'm not an avid collector of any kind. I said to the wife the other week, you know,

I'm gonna start, I've never seen a vase I don't like. LAUGHS Therefore, I'm gonna start collecting vases. You know, that's the work, that's no reason to go collect. If you've never seen one, can you imagine? A house full of vases. Bad enough now with magazines. But I tell you, they're great. The experts on that show are terrific. Anita Manning, James Braxton.

And especially this one guy, a Scottish guy called Paul Laidlaw, whose area of speciality is military. But he's very good on everything else. But he has a special knowledge of weaponry and swords. Like Lemmy. Yeah, yeah. They would have gone on like a house on fire. Yeah, he knows every little bit of insignia and its significance. Yes. Did you ever hang out with Lemmy? Yeah once or twice yeah you would usually find him in Dingwalls at the bar any time of the day

all night back in the 80s. He seemed like pretty good company. Yeah great yeah talk about anything he would have talked about anything Lemmy. He was an expert in so many things he was always reading several weighty tones at the time. But he was big on military, wasn't he? Now, I want to ask you a couple of things. In fact, somebody bought him a tank for his 50th birthday. Oh, really? A Sherman tank.

What do you get Lemmy for his 50th? A tank? Before we go further, I wanted to ask how you would feel if I gave you a couple of things to Read out that weren't necessarily your own for example Their poem that has now gone out of my head the second coming. Yeah, you know WB 8. Oh, that's great I love that poem. How would you feel about reading that out later on? Yeah, I'll give that a go Okay. Oh, I know is the center cannot. That's the bit that sticks in your mind. Yeah, it would be great throughout our conversation if you could read a few poems if you wouldn't mind. Yeah, that'd be doable. Adam?

I'd love that. And have you got one that you'd like to start with? What out of the new book? Yeah, I've got a few that I particularly like that I was gonna ask you to do, but if you'd like to start with one... Oh, go on, no, I'd be interested to know which ones you'd like. Well... Because I'm not used to any of these, they're totally fresh. Oh, yeah, okay. I've never done them at gigs, really. I really resonated with Rolling News Blues. All right, yep. Yeah, but we know too much yeah well this is the thing this is we're all not careful the Mafia will do us in that'll gag in it there's like there is a theory that the Mafia murdered Einstein he knew too much. You're rolling news blues is it?

Yeah. Right, right. BBC, The Daily Guardian, you choose. This misery soup is on a loop. Rolling news blues. There's nice people doing nice things most of the time. I can't prove it but you've got to believe me, you wouldn't hear it on the public dime. BBC, the Daily Guardian, you choose.

Deep concern could only earn you the role in News Blues. There's never been a better time to be alive. Gratitude is de rigueur. You used to be finished at 65, now it's triple figures. There's one thing fucks it up like gravel in your shoes. The horror, the horror that makes the cuts on the rolling news blues. Thank you. I love it, man. I've had the same sort of thought many times and it's nice to hear it expressed poetically.

We know too much. We know too much. We can't do anything about it. Also the fact that the media is totally governed by the, you know, if it bleeds it leads. Yeah that's it. Well said. Yeah, yeah. I've never heard that one before but very good.

And it can't get out of it. Even in the modern age when we're so clever and nuanced and aware of history, etc., people try to set up positive news story sites and they don't do well. Like, people just gravitate towards the bad stuff and they can't help it. Is it schadenfreude? Yeah, I suppose that's a part of it, isn't it? God, I don't live there. There's, you know, David Byrne of Talking Heads. Yeah. He's got a website called reasons to be cheerful, which is an attempt to Redress the balance redress the balance a little bit and he they publish stories that are somewhat hopeful You know, the idea is not to deny that there are terrible things happening in the world Of course there are there's all these problems that do need to be dealt with and taken seriously not ignored

But you've got to also remind yourself that there are some positive things happening. That's right, exactly. And it's compiled on this website, Reasons to be Cheerful, which I recommend. Oh, I'm a complete escapist, I mean, who knows what the ostrich sees in the sand? You know, we've got ostrich wallpaper. Yeah.

Yeah. For exactly that reason, because my mum was a bit like that. She was very much like, she had a sort of escapist philosophy, I think. And so we got the ostrich wallpaper and her on her. Her on her. Yeah. Wonderful. Where do you go for your injections of joy then?

The television I think is the honest answer to that but I like riding around on the bike. Yeah. You know I've got the bookies a lot on the bike that's the only exercise I get really. I still read newspapers as well so there's my daily trip to the the newsagent Yeah, reacquaint myself with the neighborhood, but that's what I'm always saying Speaking of rolling news, you know, never mind what's happening in Nairobi Keep your eye on the council Yeah, you know what I mean fill a few fucking bottles in. That's right. You bone-idle cunt. Ha ha ha ha. Shhhhhh.

No, you really do have to keep your eye on your neighborhood. After all, isn't that what the environment is? Yeah, I mean... It's not the whole world. It's where you are. That means your neighborhood. It's true, but it's hard for people, you know, if people are sensitive and empathetic and they read this stuff and they are encouraged to consider their own good fortune and, you know, living in the West and having a comparatively cushy life and then you read about how people

are suffering across the other end of the world or even not the other end. What you're saying is that the people in heaven, they can hear the screams of the tormented souls in hell and that's part of the payoff. Do you think they can in heaven? Yeah, yeah, they've got it on a tannoy system. There's a big sign that says, Check your privilege in heaven. Everyone's wandering around feeling a little guilty. Eternity isn't forever, you know.

The staff won't tolerate any abuse. Please treat us with respect. The angels. Hello my friend it's good to see you again. I've got to say you're looking great. I love what you've done with your nipples and your knees. And your shine. Hello my friend, it's good to see you again. I've got to say you're looking great. I love what you've done with your nipples and your knees and your shiny bald paint.

