THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.24 - RICHARD AYOADE (TRAVEL MAN CONVERSATIONS 1)

Episode Date: July 8, 2016

A series of conversations with director, writer and actor Richard Ayoade, recorded in May 2016 while filming his Channel 4 show 'Travel Man' in Lisbon. All your favourite subjects are covered including guilt, films, Oscars, Michael Haneke and the challenges presented by interviews. Thanks to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for production support. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello! This podcast contains bad language. Sorry. Also, if you're someone that doesn't enjoy brilliant, entertaining, fun introductions and just wants to get to the chatting with the guest part, then skip to around 8 minutes 10. That's where you'll find Richard. Cheers! I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening i took my microphone and found some human folk then i recorded all the noises while we spoke my name is adam buxton i'm a man i want you to enjoy this, that's the plan. Adam Buxton here. Welcome to podcast number 24. Well, a lot's happened, hasn't it, since I uploaded the last podcast.

And that's putting it mildly. But I guess the main thing, of course, is that Rosie is now internationally famous. I uploaded a video of her jumping about in a field near our house. In fact, I'm walking by it right now. It's called Rosie Dog in Field Bouncing. That's the name of the video. It describes what is happening in it. And I put it up on YouTube and within a couple of days it had around 100,000 views. And I told my son, my 13-year-old son, that Rosie had gone viral. So he looked up the clip on YouTube and when he saw how many views it had, he looked at me with total pity and said, dad, a hundred thousand views is hardly viral. I was a bit deflated, but in the next few days I was approached by several agencies. They have all

these agencies now that get in touch. If a video goes viral, they get in touch with the person that uploaded it. And they say, Hey, look, if you sign up with us, then we'll help you license the clip to TV stations and you'll get a cut of the money and all that stuff. But I thought, no, I'm not going to bother because I want Rosie to run free IRL and OTI on the internet. I don't want people to have to wade through adverts before they watch Rosie bouncing around in a field for 20 seconds, you know, unless, of course, there's a huge amount of money on offer. But so far, that has not been the case. Anyway, evidently, numerous people have just gone ahead and nicked the video off YouTube and reposted it on their pages. And there's one page on Facebook that a few people told me about where it's sitting currently and it has around,

well, the last time I looked, around five and a half million views. A fact that I was happy to point out to my son while dancing around and shouting, in your face! In other news, and on the subject of Rosie, I'm afraid to say that there has recently been quite a bit of disagreement within the house about how Rosie should be treated. Some people seem to feel that there are too many restrictions being placed on Rosie and that she should be allowed to run about wherever she likes and be in charge of her own destiny. Other house members feel that the restrictions aren't that extreme

and it's important that we all stick together so that we can look after Rosie and make sure she doesn't run off and terrorize the cows and needlessly antagonize the deer community. But it's all got very heated and opinions are very strong and polarized. And then the other weekend, my mom and my brother, Uncle Dave, came around along with our friend Dan. And Danny and my mum said that they thought Rosie should be allowed to do whatever she wants. And the cows can look out for themselves.

And as for the deer, they're always causing problems, so screw them. That's what they reckoned. Anyway, some of the children started calling Granny a racist, which wasn't very helpful. Granny told the children that they were naive and that they should have more faith in Rosie. And actually, she also did say some racist things. And I just got fed up with the whole thing. You know, I was like, what's happening to us? We've got to stop the bickering. So I came up with a brilliant idea. What we're going to do is we're going to put it to the vote. And I'm pretty sure

that'll sort everything out. Because then the children and my wife and granny and Danny and Uncle Dave will feel they've had their say and that they've been listened to. And then I can just tell my mum not to interfere anymore. And I can go back to running the house the way I want to. Good plan, isn't it? I'll let you know how it turns out. Anyway, let's escape together for a while and think about this week's podcast, which I've split into two parts, both featuring conversations with Richard Ayoade. Yay! You know who Richard Ayoade is. I mean, I really don't think I need to tell you too much about him. I was first aware of Richard when he did Garth Marenghi's Dark Place, along with Matt Holness, Matt Berry and Alice Lowe. And thereafter, he appeared in shows like The Mighty Boosh and Nathan Barley. And then, of course, The IT Crowd, which I guess is what he is perhaps most

well known for. But Richard is also a director who cut his teeth on Darkplace and then helmed a number of music videos and has since made a couple of feature films. Submarine was his first one in 2010, starring Sally Hawkins and Paddy Considine and Craig Roberts and Yasmin Page and Noah Taylor. And then there was 2013's The Double, starring Jesse Eisenberg and Mia Wasikowska. Wasikowska. Wasi? Wasikowska. Wasikowska.

Whoa. Wasikowska. That's disrespectful and racist. Over the last few years, Richard's also been doing a bit of presenting. Channel 4 viewers know him as the host of Gadget Man, and more recently, the host of Travel Man, in which he is joined by a different guest each week to spend 48 hours in a variety of holiday destinations. And I was very pleased to get the call earlier this year

to be a guest on that show. And in May of this year, 2016, we went to Lisbon, westernmost city in Europe, and home to a certain treaty, of course. If we'd known then what we know now, we might have gone along with a biro, made a few alterations, especially to Article 50. But instead, we just wandered around being glib.

And between setups, I would whip out my voice note recorder and I would enter podcast mode, which it has to be said is not Richard's natural setting. He's a shy, modest man and softly spoken, which can be tricky when you're recording a podcast on a plane or in a noisy Lisbon street. But I hope you'll get used to the ambient noise fairly quickly. And enjoy listening to me and Richard bollocking on during one of his rare podcast appearances as he made plane on the plane. I really think there's no need to record anything I say.

