THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.79 - DAVID SEDARIS

Episode Date: October 12, 2018

Adam talks with American humorist David Sedaris about writing, failing to bond with Dads, football, eyeballs and colonoscopies.THANKS to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell for production support and Matt Lamont for additional editing.Music and jingles by Adam Buxton (except ‘Drivin’ On 9’ by The Breeders performed by Adam Buxton, Garth Jennings and Danny Richards, aka The Best Band In The World)RELATED LINKSDAVID SEDARIS ON MICROAGGRESSIONShttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKDW-MQR-QIPARIS METRO STORYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXfzRXxThOYDAVID SEDARIS JAZZ FAVOURITES SPOTIFY PLAYLISThttps://open.spotify.com/user/129999328/playlist/3qvYsiY3vduUj3WRLgn6UiDAVID SEDARIS IN THE STYLE OF BILLIE HOLIDAYhttps://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2r8gyi‘DAVID SEDARIS BLAMES POOR PEOPLE FOR LITTERING’https://www.westsussextoday.co.uk/news/world-famous-author-david-sedaris-blames-poor-people-for-littering-south-downs-1-6508018DAVID SEDARIS TALKS ABOUT SURVIVING THE SUICIDE OF A SIBLINGhttps://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/7bdvdg/remarkable-messes-0000671-v22n6 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening I took my microphone and found some human folk Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke My name is Adam Buxton, I'm a man I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan. Hey, how you doing, podcats? Adam Buxton here, back where I belong,

walking alongside the fields of East Anglia, United Kingdom, with my best dog friend, Rosie. How you doing, Rosie? How have you been since our last podcast together? Yeah, I've just been stuck in England the whole time while you ponced around over the summer. Went to France, went to festivals. Yes, indeed. Very lucky we are. Had a lovely summer and went to Latitude Festival. I call it Latitude, because everyone there is so middle class, they just drink lattes to Latitude Festival. I call it Latitude because everyone there is so middle class, they just drink lattes. Latitude. Okay, calm down, class war dog. What did you get up to

then, Rose? Oh, you know, I menaced a few rabbits. I got angry about Brexit, Boris Johnson being a dick, anti-Semitism in the Labour Party and that that Supreme Court judge did a wee on the carpet in a spare room and spent a lot of time under the sofa. Oh yeah, well, more or less the same as me then, except I got in more trouble than you did for weeing on the carpet in the spare room. Anyway, you go off ahead and have a fun time bouncing around in the fields, Rose, but I'm going to tell the listeners about podcast number 79, which features a sometimes silly, mildly offensive, and yes, I'm afraid, towards the end,

scatological chat with the brilliant American humorist, David Sedaris. I've been an admirer of David's since, well, I suppose the turn of the century, when a friend of mine recommended his book Me Talk Pretty one day, said it was the funniest thing she'd read. Like most of his books, including his latest, Calypso, it's a collection of essays, basically,

filled with hilarious and mordant anecdotes and observations about his own life, his friends and family. First time I've used the word mordant out loud, feeling quite smug. And David's writing is often extremely funny, but he certainly doesn't shy away from the melancholy and even tragic parts of life at times. David's fractious and very funny relationship

with his father, Lou, has also featured in many of his books, and Calypso is no exception. Though now, with Lou in his father Lou, has also featured in many of his books, and Calypso is no exception. Though now, with Lou in his 90s, there's a touching tenderness that's crept in when David writes about his dad. That's not to imply, however, that Sedaris has gone sentimental. No, his fascination and amusement with behaviour that's often considered weird, wrong or offensive is still very much in evidence,

as you'll hear occasionally in our conversation, which, incidentally, was recorded in London on a hot day back in early July of this year, 2018, in the week when many people started to believe that England might actually win the World Cup. Good old days, do you remember them? As well as talking about writing, which is what I've been trying to do for the last few months,

so I was interested to talk to David about his process, we talked about severed eyeballs, dads, football, tumours, colonoscopies. I also asked David about his hobby slash compulsion of picking up litter for up to eight hours a day in the country roads near where he currently lives in Sussex in the south of England with his artist boyfriend Hugh. As he describes in Calypso, David's obsessive commitment to cleaning up the countryside led to his local council naming a rubbish truck Pigpen Sedaris in his honour. council naming a rubbish truck Pigpen Sedaris in his honour. And he was even invited to Buckingham Palace, along with other public-spirited types, to be congratulated by her royal madge for his rubbish work. Oh, it's so great. You pick up all the rubbish on the side of the road. The people

have left there any chuckle or a lor a blind. It's a rubbish pick-up, isn't it? That's what the Queen said to David. I was very excited to meet David. I've been trying to get him on the podcast for ages and I kind of got to the point where I was convinced that he didn't want to come on because he thought I was a wally. The truth

was a little more prosaic. He just didn't know who I was and was busy. But as it turned out, we got on pretty well, I think. He liked the fact that we're a similar height and that informed the beginning of our chat. I'll be back with a little bit more waffle at the end of the podcast. But right now, here we go.

Ramble chat, let's have a ramble chat. We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that. Come on, let's chew the fat and have a ramble chat. Put on your conversation coat and find your talking hat. Yes! There's a certain amount of small man syndrome that comes through in your writing. You're aware of it, you're conscious of it. But I don't like being a small man. Well, I've grown've grown to like it as it were i've shrunk to like it but i didn't like it when i was younger you know i think the difference is if you're straight because if

you're gay there are all kinds of guys out there who want a small guy oh okay so but i met a woman i was at a book signing a couple months ago, and this woman came up and said, should I so appreciate what you've written about suicide? And I said, oh, do you have a family member who committed suicide? She said, no, my son keeps threatening to. And I said, oh, is he mentally ill? And she said, no, he's short. He's 5'2".

And I thought, well, that's just ridiculous. I said, he needs to move to the Philippines. I mean, there are other options. You know, aside from killing yourself, move to Mexico. Move to the Philippines. Move to a place where people are short. And you'll be the average height. Problem solved.

It's not that hard to learn Spanish. I think short people have a narrative that suggests, and it's reinforced by books you read occasionally i'm thinking of some malcolm gladwell book where he talks about how tall ceos are and generally people in power are tall you know it speaks to how simple human beings are that you see a big tall person and you think oh okay i'm gonna do what they tell me so short people sometimes have that inferiority and they just feel powerless in that way. And they think, oh, all these things are going to be denied to me because I'm just too small.

