THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.80 - DESIREE BURCH

Episode Date: October 20, 2018

Adam talks with American comedian, actor and writer, Desiree Burch. Conversational tangents include fantasy jobs, teenage sexual angst, the reason that aged 12 Adam was concerned he might be the antichrist, relationship malaise, and some frank descriptions of Desiree’s younger days working as a pro dominatrix in New York.Thanks to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell for production support and Emma Mills for additional editing.Music and jingles by Adam Buxton RELATED LINKS DESIREE ON ‘LIVE AT THE APOLLO’https://www.facebook.com/britishstandupcomedyfans/videos/desiree-burch/252118131992936/DESIREE TALKS ABOUT LONDON PEDESTRIANShttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AURM-_hSgyI‘THE KID WHO WOULD BE KING’ TRAILERhttps://www.comingsoon.net/movies/trailers/997947-kid-who-would-be-king-trailer Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening I took my microphone and found some human folk Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke My name is Adam Buxton, I'm a man I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan. Hey! How you doing, podcats? Adam Buxton here.

Beautiful day out here in Norfolk, in the east of England. October 2018. And change is afoot in the countryside. Leaves of deciduous trees turning brown and gold, tumbling to the ground. It's the fall, Rosie. Did you get it? Oh, still a bit too early for that, I think. Yeah, but if I wait any longer, it's going to be Johnny Winter.

What are you talking about? I don't know. Oh, I've seen a thing. that, I think. Yeah, but if I wait any longer, it's going to be Johnny Winter. What are you talking about? I don't know. Oh, I've seen a thing. I'm going to go. Bye. Hairy bullet. Fly past. So welcome, listeners, to episode number 80 of the Adam Buxton podcast. Thanks so much for joining me once again. And this episode features a conversation with American comedian, storyteller, actor and writer Desiree Burch. She grew up in California before moving to New York City, where she cut her teeth as a stand-up comedian and a theatre performer.

She holds a BA in Theatre Studies from Yale University. That is a prestigious learning seat. Yale University. That is a prestigious learning seat. And now she lives in London, which is where I spoke to her towards the beginning of this year, 2018. And I bought Desiree a gift, as you will hear, the gift of truth or dare sticks. And that sent us off on a variety of conversational tangents, which included fantasy jobs, teenage sexual angst, and the reason that age 12, I was concerned I might be the Antichrist.

All will be revealed. Relationship malaise, and some frank descriptions of Desiree's younger days when she worked briefly as a pro-dominatrix in New York. Trigger warning, there is some mention of testicle abuse. Now, I'd seen Desiree on the BBC's stand-up comedy showcase live at the Apollo, and during her set,

she enjoys some laughs at the expense of what she describes as short, white, fetishy men. Here's a clip. And the thing is, like, short guys are cool. They're usually like funny and charming and gregarious because they gotta be. Um, and, like, I mean, I definitely will go home with a short dude, you know, like they're hot, right? I just can't date them during daylight hours. No, I mean, because, like, you know, I tend to date a lot of white dudes and the problem is I can't walk down the street holding a short white dude's hand because I'm going to look like his Jamaican nanny picking him up from daycare. Well, I found that amusing,

but I identify as a tall, beautiful Indian dude. So I was interested to hear if other people ever get offended by her material and how she navigates that area in general. And that was how our enjoyable and meandering conversation began. I'll be back to say a brief goodbye at the end of the podcast,

but right now, here we go! Ramble chat, let's have a ramble chat We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that Come on, let's chew the fat And have a ramble chat We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that. Come on, let's tune the VAT and have a ramble chat. Put on your conversation coat and find your talking hat. especially as a comic obviously you don't want to be offending lots of people but and to some extent comedy is going to offend somebody like the butt of the joke rotates ideally it can't always just be you especially on a show like live at the apollo

where you have a huge audience many of whom will not have seen you yeah i have no idea who you are they don't know where you're coming from yeah and that's the thing with especially with quite edgy comedy as well where you're dealing with difficult subjects or taboo subjects sometimes it's very helpful for the audience to have that confidence in you they already know where you're dealing with difficult subjects or taboo subjects, sometimes it's very helpful for the audience to have that confidence in you. They already know where you're coming from. They know you're a good guy. Yeah. And that you're coming around to something that's inclusive, even if you're, yeah, as opposed to just being like, well, I mean, we don't know who you are, so you probably suck. And, you know, like you better show us right away and then never let us down, which is not a thing a human being can do. Yeah, because there are some comedians who get into strange areas these days. It's not all as simple as like a right wing comedian. He does all right wing stuff with right wing opinions or left wing comedian. It's all there's there's quite a few gray areas. So you can have. well, I was watching some Bill Burr stuff the other day.

And he's someone who's been on the podcast. Yeah. And he's a master of a gray area. Yeah. And there's a lot of people who listen to him on this podcast and then said, oh, I checked his stuff out afterwards. I didn't know it before. And I've got to say, I found it a bit hard to take. You know, why is this guy, why did you have him on?

Like he says a lot of stuff about women that i can't get behind at all i'm like yeah but that's not the stuff that i'm personally enjoying yeah there's other bits and pieces yeah that you enjoy and just sort of his general persona and sometimes you're kind of like i'm not going down that route with you but like i can see why that's your point of view i say a lot of stuff about men and i don't hate them but it's fun to be able to make fun of them when I have the opportunity. And people enjoy that because they haven't heard that as much as what Bill does. Yeah. You know, and at some point that'll get old too.

