THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.96 - CHARLOTTE CHURCH

Episode Date: June 8, 2019

Adam talks with Welsh singer Charlotte Church about birthdays, smells, Charlotte's plans to help children build a democratic school, my complaints about having to upgrade apps, (even though 'The Adam Buxton app' might need upgrading soon, so I can fuck off), as well as Charlotte's megastardom years and the pressure on her from the tabloid media at the height of her celebrity in the 90s.Thanks to Anneka Myson for additional editing and Seamus Murphy-Mitchel for production support.RELATED LINKS2 NORTHDOWN - COMEDY VENUE AND SPACE FOR HIREhttps://www.2northdown.com/THE 'AWEN' SCHOOL PROJECThttps://www.theawenproject.com/CHARLOTTE CHURCH’S LATE NIGHT POP DUNGEON - DON’T LET GO (GLASTONBURY 2016)https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=227&v=EfuKjVBkL3UCHARLOTTE ON THE BIG BIG TALENT SHOW (1997)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhY07WXK8j0ADAM BUXTON PODCAST RAMBLE CHAT MUGhttps://adam-buxton.backstreetmerch.com/ADAM BUXTON’S OLD BITS DVDGofasterstripe.comTHE ADAM BUXTON APPhttps://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/the-adam-buxton-app/id1264624915?mt=8 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening I took my microphone and found some human folk Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke My name is Adam Buxton, I'm a man I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan. Hey, how you doing, podcats? My name's Adam Buxton, I'm the host of this here podcast. Thank you very much for joining me. It's a beautiful day in early June 2019.

for joining me. It's a beautiful day in early June 2019. I'm being dwarfed by the wheat. I'm pretty sure it's wheat we're dealing with here. It doesn't take much to dwarf buckles, but it is unbelievable how this stuff springs up. And that's the end of wheat news. And that's the end of week news. So look, let me tell you about podcast number 95, which features a conversation with the Welsh singer Charlotte Church. Charlotte facts. Charlotte is currently aged 33. In fact, we met on her 33rd birthday in February of this year, 2019.

Charlotte's musical break came when she was just 11 and she caused a sensation when she sang Andrew Lloyd Webber's P.A. Yezu over the telephone on the TV show This Morning in 1997. And that was followed by a performance on ITV's Big Big Talent show, hosted by Jonathan Ross, that same year. It didn't take long before Charlotte was signed. And in 1998, Voice of an Angel, her debut album, was a hit around the world. And number one on the British classical crossover charts. After three further albums that featured classical music as well as opera, jazz and show tunes, a 19-year-old Charlotte released a straight-ahead pop album in 2005 that was called Tissues and Issues. Oh, I remember making some great comments about that at the time. In 2009,

Charlotte's second child was born and the following year she released her sixth studio album Back to Scratch. The 2010s have seen Charlotte release more left field music in the form of four EPs. And in that same period, Charlotte has lent her voice to a variety of causes, including the Leveson inquiry into illegal phone hacking by News International in 2011. into illegal phone hacking by News International in 2011, speaking out against institutional sexism in the music industry during her John Peel lecture in 2013, and protesting with Greenpeace against the Shell Oil Company's activities in the Arctic in 2015. My conversation with Charlotte included some fart chat,

fairly early on, not much, don't worry, some presents, Charlotte included some fart chat fairly early on. Not much, don't worry. Some presents. Charlotte's plans to help build a democratic school. My complaints about having to upgrade apps, even though I realised afterwards that the Adam Buxton app might need upgrading soon, so I can fuck off. And we talked about Charlotte's megastardom years and the pressure on her from tabloid media

at the height of her celebrity in the 90s. But I started by setting up the mics and putting the fluffy covers on the little Rode NT5 microphones I use. I'm not sponsored by them. I just, some people sometimes ask me what kind of mics I use. And Charlotte seemed to find the fluffy fluffy mic covers delightful as you will hear and as you will also hear I then confidently use the word plosives which I always thought just described popping p sounds but here's the actual definition of a plosive in phonetics the basic in English are t, k and p, as well as d, g and b.

Plosives. Just saving fact-checking Santa a bit of work there, which is not to say that there won't be other things in the podcast that I get wrong, as I always do, but, you know, that's the nature of the rambly chat. Back at the end for a tiny bit more waffle, but right now, let's go to church! back at the end for a tiny bit more waffle but right now let's go to church

ramble chat let's have a ramble chat we'll focus first on this then concentrate on that come on let's chew the fat and have a ramble chat put on your conversation coat and find your talking hat

yeah yeah yeah conversation these are little drum, so they're very directional. They're amazing. And then, yeah, you've got the fluffy rabbit's tail. To mitigate the plosive situation. Plosives? Plosives. Plosives. You must have come across the world of plosives before.

That's just another word for instead of saying popping. Oh, is it? Yeah. Plosives. So plosives are words that have p sounds in them and will create poppings. Great. Are you a mic queen? No.

Not into your gear? Not into gear at all. Right. It's so much so that I've got a 3310 Nokia. I joined in with, you know, the tech stuff. Yeah. Really rather late. I didn't have my own email address until 2012.

Oh, really? Yeah. What were you doing before then? Oh, I don't know. Writing letters? Having phone calls. Oh, yeah. Talking to people on the phone.

And yeah, and then a couple of years afterwards, then I got a Facebook account and Twitter and all that jazz. And then about a year ago, I really felt the digital addiction creeping up on me. What happened a year ago to make that happen? I don't think that anything in my life specifically made it happen. It was just that i just found myself constantly checking my phone right okay all the live long day and in a way it

was there's just something so empty in it i like the way bjork explains it she says that being on facebook too long it's like having two junk food burgers and you just feel empty and a bit gross afterwards yeah it's it's seldom um edifying yeah you seldom come away from it thinking oh that was a good uh 60 minutes well spent i learned a lot there i feel a lot better about the human race now i mean you do sometimes but totally i went completely the other way and also i mean really it was that the kids would be like oh can we do this oh mommy can you do that and i'd be like hang on babes hang on I'm just I'm just doing this I'm just doing this and then I was like this is ridiculous this has got to stop and so then I got a 3310 and it was just like all of the white noise fell away and then it was just

like I could hear and I could see everything again and And it was just like... So explain what a 3310 is. I don't know. It's an old fashioned Nokia that they brought out the new ones with snake and all that. Oh, yeah. Okay. It rings and it texts. I mean, you can get on the internet, but it's like a dialect modem sort of situation. And what was swallowing up most of your time?