I'm doing this because I like you. But I feel, I mean... How about... Even... You've been on other podcasts, right? Well, I was on the Nerdist podcast, and they subsequently said it was the worst experience they'd ever had. When did they say that?

Someone tweeted it to me. I don't believe that that's true. Yes, no, they did. They had an interview with Joan Rivers, and she said, who's been terrible? Come on, just be honest. Who's been the worst? And they went, no, you know, everyone's great. People have different energies.

She said, oh, come on, someone must have been dog shit. And there was just one guy. Rumble Chat, that's up on Rumble Chat. There was just one guy. your talking hat. Yes, yes, yes. La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, So we're on the plane to Lisbon. Yes. And we're up in business class while the crew are back in economy. You insist on that. I thought it was a strange email to receive.

But I don't know, that's kind of how it works. I don't, well, yeah, I don't like sitting with them. This makes everyone concerned look pretty bad. Well, to me, it's great. Right. In what way? Because I really love being up at the front of the plane. Okay. And it's my dream, as I've mentioned on this podcast before.

Why? Because I'm like a little small man. I feel incredibly guilty all the way through. Oh, look, your... Oh, look, my drinks are up. Your rose water has arrived. OK. Sure, absolutely.

I'll tell you what, we'll put them in the middle. Thank you. Some taco wads, peanuts. Yeah, sure, that would be great thank you thank you so much okay thank you I don't feel guilty

at all really? no I don't think so I feel very guilty do you? yes well if you feel so guilty why don't you just go back and sit there because I know how much this means to you yes well if you feel so guilty why don't you just go back and sit there sit in the back because I know how much this means to you

and that's why and well you can't as well can you you're not allowed to you used to be able to change airline tickets and I tried to do that once this sounds very self aggrandizing

in a backwards kind of way. Oh, did you try and say, listen... I tried... I was doing a film in America and I was so tense because... I've only done one film in America, so it wasn't like one of a series of films. The Neighborhood Watch, was it called? Yes. Well, it ended up being called The Watch

because of Trayvon Martin. Right. That case. Oh, God. Thank you. We just got some nuts. Oh, thank you. That was good for sound.

And as part of SAG rules, they have to fly you first class. And you asked to be downgraded? No, there was someone else who looked like that. I just thought could I give this flight to someone else? So what, was this person... Well, you can't... They looked elderly or... Yes, but you can't. They said you can't swap before.

But you tried to give up your nice seat because you're a nice guy. No, guilt. I don't think guilt is evidence of niceness. I think it's probably more evidence of monstrous self-regard. If you know that, then why can't you just get over your guilt? Well, is guilt a rational process? I think you possibly can realise what you're doing,

but I don't know that you can necessarily straightforwardly get over it. Yeah. Anyway, the outcome of all this... I'm not really doing much to help anyone, I'd say. Well, you're entertaining people. That's a valuable job. You're making hours pass more pleasurably for people. I think on balance, I'm probably making it worse. I don't know if you average it out.

Also, you're supporting your family. That's a good job. I don't allow them access to the funds. Yeah, yes, I guess. Now, listen, man. Go on. This is a good job you've got, right? But it's weird for you, though, because you're not a natural traveller.

No, I have motion sickness on nearly everything. Oh, right, so you literally suffer physically. Yes, it's a strange... I guess the premise of it is that I would ideally not travel in some ways. What's your problem with travelling? I don't really feel the need to go anywhere. I like the Benedictine monk model of existence. Can't.

Stay in one place. That's it. I don't like leaving my wife or children for any length of time, really. I'd say that's the main component of it now. I can understand the idea of someone emigrating and going somewhere else for a while. But travelling for the sake of it. There is something slightly silly about going somewhere so briefly.

You're aware that you are systematically undoing the entire premise of your BAFTA-nominated show? I feel that is the only thing I do within it, is undermine the show. But I can't help but seem to undermine my own flimsy excuse for existence. That's just a pose, though, right? It's a pose off, normally I'm like Kanye West. Yeah, when you're not doing a podcast you're swaggering around.

Yeah, in my own self-designed denim wear. Saying this is the kind of denim Jesus would have worn if he could afford it. Talking about things with Richard on the aeroplane. Every now and then the subject changes and we talk about something else.

On this occasion the conversation turned to movies or films. It's one of my favourite things to talk about. And my first question was, who's a good director in your book who's working at the moment and keeps churning stuff out? Good question. Who's a good director in your book who's working at the moment and keeps churning stuff out? Well, I don't know who to churn stuff out, but I think Jonathan Glazer's very good. Under the Skin. Oh my God, that was good.

Really good. And I really like Birth and Sexy Beast. I haven't seen Birth. Sexy Beast I love. Yeah. Birth is great. Everything yeah. Is Birth good? Really good. Oh okay. It's really good. I don't know why it never occurred to me to see it. I think he's

brilliant and I think Joanna Hawke is very good. Yeah. What did she do? Rat Catcher. Arca Pelago. Lynn Ramsey. Lynn Ramsey did Rat Catcher. She's good too. Joanna Hawke is very good yeah what did she do Ratcatcher Lynn Ramsey she's good too Lynn Ramsey's good I like

she hasn't done anything for a while but I like this Bulgarian director called Barbara Albert who did has she done anything with Will Ferrell living in a unlikely world? Yeah, she did Elf 2. Okay, good. She did a film called Free Radicals, Northern Skirts maybe? They're sort of interweaving narratives with some magic realism and Paul Thomas Anderson

sort of a theme. Have you seen his Radiohead video? Yeah, I really liked it. It's good, isn't it? Yes, it was nice to see him operating in a contemporary world. It's been a while since Punch On Love. Yeah, that's right. So that was interesting. You didn't read any of the YouTube comments over there, did you? No. No, why would you? Measured and generally positive.