Can you describe how you look today? I mean I'll take a picture of us at the end if you're okay with that. Yeah, sure, yeah. Yip yip yip yip, ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho jacket and a button-down shirt. Well there's more variety to your look than I imagined when I was looking at clips online. Oh yeah. Like the classic John Cooper Clarke look is the white shirt, black tie, black suit jacket, skinny black trousers, Chelsea boots and then your hair teased up and shades. If you type John Cooper Clarke into chat GPT and asked to be shown an image that's what would pop up I know that's great. Yeah, I mean But actually there's a lot more variety and you're obviously into your fashion, right? I wouldn't say I was into fashion

you know, I'm not I'm not at all touched by it in a way because I might I've worn the same kind of clothes since 1965 and I've got to say here, you know, for many years in the eighties and the wilderness years I was often asked for my autograph and deep down I knew that they wouldn't know who I am, you know, and so I used to say, you know, I'm not wrong wood, you know, you know, I was dead right you know that's exactly who they thought I was and that's great because there's no such thing as a coincidence it just shows you're firing on all cylinders. William Burroughs said that. But it was Ron really that dictated

my luck when I saw him at this club in 1965. There was this cellar club I used to go to called the Oasis and you would get all the top bands on there including many times I saw Wayne from Sanoran Mindbenders there and this group called the Birds was on and of course not the Roger McGuinn, I don't mean Roger McGuinn and the rest and Mr Tamarim and etc no no there was an English group called the Birds you know spelt right B-I-R-D-S and I'd heard the record but I'd never seen them, you know, they had a single out called Leaving Here that I think got played on Jukebox

Jury or something, so it's a good number, great riff. So I thought yeah, that kind of thing, so we went to see them and out came the Birds and there's Ron, you know, and you could immediately see why they were called the birds you know with that black crow hairstyle you know and he's a bit beaky like me isn't he you know so I'll let's say you know anyways there were similarities I thought you know he's got a big nose and skinny legs you know and uncontrollable hair you know I'll go in that direction yeah what yeah but you went a lot further in that direction than he ever went.

Pardon? I mean you went a lot further in that direction than he ever went. From a modern vantage point it looks as if you more or less prefigured a look that was then popularized by people like the Jesus and Mary chain or more recently the horrors or pre-conspiracy era Russell Brand and you know Jack Skellington in Tim Burton's Nightmare Before Christmas. Edward Scissorhands. Yeah there you go I feel as if they all owe you a debt. I'm definitely Johnny Depp owes me a favor there. Edward scissorhands. I saw the trailer I was it we were in a movie house me and my wife when it came out, you know

And the trailer came up and I'm what the huh? Nobody told me I'd made a movie And he had the same clobber and everything didn't he black suit white shirt apart from the cutlery. He was a fucking dead ringer Did you ever meet Tim Burton? No. I bet he's a fan. But you know, people are talking about doing a biopic of me at the moment. They're always saying, you know, I always say the same thing, Johnny Depp, he owes me one.

Lose a bit of weight, Johnny. There's a drink in it. Well, this AI now can shave off a few pounds but no I think it was definitely wrong that there was the template for my look you know it's about oh I was talking about this the other day you know when I was at school you know you were a better you were better off being a bit on the chunky side you know every all the pop idols were you know worked out a little bit of course I was a malnourished anemic right off you'd have tuberculosis

yeah that's right yeah be fair so but when George Harrison came along bloody hell mate things changed overnight right there yeah you know you just had to have like skinny legs after that. That's right. And he was very sort of satanine and dark. Yeah, yeah. He was the handsome beetle, let's face it. He was pretty good.

He was the handsome one. And you still have all your hair, right? That's not a weave. I'm not wearing this hat to disguise male pattern baldness. Yeah, that's why I'm wearing mine. I thank God every day for this. Yeah. That's pretty good going.

You can only go to the cruise ships if that happens to you. So what is that down to? I guess that's jeans plus a upbeat disposition. Do you reckon that's got anything to do with it? Psychology, I think it's more genetic. But if people who are in horribly stressful situations can have their hair go white. Oh you're talking about nervous alopecia here. Yeah, yeah, I think that's a thing isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, I suppose that is a psychological input there, your nerves and things like that. But having said this, you know, there's never been a better time for anybody to go bald. Why do you say never been a better time? How's the you know, it's looks like a start your style option Yeah, you know so many people go for that clean look and you know, that's true Yeah, you can just shave go for the buzz cut. You've got cold Jack you'll bring. Yeah. Yeah, Stanley to cheat No one's gonna be Lizzane. Yeah, you know, it doesn't get in your way I was a recently if I would take on a sponsor that was a hair like they sell sort of hair restoring

engines Because I'm getting a little thin on top never been a better time. Yeah, I agree with you One of the reasons I didn't take on this sponsor was because I googled the possible side effects of one of the key ingredients in there. Oh this is the hair restore. Yeah yeah they use something called minoxidil and I mean to be fair to them they very much own all the side effects you go on their website and they're totally straight. They've got to put everything in. Yeah but they're very front foot forward with it and they're like, hey listen, this stuff doesn't always work, but it works a lot. You'd be surprised how good the

results are. Are there side effects? Yeah, there are. And here are some of them. Not everyone will get them, but just so you know, it says, maybe I'll get you to read them out do you mind this might be yeah okay yeah well i'm a doctor people will take notice of me yeah um yes exactly on matters of toxicity it says stop using minoxidil if if blood pressure changes rapid heartbeat new or worsening pain in the chest, dizziness, lightheadedness or fainting, unexplained rapid weight gain of more than 2kg or 5lbs, swelling or puffiness of the hands or feet, persistent redness or irritation of the scalp, minoxidil can cause skin irritation, e.g. local redness, itching, dryness, scalp flaking. Although this might only be a temporary effect, stop using the product if it persists. I mean, that was enough to put me off personally because I was looking at...