Sort of checking email or going online and tweeting and things like that I think it was just a bit of everything right okay it was a bit of compulsive checking it is a thing isn't it and what is it it's wanting to just get little endorphin hits from the idea that maybe someone is thinking about you is it really is that what it is I don't know I'm guessing yeah I like that you know feeling as if you're I remember when my dad was uh nearing the end a few weeks from his death one of the things he said when he was in a bit of a drug haze you know on the on the cancer medication was I am irrelevant I feel irrelevant and I think that's one of the things you get just with old age you don't need to be dying necessarily yeah i think that sort of encroaching feeling of irrelevance that the world

is no longer interested in you and you don't really belong to it or it to you you know what i mean it's yeah absolutely but you feel i think i think you feel that you're not maybe aware of it when you're younger but it's there that dread of irrelevance somehow. And it just sort of grows with the years. Right, and the internet is just like, why not check if you're relevant still? It's time for a relevance check. Check if anybody gives a shit.

Well, you might have been relevant five minutes ago, but what about now? Yes. Have a quick check. What about now? Now, now. That's right. Yeah.

That's no good. There may be something in that. Yeah. And then, of course, I got a bit evangelical about it and just annoyed the shit out of everybody around me. It's like people who give up smoking. Yeah. Yeah.

Which I've also done recently. Right. So I'm just a... Self-righteous nightmare. Self-righteous. Pain in the ass. But now I'm starting to think do you know what that was wonderful and now i remember what it is to live without this constant connectivity and a bit more headspace i think part of it as well was you know the world seems to be going to shit so much that

not in a brexit way but it was like i want to go back i want to go back to sort of simpler time when we can speak to each other and have some sort of relationships and emotional connections which isn't just through devices i was sort of getting a bit not prepper but just a bit communy like right guys should we start thinking about this uh because i think about the end times about the end times and possibly building a lovely commune and uh or a lovely bomb shelter yeah yeah not really a bomb shelter i'm not into bomb shelters if there's going to be a bomb there we are let's do it that's going to be too hard do you know what i mean i don't fancy living in the aftermath she's got a really good bomb shelter you reckon yeah oh have you got one i've thought about it i don't have it yet

it's on my um it's on my birthday list yeah when is your birthday uh in june great when is your birthday my birthday is today hey i did know that happy shall i sing you the standard happy birthday or my birthday song? I would love your birthday song. Birthday time, it's birthday time. It's time for your birthday today. Oh, yes, I'm staring right at Charlotte. And she's smiling. Birthday time, happy birthday time.

To fail to celebrate would be a horrible crime. Your name is Charlotte. I brought you a gift. I actually do have some gifts for Charlotte. To celebrate the fact you're still alive. You came out of a woman or possibly a tube. And ever since that day, you have survived. Well done.

Thank you. And the song goes on for another five minutes. Okay. So I'm not going to sing the whole thing. Are you sure? Yeah. It's called Birthday Time. That's one of the songs we, me and Jo back on BBC Six Music would challenge each other

to write songs occasionally. And one week we had to write a new birthday song to replace Happy Birthday. Great. And that was my one. But Happy Birthday. Thank you. 33 you are. 33. Oh, one. But happy birthday. Thank you. 33 you are. 33.

Oh, mate. How does that feel? I feel sort of, because I've had a mad life. Yeah, yeah. I feel quite old and quite young. So I feel like, older than my age, I feel like I'm about 60 in my mind. You have packed a lot in. Really, yeah.

Jam packed. But then also I'm quite 60 in my mind you have packed a lot in really yeah jam-packed um but then also I'm quite childish yeah I'm really not very sophisticated I still love farting and fart jokes excellent news because I've got some coming your way There is a time for speaking And there is a time to hear There is a time for farting And wafting away the fart with your hand Well, maybe we'll start with the world of smells in general. Yeah. So your first gift is this.

Wow. It is the little box of sleep. And actually this is a gift from my wife. That is so lovely. My wife. I almost did it then. I'm trying to phase it out because i'm embarrassed that i've got a catchphrase and i know a lot of people that don't like it i almost did it so it

was either going to be either me or you this is lovely tisserand aromatherapy little box of sleep little box of sleep simple steps to feel your best yeah it's three little cylinders of stink. Of stink for your pulse points. That's right. Temples, neck and behind the ears can also be used on the wrists. I can think of another pulse point, but they don't mention that one. Do you want to just try one? Absolutely. Which one are you going for?

True Comfort. That's a blend of bergamot, cardamom and ylang-ylang. Is that how you pronounce it? Ylang-ylang, yeah. Ylang-ylang, which wraps you in a blanket of serenity. Oh. What is ylang-ylang? It's a flower, isn't it?

I don't know. I think it's an exotic flower. I'm really getting into my plants recently. Are you? Well, that is one thing. That's a gift that age brings, is is suddenly realizing that actually things like gardening, which seem just about the most boring thing you could ever imagine when you were younger, are great. So great.

This smells really delightful. Does it? Yeah, I think that's lovely. It's all right. I'm feeling more and more comfortable each sniff. Are you wrapped in a blanket of serenity? I'm generally wrapped in... That's probably the Ylang-ylang.

Yeah. I'm generally in my slippers wrapped in a blanket of serenity. I am such a creature of comfort. How are you with sort of less pleasant smells, like farts and... Well, farts, again, I think are just gifts from the gods to be honest and i think i think the smells are great yeah i think it's really interesting um they're funny it's so funny but but are the gross smells i'm not so sure i'm just thinking when i was at school there was a guy who used to smell underneath his watch the whole time that's hanging

that is gross i haven't heard that expression hanging no but yeah body odor i do find fascinating and also it sparks such memories of your own body odor or something else no i'm thinking about my bambi particularly my granddad okay he's got a really specific bo smell but it's mostly a lot of it is cigarettes and plaster because he's a plasterer okay or he was a master plasterer that just immediately makes me think of my bambi yeah i mean an overpowering bo stench maybe i wouldn't be up for but a bit of a mild funk especially on a woman like this is my personal preference but i would rather a woman with a bit of a a sort of funky sweat thing going on than someone who was very over perfumed.

Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. Personal preference. I'm not casting aspersions on either of those communities. And sometimes a little bit of both is quite nice. Sure. Stinky sweet sweat.

Yeah, totally. For a very long time though, I couldn't really smell. Oh, really? Yeah. My mum has got absolutely no sense of smell and when I was younger into my teenagehood I think maybe when I became a mother my my sense of smell got much better um but before then it was quite limited so actually this is this is a reasonably new sense for me were you a big smoker yes i mean it definitely definitely you can notice the

difference almost immediately if you stop smoking yeah that you do smell a lot more totally so the start of this year i stopped smoking right right and straight away everything was much more taste and everything was just like wow yeah it does come back pretty quickly the world in color and everything was just like, wow. Yeah, it does come back pretty quickly. It's like the world in color. It's time for some more gifts. Here we go. I got you a Adam Buxton podcast

Let's Get Ready to Ramble mug. Oh, yeah! There you go. Oh, that's so lovely. Available from my website. Oh, thank you so much. Is this how Rosie looks? No. No, she's not blue she's not blue that's

a great design by super talented artist luke drost but um it is not i would say particularly accurate on the visual side right it's very much a cartoon version of us both it's delightful thank you very much because you know i am a huge fan of this podcast oh thanks very much it is my favorite podcast wow thank you and i do feel like as i said in my twitter message to you yes charlotte got in touch i got a direct message it was very exciting uh yeah uh where i invited myself on the show thank you very much for having me you're welcome uh but yeah i feel like there's something about uh your style of chat and maybe it's just who you are which is very calming okay and I think there's something about it which is that the world is so efficient everything is so run from efficiency and this is just not that

and there's something really, really wonderful. No, this is very much a homemade effort. And people get quite annoyed. Like at the moment, I'm talking to you in February of 2019. And I'm on a bit of a break trying to finish writing a book. And the podcast doesn't return. As I said in the last podcast at Christmas with Joe, which I assumed a lot of people would hear, but I guess they didn't listen to the end. Yeah. I said, we'll be back in April 2019.

But people just tweet me the whole time. Really? What are you doing? What are you doing? You left us. You're lazy. Stupid, lazy man. What are you doing?

I think they mean it in a nice way generally, but sometimes they do seem quite irritated. And what I'm doing, apart from trying to write the book, is I'm living my boring life to the best of my abilities with my family while I still have them. Absolutely. And I think that when you say efficiency, I feel like maybe you mean, yes, that feeling that a lot of people have that is exacerbated by social media, et cetera, that they should always be working on Project Me and they should be influencing and they should be advertising and they should be driving people towards what they're doing next and, you know.

Yeah, exactly. That's exhausting. Totally. I mean, I would do it maybe if I was younger and I didn't have children. Well, I'm going to get back into that world. Are you? I am.

I'm going to get a smartphone again. Why? Because you've got a new project coming up that you want people to know about? It's because I've got a new project coming up, but also I'm trying to build a school. Are you? I am. And it is so far the most creative process I have ever been a part of, which is brilliant. What kind of school?

A free to attend democratic school in South Wales that the kids build themselves. I mean, no disrespect, but if the kids have built it themselves, there's going to be a lot of health and safety issues. There are going to be a lot of health and safety issues. There are going to be a lot of health and safety issues, but I'm working with a great social enterprise. How do you mean the kids have built it themselves? Well, we haven't started yet. Yeah. But the idea is that there's lots of old-fashioned sort of sustainable building

that you can do, which has a lot to do with, it's like building clay houses, really. Yeah, so there's a great social enterprise in Swanseasea that i'm working with called the down to earth project and they work with kids who aren't in education people who have had traumatic brain injuries people with mental health issues and they build these beautiful structures completely energy and water sustainable and a lot of them are for education or health i think they're doing some social housing as well they're brilliant and so they're gonna help us to figure out how to build a school with kids and the idea is is that you know as long as there is proper risk assessment and health and safety and that in place lots of educationalists are talking about the fact that

everything is far too safeguarded. Kids aren't allowed to take any risk. Everything is sanitised within their environments, their learning environments, and we don't really learn through that. But also another thing that's sorely missing from education is necessity. So a lot of kids in schools, particularly secondary schools,

don't really understand the relevance. Like, why are they there? What is is the point why are they doing this thing which they have no connection with so if you have to build your own learning environment then that sort of drives this necessity but also through building something together it's about ownership and collaboration and teamwork what aspects like practically speaking what are they going to be doing in the building process everything from deciding what materials that are used they will have help from adults as well but it won't be a gestural sort of here you go build that wall and then actually we'll knock it down afterwards and because that's what i would do yeah but no but i don't want children building but they don't learn like that Because I don't want children building houses.

But they don't learn like that, do they? They don't learn. But if you teach them how to do it. So part of the idea as well is that then when they leave us at 16, 17, then they take down something that they've built in a sort of rite of passage to symbolise the end of their time with us

because lots of research is showing that another thing that we're sorely lacking in education is any sense of ritual or rite of passage. So, yeah, they'll take down something, part of what they built to do that, but also to make room for the kids coming through. It sounds quite sort of, I've never really heard of anything like that before is it based on an existing sort of model or an idea not really no i've basically just been on a huge six month research project going to schools all over the country with amazing practice whether that's from the top private schools to tiny little primaries with amazing practice. I've just gone and spoken to as many

people as I possibly can who are Goliaths in the world of education and innovative thinking and thought this is what I think we should do. So there's this whole idea of construction and then deconstruction so that the kids coming through can then build their own learning spaces but also that school would be constantly adapting then to the newest ideas in technology and sustainable living and so it's a constant evolution and where do you get the teachers and stuff like that from don't know yet yeah okay so it's early stages it's early stages that sounds so exciting yeah it's great but also democratic education is really interesting as well. So what's the definition of a democratic education in that way then?