Well, there were a lot of positive ones, but you could divide them fairly easily into three categories. First category, radio head fans that loved it. Yeah. Thumbs up. Second category, boring, pretentious, why can't they go back to doing songs with guitars on them? Right.

And then the third category was comments about Tom York's appearance. Right. Mainly, er, he's old. Why has he got old? Right. old. Why has he got old? Right. Yes. Why has he got old?

That's what I want to know. It seems very indulgent. You know him, do you? I mean, I know him to say hello to. Have you confronted him about his willful ageing? Yeah, why have you got old? God, one absolute... What a prick.

Yeah. I mean, come on. Let's call it what it is. That asshole. Why would you do that? Deliberately ageing to affront everyone else. When so many people are invested in you not ageing. Allowing his face to decay in the way that he's wantonly doing.

Have you got the record yet? Yes, I did the real dad thing and I bought the, you know, the vinyl. Oh, the whole big shebang. Yeah, like a mojo reader. Because you still like owning physical objects. Yeah, because it makes me feel alive to buy things. That's not the future. The future is... Records is gas.

It does seem weird, though, that we are from a generation that did... Well, you're younger than I am, but certainly when I was growing up, it was all about acquisition of physical detritus. Yes. Piles and piles of VHSs, CDs. My dad fit televisions and videos.

That was his job. Oh, yeah. So we always had lots of that kind of stuff. Hmm. So, yes, I poured. I'm trying to de-hoard a little bit. Was your dad a sort of engineer guy? Yeah.

Oh. Yeah. What did he used to do, like, before he started preparing tellies? He did all sorts of things he taught at the university of abaddon for a bit in nigeria and he also drove a cab in britain in the uk wow yeah what was that like for him did you ever talk about him i mean he wasn't a big one for talking about himself at all. And yet you've turned out so different. I've become Ned Sharon.

Yeah, electronics. That's what he did. So I could fix a few basic faults with videos. Right. What kind of faults? Scanning? Scanning, jam tapes. I could take the top off. i could do some minor soldering

i solder it sold you still solder i don't still solder you haven't soldered on well i have come now a lot of it was just him looking through circuit diagrams and then him telling me to solder this joint that sounds like a cool thing to say solder this joint yes solder it i quite like did you have good bonding sessions over electronics then? It was nice. I did like sort of being in the shed, fixing things. Have you got a shed now? We don't really have enough garden space for a proper shed.

I would like a shed. You don't have, and I hate to use the phrase, man cave. Not in our house. But that is not a problem. I mean, it isn't strictly okay to have a man cave, is it? I don't know. I think it's okay if you have the space. As long as you're not kicking out a child from a bedroom.

No, and as long as you're not ignoring problems that need addressing within the relationship. Oh, you can do that within the main body of the house. You can do that anywhere. Where do you go to do that? You just shut down. Oh, you can do that within the main body of the house. You can do that anywhere. Where do you go to do that? You just shut down. You shut down in a conversation. You just shut down. I'm going in on myself now.

The emotion's rising too high. I can't cope. I imagine being married to a man. Yeah. Pretty hard. I guess. Yeah, let me hold this for you. Oh, while I open my peanuts. Yeah. Pretty hard, I guess. Yeah, let me hold this for you. Oh, while I open my peanuts.

Yeah, you open your peanuts. This is going to get disgusting. It's nuts with raisins. Quite delicious, aren't they? We're just tucking into our bags. But you see, I really enjoy listening to your podcast and listening to other people talk. There is something odd about wazzzing on yourself, isn't there? Of course, yeah, and expecting other people to be interested.

You know that Jack White song, or I guess it's a White Stripes song, is it called Little Room? Yeah. When you're in your little room. Yes. And there's something about that whereby people in their little rooms are doing it because they're not very good at being in the world you sort of want people to see something but you're probably not equipped to be able to talk about it without adopting some kind of monstrous persona it's like

there's a david lynch with very, there are many funny David Lynch clips. I like this one where he says, you work on a film for a long time, and then people say, talk about the film. But the film is the talking! There's something really funny about how elevated he gets. But you go, yeah, I guess, you know, he spent, you know, like like in Razorhead and those films

he puts all of the dust bunnies under the radiator you know everything is really composed so probably

if he were able to in ten minutes say well it's basically about a man he's got he's a bit worried I don't know why

suddenly he's speaking this voice it's how he really speaks he's worried about he's having a baby he's a bit worried. I don't know why he's suddenly speaking this voice. It's how he really speaks. He's worried about... He's having a baby. He's having a baby. He's a bit worried about it. And, you know, it's a bit of a nightmare, isn't it?

The stress. The stress gets to him. So, you know, it was kind of that. And the one with the face, with the kind of all big face, I don't know if that's really... That means his fear... You know, it would kind of old big face. And that's probably, that means his fear. You know, it would all become so uninteresting.

Well, of course, that's right. But it's really interesting hearing other people talk. It's just a block, isn't it? But you can talk around things, you don't have to be... These are excellent peanuts. They're good, aren't they? And when you get the occasional raisin... Raisin as a treat.