I'm glad. If it saves one life... How about music? Is music a reliable source of uplift? I guess it is. I tell you, music and poetry did it best, I think. The Velvet Underground. Oh yeah. You know, because they do have that equal qualities of art and punk about them. You know, you can't say they're not punk. You know, they were junky scumbags from the bad side of New York. They were. punch you know there were junkie scumbags yeah from that from a bad side of New York they were and they were well that was that that was the what they pushed they were actually all quite well qualified and very intelligent people

were aren't they each one of them had interests in other areas other than music didn't they actually speaking of which did you see them play like the reformed version? I did and I wish I had. I certainly wanted to. Something got in the way of it. Maybe it was work. It must have been work or I would have gone. But I went to see them in Manchester when they brought out the album Loaded. Yeah. And it was that great album. But they've got this guy standing in for Lou Reed, haven't they? Billy Ewell. Doug Ewell. Doug Ewell,

yeah, and his brother Billy was in the band as well. Yes, he did something else, yeah, yeah. But Doug Ewell, yeah, was, I went to say about, I can't remember the venue in Manchester, but I was right at the back in the cheap seats and I didn't even know Lou Reed had left the group, you know, I thought that was him. But that's why they picked him, obviously, he looks a bit similar. Because Bowie went to see the Velvet Underground with Doug Yule. Oh did he? Yeah, yeah, it must have been the same year.

Thought that it was Lou Reed. Like afterwards spent about half an hour chatting to Doug Yule and thought that he'd been... I thought he was Lou Reed, yeah that would have been me. ...hanging out with Lou Reed and was absolutely thrilled. That would have been me, I'd have been Lou Reed. And then someone said, oh you know, he's not in the band anymore. Yeah, I got it, I got that. Everybody was telling me what a schmucker I was.

But then Bowie said he didn't mind because in his mind, he'd spent half an hour with Lou Reed and that's all that mattered. It was still a sort of electrifying experience, feeling that excitement. Well, I did that. I love a circular conversation. I did that when I was in, you know, when I had the Ron Wood look. I was in Ireland and I always expected to be mistaken for Ron Wood in Ireland because I knew for a fact that Ron had a, you know, had a gaffe out there. In fact, didn't he have a few racehorses and that?

Plus, he liked the stealth. This is going back a bit, you know, to the nineties. So I was expecting for somebody to say, you know, you're on one. But I was in this eatery there. So I went out for a smoke then. I went outside for a cigarette. And this guy could, I could see this guy, a family of them, one guy, they looked sort of Nordic so one guy kept looking at it so I went outside for a cigarette he followed me out anyway and he comes up to me this Norwegian he was he came up to me he said hey where is she your concierge Elagelo you were great you know and all this so I thought it's gonna

break his heart if I tell him I I thought, what can it hurt? So I played along with it. I couldn't stand to see the look of disappointment on his face by telling him who I really was. Some guy he'd never heard of, some chump. So I played along with it. So I'm like, oh yeah, that was a rocking gig, man. I'll never with it. Yeah, so I'm like, oh yeah, oh slow. That was a guy was a rocking gig man I'll never forget it What something signed so I got you picked the whole

Autograph I don't even know what Ronnie Woods autograph looks like, you know Scrawling I would guess the choice was you know the look of disappointment on his face or send him back to Norway with tales of having At the crack with Ron wood You know, I mean what would you choose you know if I can help somebody As I go on my way Then my living will not be in vain. I think I did the right thing there. I Thought you were gonna say he looked at the scroll and he was like but this does not say John Cooper Clark. Yeah, it could have happened, couldn't it?

No, he was made up with it. I made somebody happy. At last I made somebody happy. Were you a Velvets fan from like... Right from year zero there was about me and six other people that liked them. Everybody hated them, whatever anybody says now, anybody at the time, all those hippies, they fucking hated them. They pissed all over their nice little drug party, didn't they? You know, it's like it's, you know, they come up with the bad side of shit from the East Coast, while all them Laurel Canyon

motherfuckers were all giving it loads. I think they were the kind of distaff voice. Fantastic, great band. The songs are terrific. For years I avoided Sister Ray. I'd play a couple of minutes of it and I'd go, so it's like this for the whole side of the album, right? You know, and yeah I get it. I did that for years, yeah good that book.

You know, let's see what... But you know, quite late on I played it all the way through Sister Re. And I thought that at the end of it, I didn't feel the same about anything. I did before I played. It's such a great party record for a start if you put that on a house party yeah I mean it's one of them great

you know those go-go dancers so I mean think of the strict rhythm in it you know it's just like relentless in it so once you've got into that groove you're there for 20 minutes and the story story underneath it, you know, you keep saying, what did he say? What's that he said there? This doesn't sound, it sounds like an unpleasant situation of one kind or another, doesn't it? You know what I mean? And it draws you, pulls you into it.

Is that after John Cale left? No, I think no he's in it. You can hear all the, there's a lot of very baroque Organ oh, yeah going on but that riff just keeps everything together. So grace a great number that I love sister now That's my favorite velvet's number that huh? Okay, I'm gonna go and revisit that because I don't know if I think I've made it right the way through sister Ray only a couple of times, but I'm gonna go back and Reassess and I love New Age. Aha, yeah.

I love that one. In the fade out, you can hear what the bass line's doing, and it's really frustrating. You could listen to it for ages, you know. It's stentorium. When you met... Fantastic band. When you met Nico though, that must have been quite extraordinary. Were you just asking her for anecdotes the whole time? Oh everybody did, you couldn't help it. But she'd give them you whether you asked for them or not.