And then everyone's like, well, you know. That's right. And also his persona is like, you know, I'm a psychopath. He's not, he's not. It's a great Bill Burr impression. He's not putting himself out there. It's like, you know, you should think like me, have the same opinions as me. He's like, I'm fucking crazy.

Yeah, exactly. And also he defines a certain limitation, like you can be within that and still enjoy his point of view and be like, well, at least I don't go that far as to put it out there, but it's important for someone like him to be to go that far out so that people who feel

some of the ways that he feels at different times feel like they have you know reflection or representation of themselves yeah yeah the tricky thing i suppose is when you start getting the wrong well the wrong kind of people who are the wrong kind of people i mean people a certain type of people who are only into the more extreme stuff or they only take one message away yeah and they're yeah they're they feel like they've been justified in having this unpleasant point of view because bill was joking about it or whatever or whoever it might be that they're into you know yeah i guess it's like that for bands isn't it when they do a song that's not representative of what they're yeah

really doing yeah but they have a big hit and then they start getting the weird types of folks showing up who are coming to hear that one song and that's it yeah yeah and you can't necessarily determine or control who your fans are and when bands like indie bands cross over as well you know like alternative bands and something like I remember being at a Radiohead gig, and I was stuck at the back with all these – actually, they were city guys. Okay. So they'd just come out from work,

and they were still in their suits, some of them. And they were into just – Just suits at a Radiohead concert. They were just getting hammered. I know, it's not – they didn't get the memo. What was their crossover into it was there a certain song that where or where they got into it or an album well it was no surprises when they started playing

and it was just uh like a football chant and you know you don't want to prescribe how people enjoy yeah it's like all right be elitist about a certain thing. But on the other hand, if it's interfering with everybody else's enjoyment, and I was stood at the back there just going, guys, guys, guys. But those people seem to not understand or care that they are interfering with other people's enjoyment of literally everything, every place they go to. It's what teenagers do, isn't it? When they get together, you can see that their whole existence is defined by boundary pushing.

Yes, yes, absolutely. And button pushing. And they're just testing like, what are the rules of society? And so they're getting together and as soon as it's a little bit quiet, they can't, it's almost as if they've got Tourette's or something. Yeah. They want to just make noise and go, And they also realize that there's more of them than other people and they can see the fear. Like there's nothing more intimidating than like about four or more like teenage lads or whatever. Or if there's a girl involved, whatever. But like you get a bunch of teenagers.

Sometimes the girls can be the loudest. Yeah, that's true. And like they'll rip you to shreds because they're like, we do this to ourselves every second of every day. We know exactly how to tear you down and we will do it in a heartbeat if it makes us feel better for a half a second right what was it you grew up in la right i did yeah whereabouts in los angeles uh well not exactly in los angeles i say that to people over here because i'm like you're not going to know where i'm from uh i grew up in uh i mean I was born in Los Angeles, but my parents moved very quickly to this place called Diamond Bar, which is near Pomona, further inland east, like you've got to sort of pass Disneyland in order to get there. I don't know, Snoop Dogg has a house there,

I guess now, so you know, people know it more. And what would you do to get your kicks on a Friday night then? Not much. I was a nerd. So I think, I mean, not even a nerd, because when you think about nerds, it's like they get really into stuff. I think I was just like, you know, I was just a weird fat kid who only had a couple of friends. And like, I didn't do anything cool until, you know, I got to university. So on a Friday night, I would be probably watching Steve Urkel on TV, you know, it was like tgi friday right it was just um yeah i grew up on a television set but i had two working parents and they just were like okay sit here turn that on you're good what's steve urkel oh it's a show called family matters

i don't know if you ever saw that character he's like um he's like this uh teenage uh like a nerdy black kid who's like the quirky neighbor to this family oh okay and he's the one who comes over family matters was michael j fox no no that's family ties family ties so yeah family matters was a little bit later it was more prominent in the 90s you know it was definitely in like the sort of fresh prince of bel-air era era and yeah african-american cast yeah so it was like a yeah black cast there was like a family and all of their stuff and then he would just come over and be like the screech on say by the bell or the kramer or the whatever like he's that character oh call there you go because i'd heard people mention that as a

reference but yeah i quite understood what it was yeah yeah he was just like i mean basically at some point it became the steve urkel show you know because he would come in and say did i do that and then everyone would like lose their minds and that's what the show became yeah but yeah anyway so that was the first 18 years of your life yeah was just pretty much there hoping to get out i i presume that lots of young people you know at some point you have that like i gotta get out of young people, you know, at some point you have that like, I got to get out of this shit town. You know, especially teenagers feel that way. But I just definitely felt like I have to get out of Southern California as soon as I have a chance.

I mean, it's beautiful. I miss the climate all the time and the ease of life. But I don't miss the sort of lack of culture or the uniformity of culture behind sort of like, everything's about Hollywood, film, television, and like everybody wants to be on American Idol or whatever the heck it is. Like everybody thinks they're famous. And I get, I mean, that's ridiculous thing for me to say, cause that's what I'm working on.

And also like everybody in the world is sort of like, oh, let's be famous. I was just sort of like, there has to be another way. Like what did your folks do? My dad does like computer stuff and computer programming. And my mom worked for the city of Los Angeles. So when my parents met, she was working for the libraries of the Los Angeles library.

But while I was growing up, she worked for the LAPD for a bit. Like she was a typist, like a clerk typist. So, you know, like she's just sitting there, rows of other people, like typing up stuff.