No, I've got to say, I never felt that way. It's funny when you're arguing with somebody and then they say, you little. And I think, wow, how long has that been in there? When was the last time someone said, you little, when they were arguing with you? I was signing books in Londonondon and i wrote something in this woman's book and she said you horrible little man no way with a smile on her face though no you horrible little man all i done was call her daughter a whore come out with that that was one of my dad's favourite expressions.

Horrible little man. I think it was maybe he had a sergeant in the war who used to call him a horrible little man. O-L-M. Horrible little man. You sign books for up to 11 hours. That's your record, though, right? I think 10 hours and 45 minutes is my record. Wow.

So not quite 11 hours. And do you enjoy it while you're doing it this is after shows you sit down and yeah i don't ever look beyond the person in front of me this woman came up a while ago i want you to write my son keeps trying to see you but the tickets are only sold out so i want you to write to brian i hope you see me before i die and i I said, I said, let me rephrase that. So I drew a tombstone with Brian's name on it. And I said to Brian, you are dead to me. And then she got all upset. I don't want that in my book. And I said, Oh, come on. I said, it's much better. I don't want that in my book. So I covered it up with stickers. And I said, but I'm still not going to write what you want me to

and then she left in a huff and demanded her money back no way but see I would have kept her until I liked her but she didn't give me the opportunity because you just want to say sometimes I'll be signing books and someone will say you drew a picture, I saw you draw a picture I want a sticker too

and it's like don't try to control this yeah you know i'm professional and what i come up with to write in your book i guarantee you is so much better than what you're gonna except one time this kid came up and he said i want you to write in my book to blair you were like a son to me. And I said, of course, I'd be so happy to write that. It was such a good thing to write in somebody's book. You were like a son to me.

Someone you've never met. Yeah. I was going to ask you, seeing as we've mentioned your live shows I was interested in the process of writing your books and to what extent you hone the material that goes into them in the course of doing live shows is it a bit like the way a comedian might do things so that you are working up material live and seeing what lands with an audience. And then when you're happy with that, it goes into a book. It's exactly that way.

So I just finished a tour. I went to 42 cities and I started with three new stories. And then I would read them out loud and go back to the room and rewrite them, read them, rewrite them. read them, rewrite them. And so everything in my book has been read in front of an audience at least 60 times. So by the time the book comes out, I am sick of it. The thought of reading any of those essays one more time. But I appreciate the opportunity to edit in front of an audience. I recently had to write this thing. I was on tour, and this television show wanted me to write a three-minute essay.

And I had, like, maybe three days to do it. But I was so grateful, because I wrote it right away, read it in front of a bookstore audience that night, rewrote it, read it in front of a bookstore audience the next night, rewrote it. So at least I had... because i hate having to publish something without having a chance to read it out loud

like i have a story in the new yorker this week and my editor we were working on it last week and she said maybe we cut this bit right here and i said that is the second biggest laugh in the whole story and i'm not willing to part with it and I'm glad I knew that because I'd already read it out on stage like 30 times. And is that always the way you wrote? Did you do that in the early days when you were first writing? Were you going and doing stuff in clubs? Yeah, but when I was reading things in Chicago, I always took each assignment as an opportunity to write something new. So I would write something brand new and read it out loud

and then rewrite it based on reaction, but I'd never read it again because I would want something new for the next. Because I knew people when I lived in Chicago who would drag the same thing around. And you'd think, oh my God, I've heard that. You're still doing that, yeah. Times. And it just seems, when you're young, just to stack up the pages, that's what you want to do.

I read somewhere yesterday, somebody was saying you've got like 2,000 pages worth of really awful material in you. And you just need to get those out but i have known other people who would take when i moved to new york city people who would take writing workshops and they would go to the writing workshop with something they wrote three writing workshops ago like they hadn't they're dragging this piece around and it's like you know the point is to learn from your mistakes move on but then do you ever have the opportunity to read back early pieces that maybe weren't read out so many times and think wow i wish i had they could be a lot leaner or do you not feel oh yeah no i feel that way all the time okay right um because

your stuff now there's nothing spare really is there i mean every line does a job well i think too when you're reading something 60 times you realize this line is not worth repeating you know it's just not worth it's not advancing anything it's not getting me a laugh it's not coloring anything in that can really go whereas sometimes i think if you've never read it out loud and you have an editor i just like to learn as much as i can on my own before giving it to an editor. Yeah. But see, like with comedy, it just seems to me, when I was on my book tour, they said no photos or videos, right?

So then you start reading and then there's people videotaping you, right? so then you start reading and then there's people videotaping you right i think it must be worse if you're doing comedy because maybe you're trying something and maybe it doesn't work or maybe you're telling jokes that do work like when you when i go on youtube and i look at comedians i'll listen to somebody say something and i'll say oh my god it's so funny and then i'll look at another video of them and they do it again. Yeah. And I feel betrayed in a way. Uh-huh.

So that's what I object to. Like my shtick, I don't want people recording my shtick. And shtick advances throughout the course of a tour. You know, a theme might develop. But that's the way I do it. Like a theme just develops. Like toward the end of this tour that I was just on,

a woman came and told me about a friend of hers who has a pug. And the pug had an operation on one of its eyes, so it had a cone around its neck. And it just would not shut up about the cone, so she took the cone off to get some peace and quiet. And then the pug scratched at his eye with his back leg so hard that his eye popped out. Mate. And he ate it.

Oh. He ate his own eye, right? So this woman told me this story. So I wrote about it in my diary. And then I read it the next night. And somebody came up and said, that is so funny. She said, I'm a psychiatrist with the prison system. We had a guy who was a meth addict and he dug both of his eyes out with a teaspoon and he ate one.

Shut up. He ate one, but he couldn't find the other. Big problem when you dig both your eyes out with a teaspoon. And then. Just feeling around for it. And then somebody else came up and said that there was another person who dug one of his eyes out with a spoon because

he thought there was a camera behind it. I see a theme developing. So I'm going to... I'm starting this UK tour and I'm going to read that every night and I'm going to try to get more and more stories about people or animals, you know, digging out their eyes and or eating their eyes. And I'm sure I could Google eye-popping out stories, but I don't want, I want to get it organic, and I want people telling me about it.