Not just about the Velvets, I mean Nico, the people she could name among her social circle, you know, you couldn't get in there. You know, Frederico Fellini for instance. Do you know what I mean? Oh, like Chet Baker. Bob Dylan, you name it. People like that. You know, so she didn't run out of stuff to talk about when she'd worn the velvet under, you know, yeah, yeah, she had lots of... Was she chatty though? I mean, she seems like such... Not really, I wouldn't say she was chatty. I mean she seems like I wouldn't say she was chatting No, she seems like such an intense presence, but no was she aloof or you know anti-social either But her life experience is very you extremely unique, isn't it?

You know, she when she went to school Hitler was still around just about you know, clinging on That's right. And I've always wondered about what an evening in with Nico would have been like in those days. I mean, because you were both addicts, so you were sort of keeping yourself well, as you say. Well, yeah, there was that. But on one occasion, we were trying to explain what, because we were working together a lot as well in those days, doing double headers in all over Europe. And she just, this is in the James Young book actually, about when we're trying to explain to her

how to deliver a gag. Because it's one thing she never did, she didn't really do gags, you know. So I'll give her this simple one to be going on with, like, you know, a guy goes to a psychiatrist. Is it possible for a guy to be in love with an elephant? No, of course not. Well, where can I get rid of an engagement really that big?

And John is holding his hands up to describe a large... Whoop. A very large whoop. Anyway, she couldn't understand the subtext of it she thought she over complicated the subtext of it was it an ugly elephant? Well maybe that's not important right now. We spent a night with different gags, but she would always have some irrelevant question about the delivery of gags. But I'm not holding that against her, you know, it's not given to everybody. Sure.

But would you sit around, watch TV, play word games? Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, but TV finished early in those days as well. So yeah, no, but no mainly we stood, you know Why didn't I shoot up junk and? Veg out somehow. Yeah when you were on in the comfort of our own home But we did we did mean to We had a vague plan to do an album of boy girl a vague plan to do an album of boy-girl duet songs.

Right. You know, for instance, Love is Strange by Mickey and Sylvia. Yeah. I Just Wanna Stay Here by Steve Lawrence and Edie Gormie. You know, these sort of things. How High the Moon by Les Paul and Mary Ford. Deep Purple by Nino Tempo and April Stevens.

I'm still thinking of Love is Strange with Nico saying, will you be my lover boy? Yeah, yeah, it would have been a winner, wouldn't it? It would have been a strong contender for the hit parade. I like to think so in the playground of my imagination. You are going to read us another poem. Okie-duke. And this is available within the covers of What? My latest collection of poetry. Got any ideas? That's all? Yeah, sure.

Do you like to set them up when you're reading them out live or do you just hammer into them? Well, no, I set them up usually but because all this stuff is so fresh, you know, it hasn't been performed in public before so you know I'm I like time gentlemen time oh yeah I like that one okay time gentlemen time it is I quite like the marital miseries of the modern misogynist male do that one as well later on. Or the rhyme of the ancient Maria. It's a disgruntled, from the point of view of a disgruntled divorcee. That sounds good too. So we're looking for time gentlemen time right? Yeah I mean you know what we could finish with time gentlemen time. Okay then. And not that I want to finish just yet but so go for whichever one you fancy from those ones you just mentioned

So with that event so when I say that, you know, it's not about any part of my psychology That's coming to the front, you know, I suppose if it does you can't help it. And that's one of those things that happens It's a byproduct of poetry. I suppose it invites that sort of Analyzing. Yeah, I would say at the outset that that sort of speculation. I would say at the outset that if you're a poet, what you are is an adopter of positions, which means that you have to inhabit the mind of a citizen that you might not have anything in common with at all. That's part of an exercise in insights and supposition. But I have to inhabit that character for the purpose, just for the duration of a particular poem here. So I'm not, you know, I'm not the, I hope I'm not the, you

know, this one's called The Marital Miseries of the Modern Misogynist Male or The Rime of the Ancient Marier. But don't go looking, I'll tell you, there's only two poems that I can think of where that's actually me talking. And that's one of them is I've fallen in love with my wife. And the other one is Pies. Both of them come directly from my heart to the public. But. Do you remember those all off by heart?

I can remember them, I think. Maybe you could do I've fallen in love with my wife after this one. All right then, just to add a bit of reality. Okay, so here's the bad side of the story then. The marital miseries of the modern misogynist male or the rhyme of the ancient Maria. From the doghouse to the cat flap and back again without a map. He could be heading for a slap his fractured fairy tale gone zap Just like I said was gonna happen

She hoovers up when he tries to take a nap in the manner of Andy Cap She sold his frog-eyed sprite for scrap step lively mind the gap someday He's gonna snap who would be a chap mind the gap, someday he's gonna snap who would be a chap? she fucks up, he takes the rap like any penis owning sap he fell into her sugary trap now he's taking all that crap

that drops in daily right on tap he's got a lockdown dog going yap yap yap you don't believe me, consult the app who would be? who would be? I ask you two times make that three some day he's gonna snap who would be a chap there you are you see to anybody who's thinking of making the transition I'm just saying it's not all beer and skittles and then the antidote to that.