Right, we are... Yeah, we're landing. We're descending. I was riding in an aeroplane When it began to plummet to the ground I was crying and I said some prayers But then it turned out that the plane was simply coming into land Gosh, I was relieved that I wasn't going to die

My friend said it's okay, now you can let go of my hand And I'm sorry to remind you You're still going to die, just not today Ladies and gentlemen, I have just landed in Lisbon. Please remain seated with your seatbelts fastened until the fasten seatbelt sign is switched off. It was a pleasure having you with us today. We will look forward to welcoming you on board again soon. I don't know that they really feel it is a pleasure.

I think they may just be saying that. I think it was a pleasure serving us because we were very nice. You weren't that nice. You were constantly flipping her off. In a very funny way. Looking nice out there. Sunny day in Lisbon.

Are we going to go out tonight and get absolutely hammered? I'm going to canter through Hedda Gabler. And that's not a euphemism. I'm actually going to just read it. Hello, Adam Buxton here. Just setting the scene for the next chat section. Our first night in Lisbon was spent in the kind of fancy boutique hotel in which you might expect to find Steve Coogan and Rob Brydon filming an episode of The Trip. The next morning, Richard and I had breakfast together, and after 45 minutes

of Michael Caine impressions, we started to talk about films again, which we continued to do at various points throughout the day, first while we were being filmed riding around Lisbon in a tuk-tuk, and later in the streets outside a tinned fish emporium in the centre of town. It's fun talking to Richard about films. He has less mainstream taste than I do, and after speaking to him, I'm always inspired to actually watch one of the foreign and arthouse films I've dutifully bought over the years, but never actually removed from their packaging. We talked about one of Richard's favourite filmmakers, Michael Haneke, focusing on his 1997 film Funny Games in particular. And, be warned, the conversation does refer to details in

the plot of that film which might spoil your enjoyment should you wish to see it in the future but haven't yet. If only there was a pithier way of saying that. I know. Be warned, the conversation does contain plot flags. But first, I wanted to address some less than enthusiastic comments that Richard had made about one of my favourite films from the beginning of this year. I was very shocked to hear you being disrespectful about The Revenant. Oh, yes, sorry.

One of the big Oscar winners of last year. I mean, it won at Oscars. What about that? Well, it won at Oscars. I mean, doesn't that prove to you that you're wrong? Yes. What's your problem with The Revenant? Mulholland Drive lost out to A Beautiful Mind, I think. Yeah, but Mulholland Drive didn't have a movie story about a guy...

Yeah, with numbers flying through the air while he did calculations in His Beautiful Mind. You're right. So what do you think about that? I know. And now you're bringing down the revenant. Well, I'm not bringing it down. I just found it quite funny in part. Yeah.

I think everyone concerned has a great deal of ability. And they really did great pretending. Right, okay. But I did great pretending. Right, okay. But I did find that there was a lot of it did Who's that? Tom Hardy?

Tom Hardy. Yeah. I don't know. And there was a lot of Oh, look, you're being sprayed with sun cream. Oh, yes. Thank you.

Can I hold that for you? Yeah, man, you're being sprayed with sun cream. Oh, yes. Thank you. Can I... Yeah, man, you've got to be responsible. I know. Yes, I feel bad because, you know, no one wants... Well, you know... No one wants to... I mean, you were even lampooning the bear attack. Well, the bear attack...

I remember reading just when Leonardo DiCaprio raped by a bear. I didn't think, I mean, unless I missed something, I think he was just being mauled. I didn't think the bear was sexually interested in him. I certainly think the bear would have tried to get consent.

I just think the bear was trying to defend her young. Alright, we've got to pause because we've got to film a sequence on a tuck-tuck. Yes. Which is like, what is a tuck-tuck? It's like a little golf buggy, a fancy golf buggy. Does it have to have three wheels? Yeah, maybe.

Oh, here we go. OK. Right. Picking up our revenant convo, where were we? You were saying that it was just too mumbly and ludicrous for you. Well, there's quite a lot of mumbly acting, although I do like those actors. I think Leonardo DiCaprio is very good. And I thought he was great in Wolf of Wall Street.

Yeah. And much better, well, it's different demands, but I thought he was terrific in that. When he's all tied up and his son's being killed in front of him and he can't move because he's just been burgled by the bear. Yeah. Mike Nichol said a film is like a person. You either like it or you don't. It happened quite quickly.

I just wasn't... My feeling is that, especially with Oscar-winning films, that there's almost... Well, there are two things. One is, I think, virtually every film that wins the Oscar now needs to have a story about how the film was made. Because you need to read about a film and hear how great it is.

And that narrative is more important than the narrative of the film. So it felt that the narrative of how difficult it was to make it became the true story of the film and that that was very important to it. Whereas with something like Mulholland Drive, you just go, I don't know, David Lynch is a genius, you don't really know, who knows how he does it

there's no brilliant story behind this other than that, oh it was a TV pilot and now it's not, but that's not a great triumph over adversity story I think they all have that, and the other thing is I feel that with virtually every film that's won

the Oscar for a while you would only really want to watch it once. Or everything you can get from it feels like it comes out in one viewing. Whereas I don't feel that's the same of, say, even Pulp Fiction, or... I don't think that's a film where, you know, you're probably going to want to watch it again.

I don't know whether the same is true of, I don't think that's a film where, you know, you're probably going to want to watch it again. I don't know whether the same is true of, I don't know, Birdman. We're halfway through the podcast, I think it's going really great. The conversation's flowing like it would between a geezer and his mate. All right, mate. Hello, geezer, I'm pleased to see you. There's so much chemistry, it's like a science lab of talking. I'm interested in what you said. Thank you. There's fun chat and there's deep chat, it's like Chris Evans is meeting Stephen Hawking.