It feels like a sort of classical motif, doesn't it? That's something that's probably popped up in Greek mythology a lot. Well, didn't Oedipus... Oedipus, he had other fish to fry, didn't he? Well, do we have an Oedipus complex, is that it? But I don't think that that has anything to do with digging your eyes out. Did he dig his eyes out because he shagged his mum and killed his dad? I think so.

And he just thought, ah, there's only one thing to do now. I've done everything else. so you're very funny about your dad you talk about doing a sold-out show in your hometown and is that in Raleigh yeah yeah I think we call that Raleigh in the UK right in Raleigh North Carolina and your dad says yeah well I was waiting for you to walk out on stage and I counted 30 empty seats and you say that's this is him all over the place accommodates more than 2,200 people all he can see are the unoccupied chairs that really made me laugh and he does that every time

every time he counts the empty seats and then tells me about it afterward what kind of a person does that? well what kind of person does that? if I said my show sold out it sold out I didn't even mention that it sold out so then to say that to somebody yes but you must know this you know you run into people let's say if things go well for you you run into people and they'll say things

like oh you know i read that part of the first book but in the second one i couldn't even really even begin to get through it. And it was somebody who you were friends with and I just wouldn't say that. Like if you asked me for my opinion about something, that's different. But if you didn't ask my opinion,

why would I... You know, it would just be hurtful for me to say that to you. be hurtful for me to say that to you. Or hurtful for me to say, oh, I invited a lot of people here with me, but none of them ever, none of them had any idea who you were. Yeah. I always think, like, why would you say that to somebody?

Isn't it their way of sort of keeping you in check? Because they think... Yeah, but they don't know me anymore. I feel like I'm you in check because they think yeah but they don't know me anymore i feel like i'm perfectly in check and i don't need them to do that job for me but maybe you loom large in their thoughts and they imagine you having this brilliant life and being lauded and praised everywhere you go and they think well i'm not going to do that because i know this guy of old so i'm just going to take him down a peg and he'll understand yeah and maybe that's what's happening with your dad as well is it could be yeah him just

sort of going don't get too big for your boots well no I think my father the problem is that I'm not what he told me to be if he had told me to be a writer then he'd be completely happy what did he want you to be well he just kept telling me i should get a job in computers i needed to learn i mean if he had pointed me in this direction he could take some credit for it it would be different but he was and was he ibm or ibm yeah but it's not like he wanted me to follow in his footsteps or be an engineer. I just don't think he, he just never liked me. You know what I mean? Like, I always felt like if he could have traded me in for another son, if they had like a son swap,

I would have been gone. I wouldn't made it the first grade I would have been exchanged in a son swap but I wouldn't have changed him in for anybody else because I feel like I'd rather have a father who says I counted 30 empty seats because I can write about that. And that's interesting to write about. And it's, you can't write about, I don't know, like perfectly lovely, nice people. It doesn't, nobody cares. Or it's not, there's no tension to it.

So he just provided me with like, you know, a lifetime of really good material. Plus, he's there at the show. He's there at the show, I think, partly because he just wants attention for himself. I had a similar sort of relationship with my dad who was, I used to do a TV show in the UK called The Adam and Joe Show with my best friend Joe. And we, at one point, got my dad involved as a kind of youth correspondent. And he's not alive anymore. He died a few years ago, aged 92.

So he was old. Oh, wow. He was a septuagenarian when we were on tv and we'd go to festivals with him and we'd film him jumping around in the mosh pit of a foo fighters gig you know but my wish was always i always fantasized that one day we would sit down and we would bond and we would say all the things that we'd never said but it never really happened i also fantasized that he would see the value in the things that really mattered to me pop music pop culture in various forms but he just thought even more i think by the end of it that it was all you know it's just worthless you didn't watch the

football the other day did you the penalty shoot No, I've never watched a football match in my life. I don't think I have either. But my son is into football. And as a bonding exercise of my own, but I think because I'm, you know, I'm having a bit of a midlife crisis, thinking about my dad a lot and then interested in reading about yours, etc.

So that affects the way I am with my children now. I'm trying to manufacture these little moments which will signal to them in the future they can think back on them and think oh yeah he did like me a bit because he did that thing and we watched it we watched the football so i said let's watch the football who's who's gonna watch the football i'll watch the football and they know very well i couldn't give a fuck about football so it's like i'm brilliant what a brilliant dad we're gonna watch football, even though I fucking hate football. That's how great I am.

And that's how much I love you. So we sit down, we watch the football. And I pick the best match I could have watched ever. England v. Colombia. I knew enough to know that we had a reasonable chance of winning. They were lower in the world score table than we are or whatever. And I missed the first half. So I get there when it's 1-0 to us.

And then in the last minute or two, Colombia get one in, which means that we have to go and do the penalty shootout. So it's really, really tense. You can imagine the unbelievable pressure on a player in that situation it really boggles the mind so so i found myself totally invested in this from the point of view of the goalies and the and the players who had to score it was electrifying so by the end of it i was just screaming you know and it was it was really a fantastic moment and i suddenly thought

oh i get it i i i. I'm part of it now. I'm part of, I understand what people get from this, you know, and I'm connected to all the other fans. Because I used to be ideologically opposed to football, I think. I always thought, well, that's something that the jocks like. I'm with the sensitive nerds and the art people. And we're opposed to them did you read