Well, the school runs as a democracy. So each of the kids and staff members, kids and adults, have an equal vote in all matters pertaining to the school. Again, asking for trouble. Possibly not the more boring stuff. Yeah. Like which energy provider should we go for? But in terms of... Can we not do maths and instead just have a very big ball pool?

That would be Buckle's suggestion. I think that maybe learning physics in a pool or on a trampoline. Stuff like that. It's just like there's so much physics you could learn in a pool or on a trampoline stuff like that it's just like how there's so much physics you could learn in a pool mate you couldn't learn less physics than i did so pools got to be um and on a trampoline improvement yeah i just think you know there's really creative ways to teach people stuff and of course we need a certain amount of knowledge but technology is changing the way that we need to retain information i.e we don't need to really we need to be able to find information

and then synthesize that with whatever we want to create um yeah but what if it's like terminator and machines take over and skynet crashes all the computers we won't have access to anything and then no one will know anything anymore oh god i'm just saying what if some science fiction films come true what if some science fiction films come true totally i mean they are generally just a little ahead of the trend of what actually happens little things have just started to change my mind towards actually wanting to be back in the digital sphere. That like, well, if you want to make a positive change in the world, which I truly do, you have to understand this tech. Yeah, yeah.

Where, you know, for years I've been happy being a Luddite, really, and just sort of running away from it and going. I preferred it when we were just biological things which talked to each other. But it's about doing both. Would you ever go out to Silicon Valley and hobnob with some of those twats? If they want to give me some money for a school, absolutely. I'm just joking. They're not twats.

They're great, great guys. But I would say some of them probably are twats, don't you think? I'd imagine so. I had a big argument with my brother over the Christmas period. It wasn't a big one, but it was just, it got tense suddenly. He's very knowledgeable and he's a clever guy. But he gets very defensive if you start criticizing computer technology. And I started moaning about the fact that I'm sick of having to upgrade everything the whole time. I'll have a piece of software and it'll just stop working unless I upgrade it.

But if I upgrade it, certain features that I've come to rely on will become obsolete. Or maybe it won't work with another piece of software that I don't want to upgrade or all this kind of thing. And to me, it seems like a conspiracy to just keep me buying things and keep me buying the new version of this when the old version was perfectly fine. And he's saying, no, that's not how it works. You don't understand how the software is constantly developing and it's very expensive. So they have to keep the money coming in to keep it i'm like they've got lots of money yes i'm pretty sure they've got loads yes can't they just do it so that i don't keep constantly having to upgrade i mean the other way you could look at it and don't get me wrong like it is capitalism but it's sort of most pretending to be sort of preachy and changing the world but

essentially there's a lot of people making a shitload of profit with a phenomenal amount of power, far more power than any government in the history of the world has ever had. Um, concentrated, you know, to these few people, uh,

working out of Silicon Valley. However, in another way, you, by buying all of these products are it's almost like investing in nasa during the space race right you're engaged you're pushing forward human advancement uh you know whether that's a good thing or not is yet to be seen yeah i think i mean i'm not one of these people that necessarily wants to go back to the Stone Age just because it would be simpler. Because I do think progress probably on the whole has been a good thing for the lives of most people.

I think it's just happening at such a rate now that it's a bit uncomfortable, isn't it, sometimes? It is. Where do you think it's all going? Well, I'm glad you asked me, Charlotte, because I've got a very clear and extremely accurate idea. No, I've got no clue. I feel, broadly speaking, that, you know, we're very much, socially speaking, in the grip of this online revolution,

which is proving to be strenuous and painful to adjust to, the way that we treat each other online. And I feel as if we're gradually heading in the right direction. You know, people are collectively alarmed by some of the more excessive and unpleasant things that we all say and do to each other online. And I think most of us are agreed that actually we've got to be a little gentler and kinder as we would be in real life hopefully yes you know what i mean yeah absolutely so i think that's one one thing but you know i've got a fairly woolly faith in humanity and in

the positive aspects of technology that maybe a lot of the more serious problems in the world might be solved. Not to say that there's always going to be shit going wrong, isn't there? Of course. Yeah, it feels very transformational. You know, like Trump. I mean, who needs to fucking speak anymore about Trump? But really, I mean, it's... He's got a lot of good ideas, I think.

It's one hell of a lesson. Yeah. You know, maybe if there is a positive way to look at it. Yeah, you feel as if we're in the dip and it has to swing back the other way. Unless they find someone worse. Oh, gosh. And then it'll be like, oh, do you remember the good old days when Trump was in charge? Oh, gosh.

Anyway. I love your face, so Like a painting by Picasso The eyes to the right The nose to the left Other faces make me order But your features are all in a nice Order Order How are you just in general with talking about the past and things like that?

Oh, I'm great. Yeah. All a learning experience, isn't it? Yeah. Do you know what? Great. All a learning experience, isn't it? Do you know what? I really think that part of the reason I managed to sort of stay sane throughout my whole life is through doing interviews. Right, okay. It's sort of like a really public therapy.

Yeah. Because I didn't know very much about you, really, apart from the very obvious stuff, the stuff that people couldn't avoid. About you, really, apart from the very obvious stuff, the stuff that people couldn't avoid. You know, I do remember you aged 11 in 97. Yeah, yeah. The P.A.A. Zoo days. Yeah. P.A.A. Zoo, obviously, meaning Pie of Jesus.

Pie of Jesus. Jesus pie. Or holy pie. Tasty Jesus pie. It's the sequel to Amazing Cakes. Amazing cakes, how sweet thou art. And I remember my dad thought you were just terrific. He always loved child prodigies in that way,

people that just had beautiful, beautiful voices. Yeah, he was knocked out. I think there was a lot of parents especially whose hearts just melted, I guess because when you get a bit older, you're so used to seeing children who hate you and hate adulthood and hate the world and want to rebel. That's generally the version of youth that gets foisted upon you. Yes, totally. When you're older, you know, especially by a kind of moral panic obsessed media.

An angel. I think we can. I think we can agree on that. Then, yeah, lots, lots of parents and grandparents. You know, I just I felt like an extended family member to them somehow. Yeah. And especially now, because, you know, I've been in the public eye for 20 odd years. So the way that people speak to me when they see me is so familiar.