Okay, we're now resuming our conversation in a very pretty street. I mean, it seems like the set from a film itself, and it's so colourful. The pink floor. Yeah. We were talking about Oscars, and what was your theory that it all went a bit weird after...? Well, the 70s were pretty good. Right. And then... So, best picture Oscars in the 70s.

The French Connection, Godfather, The Conversation, Last Picture Show. Quite good run of films in the early 70s. Taxi Driver. Taxi Driver was nominated but didn't win. Yeah. Who won in that year? Which film? I'll tell you who won in 76.

Rocky. Rocky. 74. Beating out all the president's men, bound for glory. Network and Taxi Driver. Yes. Rocky's better than those two. What was 74? Godfather 2 or something?

So 74 was, yeah, Godfather 2, beating out chinatown the conversation lenny and the towering inferno who's the star of the towering inferno it's combustible material anyway um so that's what the 70s were like and then 1980 ordinary people ordinary people beats raging bull and the elephant man yes and then it's chariots of fire and gandhi and terms of endearment and those Ordinary People beats Raging Bull. Ordinary People beats Raging Bull and The Elephant Man. Yes. And then it's Chariots of Fire and Gandhi and Terms of Endearment and those big emotional message movies. Mel Brooks said that Ordinary People would one day be the answer to a trivia question. He said The Elephant Man will be seen as a great film. Oh, yeah.

Ordinary People's very much a kind of TV movie drama thing, isn't it? Albeit very well crafted one. Terms of Endearment. Right. Won Best Picture in 1983. We're doing like a sort of... I mean, anyone with access to Wikipedia. We're just reading out the names of films.

That, of course, starred... Jack Nicholson. James films. That, of course, starred... Jack Nicholson, James Earl Brooks, of course. Who's the producer? No, who directed it? Was it James Earl Brooks as well? I don't know. I'm just reading your Wikipedia. Yeah, and I've turned off data roaming, because I don't want to get charged too much. But I do think it benefits a film to have a good story around it because the awards

campaign seems to be so long that the more meat there is as it were whatever the heck that means that there's a good story about how it was made or or even if it's based on a true story then you've got the true story to talk about and how the film relates to the true story. And then if you have stars, they're always at a certain point in their careers or lives and so there's a narrative to talk about with them and how they're doing. And then if the shoot was incredibly difficult or challenging in some kind of way, that's another good narrative.

I think it's harder to write about, in some ways, the Coen brothers, even though they won the Oscar for No Country for Old Men, but it's hard to say a lot about them, other than they seem great and really interesting. But there's not a lot of drama surrounding them, is there? Whereas there's something about writing about William Friedkin it just goes chaos and people being slapped and mistakes and

drugs and it's a better story than there are two very intelligent diligent men who without much conflict, seem to consistently produce very good films. And here's another one.

Do you think there's a chance that one day you will sit down and The Revenant will come on? Right. And you will think, oh, I have totally misjudged this film. It is terrific stuff. Has that ever happened with any film that you've seen initially and thought, no, no, no, no, no?

And then you've seen its charms later on? Yeah, I think it does happen. I remember my favourite of the three colours trilogy was red. Whereas now I think blue might be... So now it's a bit of a vault vase. I thought we were going to have an hour long talk about Hanukkah and guilt. Oh yeah. I've got to talk about Hanukkah and guilt. Oh, yeah. I've got to do a Hanukkah guilt.

I feel like I don't know enough about... I've only seen funny games. I think that one really is an actual provocation, and the film made to say, OK, you think you enjoy violent films. I'm going to make a violent film that you just can't enjoy. Really? It just isn't going to be fun. It's going to be horrible for you

and it's going to stop any cathartic moment existing for you. So can you do a synopsis for anyone who hasn't seen that film? Well, Funny Games is about a bourgeois couple who go to stay in their country retreat. It's a couple and a young boy, and two... I don't know what you'd call them.

They're not exactly burglars. They're two kind of torturers appear. They look like totally regular, posh neighbours. Yes, but they're almost like clown biglars. There's a kind of shrewd older one well not necessarily old one and a kind of plump more dumb one they're almost like stock reformation drama characters and they slowly torture and kill them and that's the film and you keep thinking or at least i did that surely it can't go that way

and normally in a film like that the family would somehow turn the tables one would get away yeah they're completely in control that these torturers they one winks at the camera a bit like in tom jones the tony richardson film but there's a very, I guess, remarked-upon moment where you feel there's going to be that cathartic moment where the woman who's been brutalised manages to escape for a moment, grabs a gun and shoots her assailant, but then the other assailant just grabs a remote control,

rewinds the film that you are watching, and his accomplice isn't killed. So it has, I guess... I don't know, what would you call that? Well, I guess that's post-bobbing, isn't it? Or meta, at the very least. But, interestingly, before that, it lapses into the kind of film language and grammar that's consistent with those kind of thrillers,

so that when that bad guy as it were is shot you feel a moment of relief and then the moment of relief has denied you that he's going no you're not going to have that moment of relief so it's a really unpleasant experience and not a film I would particularly ever want to watch again I guess it's vaguely interesting as him saying, well, this really is what... What parts of violent films are you enjoying? And he has a moral... I don't know,

a moral point to make about the consumption of violence as entertainment. You see, if only I'd known all that before I'd gone to see it. I didn't know anything about it. I didn't know anything about him. I was told it was good. I went to see it, took it completely at face value and was confronted by this sort of appalling scene that I was, it was sufficiently well made and acted that I was invested in what

was happening and all the characters. And this horrific scene just unfolded and ruined my day. Yeah, I mean, it's horrible. I think he said something like the only correct response to the film is to leave. I mean, the way that you explained and unpacked Funny Games just now, you know, I find that really interesting. Right. And exciting and compelling.