Among the Thugs by Bill Buford no but I remember the book he spent a couple years hanging out with football hooligans and it's a non-fiction book and there's a scene in the book where this drunk football fan pushes a cop down

on the ground sits on top of him puts his mouth over the cop's eye sucks his eyeball out of his head and bites it off of the stem I didn't know you could do that it never occurred to me you could do that

it's another eye story for your except that's in someone else's book but still worth a reference but i wonder like when you say you wish that you could bond yeah i mean it sounds like your dad had a vocabulary, at least for that. You know, no, not emotionally. I think he found that all a bit embarrassing and a bit vulgar. And I think he he certainly didn't like the modern trend for talking about one's feelings, ad nauseum, you know. And actually, I was going to say to you that it's something that I felt like I identified in your writing was that you don't specifically talk about your feelings you talk about events and you describe things that happen and the way you feel about those things is implied sometimes but but often not you know and actually it ends up giving the

reader something much richer I think is. Is that a deliberate decision? Well, I noticed I started keeping a diary 40 years ago. Yeah. And I never, I had to go through all my diaries because I've been releasing an edited collection of them. And I don't talk about my feelings. You know, I don't, I don't know, and I'm not interested when people talk about their feelings like i'd rather hear a story but if someone said oh my boss did this and it made me feel like i was

not really valued and it made me feel like i'm like i'd rather hear what your boss said and what you said back then your feelings i don, you know, sometimes you meet people and they just talk exclusively about their feelings. And I don't like being around those people so much because I think it's kind of boring. So, I don't know, I'd rather describe the events and then have it implied through dialogue what it is that you feel

than to waste time talking about feelings. If I tried to have a talk with my dad, when I see my dad, he says, How the hell are you? How's your health? How the hell are you? How's your health? How's your health? How are you feeling?

But he never developed a vocabulary. Like, if i were to say to him like it's fine that you didn't like me i meet people who i don't like but can you tell me was there something i said or did he he wouldn't be able to say to me like you know you were born and i mean his father never liked him. You know, he didn't tell me that, but I mean... He won't refuse to talk about him, and I've never heard him say, like,

oh, I remember one time we did this or that. So, you know, that's what he grew up with, so it's not... And again, I'm not saying this in a... I don't want anybody's pity. Sure. I just... I meet people I don't like, and in a, I don't want anybody's pity. I just, I meet people I don't like, and I meet children I don't like. I mean, it sounds harsh in today's world, you know, where you're supposed to, you know, it's all about self-esteem and it's all about, but, you know, it's sort of like hitting your kids.

I mean, it was just normal to hit your kids when I was a child. I mean, you'd be hit with things. You'd be hit with... My dad kept a big serving spoon next to his place at the table, and I had to sit next to him. And if I said anything that made my sisters laugh, wham, he'd bring the spoon down on the top of my head. Oh. Which would just make me laugh even harder.

It hurt. But the sound of it,. Oh. For... And which would just make me laugh even harder. Because it hurt. But the sound of it, and I would think, too, it must have looked pretty funny. You know? And if you put your hand up to protect it, you'd get your knuckles. And that would be even worse. Yeah, man. But, see, again... It's abuse, David.

Well, now it would be thought of as abuse. Well, it is technically. But back then, you knew it was probably happening next door abuse well it is back then you knew it you know it's probably happening next door as well yeah yeah yeah do you feel that you have to tiptoe a little bit more in a world where feelings take the lead I mean I don't have a job and life for people with jobs is so very different now you You know, the things that... I mean, I talked to somebody yesterday who has a real job in an office

and he told a woman he liked her hair and he got into trouble. Oh, really? Because it was calling undue attention to her hair. Okay. So... Maybe he said it really sarcastically. Well, he said, you know, the person got offended,

but you're not allowed to argue with their sense of offense. Yes. You can't say to them, you're getting upset over nothing. You can't say that to people anymore. So it just made me think I wouldn't survive five minutes in that world. Not at all. Right. And I'm just so glad it's not my world.

Yeah. I mean mean it happens you know when you're on stage people are going to be offended and people are going to be I was reading something in the UK a couple years ago and it was a story from the book

it was an early draft of it but my sister Lisa was with my father in Raleigh and they were going to church for a meeting with the priest on a Sunday afternoon, and this black man exposed himself to them. And my father turned around so they could see it again. And I said, well, it's 1968, Raleigh, North Carolina. For a black man to expose himself to a white woman meant more than, I'm not saying it's fair, but it would be punished more severely. And so my father's reaction to turn around and see it again

is even more surprising. Plus, I'm a writer and I'm painting a picture, and I want you to see the world that I'm describing here and then she said well when you're saying that somebody's black you're saying everybody else is white and I said yeah let's operate from that assumption

unless I tell you otherwise but if I was a black writer and if I said a white woman came to the door it's the same thing it's the writer's universe we're seeing the world from there, through their eyes. It's not racist.

Yeah, but I suppose the argument is that in a, you want to aspire to a kind of post-racial utopia and a person's race or colour should only be mentioned if it's absolutely germane to the right point of the story which as you said it historically it adds but in that case it was so then afterwards i was during the q a i was i'd just been to buckingham palace for this event uh and i said waiters were circulating with trays silver trays and i looked at this woman on the second row and I said, some of them were black. Anyway, she stomped out of the theater.

Stomped out. Like, just, her feet were so heavy on the floor. And I just, I don't know. I just thought she was being such a baby about it. What were you doing at Buckingham Palace? The Queen has a day when she invites do-gooders. And so I was invited as a do-gooder to Buckingham Palace. Because of your racial insensitivity?

That and picking up rubbish. Picking up rubbish. I read an article in your local online newspaper. You live in Sussex. Mm-hmm. And I found a piece. What was the headline? Hang on.

David Sedaris blames poor people for littering. Oh, no. No. That was, I was invited to testify before the House of Commons. Uh-huh. About litter. And it was me. And it was a woman who owns five McDonald's franchises.

Okay. And the head of the tobacco manufacturers. And I got up there and I said, I'm nobody. You know, I'm just a layperson. I just pick up rubbish. All I know is what I find, you know. And, you know, I find Red Bull cans more than anything, followed by Lucozade.

And I find crisp packets. I said, for every one... There's a Tesco, a Waitrose, and a Sainsbury, an equal distance away from me. For every one Waitrose bag, I find ten Tesco bags. And there was an MP there, and he tweeted David Sedaris, just blamed the poor for litter. And that was just explaining what I found. And there was a transcript of that, but nobody bothered reading the transcript, right? It was

just easier to go by this guy's tweet. And there was, it was the first time I'd ever been put through the machine that way. And there were articles everywhere, like making me sound like a horrible snob. I'm just, like, my thing is, if you want to curb this problem, you've got to find out who's doing it. And you've got to speak to them to act like it's not. And I don't know who it is. That's kind of what's really interesting to me about it is that a lot of times if i say that person's going to litter nope that's not the person who litters it's somebody else i was on the train once and there was this guy drinking vodka mixed with some kind of juice or something that came that way in a in a bottle and i'm sitting next to him on the train and he finished his his bottle. He puts it at his feet.