And then, and then she moved to working for LAX. So, you know, like she's just sitting there, rows of other people, like typing up stuff. And then she moved to working for LAX at the, you know, airport still. Just, you know, she worked as a typist her entire life. She worked at all the fun places. Totally. Hey, everybody in the modern time. They got to get themselves a podcast. I will do yours and you'll do mine We're sorting out the problems of the world so fast I see now that you've gotten up and there are truth or dare sticks.

Yes, mate. I got these as a gift for you. Oh my goodness. I've brought nothing. No, no, you brought yourself. You've given me the gift of Desiree. I've got you the gift of truth or dare sticks. Have you ever played truth or dare?

I have played truth or dare. I don't know if I ever have. Really? Yeah. Well, is that not a thing that like teenagers do? Well, I guess you need like a pool party or a slumber party. Something like that. Or something like that to happen before someone's like, okay, truth or dare.

We never really did that. You know, we were sitting around reciting poetry. It was like Dead Poets Society when I was a teenager. We were stroking our chins and we were reading each other extracts from novels. No, but we didn't play truth or dare, though. So I'm quite intrigued. And the deal with these, these are sticks. So they're like long lolly sticks. Oh, though. So I'm quite intrigued. And the deal with these, these are sticks. So they're like long lolly sticks.

Oh, interesting. And then on one side of the stick, it's yellow. And this is the dare side. So, for example, I've picked one out at random here. And the blue side, the other side is the truth side. So this one says, describe your most awkward dating experience. So that would be there's one. That would be the truth one.

Yeah. And on the other side is the dare side. Give someone your phone and let them send one text to anyone in your contacts. Oh, that's cute. Because when you play truth or dare, like with your friends at a party like that, I actually now understand why that would be helpful because you just people are uncreative. and why that would be helpful because you just, people are uncreative. And so all the truths and all the dares have something to do with sex because it's all you're thinking about is like, okay, like take off your top and like run around, you know, like it's just all, you can't think of anything.

So it's nice to have. That's right. It is. It's all about sex. You're right. Yeah. That's not the basis on which we're playing it today. Yes.

Yes. Obviously. And also no one's around. If I take off my top and run around, no one will be any the wiser. I don't want to discourage you, but this is not an overture to a sort of complicated form of podcast harassment. Fair enough. Wait, should I go first? Yeah, go on.

You go first. Okay. So you choose whether you want to do the truth or the dare. That's the way it works, right? Okay. Yeah. Well, when I've played it, whoever's doing the thing, like I would ask you truth or dare. And then you would tell me which one you wanted.

Oh, I see. And then I would be like, okay. Okay. So you have to choose before you know what it is, which is the hard part, which is why usually the game was just called truth. At least because when i put you play it with a lot of other girls and sometimes one of them is the daring one but most of the time it's just like we just want to sit here in the sleeping bag and and share secrets

yeah you know because a lot of the time you get the dare it's like well there's no way i'm doing that yeah yeah yeah i'm obviously not gonna do that right but then you have other people be like oh come on and they have a valid point that is yes the game but you're like look i'm not playing the game i will take this game and i will turn it right back around yeah because i saw one of the other sticks that i saw but after i bought the thing i was checking it out one of the dares was lick the armpits of the person to your right and And I was thinking, is that going to be appropriate for Desiree? Like, would she lick my armpits? I mean, I probably would because I am just, I'm like, I can do that. You know, like there are lots of times when I'm just like, yeah, I'm going to, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, and then later you're like, I can't believe I licked his armpit. Like I just met him. I mean, and then later you're like, I can't believe I licked his armpit like I just met him. I mean, I washed this morning. Yeah, I mean, so did I, but it's already an armpit again. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Okay, so truth or dare? I'm going to go for truth first of all. Okay. So truth. If you could own your own business one day, what would it be? Wow. What a boring question. Yeah. yeah then everyone's like oh he chose truth no one's like absolutely no one would be in bed not a single person would be interested in the answer to that well uh the honest answer would be i would run a bar yeah i used to be a

bartender yeah and i often i've said this before i think i often fantasize that when i get busted for doing something terrible or say the wrong thing yes and my career is over i think i would be good at setting up a bar and i like all the decoration aspect of it yeah i would have it low lit i see so many bars and pubs. So much lighting. Where there's so much light. No one wants to see each other like that. And I think the reason for it is that they don't want people to linger. Yeah. They want to turn them over.

Yeah. But I like it when it's, you can barely see. In Los Angeles, there's some great bars that have just a bit of floor lights, like fairy lights around the floor or something. And it's, you have to feel your way through. It's like a sexy dungeon or something. Yes. and why would you want to turn business over in a bar you make your money by people getting drunker and drunker and making worse and worse decisions about what they're gonna do next that's true like when people are like shots you're like oh great like i'm going home with some great tips or whatever like i don't get why because a lot of

bars here you know are pubs and if you go in the wrong time of day you know it's like the old man pub and all the lights are on and you walk in and everyone looks at you because it's like we don't already know you and it's the same people here all the time and you're kind of like how do you survive as a business based on that yeah you know well i guess the other thing isn't it is that um perhaps it's a function of an older clientele that they need the light. They want to, they can't see without the light. I'm at the stage now where I'm turning on more lights than I used to because I just can't see without it.