You know, I'll be anywhere in the supermarket or whatever. And people are like, are you babes? You all right? Are we the kids? And like yeah it's great and it's really sweet it's really lovely but I think people do think of me like um extended family member yeah have you ever deconstructed those years with Ella Jones and talked about shared experiences of being in that position? Not really. I have met him once or twice. Hell of a party man. Is he? Yeah.

Every time I met him, I was actually quite sober in those occasions, which wasn't very regular at a certain point. But yeah, he was a hell of a party head. But no, I never really spoke to him about that sort of stuff. But also, I kept myself to myself a lot I used to go back to Cardiff I'd love to come up and visit London and but I sort of associated it with work and paparazzi and so I didn't really know any of the famous people I wasn't in a sort of celeb network or anything like that I used to bugger off and be with my girls that I went to school with and we'd all just be scatty as fuck

trawling the streets of Cardiff. But you were, in between those times, going out and meeting the Queen. Yeah. The Prince Charles. The Prince Charles. The Pope. The Pope.

Two presidents. Two presidents. Which presidents did you hang out with? Clinton. Yeah. A couple of times. And I sang at Bush's inauguration. Did you? Which was very odd. Yeah. There were so many protests

on the day, so we were all bussed in, and I was sat next to Kelsey Grammer, Frasier. Right, right. And I absolutely loved Frasier. Like, I. And I absolutely loved Frasier. Like, I'd stay down at my nana's every Friday. My bambi would bring back fish and chips. I'd have a half of my nana's strongbow,

and we'd watch Frasier. And that was like our Friday night. Totally, I'm serious. Really? Yeah. Oh, okay. And that was sort of like, yeah, from about 11, 12, what we do. So I was so excited to meet Dr. Frasier Crane.

He was such a dick. Was he? Oh, God, he was awful. Why? Just stir up himself? Yes. I mean, obviously, he was there in support of President Bush, which, you know, now, when I was 14, I didn't have a clue about politics. I was just, Sony had said this was a, you know,

I had to go and sing at the inauguration, essentially. So for me, I didn't have a clue about politics. I was just, Sony had said this was a, you know, I had to go and sing at the inauguration, essentially. So for me, I didn't have a clue about the politics. But now looking back in hindsight, he was supporting President Bush. Right. But yeah, he was just, he was just a real douche. Mm-hmm. Which was really upsetting. But was it that time I met Muhammad Ali?

I can't remember. But at the white house i met muhammad ali which is amazing no way yeah um president bush he was such an odd man from far away because his his eyes look really sort of um just brown and sort of friendly ish you get up close they are steel gray uh-huh he just looks completely vacant and he asked me what state Wales was in what state is it in? and I just had to tell him it's a country

it's his own country next to England yeah so they were mad experiences but in a way because I was so young and so nonchalant especially when I was a teenager it was like, ugh. You think, oh, yeah, this is normal.

Whatever. Boring. I just want to be at home trying to find some weed to smoke. Sort of thing. Also aged 11. Yeah. No, it's probably about 15 then. Right, okay.

But I did meet David Bowie as well. No way. Yeah. I met him at the MTV Awards in New York. So I think I was just about 14, and I was unbelievably excited to be at the MTV Awards. My mum and dad travelled with me, but it was just my mum that time,

because we don't only get two tickets. And of course, imagine being 14, getting to go to this amazing music awards ceremony with your mother oh my days so she was just so embarrassing and so uncool uh anyway and so then we saw David Bowie I knew who he was obviously but I didn't have any sort of appreciation for him or you know know, his music. And my mother just, like, lost her shit. And she was like, she had a little disposable camera on her. She was like, you've got to go up and meet him. You've got to have a photo with him.

You've got to. And I was like, whatever, I don't want to. I want to go and see Busta Rhymes and so is a so-and-so and the people that I love. But anyway, so she took me up to him and asked if we could have a photo together. And then I remember just catching sight of Iman. And she just looked like the mask of Nefertiti. So I was completely disinterested in David Bowie and just completely transfixed by Iman.

And my mother, she was so pleased, so chuffed to have met him, though. And he was really sweet, really, really kind. What year was this? Maybe 2000. Right, OK. Yeah, but then? Maybe 2000. Right, okay. Yeah, but then obviously since then, well, not necessarily obviously, but I have developed a deep love for Bowie's music. For Xavier's.

I'm trying to picture what he would have looked like around that time. He had short, sort of flipped over hair, skinny jeans. Oh, yes, I remember exactly. Yeah. Wow, that's extraordinary. Do you still have that photograph? I do have that photograph. And he's sort of cuppy down next to me.

Yeah, it's lovely. But I wish, like so much of that time, I wish I would have had a better understanding of the gravitas. Yeah. Was there anyone you met who you did think, wow, this is cool um just people in music that i loved really people like jill scott who i met at the grammys when i was 15 and i just couldn't i just could i couldn't speak to her i absolutely loved jill scott still now erica badu um who else and we had some amazing, amazing times in LA. We went to this amazing charity ball where Elizabeth Taylor was there and Sidney Poitier, Gregory Peck, Harrison Ford, like just crazy Hollywood royalty.

Old school. And, uh, yeah, me, my mum, my dad. my dad and we were so green around the years just like proper working class common slightly scatty family from south wales just being put into these amazing situations so it was really really quite a journey for us all i bet but yeah we got to meet some brilliant people i remember my mother, there's a songwriter, a really famous songwriter called David Foster. We went to his Malibu mansion, this like $40 million Malibu mansion. And at the time he'd written the prayer and I was singing the prayer with Josh Groban. So we'd been warned that, you know, if you go to David

Foster's house, then you've got to sing for your supper. So me and Josh, there's been this amazing dinner with, you know, Barbra Streisand and Barry Manilow, Paul Anka, who wrote My Way, and, you know, all of these other... They're all hanging out there. Yeah, luminaries. Whoa. And me, my mum, and my dad. So I got up and sang, and Josh got up and sang.

Wait, did these other people sing as well? Well, Paul Anka got up and sang My Way, but he changed all of the lyrics. And then my dad was stood next to Barry Manilow and Barry Manilow was saying to my dad, I'm not singing in those dead bitch things. Talking about Barbra Streisand. Oh, okay, not about you.