I just wish I hadn't seen the actual film. But the idea of what he's doing as a piece of work, rewinding the film so that the audience is denied that cathartic stock outcome is brilliant. There is an argument for saying, well,

okay, well, don't do it to me. I'm on your side. There is a problem. That's the thing, it was an arthouse film, wasn't it? Yeah, you're kind of punishing the people. By a huge section of the audience.

It's not like everyone who likes Saw went, hey, funny games this afternoon. I've heard that's even, hang on, Hanukkah's self-reflexivity has made me question my enjoyment of it. And I think he has moved away from that in that I don't know

it's very interesting I think he has a preoccupation with guilt being an Austrian and there's a good deal of guilt to process I guess there and how do you get through life

as a bourgeois person consuming resources around these terrible circumstances of poverty and sadness and grimness? How do you live? You punish the rest of the bourgeoisie with your obscure films. But in some ways, you know that. Isn't that partially what very good writers do? Is that they say, what the hell do you think you're doing?

I don't know, even if it's like Hard Times by Dickens changing the poor laurel. Yeah. You sometimes need a brain like his to go, you need to really take a look at this. Hey, there are moments in everybody's life. Some are big

and some are small. Moments, I have done a selection of the big moments from my mind. Now I'm going to share them with you all. Moments, big moments. Moments, big moments. Yes, how are you? How are you bearing up? Yeah, it's good. I mean, it's fun for me.

Good. I don't know if I'll watch it when it's broadcast. No, you mustn't. No one must. No. It'd be best if the whole thing was buried in a wood. I like the show. I would watch it with other people on it. Sadly, I'm in them, so I can't watch them. Do you not like watching yourself on TV? No. No.

Do you like watching yourself? Well, we were talking about this, and I used to. When me and Joe did stuff together, when it was stuff that we'd shot ourselves, and we'd edited it, and I knew how it had turned out, I was really excited to watch it. Had you gone through a period of dissociation by watching your face repeatedly that it became another person? I just found that the experience of watching something that I had not made myself, i.e. appearing on someone else's programme

and making TV in a more traditional way, it was much more of a shock when I saw my stupid face at the end of it. Because you weren't managing the manner of the presentation. Yeah, exactly, because I hadn't been there to service my own vanity. Service your own face. Yeah.

Shepherd your own face to its best advantage. Yes. So have you thought of a big moment? Well, you know, the real answer is so sappy, would be my wedding would be that. Yeah. Not specifically... Is it possible to have a sparkling water, please? Sparkling water, one litre.

I'm just in the middle of a... I was going to open my heart. I know. You just first got to... What are you going to have, Richard? I'm going to have an Americano, please. Americano. And maybe a sparkling water as well.

Yeah, so we'll just get a litre and we'll share. Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you. So, yeah, you were about to get sincere for the first time in recorded history no but you know i can't really uh it'd be too sappy you had a good meeting my wife yeah marrying my wife and all of that in some ways the idea of a moment is maybe problematic anyway all right because otherwise it feels like there's this really good thing,

and then... Do you know what I mean? I think that's probably... Yeah, but I'm talking about moments in your life where you've just had a little momentary epiphany, you know what I mean, and thought, hey, I'm actually enjoying myself, or, oh, my gosh, I've suddenly understood something

about the way life works, or I must make sure I never do this ever again. Well, you know there's a current foremost trope which you get on websites which is a picture of something and the headline is something that moment when i don't know a good example that moment when we realized right jennifer lawrence was a hoot yeah which has Which has been established now, scientifically. She is a... But I see a lot written about hootage and Jennifer Lawrence being correlated.

And I never really look at the thing that substantiates that moment. But partly because I feel a small spike of irritation. For reducing life to a series of moments. Yeah, it's a bit like... That's the whole point of this section of the podcast. But,. Yeah, it's a bit like... That's the whole point of this section of the podcast. But, you know, it's a bit like a Bacardi-Brieser advert or something, that you just go, these moments, that bit when you were running...

I did a jingle. ..and this other thing happened. OK. You did a jingle for this whole... I'm anti-moment. Jesus Christ. I think I'm anti-moment. Yeah. I'm pro-slow, protractedracted yeah but that's what the main business

of life is slow protracted realizations and gradual transition yes that's good i'm talking about those there are times though joyce and epiphanies yeah you're after those when you just suddenly think oh i'm actually i'm genuinely happy and okay well those things would be happy and would be to do with meeting my wife and things like that, which I, you know, what am I going to say about that in a way that isn't just humiliating for her? Did you ever have a moment when you were making films, Submarine or The Double, where you thought,

okay, this is what it's all about? Casting is quite interesting in that it can feel terrible for a long time and then someone comes along where by the absolute dead nature of the thing that you have been involved with writing suddenly feels metabolized by that person and that's exciting in that you feel, oh, this could be possible now. Which actor did you have that with or which was one of the actors you had that with? With the film Submarine that I did, it was with Craig and Yasmin because Sally Hawkins and Paddy, I knew a tiny bit.

Paddy Considine. Paddy Considine. Paddy Considine. So I just asked them. You know, I'd seen enough of them to go, they'll be really good and they're always really good. And the same with Noah Taylor, who I've just loved for a long time since a film called Flirting.