Yeah. How old are you? 39. Oh, you're all right. Yeah, but it's even still where I'm like, I've got the contacts in, but I have to walk a certain distance to a sign before I can read it, you know, and I drive. So, yeah, I think I'm in that place where you can see where it's gonna go. You know, like, I think you get to a certain amount of age where it's like, you're not old, but young is done. And you're like, oh, I have some more insight into how I might die, or at least degenerate

based on what I've already done to myself and what my tendencies are. Yes. And like the trouble I can feel brewing now, you know, because, you know, when you injure yourself in your 20s, you're just like, oh, I'll walk that off. I'm indestructible. Yeah. And then in your 30s, you still have that same injury because it never went away because you never really dealt with it.

And it just got worse over time. So, yeah, then you can start to see like, oh, I should look out for this now because history has shown it's not just going gonna, you know, walk away. Yeah. Would you ever do one of those DNA tests? No, I did one before they had to go through the whole FDA process of like being like, oh, you can't tell people there. You can tell people they're sort of like, you know, racial or ethnographic information,

but like not medical information. So you learn some stuff where you're kind of like, oh, you metabolize caffeine slowly, which is why I can't really have caffeine after two o'clock because I'll be up until five in the morning. And I was like, oh, that's good to know, even though I guess I kind of already guessed that. And, you know, that kind of thing. But yeah, they did have some like, okay, you have a maybe a higher tendency for breast cancer or like, I can't remember if it was Alzheimer's or Parkinson's

or one, like it was one or the other. One of those great, great. Yeah, one of those. Yeah, just like, oh, winning it. I don't know. I didn't find anything that was like, you are 100% sure gonna die of this, you know, which would have been freaky.

But yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Fall in love with liver cancer. Because it's yours, baby.'s yours baby you're getting yeah it's like your liver's just made of tumors we don't know how you're here to take this test oh man what would your business be then if you set one up if you were doing comedy something that was super easy uh no i i feel like it would have to uh be something like you know barman's

great because it is interpersonal and i can tell just speaking, you know, barman's great, because it is interpersonal. And I can tell just speaking to you that you'd be that great kind that would be like, you know, put the shot glass down and like, hey, what's going on and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, and be chatty, but still taking care of everyone's drink and all of that stuff. I don't know, I guess my first instinct is to do something like educational, you know, You've done a bit of that in the past. I have, yeah. And I really do. It was interesting to do alongside with being a performer,

a maker, creator, all of those things, because I do theater as well as stand-up. But because you do get a lot of creative satisfaction out of doing that, you know, getting the best out of them. And because I particularly like working with middle school and high school and like middle school is when everybody hates themselves the most and wants to die. So to the 14 to? Sixth grade is 12.

So like 12, 13, 14. Okay. Like that era when they're just, they're pre-teens or tweens or whatever the heck it is. When they're young, they're so much more willing to like, be like, I just thought of. It's gonna have a rocket ship. And it's gonna you know, and they they don't judge themselves. And then 12, 13, 14 is the era at which they come into a place where it's all judgment. And suddenly they're they're in the sort of hinterland between like, I want to be creative, but I also like don't want to be emotionally destroyed. And that is what is at stake here. And by the time

they're in high school, that's still a factor. But also, they've built up some defenses. And they're kind of like, I don't fucking care. Like, whatever. Cool. Whatever. I don't care. You know, but that age, they still, you still have a chance to like, help them remember that they care about something before they get sort of pummeled down by, you know, their hormones and everything else. And so a lot of people talk about how seventh grade was the hardest year. Seventh grade is you're 13. That's the time when you're changing over and everyone's just like, I just remember hating myself and everything in life, you know? And it's really great to be able to like, just reach someone at that point and give them hope.

That's the one of the years, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, and it's not all like, you know, oh, Winnie Cooper's next door and it's all beautiful and she's on a bike, you know? Like, sometimes it's like, my home life is imploding. Yeah. And what the hell is this shit on my face? That's right.

You know? And I've just discovered what wet dreams are. Yeah, and I can't tell anyone. And I don't think that's very good. Yeah, and like the things that I'm thinking about that cause them, you're just like, you know. Yeah. Someone needs to tell you, like, yeah, you're going to think some fucked up thing.

That's right. That get you off. And it's like, okay. I'm concerned that I might be Satan. I was really. Was that a concern for you? Yeah. You were like, I am the devil.

I remember after I had my first wet dream, I had no, no one had told me about that. No one. No one ever. Why? Why do parents, why do they not just go like, I mean, I get it. It's embarrassing, but just be like, okay. By the way. Yeah.

I can already see your face is breaking out and hairs are growing out of it. So let's just get it all out on the table. Right. There's a few other things to look out for. Yeah. Or like, here's a big book. Just here's the book to look it up in. If you don't want to talk to me because it's weird, just here's the book to look it up in if you don't want to talk to me because it's weird just here's the book yeah but then maybe if it had been me i probably would have not got past

the pictures of the naked women yeah yeah but they slice them in half and then you're like oh well that's not sexy that's the way i like them you you are the devil so wait you had your first wet dream and you were like first wet dream and i just woke up and I thought, what the shit was that? That is not cool. What if I go and stay with a friend? I can't go and stay with any other people. Yeah, ever. Yeah.

Plus, it was just like, oh, this is awful. I'm totally out of control. Because you think you have no conception that it's something that's not going to last for very long. Yeah. It's only a short phase and you're going to get your faculties back after a while. You just think you're like a hydrant that may go off at any time. Exactly. And just destroy people's lives.

I'll just be walking down the street and it'll just be like. And then it's like. Yeah. And everyone's like, no. It's like the Lonely Island video. Jizz in my pants. I don't know that video, but I should look at it. It's fucking funny.