He finishes another bottle. Meanwhile, there's a table full of people across the aisle wearing suits and they're having coffee and crisps and stuff. At the end of the journey, the guy who's drinking vodka collects both his bottles and takes them with him.

And the people at the table leave everything behind. I've seen a woman in Kensington pick up after her dog and then throw the bag of dog shit into a bush but anyway i just said that and it's true for every one waitrose bag i find what 10 tesco bags like why can't that just be true why does it have to be that's something that's always puzzled me about the UK, is I remember the first time I heard Waitrose mentioned, it was some people in, British people who were in Normandy. And I said,

what's Waitrose? And the woman said, Waitrose is, well, it's a cut above. And people act like Waitrose is, I don't know, Fortnum & Mason or something. And I'm like, what is it, something like three cents more expensive than it would be? I just don't see the huge difference. The service is very good, David. But it's the same thing like in New York. If you say to someone in New York, where do you live? And you say, I live in Soho. They'll say, oh.

Or if you say, I live on the Upper East Side, they'll say, oh, okay. But in London, if someone says, where do you live? And if you say, oh, I live in Kensington. Well, that's posh. As if you move there to make them feel bad. And it's like, why do you have to get this lip all the time? You know, I mean, and you hear the same thing like, oh, I bought this thing at Waitrose. Oh, well, it's like, oh my God, you've got to be kidding me. It costs like what?

Four cents more and it's eight blocks closer to my house than Tesco. Like, what's it? Why do you have to comment on it? I'm not rubbing your nose in anything. I'm just living my life and it's four cents. Who was it that talked about the classless society? Was it David Cameron? I can't remember, but whoever

it was, you just sort of thought, no, we're not there yet. No. That's something you really, really notice here that's so different than in the United States. You know, when in the United States you're just raised to believe that, okay, maybe you don't have anything today, but tomorrow that could all change.

That's why all these people with nothing are happy that donald trump had these tax cuts for wealthy people because they're thinking i could be wealthy next week so i'll come in handy then doesn't matter that they don't have anything now we just i mean sometimes i like that optimism. I mean, I think it comes across as Pollyannaism often here. But there's something to be said for just not being like, you know, thinking life is crap all the time. It's just something you notice when people say,, when people say, oh, what's the difference between

British audiences and American audiences? It's just one of the things that I notice is that people seem more attuned to that here. I mean, there's something I wrote in my diary that I was flying from

Hawaii to Portland, Oregon. And I was in from Hawaii to Portland, Oregon. And I was in first class. And this woman walked in on her way to coach. And she said, look at you. She said, seated up front. Lucky you. It's a great spot for people watching.

And I said, it could be. But we don't really count you as people. but we don't really count you as people. And people, British audiences are like nothing. Oh, really? I mean, clearly, I wouldn't have said that if I meant it, you know? And Hugh was horrified. My boyfriend Hugh was sitting next to me.

He was horrified. But the woman laughed. What's the story you've got about the flight attendants getting their revenge when they come down the aisle with the rubbish? Oh, when the passengers are horrible, the flight attendants in America come down with the bag at the end, and they say, you're trash. You're trash. your family's trash. it would between a geezer and his mate. All right, mate. Hello, geezer. I'm pleased to see you. There's so much chemistry.

It's like a science lab of talking. I'm interested in what you said. Thank you. There's fun chat and there's deep chat. It's like Chris Evans is meeting Stephen Hawking. I don't live in the world that most people live in. You're not on Twitter? No, I'm not on Twitter.

I have a Facebook page, but I've never looked at it. But I know people get so mad when they want to hate on you and you don't have a platform to receive their hatred. Yeah. You know what I mean? Gosh, they get so mad. Right. And presumably you don't read stuff platform to receive their hatred yeah i mean gosh i get so mad right and do you know presumably you don't read stuff that's written about you you don't seek it out no i don't read anything i've never googled myself i don't read reviews i don't read interviews that i give um no i just feel like it's none of my business because obviously people are very much invested in

in your life you know and you write about it and they're trying to unpick to what degree you're being honest about the details of what goes on in your life and to what degree it's sort of hyperbole and license and uh it drives them nuts huh well I mean I get so this is some people I'm not saying I've had people come up and say you didn't have a woman didn't cut a tumor out of you and it's like well I have the scar and I have her number

I mean if you want to ask her but of course she did like I wouldn't I don't know it just wouldn't occur to me to make that up. You know, I mean, so often people say no and just shut everything down. Like, so a woman comes up and says, I'll cut that tumor out of you.

I don't say no. This was after a reading that you'd done, is that right? Yeah. I don't say no to that. I say yes to that. How is it that she knew you had a tumor? I talked about it on stage. I had this tumor and I wanted to feed it to a turtle.

And so I went to a surgeon and he said he could cut it out, but he wouldn't give it to me. It was against the law. So I was grousing about that on stage and this woman came up and she said, I'll do it. She said, I'm a doctor, I'm not a surgeon. But, you know, if I cut you open and it's more than I can handle, I'll sew you back said I'm a doctor I'm not a surgeon but you know if I cut you open and it's more than I can handle

I'll sew you back up and send you on your way I said great I mean if somebody comes up to me and they're drunk after a reading and they're like you're going to come out you're going to get a drink

no I'm not going to do that but if it's a situation where somebody seems funny or interesting to me, I want to say yes. And again, so many people just say no.

I can't tell you how many times I'm signing books and somebody comes up and says, Oh, I have some cookies I made for you. And I say, Oh, thank you so much. And then I put the cookies out. You know, I might have one or two. And then I put them on the signing table. And people say, I'm not going to eat those.

They could be poison. And it's like, who would go through all that trouble to poison something? Like, I'm so glad I don't think like them, you know? Yeah. Why were you going to feed your tumor to a turtle? Well, I just always thought, you know, like if you had your tonsils out,

your cat would want to eat your tonsils. Why would you waste them? When you think about all the people who get like a leg amputated, and that just goes to waste when there are alligators out there, crocodiles, animals at the zoo. I'd be so happy to have a human leg.