No, no, not about me, about Barbra Streisand. And she was just mental, you know, super neurotic and odd so my mum and dad now by this juncture are drinking like five thousand dollar bottles of wine so they're getting pretty well oiled my mother sat there having a conversation with barbara uh and then you know and by this juncture i'm just like there's nothing here for me there's nothing here for me. There's nothing here for me. I want to go back to the hotel, whatever. And my mum's talking to Barbra Streisand

and she's like, oh, Charlotte sings one of your songs, Barbara. I was like, oh, don't fucking do it. Don't stop it. Make it stop. Oh, she sings Don't Rain on My Parades. And Barbra Streisand was like, do you? Do you sing one of my songs? And I was like, oh, yeah. So my mother was like, go on, sing it for Barbra.

Go on, sing it for Barbra. She'd love to win you, Bar. So I had to sing Don't Rain on My Parades for Barbra Streisand. Shut up. And she didn't seem very impressed, to be honest. And it was all a bit of an anticlimax. Oh, man. That is extraordinary.

Yeah. Were you, did you feel uncomfortable, though? I felt mostly uncomfortable because I was a teenager. Yeah, of course. So, you know, there was just the general level of discomfort that was going on. Right. Yeah, and then being in mad situations. It was such, it was an adventure as well, though.

And we traveled the world. We went to South America and Japan, Australia, like all over the world. And did you ever get a chance to just enjoy it and appreciate it? Yes, absolutely. There was one time, I think it was my birthday, and we were in Brazil, and they closed down a water park for me. I didn't ask, nobody had asked, but... So to put this in context, at this point you're a sort of number one artist.

Your album has just totally swept the board. Yeah. Is that the first album or was there a couple of albums that did that? Yeah, the first album was Voice of an Angel was the one that did really well. Sold six million worldwide and blah, blah, blah. Then, yeah, there was a couple of albums after that. And I sort of plateaued then and did my greatest hits at 16 but you were yes you were internationally successful though that was the thing wasn't

it so it was it was not just a sort of British phenomenon you were very well known everywhere yeah so you're in Brazil and they close the water park yeah which was brilliant yeah obviously like oh my gosh, such fun. So you got a private water park. A private water park all to myself for my birthday, which is super spoiled. But, I mean, at the time, it was just so... Did you have any pals out there? Or was it just you on your own? No, it was me, my two tutors, and my mum and dad.

Oh, my God, how weird. Yeah, very strange. It was such an education, just going to different countries. And that was the part of it I loved, really. I mean, I loved the singing and singing with orchestras and and all that child's but it was the traveling and seeing how people lived in different cultures and that was a serious education and the attention and did you like that because that's something that I think probably a lot of children do is sort of fantasize about being important in some way you know what I mean like what would it be like if

everyone was doing my bidding and opening doors for me and the way I see it is that I was always pretty much exactly the same I was I was pretty chilled calm, and just did take everything in my stride. I didn't sort of get too excited. I never, even before big shows or whatever, I'd suppress all any sort of excitement. And I think a lot of that was to perform, to be able to do the show, to do it on such big world stages all the time. It did teach me a level of composure. And humility, maybe.

Yeah, but also I loved people, and people were so kind. I mean, sometimes it used to freak me out because some fans literally thought I was an angel. Oh. People thought that I'd healed them. It was a lot. However, again, in a way, it does sort of teach you humility because when you've got somebody next to you who is shaking like a leaf because they love you so much or you know they think you're

this special god-given something or other you sort of have to even though you're a bit like oh this is fucking weird you still have to just be like you know really lovely to meet you and i sort of do my best to calm them but i was probably also an asshole as well. And I was definitely an asshole to my parents. When did your arseholiness years begin? 14 in earnest. Right. Absolutely. And then you were in the bizarre, presumably pretty horrible position of growing up in public.

Yes. With a great deal of scrutiny. Yeah. And this, I've sort of found all this out recently because i as i said i was sort of dimly aware of you but i was the wrong age to really be excited about an angel yes um i was getting on with my stupid shit you know but i do remember things like you were voted nice bum lady or something you were only 15 though yeah 16 16 i was 16 um what was it it wasn't called nice bum lady but it was rear of the year rear of the year of the year and i suppose at that time

i was just a 16 year old girl who thought that was quite flattering and also liked my bum very much yep um so accepted the award whereas you know there was also just a lot of undercurrent of nastiness there was a countdown to to when i could lose my virginity and that sort of stuff so there was stuff that was really uncomfortable however i sort of didn't give a shit because all i really cared about was my crew down in cardiff yeah and you know who had got off with who also pre-internet thank goodness exactly you weren't you could sort of escape it absolutely i mean i mean there was there was paparazzi outside my door every day for years for like three four years and that is so sort of grim and prurient isn't it because it's

purely motivated by oh when's the angel gonna totally you know become a woman with all that implies and the narrative and i gave it to him on a plate really but you know it was all the fallen angel child star goes off the rails it was perfect it was a fairy tale narrative almost and because i never wanted to pretend to be anything but honest and open and truthful, then they had a really easy time of it, really. And obviously we got totally caught up with all of the Leveson inquiry and that because they were hacking our phones. When did you become aware of that then, that your phone was being hacked? When I was about 20, the people running Operation Motor Man,

the initial police investigation, they came to us and said, oh, there's been a lot of illegal information stored on you, but it wasn't about phone hacking at that point. So I suppose just when phone hacking became known about and some lawyers contacted us and said, do you want to be a part of this Leveson inquiry? You'll have to get up in court and you'll have to give your testimony and stuff. And so that was pretty scary, but we had felt so wronged there was such injustice there for so many years and my family had suffered hardcore at the hands of the press none of it was in the public interest it was

all about money and you know salacious gossip and shit and it was really damaging i do remember a documentary on channel four in around 2005 or something yeah they had a psychologist on there and they had the manager of blazing squad and they dug up some of your old school friends and things like that yeah and it was all just quite a mean-spirited takedown totally of painting a picture of your mother as this very controlling person who was living out her own fantasies of stardom through you and all that back then i remember it felt like the tail end of a kind of frenzy of quite tabloidy cheap celebrity documentaries that would get made yeah about anyone who was in the public eye and there was also an atmosphere of really vicious.