Jizz in my pants. And it's just a guy going around. And you know that kind of stuff. It's all sort of hip hop parodies. Yeah. And it's these cool guys in a club. And one of them sort of sees a woman and she smiles at him. And then I jizzed in my pants. That's got to be so hard. in a club and one of them sort of sees a woman and she smiles at him and then i just yeah

that's gonna be so hard i have never envied men for that because it's just like i mean all of your organs are hanging out of your body and it's just super awkward well and everyone can tell how you feel about them at any time if they want to like that's just a lot it's super intense it's not a problem for most people after a certain age but when you are a teenager it really does feel like that it feels like watch out yeah because i am not in control of any of this and it could happen at any second yeah so stand well back and i woke up after the first wet dream and I just thought, holy shit. And I actually went to the mirror and I looked. For horns. Have you ever seen the second Damien film?

No, I didn't. There's a point in that film. He's at some military academy. I haven't seen it for years. And he does some terrible thing and he gets freaked out. And he's like, what the hell am I? And he goes and he looks in the mirror and he sees on the top of his scalp he parts his hair and he sees 666 on his scalp and he's like fuck and then i think

later on he sort of gets into it and he thinks oh yeah so like is that about him accepting that he's the spawn of satan or whatever like just the it's coming of age exactly wow why did that guy suddenly drop dead when i got angry yeah so i i thought holy shit maybe i'm this is the early stages of me did you look for the six i did i did you see how many sixes were there couldn't see why there was a couple of blotches i thought is that a six you're like now it's just this eczema it's just a it's just a bit of melanoma. I was very relieved when I found out that it was something that a lot of people go through. Yeah, but I don't think that that stops. I think that people respond so much to, you know, what we do, you know, as comedians, as live performers or whatever.

because every so often we hit on a thing that someone's like, oh my God, thank you so much for saying that because it made me feel okay about something that was precisely that or similar enough to let me know that I was still included in the world of people. Because I think that a lot of times we can feel things, experience things, whatever our bodies, our reactions to other people that make us feel like we are not fit for human consumption in any way. And I think that is that continues to be powerful for people to be like, I'm okay, I'm human, too. You know, I'm allowed to be part of the crowd and to, you know, fail and to be somebody's asshole sometime and all of those things, you know, everybody. What a lovely thought.

Right? It's just sort of, you know, it's just sort of relieving to be like all of these things that I point my fingers at and judge people for, I will be subject to at some point. And sometimes I catch myself in the middle of it and it's nice to have the recognition. It just, it's always really nice. Yeah, man. Well, that was a good long detour from that one stick. What was the dare? The dare. A good long detour from that one stick.

What was the dare? The dare? Imitate popular YouTube videos until someone can guess the video that you were imitating. Could you just be like, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, and then like push something off of a table? It has to be a specific one, doesn't it? I guess so. Is that still a thing? Are there memes that cross over to that degree? Could you just do a hip hop video or something?

Yeah. I wonder. I mean, all the ones that I can think of are quite old. You know, every so often there's, you know, like that one that got auto-tuned or whatever that everybody kind of knows. But all of those that I can think of tend to be pretty old. Like there are a couple ones I can think of. I can think of Chocolate Rain. Yes yes totally like i mean he's still like um

part of the the youtube pantheon in my mind because he was one of the earlier ones like leave britney alone yeah chris crocker yes like those are you know those are like hollywood walk of fame youtube you know people in those are, you know, those are like Hollywood walk of fame, YouTube, you know, people in my mind still, you know? សូវាប់បានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបា do you want another truth or dare stick should i I do one for you now? Yeah, please. All right. So what are you going to go for? Truth or dare? I mean, I probably will go for truth, but it seems like... I mean, that was an innocuous dare. Yeah. Should I try?

It's going to be lick your armpit. Okay. Let's try dare. Let's try dare. Okay. No, this is no good. Run around outside with your boobies out. Put them in the window of the neighbor.

That would be fine. I mean, honestly, it would be fine. Have one of the other players, i.e. you, prepare an eight ounce beverage using any edible items found in the refrigerator. And drink it. Oh, God. No, no, no. I mean, wait, so I should prepare a beverage and then I drink it oh god no no i mean wait so i should prepare a beverage and then i drink it because i will prepare a lovely beverage that is not a very functional dare should i pick truth instead

is yeah let's do truth all right here we go tell us the real reason you broke things off with your last boyfriend or girlfriend. Oh, God. Okay. That was the right one to go for. Are you able to do that? I am able to do that. I actually just recently broke up with my ex and he was the reason I came to the UK. Okay.

So we were together for the past like three and a half years almost. And then we just recently, well, we broke up in the fall, but then, you know, because it's the modern era and nobody has enough money. Like we had to live together for like another three or so months before I could actually move. Oh,

that's him emailing. Yeah. He's like, tell her no. Saying, I can't believe you're telling this story right now. I mean, it's not like there's a story.