And The Year My Voice Broke, which was the sort of precursor to that film. Yeah. So that was a big relief because I hadn't, you know, I guess doing comedy, quite often there's a gang of you and you know who's roughly going to be in it and who's going to be doing what. But the idea of writing a whole thing and then trying to find someone to be in it was quite daunting daunting especially a young

actor and so did you skip home that day after his audition metaphorically um i probably didn't i probably just felt slightly less anxious for a bit right and went okay have you always been anxious and sort of self-conscious i I think I have always been quite anxious. Well, comfortable in certain areas. Well, Chris Dickens, who's an accent editor, who co-edited the two films I've done, he told a story about how he did art at school and was, I think, pretty good at art,

and he was always destroying his work and it's not good um and the way he described it didn't sound like it was petulant but it was more just a and i think it's what makes him a really good editor it's that there's something in him that's always niggling and going it's not quite there which i think is quite a good quality for an editor to have. And I suppose that sense of always going, oh, I'm not really sure this is good enough. Is that the same as being anxious? It might be. Well, it's a form of anxiety. You're never quite content.

Yes, you're always thinking, yeah. And there are brief moments of respite from that like for example on both submarine and the double there's this camera called the arry 2c which stanley kubrick used a lot and finding that camera was really exciting every time we used that it was great what's so great about it well it's non-syncsync, so you can't quite get it to do 24 frames. So it flutters. It's not quite real speed. And when you look at some of the handheld and Kubrick films, there's something a bit off about it. And also the camera's quite light,

so you move in a slightly different way than you do a more heavy 35mm camera. So it has more exaggerated movement in every respect. The lenders are old, they're uncoated, they do strange things. Thank you very much. Thank you. Yeah, so those moments. We were just thanking ourselves for that conversation. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for that insight. Thanks for listening to me prattle on. Yeah, so those were little moments where you were having fun. And there are lots of moments where something comes off and you go, oh, that works, I can't believe it. Or when you first edit two shots together and they work,

I remember that. And it does seem like a magic trick that two things filmed at a different time cut together and it does seem like a magic trick that two things filmed at a different time cut together and it makes sense it just seems preposterous so I remember that when that first happened and me thinking I really

like doing this and those were all moments on Submarine well that was probably doing Darth Marenghi you guys used to spend so much time and care on the actual construction, technically, of the thing, on the soundtrack, and all those elements had been considered. And that must have been such fun, wasn't it?

Yes, that was, although we were pretty angsty about it all the time and always thinking it didn't work and we could make this thing better and it took ages yeah but like i mean the sound say on the double took four months you might say that's a misuse of time no not at all because something you can get into i think people appreciate it they They notice it. On their iPhones. Yeah, you've seen that bit of David Lynch. On an iPhone. On a fucking phone.

If you haven't seen it, listeners, it's David Lynch vocalising his outrage at the idea that people would watch a film on their phone. And that's the first time they've seen it. He says something like, you may think you've had an experience, but you've had nothing. You see, I don't agree with him.

Okay. I think that that is something that is sometimes true with certain films. Yeah. But I think you can immerse yourself. Maybe it's true with... I think Airbender has to be seen in large, hushed cinema

to get the most out of it. Yeah. But I think there are a lot of films that you can really immerse yourself in. Yes. And that you are drawn into, regardless of where you see them. If you're engaged, if a movie engages you,

you can watch it on a plane and it still makes a big impression i think it's possible i think it's harder it's different yeah right it's hard you know when you know you can pause it and in some ways you want a film to magnify things yeah it's harder to do that just no listen i'm not saying it's ideal hey that's exactly what you're saying and that's why i'm not letting you get away with it you were directly contradicting lynch hello adam buxton here again this part of the conversation was recorded at a cafe in the Lago di Carmo square, while the crew got set up to shoot a sequence in the nearby Elevador de Santa Giusta, a lift that takes travellers to Lisbon's higher streets and affords an impressive view of

the city. I recalled a friend of mine commenting on an interview they'd seen with Richard on Channel 4 News. My friend said that it seemed rather a tense exchange, so I wanted to ask Richard about it, but I should have reminded myself of the clip before asking him. I've watched it properly since then, and it was obviously supposed to be funny, but it was interesting hearing Richard's take on the whole interview process in general. So here I am, telling him what my friend said to me. Did you see that interview that Richard Ayoade did with Krishnan Guru Murthy?

OK. When you were promoting your book, Ayoade on Ayoade. Yeah. Which was kind of a spoofy film book. Yes. And what was the deal there? You went on and you sort of deconstructed the interview. Well, I didn't think I was particularly. What happened in my subjective take on it was that the person who was running publicity for Faber, who published the book, said,

would you like to go on Channel 4 News? Obviously, no, not particularly, as in I wasn't sitting around going, oh, yes, I'd love to. As soon as the opportunity presents itself, I'll go. But it was fine, and I said, that seems strange, because this isn't news in any way that I understand. And they said, no, they've got a new sort of strand on with a... Culture section.

Culture strand or whatever. And I went, OK. And then Christian Guru Murthy, is that how you pronounce it? Yeah, T-H rather than P-H. Yeah, Murthy. Who'd have a name that's unpronounceable? I mean, the disgrace of it. Phoned me to do a pre-interview and just say what we will discuss.

So the subject that I was being asked to talk about was interviews. They said, do you want to come on and talk about interviews? Because I think in a previous print interview, I said I find the interview situation somewhat awkward. And they said, well, do you want to talk about that? To which you might say, well, inherent in my position, perhaps no, not that much, but fine. I'm happy to talk about the fact that I find it awkward in some way. That's OK.