It's just wasteful. And so I had this tumor, and there are these turtles, these snapping turtles, near our beach house in North Carolina. And I thought, hmm, I bet one of these turtles would like to eat my tumor. And he did. He was delighted to have my tumor. Isn't a tumor, by definition, spoiled? Not to a snapping turtle. I mean, this was a fatty tumor, so it wasn't cancerous.

But I bet eating a cancerous tumor is not going to give you cancer. You don't reckon? I mean, you do have to wonder what it would taste like. When people have a big snowball-sized thing in their uterus, you know, that the doctors take out and they say it's harmless. I always wonder what did it smell like? Did it smell like danger or did it smell like everything else? I'd say there's a good chance it didn't smell good.

But I spent a week at the medical examiner's office in Phoenix, and all these people, you know, it was performing autopsies on people all day, and they'd cut somebody open, like gut them, and then the smell would arise. And it wasn't like they'd been dead for a long time, so that's what you were smelling. It was just the smell of organs.

And I won't say it stunk, but it had a smell like we are not used to. Mm-hmm. You know? It was a smell... It was a smell to me that said, Danger. Like, get away from this.

This could be really bad for you. Yeah. It's that when you cough things up sometimes. Well, but a turtle, you know, or an alligator, they just eat things whole. Like a dog does too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're going to munch you organs.

A dog would eat a tumor. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it would swallow it and then it'd be like, yeah, yeah. They're going to munch you organs. Dog would eat a tumor. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it would swallow it and then it'd be like, fuck, was that a tumor? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. I pass the hotel. Look at the pipes. Diving on net. Looking for the good. Perhaps I pass it.

Go another mile. Diving on net. So I heard you on another podcast, or it was a radio show, which involves rambling, with Claire Balding. in Sussex and you frame the fact that you spend a very large part of your day picking up litter as a symptom of OCD is that correct so you're not talking about OCD in the in the sort of colloquial way that some people do when they just like things neat and they say OCD well I mean my house is neat so I just moved out into the world in general but is it a condition though is it a sort of diagnosed condition sometimes I feel myself out of control in a way that

the times that I've had this things going on in the past it's that same feeling that I get like I don't have any control over it anymore I don't have any control over it anymore I can't it's not that I don't want

to stop literally I cannot stop is it uncomfortable talking about it? but I was out I started going out again like when I'm at home I walk between 18 and 22 miles a day with your fitbit

yeah but now i go out again after midnight or sometimes sometimes just after 11 o'clock i'll go out but there's a two-lane road a couple miles from my house and it's filthy but at night there's not that much traffic on it right but there are places where there's no verge right so it's and i'll be there it'll be like one o'clock two o'clock in the morning and and i'm on this road with no verge and i'm kind of keeping my eyes out for cars coming and i can go to one and i and then there's a gum wrapper there and I see the gum wrapper and the car is coming but I have to get that I have to get the gum wrapper and and one night the police stopped me and I was just flattened against the hedge and the police stopped and they said are you all right and I said I'm fine thank you and I

haven't turned my head to look at them. I'm fine. They said, do you really think this is the best time to be picking up rubbish? And I said, actually, it's the best time, you know, because there's no traffic. And they said, carry on. But I get this feeling sometimes, maybe it's what bipolar people feel when they're high, and you're kind of soaring, Sometimes, maybe it's what bipolar people feel when they're high. And you're kind of soaring.

And it's like you're not in control anymore. Something else is in control. And I guess that's how I know that it's bigger than I am. It's more, I don't have, it's not anything I have control over. And a lot of people fly tip. And so now I'm like a complete detective. And I find bags. I open them, go through them.

Like I found somebody had topped up his cell phone. So I called the police and I said, here's his number right there. And they said, well, we don't have any record of who he is unless he's ever called us. And I said, it doesn't matter. I said, you call this number and you tell him you have your eye on him. He said, that doesn't matter. I said, you call this number and you tell him you have your eye on him. He said, that's a good idea.

I'm like, seriously, I have to tell you this? Because when you grow up watching Sherlock Holmes and stuff, you think that the British are so good at solving crimes. I got stopped by a cab driver in the country a couple months ago. And he said, I've seen you out here for years picking up rubbish, so I wanted to tell you this. He said, I had a woman in my cab a week ago, and she said, do you mind if I roll down the window?

I want to throw out this McDonald's bag. And he said, you know, I said, I told her, I'll throw you out if you do that. And she said, it gives somebody a job, doesn't it? And you hear that a lot. It gives somebody a job, doesn't it? And you hear that a lot. Give somebody a job. Like, as if

they should be congratulated for it. Right. And it's true. Like, people see me out there and maybe they think, oh, it gives that old crazy person a job.

But, I mean, I could, I'd be out there walking anyway. I don't need to be... They're not doing me any favors. Right? And then I've had people come up and tell me that I'm paid by the council.

And I'm like, no, I'm not. Yes, you are. The council pays you. I should know if the council pays me. They don't. You know? I mean, I feel like the council should say you know what let's just forget about your council tax and you just keep that but i'm not going to complain i i mean in a way if i were being paid for it then i would feel like i couldn't go on tour or something i couldn't

but you know i was cleaning up in front of this woman's house one day. You'd think her house was abandoned, all the rubbish in front of her house. And then I tie off, and she comes out and says, what are you doing? I said, I'm cleaning up your front yard. Oh, thank goodness, I was going to call the council. I said, that's okay, I got it. And then I tie off the bag, and she said, you're not going to leave that here. And I said, yeah. I said, I'll call the council, they'll come pick it up tomorrow. No no you can't leave it in my yard now she should have said to me let me put it in my bin that's what she should have said

and then I saw her a couple years later and I'm walking along she said oh there's some rubbish over there I said then pick it up I was thinking like traveling by plane as often as you do pick it up. I was thinking like traveling by plane as often as you do you must be vulnerable to

getting colds and things like that or is that an urban myth that you're because of the pressurized environment and the air conditioning in there you're just I don't know if it's pressurized environment and air conditioning I think it's just being around people, you know, and touching things that they've touched.