I mean, he's, he's wonderful i will always love him in that sort of family way but i you know i i moved for love and most times it doesn't work out which is evidenced by people whenever you say oh i moved for a guy they're like you stole together immediately you know which is kind of like that never works why would you even try that did it fall apart tell me you fell apart but uh yeah we stayed together for a while but i think we just sort of so he was a brit was he yeah yeah yeah i mean he's just all the british things he's like from the midlands in his 40s just like you know disaffected white guy

like just all the things yeah and super lovely but i think every relationship has sort of central breach you know and all of the fights are ultimately about that. Yes. You know, I think when I moved over, he was very much like, okay, we're together now, this is sewn up, we should start thinking about the rest of our lives. Like, you know, he's got a couple of years on me, you know, like, he was just sort of ready to sew the whole package together and keep moving forward. And I moved over and I was like, well, we just got into a relationship that was long distance. And like like let's see if it works and so

there wasn't ever a like trial period or like let's be dating let's you know make this a thing it was just okay this is all sorted already and so i think that the intimacy just sort of dried up and then we were just sort of like friends who were living together having fights but was there ever a moment where you got a chill and thought holy shit i can't believe i've just moved and this is the way it's gonna go i mean just like right off the bat i think even before i came over there was sort of a like hmm but it was mostly about just the sex was not necessarily working the way it was supposed to work and i was like okay well it's still young and we'll sort it out and whatnot but i think i think for him he had trust issues with me and i could understand why because i was kind of like like totally untrustworthy yeah completely

completely i mean i'm basically scum and a cute round face um but essentially i think that you know he was like okay we're together're together. And I was like, hold back. And I also was very aware the entire time that for the first six months I was here, I was here as a visitor. I couldn't work. I didn't have a visa to work. I was solely dependent on him. I was very aware of that fact. And you know, the money does affect things in terms of, I felt like I couldn't speak out about certain things because I had no recourse. I didn't have, I didn't, I wasn't able to be like, well, it's my way or the highway, you know, because I think that both people in a relationship have to be like that in

order to be honest. And if one person is sort of in the back of their heads, kind of like, I'm, you know, 5,000 miles away from where I'm from and 3,000 miles away from where I moved from or whatever. And if this doesn't work out, yeah, I can go back home. But I kind of don't want to do that because there's the whole sort of pride. I don't want to go home with my tail between my legs after I've just like moved for love. And also I was liking even though it was hard to be in a new country and to start over, I was liking my life so much better. And I wanted to leave New York so bad by the time that I moved over here, I'd just been there for 13 years.

And you start getting sick of it after like six or seven. So that's where you were at university. I was at university in Connecticut. I went to Yale, which is in New Haven, but it's like an hour and a half outside of New York. So lots of people just leave and go to New York, which is what I did. Right. Yeah. And so I'd been there since graduation.

And, you know, it's in some ways, it's a cool place to be young, like there's lots of stuff to do. And lots of, you know, just just different nooks and crannies of cultures to get yourself into. But also, it's really tiring. And you get into your 30s. And you're like, I can't keep doing this, especially because, you know, everyone's like, you're great, keep going. And there isn't any sort of like, all right, you've been doing this for a while. Like now you can do these things. Like everybody's hustling. Everybody is super ambitious and has the sort of ambition monster of like, you got that thing. How did you get that thing? I need to get that thing in order for me to

be happy. The truth is like, it's none of it's gonna make you happy. And especially when you're a comic and a performer, you usually do that because you're like, I have the get attention gene and I have like a fear of abandonment and I have all these issues that have made me thrust myself onto a stage and be very vulnerable and very interpersonal. And a lot of the commerce of art, especially in New York, feeds on just juicing the battery out of people and being like, you're gonna do it anyway. Why the hell would we pay you? Here's your drink ticket. Like, you're gonna show up whether or not you get money. So let's just not give it to you. You know, I got to a place where it's like,

I can't have two other jobs and this in order to survive, you know, or at least one job that I like less and and two of these other things to do that. So, you know, I was just sort of, I was just tired and I was tired of being in the same machine. And so, you know, when I came over, I was really excited about it. I wanted to make it work because, you know, relationships take work and they're hard and all of this other stuff that people tell you

and you have no gauge about how hard it's supposed to be or not or what's supposed to come naturally and what isn't, you don't know. And I was not, I think both he and I were not people, supposed to be or not or what's supposed to come naturally and what isn't you don't know and i was not i think both he and i were not people you know we were we'd got gotten so far on our own so it's like two people have been alone for a long time are gonna find it hard to come together and compromise and then also like neither of us had been in a lot of relationships like he may be more than i but like i'd actually never been in a long-term relationship. It was always like,

you know, a couple months and then things, you know, it's easy to just be like, whatever, you know. So why not do your first long-term relationship? Yep. In another country. Another country. Yeah. I just was like, I'm putting my eggs into this basket. Like if you don't go for it, you don't get anything. Sure. And so, you know, I went for it and I got so much out of it, but the relationship, the love thing, it never, you know, took its next form on. It never really got there. And I think the more we were dubious about each other, like, you know, I pulled back and then he could feel that and then he pulled back and then we kept doing that sort of backwards dance from each other.

So, yeah, I think that's kind of how it fell apart as sad as it is you know but it's just kind of like just because you want to you know like someone a lot and want to be with someone doesn't mean that like they're the one yeah of course yeah well that was a very comprehensive answer to the i mean it would have been so much better if it was just like oh i fucked around is that real melody I fucked around. Is that real melody? Have you seen my phone charger?