The antidote to that would be, yeah I love this one. I'm glad I wrote it. Got me out of the dog house more than once. Okay. The tour bell used to say ding dong but now it bays out into song. If I'm forlorn it ain't forlorn. Could I be wrong or have I fallen in love with my wife? Fair thee well my fairy fae, we cared so slightly anyway. Call me crazy with a capital K but I've fallen in love with my wife. I've fallen in love with my wife, she populates my days With marital breakdown running rife, I have to keep her under my gaze You love somebody, set them free, that don't make no sense to me I'm keeping her under lock and key

I've fallen in love with my wife Rainbows and butterflies occupy the summer skies Imagine my surprise, I've fallen in love with my wife I've fallen in love with my wife, she populates my days It's keeping me awake at night, my head stuck in this funky smaze Every time I talk I mumble, every time I walk I stumble I'm dancing like a drunken uncle, I've fallen in love with my wife I've fallen in love with my wife, she populates my days

She's not that far from a carving knife, I have to keep her in my gaze I don't swear but what the hey, I'm alright and she's okay Get out of her fucking way, I've fallen in love with my wife I'm her fella, she's my mate, she steals the chips right off my plate No wonder I'm losing weight, I've fallen in love with my wife I steal a kiss, she takes the piss. We lived a life of ignorant bliss. All that little bit of a I'm a little bit of a I'm a little bit of a

I'm a little bit of a I'm a little bit of a I'm a little bit of a I'm a little bit of a I'm a little bit of a I'm a little bit of a I'm a little bit of a I'm a little bit of a

I'm a little bit of a I'm a little bit of a When you were on Desert Island Discs, your object that you wanted to take to the island, your special object, was a big lump of drugs. It was a boulder of opiumium twice the size of my own head. And Lauren Laverne obviously sounded a little dubious about that. I don't think, you know, I don't think the BBC would obviously be keen, nor would I, to promote the use of illegal drugs and potentially harmful substances. But... Horses for courses, though, if you're on your own on a desert island. Well, there you go. Alan Wilson You are the law.

Peter Robinson Yeah, yeah, exactly. Alan Wilson And I would be very relaxed about that, given the situation. Peter Robinson Yeah. And obviously, it's not something that I would want to promote to anyone. I would be upset if my children ever decided to take up heroin after. Quite rightly so. Yeah, yeah. But I'm interested to know, as someone who's never taken it, I'm interested to know what the kind of best aspect of it is.

Well, I don't want to advertise it either. In a way, you can't say the right thing about it, especially if you've got some... That's why I never talk about it really, I always regret what I've said, you know, open that door you'll never close it again. Do you wish that you had never opened that door? Err, sometimes, yeah, yeah, there are many regrets about it, yes of course, yeah, yeah. Because of the... I had no doubt about it. Life would have been far easier and I would have been successful far earlier had I never got involved with the shit. I'm a great believer in manifest destiny. Here I am. Yes, I did the wrong thing, but here we are.

You've got a good line in your book. Talk about moral relativism and you say if you want to get a lesson in moral relativism look at the the universe of an addict whose every move no matter how heinous is informed by the phrase who wouldn't yeah that's right it's the death of the soul you say yeah I've got along with that certainly yeah yeah but nobody sort of sets out to kill their soul you know I mean I mean? You don't take it for that, you know, but it is the vibe, it's the side effects. Put it on that list of side effects for gneesomal. Monoxidil.

I don't want to get all lecture-y, because that's the thing as well about it, about the, you know, it's, I'm no wiser. You'd think it would bring you some wisdom about it or something, but I'm not at all, nothing. I'm learning anything from it. You know, it teaches you nothing, nothing. One day you got served up some stuff by Chet Baker, speaking of Chet Baker. Yeah, but I didn't know it was Chet Baker. I didn't know it was Chet Baker at the time. I wish I did. I found out when I watched Let's Get Lost, you know, the film Bruce Weber.

Yeah, it's a great picture. And I love his music. Particularly his singing. I'm a big fan of that. You know, I'm not really a jazz expert or anything. I like what he does on the trumpet. But when he started singing, I thought, well, that's just fabulous. That's beautiful. It was, we were out there with Nico at the Paradiso and she said, give me all your, what a cop, give me your money.

There's somebody I know, he's very reliable. We won't have to wait for him. He'll be waiting for us, you know No, yes, you know, so we better no reason to disbelieve, you know, is this Amsterdam? Yeah in Amsterdam Yeah at the Paradiso and he wasn't actually waiting for us. Of course. I was on like a rash, you know thought you said he'd be waiting for But like a minute and a half later Guy shuffles in in a bandana, you know, with missing teeth

at the front. So I figured he was one of the many draft-dodging American hippies that had gone there because of the dope. You know, the cannabis end of things, you know, in the 70s. I thought, you know, I heard his accent. But, and then he kind of fished out a few packages, you know, and he sort of, he didn't raise his voice above a momma, you know what I mean? And I thought, who is this guy? You know, he looks like Geronimo's kid brother.

So I said, he gives him what we want, we give him the money and that. But at no point did she say, that was Chet Baker. At no point. So, and then 30 years later, because as far as I was concerned, Chet Baker was like the James Dean of modern jazz. He was such a glamour boss. Beautiful. Cheekbones you could have hung your coat on. Yeah, and they even had a gig advertising arrow shirts

you know, that's how group that's how great he lose like fantastic like a Terrific-looking guy won it he lost his look spectacular. So, you know, I mean the last person I thought it was was check And then 30 years later I see this film and the fact that he I didn't even know he lived in Amsterdam and it came obvious in the film because he died there didn't he fell out of a window de-fenestration yeah yeah yeah so but 30 years it took me I would have dined out because I'm a right name dropper or what's the point I would have been back in get you ever guess who I just bought dope off Only my mate shit