I'm thinking about Jade Goody now, the way she was treated. Absolutely. You know, not a saint and responsible of being sort of offensively ignorant. Sometimes when it came to her comments about Chilpa Shetty on Big Brother was the big thing. But when that happened, they immediately switched, rounded on her. They had a cover that said, Jade, we hate you. You know, and just like a full on takedown

years before that kind of culture of piling onto people and publicly shaming them took hold in the social media. Yeah. It was pioneered by these sort sort of celebrity mags yeah and then they all felt a little ashamed when jade just suddenly got ill and died yeah but it was a strange time it was a strange time and you're right it was particularly vengeful and i always couldn't really understand not really what i'd done wrong but it seemed like there was something driving it

other than just the narrative other than just you know they wanted to put it into these fairy tale narrative terms of the wicked evil mother who was pushy and this that and the other and you know the drunken child star fallen child star, and these sorts of very simple narratives. But it seemed like there was something behind that that was a bit bigger that I couldn't really put my finger on, and I still can't now. And maybe it's because of where I came from and that I was a woman, that I was a girl.

You know, maybe it was that I was working class and, you know, I wasn't trying to sell everything that I you know I didn't want to play ball like that I thought of myself as a singer and and I didn't really play their game and I didn't get hooked on drugs and sort of have a massive mental breakdown or I wasn't didn't have an eating disorder that I would regularly do you know what i mean i i that wasn't who i was and it when it was all so unpleasant and particularly the murdoch papers was so unpleasant that i was just like i wonder like why what's behind this what is this vitriol coming for me and my family it's just sort of the media at its worst appealing to people's really basest instincts.

And you see it sometimes online. It's just sort of sensational. And that's what the papers are going for. They're appealing to that sort of primitive instinct to just, you know, see people failing. Of course. I mean, it's really, it's very natural. But I don't know, I suppose that I imagine that people would have a bit more moral authority and responsibility. But I think responsibility is a huge thing in our society. And I think, because I've been doing so much with education recently,

I think that responsibility and introducing responsibility to young people is absolutely essential and that they want it and that they can deal with it and then again that's the way that we learn and that's the way that we can become you know not just tolerant but empathetic and start to be able to manage conflict is if we feel that sense of responsibility for ourselves and our actions, but also our communities and other people. So I'm really interested in children's rights. Something's happened in my mind through this research project I've been on where the idea of giving kids autonomy over their education would seem to most people to be utterly absurd.

And, you know, of course, they're not ready to, they can't deal with that, they don't have the capacity, and they'll fuck it up. When actually study after study and there are over 2,000 democratic schools in the world are functioning brilliantly with young people directing their own learning and what they're passionate about, what they're interested in and self-motivation. And I do think that lots of rights have come, whether that be for ethnic minorities and women, you know, further back the working classes. But I think the last frontier of that is children. So for me, the revolution that I want to see happen,

well, evolution, let's say, is to liberate the child and start listening more to to children and not be such an imposing adult authoritarian force on them all the time is that something that you struggled with when you became a parent i mean because i think most people do you have you suddenly have to decide i never even thought about it before i had children and then suddenly it's like oh shit am i gonna be as you say a bit more authoritarian a boundary setter like my dad or am i gonna react against that and go for something a bit more friendly

and touchy-feely i sort of ping pong between the two you do in the early years you have moments where you're like, actually, but this, they've got to learn what's acceptable and that's not acceptable. So go and stand in that dark room. And I don't care if you're crying and you know, then you feel bad and you're like, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, this is, I'm a bad parent.

So then you're like, okay, come out here. I love you. I'm going to ignore that bad thing you did. It's not the end of the world. And then you think this isn't helpful either because i'm not giving them any boundaries they do need to totally know like what's acceptable and what's not to some degree you know yeah

absolutely but i think it's all about an open dialogue all of the time yeah so often i lose my shit with my kids and i shout and you know i it's not productive. But it's about then, you know, saying afterwards, I'm really sorry. Right. I completely lost my patience. You made yourself look weak there, Sean. No, not at all. But also, I don't believe in this United Front bullshit either. Yeah.

We often think different things as parents. And I think to see a bit of conflict, which is resolved and doesn't go to a ridiculous place, you know, where it's constructive is really important to see. Have you heard about epigenetics? Not really. Epigenetics is really interesting because obviously we pass down genes and people express those genes. But the more that you express a certain type of behavior or a certain gene in your life the more likely it will be to get passed down and expressed okay so it's not just about your genetic makeup it's also about how you express your genes through your life so if you allow yourself to be you know

constantly stressed eric you know and maybe that's something within your gene pool that's that's already there but if you sort of let that continue and get quite loud the best way is expressed to me as as a volume dial yep then it is more likely to express louder in the next generation yeah that makes sense yeah but i really like that because it also gives you more of a sense of responsibility about how you compose yourself in terms of your next of kin as well. Which I find really interesting. I was talking to someone the other day as well about the feeling of just being a hypocrite sometimes when you're trying to protect them from certain things and talk about what they should be doing or whatever. And you just feel so nakedly hypocritical when it in so

many ways you haven't done those things in your life you know and yet here you are saying oh no no you should do this and you should do that but actually my friend was saying it's not really about being hypocritical if you're a parent you still have a responsibility to do what you think is right and to do what you think is in their best interest. You can't be a 100% shiny example. No, of course. However, expectations are really difficult. Yeah. I mean, I'm talking about more obvious things.

I mean, no disrespect to my mum, who's great and was a wonderful mum in lots of ways, very loving, still a lovely person. Hi, mum. She doesn't listen to this. She doesn't know what a podcast is. But I wish she had given me a little more guidance on the eating front, for example. You know, she was just like, have some more French fancies.