I left it right there. Did you see it? Have you got it? Where's my charger gone? Where's my phone charger? The battery's about to die. It was on the table. What? Round and round in their heads

Go the chord progressions The empty lyrics And the impoverished fragments of tune And boom goes the brain box At the start of every bar At the start of every bar Boom goes the brain box. Boom goes the brain box. Woof, heavy's in my phone charger. Boom goes the brain box. Woof, I left it right there. Where's my charger gone? Where's my charger come on here's my phone charger the battery is about to die

it was on the tapes on the tapes on the tapes on the tapes on the tapes on the tapes this is stuff that i did you know in my um early 20s so more than you know you know whatever a decade and a half ago almost right and you were in new in New York at this point. Yes, I was in New York at the time. And I think that there are a lot of stories about any form of sex work and why people get into it. And it's always, oh, she needed the money. And it's like, well, who doesn't need the money? Like, we do all of our jobs because we need the money.

You know what I mean? You see somebody like shoveling shit in a place, you're like, well, you know, he's doing it for the money. Yeah, of course he is. Like, it's not doing it for fun. Right. And so like, yeah, but I think it was also a lot of a lot more women than anybody suspects do this as a work because, you know, you have to think about like your sort of return on investment as far as your time and whatnot. If you are a creative person in some regard, then a lot of your energy is going into that and not a lot of money is coming out of it. But if you have a line of work in which you can make a hundred or $200 pounds, whatever, from doing something for an hour, why wouldn't you do that?

Especially when a lot of times, I mean, as far as pro-dom work, it's a form of sex work where it ends with a dude having a wank. And, you know, it's not like you are having intercourse with them. It's just like you're there and he's having a wank. Whatever. A lot of women have lived through that anyway against their will.

It would have been nice if he'd left 200 bucks on the, you know, when it was done. Then you would have been like, oh, okay, fine. And that scenario, it's like, well, we all understand what this arrangement is. I feel like so many of us have had someone else's sexuality foisted upon us in one form or another. Then you're just like, I bet Louis CK didn't leave 200 bucks. No, he didn't. And you're just like, yeah, no, you need to pay me. You, you, you took my time and my attention and you got something for it. And I want to get something for it too. And it's not going to be sexual, unfortunately. I'm not getting off on it, you know? How did you come to get into it then?

I was, honestly, I was seeing someone at the time very briefly who knew somebody who was doing it and I spoke to her. It was just basically, it was just something I think I'd always wanted to say I'd done. I don't know if I always wanted to do it. But like, once I heard about it, I wanted to say that I'd done it, you know, because it sounds I in my mind, it's like, I'm gonna learn how to be a lady badass from doing that. Because that's the image and the persona of what is put out about like some woman wearing a corset or in leather or whatever the heck it is. And so I think that I was always such, in many ways, even though I'm very sort of, oh, I can perform and entertain people and be very extroverted seeming, you know, a lot of people who

seem like extroverts are really super shy introverts who just like cross a threshold, and then they perform so that they have this protective barrier between what people perceive as themselves and where their actual self lies. You know, there's more distance. It is a protective measure, even though it seems like, wow, you're just so naturally talented. You're like, no, there's a hamster who is working all the time to put on this light show so that you don't come behind the fucking curtain. And to manage the way people see them.

Yes, exactly. Because I don't want you to actually see me because if you did, you could hurt me. Yes. You know, simply by dismissing it. Yeah. And so I'm going to give you something that you can enjoy because i know what you like i've been watching you for a while and you seem to be into this so let me go ahead and do this and then i can just like skirt by and live my life yeah i think that i was so uh so you were used to that

kind of transaction yeah that's sort of like i perform this thing for you yeah and then you get you're really excited about it and then you know there thing for you yeah and then you get you're really excited about it and then you know there's money come yeah exactly and then you come and then i'm like i win because you cut you came and you're all super stoked and i'm like yep i did it and did you have a character that you would what was your character when you're doing it ish like um you know i think that if i had been smarter about it I would have had more of a sort of persona. But I think there's so much of it that you're just curious about. Like, I was a virgin when I was a dominatrix.

I still hadn't actually had sex. So, yeah, because I was just like, I'm going to go learn some stuff about sex and I'm going to go to sex school. You know, like it's like a postgraduate thesis that I'm doing, but I'm just, I think that I thought if I learned more about men and their desire, it would demystify them for me and sort of take some of the fear away. Like, I don't know, like, I don't want to. You went straight for the postgraduate course. Yes, exactly. Before going to high school. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But I think I've always, I often am like, okay, well, I need to do this. And so I overshoot the mark so far. In your mind, you've blown it up. You know, like I'm 23 and I'm a virgin. Something went horribly wrong and no one's ever going to want me. And

I need to figure out some skills so that when someone deigns to like want to be with me, I can impress them so much they might want to come back yes like i think that was the underlying fear suspicion it's like what you don't have in sort of natural desirability you make up for in acumen and skill and what was your first job as a pro dominatrix the pro bit is just that you get paid for it right well the pro bit is that yeah i mean yeah as opposed to like it's part of your personal life. It's just a kink. But it's like, yes, you get paid for it. So I'm trying to think.

It might have been Roy. I don't know. But I mean, he was, it might have been. I can't remember if it, no. Like, I think the first one was like, you know, a lot of guys come in for sensual dumb, sensual domination. And you're like, like all the women who work there, like, it just means they want to be like hugged a lot and shit. You know, it wants to be like, you're wearing like a nightgown and you're like, oh, you're bad. They want to be like

mommied and like, they want a free feel up. And then you get to kind of spank them. And the far more interesting part is when they're just pain sluts. And you're like, I can treat your body as a science experiment. Like, I can put how many clothespins on your balls before you break. Like, and it seems to be a never ending amount for some people. And you're just like, wow, like that is the, it becomes a fascination. You're just like, really? Whoa, you know, and then at that point, it feels, feels to me at least on my side so divorced from sex i mean i know that their bodies and sexuality and his desire and pleasure involved but the distance between what i'm doing and what i think pleasure is and what he's experiencing so far that it's just like wow like i can put pins in it like this is bonkers like let's go for it that was always

the funnest for me like one of the the funnest things to do because i'm just like pegs on people yeah like tying them up just just hitting them just anything that they you know they were like oh no harder and i'm just like you don't know when to stop i mean at a certain point you're like i'm gonna do damage and now that's gonna become scary you know there's a guy who came in just to get his nipples twisted. But clearly he does this with all kinds of dominatrices, sex workers, whatever. They were clawed into. They were like chunky. They look like an eraser tip that you would like stuck your thumbnail in many times.