But he was it was great. Yeah fantastic film I can't recommend that enough. Let's get lost. Yeah, let's get lost Were you in 24 hour party people? I wasn't in it. I talked myself out of that That's the what that's the worst days work. I ever did. You know I said before when I get offered films, I always ask, well who else is in it? You know, who's the star? Who else is in it? Just to give it some perspective. Like I say for the reason is, you know, if I'm the only person I've heard of in it, it's going straight into the bargain, blockbusters. So with that in mind, they got me a house phone, we're doing this thing about the factory records and the Hacienda and that whole Madchester thing, which I'd left home by then, I wasn't involved in any of that Madchester baggy stuff at all,

actually. But I was there at the beginning of the Hacienda, you know, I did a couple of shows there So did Bernard Manning as it happens today at the Hacienda. It was at the opening night. Yeah He did did a bit of the opening night of the Hacienda. Yeah But we all know that that became an international destination for hip kids around the world. Yeah But Howard Devoto was in 24 hour party people? Well that's right, they didn't tell me that. They didn't tell me Smithy was in it, or Mark Smith was in it, but I know them two were in it, you know, and they weren't, you know, playing themselves. Because when I asked who else in it, they said, well we've got so and

so playing Tony Wilson and so and so playing and blah blah blah Peter Kay playing Don Tony so I says hold on here so everybody's being played by somebody else but I've got to play myself I thought well you know I'm gonna look like some kind of gatecrasher or something here you know but they should have said well Smith is in it and I would have agreed to it yeah believe me you know this is how this is the level I operate on this or no Technology, you know, who else is it? Anyway, I taught myself out of it. I thought now I'm gonna come out of that looking like a fucking dweeb You know, so Did you watch dance? I turn down it was a smash hit all over the world one it I do like that film

I'm doing a world fucking Legion Donner there. You know, I'm fucking... That was a bad day's work turning that one down. When I think of some of the turkeys I've been involved with. For a moving nut. You know what I mean?

I can't apply it to myself, unfortunately. If they go ahead with the biopic about you, will you have a cameo in that? I suppose so. I'm not going to jinx it by even talking about it, to be honest, because I've met so many people with film treatments. But you know. I mean, I've got one. I'm only going to give you the title here, and I'm going to establish that it's my title, it's copyright John Cooper Clark. I've had this idea for ages, you know what, there's more to this than meets the eye but

when I finally got the DVD out of Snakes on a Plane, so I thought about, you know, what you're going to do, you're in a plane plane all they can do is sit still You know not saying come on. Don't move whatever you do. You know it's a movie You know the clue is in the title a movie where nobody moves. What's that all about? You know I mean So all it is it's just people white-knuckling it and you know all these snakes on the full of snakes motherfucking snakes on the motherfucking plane. And also they didn't even look real. The snakes were moving in a kind of forward fashion like that. Everybody knows snakes they go sideways don't they? They didn't even look real. They sort of jump around don't they?

Like they launch themselves. Yeah they launch themselves and things like that but there were all the passengers that told right at the start you know you'll be all right if you don't move. So what kind of a fucking film is this going to be? Watching people sweat on a plane when they're threatened by something they can't do anything about you know what they're going to do? Jump out the plane. I thought well what would be more you know can you do better in a dialogue? Yeah, I can do better than that para in a car Now that's a fucking emergency Flying in your face Well, you're heading down a six-lane highway

On some intersection Gotta be American because it's I'll tell you it's a road movie It's a white knuckle thriller and a rom-com. I'm not gonna tell you any more about it I mean, I've even got the script down Parrot in a car. You've got to do something about that What you gonna do if you're going a thousand miles an hour and some parrots flying in your face fucking squawking and The reason it gets out of the cage it's in a cage on the back seat at the beginning of the journey yeah and he hits a bump in the road a dead skunk or something and it jerks the cage open the parrot gets out loose in the car doesn't like it and Makes a nuisance of itself and I could I could give you some

Isolated scenes, but I'm not confident somebody ain't gonna swipe it because the gap the character that's driving the car is a Tribe Ecker So called artist is just a dope smoking loser But he's teamed up with this chick who's quite the egghead my god she have thought about this. This is the back story she's sick of this life with his fucking whacked out buddies you know and all that and getting nowhere she's a qualified reflexologist but you know she never meets any clients because of this no good Nick boyfriend. You know, and the thing about the parrot is this, the significance of the parrot is this.

Her dad, who she's a real daddy's girl, her dad who recently died is from Nantucket and was a seafaring gentleman so he had a parrot he's got a he had a parrot the only thing he left her is the parrot and the parrot is sort of her dad it's like a living memory of her dad because he it copied everything her dad said including a load of seafaring slang and you know and that. But mainly it's all the stuff that he used to say about him when he was courting his daughter. So it's all, ditch that loser, the guy's a mooch, get rid of that jerk. You know and it's always reiterating all those things that her

dad used to say and driving him mad. She's left him. She left him in the loft conversion, which he can't even pay the rent on anymore. And she's moved to Berkeley, where she's the head of the reflexology faculty. It was an opportunity. She couldn't pass up. This guy's dragged her down for long enough. And he's on the, it opens up, the film opens up, he's on the phone, but come back baby please, the place ain't the same without you, you know, and she's, I'm never coming back, you know, you know. And she, well at least take your stuff, you know, it's all in boxes, all the stuff's in boxes. At least take your stuff away. It's a constant reminder. It's breaking my heart on a daily basis. I'm staying in the halls of residence until I find an apartment.

I haven't got enough room for all that stuff. Well at least take, you know, Angus the Parrot. Whatever it's called. I'll think of a better name. You haven't thought of a name for the parrot yet? You've thought of every single back story. Every name of the mother fucker parrot. But he's saying at least take Albert the parrot, you know, every day he's on at me all the time, ditch the loser, get rid of him, you know, and all this, and I can't stand it anymore, you know. And she's all all like don't you let anything happen to that parrot you know and all like you know it's the closest thing to her heart and the death of her dad he says if you don't come and get the parrot I'm coming to Berkeley to drop it off no don't do that you know that pets aren't

allowed in the halls of residence share well never mind I'm dropping him off. So then it gets like the fucking graduate, you know. He's in the car, borrows a fucking muscle cab, dodge challenger of a rich kidmate of his and sets off, you know, with the parrot in the back seat like, you know, and determined to drop it off at the Berkeley University and what the parrot as I say escapes from the fucking cage he can't let anything happen to it otherwise he'll never get back together with the girl yeah you know which he's still got some hopes of doing sure but obviously the theme soon is gonna be a surfing bird by

the trash man trash man yeah I've been thinking about the soundtrack you know But obviously the theme tune's gonna be, uh, Surfing Bird by the, uh... Trash Men. Trash Men, yeah. That's got to play there. But I've been thinking about the soundtrack, you know, because it's a road movie. I've even got bits of Vanishing Point in there. Okay.