Do you come down with colds and flus and infections a lot? Yeah, but I was lucky on that last... I went to 42 cities and I didn't get sick at all this last trip. But there have been other tours where you just get that flat-out flu, you know. And I never cancelled a show ever I had a kidney stone one night and I get back to the hotel at 1 o'clock in the morning and wham

I've had them before so I know what's going on and it is a pain that doubles you over it comes out of nowhere, it doesn't build up it just begins what is a kidney stone i believe it's a bit of calcium that forms in your kidney and then it dislodges and that's a problem and then it heads through your urinary tract so you can sense it and you starts in your back and then it goes all the way through you and it goes in through your balls and goes up through your penis and every bit the way, it causes unbearable pain.

Right. So it wants to be pissed out. Yeah. It wants to be. So often what they want to do is give you an anti-inflammatory to open the path. Right. Okay. Get you nice and relaxed.

And I guess when it's awful, they have to cut it out of you. And I guess when it's awful, they have to cut it out of you. So I'm in this horrible pain, and I go down to the lobby, and I'm staying in a shitty hotel. It's a Holiday Inn, and there's not an elevator, so I have to walk down the stairs. Right. And I said to the woman at the desk,

I said, can you call him? Can you call a cab, a taxi for me? I have to go to the hospital. And so she calls a cab company, and they don't answer. And then she says, there's another one I can call. And I'm like, I mean, a color has gone from my face. And then she calls another one, and they can only come for 45 minutes. And she said, I'll drive you to the hospital. And so we get out to her car.

That's nice. And it's filthy. I've never in my life seen... I mean, it's the kind of car where you open it up, and all these cans and cups fall out of it, you know, just from opening it up. But I thought... it was so sweet of her to give me a ride to the hospital but i i thought i couldn't as much pain as i was in i

couldn't shut off the judgment part of my brain for like oh my god really this is what your car looks like you couldn't take you know an extra 10 minutes a week to clean it out but but so i was in the hospital all night and they released me at seven o'clock in the morning at nine o'clock in the morning i flew to my next city and kidney cell was still in me but i was on these anaphylum anyway even then i went on stage have you ever had had a uh i had an mri colonoscopy and i had to take strong laxatives the day before two sachets and i thought oh i'll be fine with this i'm pretty well in control of things down there so i take my first sachet and i had to travel to London that night to be ready to go to the colonoscopy the first thing the next morning. Yeah. So I'm out in East Anglia in the afternoon the day before.

I have my first sachet. And an hour later, there's a bit of a rumble in the jungle. And I'm thinking, that's fine. No problem. I'll pop to the loo in a minute or so and then about 30 seconds later it was just an explosion it was co-brown and and the loo was right next door you know it was six six steps away I made it about three steps I've never had that before and so you know spent the rest of the hour kind of cleaning

up it was absolutely disastrous and then i was terrified for the rest of it i was like how am i going to get to london i've got to go on the i've got to cycle to the station oh no that's not gonna happen get on the train and you know that's what i had to do. I didn't have the option to drive. So I waited as long as I could until things were a little bit more normal. I hadn't taken the second sachet yet. And so then I cycled to the station, got on the train. And by the time the train arrived, I was in terrible trouble. And just rushed straight for the lab, which was one of those big ones with the circular sliding that i never trust that someone can't get in there yeah and they're often out of order as

well because of the mechanism um but luckily it was okay i got in there i was like thank christ it's not one of the times it's out of order so i uh do what needs to be done feel very relieved and then i realized the flush is broken. Oh, my God. Luckily, the sink works. So I was able to sort of just put a load of toilet paper down there and put some water over it and try and make the whole situation superficially acceptable. And then there's a knock on the door. Oh, no.

This is my worst nightmare you're talking about. And so I steal myself, open the door. It's a young woman. And I just keep my head down and walk past her as quick as I can. You know, try not to hear or think about anything that's going to happen. And then make myself as small as I can in my seat for the rest of the journey. While groaning and rumbling persists from from my tummy and i'm thinking what am i going to do if there's a repeat of the code brown from earlier in the day and i was thinking

i'm gonna have to shit in my backpack that would be the only option because i don't if i had a plastic bag i would shit in that but i don't it going to have to be the backpack if it comes to that. Luckily, it didn't come to that, but it was really quite. And I'd never had that feeling before of just being out of control. And my dad was ill at the time. And I remember thinking, this is what I guess this is a little bit what it's like being old and just being frightened in those situations. I'm having to factor that in, you know. You know what?

We should come up with a crap sack. And it's a knapsack that would be lined on the inside so you could also use it as a toilet and change the liner so you wouldn't have to throw the whole thing away. That's genius. Isn't that a really good idea? Yeah, that is. But wow. See, I had a colonoscopy a couple of years ago,

so I had to take those laxatives. But see, what I would do, and I know it's expensive, but if I were you, the next time you have to have one, go to the United States, because they give you propofol, which is a drug Michael Jackson was taking when he died. give you propofol, which is a drug Michael Jackson was taking when he died. And you wake up on a cloud of love. You have no idea how long you are out.

So you're out for the colonoscopy. You're out for the colonoscopy. You wake up on a cloud of love. Right. And somebody had told me, you know, they're going to make you fart. And I said, I can't. I could not possibly do that in front of somebody but you're on a cloud of love and it's just the funniest thing in the world when they tell you to do it you're just so happy to do it and it's the funniest thing in the world and and you're

just a ninny and it's the greatest drug ever's good. It made everything worth it. Everything that came before. You know? But actually, if your results are bad, they should give you propofol too and then say, oh, we found huge cancerous tumors. And you'd be this so happy.

It means I get to spend more time with you. It's worth it. It's worth it. Wait. This is an advert for Squarespace. Every time I visit your website, I see success. Yes, success. The way that you look at the world makes the world want to say yes.