Every time we ran out of French fancies, there were more French fancies. And she was either not noticing that I was just gobbling them all or not caring or just thought oh he likes French fancies I'll get some more of them so many people that's their way of showing love listen I'm not saying she was doing it maliciously and I was glad at the time because I do love French but on the other hand it was just I don't I wish i i sort of wish that i'd grown up in an environment where we were just eating more healthily as a matter of course yeah yeah but then i think that's also for each successive generation to figure out yeah because they didn't know i grew up on nothing but chicken that you put in the microwave sounds nice and microchips. It was hanging. You know, I'd have vegetables once a week

down my nana's at Sunday lunch. And they were basically stew by the time she'd finished cooking them. Yeah. At least you discovered healthy eating now. You know the choice of that. There's still a lot of French fancies in my life. Yeah.

There's still a lot of French fancies in my life. Yeah. Wait, this is an advert for Squarespace. Every time I visit your website, I see success. Yes, success. The way that you look at the world makes the world want to say yes. It looks very professional. I love browsing your videos and pics and I don't want to stop. And I'd like to access your members area and spend in your shop.

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Yes. Continue. continue. Hey, welcome back, podcats. That was Charlotte Church. I'm very grateful to Charlotte for her time. And as you may be able to hear, I am currently in my nutty room slash recording booth. And the reason for that is that I recorded my outro yesterday, which you will hear shortly. But afterwards, I realized that I'd forgotten to thank the venue that allowed us to record our conversation there. And the name of that venue is Two North Down, a comedy club in King's Cross. Just a few minutes walk from King's Cross Station. King's Cross, just a few minutes walk from King's Cross station. And it's a terrific small comedy club and space for hire where I've done several very enjoyable work in progress shows over the

years. Actually, it used to be called the Invisible Dot when it was under different management. And so I did a lot of shows there. That's where I first met Tash Dimitriou and Pierre Novelli. And there's always cool up and comers there cool young people as well as older grayer people like myself and more established comedians and Stuart Lee did warm-ups there at some point and anyway they get some pretty big names in there so check out their website I've posted a link in the description of this podcast as well as links to one or two things that myself and charlotte talked about so thanks a lot to all the folks at two north down much appreciated now back to my scintillating outro link recorded yesterday by the way the reason i'm not just recording

another one outside today is that it's um there's a hurricane happening as as far as I can tell. Or at least it's getting ready to go full hurricane. So I'm just skulking in my booth. Here we go. Oh, there's Technobird. Hello, Rosie. What are you doing? Ah, she's covered in goose grass Come here dopey

Let me get that off you Oh no You're covered in bobbles mate Steer clear of bobbles That's what I told Joan Byers to steer clear of bubbles. That's what I told Joan Byers. She ignored me. Shall we head back?

Come on. I saw a story on the BBC News website this morning, which I think might be one of the most boring, inconsequential stories that I've ever seen being passed off as news. It's called Tourists' Lucky Guess Cracks Safe Code on First Try. You're welcome to switch off now, by the way, but this is just if you want to get to sleep uh this might be nice for you although you'll get woken up by like and subscribe at the end so just warning you a canadian man unlocked a safe that had sat unopened in a small museum for decades cracking the code on his first try with a lucky guess all right so that's mildly impressive and interesting,

but it's downhill from there. Stephen Mills was visiting the Vermilion Heritage Museum with his family when he had a go at opening the iron box for a laugh. The museum in the province of Alberta had previously tried numerous times to unlock the old safe, to no avail. Numerous times! The safe had not been opened since the late 1970s. Wow, that was 40 years ago! The museum, housed in an old brick school building, hosts a collection on the history of Vermillion, a town of just over 4,000

people. Mr Mills, from Fort McMurray, Alberta, was visiting Vermillion with his extended family during a long weekend in May. Says Mr Mills, when we go camping every summer, we've come to learn that every small town, no matter where you go, has something to offer, he told the BBC. OK, this is news. So the family brought the children to see the museum and was given a tour by volunteer Tom Kibblewhite. Tom Kibblewhite. One of the exhibits was a safe that had originally been in the town's Brunswick Hotel, which had opened in 1906. The safe itself is believed to have been bought in 1907. That's when the safe was bought, over a hundred years ago. It's a hundred-year-old safe. Can you imagine? It was donated to the museum in the early 1990s after the hotel changed ownership and was renovated. They don't go into it, but imagine what the renovations

included. There could have been painting, a little bit of hammering, cornice work. I don't know. Mr Mills said when they were shown the safe, the whole family was, quote, intrigued. BBC News. So how did he do it? Right, now we're getting to the exciting part. How did he open the safe on his first try? Says Mr Mills. I said to Mr Kibblewhite, that's a crazy time capsule. You don't even know what's in it. He noticed the dial numbers ran from zero to 60 and decided to try 20, 40, 60. I tried the handle and it went, he said. I could tell it wasn't open for a long time because some dust fell out from the locking mechanism. Mr Kibblewhite told the BBC it was a thrill when he turned and saw the door swing open. So what was in the safe?

It contained an old pay sheet and part of a restaurant order pad dating from the late 1970s. The pad included receipts for a mushroom burger for $1.50 in Canadian money, brackets $1.12 in US dollars or 59 British pence. They have no value really, but they are of great interest to us. It gives us a little idea of what the places were like in 1977 and 1978, said Mr Kibblewhite. Yes, that's an exciting insight into that long-forgotten period of history, when it turns out people sometimes had mushroom burgers and they were so much cheaper than they are now. But the article doesn't finish there. No, the next section is called What are the chances? The odds of Mr Mills correctly guessing the combination are pretty long, says the University of Toronto's Geoffrey Rosenthal, author of Knock on Wood, Luck, Chance and the Meaning of Everything.

He calculated the chance of correctly guessing the combination on one try as 1 in 216,000. His calculation assumed the safe numbers actually ran from 1 to 60. But he noted that some combination locks allow for wiggle room, and if this one had a three-digit leeway, Mr Rosenthal put the chances at 1 in 8,000, which is still, says Mr Rosenthal, a small chance. The fact that the combination was in a specific pattern and did not appear to be a random combination of numbers could also factor in the calculation of the odds, he added, making the chance of getting it right the first time bigger, but still small. That's where it ends. I didn't even read the whole article, by the way. Okay. Nearly home now.

Thanks very much indeed to Annika Meissen for her conversation edit work on this episode. Much appreciated, Annika. And thanks as ever to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for his production support. Thanks to ACAST. And until the next time, please remember, I love you. Bye! Bye. Thank you.