Whereby, you know, when he does that amphetamine deal with that biker, where he's doing a thousand miles an hour in a Dodge Challenger, he's run out of pet pills, and he sees this hippie on a hog with a naked blonde on the back and they're going on a picnic. There's a basket on the back of his hog so they're just going out for a picnic in the desert and he's driving through there on the Kowalski. Primal Scream's done a number about it. Oh yeah yeah. Kowalski yeah, Vanishing Point, it's a great classic film and anyway he does a deal where he draws level with the guy on the hog and he says,

got any opps? You know, goofballs. So he says, yeah, sure, you know, and he does this deal, you know, he gives him the dosch through the window, you know. They're both doing a thousand miles an hour and they do this drug deal, you know, at a thousand miles an hour. Next a couple of these goofballs carry on, thanks buddy, you know what I mean? Yeah, anytime man and all that but I'm gonna pinch that scene But instead of pet pills, I noticed they're going on and they've got the picnic basket. So I'm like Got any saltines? You're probably picnic ain't a picnic without some saltines, you know, like Ritz crackers. Oh,, got any Ritz crackers? Sure we're going on a picnic, what do you think? Yeah, yeah, yeah, if I give you a dollar will you give me a handful of them, you know, anything

to distract the fucker, because what does a parrot want? A cracker. Just to keep it out of your face for five minutes. So will you? But he's got to do it to her and my new gap in the window otherwise the parrot or fucking fly out of course it lose the parrot and then kiss goodbye to your loved one yeah you know all right so this is the I'm the film executive what a tense movie it's I mean I think we're gonna be all we're gonna be rich I'm the film executive and I'm saying John. This is very exciting this project What do you think about doing it as a short initially? What parrot in a curve? Yeah, like rather than committing to a full feature film What about doing getting a hot director and we could do as a sort of 15 minute short take it around the festival circuit

Oh, no, I'm looking for the big bucks, blockbuster of the year. So you want to go the full three and a half hours on Parrot in the Car? Not three and a half, 90 minutes. That's the standard length. 90 minutes, no. 90 minutes, old school. Because you know, this thing shit happens on that journey. I've only given you the briefest of outlines and do you

think real parrot or are we gonna use CG? Oh real parrot yeah real parrot yeah yeah but he's flying in his face and things like that and calling him a cunt while he's trying to drive the motherfuckerucka car. I love it. Pressure's on all the way. Sign here. It's a go project. Green light for Parrot in a Car. Bass in the right side, right side got the bass.

Bass now in the left side, left side on the bass. Bass in the right side, right side got the bass. Bass now in the left side, left side on the bass. We got the bass right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right When would you have first come across this poem? It was one of the episodes of Civilization by Sir Kenneth Clarke. Remember that series? Yeah, sure. Award winning, quite rightly. So great series. I've got them all on VHS.

But, yeah, he recites this number. And it's W.B. Yeats. W.B. Yeats, yes. William Butler Yeats. Turning and turning in the widening guyer, the falcon cannot hear the falconer. Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold. Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world. The blood-dimmed tide is loosed and everywhere the ceremony of innocence is drowned.

The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity. Surely some revelation is at hand. Surely the second coming is at hand. The second coming. Hardly are those words out when a vast image out of spiritus mundi troubles my sight. Somewhere in the sands of the desert, a shape with lion body and the head of a man, a gaze blank and pitiless as the sun is moving its slow thighs, while all about it real shadows of the indignant desert birds. The darkness drops again, but now I know that twenty centuries of stony sleep were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle and what

rough beast its hour come round at last slouches towards Bethlehem to be born. It's a great number isn't it? There are very modern applications for some of these lines obviously aren't they? The cancel culture is alluded to which didn't even exist then. The best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity. I'm always suspicious of the elevation of passion above all else. How do you mean? Why should I share your, you know, these people that have a passionate vision, you you know why should that impress me? A sort of righteous conviction?

Passion itself you know is that preferable to cool rationality? Yeah cool rationality is it really? You know I could name you a few passionate people that fucked up the world at one time or another. No war was ever started by anybody who couldn't give a fuck one way or the other. That was written after the First World War. That's right, yeah. Yeah. When he felt that, well, I guess everyone must have felt that things were coming to an end. Well, that modernity itself was under question. Yeah. Any rational person that would enter their head at that time, wouldn't it?

1919 was written. And that was even before things were about to get worse. And they would be plunged into the Second World War and then unimaginable horrors in there. And it's been downhill ever since. War, it has its downsides. It's too violent for a start. You wrote a poem called Doomed. Oh yeah right I'm glad you picked that one out yeah that that's a, that is sort of... Tangentially related. Yeah, tangentially related, yeah doomed.

Well again I'm inhabiting, this is a great example of me inhabiting the mind of somebody other than myself. You know I'm not one of the worried well. I'm more worried sick. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I should have called it that actually rather than doomed. I thought of that the other day. I should have called this worried sick. Here it is doomed.