And then when he phoned, he said, would you like to talk about race in the media? I said, well, you know, that seems relatively broad as a subject. And my concern would be if I'm meant to be talking about interviews with some tangential connection to a book of which there will be a picture during the interview and therefore it's somewhat promotional, I don't know whether you can just show up, say something about it and retreat back into your little cage. If you're going to talk about something substantial...

Show up, say something about race you mean yes and then withdraw as someone who isn't particularly accountable for what they say yeah i sort of go well what would make me a person that should be listened to on that when really the only reason i'm on this is probably because I have a book to talk about. Which already is a bit of a dodgy reason to be on the news. I don't know. So I said, yeah, I mean, you can ask, but I probably... I didn't have any piercing insights. This is four minutes long, isn't it?

How long are we really going to be able to unpack it? What am I going to say exactly? I don't know. we'd have to see and so when it happened he sort of started in a kind of jocular way and then i just what i thought i did was just try to go along with the jokey tone that he'd established i got the sense that there was some information going into the earpiece which was like come come on, let's steer it back to something sensible. You can't just mess around here. Going into his earpiece, you thought?

I felt so, but I didn't know. And also I thought in some ways, you're vaguely booked as a comedian in some ways. Aren't you meant to in some ways be silly? Yeah. I don't think I'm really meant to go, hey, look, let's sort out some issues here, because I don't have a mandate for that from the public.

Right. I find it somewhat, I don't know, a bit silly when someone tries to grab the conch... Yep. ..and sound off. But at the time, it didn't feel like anything had happened. It felt no different to any interview that I've ever done, which is somewhat glib and substantial and a bit awkward.

What feedback did you get from it? Nothing. I think because he'd done an interview before with Quentin Tarantino, which had ended awkwardly, and then it became like, oh, he's the awkward... Awkward interview guy. ...interview guy. I don't know. I also don't think you have to answer every

question that's posed to you I guess maybe the thing was just that you're on the news take it seriously and maybe I didn't take it seriously right I didn't know that it was my job to take it seriously while promoting a comedy book did you see the Tarantino interview that he did? Yes. I liked it. I kind of thought Tarantino was okay. He was a tiny bit bad-tempered and brisk, maybe. He seemed quite irritated.

But I did think... Did you think it was a cheap shot from Krishnan? I just don't quite... So, listeners listeners again uh if you didn't see this was a an interview with tarantino to promote what was the film maybe it's jango unchained was it or or inglorious bastards anyways around that sort of time and i think at some point krishnan guru murthy he asked him about the possible link between movie violence and real life violence whether it has any effect yes and tarantino just immediately got irritated and dismissed yeah that line of questioning out of hand and said you know come on i can't believe

you're wheeling out that old chestnut yes i think that's okay though as in, I mean I didn't find Krishnan's questions annoying or irritating as they happened, I just thought in your interview you were talking about in the interview I did, I just didn't feel I was really being asked to be present as a serious correspondent

and I suppose also Tarantino was within his rights to go, I don't want to answer any of these questions, or I do or not. He's not a representative of anyone other than himself. I suppose you could say he's a representative of his film and of the people who funded his film. But beyond that, I don't know that he has to say anything else.

But I didn't think, answer the question, Tarantino, you're on the news. Right. Did you feel that? I thought it was silly to get irritated by. I thought it was a legitimate question and an interesting area of, you know, it's like an interesting topic. But also, I think sometimes, I remember seeing an interview with Paul Thomas Anderson where someone was saying, have you shown Tom Cruise, the master? Uh-huh.

And he kind of went, oh, come on, what am I going to say? He sort of goes, you're asking to disclose a private conversation at that stage. Why should he have to disclose that? I think there can be too much of an accent on the idea that if you ask anything, somehow the person has to just give it up. Yes, and also that people should be 100% consistent in everything they say and do. Yeah, or just on board. As if by agreeing to show up to something, the idea is that you are liable for full disclosure

right i don't know that that's a contract you can say well let's see how it goes we'll meet up let's see how it goes i think that can be a good contract isn't that every human interaction no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no human interaction. No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No!

This is an advert for Squarespace. Every time I visit your website I see success. Yes success. The way that you look at the world makes the world want to say yes. It looks very professional. I love browsing your videos and pics and I don't want to stop. And I'd like to access your members area and spend in your shop. These are the kinds of comments people will say about your website if you build it with Squarespace. Just visit squarespace.com slash Buxton for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, because you will want to launch,

And when you're ready to launch, because you will want to launch, use the offer code BUXTON to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. So put the smile of success on your face with Squarespace. Yes. Yes. Yes Oh, there goes the hairy bullet Super fast Rosie's happy You know, Rosie, in Rosie's world

Everything's going fine We're going for a walk And it's a nice evening so what's the problem no one's shouting racist abuse at rosie and um she's gonna get fed tonight and it's all good would that we all lived in that world uh That's my deep thought for the day. Anyway, listen, folks, that's it for this podcast with Richard Ayoade. And tomorrow you will find a whole other one, podcast number 25, which features more conversations from our time filming in Lisbon. And in part two, Richard and I enjoy some pillow talk.

We talk about pillows, so that's quite a funny thing for me to say. There's more big moments. And we have a serious talk about a serious subject. And let's face it, there's enough of those around these days, you know. Oh, thanks very much indeed to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for production support. Cheers, Seamus. You're the best. Right. Off to sort this rosy vote out. There's no, I'm not going to do a rosy vote. I think you know that, don't you? All right. Take care, listeners. Be nice to each other or I will hurl abuse at you and then the whole thing will just roll on.

Take care. I love you.