And I was like, something's going to fall off and I'm going gonna scream and run out of the room like you have to at a certain point I'm like just maybe don't take the poppers before you do this because it might be important for you to feel what's happening you know but and that was the craziest bit to me of just yet like how much further and further and further this person needs to go for their pleasure and you know because it was always surprising to me, like, how much, I was just like, how much do you guys need to get off? Like, because at the end of it, it's like, and like, I'm kind of like, that's not,

it doesn't seem like the most complex process in the world. I don't know what goes on inside your bodies for that, but it just seems like you can get that in a variety of ways, you know? Like, how much better does one feel than the other? I don't know, you know. So you weren't like taking a cheese grater to people's... Like nutsacks.

No, I mean, there are people who will do that. You know, those were not typically my clients. And I would imagine a lot of the women who worked in the dungeon I worked at had regulars that they had brought in with them when they started or that they developed while they were there. And so I imagine for something like that, you're going to want, you don't just want anyone grading your balls. No. You know, like you need somebody who knows how you like your balls graded. Yeah, exactly.

Someone who's got a zesty light. Exactly. An intimate understanding of grading. And your balls wait this is an advert for squarespace every time i visit your website i see success yes success the way that you look at the world makes the world want to say yes. It looks very professional. I love browsing your videos and pics and I don't want to stop. your members area and spend in your shop these are the kinds of comments people will say about your website if you build it with squarespace just visit squarespace.com slash buxton for a free trial and when you're ready

to launch because you will want to launch use the offer offer code BUCKSTONE to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. So put the smile of success on your face with Squarespace! Yes. Continue. Oh, my nuts! Hey, welcome back, podcats. Desiree Birch there. Really enjoyed meeting Desiree. And I thank her very much indeed for her time. Heading back home now.

And the house is full of children. I don't know who they are. Some of them are mine. They're on half term at the moment. It's always half term, as far as I can tell. And the half terms are very long. Half term, when I was a lad, half term was about an extra two to three hours if you were lucky that you had off school and that was it now it's i don't know a month that's what it feels

like and during half term what have we got lined up It was my daughter's birthday recently. And so my wife has arranged for us to go and see Hamilton. And that's a big deal. My daughter's very excited about it. She's obsessed with Hamilton. I'm quite excited. I mean, hey, look, I like Formula One. Who doesn't? But do I need to see a whole hip hop musical about him?

Ah, tried that joke out last night with some friends. And it didn't do well. So I thought, yeah, stick it in the podcast. We really are going to see Hamilton, though. And my daughter has been rapping a great deal in anticipation of the trip. She knows all the words. That's good for me because that's one of my favorite genres of rap is 10 year old middle-class English girl rap. I think for me, it's more real, that's all all and it just is more what the genre was really

originally intended to be so it's exciting what else can I tell you before I say goodbye today well um oh there's a new series of Messi goes to Okido If you've got children, young children, and you are looking for something new to watch with them that is fun, educational, and not contemptuously moronic, then I would recommend Messy Goes to Okido. I provide the voice for Messy Monster, who's one of the gang that goes around sort of learning things about the world and how things work in a fun way it's put together by the people that did postman pat and i really had fun doing it my fellow actors voice actors rob and kate and shell But I do like, I think it's a great show.

So check it out. Messy Goes to Okie Doe. It's on the BBC. I guess it's CBeebies. And there's a new series airing because, let's face it, we only did about 90 episodes of the first series and the world was clamoring for fresh Messy Goes okey-doe so now they've got it also i tweeted earlier this week the trailer for joe cornball's cornish's new film

the kid who would be king it comes out in easter of next year 2019 no sign of buckles in the trailer although as far as i'm aware i do pop up in one pivotal scene towards the beginning of the movie and it's a better cameo than i've had in cornish's previous efforts but check out the trailer it looks very good rosie come on time to head back Oh, it's a second fly-past. That was a good one. Wow, it's beautiful out here. For beautiful trees and bracken and all like for leaves turning red and gold and shit,

it could be painted by a painter man with all like really good light and colours and all that. That's how I would describe it. So, listen, thank you very much indeed, once again, to Desiree Birch for her time, and thank you to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for his absolutely indispensable production support. Thanks, Seamus.

Thank you to Emma Mills for additional editing on this episode. And thank you very much, Podcats, for making this a part of your lives, for listening right to the end. The quartermasters, the hardcore. I appreciate it. Until next time, we share the same aural space. Go carefully. Don't get involved in Twitter rows.

And remember, I love you. Bye! And subscribe. Like and subscribe. Like and subscribe. Please like and subscribe. Give me a little smile and a thumbs up. Nice like a plant with a thumbs up. Give me a little smile and a thumbs up. Nice like a plant with a thumbs up. Like and subscribe.

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