In long pants I feel over styled. I look at a dog, I see a blind child. I look at a car, I see a planet defiled. Where the summertime is a burning hell. In the wound up, wed up whereabouts where the worried well dwell do tell. We dwell on whether stress could lead to suicidal thoughts. We dwell on the blatant judgementalism that still persists in the courts. Everybody I know agrees with me. The worried well are

worried well we would be, wouldn't we? Sugar free sugar, that's up my street. The real stuff is just too sweet and do we really need to eat the poisons that they sell? From this tainted and ungrateful soil where the worried well dwell? We dwell on that lonely, tigous procession about to bill us all. We dwell on the so-called medical profession who are trying to kill us all. Everybody I know agrees with me. The worried well are worried well. We would be, wouldn't we? I'll show you Skid Row in a can of beer and a future that holds only doubt and fear, With any luck we'll be dead next year before the boiling oceans swell. This is the Grimken consensus where the worried well dwell. We dwell upon the problems caused by living for so long.

We like to put things right before they're wrong. Everybody I know agrees with me. The worried well are worried well, we would be, wouldn't we? Storms of protest, floods of tears, a tidal wave of social engineers for years and years and years and years. Ye gods and bloody hell! Poetry falls on deafened ears where the worried well dwell. Before I ask you to read Time, gentlemen, Time, how do you feel time is treating you? Well it's been kinder than I ever expected actually although I can't you know who can imagine being dead? You know I can't imagine it's ever gonna

happen to me but you know the years are rolling on and mortality dogs my every other thought. But I tell you this, up from anybody shows up to my funeral expecting to celebrate my life can fuck the fuck right the fuck off. If I see it from the heavens, anybody smiling at my funeral, they were never my friend. I want wall to wall teardrops. Five miles of weeping women, the rending of the garments and the gnashing of the teeth. Why him? So young. What song do you want? It was only 89. What song you having? Oh that's a good

one. Peace in the Valley Elvis. Ah yeah. Yeah yeah. that all how great thou art. Peace in the valley I think is more appropriate for a funeral. But keep it solemn I say. The last serious funeral I went to and I've said it before I'll say it again I could go to six funerals a week if I wanted at my age and I know a lot of people. They're all very ill. But no man can live on voluvantes alone, Adam. So we're looking for, er... Time, gentlemen, time. Time, gentlemen, time.

Number nine. Nature ain't your friend. It's round the fucking bend. It tries to show you constantly, still you don't comprehend Time, gentlemen, time We'll wreck your neck and rip your hip Break your face and split your lip Give your spinal column jip

Help you lose your tenuous grip on Time, gentlemen, time Time, gentlemen, time We Time, gentlemen, time, will turn your Clara into alligator wine, put the state of your health on a deadline, make the seat of your trousers shine. Time, gentlemen, time. Time, gentlemen, time,

will fade your gaze when you go online, will fade you out on the public dime when it's time, gentlemen, time, time, gentlemen, time will tell you nature ain't your friend, nature made a mess, nature tries to kill you from day one with increasing degrees of success. I like a happy ending. So you are editing it, Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah.

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Mother nature ain't your friend, she'll lend a hand to your very end. You're not safe, why pretend? You need insurance. Hey, how are you doing, Podcats? That was John Cooper Clarke, sorry, Dr John Cooper Clarke, and I am extremely grateful to him for his time. And once again, I would like to thank Tom Donovan, whose studio we were recording in. Thanks very much indeed for your help that day, Tom. And I don't know, did you find a cap? I left one of my green docker caps there. It was one of the good ones. If you still have it give me a shout Tom.

There's a few links in the description of today's podcast to some other bits and pieces you might find interesting. John's website where you can see his tour dates and buy copies of his poetry collections. As I said his latest is called What? There's a really good documentary about John that was made in 2012, evidently John Cooper Clark. There's that appearance on Desert Island Discs in 2019. A few performances including a performance of one of my favorite John Cooper Clarke tracks, Reader's Wives. That's from his first album I think with Martin Hannett although I noticed that it's not acknowledged as a Martin Hannett production because the sound was very different to where Martin Hannett

ended up. It's credited to Martin Zero as producer, I think I'm right in saying. Anyway I really like that track Reader's Wives. Make a date with the brassy brides of Britain and they did a good performance of that with Martin Hannett and the Invisible Girls on the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1978, there's a link to that and a few other bits and pieces. What's in my bag at Amoeba Records with John, there's Arctic Monkeys playing I Want To Be Yours Live, there's the Sugar Puffs ad, there's a really good Mavis Nicholson Afternoon Plus interview in 1979. I really recommend

that one. And there's a link to the reasons to be cheerful website to get an additional perspective on some of the things going on in the world today and there's a link to my website where you can see John resplendent in his herringbone tweed and giant paperboy cap okay that's it for this week thank you very much indeed once again to Dr. John Cooper Clark. Thanks to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for his production support and conversation editing. Thanks to Helen Green, she does the artwork for the podcast. Thanks to all at Acast and thanks very much indeed to you. I really appreciate you coming back. I've just been rained on so it's gonna be a slightly damp hug but I do think it's

important that we keep on hugging. Come on! Hey, how you doing? Alright, till next time, take care, I love you. Bye! Like and subscribe. Like and subscribe. Like and subscribe. Please like and subscribe. Give me a big smile and a thumbs up. I stick a pant where me bum's up. Give me a big smile and a thumbs up.

I stick a pant where me bum's up. Like and subscribe. Like and subscribe. Like and subscribe, please like and subscribe Give me like a smile and a thumbs up Like and subscribe, please like and subscribe I can't stop crying, I can't stop crying I can't stop crying, I can't stop crying I'm so tired of being alone, I'm so tired of being alone I'm so tired of being alone, I'm so tired of being alone I can't stop crying

I can't stop crying I can't stop crying I can't stop crying I can't stop crying I can't stop crying I can't stop crying I'm going to be using the same Thanks for watching!