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for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, because you will want to launch, use the offer code BUXTON to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain so put the smile of success on your face with squarespace yes continue you hey welcome back podcats david sedaris there wow i'm so pleased to have finally met him

and talked to him it was really a thrill and I hope that he might come back onto the podcast one day. I'd love it if he became one of the semi-regular guests on the podcast. And as I said at the beginning, Me Talk Pretty one day, if you're not familiar with his stuff, is a good place to start. The actual book or the audio book, either one is pretty great. I think it's one of those situations where it's very nice to hear him actually reading it, performing it. But of course, if you ever got the chance to see him live, that would be an extra dimension to the whole thing as well,

which would be well worth it, I'd imagine. And I must say his latest book, Calypso, is one of my favourites of his as well. And I'm not just saying that because it just came out and I'm contractually obliged to do so if it was a load of old bollocks I would just gloss over it so hey it's nice to be back doing the podcast uh quite a long break over the summer just because I've been trying to get some writing done I'm also in the process of trying to get a book written and taking some of David's advice and reading stuff out live at small events here and there

to see what it sounds like. But, boy, it takes ages. I mean, everything takes me ages. I move at a fairly glacial pace. And that's also why I suppose there aren't more podcasts plopping out on a more frequent basis. Well, they have jobs, so it's not as if we have a whole dedicated team churning these things out twice weekly, like some of the more well-known podcasters I could mention. Speaking of podcasts, I was reading a piece online by an American journalist the other day, which was announcing the death of podcasting, saying the bubble has burst, we've reached saturation point,

there's too many podcasts, everybody, they've all got the same guests, they're all talking about the same thing. Well, yes and no. I still like listening to podcasts. You stay loyal to a few. I experiment with a lot, but I suppose I do keep coming back to the same ones over and over, which I do crap on about fairly frequently on this podcast. But here's a few ones that I haven't really mentioned before, which I found entertaining over the summer. I liked the Leisure Society that I think Six Music puts out.

Gemma Kearney interviewing artists about their passions she talks to tracy emin uh kelly deal from the breeders that's a really good one i would love to talk to kim or kelly deal i just think they're so great I just like hearing them talk Grace Jones that was a good one as well she has a really good conversation with Grace Jones and there's Jason from Sleaford Mods

they're all just talking about specific passions that they have in their lives, Kelly Deal talks about knitting, Jason from Sleaford Mods talks about knitting uh jason from sleaford mods talks about going to the gym i think uh but it's not just that you know it's putting those things in the context of their life and work and they're really nicely produced and put together so i'd recommend those if you're especially if you're a music fan i guess they're mainly music artists on there. Jonathan Ross, he has a new podcast, although so far there's only one episode.

I don't know if he's going to do them regularly. I mean, he must be so busy. But he's always good. I think, you know, especially when he's talking about films, Jonathan, it's called I Like Films. And so far, there's just the one episode with him talking to Spike Lee, talking about Black Klansman, which I haven't seen yet, but I'm keen to see it.

Another podcast that I've been enjoying. Actually, I tried this one earlier in the year and didn't go back to it for a while because I couldn't quite make up my mind about the host.

I thought, I think he might be irritating me, I'm not sure. But that's often the case with getting used to a new podcast, breaking in a new cast. Some of you might be having that experience with this one. Maybe you haven't listened before and someone's told you to give it a go and you're trying to make up your mind. Hmm, well, the guest was interesting, but what do I think about this guy? Is he too annoying and smug or am I going to give him another chance? Takes a while to bed in sometimes.

And that was the case with the Ezra Klein show for me. Ezra Klein, I think, is a New York Times journalist and American man. And so this is the blurb for his podcast the Ezra Klein show gives you a chance to get inside the heads of the news makers and power players in politics and media so it's not like this podcast in that it's quite serious but he's a very intelligent guy and even though I would say that he's coming from a progressive left of center place politically he is extremely open-minded inquisitive and talks to people who he doesn't necessarily agree with but in a very interesting

and thoughtful way, as far as I'm concerned. And he's talking about, you know, all the big topics of the modern age, and boy, there's enough to choose from. What else? TV recommendations? I mean, I've just been watching the same sort of stuff

as you guys probably. Bodyguard, Killing Eve, all that stuff. Better Call Saul. Boy, Better Call Saul is good though, don't you think? I mean, it's just on fire at the moment. I watched one episode the other day, a few episodes back this was, so we're on season four now. And for those of you who aren't aware, this is a spin-off show from Breaking Bad, focusing on Bob Odenkirk's character, Jimmy McGill, a.k.a. Saul, a lawyer. And it's so good. So we're on season four and episode, what was it, episode seven, I think,

I think which featured Jimmy and his girlfriend Kim in the process of growing apart for a while and it was illustrated first of all with a montage of what they were up to in their lives it started out with them both brushing their teeth together but it was rendered in split screen symbolically and then played out throughout the rest of the episode in a similar way not split screen right the way through but lots of little indications that they were growing apart but it was so beautifully done like i've just the way i've described it it sounds a bit clunky but but it wasn't. It was amazing. It was like the most perfect episode of television I've ever seen, I think. Everything about it, the music and all the performances in that show are spot on. But, yeah, season four.

So I think most people are probably on board with Better Call Saul. Oh, shit, Rosie. Rosie! Rosie! Jeez, Rosie just fucking ran into the road. Oh, man. She's okay. Thank goodness. Yeah, so, you know, so most people are probably well aware of Better Call Saul.

But it's one of the worst things you can do these days, isn't it? Is be late to the party. You're late to the party. Everyone knows about that. Oh, you idiot. That's been on for ages. Why have you only just found out about it now?

Why are you talking about it now? That was years ago when everyone was supposed to be talking about that. You idiot. That's the voice in my head. People sometimes tweet at me as well. Sorry, late to the party with your podcast. Only just found out about it. I don't care. That's one of the nice things about podcasts. They sit around. The archive just

sits there for, I don't know, as long as the internet lasts or until I'm involved in some sort of scandal, which requires the redacting of my entire creative output. I don't care when you come to the party. It's nice to have you here whenever you decide to show up. So that's about it for this week I think thank you very much indeed to Seamus Murphy Mitchell as ever for his incredibly valuable support helping me get in touch with guests and helping me figure out how to edit it and all that sort of stuff and thanks as well to matt lamont for his help editing the conversation much appreciated as ever thanks matt and thank you very much indeed for coming back or for joining the party for the

first time hope we'll see you again until the next time will you promise please to take very good care you don't need to put your coat on, but just take a coat with you. Because it might get cold. It's warm today, but sometimes it's warm one day and then it'll be freezing the next. You can't tell these days what's going to happen. So why not just take a coat? All right, I'll take a coat for you. I love you.

Bye! Bye. I love a thumbs up. It's nice to get back with a thumbs up. If you like it, subscribe. If you like it, subscribe. If you like it, subscribe. If you like it, subscribe. If you like it, subscribe. I love a thumbs up. If you like it, subscribe. If you like it, subscribe. I love a thumbs up.

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